Ep151 Online Business Building with Tiffany Lee Bymaster

Oh, Tiffany Lee Bymaster, welcome to the Her Empire Builder Podcast.

Hello. Thanks for having me on.

Thank you for coming on. We'll let everybody know that I did interview you on IG Live, and I was like, we'll just repurpose this and put it on there. And the consummate professional in you is like, no, Tina, no, we can do better.

Well, I mean, I love a good IG Live, but it's not the best way to create content and then repurpose it.

Yes.

You know how it is. So.

Yeah.

And I'm like, it's a little dodge. Why are you so blurry? Okay, let me put my glasses on. Yeah.

And so known for the glasses. Okay, so I want to start off with, like, the question that you get asked all the time in how did you end up in this online world? Because you have a beautiful story with how you went around and around before you actually embraced it.

Yeah. I literally was an accidental online entrepreneur. I had an offline business for many, many years, probably close to 15 years when I started my online business. And I was a makeup artist and wardrobe stylist and did set design for film and television, and also started working with some really big names as their personal stylist. And they were transitioning from offline to online as well. I don't know what's happening with my glasses. Hold on, Let me just take them off. Having difficulties. So I was with all these amazing people who were coming to the online space when it was still new, because we often forget that the online space hasn't been around for that long. Like, even Google and Amazon and Uber and all those things didn't exist not too long ago. So I kind of stumbled upon it because I was working behind the scenes. And then I was like, what is this stuff? What is this social media? Way before we even called it influencers. And I love that online years are like dog years. It goes by really quickly. And so I just noticed, you know, why. Why couldn't I do this? Even though I loved. I absolutely loved what I did offline in the production world, I thought I was going to be a makeup artist and stylist forever. I absolutely loved my clients. I loved the work that I was doing. It was super fun most of the time, but I saw this whole new thing. And the beauty of the online space is that when you have exposure, when you're around amazing people, you get to learn about things that you didn't even know were a thing. I didn't even know any of this existed, and neither did they. They were some of the first pioneers to the online space. And so I got that early exposure, but I stalled for a long time. I was using social media, but I wasn't on it to build a brand or a business. And I fell in love with just connecting with people from all over the world, just like you. You're in Australia, I'm here in. In Southern California.

That's so cool, right?

It's so cool how you could do that. And so once I got a little taste of it, that little seed was planted into my brain and it just exploded from there. But nothing happened overnight. For me, the biggest switch was simply asking myself, why not me? Like, why couldn't I do this? Why couldn't I be the person that for most of my adult life was working behind the scenes, getting everybody else camera ready, making them feel amazing and confident before they spoke on stage? I never thought that was something that would be a possibility for me. And until I started asking those questions, like, why not me? I have things to say. I think I do. Once I just allowed myself to explore that, it opened the doors. And it's because I gave myself permission.

That you think held you back the most from just going for it? Because, I mean, you were exposed to rock stars in the industry, that would have made it look a lot easier for you, but you had that hold back. Like, what was holding you back from going for it straight away?

So much of it was just honestly my own belief in myself and thinking that I needed to wait for somebody else to give me permission or to give me a certificate of permission or, you know, something that just said, you.

Are now writing a permission slip.

Yes, I need you to write me a permission slipping and allow me to start doing this. It wasn't until, and it's not that I had all the belief in myself. I just needed literally 1% more belief in myself than the doubts. Literally 1%. That's what started the business.

Like, okay, I can do it.

Yeah. And for me, it was never overnight. For me, it wasn't like this one big moment, and then my life changed. It was nothing like that. It wasn't discovered the way that most of us never wait for those things anyways. But it wasn't until I gave myself permission to. To do things beyond what I currently know, beyond what was my reality, and to then say, why not try this? And what could happen? And so many of us will manifest the things that we don't want in our lives because we focus on the things we don't want. We think about all the negative, worst case scenario, what ifs. Right. Well, I still did that, but I just had a few more moments where I thought about the positive what ifs. What if it does completely work out and you build a life beyond your dreams? I couldn't even have thought this big in those early years, but I didn't need to. I just needed that 1% more confidence, 1% more assurance that I should at least give it a shot. And so many of us, especially the types of entrepreneurs I attract, that you attract heart centered, amazing, beautiful soul entrepreneurs who often are so rough and very hard with how we speak to ourselves. But we are the biggest cheerleaders for other people. I mean, a living at being everybody else's biggest cheerleader, of literally seeing them in a beautiful way that they didn't necessarily see themselves back then. I did it in the form of makeup and styling. Now I do it with helping people launch their businesses, really hone in on their brands, and specifically do it on video, which is one of the most intense, intimidating things. But I know that if I could do it, anybody can do it.

