Episode 121 How to Get Your Online Course Content Written 10X Faster

Hello, Gina. Welcome to her Empire builder, Tina.

I cannot wait for this interview. I'm so excited to be on. Thank you.

I'm so happy. I mean, I got the privilege of being on yours last month, which was amazing, and I have been waiting to be able to interview you now and, like, turn the tables on that.

Me too. I've been looking forward to this. We've been getting such an amazing response to your podcast. So. Yes, I've been looking forward to this.

Yes. Can you. I'll link to that in the show notes, too. So if anyone wants to jump over to Gina's podcast and listen to that, It's a good one. I actually talked about things I don't. You asked me questions that a lot of people don't normally ask me in terms of profit and how to manage the money in an online course, which was really cool.

Yeah. I'm surprised they don't ask you that. You are such an expert, and I feel like it's a topic that we don't talk enough about.

Yeah.

And systems are just incredible. So.

Yeah.

If you haven't listened yet, please check it out. Yeah.

It's so good. Okay, so can you give me a little bit of an overview of how you got to where you are now? Because you're a pretty big deal in the online course world.

Well, sometimes. Think so. So I started with online courses, actually physical, way back in the day with Tony Robbins. And I know Tony Robbins has a presence here in Australia, so hopefully your listeners are familiar with.

I don't think anyone doesn't know who Tony Robbins is.

So perfect. So back in the day, I was Tony's creative manager and running his content, and I got to go to all kinds of events, many in Sydney and Gold coast, and that's where I really learned how to create courses and products. And Amy Porterfield, the Amy Porterfield was my boss at the time. We learned together. And from there, I joined my husband's company after my son was born, and that's when I got the entrepreneur bug, because I didn't want to miss one moment of Tristan growing up. And we build courses now together with experts, entrepreneurs, speakers. We either coach them through it or we do it for them. I love it.

That is so good. And I love connecting and being able to do that, too. I had no idea, though, that you worked with Anthony Robbins. That's so cool.

Yes.

Yes. There was a lot of intense moments, and I've got some stories. But another podcast. I've got a lot of stories.

Yeah, I can imagine. Yeah. Just even seeing the behind the scenes of that would have been so interesting.

Yes, definitely. There was a lot of frantic moments and a lot of learning that went on, but I really treasure that. It was, like I said, it was intense, but I learned so much. He's like the king, of course. Creation and content creation.

Yeah, totally. Totally. Okay, so today, what I want to talk about is creating that course content and how to actually get that all happening. Because I know it's where a lot of people become stuck. They decide they want to get started, but then they go, okay, where do I start? How do I do it? What's too much? What. What do I need to look out for to get that actually into play? So I want to start with, what mistakes do you see people make when writing their course content?

Yeah, such a great question. And we mentioned Tony, so why not start with Tonyism?

Right?

And I think people, a lot of times there's overachievers who are creating courses. I'm sure you work with overachievers. I work with them all the time. There's. There's a reason you're putting out a course. It's because you're a badass. You have expertise and you know what you're talking about. But because of that, sometimes we have what I call outstretched expectations. Especially when it comes to scripting your course. You need it to be perfect. You need all the details in there. You need the best stories. Right. And the best examples. And that's really, really hard to pull off, especially for your first or your second course. So Tony talked about when I was working for him, and I know he's still talking about this, that unhappiness lies when our expectations don't match our life conditions. And that happens all the time with scripting and creating our courses. I encourage anyone listening to trade expectations for serving your students with a transformation. So just leave the expectations behind and instead focus on your promise, the result that you're delivering for your student. And then something kind of clicks. Something transforms for you when you focus on service instead of the overachieving, instead of making sure it's perfect.

I think that actually goes into everything. Like, that was, for me, that was the biggest thing was showing up on video when I didn't want to be on social media and do videos all the time. And then I think it was Jasmine Star. I saw her and she said something along the same lines and going, stop thinking about yourself. Like, start thinking about the people that you serve and what they need and focus on that and show up for Them. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Focus on that transformation. Yeah, I love that.

