Interview - Be Happy for No Reason with Marci Shimoff

You're listening to Optimize with Bryan Johnson. More wisdom in less time. Hi, this is Brian. Welcome back to Optimal Living 101. Today I am thrilled to be chatting with Marci Schaimoff. Marcy, thanks for joining us.

Oh, thanks for having me here, Brian. I always look forward to having a great conversation with you.

Well, thank you. And I have learned so much from you and your work and your inspiration. And I want to chat about some of my favorite big ideas from Happy for no Reason, Love for no Reason, and wherever else we wind up going in this quick chat. But let's start with happy for no reason. What does that mean for those of us who are those who might not be familiar with that book yet, what does that mean to be happy for no reason?

Well, most people in our culture think of happiness in terms of when I have certain things, then I'll be happy. It's what I call happy for good reason. So we want to have a great relationship and a great house and a great career and money and all these things. And those can bring us some degree of happiness. Although research is finding a very small degree of happiness is based on our outer circumstances. And what I found we all really want more deeply than anything. In fact, Aristotle said that happiness was the be all and end all of life. It was the goal of all goals. It was the reason we really wanted anything is because ultimately we thought it would make us happy. But the real kind of happiness that we are all craving is what I call happy for no reason. And it means having an inner state of peace and well being that doesn't depend on our circumstances. So yes, the markets go up and the markets go down. Our relationships go in kind of cycles. Sometimes our life is. But we can carry that inner state of peace and well being with us. And when we do, when we are happy for no reason, then instead of looking to extract our happiness from our external experiences, we are bringing our happiness to our experiences.

I love it. And again, Aristotle tells us the ultimate currency is happiness. It's why we do anything and everything. And can you talk a little bit about how the idea that happiness precedes success, that happy people are in fact more successful in every regard?

You bet. We have been taught that success is going to bring us happiness. As soon as we get that more money, that more anything, we will really have it. But science has now found that it's not true that we have a happiness set point. And no matter what happens to us on the outside, whether it's good or bad, whether we will tend to return to our happiness set point. So that success that we so want, as soon as we get it, we very quickly get acclimated to that new goal that we've just achieved, and we put out another goal. So it's like we're always chasing after the next thing, and in order to, you know, it'll never be enough. In fact, years and years ago, the world's wealthiest man at the time, oh, it wasn't Charles Schwab, but it was Andrew Carnegie, I believe. Yep. Andrew Carnegie was asked by an interviewer, now, keep in mind, he had more money than anybody. He said, how do you know when you have enough? And his answer was, not yet. So if Andrew Carnegie, the richest man at the time, didn't have enough, nobody does. It will never fulfill in that regard. But what we have found is that while successful doesn't bring us happiness, happiness can bring us more success. Happier people, on average, make over a million dollars more than unhappy people. And it makes sense, actually, because happier people are magnetic. You want to be around them. It feels good to be in their presence. So you want to do business with people who are happier. You want to go to the dentist. Who's the happier dentist? Assuming you've got two dentists, same price, same. Same real skill level, you want to go to the one that you feel good around. So happiness does bring us greater success. It brings us. We're more creative, we're more resilient, we're able to bounce back from our challenges more quickly. So it's all in all a good thing.

Yeah, those would fall into the good thing bucket.

That's right.

I love it. Well, let's talk about some of the ways that we can. We can actually practice happiness and we can embrace again some of the ideas you discuss in your book. One of my favorites. Can you tell us about the pursuit of happiness?

So everybody's heard the line in the Declaration of Independence that we have the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. But what most people don't know, and I didn't know this until I did the research, is that the word pursuit, back in those days when Jefferson coined that phrase, the word pursuit had two meanings. It did mean to chase after. And that's how we've always thought that that meant the pursuit of happiness to go after. But at the time, it also meant to practice. And what I believe that Jefferson really meant is that we have the right to practice happiness. Happiness is a skill that we learn through practice. You know, some people say to me, oh, can't you just make up your mind to be happy? And that's all you have to do, is decide to be happy. And that's not true, actually. It's the first step. But just deciding to be happy will no longer help you wake up tomorrow morning completely happy. Then deciding to be a great tennis player will help you wake up tomorrow morning ready to play Wimbledon. If you want to play Wimbledon. You learn the habits of great tennis players, and you practice those. And it's the exact same thing with happiness. If you want to be happier, you learn the habits of happy people. And happy people do have really specific habits that are different than unhappy people. You learn those habits and you practice those.