And that is such a good thing to point out, because I do. I know, like, in my 20s, I worked with a psychologist because I had a lot of negative self talk going on, or not so much negative self talk. Like, I've always been my biggest cheerleader and encourage me, but my inner critic could also, like, the expectations are sky high. And if it wasn't perfect or so far above and beyond, man, she was a big bitch. It's just like psychologists say, if anybody else ever said anything like that to you, you'd be like, what on earth? Like, it's just not okay. And so I think that's a really big learned skill. And I also love your, you know, what if it all worked out? And that is something that is part of my morning visualization. Every morning I think of, what if everything came true? What if every dream happened? And I imagine what that looks like. And it's. It's one of my favorite parts of the day.

Yeah. And that is a huge mindset shift because just naturally our brains want to protect us. It's the lizard brain part of our, you know, like how we can actually change our regular conditioning. And it's all neuroplasticity and I nerd out on those things. But it just boils down to, you can change the way that you have been thinking your entire life.

Yeah.

If you choose to do it. And you can make small baby steps to do it. You can literally change the structure of your brain, you can reroute how you think. You can go from automatically doing the things to your brain wants to protect you and keep you safe and not have you right out in the middle of the street or that's why we naturally go towards the negative what ifs. And so once you start to check yourself and then you're able to recognize when you do that and then do the opposite, you start to change that automatic thinking instead of the automatic negative thoughts. And a lot of people call it ants, your automatic negative thoughts, you switch that to then consciously create more of the positive outcomes and your life will completely change. It's like looking through glasses when you've been blind and blurry eyed most of your life.

Yes. And I think that's one of the best things that comes with enough time in business as well. I mean, probably you and I have both got pages and pages of stories of what people would perceive as failures, lessons learned the hard way, bad investments, all of those different things. But I think once you do it enough times, you know, it's not catastrophic that we can actually bounce back and be okay. And I know now, like I'll try things and be like, you know, we'll see how this goes. Like let's, let's go for it. Like one of those is like, you're speaking at our launch retreat. So last week I had to pay the deposit for that of $40,000 and that was the first time for me and paying a depos for an international retreat. And I'm like, like a part of my heart is like, oh my God.

What if no one does it?

But there's different things in going, you know, we, we're in it for long enough and you go, should be right. It's okay, it's all good. And if the worst happens, you can always bounce forward from that as well. Have you, has it gotten easier for you as business has gone on to back yourself in doing different things?

Oh my gosh, 1000%. Because as you are in this business longer and you're thriving, you can't build a business whether offline online. Nowadays it's kind of all blurred lines, right? Everything is online. But you have enough evidence to remember every time you start to doubt yourself every time you go towards that automatic negative thinking. And we're so good at catastrophizing everything. We're like the worst case scenario. We hold onto those things. Um, and it's not true. It's not true. And you have to, I literally say out loud to Myself. It's not true. When those thoughts come out, I have to say it out loud. I have to hear it for myself, as if I'm coaching myself the way I coach my students.

Yes.

And I say it.

Susie Moore's book has just come out. Let it be easy. Have you seen that?

I haven't yet, but I've heard about it.

Yeah, it's really good. And there's a quote in the. In the. You know what? I shouldn't have even brought it up because there's no way in the world I will remember the quote.

Quote.

Exactly. But it's around the whole pretense of, you know, about worries and how many of them just are never even true. Yeah. We spend so much time worrying about stuff that's just not even real, that makes our life harder than it needs to be.

So imagine what would be possible if we started to focus on all the best case scenarios of all the amazing things that could happen. And so every time I stumble, I just. I stumble all the time. I don't even call them failures. They're just. It is what it is. It's not even learning experiences for me. It just is a part of life and business. I have just learned to bounce up, like you said, bounce forward so much faster. I just don't stay down as long as I used to. I just get up faster and I make more mistakes. And the best parts of our lives, whether it's our love life, our personal lives, our business lives, if you think about the timeline of your life and you think about the worst moments, the hardest moments, the scariest moments, just what happens to the right of that timeline immediately after because you're still here and you're alive and kicking. Somehow you made it through. It often is. The best moments.

Yeah.

Are what follows it, that learning lesson or the pivot, or switching and deciding to finally do something to change your life and live the life that you actually want. And for me, I've had so many of those moments in the moment. It's awful. It's that horrible, messy middle that you're going through it and you can't decipher up from down. And. And it's not until you recover from that that you realize that was a huge milestone moment. It was a pivot point. And. And then you get to appreciate those things. So then when the. The next time. Not if, but when it happens, you're able to handle it better.

So I'd like to ask you more about that with the start, with how you actually like what the first Thing was that you launched and you did say, you know, it was accumulative over time. You weren't like that, like boom, with an amazing launch and then you shot into the stratosphere. Because I know that for a lot of the people that I work with, it's like it's one of these things that nearly everyone that I know that's created multiple six figure launches or seven figure launches or whatever that goal is that they want to achieve. It's taken a couple of years to be able to get there, but then you get there and in hindsight you go, well, geez, that was quick. Like that was good, that was all worth it. But while you're in that messy middle, you're filled with so much doubt in going, is this ever going to work for me? Is am I going to be able to do it? How is it going to go? Like, am I going to be one of the failures? Am I going to go like all of the different things? How did you navigate that? Especially being surrounded by people that were like kicking goals that you would have been comparing yourself to as well.

