Heroic Interview: Choose the Life You Want with Tal Ben-Shahar

You're listening to choose the Life youe Want, an optimal living interview with tall.

Ben Shahar and Brian Johnson. Hi, this is Brian. Welcome back to the Optimal Living Interview series. Today I'm thrilled to be chatting with Tal Ben Shahar. Tal is one of the world's leading positive psychologists. He's also one of my favorite teachers. We chatted a couple of years ago now at least about a couple of his earlier books, Happier and the Pursuit of Perfect, which has since changed its name. But love the book. We've covered both with Philosopher's Notes and today I want to talk about his most recent book, which is a few years ago, but fantastic. Choose the life you want and also explore some other fun ideas that are kind of cutting edge in positive psychology. Tull, I appreciate you taking the time and I appreciate all the great work that you do and have done.

Well, thank you, Brian. It's great to be back.

Fantastic. Well, let's jump straight in. Choose the life you want. All about choices. I would love to hear your thoughts on just from a high level. I like to ask our authors, why did you choose the name choose the life you want. And then we'll drill down into some of my favorite ideas.

My first two books were about the big choices in life. For example, in Happier I talked about the choice of work or the choice of a partner. And these are obviously very important choices that impact us. But then I also thought about the fact there are many small choices, day to day choices that make a very big difference in our life. For example, the choice I make right now, whether to be present, mindful or not. I have a choice about whether to be grateful for what I have. I have a choice in terms of whether I decide to bring positive energy to this interview or to any interaction life. And these are smaller choices. They're not life defining choices necessarily, but they matter a great deal. And the metaphor I think about is each one of these small choices is like a brick that we lay down and when you add them up, you get a road the path of your life. So this is what this book is about and it's about 101 smaller choices, yet very important choices in terms of creating our life's journey.

Yeah, that's fantastic. And I love that vision of the brick by brick by brick we build our paths. I'm not sure if it was the number one idea, but it was my number one idea in the note. Choosing to choose as kind of that meta most important choice. Can you tell us about that? Sure.

So if you think about Many of the choices that we have in life, many of them are what I've come to call rhetorical choices. Meaning just like we have a rhetorical question when the answer is obvious, you also have rhetorical choices where the choice is obvious. For example, let's say the choice is between being nice to other people and being not nice to other people. Well, obviously, you know, we want to be nice to other people. Or if the choice is to be grateful for the important things in my life or to take those things for granted, well, it's a rhetorical choice. It's obvious that I want to be grateful for the things in my life. So the main point here is not what do I choose out of these two possible options, but rather, do I choose to choose? In other words, am I aware of the fact that I have a choice at this very moment in my life? Because very often we forget. And the first choice, therefore, is the one that I choose to choose between. The sometimes rhetorical choices that I have in my life. Once I'm aware of the fact that I can choose that, I'm ready to make the rhetorical. Right. Obvious choice.

That's fantastic. Just to drill down that for a moment, what's the best way that you've discovered to cultivate that kind of ability? To choose. To choose.

Yes. Here comes. And this is an idea that I'm actually working on a lot now to develop, and it's great, perhaps even deserves an entire book in and of itself. And that is the idea of reminders. We need to remind ourselves that we have a choice. We need to remind ourselves to choose to choose because we know it, we understand it, we know the importance of it once we discuss it, and yet we so often forget that we have a choice. Now, what does this reminder look like? This reminder can look like a screensaver on our screen. You know, this reminder can come in the form of a daily email from Brian reminding us of a certain choice or certain choices that we have. You know, this reminder can be, you know, one of. One of the ones that I use wearing a bracelet. You know, I often wear a bracelet to remind me of a particular choice that I want to make in my life. For example, whether it's to be mindful, whether it's to be kind to the people around me, whether it's. It's to take a deep breath. So having these reminders again in the form of a daily email, a screensaver, a picture on our wall, a bracelet, whatever it is, having these reminders is critical.