Okay, so when you're going to do that. So how do you actually start writing course content?

Yeah, that's such a good question. So I've got this post it exercise and we can give them a link or we can walk it through it. But if you want to focus on your course content, I want you to focus one script at a time. So first you want to have that overview set. So I see a lot of people just kind of dive in and say, I'm just, I have a topic and I'm just going to brainstorm everything I could think of. It's like, oh, wait, wait, wait, let's step back for a moment and let's get a framework. I'm big on frameworks. I know you're big on systems. So start with a system. It doesn't have to be my posted exercise, whatever it is, start, start with a vision and a breakdown of what you want to achieve. And then I've got a framework to actually write each lesson, each video lesson. And do you mind if I walk through it?

I'd love you to. Amazing. Let's go.

Okay, so I believe in frameworks and I believe what's the system for this? So, like, my two favorite questions are what's your outcome and what's the system?

Right.

Or who has done this before? I guess I have three favorite questions. So when I worked for Tony, I noticed a pattern of how he was presenting content either in the studio, at events, wherever we were. And I was thinking to myself, this guy, he does a five part system. So the first piece that you want to think about when you're writing your course content, each lesson. Okay, number one, start with a hook. So I think we take for granted, Tina, that just because someone has bought our course, they're going to be immediately immersed inside of our course content and ready from the get go. It's not true. Like, it's tough to get them across the finish line. Sometimes you, you have to work just as hard with the marketing as the course creation to keep them engaged. So with this hook, it could be a question, it could be a statistic, it could be something that grabs their attention, lets them know, okay, get ready for this, you're ready to learn. The second piece is tell them what they're going to learn. A lot of times we just jump in. We have to orient them. Especially if you're doing a signature course or a bigger course that has 30 lessons in it, you, your student might be like, where the heck am I right? So we got to tell them where they are and what they're going to learn. Then as part of step three, that's your core content. So maybe the lesson has five steps or three ways or just one core concept that you want to get across, that you want to teach. That's part three and that's where the bulk of your lesson is going to be. Then part four, you're going to give them homework. I really believe, and I'm sure you do too, Tina, that make it implementable. Like, 95% of your lessons should have an action item. It doesn't necessarily have to be a worksheet or a template or anything like that. It could be like a simple exercise. Go outside and do this.

Yeah, Action steps.

So important.

Yes.

The action steps. I had a course creator who, okay, it wasn't my course creator. It was a potential course creator I was going to work with. And he said, well, I'm going to film 14 videos and I'm just going to put it up, I'm going to put it out. And I said, great, where are your handouts? Like, where are your downloads? Like, oh, I don't need those downloads. I said, then, great, you don't have a course. Like, with all due respect to me, the definition. Because I think it's going to be more difficult for your person to have a transformation. So I might have been a jerk in that moment, but that's just the way I feel about it. Like, you need to have those take action pieces. So that's step four, part four. And then finally, as the fifth part of your lesson, you're going to tell them next steps. Now that you've learned this piece, we're going to move on and learn about that. So it stacks, right? Because overall, what makes a course a course? The stacking of the value, the stacking of the lessons to the transformation. So that that's the five part system. I love it.

That is so good. I hope everyone wrote that down. We might summarize that below in the show notes as well. Yeah, I love it. And so one of the big mistakes that I see people making when they go through that process is because a lot of people that make courses are getting their expertise and then packaging that into a course. And the mistake that I see people make so often is too much. It's just too much content in there. How do you help people to distill what's most important and what can be left for something else? Because it's not vital to that transformation?

