Heroic Interview: The New Man with Tripp Lanier

You're listening to the New man, an Optimal Living interview with Trip Lanier and Brian Johnson.

Hi, this is Brian. Welcome back to the Optimal Living Interview series. Today, I am so excited to be with my good friend Tripp Lanier. Tripp is the host of the New man podcast. If you haven't listened to that yet, I don't know what you're waiting for. It is awesome. He's also one of the world's leading men's coaches, and he's got a ton of wisdom on how to help guys navigate the process of living an extraordinary life. And he just walks the talk. Just a good dude. Thrilled you're here, Tripp. Thanks for taking the time and excited to chat.

Thanks, my man. It's cool to have the tables reversed. Usually you're on my show, and so it's fun to come over and play in your house now.

So. Good. And I've met so many great people from those shows and appreciate you and all of your support and just who you are and how you embody these ideas. So I'm excited to be in this seat and tap into your big brain and big heart. So let's start with the new man. I love your frame for this and how you talk about what the new man is relative to some old paradigms. So can you just start by telling us what the new man is from your perspective?

Well, it's basically, we started out was like, well, nobody wants to be the macho jerk, and nobody wants to be the new age wimp. And, you know, at the time when we were starting out, I was like, well, okay, those will be the kind of the boundaries there. So what's beyond that? Because in a lot of ways, guys are in this place like, well, either I've got to be this tough guy, but that's not really working for me because it's not getting the relationships that I want. And I don't really want to feel like a dick or a jerk. Excuse me. And then nobody wants to. Yeah, nobody wants to. Nobody wants to be the guy that everybody walks over either. So it's about how do we have a brain? How do we have heart, but also have some spine and just be able to walk through life and be bold, to be firm, but also recognize that we do care about people. We care about our impact on others. And so, yeah, how do we. How do we bring that all together without watering it down? And. And I think that. I think the big part of it here is not about chasing an ideal, but it's really about getting More inward, like, well, who am I? Who, who am I becoming? Who who am I really? Because so many people like, well, just show me the model. I'll. Okay, show me the model of the new man and I'll just act like that guy. And that's never been what the new man's about. It's really about, well, who are you really? Do you have. It's bound bold to be yourself. It's really bold and scary and vulnerable to say, well, this is who I really am. And so that to me has been a big part of the process that I do when I work with people individually.

Well, what's wrong with that? So then what do you do? How do you help people? And how can you help guys listening to this get more sense into who they are and how they can live a life of more meaning and purpose and all that good stuff?

I think the first thing that I really like to understand where somebody's coming from right now. Where are they starting? So what's their motivation? And a lot of times they're coming from a place of needing to prove something or they want to disprove something. So they want to prove that they're manly, whatever that means, or they want to prove that they're worthy. They want to prove that they're lovable. These are all really human things. And I'm raising my hand because I've done all of this. It's one of those things that just. If I'm unconscious, I'm going to go into a. A posturing place. And so it's just good to. I want to help that guy recognize that when he's doing XYZ in his life, he's coming from a place of fear or a place of lack. And so his world can just become about proving or disproving this thing in order to be loved. And so what are you doing if you were already lovable, if you were already enough as you were, what would you create from there? And that's a great question to just start to live into? What would I do if I was already lovable? What would I do if I was already enough? What would I do if I wasn't afraid of what I thought others would think of me? Well, then, well, gosh. Well, I'd probably do this or I'd probably do more of that. And that's where I like to start with people.

That's awesome. Okay, gotta go. That's great. Those are some good questions. You gotta do some journaling here. And just that upward spiral of we're Constantly refining this and just riff on that for a moment. In both our work, I know people tend to think, and I know you interviewed the Tools guys, and one of their big tools is this idea that we're going to get exonerated from all future work. So a lot of people think that you and I just have it figured out. But when we get together, we're always talking about, what's the next expression? Right? What's the next edge? And we're excited about the. Some of the foundation we've laid, of course, but there's just that beautiful embrace of the constantly upward spiraling exploration of that question you just asked. Because it's different. Literally, you can ask it every day and get a different answer. Right?

