253: Clarity On Values and Purpose with Megan Dalla-Camina

Foreign.

Dallicamina welcome to her Empire Builder show.

Hi. I'm so happy to be here. Very excited for our conversation.

I know. I am excited to, to have you on here. I have followed along for years and years. So this is very exciting. I got your email, you know, as part of your book promotion and was like, oh my gosh, yes. Which are my favorite emails to get when people are like, yes, know. I was thinking of coming on your show. Like, would you be keen? I'm like, would I be keen? They're the best ones. So welcome. Okay, so let's get straight into it. So you've had a very impressive career spanning over the last two decades with corporate giants like IBM and GE and PwC. What lessons did you learn from those experiences with the mass companies that you believe are essential for women leading small businesses today?

Oh, that's a good question. Thanks. Yeah. So I spent nearly 20 years in, in corporate, so I've been in my own business for 11 and I did 18 years in corporate. So a long time I've been working. I'm very old.

I said that to someone yesterday. Like this year I'm celebrating my 20th year since I started my business and they were like, what? How old are you? Yeah, I'm like, I know. And it's like we've been married 20 years. Next year my kids are getting ready to finish high school and I'm like, all it does is make me feel like older than I feel.

Oh, that's so interesting because I, I talk about this a lot because we're. I'm doing a lot of work going into midlife. Sorry, I will answer your question, but you just got to go with go.

Yeah. I love the digression.

And like these years, like 40, I'm in my 50s, so 40s, but the 50s, like these are the best years. Like, I want women to get so excited about midlife.

Yeah.

Because this is where for so many women the power. Yeah.

Do you know I hear that from like woman after woman after woman in going every decade just gets better and better. And I was talking to like someone the other day who was in their mid-20s and they were like, you know, I'm just worried about everything and worrying about so many things that I'm like, oh, none of that will matter to you soon. Like you will let all of that go. It's such a blessing. It's beautiful.

Beautiful. And like I talked to my 30 year old EA. She's like, oh. All I hear from everyone is that it sucks getting older. And I'M like, no, no, no, let's just change that patriarchal bullshit. Yeah, these are the best years. So anyway, back to your question. What did I learn? Oh look, it's such a good question. The first thing that I would say is like, get really clear on what you want. And by that I mean where for. So for business owners that I learned when I was in corporate, that clarity around who you are, what your values are, what your purpose is, like for the. I always ask the question for the sake of what? Like for the sake of what are you doing the things for the sake of what do you have an offering? For the sake of what do you even have your business in the first place?

That's something I think we forget a lot is why we started in the first place.

We do. And we get so busy in our businesses, in the doing and the running and the treadmill and the hustle that we forget why am I even here? And I just came off our leadership team meeting and I said to my team like, I want you all just to be really hooked into the impact that we're making because it's so easy to get lost in the 500,000 projects. Yes, we forget and then we get an email that says, you changed my life and we got to stay connected to the why of why we're doing it. So I think that's really important. The other thing that I would say is like, you have to look after yourself. You have to look after yourself. And it's something else that as business owners happens in corporate, of course, all the time for business owners that we're just always in our business, it never seems to end. Where's the self care? Where are the boundaries? Where are your non negotiables around how you take care of yourself? Where's your time for creativity, spirituality, like whatever it is that renews you? Keeping in mind that resilience is not about endurance, it's about, it's about renewal. So what does that renewal look like for you throughout your days, your weeks, your quarters, your year and yeah, so let's start with those two things. I think that that clarity and the taking care of yourself for business owners is exceptionally important.

I love that. It's something too that I think is so much easier said than done.

Yes.

Like there's like I had Covid a couple weeks ago and it's something that every time I get there, I very, very rarely get sick because I do know that as a business owner I take very good care of myself because I know that like I'm behind so many things that if I do bow out, it's like many other things can fall straight after it. So I do like prioritize my health core quite a lot. A lot more now than I used to 10 years ago because I'm not as bouncy as what I was then. But I do think like when I talk to business owners and they're like, well, you know, that's all well and good if I want to take a day off here or a day off there and do that. But I talk to a lot of business owners that go, I can't take like a four week vacation anymore. And I will constantly say like, of course you can. Here's all the examples of people that have done that and been fine. But what do you say when women say that to you? Because you'd get it too, right.