Yeah, you know what, I think they were in such a different level that I didn't even compare myself. In fact, for me, looking back, that was one of the moments where I was like, that's proof of what's possible. The people that are the ones that are my peers, shoulder to shoulder that we're starting off with and I feel like, well, we started at the same time. I should be where they're at. That's the comparisonitis that I fell into, which is really dangerous. But I think because I had examples both in real life as well as the people I looked up to. Like we were just talking about Spanx before we started and you know, just to, just to know that it's possible for someone who used to sell copy machine door to door, you know.

And so Sarah Blakely is just like.

I love her so much.

Right?

I love her so much. And so I have those heroes that I've never met and I don't necessarily need to meet in person because they show me what's possible. And I know that those little baby steps for me, it didn't happen overnight. But I know looking back, what did work really well for me and got me there faster than a lot of other people. Not to compare, but I was able to reach success pretty quickly my first year at a multiple six figure year, which is super annoying to hear, but let me tell you why, by the time I finally set started even putting anything out there, it was years. I was already building a brand and a business and a following as tiny as it is, and it still is today, relative to again, comparing myself to who I don't know, to a lot of other people, it's a lot bigger, a lot smaller. But what I did do right was I didn't start off selling my own products. I really got so much hands on experience, which I think nowadays is even more important than ever. Because, you know, when I started just seven years ago, seven years ago seems like a lifetime ago in the online space and I was, it's basically what I did, like in makeup and styling. I was an apprentice. I worked behind the scenes. I worked also my first dollar that I made in the online space wasn't for my own products and it wasn't for the first two years I was an affiliate partner. And so I promoted others, other people's stuff. All I did was looking back, it was kind of genius. I learned about sales, I learned about marketing, I learned about promotions, I learned about how to communicate and messaging and copy and all those things even before I even knew what an email list was. And human nature is such a funny thing. We are so good at being the champion and the cheerleader for everybody else. I love being that person for other people, being the hype girl and being super selective about what I was promoting as an affiliate. And I legit. Still to this day, I've got really strict rules about what I affiliate for and who I affiliate for. And they are the people that I first spent my money and invested in their programs, even if it's a book or thousands and thousands of dollars in their digital coaching programs. I did it myself without a discount, didn't get it for free. I invested it. And there's a lot of not such great programs and there's really great ones. And because I was so honest about that, I was able to start making money online as an affiliate marketer because I first established myself, even my teeny, teeny tiny audience back there. Back then, no email list. I didn't even know what an email list was. I remember I kept on hearing, eight years ago, you got to get an email list. You can't just use social media. I didn't know what any of that actually meant. And I remember asking a friend, okay, where? What aisle at Target do you buy? This list. What's this list? I keep hearing the money's in the list. Well, I'll invest in it, but where do I get it? I had no idea. And then they had to Explain it to me. Like, you know when you're shopping on the Nordstrom website and then it says, put your email in there and they'll send you notifications and emails when they have sales and stuff. I was like, oh, how do I do that? Why do I do that? Why do I need that? So I didn't even know what I didn't know yet. We're all capable of learning everything that you need to learn one little baby step at a time. And I learned really quickly because I was able to learn the backside of marketing by not having my own products first, which also is a huge alleviation of so much stress of putting our stuff out. And I hear so many creators say, I created a course or my coaching program. I birthed my baby. And I was like, well, no wonder it's scary if you look at it as like a human child.

Yeah. You get to sidestep that vulnerability by being an affiliate, you're not like, putting yourself bare to the world. Yeah.

And they have the responsibility of delivering, which if you choose wisely, like I do, and you have firsthand knowledge.

Yeah.

You know they know they're doing that. Yeah. So all I have to do is put my reputation on the line and promote them. And by being really selective, which I still do now. And I don't do a ton of affiliate marketing, but the ones that I do, I go all in as if it's my own launch.

Yeah.

That's why I'm successful as an affiliate marketer and it's why I'm successful launching my own things. So by the time I finally, two and a half years in, I finally created my own product. And I remember Kajabi, which I know you use as well. It's the platform where I house my digital programs. They were just coming on up too. And they begged me to please be a guinea pig for what ultimately became the current version of Kajabi. I had two versions of it previously. Everybody's always starting somewhere, Right. Everyone's beta launching. This is when they were beta launching and it was called Kajabi Next doesn't even exist. And they blew it up.

Incredible piece of software. Like, it still blows my mind that we can run such big businesses on one piece of software. Amazing.