You can. And when I first heard of the spiral early on, I didn't quite get it. But I love that you brought it up here, because what I've found is that we go through these kind of cyclical patterns, and invariably, whether it's six months or a year or six years later, it's like, man, I thought I already went through this. I thought I already went through some kind of iteration of this challenge in my life. Why am I back here again? Well, it's not so much that I'm back here again. It's just that I'm in a different phase of it now. I've got another opportunity here to grow a little more. And it might be with sex, it might be with money, it might be in some terms of relationships or whatever it might be, but it's getting out of that exoneration thing. Like, oh, well, I did that. I read that book and I did that course and I'm done. And instead of just recognizing like, oh, no, here's that thing again, and I've got something new to learn here now. The way I talk about it now, it sounds all cheery. I can't pretend to act like I'm all cheery when that stuff's happening. But it is helpful to just step back. And I like to just help my guys, the people that I work with. It's like, yeah, this is the process. It's gritty and. And you're engaged in it, and you don't have to be. You could stick your head in the sand, and that's an option, too.

That's awesome. And then just to echo that, the idea of the hero's journey that you and I have talked about so much personally, and then in our chats on your podcast of just, you're battling dragons, by definition, you're entering the forest at the darkest point where there is no trail. And you're not sidestepping lizards, you're battling dragons. Now, hopefully you're doing it with more grace and more power and bigger challenges than ever before. But you're still going through that process. And there's something about embracing that that allows us to deal with it with more power.

I think so. I just look back, I think, well, I was interviewing a guy this morning and we were having this really powerful conversation about something that was really scary for him. And he'd gone through this amazing trial. If we're going to talk about the hero's journey. And he really thought that this was going to ruin his family. And he's like. Now he talks about it with, like, it's a comedy. And it was only a few years ago, but going. Leading into it, this was. He actually said he was like, I would have rather put a bullet in my head than have this conversation with my family if I thought that that would make everything okay. And it was so powerful that when we get on the other side of the trial, we get on the other side of this dragon, it becomes funny. And so I think there's some kind of. I think there's some kind of comedy here. There's some kind of story where we look back and we kind of joke around and like, oh, yeah, that thing. Adventures suck when you're having them. Right. So there's this thing of like, oh, yeah, that was really hard, but now we can laugh about it. And I just try to keep that in mind. If I'm going through a challenge, like, you know, I'm probably going to laugh about this at some point, sooner than later.

That's so good. Yeah. I remember years ago when I went to a Tony Robbins event where he said basically, exactly that. Where you're going to laugh about whatever's stressing you out. In five years, you're going to laugh about it. So why not? Why wait? What's the way? And you might still have the. You certainly will still have a level of fear and anxiety, et cetera, but to bring perspective to it just dissolves so much of the unnecessary stress to it.

Yeah. And I think there's something really beautiful about that, too. I interviewed Jamal Yogis who came on the show to talk about fear and basically how the plasticity of the brain, the neuroplasticity, and how we rewrite our memories in a different place when we have a different experience of them. So we recall the memory, we laugh about it, it gets rewritten it gets written in a different place in our mind. And I know you know a ton about this stuff, too, but there's something beautiful about that where we get to reshape and reframe our consciousness in that way.

I love it. So one of the big aspects of your work is the idea of really drilling into the limiting beliefs and patterns that kind of hold guys back. We've talked about a few different ones, but tell me more about that and what you see as kind of common, limiting beliefs and patterns in your guys and then what you do to kind of help them move through that.

I'd say at the core of it, I come back to this. I love this Einstein quote. He said something like, no problem can be solved at the level of consciousness in which it was created. And so I realized that a big part of my job is just helping my guy shift his consciousness to raise his consciousness. And I always get this thing like, we're going to climb the water tower. Maybe we'll spray paint somebody's name on the side of it. But it's like, we're going to climb the water tower, and when we get up there, we're just going to. It's just not going to look the same. I don't know how many times I'll be in a conversation with a client and just helping them see things from a different perspective. And we're going up and up and up the water tower, and then they go, tripp, I know exactly what I need to do now. And it's like, great job done. I didn't have to be the authority for them. It's just about helping them get some altitude on those limiting beliefs, and they start to see, wow, I don't have to believe that I have a choice. And when I believe that, then things look really bleak and narrow and da, da, da. But, yeah, just raising our consciousness is that big first step. And then once we start to identify these things that we tell ourselves that just don't work. Raising awareness. This is where the meditation comes in. Our journaling, just starting to see how powerful these things can be, but also that we can put a little daylight between them and reality.

