How to pitch yourself as a podcast guest - interview with Christina Lenkowski

Hello, Christina. Welcome to the Her Empire Builder podcast.

Hello, Tina. I am so, so excited to be here. After listening to this podcast for years, I am just completely over the moon to be a guest on this podcast.

I'm so excited to have you here too. I mean, you are a member of Her Empire Builder as well. So you've got a sidetrack. And I go, it's always more fun interviewing people that I actually.

You kind of have that instant connection there, you know, for sure.

That's it. Okay, so today we're talking all about podcasts, which I absolutely love and think that they are such an incredible resource to people. I mean, it's always mind blowing to me to go, you know, you used to have to spend the very small amount of like $30 to get a book with everyone's IP and do all of that, and now you can just get it all on podcasts for free.

Yep, exactly. And you know, the other thing just being. And I'll dive into this a bit, but with podcasts, you know, being a guest on podcast, you really get to share your story. You get to do that a lot more than you get to do in kind of some more traditional, like, old school media methods that people think of. You really get to tell that story, have a call to action, and it's just a great way to up your visibility.

Yeah, completely. So what I want to talk to you about today is because I know so many people who run online courses, you know, podcast is a great way to get publicity and exposure. What does that publicity mean to you?

Yes, this is a great question because I ask people all the time, you know, if I hop on a discovery call with someone or something like that, I'm like, what do you, what do you think publicity is? And that's not to seem holier than thou. That's not because I know and they don't know. That's not it at all. It's just that the answers are so incredibly varied. You know, some people are like press releases. You know, some people are like a thing they do on Mad Men. I really don't know, you know, something that only celebrities do. So, you know, I kind of have heard the gamut of answers. And so I just always like to break it down for people in that publicity is a part of your marketing, and your marketing falls into three pillars, and that is earned, owned, and paid. And so, you know, paid is shocker. Anything that you pay for. So social media ads, or maybe an influencer campaign or something like that, owned are the channels you own. So your social media channels, your newsletter, your website, et cetera. And then earned is what I focus on, which is that's what publicity falls into. That means that you have not paid and you are getting media coverage from a third party party. So it's not something that you own, it's not something that you have control over. But, you know, they're talking about you or they're talking about your product or whatever it is.

It's my favorite part of publicity.

Well, and it means a lot more to people in a lot of ways. Like when they see you get coverage or they hear you on a podcast, in a lot of ways, they're going to be more interested than if it's just a cold intro to you. You know, they've kind of gotten to listen to you, they've heard you. One of the ways I talk about pr, kind of an example I have. Tina knows I'm a chatter. So I'm just gonna go into all these examples here. But, you know, one of those is that until I was way too old to think that this was the case, I thought that award shows, like awards, were just a matter of people being like, you're doing a great job. Here's an award. And then I realized, oh, you apply to an award and then you're judged on said award, and then they decide if they're going to give you that award. And in a lot of ways, that's how you should look at publicity. Publicity doesn't just fall in people's laps. It's not just a matter of them being like, oh, you've been doing a great job with xyz, like, let's put you in a feature, you know, in our magazine or something like that. You know what I mean? It's very much you pitching yourself out there, you know, being judged to a certain extent and then them deciding, you know, if they want to bring you on for a certain amount of coverage in front of their audience. Yeah, so that's kind of a way.

That I like to go and get it. I mean, it's. Yes, it's something that I, you know, people comment with me all the time and going, oh my gosh, like you're here, there and everywhere. You're just out. People don't call me up and go, hey, can you do this? Can you do that? We are constantly sending things out and pitching. And I think that's, you know, it's why I wanted to have you on today is to really illustrate to people that it's, it's active but the return from content marketing is so much higher than that paid advertising in terms of trust and credibility and return on investment. So how. Because you've traditionally, for years and years, worked in the whole publicity arena, and now you're really doubling down on podcasting. Talk to me about how that journey has happened and why you're so passionate about podcasts right now.