Okay. I love that. So I have an exercise called the Course Promise. You probably have something very similar, Tina, where we talk about what's the transformation and what is the result that you're providing. So going back to the outstretch expectations in the beginning of this episode with the Promise, you don't want to go too overboard. And this is where I see a lot of course creators go bananas when it comes to their course content, get overwhelmed, stop and get frustrated. So first and foremost, look at your course promise and are you promising too much? Like I had a financial planner who said, I want to teach couples everything that there is to know, small families, everything there is to know about financial planning. And I'm like, dude, you'll never get it done because there's no such thing. And then we pared that back to I'm going to give a starter financial plan for families with kids under 12.

Right.

So we're smaller kids. And then he woke up, right? Then he had a breakthrough and he could finish the course. So I think if you are finding yourself in overwhelm with that content, start there. Start with the course promise. Another piece of advice, and I'm sure you talk about this is don't fall in love with your content.

Right?

Which is hard because hey, I love my.

Hey, everything that we put out is like gold.

Exactly. Everything I'm saying right now is amazing. So. But it's, it's so hard. But we can't fall in love with it because we have to just say my doesn't need this. It's not, it doesn't. They don't need this for the promise, they don't need this for the transformation. It is just extra. So if it's extra, make it a bonus, right? Or 2.0 or make it your free content for your run up to your launch. There's a lot of fun things because I am one. I'm a content hoarder. Like no, no content is thrown out, right? No content left behind. But it doesn't mean it has to be crammed into your course.

Yeah, I love that because it is, yeah, it is really tempting. I had someone that I was working with and they was uploading on Kajabi and they're like, I just, I just don't know whether it's easy for people to move through it. And I looked at it and it's a six week course. I had 120 something videos and I was like, oh no.

Yeah, yeah. And there's a great example of sorry, but very likely did not start with the framework. Right. Very likely did not sit down and do a post exercise, my post exercise, or do some kind of exercise that breaks it down first. That is so critical and knowing because I talk to a lot of course creators and I'm sure you do too, where they're saying, oh, I already have the outline. Like, lady, I got this dialed in.

Yeah.

And then I look at, I'm like, you have the beginnings of an outline, but there is some structures that you can put in place and do that work ahead of time and it will pay off in the end. And you won't get into Kajabi and be like banging your head against the wall. Yeah, yeah.

One of my favorite things about online courses is there's zero fluff. I mean, I'm from an education background. I was originally a primary teacher and then I did adult education and used to run workshops and events and do that sort of thing. And there's so much fluff in there. There's so much padding. But in online programs there's zero fluff. It's get stuff done. This is how I can get you from A to B in the quickest, most simplest way.

I love that. Yeah. And I think our students are really in tune to that and they won't accept anything less. Yeah.

Like, don't waste my time.

That's right.

They're busy people. Get to the point, get me what I want, what I need to learn and leave the rest. Exactly.

You touched on before, you mentioned that it's hard to move people through. And actually, just because everyone's bought the course doesn't mean they're going to complete. What tips have you got to keep people engaged throughout the course and give them. Because the only way we really grow is to have people complete, get that result, get that transformation and tell their friends. How do you encourage people to move through and do that?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think we don't talk about this enough either because I think, listen, what don't we talk enough about? But marketing is so important. Getting them to actually buy the course and enroll. But when it comes to making sure they're across the finish line, you have to think about stick efforts.

Right.

How do you get them to stick and make it through? It's not just about subscriptions month to month. You also want to think, if you have a six week course or an eight week course, how do I make sure they make it through through the eight weeks?

Right.

So stick ideas could be simple as emails and dripping out emails like once a week or on a Certain cadence and you're reminding them why they should be inside the course. You're reiterating the promise to them. Like, this is why you're here and this is why you're going to get through this content. You could also give them surprise bonuses. Like that's another piece that I love. Like, hey, check out the site. Cause we want to get them into. So we are both big fans of Kajabi. So I'm always saying you want to go into your members area of this. I put a surprise in there or this little tidbit of content or I did an extra Q and A for you guys. Like you guys had some questions, I went ahead and answered them off the cuff. So surprises, the emails. I love certificates or doing things upon graduation and maybe teasing those. Maybe you do some contests depending on the size of your course and the size of your audience. I think just having that top of mind along with all these other pieces, which I know is tough. If you're listening right now, you're like, this lady's crazy. There's so much to remember about course creation and marketing and there is, but trust me, it is way easier to sell to an existing customer. We all know the stats. Than to sell to new. To acquire new customers. You want to create raving fan students so you can sell to them again and again. I'm a huge fan of that. I'm sure you are too, Tina.