All the time. And what I say is you don't need to take a four week vacation. Right. Like for me it's always about this is what I coach. And I coach thousands and thousands of women every year. And what I'm always saying at the, at the fundamental premise of it is what are you doing today? Where's the 10 minutes? Right. You don't need four. If you can take four weeks like hallelujah, go, go do that. But what we have to learn as women is the continual renewal that we need in our days and that continual restoration. That's what sets up our well being. It's not the four week vacation.

Yeah.

So where are the daily micro habits and the micro moments that are non negotiable for you? You know, so for me it's my morning practice, it's my evening practice. Sometimes that's an hour and a half, sometimes it's 10 minutes. Yeah. You know, it's the having the lunch. Where's the healthy meal?

Yeah.

What are you doing at the end of the day to wind down? How's your sleep? These fundamental things that happen every day.

Yeah.

Not just the big moments where you get to get away.

Totally. I would totally agree. One of the things I implemented at the start of the year because I wasn't getting enough steps in my day, it was, I had all these health things that I've been working on like different levers for the last few years. And I'm going, I just can't get the steps up. Like I work from home. There's no incidental exercise in my day. Like I just, I have to be very purposeful for it and for a lot of it. And you know, people will judge me for this. And that is fine because I know people will also resonate with it. But I found it a waste of time to go if I'm just going to go walk for an hour and a half. Like there's so many other things I could be doing with that time. And I found it really difficult to take that time out for myself. So what I did at the start of the year, I bought a treadmill. And every 90 minutes an alarm goes off on my phone and I walk on the treadmill for 10 minutes. So when you said like the 10 minutes, I'm like 10 minutes goes by like that, it feels like nothing. And I have tripled my amount of daily steps and I'm trying to add like a thousand average every month to it and it's just like it's. I don't think I've ever done something that's been such a significant habit change that snowballed into so many other different things.

Yes.

Yeah.

We underestimate the power of, of a ten minute habit.

Yeah.

Now we think, oh, that's not going to make a difference. But if you, if you did that, what you're doing, or you insert a 10 minute meditation habit every day, it will change your life. Like there's no question.

I think if you fix your sleep.

And get that extra 30 minutes of sleep that will change your well being. Yes. So yeah, we got to focus on the small things and appreciate the small things and ritualize them whilst also thinking about, okay, well, where's the vacation time?

Yes. Yeah, totally. I would like both. I want this and that.

Yes, of course. Let's have all the things. Right.

Yeah, yeah, totally.

But if, but if you could only choose one. It's the things you do every day, Right. The things that you do sometimes that matter the most.

Yes. And what I find is you don't want to be limping into the vacation either in like such an exhausted state.

Which is what most people do. You know, we. To the vacation. We limp to the vacation. We get on vacation. What happens on day one? We get sick.

Yeah, yeah.

Because we've just spent 12 months and then the last four weeks hustling like crazy people to get to go on holiday and then we spend the first four days in bed. Yeah, yeah. We have continually renew.

Yeah.

Okay.

So like I said before, I have followed you for a long time. We've never actually met or spoken though. But back in like I want to say 2015 ish. I had your website printed out on my mood board when I was Creating my personal brand site.

Nice.

It just looked, it looked classy as fuck. Like it was.

I love that.

Beautiful. I was trying to find a photo of it so that I could share it, but I couldn't because, you know, you have a lot of photos of your office in the background. I was like, that'd be hilarious if I send that to her. But I couldn't find a photo. Anyway, it was there. And you've evolved a lot over the time as, as we all do now. As the founder and CEO of Women Rising, what inspired you to make the leap into this current evolution that you're running?