Absolutely. It's kind of twofold. One is that I launched my own course in early 2019 that was called the Media Pitching for Destinations Masterclass, because my kind of area of expertise for multiple years was tourism pr. So that's what I focused on. And so I launched this course and I did what all the gurus. Not Tina, though, because I've taken your course, not you, but other people told me to do, which is put money in ads. And that's how you will get people into your course. And that is not how it went for me. Even though I taught publicity, you guys, I didn't even do it for when I had this course because I was like, oh, well, I don't know. This is a new way of doing. I guess I should just do this and, you know, go for it. And so I put kind of an insane amount of money into this and didn't. I mean, definitely some people came in 100%, but not this huge amount. And a lot of them weren't my ideal customer. So what I started doing, what I started doing, you know, kind of at the beginning of this year, was putting myself out there as an expert and really pitching myself to some podcasts. And the response I got was amazing. I had people buying from me that had never heard about me before. I had people that were then reaching out to me saying, hey, I heard you on xyz. Really loved what you had to say. Are you also interested in maybe being a speaker at our event or something like that? I kind of had these opportunities open up. And so that was one is I just saw the difference it made in my business, like, firsthand. I was like, wow, this is really growing what I'm doing. Then secondarily, the opportunities are mind blowing. A quick stat for everybody out there is there are 1 million podcasts, 1 million podcasts out there and growing every single week. And not only are they out there, they're getting listened to. Yeah, you know, they're getting listened to.

I have with people. I had someone the other day say, well, there's so many now. Is it really worth doing a podcast? Because can people actually listen to them? But the way people are consuming media People don't want to listen to the radio. And now it's podcasts.

And yes, it is podcast. And they, when they find one they like, they binge it. Yeah, they found one they like, they. And I did that when I found yours. When my friend Ross told me about you, I down, I downloaded one and I was like, oh, I like this. And then I binge multiple, you know, other ones. So I know that it happens. I still see sales from things that I did six months ago, three months ago, because I know people are, you know, listening to them and going for it. There is absolutely a place for your voice, you know, if you want to be a podcaster. But on the flip side of that, as someone who wants to be a podcast guest, it means that there is so much opportunity to get on podcasts.

Yeah. And so with that, because, I mean, I know being a guest on a podcast is one of the best conversions that you can get. And like you said, it allows people to get to know you to a different audience, and then the opportunities are endless from that. And so I know as someone who hosts a podcast as well, we get pitched to every day, and so I know the people like what they have to write to get us to take notice. And what ones are, we're like, bum, bum, straight away. What is your advice? With so many pictures flying around left, right and center, how do people get noticed?

I think that there's a few ways. One is actually show that you've listened to the podcast.

Yeah, right.

I can't even tell you how big of a difference this makes. Like, I truly will listen before I pitch anything. I'm going to listen to at least one of their podcasts, but usually more than one, even if I don't listen to the whole thing. Because maybe it's not something that's necessarily applicable to, like, what I do, but I want to see their general format and I also want to connect in some way with them because the first line in my pitch is always some kind of connection.

Yeah.

So, you know, they don't know me. You know, they don't know me from Adam. Like, I got to give them some reason that, like, hey, I loved your recent, you know, podcast on xyz. Yes, that really spoke to me because, you know, I, you know, I actually wrote a pitch recently and they had had an episode about why you procrastinate. And it was like a totally a perfect time, perfect, you know, place type of thing for me to hear. So when I pitch them on myself, was able to say, like, hey, I just listened to this episode, and I really loved this nugget.

Yeah. And it's so simple, and it does sound so obvious, but it is amazing how when people go, you know what? I want to be on a podcast, and they just send it out to 50 different podcasts and just insert name of show here, and you can tell they have no idea what it's about. They have no idea. Like, it's so simple, but it's no one. Everyone will just delete what you send if you don't do that one simple thing.

Yeah, yeah. If it's just like, dear Tina, I like podcast, period, you know, and then go on like, okay, cool. Yeah, no, it's. You definitely got to take a little time. You got to do some research if you want to be successful.

