257: How to Use Video and AI To Transform Businesses with Deb Szabo

Foreign to her Empire Builder Show.

Thank you so much for having me, Tina.

Hey, I'm excited to have you here. I love, I am loving all of the member story series. It's so good getting everyone's backstory and, and even people I've known you for years now and going. Still, I get to uncover little bits that I haven't ever found out about you before.

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, so in a nutshell, tell us what you are currently doing. We were just talking about before we hit record, what an exciting time it is at the moment to be in our industry. But give us a rundown on what you're doing at the moment.

Yeah, so I am helping people use video and AI to get seen, build their brand and make more money, essentially, because, you know, we still need to be out there promoting what we do, and we've got two of the most incredible tools available to us to be able to do that. So I want to just help people navigate that because it can be, you know, a bit. A bit tough for some people who aren't tech savvy, you know.

Yeah, can be a bit tough for the tech savvy, but it's also, there's something about putting your face on video as well that can be really difficult for a lot of people.

Incredibly difficult. So it's not just about the tech. It's actually just getting people through that mindset of what it takes to show up and the importance of it. Because often, and you know, we're all guilty of this, is that when you're running your business, you're so busy just doing the things that marketing in general is the thing that gets pushed to the side.

Yeah.

And the most important part of being a course creator, the most important part.

And so for me, in my own business, I'm literally dedicating a whole day every week just to content creation.

Right. You're going to do amazing things with that.

Yeah.

So I think that that's the biggest thing with, with businesses is knowing how important it is to dedicate that time. And then it is about getting over ourselves of going, okay. Showing up on video is. Is hard if, I mean, I've been doing it for years and if my hair and makeup's not done, that's an easy excuse to go, I'll record tomorrow. Right. And so that's half the thing. Why, you know, I'm, you know, done my hair and makeup today for this, you know, recording, and I'm going to record my podcast afterwards, but if you go to my Instagram page often, you'll see me with a cap in my running gear because I want to give people permission that it's okay just to turn up as you are. And I feel that if we remove as many of those barriers, especially as women, especially older women as well, is that we. We've come from a generation where, like, if you, you know, my mum, for example, she like, never go out without a hair and makeup done.

And I still remember my grandma going, like, you can't go anywhere without your face on, Tina. Yeah, and I'm like, without my face on. And as, as you know, I don't do hair and makeup. So it's like, it's a different foreign thing. I mean, I was thinking of that, like, this is a really good point because I was thinking of it this morning because today I have a very full zoom call day. I've got like four podcast interviews masterclass, which is like my most important thing in the month in my schedule, like a lot of things. And I even set alarm early to get up to do my hair. I got a new Dyson Air wrap and I'm like, I'm going to become the woman that does her hair and looks presentable. I am old enough that I need to do this now. Anyway, the alarm went off and it was pouring with rain. And one of our kids is sick, so he hasn't gone to school, so he was still in bed. And my husband was like, I'm just going to lay in for a little bit. And I'm like, okay, so I can either get up and do my hair or lay there and hug my husband. I'm going to choose lay there and hug my husband. And then I still had a little bit of time left. And then I was like, okay, I can do the hair and then go straight to my desk to kick off the first session, or I can go to my desk and get on top of emails knowing that I can't look at them until tomorrow otherwise. So which choice? And I always choose the thing that is not my hair and makeup. And it's something I had to get comfortable with early because I knew I would repeatedly choose that choice. And it was also stopping me from showing up. And then I had to really accept, you know what, this is just how I am and this is how I look. And hopefully, I mean, I don't come on looking like a slob. I think that difference. But I think hopefully people will judge me for my ideas and my knowledge and not my face.

There's two points of that, too. With that, Tina, is that When I get up like today, if I'm going to be on camera I need high energy and I need to sustain that high energy.

Yeah.

So I think about what is it, what's going to make me feel good and bring the energy to me. Yeah. So I want to, you know, be on brand number one when I am going to be on camera because I know that I've got so much more opportunity to repurpose that content as well.

Yeah.

I know that when I get up and I do my hair and makeup, I don't mind looking at myself for the day if I have to endure.

That makes you feel.

Yeah, right.

Like the flick that's happening at the moment.

Yeah, yeah.