That's fantastic. So tell us about some of those habits.

Well, I found that there were 21 main habits that anyone could practice to raise their happiness set point. They fell into seven categories or buckets. You know, I know that it's hard for people to remember seven of anything, so I created a metaphor. And may I share the little analogy or metaphor that I used?

Please.

This will help you, I hope, remember the seven areas that we need to really focus on for happiness. So you think of a house. I call it building your inner home for happiness. And if you think of a house, a house has seven main components to it. It's got a foundation, it's got four corner pillars, it's got a roof, and it's got a garden. And this is how those seven areas relate to what we need to focus on to raise our happiness set point. The foundation has to do with taking responsibility for our happiness. And that runs the spectrum from not blaming others, not showing up as a victim in life, to. To also recognizing that happiness is a skill that needs to be developed and taking ownership of. I'm going to invest in that skill set because it's really what's most important for my life. So that's the foundation. The four corner pillars are the pillars of the mind, the heart, the body, and the soul. The mind has to do with do our thoughts support our happiness? And I. I have a feeling, Brian, you'll want me to talk a little more about that coming up. But let me just go through these four right now. The second area, the heart, has to do with truly living with an open heart. You know, what I found is that people who are happier really have an open heart. You can feel it around them. They're grateful, they're loving, they're kind, they're compassionate, they forgive easily. So that's one of the areas. Then there's the area of the body. Happiness is a neurobiological experience. It's not just a thought. It really has to do with our physiology. Do you have the biochemistry of happiness? The right endorphins and serotonin and oxytocin and gaba and all of those things that really create the ourselves being happy. And then there's the pillar of the soul, which has to do with feeling plugged into life, feeling really connected to the greater energy of life. Then there's the roof of our home for happiness, which is about living an inspired life, living your purpose, living your passion. And then finally there's the garden. And that has to do with who you surround yourself with. Is your garden full of roses and gardenias or are you full of weeds? The roses and gardenias are the people who are supporting you in being happier. And the weeds are the toxic people in your life that are truly draining you of your happiness. And what I found, Brian, is that a lot of people will focus on one area, maybe our thoughts and our mind, and talk about just changing our thoughts. Some people will focus on our body, you know, just have the right biochemistry. And I think all of those are important, but I really think that we need a holistic approach to our happiness set point. What I've seen is that. What I've seen is that out of these 21 habits that I talk about, most people are great at five or six of them. They're terrible at five or six of them. And then the rest, they're just kind of okay. And if they can start with those that they're really terrible at and work on those first, then they get the greatest transformation most quickly.

Yeah, I would agree. Just kind of removing those things that aren't working. Why would you say that is the case?

Well, you know, it's where you're just going to get the biggest bang for your buck the most, because it's where you're already. It's the place that's most draining your happiness right now, most robbing you of your happiness right now. So if you stop that drain, you're going to already be filling your bucket up.

Yeah, that's powerful. What are your favorite habits?

Well, do we have time for me to share a couple?

Yeah, of course, please.

And walk you through them.

I would love it.

Okay, so one of my favorite. I'm a heart person. I love the heart stuff. So for me, that's where I get the most juice. I also, for me, the body stuff was really, really important. I was low in serotonin. And I actually talk about in Happy for no Reason. I interviewed a woman named Julia Ross, and she is an expert in the relationship between our biochemistry and our moods. She wrote a book called the Mood Cure. And I incorporated her assessments in Happy for no Reason. And when I took these assessments, I found out how low I was in serotonin. And I did some of the things that she recommended for people low in serotonin. And I got a really immediate shift. So for me, that's, you know, I can't share the specifics on the line because that's going to be individual for everybody. But I will share. Let's go to one of the exercises that I do on a regular basis. I do this every day. And I learned it from a group called the Institute of Heart Math. I'm sure you're familiar with their work, Brian. They're the world's leading researchers on the heart and how it affects our health and our well being. And this exercise will move us in two minutes from what science calls the stress response to what's called the love response. The love response has entirely different brain activity, different biochemistry, different heart rhythms. So I'm going to ask everybody to do it along with us. This is where the rubber meets the road. You'll get absolutely nothing out of it by just listening to it. But, Brian, you're going to be my guinea pig. So it's going to take about two minutes. And when we're done, I'm going to ask you if you feel any different. Is that okay?