Yes.

You know, that's. That's what it's going to take. The other thing that I. That I, you know, kind of recommend is that, well, I have two things, so I'm just trying to decide which one I want to say first. We need them all. I know, I know, exactly. First and foremost, you need to think about what podcast hosts want. So we just spoke about creating that connection. But. And I'm sure Tina can attest to this, but what podcast hosts want are people that are doing a service for their audience. Okay. So you're giving actionable content that the audience can act on quickly, or I mean, necessarily quickly, but they could. They feel like they can go and use that information and take it from there. And so that's a big thing. That is kind of a mindset shift for some people, because I think they go into it thinking like, oh, well, I just need to pitch, like, what I like. Well, this is what I do, so this is what I should pitch. And it's like, well, for the podcast host, that's. That's not maybe the best fit for their audience.

Yeah.

Now, there are a lot of ways that you can tweak what you do to make it a good fit for their audience, but just always be thinking about that, number one, that you need to be thinking about their audience, because that's who they are thinking about.

We always look at it with the lens of going, you know, how when we get a pitch, is this going to add value to the people that.

Are listening to us?

Because for us, we do a podcast to provide value to our customers, and that's really the main thing that we're looking for. So if you can illustrate that. I love the ones like, I've got some before where it's kind of like, this is the value, being so explicit about it. This is the value provide to your listeners. Dot, point, dot, point, dot point. And I'm like, oh, fab.

I love that. I mean, and those are the kind of pitches that I bet you paid way more attention to than the ones that don't do that. And the other thing, and I don't know if you find this true, but for me, at least when I pitch nine out of 10 times, they're going to choose one of the topics that I pitch. So that is also something to keep in mind, is like, don't rely on the host to come up with an idea for you. You need to be coming with two or three different ideas. Like you said, a dot point, a bullet point in there that they can kind of go, oh, that one looks cool. Maybe that one's not the best fit. That could also be a really cool one. You know, just. Even if it's just one sentence, you know, one or two sentences, but something that can catch their attention quickly is going to be something you want.

That is such a valuable part of the pitch. Because I do know. And, you know, everyone's busy, so if you can make it really easy for a podcast host to go, oh, okay, that saved me a whole heap of work. You can talk about this, this, or this, and you can provide this, this, and this value. Easily done. Here's your bio all attached. Like, it's all. Yeah, the easier you can make, you're gonna have.

I'm literally just giving it to you for you to take. And that way, you know, since I've been in publicity for, oh, man, 15 years, I can tell you that all the work I've ever done, the things that I've been successful in, is all about making it easy for the media. So whether that was a TV station, whether that was a magazine, whether that was a podcast, whatever it is, the easier you can make their job, the more success you're going to have.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. What else should be in that perfect pitch?

A couple credibility markers. So this is something that people get really up in their head about. And I am here to tell you that every single person listening to this podcast has credibility markers. I have about 12 that I go through with my students to kind of break it down, you know, to get some. But I did write down a little note of some because I wanted to say this to your audience because I know that you have some badass people that listen to this podcast, and I want them to know that, like, you have to put a couple credibility markers in that pitch. Just so that the host. It doesn't have to be anything big, it doesn't have to be anything fancy, but just so that host knows, like, oh, this is someone who knows what they're talking about.

Yeah.

And it doesn't need to be that you've been in business for 15 years and it doesn't need to be, you know, that you've received coverage on the biggest publications on the planet. That's not it at all. Some of the ones that I had written down because I didn't want to forget. I mean, it could be a training or education that certainly, if it makes sense with what you do, that's always great. But it might be results you've gotten for you or your clients. Like, that's a big one, too. You know, people get kind of get hung up, I think, on, like, well, I don't have a degree in xyz, but. Well, you don't necessarily need that. If you help 100 people lose 100 pounds, like, that's something that you totally have as a credibility marker that you can put on there. Past media coverage that you've done or maybe an online summit that you've been on, people kind of overlook those sometimes. They don't think about them. That is absolutely a credibility marker that you can put on there. If you have your own blog or podcast or YouTube channel, that's a credibility marker. There's so many other opportunities. But I just want people to think a little bit outside of the, like, oh, well, I haven't made a million dollars and I don't have this fancy degree, and I haven't been doing this for a really long time. That's not really what a podcast host necessarily cares about. They want to know that you have one or two things that are credible, you know, and I guarantee that you do, and then that you're coming with a couple awesome topic ideas and that's going to be enough for them.