It's like therefore my mindset is going to be better and helps you confident to be more upfront. And that's why for me, whenever I, you know, in my like course in my membership, that's one of the things is how to turn up confidently and how to empower yourself to bring the energy. Because, because being on video, you know, like it sucks the life, you know, sucks more life out of you. And so therefore you have to amp up your energy. So when we present I stand, I stand up. You know, when I do my master classes I stand up and whenever I record I stand up and I'm not today I'm sitting down chatting. But, but generally speaking and these are the things of what, what will help me show up and share what I do because it's more important do you.

Know I sit down because I have to calm myself.

Yes.

If I stand up I get too over excited and I think it's the ADD thing and I end up like going off anything that I actually for my month, like I make sure I sit down and calm down, take a breath Tina, relax. Like isn't that funny the different things. But this is your point is going do what works for you and that's.

What we have to find 100 and it's hard like, and that's why I say like for me yesterday I was like I need to record a live because I've got to, you know, and, and then I was like no, I'll just put this up. So even when you have got, you know, all the tools and you are confident in showing up, we still struggle as in me going I'm going to press record today. So that's why having like I have routines that I know like record first thing in the morning, do a story first thing in the morning. I know that if I've got all my Tools around me in my studio that I've got a tripod that sits right here. So it's like a trigger that I come in, put my phone on there. And so therefore I don't have the excuse of. I don't. Can't find my mic, I can't find my gear.

Yeah.

Have my lights here. So have everything set up. And those are the things that will, I think, help people to just get past that thing of, you know, pressing record.

Yeah, definitely. Okay, so I want to talk a little bit more about your story because you went from full time employment into business not too long ago. In the scheme of things, how did that transition happen and how did you get the idea to go in and back yourself, go all in on it?

I've been, I've, you know, had businesses over the years. I love being self employed. It's just how my brain works, I guess, that entrepreneur brain. And you know, I've been a single mom and you know, it's like you got to pay the bills and all the things, but I just had this yearning desire to go back out and work for myself and, and out of that as well. It wasn't just about my lifestyle. It was because I knew that I had the ability to help so many more people than just one business. And it's funny because I was going back through my phone the other day and I found an old video from 2021 and it was me like literally doing a. I'm gonna help businesses. You know, you've gotta post video.

Have you posted it yet?

No.

Gotta post it.

I know, I, I do. Right? And yes, three years ago I must have been having a glass of wine one night and I was like, huh, this is my. So I already had it in my brain of like my pur was going to be this.

Yeah.

And, and so it took me that long to set up all the groundwork and I, but I just knew that I had to do this business and I wanted the freedom and the flexibility and that's why an online course really appealed to me as well.

Yeah.

And, and then when I started the foundations, I was like every night and every weekend I, I'd be learning kajabi. I'd get up at three in the morning to watch webinars in America, you know, to learn how to use the funnel and how funnel and how to create a landing page on kajabi. And so he's doing all these things and I've got a marketing background, so I've already got that advantage. But there was still so much to do, to set up.

And it's always changing as well. Like, it's always changing. And so one of the questions I wanted to ask you because you, You've got that marketing background and you're super into marketing, you're super into tech, but you've niched into video, of which, you know, we talk a lot about niching and the advantages and disadvantages in. In being able to do that. How come video and. And did abroad and you went in, or were you always like, I'm going to be the, like the best at video?

It's really an interesting question because I have been working in tourism and the wine industry for the better part of 20 years, and I thought I'd actually go down that track. And I really struggled with the two of where am I going to do this as a business or this? And I'm like, why I chose video is at the time I was still working full time and I thought that I was gonna. I could see a need for people in my industry, in the wine industry, of actually needing that using video badly or not at all.

Yeah.

And I knew that the business that I was working with, how much it catapulted the business, like it turned it around, completely backflipped the business to losing money, to making money. So I knew the power of it. And I thought that if I went out and helped those people in the industry that I could leverage and help them with all the tech and the video, because I just spent all that time learning it myself and I wanted to share the knowledge. And then what happened is I ended up finding this whole other community in business that actually needed the help, and they were the ones that were actually jumping on everything. So when I launched my course and when I launched my membership, it was everyone else in the world that actually wanted it.

Yeah. Yeah.

And it's only now, you know, a year and a half later, that I have people in the industry that will come up and go, oh, yeah, I've been seeing all your stuff. Oh yeah, I should do that. So it's almost like they're the laggards.

Yeah.