Yes, I love that. I just love that. That's so inspiring because it like you never know who's watching and you never know the impact that that's going to have on their journey and their purpose and, you know, that work. So thank you for sharing that with me. That's made me smile so big. So, like, it is an evolution. You know, I had an 18 year career, like a long career, and then 11 years of my own business. And when I started my business, it was, you know, came out of a big job in corporate, high profile, doing a lot of. I was head of strategy at IBM, but I was also doing a lot of work around women. So I knew, okay, this is the path, coaching, speaking, all of the things, and then just watched that evolve. Where was I of my service? Where was their revenue? Yeah, how would I sustain that? And then three and a half years ago, I built the Women Rising model, which is the journey map for the program that, that we teach at the heart of Women Rising. And it felt to me like this is the culmination of 20 years of my work, of all of my master's degrees and all of the coaching and the corporate experience, because it's mostly professional women that we, you know, that I teach. So yeah, I thought this is just going to be a program, you know, this will be the Women Rising program and it'll be great. It's an evolution of so much of my other work and it just exploded. And then the brand, I mean I built, personally built the first website for Women Rising and what we have now is an iteration. Our brand designer made it, you know, what it is today.

Y.

But I thought this, this will, this will be a great program. We'll see what happens with it. And it's just, yeah, like we're scale up phase now, not startup phase for, for the Women Rising company. We're doing male allies work and that program, we've got advanced training for Coaches and leaders. So it's this, this beautiful evolution.

Yeah.

And that point that I think all of us dream about as business as, as on. As entrepreneurs of when you get that the right offering at the right time in the right package, in the right moment in the zeitgeist, with the right support around it for it to, for it to go. You know, I think it was also.

A good time in the market. Like her Empire Builder, the program that I run started exactly four years ago. So very similar time to when you launched Women Rising. And it. I also like totally resonate with. I'd done so many different things and built and sold four different businesses and, and so many vastly different things. And it's like this program uses every skill I have ever acquired and takes everything together and it, it just click so beautifully. And I think there was a part of that and you know, putting us into Covid that really like made us have some self discovery there as well. But it's also really great time in the market to be launching something.

Yeah. And like there's something to be said for that. Right. There's something to be said that you can and, and different things, like similar things or different things in a different package as well. I think this, there's real resonance in that for, for business owners and coming. I. We were the same. I did my pilot program for Women Rising pre covered it was a great success. Went into our first decent sized round covert hit and you know, we target organizations and women, you know, excuse me, sorry. Women in organizations and corporate roles. And it was just this perfect moment.

Yeah.

Where no one could do face to face development. Everyone was like, oh well let's try this online thing. And off we went.

Yeah, that's fantastic. And so with your. You've got your upcoming book coming out very soon which is also called Women Rising out in August, I believe.

Yeah, yeah. August 28th.

Nice, nice, nice. I'm like what date, what day are we coming out? We're coming out end of June, so. So we'll be able to pre order which will be great. We'll link to that down in the show notes. But what are the, what are the central themes of the book?

Yes. So this book is all about the forces outside of us that hold women back and the stories that we tell inside of us that keep us stuck and then the tools to help us rise.

Yeah, nice.

Yeah. Thank you. They're the three parts of the book. So in, in the first part I'm looking at what I call the paradoxes of power. What are the forces around the patriarchy and power structures that is like this invisible force field around women, particularly working women, that hold us back, that we're really not. Most women are not aware that that exists. And one of the reasons it's so important to have that awareness around these paradoxes of power, and they're things like the motherhood paradox. You know, we expect women to be great mothers, but work like they don't have children. It's one of the paradoxes. And there's, you know, there's five others. Is that what I see in our community so often is like, we think it's just us, particularly for professional women. You know, we're in patriarchal structures. We think that the reason we're not succeeding is because there's something wrong with us. When, in fact, so much of it, of course, is about, you know, the systemic nature that holds women back. So that's the first part. The second part is all around the inner critic. And I dive into and have created these archetypes of the inner critic, which is very cool. Things like the perfectionist, the people pleaser, the good girl, the overachiever. And what does that actually mean from an inner critic perspective? And the stories that you tell yourself that hold you back from taking the action that you want to take, and how do you move through that? And then part three is six. Six tools for Rising that we can use to get really practical and intentional about how we go and create what we want to create.