With very little tech skills about things that you would need to know to create a brand new Facebook page or an Instagram account and simple things. So I kept on saying no. I had so much resistance. And it took me two and a half years of getting into this space, becoming a really successful multi Multi six figure launch, affiliate marketer. And then I created my first product and it was, I mean, I waited way too long, but I finally put it out there and it was a little, tiny, teeny, inexpensive baby product at the time. And then like a baby, it grew up as I grew up and learned the skills. And I've been launching that one program for over five and a half, almost six years now. The only thing, thank goodness, the only thing that bears the same name, other than the name, is that it's about video and live video. But it is, it has completely, completely done a 180, thankfully. And it needed it from when I started to where it is now, because I gave it a shot, I allowed it to grow and improve as I became a better teacher, a better coach, better with the tech and also all the changes, the ever changing social media platforms that the program initially was just about, like how to do your hair and makeup and how to have perfect lighting and how to build a set. And that was it. It's still a part of the program, but it's literally 10%. It's the cherry on top. It's the after effect. It's not even the main thing anymore. The main thing didn't even exist. But I couldn't have discovered what was actually important had I not started with what I knew.

Yeah. And I find that so interesting because I know that the temptation a lot of the time when you're in that position and you're like, this is working for me, is to create more and more different products. How did you resist the temptation? Like, because you stayed with the one thing for five years. And I know so many really good course creators have like gone niche and stuck with that one thing, but did you ever have the temptation to do like one course just on Facebook Lives? One course just on hair, like all of those little mini courses. How is that journey and that decision making and are you still, do you still fight the temptation or how does that go for you?

No, there's no temptation for me, really.

I would like create a new course every week if I could. Every week I'm like, I want to do another one. This one. This one? Yeah. I would be a serial.

That's perfect too. There's no one perfect right way. There isn't. There just isn't. You just have to know why you're doing what you're doing. But from being in this space long enough, there are two types of entrepreneurs. We can boil it down. The ones exactly like you and then the ones like me and the Vast majority are like you, where they have so many ideas, too many ideas. And I went from being the person, I think, because I've also been a business owner offline for so long and had so many opportunities that I had learned the skill. It's a learnable skill, by the way, Tina, so there's hope.

I resist the temptation. I stick with my one thing. But, yeah, but if I was like unhinged, I would release 50 courses next year.

I just know that for me, I always focus on, you know, there's two things that I do. The way that I learn this skill is before I go immediately with the idea, I do pause to see if this, if it's aligned with where my goals are, if it's aligned with my personal definition of success. Do I have the bandwidth? Is there a demand for this? Do I want to start something from scratch, or can I improve on what I'm already doing? And the answer for me, with, in particular with my niche and what I teach, there's so much room for expansion without confusion. Because that's another thing. Sometimes we create these monster courses that really should be separate things. But that isn't the case for me. And I've been able to streamline. I have learned the art of streamlining down to a science. And it really comes down to creating boundaries and your own barriers for yourself in a positive way so that you can stay laser focused. And so I am able to do that because again, it goes down to knowing what your goals and then prioritizing your goals. And if it's not aligned with that, to be able to say, I'm just going to stick it in my back pocket for now. I'm going to laser focus on this. And it turns out that I've been able to create a lifestyle that matches the business so that I don't take this thing that I love that I. I'm so passionate about and turn it into something that I start to harbor resentment or I burn out, which is. We see that so much in our communities.

Yeah, definitely. Yes, a lot. So I want to ask you about that, but I also want to ask you about launching because you have done a lot of live launches, live launch strategy. Which is why I wanted you as a speaker at our launch retreat. How many launches have you done? I know the answer to this, but I'm like, every time I hear, I'm like, oh, my gosh, that's a lot of launching.

Live launches. For my one program, we've done 13. We just finished our 13th one. And then with all of the other launches for the affiliate programs, I think it's far beyond 28. Yeah. Probably stopped counting a year and a half ago. And then we have lots of internal launches, because then I have a backend membership, which that didn't even. We didn't even create that until almost three years into creating our course. And then it made sense then. But yeah, so we've done all of those internal launches, which I don't even count as, like, the live launches, internal launches. I love that we created a business that allows for a lot of internal launches with very little fanfare, with a lot less stress and all of the moving pieces. So for people that don't know.

Internal launch, you mean just launching to your email list? Yeah.

Or to your existing students, which is something that is a giant area of opportunity that so many business owners of every kind, they're always looking at creating more new traffic. New traffic. New traffic, which, yes, we need to do that. But once you have an entire pool of existing customers and clients and you're doing amazing with what you're delivering and they're getting the results, there is an entire community that is ready to be taken to the next level where they're as obsessed with you as you are with them. And those are the businesses that you really see thriving for so much longer. Because we know all the markety statistics about a new customer cost this much to retain, but then to be able to sell an offer. And people have such a problem with selling. We're selling all the time. This is what we do. But you're creating new offers to give them new transformations. And your existing clients are starving for more if you serve them well the first time. And so my customer retention rate, my customer lifetime value, which really is the true telling number of how healthy a business is, it's not just our cost per leads and our earnings per lead and how much money all of the marketing numbers people share on social media that they did these giant launches, you could have a much more higher profitable business if you really take care of the customers and clients you already have. And then you extend it with, you know, backend offers, internal offers that the public never gets to see. It's only for that special community. And your customer lifetime value will skyrocket if you do that 100%.