I love it. Please write that book. That's great. You've mentioned kindness and being nice more than once already. You know, it's kind of the rhetorical choice of, do I want to be nice to this person or not? One of the ideas I was intending to do a little later, but we'll jump to it now, is the Golden Rule. And in our last chat, I think we talked about the Platinum Rule and how you adapted the Golden Rule such that we're nice to ourselves just as we would be nice to others. But in this book, you delineated being nice to those we're closest to. Can you tell us about that? Because I think that's such a powerful idea.

Yeah. You know, again, this is a. You know, when you ask someone, is it important for you to be nice to the people close to you? Again, rhetorical question. Yes, of course. And yet, very often we take the liberty of not being nice to others because we feel so comfortable there. You know, sometimes we come home, we're in a bad mood for whatever reason. We often take it on the people who are closest to us. And this choice is about reminding us that even if we are in the throes of passion for one reason or another, even if we are in a bad mood for one reason or another, let's keep in mind that these are the most important people in our life, and we should be nice to them just as we are nice to strangers. Because, you know, we rarely just, you know, if we're in a bad mood, take it out on a stranger or on an acquaintance. But we so often take it out on people who are so close to us, and that could be kids, parents, a partner or whatever. And we need that constant reminder to be nice to them, to be kind to them. You know, the number one predictor of happiness. And this is something I talk about in my. In my first book, and it's research that has been replicated time and time again. The number one predictor of happiness is the quality time we spend with people we care about and who care about us. In other words, our nearest and dears, the people closest to us. And each time we are kind to them, nice to them, generous toward them, we generate a lot in the ultimate currency, in the currency of happiness. And unfortunately, the opposite is also the case. When we hurt them, not only are we hurting them, we're also hurting ourselves. The relationship so powerful.

And just to state it explicitly, because I think it's so good, you say, I therefore propose a slightly modified version of the Golden Rule. Do not do unto those close to you what you would not have done unto others who are not so close to you. Such a great reminder to use that word, of the power of it, because it's so easy to, as you said, kind of, you didn't quite say, take it for granted. But that basic idea of intimacy which allows for more negativity than is necessary. I love that idea. Let's kind of bounce around and I want to hear your thoughts on the five minute takeoff. I studied procrastination more since I read this book, but that was one of the first times I saw that idea of such a powerful way to conquer procrastination. Can you tell us about that and the research behind it and all that good stuff?

Sure. You know, this is one of my favorite and one of the choices that has made the most difference to my life, certainly my professional life. And here it goes. So, you know, most people in the world classify themselves as procrastinators. And by the way, for good reason, because most people procrastinate.

So.

And putting off things when, you know, when they're really important, putting off things that we care about and that matter, why do we do that? So, in fact, there is a lot of research. You know, as you also mentioned in your notes, there's a lot of research on procrastination. One of the main things that procrastination researchers identify is a real misperception that procrastinators have. And here is the misperception. The misperception is that in order to do something, you must really, really want to do it. In other words, you must really be inspired. You must really have the desire to do something in order to do it. In other words, inspiration needs to proceed. Action. Now, this is a misperception. This is an illusion. This is wrong. What the researchers are showing is that in fact, the opposite relationship is usually true. In other words, it's not that inspiration must precede action, but it's usually that action precedes inspiration, meaning first act, and then later the inspiration will come. Now, the reason why most people procrastinate is because they believe, well, I first need to be inspired in order for me to act. But if instead they said, well, let me first act, even if I'm not inspired, even if I don't really feel like doing something, even if I'm not in the mood for it, let me first act. And if you start acting and using the words of the researchers you employ, the five minutes take off, you say, I'm going to just do this for five minutes. See where it takes me usually after five minutes, and if not after five, after 10 or 15, the inspiration comes and you're into it and you're experiencing flow and then it's already self reinforcing. Action needs to proceed. Inspiration.

That's so good. And that was. Sorry, go ahead.