Yeah, exactly. And I do think that's 100% true. Like, it's not, you know, I've been pitched by people before that. It's like, I've got 20,000 followers on Instagram that, you know, that'd be great for them to share the podcast episode and get exposure to the audience. But what they're talking about, I actually didn't think they had credibility on the topic.

Oh, interesting.

They were a little famous for different things, so I'm more likely to choose people that I think, you know what you are a subject Matter expert on what I want to add in terms of value and in terms of education to my audience. So if you can illustrate that and really focus on your level of expertise, that will get you further.

It absolutely will. Then having. That's why I'm always like. I talk about imposter syndrome and publicity a lot because people get very worked up, you know, about feeling like they're not enough of an expert, that they're not the person that should be talking about xyz. And what you just said, I love, which is so true. It's like you, you know what you're talking about. And when you just. If you have one or two of these credibility markers in your pitch, it's just going to show someone else really quickly that you know what you're talking about.

Ye.

You know, so that's where that is.

Yeah. Okay. Anything else that we need to put in a pitch?

I mean, you. I feel like I'm really like giving people a lot of stuff I don't want to overwhelm. But you mentioned the. I think that this is a great one.

We're forming connection. We've got our suggested topics. We've got our credibility markers and the bio in there.

The only other thing I would add is the bio that was it. Is that having a media bio, that's what I recommend having right under your signature. Just 100 to 150 words that kind of briefly explains, you know, a little bit about you. I've been asked a lot recently about a one page. Like, do I need to have a one page when I pitch? And I'm telling you right now, no. And I'll tell you a few reasons why. One is no one likes to open up attachments from people they don't know.

Yep.

So I don't send a onepage ever when I pitch. If, if I end up, you know, if a podcast host asking for that after we've already had a first discussion, like for me or for a client, I'm happy to send that.

Yeah.

But don't get, don't get worked up because I have, I have seriously had multiple people say this to me recently that they haven't started pitching because they don't have a one sheet. And I'm here to tell you that you don't need to have a one sheet.

Yeah.

That's not something that you have to have to have.

Yeah. Okay, great. So when it comes time to. Okay, so someone listening is like, you know what? I'm going to be a podcast guest. I'm going to do it, which we want everyone listening right now. We want you to do that. So say, like, is there a certain number that you'd suggest people to start out in going for in pitch?

Like, how many to pitch?

Yeah. Should you fire hydrant out to everybody?

Well, I would say no in that regard because like I said, you need to be doing a little bit of research with each one. But I think that if you started out honestly with pitch, your first five that are a really good fit for you, like, they have your ideal customer as your audience.

My head five, which is we're just on the same way.

We're just on point. No biggie. We're just connecting. But yeah, I think five is a good place to start. And, you know, don't be discouraged if it doesn't work out. You know, those first five, if you've got solid topic ideas and a solid pitch, like, there are a million podcasts.

Yeah. Yeah.

Trust me, you'll find some other ones. So. And starting small is good. Trust. That is a big thing.

So start with that five. How do you distinguish that out of the million podcasts? How do you pick which five you're going to start with?

I really do. So here's one way that I kind of have this podcast piggyback strategy is what I call it. But this is a hot tip. I don't normally share this, but I'm going to do it because it's Tina. Yeah, that's kind of a hot tip here, folks. But one way that I like to do it is take someone who is. Who has a similar ICA to you. Like, maybe it's a competitor, you know, maybe it's just someone, you know, drop that into Apple podcasts or itunes, Spotify, whatever you use. See the shows that they've been on.