So you have people come in at the front end on your course, and then you've got your membership that you sell people into after that. Is that how yours works?

Absolutely. And that's a really small number because a lot of people, when I Started that nearly four years ago now already. It wasn't at the beginning. It was once. I had, at least at the time, probably 11 or 1200 students who had already gone through the front end of my program. And it was because of their demand. I didn't want to create another product. I'm one of those, you know, where I'm laser focused and just grow this and improve this and improve the launch and all those little tiny things, steps that is a part of a business and a live launch and. And being able to deliver really great on those results. And then they kept on demanding. And I also noticed a lot of my students kept on coming back. So when they asked to come back to repeat it, because most of us, regardless of the niche, we are teaching something that requires repetition, repetition to get to mastery. And so my students actually created this. They wanted to know, can we come back? Do you have an alumni offer? I was like, what's an alumni offer? I'll create one, though. So I created I alumni. Why should they have to pay? No, they shouldn't have to pay full price again. So I was like, okay, we'll create an alumni loyalty offer for the same thing. But because they get the live element of the course, which didn't even exist in the beginning, they're coming back and they're like, you never teach it the same because of course I get better. Things change. And it was. It went beyond just the course. My course was. Then it evolved and into a hybrid version where the course became like 20% of the program. It's like a reference book. It's. It's the textbook, and I'm the professor. And then I teach my program live. And then once I added the live element, which I discovered I love the most about my business, I was able to serve my clients. I love that connection. The connection I have with my students is beyond what I could have ever imagined in the beginning. Like these people who. I just got a wedding invitation to one of my students who is actually one of my coaches in my program now, and I just love her so much. And so we do that. And I was like, oh, this is the stuff that makes me get out of bed when I don't want to work or I'm having a bad day and I pick myself off the floor and scoop myself up to do it again. So all these backend memberships, the whole that thing that was born because my students. And they're like, we've done your program twice now. What if we kept going? What if you just did this they introduced it to me. So listen to your customers. Listen to.

Yeah, and I think that's a great point, is listen, and they will tell you what you need to create. And so with the live launching, what do you love most about live launches?

The energy. It is the energy. It's that it's like what we're doing right now, it's like the reciprocity and of going back and forth, and I forget that we have this barrier of I'm sitting in my studio with my pajamas from the waist down, and then I'm on a computer with my webcam and they're looking at me probably from their phone. We all forget that.

Yeah.

And now more than ever, because of what we've all experienced the last, you know, 18 plus month months, because of the pandemic. I want to create an experience that people forget that they're in Australia and I'm in the US and I have so many students in the UK and all over the world and every time zone in North America, that I want to create this amazing experience for what we're teaching and make marketing and business and possibilities, all of it so much fun. And so I love the energy of a live launch. Live launches can look like lots of different things. I love that there's so many hybrid versions. And part of our discovery and getting into our zone of genius is to figure out what we're good at, what lights you up, what energizes you, even if you're like, I'm exhausted in this middle of this launch and I am really in tune as to what conversations, what people, what groups, what am I doing when that energy is really fired up? And then what are the things where I'm like, we're not doing that again. So you double down on. Yes, there is. And you learn. And so you double down on the things that you love and then you scale back on the things that you discover. Not so much. And we often learn about what we want to do by first learning what we don't want to do.

Totally. And do you think, like, because you've been. And it's funny with this online world, because it's like you're a veteran being in the world for like seven years.

Really? Yeah.

A lot of people are like, two, three years. And no, we touched on this the other day when we were chatting real quick. Was, do you think with more people getting into the online world, with more people live launching, with more social media coverage, is it harder now to knock people's socks off, to surprise and delight, to do that. I mean, I say this because I won't name them, but one of the top people the other day who's selling to people like us is their target market. So already pretty successful people and they're still running fake live webinars. And I was going, oh, I'm going like, the audience is too sophisticated now. I go, you, how have they not changed that? Because it used to be like, oh my gosh, they're live. And we used to actually believe it like three or four years ago, but now you feel like you're being lied to. And I think the sophistication of the market has gone up a lot. Have you found that and how have you adapted to that?