Yes, absolutely. And I use a lot of automated emails.

Oh yeah.

Both ones that go out. Yeah. Well, I have ones that are like time based that go out every week but then also lesson based. So when they finish something they'll get the email going. Yay, you did this. Like if they just did something, then hit reply and let me know how you went with that so that you can have that engagement in there as well. Which is going to be dependent on how many people you've got in your course. If you've got thousands and thousands, you maybe don't want to have that. But it's still good to have some automated stuff happening.

Absolutely. And there's different levels like depending on who's listening right now and what kind of course you've got. And then think about that accountability piece too. So like I, a lot of us have communities. I really recommend communities in terms of with your course, setting up accountability partnerships or how are you checking in with them. That goes a long way. In terms of your course again, it goes back to how big your course is. Right. And how many students. But don't discount that piece yeah.

What are your views on? Because one thing, like, I'm going to segue a little bit here, but I love that because we are in the same industry and do the same thing. And I was talking to someone the other day and I go, I'm interviewing Dana, she's such a superstar. And someone said to me, she's your direct competitor. And I was like, meh, meh, there's plenty of fish in the sea. We can do all that. And I love that. And I love that we can get to put both our brains together and go, all right, this is how we do things. How you do things. Like horses for courses. It's so good. Anyway, so the take I want to get from you is video length, lesson length. Because I've seen a massive trend like when I first started in online programs and people would do their lessons that were like 90 minutes long because more time meant more value. And now I go, ain't nobody gonna sit down and watch your 90 minute lesson. What's your kind of take on lesson length?

Yeah. So I think it goes back to a bigger question about who is your course? Who is your course?

Right.

What's your course type? Like what are. Goes back to your promise. And then because of that promise, who's your student? What's your course type? Do you want shorter videos, longer videos, big PDFs, big meaty PDFs or what? Is that right? But for me, and I remember those 90 minute videos, and I'll tell you what, I bought a course a couple months ago and it was like three 90 minute videos, wasn't chunked at all, wasn't organized or categorized. I'm like, no, I just left it alone. I'm like, I am not going through this because somebody did not take the time to break this down for me. And I'm a big proponent. So most of our students and our done for you clients, I would say on average do 8 minute videos. So I'm a big proponent of 5 to 8 minute, 5 to 10 on the long side, and then having some nice downloads to go with it and implement. And don't be afraid to say, like, here's the foundation, now go do the worksheet. You know, they've got to, they've got to figure it out for themselves. You've set them up with the knowledge now, now they can go do it. So I would recommend that 5 to 10. And trust me, I saw those longer videos, Tina, and that was not fun. Those were not good times.

I also find like a lot of the a Lot of. Because I cater mainly for women and so a lot of them are watching videos while they're at the kids sporting events and that sort of thing and just plugging into their phone and watching them and if they're matching, that's why.

Audio is so great too, right?

Yeah, yeah.

And having the companion audio like that's such a low hanging fruit piece to have in your courses.

Yeah.

So but I love that they're watching at their kids games.

Yeah. Because they're like, you know what, I got another 10 minutes, I'll just pop that one on and be able to, to be able to do so good.

That's so smart. I love that.

Yeah, yeah. The Kajabi app, it's so good.

It's so easy.

It's so easy. Okay, so we've talked about teaching to action steps, which I am a massive fan of because I think you know so much that I used to say was, was all of these, all of these courses in going and you know, you get to the end of them, you go okay, that was a heap of really fabulous information.

But now what do I do now what? Right.

Yeah, yeah.