Yeah. And you know, Brian, and the reason why I said earlier this has made a big difference in my life. You know, I love to write. I get up in the morning and it really is my passion. However, I must say that most days I do have this pull, you know, to go back to bed or, you know, so just I'm going to spend the whole day listening to music or just reading, you know, which is great. But if I really want to write something, big picture want to write something, but in the day to day don't feel like it, I need the five minute takeoff. And I use the five minute takeoff more often than not, actually. And then more often than not. In fact, Almost always after 5, 10 or 15 minutes I'm in it and before I know it, I experience flow and three hours have gone by.

It really is surreal. I mean, when I started consciously using this on those days when it just, you know, some days you need to move through a little barrier and you kind of get going. And some days it's just, you just have zero desire to do it that way. On those days in particular is when I'm most blown away by. I just had nothing in my mind that I, you know, I just either a little tired or just, you know, just didn't feel like I had anything, you know, good that was going to come out of doing the writing that day. And it's just bizarre how you literally 10, 15 minutes into it, you kind of wonder what the heck happened. You can't even remember the state you were in to begin. That idea of action preceding inspiration is so cool, so powerful. I love Chuck Close's. I think it was Chuck Close who said inspiration is for amateurs. You know, the pro just shows up. And it's really refreshing to hear you say that you, having written and done everything you've done, continue to have that need to just do the five minute takeoff and you know, that sense of common humanity that nothing's wrong with us if we're feeling the procrastination bug. It's just a matter of doing the right thing and choosing to choose right.

Exactly. That's another example of choosing to choose again, a rhetorical choice nevertheless, one we need to be conscious of.

Yep. And again, those bricks, brick by brick by brick Day in and day out. You don't build the road, then run up and down it. You got to keep on building it in front of you day by day. Right? Yeah, that's cool. Let's. Let's go down the. I was going to ask you what your. One of your favorite studies was that most impacted your life. You answered that in one context, but I'd love to ask the question again. What's your. What's a study that may or may not have been part of the book that most transform your life?

Well, let me share with you a study that is currently most transforming my life. And it's a study that I've spoken about in previous books. I also talk about it in choose the Life youe Want. And that is a study by Daniel Wagner. And the study is very simple. It's. He talks about what he calls ironic processing. Specifically, his original study was about asking people not to think of the white bear. Don't think of the white bear. Don't think of the white bear. And of course, what do people think about a white bear? And he brings it up in the context of repressing rather than express experiencing painful emotions. And, you know, this is the idea that again, I talked about in previous books, but also talk about it in choose the Life you want, the idea of the permission to be human. In other words, the permission to experience a full range of human emotions. Now, if I say to myself, you know, don't be anxious, don't be anxious, don't be anxious. I'm going to be more anxious, say, before I give a lecture or before an important meeting. Whereas if I don't fight that white bear, metaphorically speaking, if I just say, okay, well, I'm experiencing anxiety now. Big deal, means that I'm human, then paradoxically, that anxiety is going to dissipate. Now, the reason I bring this up again, this is something that I've talked about for many years. I feel that I've understood this idea at a deeper level over the last few months. And a lot of it is thanks to the work that I've been reading about acceptance and commitment therapy. This is not new. This has been around for decades. But for me, delving deeply into it has been a new experience. And what they talk about there is that a lot of the things that we do in life to, say, overcome anxiety or to overcome depression, they bring about change, but only temporary change, what they call the honeymoon effect. And instead, what we need to do is fully accept, and they mean fully accept, our painful emotions. Again, whether it's deep sadness or fear that is anxiety. We need to accept these fully, and only then do we transform our experiences. Now, to accept these fully means the following. Here is a distinction that I've been thinking about recently, about the distinction between pseudo acceptance and real acceptance. What's the difference? So if I accept my anxiety before giving a lecture, but actually I'm really accepting it because I say to myself, you know, tal, accept your anxiety so that you can be free of anxiety when you go in front of an audience, that's not real acceptance, that's pseudo acceptance. Whereas if I say to myself, no, really, it's fine. If I experience anxiety, it really is fine. And I truly accept the fact that that it's human to experience anxiety. Now, the anxiety may go away as a result, but if I truly accept the fact that it's fine even if it doesn't go away, that it's real acceptance as opposed to pseudo acceptance. So in acceptance and commitment therapy, this is the kind of acceptance that they're talking about, really accepting and working through and living with the anxiety. Because we all have anxiety at some point or another. We all experience deep sadness at one point or another. And the more we accept it, the more we are able to take appropriate action. So, yes, I may experience anxiety and yet still choose. And here's where the choice comes in. Choose to continue and lecturing, because that's really important to me. You know, I may feel very upset and angry because my boss said to me something at work. And yet I accept this anger fully and choose to behave generously and benevolent toward the important people in my life.