That sounds like an absolutely fabulous book. I can't wait to read it, because I want to ask you about, like, something that I encountered last week, and because I think that, you know, it would be relatable to a lot of people. And I'd love to know, like, what you're seeing through the time changing with that. So I live a very insular life. I live on a farm north of Sydney. I don't leave very often, and when I do, it's usually with other women. And so I run retreats for women conferences for it, like, do a lot of things with women. Very rarely am I in public, like, dealing with new people. It's just, you know, I just don't get out as much as what I probably should. And I used to think that I just wasn't good enough, wasn't smart enough. Different thing. And then I've come to, as I've gotten older, really understand that men have a certain level of assumed awesomeness that women don't kind of walk into a room with. And for a while, I thought that was in my head and I was making that.

So.

But I get examples of it all the time. And what happens. Last week we went to a conference, my husband and I, because we wanted to learn about a new thing together. I have the business. My husband kind of dabbles a little bit at the side. So we came, went together, we were there. A very tall, very dapper looking man comes up to us. Hi, how you going? Shakes my husband's hand, introduces himself, did not even look at me. Now I'm very short. I'm five foot one. And both of them were six foot, six foot one. And so I understand that that's a thing as well. But a couple of times, a little bit of a lull into the conversation, I went, hi, I'm Tina. And looked down at me and just like smiled, teeth like, mouth closed smile and a nod like, yeah, nice to see you. Anyway, he was asking my husband about all this tech. My husband even said, oh, that's Tina's department. Or, Tina knows more about that dude ignored me the whole time. Then at the end of the conference, the person on the stage called me out and was like, tina towers here and give us a wave, tater. And the dude comes up at the end because he'd come and spoken to my husband about three times, came up to me and went, I'm so sorry, I didn't know who you are. I was and introduced himself and went to shake my hand. I'm like, you dick. It happens all the time. And I was so disheartened when I left because I was going, you know, if I had done a program, and this was one of the reasons I did her Empire Builder was when I first started in coaching, I would get a lot of women and a lot of men would come for private coaching, but never anything in the open. And I thought that was a really interesting part of it. So I thought, well, if women are coming anyway, I'll just double down on women and. And try and make women kick the ass, being able to do that. But with that, are you seeing that get less in our industry? Are you still seeing it just as much? And how do we deal with that?

So this is. This is the patriarchy, right? Let's be very clear.

Alive and well.

It's. It is alive and well. And that this is the invisible layer. And then you have an experience like that. And what most women do in an experience like that think, oh, I'm not good enough. Do I deserve to be here? All of the inner critic stuff comes up right because of the way that we've been treated by somebody else. And it is systemic. And there are, like, when we look at work for women and it's whether you're an entrepreneur or whether you are in a, you know, a corporate structure, there are specific types of gender bias that impact women wherever we go. And whether it's being dismissed, ignored, talked over in a meeting, whether it's a founder going to pitch for funding and she gets completely, you know, ignored, dismissed, all of the same things, which happens all the time. What are we at, like, 3% of funding goes to female startups. It's just such a disgusting number. 3%. And I think we just got to 3%. This is all part of the system that we live and operate in.

Yeah.

What I'm on a mission to do is help women really understand that, you know, part of this book and this work is this awakening of. It's not. This isn't about me. This is about the forces outside of me, and I need to be educated and aware as to what they are so I can see them when they happen, and then I can go and do my own inner work to really claim my power.

Yeah.

So, yeah. Am I seeing it get better? Like, it's such a nuanced question. I'll tell you what I am seeing. I am seeing that the conversation we're having in the Zeitgeist is shifting. And, like, if you just look at, you know, pop culture and movies and, you know, Barbie and the. I don't know if you've seen the Girls on the Bus series, that's just come out incredible. If you really want to get into, you know, into this discussion, the Zeitgeist is shifting, which is a hugely positive sign because it means there's more people waking up to the fact that there is this thing called the patriarchy. It still exists and we have to rise up to.

Totally, totally. Yeah. Just makes me think if I had a penis, I wonder how much more successful I would be.

Well, look at the data a lot.

Yeah, yeah. Which is very enraging, which is why.

We need to wake up to that fact. Right. As a collective, not just as individual women together.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love that. Okay, so, well, I've kind of got my next question here, which is kind of similar to what we've gone into already, because you've done so much extensive research in gender diversity and women's leadership. What do you say? Are the common women, common barriers that women are facing, and what advice do you give them in overcoming them? So I. You've just said, like, the first is being aware of it so that you can see it and understand it and process it and get into your power with it. But I mean, is it our job? Like, with the example I just shared, should I have said, hey, dude, like, I'm down here too? Like, it's. It's just easier to ignore.