That's fantastic. I look forward.

Good. So this can be done with your eyes opened or closed. If you are in a place where you're able to close your eyes, I suggest it because it'll go a little deeper. But even if you can't, please play along. So close your eyes if you're able to. Now, the first of the three steps is to simply place the palm of your hand over your heart. Now, that simple act of putting your hand over your heart starts the flow of a chemical called oxytocin. And oxytocin is dubbed the love hormone because it's what we have more of when we feel bonded or connected with each other. So mothers who are breastfeeding have lots of oxytocin, or when we make love, we have lots of oxytocin. Just putting your hand on your heart like this is stimulating the flow of oxytocin. Now, the second step is to imagine that you're breathing in and out through the center of your heart. So you can either Picture that or you can feel that whichever modality works better for you. But just imagine that your breath is going in and out through the center of your heart. You're inhaling into your heart. You're exhaling out of your heart. You may notice that already you feel some shifts in your body, in your emotional state. Now, the third step is that on each in breath, I want you to imagine that you're breathing into your heart. You're breathing in love, ease and compassion. Now your exhales will just be normal exhales. Imagining the exhale going out through the heart. Each inhale. Imagine breathing in love, ease and compassion. And exhale normally and do the inhales and exhales at your own pace, just breathing into your heart, love, ease, compassion, and exhaling normally. You can imagine a time when you felt love or compassion, or you can just say the words love, ease and compassion and it creates that energy. So one more deep breath in, breathing into the heart, love, ease, compassion. And on the next exhale, you can open up your eyes, if they were closed, and just gently take your hand away and take a a few seconds to notice. How do you feel right now as compared to how you felt two minutes ago? That was no more than two minutes how you felt two minutes ago before we started this. So notice if you feel anything different physically, notice if you feel anything different emotionally. And since Brian, you volunteered so generously to be my guinea pig, tell us, how do you feel any different now than you did a few minutes ago?

That was amazing. To your point, the moment I put my hand on my heart, I could feel just kind of something, you know, kind of sitting in. And then as I walked through the different steps of the process with you, you can just feel, as you said, kind of that stress response to love response and kind of dropping into an even more relaxed and calm and loving and open place. Beautiful.

Wow. So what I love about this is how quickly it works and, you know, doing it one time, by the way, what you mentioned is very often what people will say. They'll say they feel calm, they feel balanced, grounded, centered. Some people have physical sensations like a warmth in their heart or a tingling in their hands and feet. And doing it once is just a nice experience. It won't create any change in your life. But here's what will create a change and what I recommend. Do this two or three times a day for the next two weeks. And what you'll find is that you start to habituate the love response. It becomes more and more your default state and that's the idea. Remember, it's this practice thing. Research has shown that if you do something 300 times, it really becomes a habit. If you do it 3,000 times, it is deeply, deeply ingrained in all of your cells. So do this three times a day and you can do this. What's cool about it is you can do it anywhere. I do it while I'm standing in line at the grocery store, when I'm sitting on the phone with people, when I'm sitting in a meeting. Doesn't matter. No one even knows that I'm doing it. And now I've done it thousands of times. And the minute my hand goes up to my heart, I feel the entire love response come over me. So that's the idea, is to make it, make it a habit like that. Anyone? Everyone. People say, oh, I don't have time. Everyone can do this in the midst of their day because you can do it while you're doing other things.

I'm on board.

I just thought of something. You like these statistics, I think, Brian. So I just thought of something I want to share with you because I think you'll find this very cool. The Institute of Heart Mass did some research. They've done lots of research, but one piece of research, they found that if we're angry or stressed out for five minutes, it can suppress our immune system for up to six hours. But if we're feeling love or ease like what we just did, if we're feeling that for just five minutes, it can strengthen our immune systems for six hours. This is like long term effects. That's why I say do this ideally three times a day. Once in the morning, once in the afternoon, once in the evening. And you got your day covered for your immune system.