When I go home and I choose to make it okay that I experience these emotions. Right. And that kind of permission to be human. I love that phrase as well and reminds me of Kristin Neff's phrase of that self compassion. Right. Of common humanity. And we're not alone in this, which is how I used to struggle more than anything was I thought something was inherently wrong with me, that I had the anxiety or the fear or whatever it was. So what a beautiful thing. I'm wondering, you touched on it kind of in general terms. Are you comfortable? And can you think of a situation that you actually, like, help us walk through, like what you did when you were experiencing that?

When I experienced whatever sadness or anxiety. Sure. So how about I take something which happened very recently? So just a couple of weeks ago, I received a letter from a publisher. So I have an idea for a new book I am very, very excited about. But it's a unique idea. And there is one particular publisher that was just perfect for this book. And I asked my agent to speak with them and was in touch and they said they're very excited about your idea. Just put a proposal, a couple of pages together and we'll run with it. So I spent a whole month just getting these two pages down because I thought it was very important. I really cared about it and I sent it to my agent who really liked it. Everything seemed to be going great. And then about two weeks ago, I received a letter from them. Thank you very much that we decided to decline now, especially given the fact that I had such high expectations that I thought this was a shoo in. I was very disappointed. And what I did then, you know, I mean, the it's now of writing, the reading about acceptance and commitment therapy, you know, I said to myself, okay, I need to really, really accept it. And you know, I really accepted it and. Or I thought I really accepted it and the pain didn't go away. I was thinking about it constantly and I was there the next day and the day after and I said, how come it's not going away? I'm really accepting it. And as soon as I said that I realized, well, no, I'm not really accepting it. So I went there and I wrote about it, which really helped. I kept a journal. I'm a big believer in journaling and I also teach about the importance of joining. So I wrote about it and I wrote why I felt the way I felt and I meditated thinking about it and I experienced the experience and I talked to, especially to Tommy, my wife, about it. And you know, I went through the, you know, quote unquote grieving process and you know, for a few days I was there. And then a few days after a few days it did go away as it usually does, and you know, collected myself together and said, okay, so I'm going to go for the next publisher and apply. I started to take action. But, you know, here was an example. There are many worse examples in my life and in most people's lives. But it's very fresh in my mind because it was only a few days ago that I just let myself experience the real disappointment of not getting what I wanted and what I thought was basically a foregone conclusion.

That's fantastic. Thank you for sharing that. Super helpful. And again, yeah, permission to be human.

But Brian, I want to add something with your permission, please. So, you know, after I received the no from the potential publisher and my wife saw me and saw how disappointed I Was she said to me, you know, Tal, I don't think your students have an idea of just how many times you hear no's or how many times you fail or how many times you experience disappointment. Because, you know, what do most of my students see or what do most people see who know what I do? They see the books. They see the successful books or the website or the lectures, and that's a success. They don't see the time and time again when there are disappointments and nos and failures and. And all the components of a full, and I will add, fulfilling life. Because these parts are important. And the reason why, first of all, I'm glad you asked it and the reason why I decided to talk about it is because I do want people to see these parts. They are an inevitable and an important part of any life and certainly of a happy life.