That's awesome. Let's go into that. So just raising our consciousness, right? Easy to say, harder to do. How do we do that, and what do you recommend or what comes out in the work with your guys?

It happens all the time for me when I just talk. If I can hear the things that come out of my face, it's like, wow, that doesn't. That Just doesn't add up. That thing that I just said, just. And so it just helps to be able to. Well, so many of us are isolated, so just having somebody to talk to, having a friend who will just let you talk and doesn't try to fix you. But when I talk to my wife or you and I have had some great conversations, it's just hearing that thing come out of my mouth, I'm like, wow, that's like. That just doesn't fit. And underline it and say, man, where is this showing up in my life and what's the impact of that? So I think just that awareness, being able to talk to others, and even if we're still blind to it, having some people in our lives that will say, you know what? This part of the story I don't buy, and I think that's a big part of my job, is to not believe a lot of what my clients tell me that's great. Is to just hold up the mirror and say, really, what if that part wasn't true? Because I don't believe that part. And then challenge that and see if that can help them shift their reality.

That's awesome. So being willing to discuss it with people they trust and people in their lives, whether it's the other guys in their lives who they admire and respect and on the same trail, or their spouse, even with themselves. Right. Being able to actually sit down and say, look, where's the stress bubbling from? What are the thoughts? Challenge them in each of those domains.

Yeah. Without making it wrong or bad. You know, it's like, yeah, we all have these things. And I think that's the thing is we're scared to talk about this stuff. It's vulnerable, man. Life gets a lot more fun when we're willing to get over ourselves. So if you can just give yourself that chance to say, you know what? I don't have to hold on to anything that comes out of my mouth. I just let it out there and then see, do I really want to believe this stuff? Let's see.

That's awesome. And it's one of the things that you've done a great job for me in our conversations again, both personally and on the podcast of me sharing my story, that I used to stress myself out thinking that it was just me. I was the only one who had these issues going on. And that sense of the Brene Brown and Kristin Neff common humanity, that we're not alone in this and when we can. I think that's part of your new man from What I see in you and your work is being comfortable with that. We don't need to be the macho jerk who never talks about that or the flying away new age wimp who's always talking about that. But there's a level of, of connectedness to ourself and a willingness to be vulnerable with those around us. Right?

Yeah. And I think it's, you know, just thinking about those conversations we had, how the responses we've had over the years of you telling what's really going on for you, me telling what really goes on for me. It's, it's. I think what's happening is we're starting to redefine what it means to be strong because we can look at a guy and he's in, he's in the water with the sharks or he's doing something crazy like, you know, flying in a wingsuit. But then there's also the real strength of saying, hey, here's this dark period I went through and here are the things that I was telling myself at the time. Most of us can relate to that far more than being in the water with sharks or jumping off of a mountain with a parachute on. So I think that the more that, that's what I see is this slow shift starting to happen where it's like, wow, that actually takes real guts to show up and say that. And that's where we're all served when we go, oh, me too. I'm not the only one.

Yeah, I love it. All right, so we've talking kind of a little bit of purpose, a little bit of getting our minds right, thoughts, etc. Talk to, talk to us about action and, you know, the tendency for us to fall into ruts at times and what you see in your work and again, how you help people move out of any potential ruts and really take the action that are most passionate and committed to doing.