Yeah. Look, I think we all have our different path of navigating through. You know, the first piece is be aware of the environment that you are operating in. So if you're a business owner and you are, you know, seeing things with clients or potential partners or you're going for funding and what's your strategy like? Be aware of the landscape. If you are going to get, you know, outside capital, what are you walking into? How do you deal with that? Who's done it before? What, you know, what's going to work for you? So much information out there around that. Connect with people, get a mentor, get a coach. Yeah. And then it's about what is my work to do. So there's fixing the system over here, and then there's empowering ourselves. Two parts of the equation of what it's going to take to change, to create changes. And the piece around empowering ourselves is around the clarity. What do I want my life to look like? What's my purpose? What do I want my business to look like? Why am I here? What is my work to do?

Which are all very big questions that you've just said.

They're very big questions. But you can start small. Right. You don't need to. You know, I always try and demystify purpose for women because we think that we get struck by our purpose, you know, where the research tells us that we actually build our purpose. And what I talk about is we build our purpose by following the breadcrumbs. Like, what's the next. You don't need to know your entire purpose for your entire life. It's too big or your business. What you need to know is, what's the next breadcrumb on my path? What's the next thing that's going to energize me, excite me? What am I curious about right now? Go pick up that one thing. Do that. Then what's the next breadcrumb? And I find when we can do that in our businesses, it becomes much more tangible and actionable.

Yeah, yeah.

Versus I'm gonna wait until I can see the whole playing field. You're probably never going to see it.

So we do, I think, like I was. I was someone in my 20s that I had like five year plans, 10 year plans, and then I'd break them down into one year plans and 90 day action steps. Like I was, you know, a little insane in terms of the way that I did that. But what I've learned as I've gotten older through each of the decades is going, you don't know what beautiful things lie awake. And. And if I stuck too tight to my plan, I missed like all of the incredibleness that was going to unfold. So I hold everything a lot looser now. And, and exactly like you say, like, I think that's beautiful advice in going, like, follow your curiosity, follow your. And then, then the purpose does unfold. Which is like the best feeling ever when you get that.

Yes. And it like we don't just have one purpose, you know, it's not just one thing and it will change, you know, so like, hold it lightly. I always like to have a directional vision, but be open to the magic of the moments and the opportunities and like, where is this going to go? Yeah, I find that that's a much more graceful way to navigate.

Yeah, I love that path.

Yeah.

So you're super academic, which I find really interesting because a lot of successful business people are not. You've got two master's degrees and I read that you're going back for your PhD as well.

Yeah, I'm just about to start.

My gosh. Okay, so I need to ask you about that. What role does academic research play in. In your approach to leadership and empowerment and any surprising findings from the research that you've done and why you're going again.

Yeah. So like, people think I'm. People who don't know me think I'm nuts. People who know me go, of course. Right. So it's. So, it's so interesting. I'm a learner. Like, I'm like, if you go and do your Via Strengths, your Values in Action Strength survey, which talks about, you know, what you like doing, what you're good at, what, what are you, when are you at your best? One of my top strengths is love of learning. It's always. It wasn't who I was at school. I hated school. I tried to get kicked out of school. Just was a rebel, you know, in high school. Yeah, we could do a whole podcast on that. But then when I found the thing that I loved, I've always been, give me more of that, but with a purpose and intention to it. So, you know, I've done two master's degrees, another sort of nyu, you know, it's called the inner mba. So it's not a master's degree, but it's a program. But I've also done the holistic side, so I've done 10 years of yoga, different teacher training, meditation, teacher training. I'm very much into the science of Vedanta and, and the Veda in India. So there's a lot of, there's the other side of it as well. For me, the way that I teach in my work is this, I call it this blend of science, spirit and experience. So I have the underpinning. So if you look at the women Rising journey, it's all underpinned by science and research. But you wouldn't know that being a participant. But it just, it's a fund, you know, it's a fundamental thread in what I teach. In that aspect of my work, I think it's important to look at the research, look at the data, look at the science, look at the practices that are proven and tested, and then weave that through this holistic, you know, sort of spirit based and experience based work. And that's one of the reasons why the model works so well.