Yeah.

And then I actually go into those shows and I'll scroll down to the bottom to the youe might also like or the podcasts that are similar. And I will actually, that's. To me, that is a gold mine of information because I already know that this audience is interested in what it is that I had to say. So if I can find some podcasts that are kind of similar to that one that my, you know, competitor was on and pitch myself to that, that's a great thing. So that's kind of one of the ways that I look at it. The thing is, is you won't know how many downloads a podcast has.

Yes.

So you're kind of just going based off of, you know, whether you feel like this is A good audience for you.

Yeah.

Because the fact of the matter is, I always give this example, but let's say that a podcast that you find out they get, because this happens to me, people are like, well, they only get 50 downloads. I don't really know if that's worth my time. And I'm like, okay, let's look at this a different way. If someone called me and was like, hey, I'm gonna put you in a room at an event in front of 50 of your ideal customers, is that interest to you? Where can I book my hotel? Like, I would be on that flight. I mean, maybe not right now, but you know what I'm saying? Like, getting in front of those people, you know, to talk. And that is what you get to do as a podcast guest. You have their attention. They are listening to you. They care what that host has to say. So they care what you have to say. So don't get caught up in the numbers. Just find what seems like a good audience.

And that is so true, because I know. I know when I've been a podcast guest before, there's some occurrences where I'm a guest on one that has really, really big numbers, and it hasn't necessarily, like, tweaked much in my business. And then I've been on one that was, like, really small, but has, like, super engaged audience, and that's been the one that was better. So you can't always tell from the numbers.

It's.

Yeah, yeah. It's getting your right audience.

I love that you said that. I love that you just said that. Because I think that's. I think that that's very true. And a lot of times the case.

Yeah. Okay. So if people are going to do this for the first time. I know I spoke to a client a couple of weeks ago who did this, and she's like, tina, oh, my gosh, it was so embarrassing. I went on, I have never been so nervous in all my life. I didn't know whether my sound was gonna work. I didn't know when she was a guest.

Sorry.

First time. And she was so crazy nervous. So say. I do think a lot of people procrastinate on sending out pictures because if they're successful and everyone says yes, then you've got to show up and be on five podcasts. And if you haven't done that before, that can be really super scary. So what's your advice to people on, like, if you're just getting started on getting into being a guest on other people's podcasts, to try and get yourself comfy.

Totally. First thing goes back to what I said. Start small. Because the first couple that you're on, you're gonna be nervous. I mean, you're gonna be nervous on everyone. Like, I'm here I am with, like, my mentor on a podcast. Like, of course I'm nervous. Right. Like, that's what's gonna happen. Okay. But that's why starting small is very helpful. Like, I was just with one of my clients last week, actually, and she had just finished her second podcast in her, like, peanut. Guess the second one. And she was like, oh, my gosh, that was so much better than the first.

Yeah.

Because I just felt like I actually knew. Like, I just kind of knew what I was talking about, knew how to get into the groove of it. So that's why starting small is. Is so good, because you can kind of get a little bit of those nerves out in the first few.

Yes.

And that's going to be same of you sending picture pitches. The first few you send, you're gonna be like, oh, my God, I don't know if I can do this. Like, this is like, what if they say no? What if nothing happens? You know, dah, dah, dah, dah. But after you do a few, it'll come so much easier. And that's how the interviews themselves are as well.

Yeah.

The other thing I would remember is the reason you're doing this is because you are an expert and people want to hear what you have to say. The thing I love about publicity and why I love what I do in helping other entrepreneurs get more publicity and get in front of more people is the impact that has just down the road, the ripples that it has. Like, when I help this, you know, this client who I have one client that's like a clarity coach, like, helps people get, you know, clarity around their ideas. When I get her on a podcast, I know that she's going to impact so many more people because of what she's telling them, what she's saying. Everyone's nervous to get and be podcast interviewed, but just know that if something really horrible happens, it can always be edited out. So you're. You're good there. But I don't think that anything horrible is going to happen. You're going to be totally good. People want to have a conversation. You know, you're essentially just having a conversation, and that's a way to look at it.