Gives me goosebumps as you're describing that for a number of reasons. First, it's just so refreshing. And it's just. It's that it's, you know, Brene Brown's vulnerability and authenticity and just again, that connection of, oh, okay, wow, we don't want to share stories like that, but yet we want to hear stories like that, right? And it's just such an empowering thing. And then the fun part for me was that I felt that your story was such a perfect segue into the next idea I wanted to hear you talk about, which you started talking about, that I want to go into in more depth, which is the Failure hall of Fame and that choice to be willing to embrace mistakes. And it's the same thing to highlight a little bit of my story as well. People look at me and they think that I do what I do, and it's all one straight line up and to the right. Just awesome. And it's all of the pain, all the challenges that I still have of focusing on what do I really want to do, what's really my dharma? What's my purpose? Is it doing this or is it doing. And that's a healthy, present level of challenge that exists for all of us and obviously all the other little bumps in the road that come. But I really appreciate you sharing, and congratulations on your initiation into the Failure hall of Fame. Tell us about that. I want to hear you explicitly talk about the process versus they just see you writing books. They don't see the process of all the nos that you go through.

You know, one of my friends who's a professor at business school, she has a whole class around failures, so she brings in CEOs who don't talk about their accomplishments and how well they do and how they increase shareholders value and all their great accomplishments. You know they're accomplished, we all know that. They come in and they talk about their failures, failure after failure after failure. And the class, to me is a much more realistic depiction of a CEO's life, or for that matter, of any successful life. There are no shortcuts. One of the things that Dean Simonton has shown in his work on the creative genius is that whether it's in arts or whether it's in the sciences, the most successful people throughout history or those who have failed the most, we've had the most duds in terms of artworks or had the most failed experiments. And therefore, because there is no success without failure, because failure necessarily precedes success, I think we should go to the root of fame or success or happiness. And the root is failure. And therefore we need to have the hall of fame for the most failures. Because there is a direct link to the most successes. There is a direct link to the happiest, even at the level of a relationship. The work of John Gottman, which you talked about. John Gottman talks about how it's important to have conflict for a healthy relationship. And there's no need to look at conflict as terrible signs of doom. On the contrary, the lack of conflict, the lack of relationship failure should be taken as a sign of doom. The lack of failure as an athlete, as a business person should be looked at as problematic rather than the other way around.

So good. I think it was in happier. Maybe it was Pursuit of Perfect where you told your student, go out and fail more. Didn't always receive the most warm response. But it's that paradoxical truth, yet it's still challenging to experience that. Yet that's exactly where the growth occurs and kind of that idea of flourishing vis a vis just being happy all the time, to allow that full spectrum and the inherent challenges. Which leads us to the final idea I have in the note, meaningful endurance. You talk about the root of the word suffering, endurance in patience, in Hebrew. Can you tell us about that meaningful endurance?

Sure. So you know this is an idea also that's presented by David Schnarch, one of my all time favorites in his book Passionate Marriage. And he talks about similarly to what John Gottman talks about, about how important it is in a relationship to go through hardship and difficult. Other people talk about, like Warren Bennis, talk about going through a crucible, a defining experience. And again, whether it's in Starting a business or cultivating a relationship. Now, the point here with meaningful endurance is that if I know that while I'm in the midst of a crucible in a relationship or in the midst of a crucible. In the business, then if I know that this is necessary, necessary for the growth of the relationship, for the development of the business, then immediately that very difficult experience becomes more meaningful. And once it becomes more meaningful, then I'm more likely to endure, to continue to fight for the relationship, to fight for the business. I'm much more likely to have the energy and the strength to do it. In the words of Friedrich Nietzsche, the German philosopher, when you have a what for every how becomes possible. When you have a what for every how becomes possible. You know, if I get up in the morning and say, this is really important for me, then even if it's difficult, then I'm much more likely to go for it. It's much more likely to make me resilient, strong, and to continue.

Meaningful endurance again. We can talk about all these ideas forever. I would like to hear your thoughts on one more subject before we wrap up. Strengths. You talk about the importance of focusing on strengths. Can you tell us about that and why it's so important?