Yeah, I'm a big fan of action. Obviously, if I coach and, and more. So what's underneath that action? What's driving it? We talked about those motivations earlier. So I'm not really inspired to help a guy prove that he's lovable. I'm not really inspired to help a guy prove that he's more manly or whatever. That's just something flat about that for me. Maybe there's other coaches that'll help him with that. But if it's action that is tied to something in his heart or the impact that he wants to have on others, if it's really rooted in love, let's say, man, I can just feel that my hair goes up on end and it's like, yes, I want to help you bring more of that to the world. So action by itself can be blind and stupid, let's say. And then there's that right action. And so there have just been times when I have been. I think an old pattern for me is I need to find the right way. I need to figure I got to have the plan first. That's where I can go to. And I can tell myself, I don't know. Oh, I don't know. Well, I don't know. I don't know. And it's just like, man, just get in there. So I'm going to be that guy behind you kicking you off the diving board to get you off there and just start. Let's just start. Let's get playing. And yeah, it's scary and we don't know where to go, but let's just get started and then we'll course correct as we go. I'm a huge fan of that. And I just noticed so many guys that are imagining that their peace of mind, their relief, the love, the. The feeling alive, all of the great stuff, the fulfillment, the thriving is going to happen once they've reached some point out there, but they're always surprised to find that they experience it much closer, that they just need to engage the process and take action, as you said. I recently I put up a recording of a coaching session that I did. There was a guy that was resisting just making a phone call. And I said, let's make the phone call right now. And he was like, oh, no, I can't. He started to do his thing and he started to give me all his rules, all these reasons for not doing it. And I said, I don't care, you can fire me, but let's just make this phone call right now. And so he had to find another phone, et cetera, et cetera, and he switched somewhere in there. It was within a minute or two. He goes, this is fun. And I just want to help people see that. It's like you're that close to really enjoying your life again. If you can find, just start to take action in that way and get out of business, get out of that frantic stuff and just get into what's the next thing that would move me a little bit closer to that. And I love pointing that out to people that we can just. That the fun is right there, the enjoyment is right there. It's so much closer than we think. Wow.

So if someone was listening to that and you're coaching them, not knowing the specific details, walk us through just what you would, what you would tell them to do, to approach it with the same energy. Obviously they could basically just go do it. But would you frame it in any particular way?

I think I would come back and just say, what's the thing that would make. I like. There's two big questions, right? What's important? If we don't know what's important, everything's important. So let's come down to what's just really most important with this particular topic, or what's the thing that they're up against? So maybe it's a conversation in their relationship, or maybe it's something to do with their business, but let's just find out the thing that matters here most. So we're not spending time and action on things that don't matter. And so what really matters? Great. We've got to focus on that. And then let's find the one thing that would make the biggest difference. Maybe it's just simple as a conversation or an email, a phone call. Maybe it's taking the next step on whatever it is that you're building or whatever. And I found that if we can find that balance of we're doing what matters and we're focusing on what matters and we're doing what's going to make a difference, that that's where we find the juice and it's just that little 4% that, you know, we find that little state of flow, that little bit of stretch and it's. It's really that simple?

Yeah. That's awesome. I like it. What matters? What's the one thing you could be doing to move that ball forward?

Real simple, Real simple.

Easier to say than to do, but I like it. That's it. That's good. Simple. Not necessarily easy. But then your point about your client who. That catalyst of just do it, right? Just jump off the diving board and you're going to feel just great, right? But it's all that torture of do I really want to do it? Do I really want to do it?

Is this the right thing? I don't know. Maybe I need to sit back and figure it out and da, da, da, da, you know? Oh, it's just. That's torture. That's the suffering. That's the really painful part. And all of this is done to avoid pain. They don't realize that, you know, we, I, all of us don't realize that that's what's happening. We're creating more suffering by doing.

I love it. There we go. All right, so then let's say that whether we do that or not and life is happening, we go for it and we experience adversity, life kicks our butt. Then what do you do?

Slow down, Take care of yourself. You've always taught me the fundamentals. To come back to the fundamentals. So what can you do to recharge? What can you do to put gas in your tank? Relationships are important, obviously. Eating and feeding and all the real basics. Getting sleep. Make sure you're taking care of that stuff. First and foremost. I don't know how many people I talk to and they describe their day or their week to me, and I'm trying to figure out how they could possibly feel good. I'm just like, okay. Really? You ate like that. You didn't sleep. You watched all this tv, you didn't. You've avoided everything over here, and you're trying to tell me you don't really understand why you're not feeling good right now. It's like you. You know. So let's get those things lined up, and most of the time, that puts the wind at their back just to straighten things out on that level.

Right on. Yeah. Well, that's, again, a conversation you and I have had so many times of, the harder it gets, the deeper our commitment to our fundamentals. Right?