I love this question, because how you positioned it is exactly right. And I love this is why you're so successful. It's not really a matter of the marketplace being too saturated. Yes, there's a lot more people in this space than there was just a few years ago. But the way that I look at it, it's not really saturation in the sense of there's not enough room for people to be successful anymore. It really, truly is a matter of our audience that we are trying to attract and then woo and then, you know, get them into our world and see if they want to work with us. You know, I think it really is a matter of how sophisticated they have become. Yes. And markets will always rise up and level up to new levels of sophistication. So the people that are doing those fake live webinars that are already pre recorded and still using those tactics, that is the equivalent of somebody who is trying to sell a Sony Walkman and people want AirPods or something newer, you know, like we don't even need those things anymore. Right. That's the market sophistication. Back when stereos were giant and we had to put like 15 batteries in them to make them work without AC power. And then the Walkman was born and then There was an AirPod and it was even better and faster and smaller and you could put even more songs. Y' all remember cassettes and CDs would have like 12 songs and you have to switch them out. There was a time when that was the highest level of market sophistication. And then the AirPod came out and you can put all your music into magical air and into the sky and it would store hundreds, if not thousands of songs. And now we don't even need that because it all does it on our phone, which is amazing. Like infinite what our phones can do. Like the way that calculators, simple calculators, used to be thousands of dollars. We don't even need that. That's on our phone now, too. So that's the levels of market sophistication. It's always rising up. So for people to do old tactics like that, I think it's a disservice to their audience. And to say that I don't think you're smart enough to know what we're doing. And I'm using old tire tactics, that truly makes our audience feel really bamboozled. I've been using that word a lot lately. I don't know what it is, but I love bamboozled. The world is very bamboozled.

You know, the word that I keep using lately is discombobulated. I freaking love that word right now.

That goes so well with bamboozled. I think it's like the sound it makes. Bamboozled, discombobulated.

It just sounds.

That is so funny. It does. But, yeah, I think it's a disservice to our audience and their sophistication and their intellect. And we don't need to dumb down our messages that way or what our marketing strategies are. They're going to rise up with us. And so. And I love that you said it's.

Really going into, like, how can we just be in front of our target audience so that they can decide if they want to work with us? Like, it really is that simple.

It's an invitation.

Yeah.

It's not about, you know, I love nlp. I love persuasion to an extent.

Yeah.

It's one of those. Those things that you can master that you can use for good or for evil, either way. Right. It's a great skill. And so persuasion in the positive sense. But it's always when we're doing sales. And I love sales. I love sales. If you believe in what it is that you know you're selling or you're telling other people about whether you're coming to Orange County, Tina. And you're like, tell me where to get the best skinny, spicy margaritas. And I'll be like, I'll tell you. That is sales. Or you're like, I love Mexican food. Where do I go for the best Unknown hole in the wall. Locals only in Laguna Beach. I'm like, I'll tell you where that is, too. And you know that is Sal. And you will brag about the things that you're passionate about, the way that we should for our own business, unapologetically. If you wholeheartedly believe in what you do, the transformation it creates. How could you not stand up on the highest rooftops and shout out what it is that you do and who needs to work with you? But it's an invitation. So it's a lot like dating, you know, you want to attract the right person, the right partner, but you never want to have to talk them into it. You don't have. You don't want to do that. Right. Like it needs to be that. This is what I offer. Do you want it or not? Yeah, it's an invitation. It's never a coercion. Or having to convince. Sales is not about convincing.

And that's, to me, what I've seen. The biggest shift in the audience is coming up and I think there'll be a big shift over the next couple of years in who's at the top and how that all plays out and works. So it's very interesting. But I want to ask you about the life behind it as well, because you did a social media post a few days ago talking about how you ended up in the ER a few years ago from over work and you're really conscious of that not happening again and you finished with the line, which I loved. That was, it's time to actually fully enjoy all that I've been working so hard to create.

Yes.

What's happening and how do you prevent that habit pattern from creeping back in again so that you don't end up overworked? Because I know a lot of people can go there.

Oh, absolutely. And I love that I had so many comments about them. People were sharing so openly and honestly, strangers on the Internet. Funny thing, right? Like when we see something that resonates with us and sharing how they're going through it right now, or they needed to hear it. So right before, one of the catalysts and one of the reasons why I even started my online business, so that I can sit in my pajamas all day and just change my top so I can show up for you. But I can work from home and not commute to LA, which from South Orange county, it's only about 60 to 70 miles, depending on the location. But that takes graphic. Yes. Combined with over 15 years working in production, schlepping, I don't even know how many garment racks, working a regular day on film and television. When I worked in television, we had six days on, one day off. This is why right now, this moment, there's such a huge fight with the union in production and all kinds of problems with safety on set and Shootings lately, so they're long days. I loved what I did and I worked with the same crew over and over and over again. So I loved it. Really. We were like circus people. We just traveled, you know, you were never home and you were around the same people all the time and you don't get to leave. It's not like a regular office job where you come in, take a lunch break whenever you want, come back out. No, we're on set. And as makeup or styling, whichever I was doing, or set design, I'm their first thing. I'm the first thing I have to be ready to go. And so on average, a regular day would be about 14 to 15 hours on set. That doesn't account for my commute there and back. I lived, eat, was breathing work, which I tend to do that because I get so passionate about what I do. But it broke me. It literally physically broke me. And for so long I didn't see or feel or recognize the little tiny, tiny whispers that something was going awry with my body, with my hormones and my thyroid and my adrenals. And once any of those things get off kilter, it's just a downward spiral. And I didn't listen to the little clues. I was like, oh, I'm almost 40 at that point. I just need to work out harder, I need to eat less, I need to do all these things. I probably should sleep every now and then. And so I was just working out harder and harder and I had all these little signs. I remember I went to a spin class, I'm obsessed with cycling. Went to spin class and left five minutes early, passed out on the sidewalk. And I was like, that's not good. And that still wasn't enough of a clue for me. And I was there with a bunch of my friends in my class, clients, and I was more embarrassed than anything I was. Why was I embarrassed that I passed out on the. And everyone was like, oh, it's just your blood sugar. You're more fit than ever. And nobody knew. I didn't know. So I had all these little hints and then I had a full on panic attack while I was in my car driving to work the People's Choice Awards while I was also a year and a half into building my online business. So I had two businesses simultaneously going to work, a big award show and almost died on the freeway. And then went to the er and then from there I was like, okay, God universe, I hear you. I ignored all of the subtle whispers. It wasn't until God took me by my shoulders and shook me really hard to finally get my attention. And by the time I did that, which by the way, you don't want to go to the ER just simply for that massive bill that you get here in the U.S. anyway, I got a massive bill even with insurance. It was so frightening. Luckily I have a cap on my out of pocket expenses. We hit it. I had to stay overnight, which is another thing, because then it's even more expensive. So all those little clues. I just should have gotten some blood work done and started fixing the things that I had been breaking down, literally breaking down over time. And this is where also you have to be really conscious of how mentally strong you are. Because I mind over mattered myself into total sickness.