Taking it up.

Yeah.

So they need it, they recognize it, but there's just still sitting on the fence. And in the meantime, I've been able to help all these course creators, for example, this industries that are like, that's.

Exactly what I need.

Yeah, for sure.

And I guess from that using video, I think I've always, like, had this curiosity with a camera. Like at 16, I worked in Kodak, you know, like and so I recognize the power of being able to turn up. But when video, like as soon as I got a mobile phone with video, it was. That's like. If you look on my phone right now, I think I've got 19, 000 videos on my phone. Yeah, Amazing. I need to clean that up, right?

Yeah. That's going to take a long time.

Yeah, I know.

Yeah.

So that is my obsession, I guess, because I'm a visual person and I just know the impact about when we turn up face to face, it's so powerful, for sure. Connection one to one. But when we couldn't turn up face to face, when we actually leverage video, that was when you could talk to anyone, anywhere in the world, anytime you like. And it just still blows my mind that it's for free and people don't leverage it.

Yeah, yeah, for sure.

And so how has your offer kind of changed since you started? What does it look like now? Because I know that a lot of people, when they, when they first start, it's like, what do I put into. Did you put too much? Did you price it too high, too low? Like, how has that changed over the last couple of years?

What I did when I started, I first did a. So I. In my brain, it's like January, I kicked off last year and then I did webinar. I offered one to one coaching and purely experimental. I purely undercharged that. I just wanted the tick the box and get like the sale so I could.

I think there's a lot of merit in that too. Like you need people that get good results and come through and love it.

And it's really interesting because I gave people what they needed so I could give them. I gave people what they wanted so I could give them what they needed.

Yes. Yeah.

And that's kind of where I guess the first part of like, all right, you need to do some social media planning because that's where it all starts from. Right. And so then I offered that and then I offered and then I did a workshop the month later and that was about video essentials for social media, because that was where most people were using video. And then I launched twice last year and I adapted each time I launched my course.

Yeah.

And then I had to look at how I was getting branded as well. Because one of the things that I found is like, when I first started, because I'm a marketing strategist, like a really big picture business, like I look at. I can look at a business and I'm like that there, there and there, right But I was like getting branded as the Instagram girl and I'm like, okay, well what, what am I, what, what am I sharing to give that in business? Because I'm. Yeah, yeah, right. And then it was like. And then I was, and then I was getting branded as a videographer. Now I've studied that, I know that. But I didn't want to work as my day job as a videographer.

Yeah.

I wanted to empower other people and create content as well.

Yeah.

But I didn't want to wake up in the morning, go, here's my list of videography jobs.

Yeah.

So twice last year I had to look at my. How I was getting branded myself.

Yeah.

And then what I also found is when I launched my course is like once AI hit the ground, the first thing I did was incorporate that into the course. So I, and I presented it live as well over six weeks. So each week was a session that laid on each. And then I was like, okay, because it's live, I can modify it.

Yeah.

And then I found when I went to launch this year, I just kept coming up with a roadblock of going, I just don't feel aligned with this. And, and the reason was, is because there was so much more. And that's why this year I launched my membership. And so each month we layer on layer on layer and then there's a community and that support as well. Because it changes so quickly with tech.

Oh, it does.

Yes.

Ridiculously quickly. What's been your favorite, like, what's been your most mind blowing thing with AI so far?

Just everything it can do.

Yeah.

And I, and I use this as like, my son want an electric scooter on the weekend.

Yeah.

And he came in, he's like, and he's like me, when we want to know something, we go down a deep rabbit hole of research that hyper focus ability. And, and I went, all right, well, let's just ask Perplexity what it says. So I asked it to review it, rate it, give me the top ones. And his research was right. But I could, you know, save hours of research and consolidate it into just one thing.

Yeah.

It just blows my mind that like the capacity and capability of what it can do. And I'm not just talking about what you can type in and ask it to do. I'm talking about video editing as well. What used to take.

Oh yeah, hours and cost so much.

As well, cost so much. I can jump in now, create one hero video, repurpose it 15 different ways across all the different platforms in a Few hours.

Yeah.

What's your favorite tool to use to repurpose?

I love Perplexity AI. I think that is my most favorite thing. I use a pro version so it taps into chat and Jim and I Claude everything.

Yeah.

And I just love the comprehension of it as well. Like I've done the side by side test of asking Chat GPT this.