That's amazing. I am sold. That was beautiful. Thank you for walking us through that.

Yeah, well, it's my excuse to get to do it.

Yeah, I know, right?

I'm selfish.

It's amazing because I do the. Often when I'm teaching, I try to. Each class do the inhale to four, exhale to six. And it always strikes me each time I do it halfway through the first breath, there's a level of just that boom, kind of really, really sinking into the moment even more and dropping into that love response.

Yeah. By the way, I just, I'm going to share with you a tool. It's free and it's my newest little toy because I'm playing with it all the time now. It's. If you have an iPhone, there's an App that's free called GPS for the Soul. And you put your finger up to the camera of your iPhone and it tells you whether you're in heart rhythm coherence or not. So you can just go to the app store and download GPS for the soul.

And this is a HuffPo. Is that.

It's a coventure with Huffington Post and. And Heartmath.

That's amazing. So is it via what? Is that how they're doing that? That's via the picture?

No, it's a. It's a finger sensor. They've devised the sensor so that when your. Your finger is up to the camera, it's. I don't know how it works technologically, but it's so cool. I've shown it to like a dozen people in the last week, and everybody's just gaga over it.

So that's so cool.

Yep.

I love it. Well, we'll see if we can put a link to that as well, so they can go directly there and so much good stuff there. I'm curious. You mentioned the 303,000 times. Do you remember where you. Can you tell us more about that and where you might have.

I'm actually being mentored in a program. Lynne Twist. If you haven't interviewed Lynne Twist, you must. She's one of the most inspiring people on the planet. She wrote a book called the Soul of Money, and she's raised more money for philanthropy than probably anybody on the planet. And I'm in a mentoring program of hers, and my coach told me the 303,000 rule. And I think the 3,000 came from Malcolm Gladwell. I don't know where the 300 came from, but I'm going to ask her and I'll let you know.

Yeah.

So cool.

Just always great, that repetition. And to your point, statistics and just numbers we can point at and just know that as we move toward these milestones and the habituation and the consistent diligent patient practice, the results that we can kind of hardwire into our consciousness. Very, very inspiring.

You know, Brian, you are inspiring me to mention something. It's a little bit off the topic of happiness, though ultimately, I don't think it is. It's something that you have just galore. I mean, you are so full of this, and that is curiosity. And you are just a constant. You are the consummate student and learner. You just want to, you know, you're a lifelong learner. And the people that I found who are the most engaged in life, the happiest are those who are lifelong Learners. I think of my mentor, Jack Canfield, who's, you know, in his. Well, he's in his late 60s and he is always in the front row of every seminar. You know, he can get to with taking notes and learning. And it just reminds me of you, and I'm very inspired by that in you.

Thank you so much. We're playing around with some more oxytocin. A big virtual hug. Well, this is wonderful. So where do we want to go? There's so many different things we can talk about.

As I told you, where you lead, I will follow.

Fantastic. Let's go back to your heart. So you mentioned that one of the aspects of the heart was gratitude. And I know this is a big part of your work. Can you tell us about gratitude, what we know about it scientifically, why it's so important?