That drives me nuts.

Right.

If there's nothing to like then take me to implement.

Right, yeah.

So I think, I think sometimes people are a little afraid of being too simplistic. But I find if it's really clear and concise and we've got like dot point, here's your action step and there's no thinking around really help to move through and to get that result is that, do you find the same thing?

Yeah, absolutely. And I think you're absolutely right that people think it's too simplistic. And what I always say is you are a black belt. Let's keep this in mind folks. Taking your course, your new students are starting out with like a little white belt or yellow belt.

Right.

And they're just starting out and they don't know anything or they know very little.

Right.

Depending on what kind of course you're putting out. So you've got to start from the beginning and you've got to keep it simple then. Right. And then just give them the action steps to go along with it. But I absolutely agree with you. We try to get too advanced, we're trying to over deliver.

Yeah.

I think a lot of times I find with course creators and you don't need to do that.

Yeah, yeah. It's a, I mean it's lovely that everyone wants to over deliver too much, but I know, I know that was like I run a Membership. And the biggest mistake that I made in the beginning was I gave so much information and I actually had a couple of people leave because it was too overwhelming. Totally over delivered. And you don't want to turn people off by, you know, plants die if you water them too much.

Yeah, you don't want to over. You're right. A confused mind doesn't buy an overwhelmed head. Like, does not get through a course. Yeah, clunky way to say that. And I will refine that for the future.

That was so profound.

I'm trying to drop. I'm trying to drop the memorable lines and it's just not happening yet.

We could use clubhouse lingo. You just dropped knowledge bombs, Gina. So with course delivery, how do you help people distill whether they should be doing face to camera, whether they should be standing with a whiteboard, whether they should be sharing on zoom? What are your preferences? And how do you get people to really decide? Okay, when you've broken it down and you're like, okay, here's your five minute segments that you're going through, how do you present that?

Yeah, that's a great question. And that to me is part of the fun of course creation people. Some course careers think I'm nuts when I say that. Like, none of this is fun, Gina. But I think it's sort of fun. I think it's so fun because it's open to you.

Right.

And there is no book on your course has to be this way. And I think that's a really good myth that everyone listening right now. I'm sure Tina has mentioned that a million times, but there is not one size fits all with course creation. You create the course you want to create. Create that works for you, that works for your students. And you go, so that could be live, that could be direct to camera, that could be audio with slides. So I always like to ask, what's the transformation? First and foremost, what's our promise? How are we going to get there? What does that look like? And then what serves your student and what serves you? So I've got a course creator right now. She does college counseling for college admissions back in the States. And as you can imagine, there's a ton of layers that go on with college admissions. Way more than when I was a kid. Okay, so way, way more. And we're going to do some direct to camera intros. We might do the whole welcome introduction, right. Direct to camera. Then we're going to do. Because there's a lot of heavy, like in depth information, some slides with audio, we're going to do a couple of interviews, like with different. Like a prep testing prep company or like an essay company. So we'll sprinkle those in. But always positioning her as the expert. And then a lot of it's going to be like slides with audio. So don't be afraid to do a mix, but do what works for you and your student.

Yeah, totally. I have, like, my members, they say. I say two things all the time, and one of them is all the things that you've got to do. All the things. It's not just one thing that's going. And the other one is. It depends.

Yes, I know. Which is a lousy answer. And no one likes that. Right.

I know it's frustrating, but it is very much, you know, you. When. When people are asking me about launching or people are asking me, you know, all the different sorts of things, and you go, I think people are getting a bum steer when they say this is the only way to do it. This is the best way to do it, because what's best for you may be very different to what's best for somebody else. And you've got to be able to.

I 100% agree. And you and I are similar in that we do. We custom counsel or custom advise folks.

Right.

We believe one size doesn't fit all. There's not just one way. So we help you figure out what's right for you.

Yeah, Yeah, I love that.

I love that. Yes.