That's the way I think it works much better. I mean, I wanted to ask you this question around Preparation for being a guest on podcasts as well. And I imagine you and I will actually have different answers on this one, but I want that because I want to kind of talk about why our answers would be different. So when you're going to be a guest on a podcast, what sort of preparation does that look like for you?

Is this because you saw my casual notes?

So Christina, when we came on, you know, she's standing up, which is great because that gives you a really elevated sense of energy and then has like double sided typed notes, which I love.

I'm such a nerd. So I do prep for my podcast. Absolutely. You know, based on what I'm pitching, I kind of have a core amount that I have like a Google Doc that's like, okay, here's what publicity is here. Like, kind of a few things I like to talk on on most podcasts. So I make a copy of that for, for me personally, I make a copy of that for each podcast I'm on and then I go in and personalize it to that particular podcast. I always listen to one of the podcasts before, like literally the day of the interview. So I listen to Tina's on Pinterest. It was very good. Earlier today, I actually didn't know that much about Pinterest, so I found it very interesting. Yeah. But, you know, do that on the day of because I just want to be able to look at like, okay, what are some of the questions that she might ask? What is the kind of flow that, you know, the podcast is probably going to go in? So even though I have these double sided notes, I don't necessarily go off of them. It's just like I'm not reading them. But I think for me personally, writing it down beforehand and thinking about it just makes it lot easier when I get into the, into the interview, for me to be like, okay, I've already thought about this today. So here we go.

Yes. Yeah. And what I found is some podcasts that I'm a guest on, some of the hosts will actually send me the questions in advance and some don't. So I never do that. I never send questions in advance because I like to see where the conversation goes. And I always have questions written out, but they're never the exact questions that I end up asking. And then vice versa, when a podcast host sends me the questions they're going to ask, I never read them.

Really. Oh my.

And this horrifies most people, but I.

Wanted to talk about, I'm just like, wow, good on you. Okay. Yeah.

Well, here's why. Is when I first started doing, like, coming on as a guest on other people's podcasts, I would get the questions, and I would write all the answers to the questions because I wanted to nail it, and I had certain things that I wanted to say. And I think it takes a certain amount of skill to be able to read something and not sound like you're reading.

Oh, for sure. Yeah. Yeah.

And so I sounded like I was reading, which made it super boring. And so if I tried not to read it, I would then try and memorize it, and then I'd screw it up, and then I'd be like, oh, my gosh, I just missed that part. And this whole thing, instead of sounding like a relaxing podcast, sounded like question, answer, question. And I was just like, this is not coming across well. And I found for my style, when I relax and just trust myself and trust the process, I can come up with the better answers on the spot.

Yeah.

But it takes, I think, a lot of it is working out what works for you. So I would, like, if people are sending you questions in advance, have, like, a couple of dot points, maybe. I wouldn't encourage people to write the answers. What do you do when you get questions sent in advance?

I kind of, just, like you said, I will write out, like, maybe a few words based on that. Like, I'll be like, okay, I want to make sure I hit on this. This one thing, and maybe this one thing. But I don't write out my whole. Yeah, honestly, for me, it's more of listening to one of their podcasts. Like, that really helps me a lot more than I think anything else for me, because then I just feel like, okay, I'm very, like, I know what I'm getting into, if that makes sense. Like, all right, this is the situation I'm going into. I'm prepared for it. I absolutely think what you said is true. Like, you have to just figure out what works for you.

Yeah.

And for some people, that is going to be writing a lot out. And then for other people, it's not going to. For me, it's writing it out. But then when I have the conversation, I just have a conversation. It's just getting those. Those things in my head before I.

Usually do have one sentence written out. That's something that's, like, not profound. But, you know, that sounds kind of cool because I know that to promote the podcast, most podcasters will pull out one quote to be able to put on a social media tile to do that. And so I Which I know through doing my own podcast and putting feeds through transcript services. I very rarely speak in complete sentences.