It is. It is. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah.

Go ahead.

Oh, yeah. I think we've just. I think we've already nailed that.

Good, good. Okay. So then, going back to fear, I wanted to ask you about fear. You mentioned Jamal in his fear project. Talk to us about fear. Your relationship to fear personally and in your work and how you frame it and how you advise us to frame it.

Well, first off, I don't think fear is bad. I think there's. I'm beginning to really understand the different nuances of fear. Now that I have a child. I just feel vulnerable to things that I never imagined that would be a big deal to me. And it's like, oh, I have this other person in her life and things that can happen to her that. So I get all kinds of different fears these days when it comes to personal responsibility. I like to frame it on the other side of what's bold and what's love look like. So there's something for me when I can reconnect with that part of me that wants to give, that wants to love. There's just moments when I've experienced with. I give myself permission to let go of who I think I'm supposed to be. And protecting and defending. And I've just tried to make more of a practice of stepping into that place more and more. And what I've noticed about that is that I give myself permission to be bold. I give myself permission to ask for things that I wouldn't normally ask for or to say things I wouldn't normally say. And I've just found that most of those fears are just shadows, like, there's nothing there. And being bold is the way that we're willing to. We start to see what they're really made of. So at the core of it, it's like, grab a flashlight and go see if there's really a monster under the bed, which is.

Yeah, it's great.

Most of the time, there's just nothing there. And so I'm a big, big proponent of, let's go see. I got the flashlight. Let's go see if there's really a monster there. And I try to create my life in such a way of, let's go see. Let's go see if it's that bad.

Awesome. Which is similar to your guy that just made the phone call. Let's go see how bad this phone call.

Bad. It goes. Yeah, that's good.

And then we realize, wow, the boldness creates strength. Right? Just this out of our comfort zone, we've got that infinite potential we're tapping into. That's awesome. All right. So then I think all of this sets us up to be healthier men, healthier human beings. Therefore, we can engage in relationship with our significant other. Talk to us about that.

That's it. Right. I don't know how many guys that come to me and say, hey, I want to help with my business, and I want help with this sense of purpose and calling in my life. And then we're about a month in. It's like, hey, I got this thing going on with my wife. And it's like, okay, I got a feeling this is what was going on the whole time. So important. Our relationships and the amount of love and our connections in our lives are just so. Everything we've talked about here today, it just comes right back to it. Am I willing to be honest? Am I willing to be bold? Am I willing to be who I really am? Or do I feel like I've got to project a certain Persona in order to be loved and accepted? I don't know how many times in my relationship with my wife Allison, that there have been these thresholds where it's like, well, I couldn't possibly be that version of me. She wouldn't love me anymore. And then I go through that threshold with her, and I'm like, wow, she really does love me. We're still here, and our relationship is stronger than ever. So just so many times I noticed that guys are at that threshold. There's something they've told themselves. This limiting belief has come in and said, well, if I were to really be honest about XYZ with her, that's going to rock the boat. And our relationship would not survive that, or she won't love me anymore. Or just something. It always sounds silly once it comes out, but a lot of us are really playing small and living small in our relationships. And of course, that's what makes them draining. So a lot of times it's like, well, let's see. Let's see what happens if you do it. We know it's going to happen if you just maintain the status quo. So let's see what happens when you can skillfully start to show up more as you in this relationship. And most of the time, it's beautiful.

That's awesome. We got that flashlight again. Don't put it away.

Yeah, keep it out. Keep the batteries charged.

All right, so we're recording this the day after Father's Day, and we'll be sharing it a little bit later, but Father's Day. So new man, new father. What's that look like?

Oh, it's awesome. I've got a little girl, and I just realized that I want to help create a world where there's far fewer douchebags for her.

So.

It's been great for me to be a father a obviously. But to have a little girl, My world is dudes. My world is guys and guy stuff. And so she's just wormed her way into my heart and into my being and informed me so much. Just informed me about my own life and I think given me permission to really own how important love is for me. And at the core of it, it's just what really matters most to me. So I think I could understand that before, but there have just been thresholds with her where it's like, I don't think I can love anymore. And then we go through it. Oh, my gosh. I didn't think I could love this much more. And then just continuing to love more and more and more.