Yes.

And so many of us are like.

That pattern happens so much with entrepreneurs.

Yeah, yeah. Oh, we'll just push through. We just need to serve. We need to show up. We can't take a break. My business is going to completely disappear. All my hard work. And guess what? None of it's true. None of that is true. In fact, I think about a week or so ago, Instagram even announced that they have a new feature for business owners and creators that you can take a break.

Yeah, take a break.

I'm not gone. I'm just. I'm just taking a conscious break. What would the goop lady say? Gwyneth? We're taking a conscious business break.

A conscious uncoupling to our phone.

Yes.

Yeah.

Just a break from our business and all of our constant content creation and being on the hamster wheel of doing that and the pressures of doing that. And I didn't leave one business that broke me, that I love to create another business that was going to break me in different ways or same ways. So now I'm really conscious about how I have the subtle signs and I pay attention to the subtle signs, even though I need to get better. But I have moments in my business where I'm better about how I calendar. When do I say yes to things? When do I say no? I pause before I say yes to even great opportunities. Like when you asked me if I could speak at your vet, and as much as I want to do automatic reflex, said yes, let me pause and just double check that my life is straight, figure out what's happening and before, so that I don't put myself into that position, so that I don't show up to your event completely burnt out and not be able to serve your audience 100,000 10%, which is my style and what I like to do. I like to over deliver, but I have to make sure that I prioritize what I'm committed to and have those seasons in my business and my life where I get to just learn to finally relax and enjoy the fruits of all my labor and my business this and to protect what it is that I love. Because so many of us love what we do. So many of us love what we do. So many of us over deliver and it works for us. But if you want longevity in your business, if you want to exist and continue to love what you do and deliver what it is that you do, even better, you got to take some breaks and you have to have those, those times that you are able to take the sabbaticals, the mental health breaks before you need it.

Yes.

To be proactive about those things. And especially as creators, especially as you'll.

Be able to tell from this question that this is something that I've been working on this year. But do you ever feel the guilt when you step away and you say no to people and you're enforcing those boundaries? Do you ever feel like you've got team working and you're not working and that's all you've said no to an opportunity, but they're a friend and you wish you could say yes. And like, do you ever feel that pull and are you okay to just go, you know what? I know this is what I need because I'm not going to end back up in the er and you're solid on that. How do you mentally grapple with that?

I think it's because I'm publicly talking about these things a little bit more. I think for me, it wasn't so much about the guilt. I think it was more fear. It was fear that if they ask and I say no, they'll never ask me again. Take a break from social media. That everything that I've been, the momentum, the momentum is going to stop and you can never get it started again. For me, it was more about the fear of what I've been working so consistently and diligently. And this is what we tell our students to do as well, that it's all going to disappear. And so it's not true. We can pick up where we left off. And I'm not one of those people that starts things and typically doesn't finish them. But I know that I'm at a point now where it's actually, if I don't do that, it's going to. That's going to be how my business goes down. Because if I'm no good, then I can't help my team. Without me, there is no team. And they know that, too. If it gets to the point where your team is encouraging you to take some time off, then that's probably not a good sign. And you have to trust the people that you have, especially if they've been with you for a while. You got to trust. You got to. You got to put that out there and have the faith that they're there to have your back. And even if they don't, they're not going to do it the way that you do it. But. But to really be able to look at your schedule and your calendar, especially if you've been in business for more than two years, you kind of see what the cycle is. You plan ahead, even though there's always moving parts. And you do it with a giant eraser and never with a Sharpie, but in pencil. You can change your plans. You can say no later. But I just find that it's so much easier to be proactive, to map out when I'm going to launch and then actually put in and prioritize the times that it's going to be a little bit of a downtime, because I want it that way. That way I can come back with full energy, full force. And I like having the downtime and the big surges of live launches and the energy of that and then kind of hiding away. That works for me. That really works for me to re. Energize. And I haven't taken a really long sabbatical, but that is like the next goal.