It also makes you very unique as well that you like both those sides.

Yeah, yes, yes. And it is very particularly in my space that I'm in around professional women. It is absolutely a key differentiator because there's very few people who have that blend.

Yeah, totally.

So that as a business owner, of course is, as an entrepreneur is a beautiful thing. Yeah. And it's what lights me up. Like, I love, I'm a researcher. Like I love getting into the data, but then I love overlaying that with, well, what is ancient? What are ancient teachings? Tell us about this. What do I see from the 10,000 women I've coached in the last three years? Yeah, how do we weave all of that into one beautiful, unique offering?

So what's the curiosity thread that's got you into wanting to do your PhD? Because it's not a small undertaking, especially when you're building a business, launching a book. Like you've got enough on your plate that there's gotta be something there that you wanna find.

Yeah, it's really interesting because I started my Ph.D. 10 years ago. Was it 10 years ago? Yeah, probably eight to 10 years ago. I started a Ph.D. program because I'd done my two master's degrees. I'm like, well, this is the next step. And then I stopped. And if anyone's read Simple, Soulful, Sacred, there's a chapter in there that you know, the PhD that I didn't need because it was the wrong PhD at the wrong time in my business. The wrong. Everything was wrong about it. And my. It was in the US My supervisor at the time said to me, megan, you don't need this. You don't need this. You're already this global thought leader, like you just want to write books. And I did. And I've written three books since I started that PhD. But now the PhD program that I'm doing is like a full circle moment because it's a PhD in the US on women's spirituality and leadership. It's like a very unique, highly coveted program, and it brings everything that I do together. So it brings all of the women's spirituality into it, all of the, the, the, the teachings, and it also brings in the, the aspect of, of leadership and creating social change. So for me right now, it's one of the things I'm most excited about. And I think you get that hit when you know that it's right. Like, it took me five months to get accepted. It's really hard to get into. They only take 15 people. But I just. My grit, you know, of just going through that program, and I just. The classes are 3am, my time. None of it matters. Right. None of it matters because I'm so lit up that this is the next breadcrumb for me, and I'm so excited about it.

There's nothing that could get me up for a 3am class.

For me either. Right. Like, sleep is my goal to everything, but that's how important this is.

How long, how long will it take you to complete?

Look, they say four to seven years. I tend to do things fast. I'm a. Yeah. Like, you know, I, I like to, you know, get things done. So I'm estimating five.

Wow.

Yeah.

Such a commitment. Good on you.

Yeah. But I think we get. I think we get deterred by the commitment. It's like, oh, I want to write a book, but, oh, am I really going to give up a year of my life to, you know, to write a book? But we know that we really want to do it, but we're not willing to step into that.

Yeah.

It's the same with this. You know, it's. If you want to do it, time's going to pass anyway.

Yeah, totally. Yeah.

So who cares? Like, go do the thing you want to do. Yeah, go do it now. Yeah.

Yeah, completely. Okay. So you just mentioned writing a book and doing that, which before we hit record, you showed me like, like the Final typesetting of the big, big chunk of chunk of the books with all the post it notes and all the underlines and everything in there, which to me, when I had my books written, like that was one of the most exciting parts. It's like after that and it went off, it kind of felt like, like I, I'd almost done my job. Like, yes, you've got to market the bejesus out of it, but it's like you've given it all, you've got kind of thing and you've been working so hard when no one's watching to this point. And it's, it's such a momentous moment and achievement and, and I shared with you, like I think, the hardest personal development exercise I have ever done in my life. And you've done it four times. So do you love the writing process? Do you find it stressful? Because a lot of women that are listening to this, I know, have aspirations to write a book one day.

Yes. Look, I mean it's, it's no joke writing a book, right? Yeah, there's, there's books and then there's books, you know, like this is true.

This is true.