That's awesome. Well, happy Father's Day.

Yeah, you too, buddy.

This is good, man. All right, we did a quick tour of a bunch of the themes I wanted to explore Now I want to put the spotlight more on you. We've talked about you, but tell us what you do in all the years that you've been working on yourself. And in this world of optimal living self development, what do you do on a consistent basis? We, as you know, like to call them fundamentals. But what are the things you do consistently that help you stay plugged in?

Exercise is huge. And not just, I like to get some walks in, but I also, I need to do something vigorous too. And so that's a big proponent. I just, I can always tell when I haven't exercised enough. I like things to be going well in my business. I like to feel that I'm in a good place there. If I'm not, there's a creative aspect. If I don't feel like I'm expressing myself creatively, I get into this anxious place. There's like a something's off. And so I get into this, okay, what's the thing that I'm not creating? If I'm not creating, I'm not happy. So it's finding that outlet where I can be creative that's really important for me. Relationships are huge and in so many different facets. I've set up my life so that I have relationships to take the pressure off of my marriage so that my wife isn't everything to me, that I have people in my life that I can just be bros with. I've got people in my life that I can just discuss business with. I've got people in my life that I can go geek out on guitars and surfing or whatever with. So it's great to have these different outlets where I can show up fully and connect in those ways. That's one of I can. I feel I know I'm going off the rails when I haven't really spent much time connecting with those people. And obviously meditation is a big part of it. I do some journaling every morning, but really for me, I got to play, I got to have fun. If I'm not joking. And you know me, I know something's fun. If I'm not curious anymore and I'm not playful, something is really wrong. Something's really off. I've embedded myself in fear, so it's asking, how can I play? Today is a big question for me. How can I be playful? How can I laugh? What can I create? Those are at the key. Those are really big for me.

Love it. Good stuff. Yeah, you got it going on. So looking at everything, right, it might be something we've talked about might be something. Something different. But if you had the opportunity to only share one piece of wisdom or one big idea with guys listening to this, what would you share?

It's the one I deal with. It's at the core of things for me right now, which is receiving. It's just allowing myself to receive. I've noticed that I've been able to create extraordinary experiences. I've created extraordinary things in my life. Whether it's my business or my marriage or the ability to live wherever we want, want, or it doesn't matter. But if I can't receive that, if I can't allow myself to be positively impacted by that, if I can't feel gratitude for that, it doesn't matter. It's just. It might as well just be spinning my wheels. And so that's been a big thing, is just sitting down and taking ownership of, like, look what's happening in my life. And this is amazing. And it could all be gone tomorrow. And can I appreciate it now? Can I really be thankful for it now? And I think it's. It's not just gratitude. There's a receptive part of it, too, where it's owning my part in it. And I think as a culture, we have a. There's a thing, maybe, I don't know, maybe it's my Irish background or something. It's like, you know, we deflect our part in it. There's a humility that goes in it. But I. What I've noticed, I try to help guys and help myself is like, own your greatness. Own the thing that you did that helped create this. It doesn't mean that you're bragging. It's not about inflating yourself, but not bullshit ourselves and say that you didn't create something extraordinary here. Own your part in that because it affects so much of the story we tell about ourselves if we push that away.

Awesome. Amazing, dude. Well, thank you so much for sharing. How do people connect with you? The podcast, your work? Beyond just the podcast or coaching? What's the best place?

If you're lazy like me and you don't want to go through 170 interviews, go to thenewmanlife.com that's the easiest. Thenewmanlife.com and there's a bunch of. My attempt to try and distill and make this wisdom and all the goodness that's on the. On the New man as concise as possible. So thenewmanlife.com is the easiest place to go.

Perfect. Well, again, so highly recommend the new man podcast, which you'll find linked from there, and the distilled wisdom of Trip's work. And Tripp, thank you dude. Thrilled you're in my life and appreciate you and your wisdom and your greatness and your commitment to serving profoundly.

Yeah buddy. Thank you man. I love you man. Thank you so much for having me.

Big hugs.

We hope you enjoyed this optimal living interview. Please visit BrianJohnson me for more.