Yeah.

And then I put the same thing into Perplexity and Perplexity is next level. So I. I think that Perplexity is my most favorite.

Does that repurpose all your long form video content too?

So what I do is when I record, so I start with my video, so my long form video, which is my podcast, I then take that video and I put it. I edit in Premiere Pro.

Yeah.

And so what I do with that is I put into Premiere Pro I take the MP3 and then I take the transcription. I take the transcription, I put it into Perplexity. It will then give me my timestamp, my chapter, my show notes.

Yeah.

Then it'll give me my blog, my email, my captions.

Just cut down so much time in what it used to take us 30 reels.

Yeah.

Like everything is just from that one thing. And I also love text based editing as well because I find that from there, and I know there's a lot of. And I get asked this question all the time is what software should I use for getting the little snippets? And I know you do one recently with Opus, and I love Opus, I love Munch. But what I find is most of them all do snippets these days.

Yeah.

It's just about how much time do you want to spend getting that right snippet.

Yes, exactly.

So for me, I would rather like go in, take my snippet that I want and download that and I can still get 10 videos of a 20 minute, you know, video out of that.

Yeah.

Nice. And what are your thoughts on.

The.

Fake AI videos of yourself, our clones? Because I know this is something that I shared a couple of weeks ago and we had such mixed results and I was like, what are your views on it?

So here's my thing. Right?

Yeah.

That I love tech and I will experiment with everything. And I do. It's costly and expensive and time wasting. Right. Right.

When we did our budget the other day, and I was like, I think I spent an extra $800 on software subscriptions last month just because I'm buying everything and playing with every which. Which is our job also.

Yes. Yeah, absolutely. So that's why I'm happy to do that. But then I had to do the same thing. I had to go through and cancel what I don't need as well. And. But I think with being able to use the AI. So TikTok have got this symphony editor at the moment. I don't know whether you've looked in the back of.

No, I don't go on TikTok at all.

So they have this incredible machine essentially to help you with all of your content. Okay. And they're all about the AI person. And it's a really interesting thing because it's quite controversial with a lot of big creators as well. I'm a bystander in the way of. I'm just observing everyone's opinion and watching everyone, how they're reacting with it.

Yeah.

I want to experiment. I am actually experimenting with stuff at the moment to compare me turning up and someone else turning up.

Yeah.

I always come back to authentically you.

I think so too.

For me, it. And I know and I see this with a lot of faceless marketing.

Yeah.

So, yeah. And this is one of my things. Right. I'm always observing what people do and I'll trial it and I'll call BS if it's bs. Right. And when I see people online going, you can, you know, get millions of followers if you just do these faceless videos. And I'm. And. And I'm like. But you're. All of your videos are all of you telling everyone to do faceless videos. Right.

Yeah.

At the end of the day, there's going to be times like you did one with the different language.

Yeah.

So if you want to attract an overseas market and you want to do a sales video on your website.

Yeah.

Wow. That's so powerful.

Yes.

That is so powerful that you can do that. And you know, you're going to Europe and you're, you know, a business over in Italy. How cool is it if the owner could actually do a video, come to my business. But it's them, but it's not. And it's in their language. That's cool. I love the idea of that where I'm probably full circle around with. It's all about human connection. And that's the reason why at the moment I'm doing all these things out in the road. Because I have a personal brand. There's business brand and personal brand. Right. And personal brand will always come back to. There's nothing more powerful than showing up face to face. The next best thing is video. And with that video, it has to be You.

Yeah, I agree, too. I had a play with them and I will be creating, like, different avatars that are. That are pure fake avatars that we are very upfront about. But there's different things in going. Like, I think it's a trust issue when it's not you, but it looks like you and it sounds like you. Like, there's something about it that. Yeah, I just. Just sat wrong. But I had to play with it in order to go, yeah, I don't think this is. This is. I'm not gonna love this.

So it's consistency and relevance. Right? So consistency is that if I'm showing up in Instagram stories every other day with my face and it's like, well, that's really dead. Right? So when I actually turn up and go, hey, I've got this to sell. Would you like to buy it? Hopefully we've had this connection community and that you'll go, yeah, I want to do that, you know, because I trust what Deb says. So here's the thing, is that when I. When I see people that don't turn up authentically, them, the trust is minimized. And we know there's never been more of a time where we have less trust in what we buy.