Yeah, there's little books and there's books. That's like a stream of consciousness, you know, writing exercise and then there's, you know, research based books and all. Like, there's books and then there's books, but the process is the same. You got to sit your ass in your chair and look at a blank screen and go, oh, what do I have to say? So I love writing a book. I'm already thinking about, okay, the next one, when am I going to start? Because I want to take time, you know, to do it can be stressful, super challenging. You have to be really disciplined, particularly running a business and writing a book. Like we're in scale up mode. Where in, you know, I'm. I won't even tell you. Like, there's so many pieces that, that go on in my business, which I'm sure there are in, in yours and everyone's listening. But the, those moments when you just go, yes. Like I've just articulated a concept that I've been thinking about for 10 years and I've written it down and I've sent it to someone and they've gone, oh my God. Like there is just for me, there's nothing better than that. Yeah. So I love the process of it. This was the hardest book that I've written, hands down. Because of the nature of it.

Yeah.

Because I've Been trying to articulate, certainly in the first part of the book, when I'm talking about power and patriarchy and the paradoxes, I've written about things in a way that I've been trying to figure out and articulate for 15 years. And all the research and all of the teaching that I do, all of the conversations that I have and just crafted in, hopefully in such a way that women are just gonna go, oh, my God, I could get it now.

Yeah.

You know, so that's. And it's research. There's, you know, there's. There's evidence that. That. That flows through it. So, yeah, it was challenging.

Yeah. And what does your process look like? Are you. Are you an organization all in, like, shut the rest of the world off and just do it all in one hit, or are you at, like, a couple hours a day for, like, how do you work it into your life?

Yeah, like, I didn't have the. I didn't have the luxury to go lock myself away. And for me, anyway, that's not my process. Like, my process isn't to carve out massive chunks of time and just go lock myself, you know, in a room. Although there certainly were times of that. But for me, it was structuring my calendar that I could have, okay, Monday, Saturday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday, Monday are book days. And it didn't mean that I wasn't doing other things, particularly on the Friday and the Monday. Like, I run a business, keep the business moving, but that those days were no meeting days and that there was structured writing time. Because Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, for my business is not months. Like, it's just coaching and meetings. And so I wouldn't expect myself to do anything on the book on those days, which I also think is important. But then those other days, that's when I had.

And so we've had, like, so many different pillars to your business and your life at the moment. What do your daily wellness habits look like? To not lose your mind with all of that?

Yes. One of my goals in life. Don't lose you.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's a. It's a lot, you know, like, there are big things that you're working on, and. And I love that. And so many of us are trying to do big things and. And thrive through the process.

Yeah. So I. I get up early. I cultivated myself to be a morning person, because what didn't used to be. So I would typically get up around 6, sometimes earlier, but mostly 6. 6:30 is a nice time for me. I will always do something for myself in the morning. So meditation, some yoga, go for a walk. If it's not freezing, I will swim in the ocean. But morning is my time and that is just non negotiable for me. So, yeah, so that's, that's my morning. And again, sometimes at 90 minutes, sometimes it's 10 minutes, but it's usually more than 10 minutes, so sometimes it's 30 minutes, shall we say? That's my, that's my morning routine. I always like to make sure that I've got the things that will fuel me in terms of food so that I've got the stuff for the healthy lunch so I'm not grabbing something. And then I have end of day rituals as well. So whether that's another meditation, I might do a class with my teacher in our group virtually around Korea. Yoga or, you know, mantra yantra work, all the things that, that we study, Bit of yoga, some light reading, tea, bedtime. So, you know, bed sleep is my absolute number one non negotiable.

Awesome. Okay, that's helpful because I'm like, how do you do all of the things that's helpful? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so my last question for you.

Is have the movement that we now have. No way. Right.

Which is always scary when you're cutting off something that's working.

Yes, yes. And I said I cut off everything else after we'd done that first round.

All in, baby.

Yeah, all in.

Yeah.

Focus, go, scale.

Yeah.

And we did. And we are.

Well done. Yeah, you, round of applause for that one because you're kicking ass. Like you, you're doing so well. I am so excited for Women Rising to come out in August. I'll be getting a copy and sharing it with everybody and reading it as soon as it comes out and shouting it from the rooftop because it's, you know, knowing you and, and your work and what you've done, like it's, it's going to be exceptional. So I'm really excited for you. Congratulations.

Thank you, thank you.

Thanks for coming on. Thanks.

Thanks for.