Sure. So there's a common misperception, and this was identified actually by Peter Drucker half a century ago. But it's only more recently that we have the research to back up his assertion, or rather observation. The common misperception is that if we want to really improve, what we need to do is focus on our weaknesses. That's where we get the most bang for the buck. That's where we get the most return on our efforts. Focus on your weaknesses and that's when you'll get a lot better. Well, it turns out that even though most people think that most people are wrong, and they're not just a little wrong, they're very wrong. It turns out that if you study the most successful people, they are strength focused. They, for example, ask themselves, where do my talents lie? What am I best at? Or the very least, potentially best at? And then they focus on these areas. And, you know, in sports it makes sense. You know, I'm five foot six and a half. You know, my strength is not to be a, you know, a power forward in basketball. It would be ludicrous of me to go, you know, this is my weakness, being a power forward in basketball. But, you know, I'm still going to invest a lot of effort into it and do it. No, that would be a mistake. But you know, if I say, well, actually I'm very fast and you know, I can dribble quickly, then this is where I should invest in as a basketball player. The same at work doesn't mean ignoring weaknesses. In the words of Peter Drucker, we need to manage our weaknesses and focus on our strengths, and we get a lot more done. We get a much higher return on our efforts if we spend most, not all, but most of our time cultivating our strength. Not to mention the fact that we enjoy ourselves more and that it's a lot more motivating and enjoyable. Now, having said that, we, and I'm repeating this because this is a misunderstanding that many people have about the strength based approach. It's not about ignoring our weaknesses. It's not about just going for our strength. It's about spending more of our time on the strength and again, managing our weaknesses to the point that they're not a hindrance to us in exercising our strengths.

Yep. Make sure they don't kick you in the butt is kind of how I like to phrase it. And, and then I think it was Tom Roth who said, double down on your talents. The strength finder concept of every time, you know, what is it you're great at? How can I love to hear a specific example from you of how you identified and now focus more on your strengths? Can you share one?

Yeah, sure. So my top strength in the various strength finders that I take, and there are some great tests out there, is the love of learning. This is my passion. This is what turns me on, and I use it on a regular basis. But I remember a particular time when I was teaching a positive psychology class, and I'd already taught it before, but, you know, I was very busy teaching, and I was also very busy teaching elsewhere. And I started to feel tired, enervated. I wasn't passionate, as passionate as I usually was in teaching a topic that I care about a great deal. And I went back to my strength and I said, okay, my number one strength is love of learning. And I've been neglecting this strength. So what I did, I put down 30 minutes, not more 30 minutes aside a day to exercising this particular strength. Love of learning. What that meant was going on and hearing a podcast for 30 minutes, watching a TED lecture, reading a book for 30 minutes, something new that I was studying. And those 30 minutes had a trickle effect, as they often do, had a trickle effect for the rest of my day. And suddenly my passion for learning, for teaching returned. Why? Because very often I was introducing as Part of my lecture, even though it's a lecture that I delivered six months earlier or sometimes a week earlier, I was saying no, just this morning I read about this and it brought freshness into my teaching again. And it affected my overall experience, of course, improved the quality of my teaching beyond the fact that it made me happier.

That is awesome. Which is a happiness booster, which is one of the things that you talk about in the book that we're not going to go into detail right now, but just so powerful to actually integrate your strength, engagement with being that happiness booster. To give you a little break, then just reflect briefly. One of my top strengths is creativity. And as you were discussing that, just reflected on creativity, specifically producing, like just that being in the game. It's very much a game for me to kind of see how much I can do from a productive perspective. So I slowed down a little bit at the beginning of the year to do some other business stuff. And there's literally like a missingness to it, you know, of this is when I feel most alive and that, you know, consistency and just kind of having fun, seeing if I can astonish with what I create is something that's near and dear to my heart. And it's easy for me to go chase other things that I should be better at and to remind myself, wow, this is when I feel most alive. It's my number one strength. Let's lean into that and really have fun with it. So in the spirit of sharing, I share that. And this is amazing. Tal and I could obviously talk about all these ideas for months. And Tal does check out Happier. What is Pursuit of Perfect called now? I always forget the new title, Being Happy. Okay, so Being Happy is another great book. Happier is fantastic. Being Happy is all about dealing with perfectionism, is my experience of the book. And as a recovering perfectionist, now optimalist, I love that book, Being Happy. And then this book, choose the Life youe Want Tall. You do a ton of other stuff. Happier TV sounds amazing. Tell us about that.