See, this is why I like it so much. Okay, so my other question that I want to ask you is production quality. Now, you're obviously working with some, like, super successful bigwig kind of people, but for the average person that may be starting on a budget, how important is production quality to your first course?

Yeah. And we work with a range. You're absolutely right. For our done for you clients like we do, we did a course for Juliana Rancic and Jason Kennedy, you know, so we worked with Tracy Tudor for Million Dollar Listing. So we've got some celebrity clients that do amazing productions. Obviously, Tony had great productions. However, we also have students who DIY it. And I'm a big fan of minimum viable product. Mvp and setting up your phone, getting a decent light. A decent. To me, it's about. And I'm sure for you, lighting the shot.

Yeah. Say that line again. We've just lost your Internet a little bit.

Oh, sorry. You're thinking about focusing on three pieces. If you're doing a DIY direct to camera, it's lighting your audio and then Framing the shot. So with lighting you can get. Everyone has a ring light. Now you get some natural light. Make sure you're front lit. Maybe you want to be a little side lit.

Right.

For your audio, making sure you've got carpet down, hopefully in a carpeted room. You know, test out different spots and then frame. Don't shoot on like a prison wall background, you know, please don't do green screen or anything like that. Just frame the shot with a nice. Like you've got a bookcase rocking out right now and you've got this like cute gold palm, like tree in the background. That's lovely. So that's it. Don't worry about the rest.

I love that you said don't do green screen. Because I have seen so many people use it and I'm like, it's so dodgy.

It's 2021. We're not doing green screen, guys. No, let it go. I love it.

Okay.

And then just go. Because I've seen. We've had the students who get hung up on it, like, oh, should I try this backdrop? Like, no, just go. Yeah, done's better than perfect.

Yes. Because you can always. This is the thing, like, it's always moving. You can always. And this is why I also like short segments. If you're only doing the five to ten minute ones.

Yes.

You know, if you want to redo something, if information changes or you, you know, you had a cold when you were recording on it, it's very easy to go back and redo it later once you've started to get some runs on the board.

I absolutely agree. And I always say start in the middle.

Right.

So wherever you're doing, if you've scheduled a couple of days to break up your course filming, start module three. Don't start at module one and you'll get one go back because you, you'll get. You'll work your wiggles out, you'll work out the nerves. And then by the time, like on your day two or day three, you go back to the beginning when you want to be on because they're seeing you for the first time.

That's very clever. I've never thought of that before.

Yeah, so we always do. When we do film shoots, we always do like the introduction to module one last or like in the middle when. Or if we see a course creator, like, oh, they're in the zone right now. Let's do the intro.

Yeah, that's actually really clever. The linear brain in me would really struggle with that.

Yes.

But I can see why that's so valuable. Yeah, that's so good. Okay, good tip. All right. I want to ask you about your course because you're course is launching next week. Can you tell everyone all about it?

Yes, yes. The six week accelerator. So we're talking about one size doesn't fit.

All right.

And that's what the six week accelerator is all about. It's working with me live over six weeks and getting your course done. Now it could be a starter course or a focus course. And I am bossing you around, giving you the steps and teaching you and then you have milestones and homework that you have to, you have to complete each week and I'm checking in on you and you're working with a very small, tight knit community. So I love this program because, well, I love to boss people around, but I love to see folks get to fruition in just six weeks.

I love it.

It's a great program.

And is it? It's for people that haven't done a course before. Brand new.

Yes. And either people who have done the course before or I have people who want to uplevel their cores, who did it, did it on their own.

Right.

And did a valiant effort, but are ready for the next step to make it a little bit more sophisticated and really want to walk through how it works. And there's a, there's a marketing component as well, Tina, to help them launch or they want to have that sense of launching those folks.

Yeah. Fantastic. All right, I'll link to all of those details down the bottom. Gina, you did drop knowledge bombs all the way through.

Yes.

Thank you so much.

Gorgeous.

It was so good to talk to you again.

Thank you, Tita.