Yeah. Yeah.

And five years ago, if you put a video online, you go, oh, there's a UFO landing. Oh, that is. That must be ufo because it's video, right?

Yeah.

No one trusts anything at the.

No one trusts anything.

Yeah.

And I think this will be the biggest thing that we'll see.

I was talking to my kids about that at the moment. They don't trust pictures, videos. None of it. They're like, none of it is real. Even if it's real, they're like, we don't trust anything. Which I think is, you know, difficult for their generation.

So, interestingly, there was a thing on Paris with the Eiffel Tower, and there was this whole controversy. This was on TikTok, right. About the Eiffel Tower was on fire. And it went. It scooped through the. The Internet and. But it wasn't really. It was AI generated.

Yeah.

But it was hot news for the day because people were like, oh, my God, is that really a problem?

Isn't it?

Yeah.

Or it is already.

Yeah, totally interesting.

Hey, but fun.

So interesting. So you mentioned before that you're going on the road. How did this come about from a marketing point of view to go, you know what? I'm going to hit the road. I'm going to go meet people in person because I love this idea, it's one of my favorite things to do.

I, I think I'm an introvert, extrovert these days. It's like, you know, it's like I work from home and I love being able to work from home, but I love being able to get out and talk with people and hear their stories and connect with them. Because at the end of the day, you know, I'm. I work with the Groundswell foundation, which is about helping combat loneliness in Australia affecting mental health. And so one of the biggest things that comes out of the report with the Connection Matters report was about, we are so connected, but we're so disconnected in our world these days. So the stats on loneliness are just through the roof. And so it's so important for us to go back out and make an effort to, you know, connect with people again and have real conversations. Because I love having the flexibility to do, you know, the A. Like a business online.

Yeah.

But when you walk into a room and you can touch people and feel their energy.

Yeah.

Feel their, you know, laughter and, and conversation, that to me just, yeah. Sets my world on fire. So I love that idea. And that's.

What are you doing at these workshops that you're going to run?

So I'm doing, first of all, content strategy. So one of the biggest things I see is people throw so much time and resources wanting to put themselves out there, but they don't know what they're to actually create.

Yeah.

And so I want to help them, first of all, with the foundations, get their strategy right and give them the tools to be able to shortcut that process as well with AI. So I want them to be able to go, right, I've got a plan, I've got a strategy, and now I can outsource it to a va. And what happens is that what I see a lot of the time is people outsource their content creation, content marketing. And I'm not just talking about a social media video. I'm just talking about the whole marketing strategy. They'll hand it off to a VA going, yeah, I can write an email, a blog and put some social reels up. But they're not getting impact. It's because they haven't got their strategy in place. So I want to help them do that first and then give them the tools on how to use video and AI to be able to do that. So that's my focus.

Going to be super fun. And we'll link to that in the show notes as well so that people can find that in there.

Too.

What has been throughout your, your transition from going all in to course creation? What's been the hardest thing about becoming a course creator?

The juggling act of having that full time role and that security of income to going in and wanting to do all the things that I need to do for my business. And I think that's where I have this burning passion to just keep going like that tenacity. To just keep going. That is the hardest thing of going. I, I've got my list. My list is like this. But I've only got this much time in my day, right?

I mean, does that ever end though? Dev? I know we go on vacation on Friday and I had our team meeting yesterday, which was the Monday and you know, I've got a lot of calls this week and different things. I'm like, there's 73 items on my task list before we go away. And some of them, most people would spend a day doing that one thing. I'm like, so this is either going to end in massive disappointment or I'm going to get some things off the list. But I think, I don't know an entrepreneur that is realistic with their time. No, we all think we can do better than what we can do.

I am so deluded in this thing. I think I can do so much more than what I can actually do. And often that's why my son will come in and knock on the door and go, it's time to go to bed. Like, I think you should tap out, out. You know, it's like, get off the. Or my dog, actually, my dog sits at the window here and she'll tap in the afternoon at the glass door.

To go, yeah, now, yeah, it's time.

Yeah.

Otherwise I'll just keep going. Like, I just.