Yeah. I have. Have five weeks off Christmas and January, and then next year, I have blocked out one week every month to be off. Wow.

That is schools. That is school. I love it.

I did it this year, so I'll preface that. I did it this year and then I got to that week and I was like, look at this blank week. I can do so much productive stuff with this week. So I worked even harder. So my challenge next year for myself is to can I take space? Can I do that? Because I've been in business 17 years and I'm not. Not used to space. So it's. It's getting comfortable with that. I'm familiar and going, that is okay. So I'm really. Yeah, I could ask you, like, 50 million more questions about that because I'm intrigued.

It's practice. It does take practice. It's taken me a long time to do that because it's so easy to go into that I have the space, so I'm going to fill it. Yeah, no, the only thing you're allowed to fill it with is, you know, know spa dates or learn to do nothing. Tina. Learn to do nothing.

Yeah, Especially well. I've got like this kinesiologist kind of business coach, kind of lovely woo woo, wonderful thing going on at the moment. And she was telling me, like, my, my whole thing is I actually love my work. Like a lot of people that become successful when you're given a chunk of time, like, what would you like to do? Something where you feel in control, Something where you feel powerful. Something where you feel like you're creating contribution, you feel alive. Of course that's what we're going to go for. Sure. It's got to you. Can't you lose it if you don't learn to step away?

I'm like, oh, your adrenals rest.

I know, I know. So, yeah, we're working on that. I love that. So what is on the horizon for you? I'd love to finish with where are you heading and kind of how big is big enough for you to go with your business? Do you have that sort of plan or are you seeing where the world takes you? Where do you sit on that?

That's such a great question. As much of a strategic and planner type of person that I am, I've actually let go of a lot of that. I know how I want to feel, which I know is such a weird woo woo answer for someone who's so analytical. Love that because I'm super analytical. Even the way that I used to do makeup and styling was very mapped out and analytical and process wise. But I have let go a lot of that and that actually gave me so much more freedom. I know how I want to feel. I know that I want to feel confident in my finances and know that money is not something that is hard for me to be able to create money on demand if I needed it to have the foundations of my business. I know again, like I said earlier, that I know what I want because I know what I don't want. I know that I don't want a massive team. I don't want 20 employees. I want maybe five max. I want to work with people that want to work with me and love what we do and co create. I love the word co create. I want to co create magic together and that invokes a feeling. And I want to feel secure without also feeling super secure. Because if you need certainty and security, that's not what is equated with being an entrepreneur, but knowing that I always have options, knowing that I can always take care of myself, knowing that I need more time to breathe and to create and to allow for whatever the next iteration is going to look like. I've been doing the same thing for a long time and I know that right now, not just in business or online business, but I really, truly believe globally we are on the cusp of a lot of big changes, that so many things are going to look different, experiences are going to look different. Just like a few years ago, we didn't even know what all of this online space and AR VR, all the weird stuff that is starting to come up on the horizon that didn't exist, Uber didn't exist. I don't know what is the next thing that currently doesn't exist, but it's going to exist very soon. So I'm going to go with the flow a little bit more and invite uncertainty, invite not having to know every single step of the way, but know that I am equipped with everything that I have experienced and endured and have have created from scratch thus far that's going to take me to the next level. So that gives me a lot, a little bit of comfort knowing that I don't have everything so buttoned up. I know that I already have everything I've already created. I'm just really fascinated with all the possibilities of what I don't even know what I don't know. Yeah, that's going to soon be the new known very soon.

Oh, I'm so excited for you. Congratulations. That's a beautiful place to be. Thank you. I could go on for hours and hours, but thank you for sharing so openly and generously because I know that like so much of what you said will resonate with so many incredible women that we have in our network and I cannot wait to, to spend time with you in Palm Springs in the rainbow, in person.

And I'm so excited about that because I do know for sure. I am starving for human interaction. I've been like holed up in my house. I'm a massive introvert by the way. People who actually know me know I'm not just a regular introvert. I don't do anything small. I'm a massive hermit level introvert. But this girl needs to get out. So I'm excited to be traveling more next year and to do some, some new things with new clients and travel and speak in person again. I love virtual. You do virtual? We do live video, we do all the things. But I cannot wait to see humans in person again. So we'll actually get into the tactical and strategic and live video and live launching. We'll do that at your event. I'm so excited about that. But this is so much fun to have a conversation about all the other things that we do as business owners.

Thank you so much. Gorgeous. Thank you.