Any of us. I mean. Yeah, yeah.

I'm amazed at how often we as humans actually cut ourselves off mid sentence and switch directions. And so I always make sure when I'm a guest on a podcast, I say one sentence that someone can easily go, oh, there's the quote.

That is such a good tip. I've never even thought about that.

Yeah. So do you want to give me your profound sentence now?

Hold on.

Yeah, Podcast pitching is.

No, I mean, you know what? I will give you my profound sentence because here is what it is. Podcast pitching or I shouldn't say that. Yeah. Going to move forward. Guessing on podcasts is absolutely one of the best ways to go from best kept secret to go to expert in your niche.

Amazing example.

Believe it.

Yeah. Social media tile. Boom.

Yeah.

Because that's what people are going to share and that's what I'm going to share when I promote this episode with your name on it and with all the branding. And that's something that's going to get shared around. So I love that. Yeah. Awesome. Okay, now I want to ask converting into customers. So there's a whole lot of people that will put all this effort into going on podcasts, into doing all of that, but actually don't, you know, they'll talk to me after and go, you said go on podcast, but it hasn't made any difference at all. How do you then convert that into customers?

That's the great question, you know, is like, it's great to be on podcasts, but what is this actually doing for my business? And so, you know, the thing that you just need to remember that I try to remember when I do this is like I'm always going to have a call to action at the end of any podcast that I guess on. So that is a big thing that I tell my clients and my, you know, soon to be students is when you're, you know, imagining what you're going to pitch to, you need to be thinking about that call to action. Like, is that a freebie? Is that a discovery call? What is it that you're driving people to? Because when they come to your site, they're going to be a warm lead, they are going to have listened to you, you're going to have upped that know, like, and trust factor. So at least hopefully, otherwise, I guess they're not going to be on your.

Page ever to look you up again.

Yeah, exactly. They're like, no thanks. But, you know, you just want to make sure that you have that call to action ready, and that just depends on what your particular sales funnel is. But the point of what I'm saying is, know what that call to action is and be prepared to have that funnel start essentially the minute that you're on a podcast. And for some people, they have, like, a landing page that they essentially direct all podcast interviews, too. And I think that's a great. A great plan because you can keep it updated with stuff over time. Or, you know, if you. For some reason, if you're like, no, I'm just kind of like, Instagram's my thing. Or I'm just more big on social media. That's my. And that's fine, by the way. Then just direct people to, like, your Instagram account because that's where you go and start that funnel with them there. You know, I think the main thing is just being like, I. At the end of any podcast, you need to be saying what the next step is for listeners.

Yeah. Because everyone will set that up for you. Everyone, when they're interviewing, will say, so how can people find out more about you? Or something like that? So you've got to be prepared for a good answer. And I do think this is strange because we're talking about it while doing it, but one good thing that you have done going throughout is you've mentioned my students a couple of times. You've mentioned my course a couple of times. So that is what our good friend Colin Boyd calls infusion selling. And it's something that you should do every time you're interviewed is be able to plan in there so that people are listening, going, actually, I know I can go deeper with this person. Like, already you're thinking, okay, I'm listening to this. And if I want to go deeper and I want to start pitching to podcasts and I want more details and I want to up my publicity, you know, Christina has that on offer for you because she's mentioned it a couple of times, and that's what you need to do all the time. Yeah.

Yep. That's a great thing to point out to people is just kind of. Because I will do that a little bit. Like, not be blatant in the middle of the interview, but just drop in those little things, like, yeah, of course. Coming up. Or my students or my clients even, you know, or that type of thing. Just so people know, like, oh, okay, so she does private work too, you know, that type of thing. Absolutely agree.

Yeah, completely. Okay, so I've got just a couple left. So talking about yourself. I know most of the time we're going on podcasts to talk about something specific with expertise, because a lot of them are around knowledge, but occasionally we're doing the ones. And you mentioned at the beginning that podcasts give you a chance to kind of illustrate your story. How do people get over how do I frame this question? So a lot of the objection that I get from people when they go on podcast is, I don't want to talk about myself. How do you frame it for your clients to kind of get them over that fear?