So glad you've got that. Yeah, so glad you've got that. I don't. I was having this conversation with someone this morning because she was saying she gets up at 4 o' clock in the morning to get her work done before like the rest of the household gets up. And I, which I think has been a blessing. I am not a morning person or a night person. I'm like a middle of the day thriver. I thrive between 7:30 and 4:00pm that's it. I have never been able to get up super early and I have never worked past five because I just have no brain left. So I hear people do that. I'm like, that's amazing that you have the capacity to do that. But I, I go very hard and fast and then I'm done like a toddler.

Yeah, I get this about, I think it's about 7:30 to like a 9:30 peak buzz. Again like if I get up and have a refresh and then I'll come back in but I'm tired at the moment. So.

Yeah, I think whatever works. I think one of the most integral parts of being successful in business is figuring out what works for you as an individual human and just doing that.

And I think you just gotta like what you do. If you've got a mission behind the, like the why, like if I go, I've got a, a product that I've got to get up and I've got a, these are the things that I have to do in order to launch it, then I can just come in on a Saturday or a Sunday, it doesn't matter. I can work 14, 15 hours for the day and just lose all track of time.

Yeah, you're in flow.

I mean just, I just want to get it done.

Yeah.

What advice would you give to other people who are looking to level up their online business that are kind of in those beginning stages and, and looking at what to do next?

Biggest thing is relevance and, and, and knowing who you're talking to and using the tools that are available. Like I started my career in, in media, in radio and it still blows. Like, and people like small businesses would have to spend thousands of dollars to advertise their business. And it still blows my mind that we have the, our phone in our pocket that we can talk to anyone for free like, and reach thousands if not millions of people for free.

Yeah.

And I'm like, take the time to leverage that because it won't always be around whatever we, whatever was 30 years ago isn't today. And whatever's today won't be in five years or even a year completely. So I'm just like, you've gotta, if you want business to grow, you have to think about where do you put your efforts and because that's what I hear as well as a lot of people go, I'd like more people through my door. I'd like more business. I'm like, what are you doing to, to do it? Yeah, like, and it's so have you heard about Google's 7114 rule?

No.

Okay. So you know the buyer journey to turn a stranger into a buyer. Google did all this research where it takes on average seven hours of someone consuming your content or researching across 11 different touch points across four different locations to turn them from a stranger to a buyer. Okay. So years ago it was like four touch points and I, I work on 20 touch points in business. So it's like, this is why when people, we talk about quality over quantity, it's so important to think about having one quality piece of content and being able to redistribute it across the platforms that are available for us because we learn different. But we also, like you mentioned in one of your master classes, you get really good conversion with carousels, but if you didn't do all of the other stuff that you do, you wouldn't get the conversion from a carousel. I get conversions from stories. Yeah. Okay, so. But I do all the other bits and pieces. It's the email, it's a podcast, it's a video, it's the face to face, it's the somebody else saying together, everything works together. And if you're just relying on, you know, one thing, it's not enough these days.

Oh yeah, completely.

Yeah.

Great advice. And what is your favorite part about being in her empire Builder?

You.

Of course, no one ever says that.

And I, and I gotta say this because when I was doing all the research, like when I was, you know, building my Kajabi website, I was literally getting up at three in the morning watching these webinars so I could ask them questions live. And they were all in America. They were all in America. And then when I saw you're on the Kajabi, I did your lead magnet funnel and I just remember you were just like you. And I'm like, this is what I love is, is just how you break it down. You make it so approachable and easy for people to come into your world and help them grow their business and cut out all the stuff that they don't need to be doing. And I think that that's the most powerful thing that you have is that like, I know how to do all those things. But when you have somebo going, okay, now do them like now what are you gonna do this month? Let's do it. And I, and that's the, that's the rocket that often we, we know so much. We, it's not that we need to learn things, it's that we just need somebody rallying there to go and get it done.

Yeah, let's do the next thing.

Let's do it. Let's make it happen.

Yeah.

And so for you, where are you heading? What does success look like for Deb for the rest of 2024?

It is about helping more people to be able to use the free tools that are available for everyone to promote their business, to get visible and help other people. Because when I help people show up, they then go and help all those other people. That changes lives.

Like, yeah, the ripple effect is the coolest thing.

Changes lives. And that's why, you know, when you do turn up and tell people what you do using video, it's so impactful.

Yeah.

So good. Thank you, Deb. We'll link to your workshops and then your other resources in the show notes below so that people can find you. It was such a pleasure. Thank you for sharing your story with us.

Thank you so much.