Sure. So, you know, there's the old saying that what you put your attention on grows stronger in your life. What you appreciate, appreciates. So when we're grateful for something, we more of it shows up. It's where our energy is going. That's where we're reinforcing that. And I interviewed probably the. I think, I guess the grandfather perhaps of the gratefulness movement is Brother David Steinfelrast, who is a Benedictine monk in his late 80s now and one of the most exquisite people. He has a whole website and organization called gratefulness.org and he's a Benedictine monk. He told me how he was a teenager. I think he was a child or a teenager during World War II, and they were off and on the run. His family and his mother taught him, no matter what, to be grateful for everything. So some days they didn't really have food. They would eat grass soup, soup made out of grass. And he remembers feeling grateful for grass soup. And he just, at that early age, he really instilled this idea of gratefulness, which he says is really great fullness for what is. And he talked about how he has a practice. It's a really cool practice, unique. I'd never heard of it quite this way before, where every day he'll pick a theme for the day. And whenever he encounters that theme, it's his reminder to stop and just be grateful. So, for example, one day he might pick water. And so every time he washes his hands or he drives by a fire hydrant, anytime he thinks of water, it's his trigger to stop and be grateful in that moment, not necessarily for the water, but for whatever is right there. So the next day it might be leaves and, you know, if he ever sees leaves or sees the word leaves, it's his reminder. And I asked him how long he's been doing that, and he says he's been doing it at the time. He'd been doing it for about seven years. And I said, have you ever picked the same thing? He said, I don't think so, but I can't remember. But that's a really kind of a cool way to look at a gratitude. And actually, if you've got children, a fun way to help them use gratitude. Now, there's a lot of research on it. I'll just cite one of the researchers, Robert Emmons from UC Davis, who did a study and found that 30 days of writing down five things a day that you're grateful for, at the end of the 30 days, it will have raised your happiness set point. And one of the things that I like to add to that recommendation is that write down five things that are different each day. So in other words, at the end of the 30 days, you've got 150 things that are different that you are grateful for. And one of the reasons that this works is that research has found that our minds and I think you've interviewed Rick Hanson, he's one of my colleagues and dear friends, and I love his work. And he uses the phrase that our minds are like Velcro for the negative, for the negatives just stick to us, but they're like Teflon for the positives. The positives just slide off of us. And happy people have learned to reverse that, where the negatives are more like Teflon. And there are many, many tools out there for that that I recommend and that the positives are more like Velcro. I ask anybody, if you get 10 compliments in a day and one criticism, what do you remember at the end of the day? Everybody says, well, I remember the criticism. So happier people have learned to Velcro that positive. And one of the ways that we Velcro the positive is through gratitude. And the research has shown that it takes about 20 seconds for us to register the positives so that they really stick. Much less time for us to register the negatives. So this idea of 20 seconds, really not just noticing the good in our life, but registering it by writing it down. That's why the gratitude practice, I think, is so effective.

So great. Thank you for that great example and ways that we can apply it. Just another huge practice for us to engage in optimizing our lives, etc. Tell me about, if you can, briefly, the biochemistry of happiness. I know you're all about exercise and I think you're into Zumba these days. Is that right?

Oh, you're so good. I am. I'm Zumba's happiness spokesperson. Zumba, for those of you who don't know, is a Latin inspired dance exercise program that is sweeping the world. And the reason I believe it's sweeping the world is that listen to their motto. Their motto is ditch the workout, join the party. And what I love about this is that exercise has definitely been shown to raise your happiness level. It creates those happiness endorphins. But many people exercise doing things that they hate and I think that that's counterproductive because while you're getting the good endorphins from the exercise, you're getting the bad biochemistry from the thoughts of I hate doing this, I hate doing this. So what I tell people to do is find an exercise that you love and then you're getting a double dose of the good happiness juices. You're getting the happiness from the endorphins and you're getting the happiness from the, from the joy of doing whatever the exercise is. I recently was visiting a good friend of mine, Sarah Gottfried, who is a brilliant Harvard trained gynecologist who specializes in hormones. And she actually has a great book called the Hormone Cure that I'll highly recommend. And I was visiting with her one evening and her daughter is 8 years old and has a Wii machine, you know, the Wii TV things, and has a game on it called Full Dance, which is this fabulous dancing game. And she and I played this for an hour. And I tell you, I was just the happiest I remember being in ages. So find exercise that you love.

That's awesome. Absolutely love it. Well, we're coming up on our time here. I would love to hear some of your fundamentals. So the things that, that you've really found to help you stay plugged in. Would you mind sharing some of those?