I think that that's a great question. I think just like I kind of spoke about earlier with the. The credibility markers, it's kind of the same thing. Like, yeah, people get really. They don't want to do that. They don't want to talk about themselves all the time. I don't get that, because I could talk about myself. I'm just kidding. I'm totally kidding. But, you know, I do understand it, and I think that the way that makes me feel more comfortable about it and probably makes other people feel more comfortable about it is tell your story, but then blend it into how you help that ideal customer. Like, what it is that for me, it's like, hey, I did this course, and it didn't. Like, it didn't work for me when I did it the way that I was told how to do it. So I finally started, you know, I went in this new direction of pitching myself to podcasts, and that's where I started to see all this success. So it kind of takes it off of being on just me and what I've done and kind of more into that. Like, essentially, I'm really bonding with that ideal customer because they're probably like, hey, I've done it. Like, I've launched my course and only did it this way, and it didn't really work out, and I want to know how to do it differently. I mean, it's almost like when you write Facebook ads, how you can't, like, say, you kind of have to tell your story and not say the way that you can help. It's kind of more of like, this is what happened to me and what I learned.

Yeah, Beautiful. All right. I think that gives a really great basis to start, and that gives such a lot of amazing information, and I thank you so much for being so generous.

You're welcome.

So where do you think, like, someone's going, all right, I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna get off my Podcast. Now I'm gonna hit stop. I'm gonna open up, I'm gonna start. What's the first thing?

Other than joining me in my course? No, if they, if they truly. Honestly, the thing that I would say to start out with is figure out what podcast your ideal customer is listening to. And the way that I recommend doing that is just asking your ideal customer. And people are always like, that seems really obvious. And I'm like, I know, but you would be surprised at how few people do it. So whether that's even you just putting a poll on social media, you know, or saying what you know, what do you have in your earbuds? That's a great idea.

I'm gonna do that.

What are you listening to? And you know, or you can even put in an e newsletter, like, even as a P.S. like, hey, just hit rep, let me know what podcast you're into, you know, and you don't necessarily have to frame it as like, I'm doing research. You can just frame it as like, I'm always looking for new podcasts.

Yeah.

So what is it, you know, that you guys are listening to? And the beauty of that is, you know, your ideal customer hangs out there.

Yeah.

So that's kind of a very low hanging fruit way that I recommend being like, that's how you can get started in this journey is figuring out where your ideal customer is. And this is a really easy way to find out.

Yeah. Awesome. Okay, so I love having you as part of our Hermpire Builder, mastermind all the work you do and seeing you grow from strength to strength. And I know you have the best program to offer people. So if they want to go deeper with that, where is the easiest place to go?

The easiest place to go is publicitybychristina.com and that's publicity xchristina.com cause I'm just super clever and so that's what it is. And I'm sure I'll share it with Tina so she can have it in the show notes. But we have a brand new podcast pitch checklist that just came out which is a free download available for anyone to get their hands on. And that'll take you through the pre pitch, the pitch and post pitching. Yeah. So that's a pretty awesome resource to get yours.

And can they get that just straight off publicity by Christina?

Straight off publicity by Christina up at the top. And there'll also be a pop up available for them to grab that if you're interested in more private work. Because some people, you know, that's kind of what they prefer is to have me do the pitching on their behalf. You can also at publicity by Kristina, book a discovery call, just a 15 minute call and we can chat if that seems like it would be a good fit, you know, for us to work together. Other than that, I'm on Instagram, I crack myself up with my stories like on the daily. So feel free to come on over. And that's just the publicity by Christina as well. But yeah, I love what I'm doing and I truly think that every single online entrepreneur has opportunity in the podcast space.

Absolutely amazing. Thank you. I've even got tips there for me that I'm going to do straight away. Absolutely incredible. Thank you for sharing so much value. You're amazing.

Thank you.

Thank you.