Yeah. So this is a relatively new project which I'm very excited about. Bringing together a lot of my ideas from the books, from the latest research, and making them accessible through short videos. Whether it's through tips on happiness, responding to questions about leading a happier life. Whether it's in the realm of work, in the realm of relationship or parenting, mind, body, and through different formats and videos, I bring many of these ideas to life, trying to make them accessible and practical.

That's awesome. So people can find that@happier TV. Is that right?

Yeah. Happier TV or happiertv.com.

Okay, great. And then they can connect with you via all your other channels and all that good stuff. Stuff via Happier tv. This is great, Tal. I appreciate you and look forward to your next book.

Right. Thank you very much, Brian. And thank you very much for feeding my love of learning on a daily basis.

Oh, I appreciate that. So can we celebrate that for a moment? You get our newsletter, is that right?

I do, every day.

When I got the note from you some time ago, literally went to my wife and I said, that's awesome. Tal's getting this. So I'm thrilled to hear. Honored to be a part of your life and again, just so appreciate everything you've done to enhance my life. I also, I didn't share with you in the email, but I'll share with the people here. I taught a class that we just released called positive psychology 101. I do a 101 series. Tal actually taught. It's the most popular class, most highly attended class in Harvard's history called positive psychology 101. I taught kind of my own version of that where I Featured my top 10 favorite psychologists of all time, starting with Maslow and Frankel and Csikszentmihalyi and Seligman and Tal. And with everybody else, I shared one idea. Like I shared Maslow's Self Actualizer and Frankel freedom to choose, etc.

With you.

I did two ideas, the happiness archetype and your beautiful description of that, and then the Optimalist. So I just want to kind of give you a high five from California to Israel on that one.

Thank you very much.

Yeah, yeah. You're amazing. And I'm genuinely and really, really excited about your next book and connecting again for another one of these chats.

Right. Thank you very much, Brian.

Hi, this is Brian. A lot of people don't know all the stuff I do beyond these free videos I share on YouTube. So I thought I'd do a quick video to give you an overview of our membership program that you can get access to and get a ton of other stuff. So here's a quick look. Ten bucks a month. Join the Optimal Living Membership program. You get Instant Access to 250 Philosopher's Notes on some of the best Optimal Living books out there. Old school classics, Positive Psychology, Modern stuff, Mindfulness, Peak Performance, purpose, neuroscience, wealth, etc. What you may not know is that in addition to the PNTV episodes, I create PDFs on all these great books. So six page PDFs. Let's take a Look at one of them. Joseph Campbell. You want to figure out how to live your hero's journey? Well, this is a great place to start. I basically pull out my favorite big ideas, riff on them, connect them to other books and other ideas and help you apply this wisdom to your life today. That's what the PDF looks like again. We have 250 of these on all these different great books. And then I record those PDFs as an MP3 so you can listen to that MP3 while you're on a walk or working out or doing some errands or whatever that is. Philosopher's Notes. A lot going on there. And then in addition to Philosopher's Notes, you get access to optimal living classes. Optimal Living 101 idea here is that all those great teachers come back to the same big ideas again and again and again. I distill those ideas into classes. Super practical, fun, inspiring classes ranging from Habits101, Confidence101, Getting Stuff Done101, Meditation101, instant access to all those classes. And then Future classes include Relationships 101, Energy 101, Purpose 101, Business Goals, etc. Those are our full length classes. And then I create micro classes. Two to three to five minute little bursts of wisdom on my favorite great ideas from these great books across the domain that you want to optimize in your life. So we have dozens of these so far. I create 50 new micro classes every month and 10 new philosopher's notes every month for 10 bucks a month. So we're blessed to have thousands of members who are enjoying the program and sharing some incredibly kind words with us. And super simple. 10 bucks a month. Cancel anytime. Would be honored to be a bigger part of your life and I appreciate your support. And here's to optimizing and actualizing.