Sure. You know, I have been a little bit of a strange one, I guess, a little bit alternative for many, many years. I started meditating when I was 16 and I've meditated pretty much every day since. So my fundamentals are, I wake up in the morning, I've done a lot of study of ayurvedic medicine, which is medicine of East India. And I start my day by doing an oil massage, a self massage, it's called an abhyanga. And it's a wonderful way to really get the body going. In the morning, I meditate, I do some Yoga or some kind of Zumba. I do this heart mass inner ease technique throughout my day. I drink a green drink first thing in the morning. I drink lots of water through the day. I try to do as much as I can, things that I love. I surround myself with fabulous people. I'm in a women's support group that is just a huge help and support to me. I do a lot of ho', oponopono, which is a forgiveness exercise that I imagine many people who are listening are familiar with. It's a beautiful, simple kahuna Hawaiian forgiveness exercise that involves just in your heart sending a message to the person that you perhaps are a little angry at or need some forgiveness with. And the message is just, I'm sorry, please forgive me. Thank you. I love you. You repeat that over and over again in your heart and amazing miracles happen. I am. See what are the other. I'm always doing some form of. If I get stuck. I'm on airplanes a lot and I have flown a couple million miles in my life and I still get really nervous when there's lots of turbulence. I'm that nervous flyer. And if this plane starts to get really bumpy, I do eft tapping. So I'm the one on the airplane that's doing tapping and everybody around me is going, what's wrong with.

I'm more worried about you than the turbulence after a while.

That's right, exactly. But I teach them people. I mean, everybody always asks me. Of course, I'm teaching like usually two or three rows in front of me and behind me. Eft. I love the Sedona method. I'll do the work of Byron Katie quite often. So for me it's a matter of having a big toolbox. I think we live in a day and age when there are tremendous tools available to all of us and I believe in learning all of them or as many as you can and then using the ones that sing to you in each moment. So those are some of my practices. I do great gratitude before I go to sleep every night. I could spend an entire day telling you all the different things.

Well, it's great too because so many of them, the 3,000 plus repetitions where it's just become part of who you are and it's not a list of things that are being checked off. It's just a way of being. Which is so deeply inspiring. Yeah, I love it. Tell us, if you had to summarize or offer one tip, what would your number one tip be? For people looking to optimize their Lives. And they can be anywhere on the spectrum of the process. What would your number one tip be?

Oh, boy. My number one tip was, would be connect into spirit. Connect into your deepest essence, Whatever you call that, you know, God, higher self, soul, heart, creative intelligence. That if, you know, I've interviewed thousands of people at this point, and those people are the people who are deeply the happiest. So whatever that means for you, whether it be spending time in nature. I take, I go into silence every year, three days of silence. And then I, you know, make sure that I do silence every day. Some way that you are connected to the truth of who you are. And, you know, however you do that, that is the number one thing, because ultimately, that's why we're here on the planet, that is why we are in a body, is to realize the truth of who we are, which is that essence, that divinity, that soul.

Absolutely wonderful, Marci. Thank you so much for taking the time to share your wisdom. And I want to appreciate your passion for life, your passion for studying and teaching, and just your energy and your essence comes through and deeply inspiring.

Thank you. Can I leave everybody with one little proverb, please?

You may leave us with whatever you'd like and then I'll ask you too, just where we should send people to connect with you and your work further.

Great. Well, I'll do that first so you can find out more about me and my work@www.happyfornoreason.com. so it's quite simple. Happyfornoreason.com and on there we have a free workbook for you that's got the happiness assessment. You can take an assessment and see where you are on the happiness scale. And it's also got 21 of my happiness practices, happiness habits in there and the practices that you do with them. So that's waiting for you on the website. And I really invite you to join in this happiness revolution that I believe is going on. And really I feel like there's a family of all of us. You're not listening to this by mistake. There's a reason that your soul was called to this. And so I just invite you to join and in that happiness tribe that we've got. And so I want to leave you with this idea. Many people ask me if it's selfish to be so concerned about doing all these practices and taking care of yourself. What about the world? My answer is that it's the least selfish thing that you could possibly do because when we're happy, we are affecting the entire planet. And so I leave you with this Chinese proverb that sums the that up and it goes like when there is light in the soul, there will be beauty in the person. When there is beauty in the person, there will be harmony in the house. When there is harmony in the house, there will be order in the nation. And when there is order in the nation, there will be peace in the world. And my prayer and my wish for each of us is that we feel that light and love in our own hearts and souls. And through that we really create create more peace here on this planet of ours.

Beautiful. Well, thank you for shining your light so brightly and looking forward to connecting again soon. Thanks, Marc.

Yes, me too. Brian. Thank you so much for all that you're doing.

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