Interview: The Way of the Seal with Mark Divine

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Foreign.

Hi, this is Brian. Welcome back to the Optimized podcast. Today I'm thrilled to be chatting with my new friend, Commander Mark Divine, author of the Ray of the SEAL and Unbeatable Mind, former Navy SEAL commander and modern day Spartan, and I like to say, just a modern day superhero. I have so much respect and admiration for you, Mark, and this book is fantastic. I'm excited to share some of my favorite big ideas and I appreciate you taking the time.

Appreciate that generous introduction.

Let's start with the Ray of the seal. Tell us about why the book is called that and kind of what we think about when we think about the Ray of the seal.

Clearly the word that jumps out to most people is seal. And most people, you know, these days aren't thinking about the little animal running around in the beach. You know, they're thinking about Navy Seal and that would be accurate. But there's a couple other things in the title that are unique that most people don't catch. One is it's not the way of the seals, plural, it's my way. It's the way of one Navy seal. But what I have to say relates a lot to the way the seals operate. But not all, you know. And you can appreciate that, Brian, not all. And the fact that I titled the book the Way of kind of alludes to this, this other background of mine as a warrior from the Eastern traditions, as almost a lifetime martial artist and a yogi, that my life has been heavily influenced by more than one warrior tradition. The seals obviously being probably the most powerful because I was in it for 20 years and working with those fine, unbelievable warriors. But I've also been deeply inspired by my martial arts training in karate and in jitsu and in Kung fu, as well as my yoga training, which is very similar to the martial arts when we're talking about authentic yoga as a mental and spiritual development practice. So the title kind of says it all. It's my journey trying to navigate and learn how to be a warrior and master myself using the best of east and west and. But not getting too wrapped up in any of the cultural nuances. So that's why it's a way. It truly is. What I try to do is distill what I learned and say, okay, here's a way. This is a path to developing self mastery so you can serve others as a warrior and a leader and a good human being.

I love it. That brings us to the subtitle. My next question I wanted to ask, which is the subtitle to the book the Way of the Seal is think like an elite warrior to lead and succeed. And you talk about how you integrate not only the background you just described as a seal and as an eastern warrior, martial artist, Yogi, etc. But also as an entrepreneur creating six multi million dollar businesses and really integrating that in a powerful way. But I want to hear you describe this. What does it mean to be a warrior?

You know, some people will think that a warrior is a military man or woman. And I will say that there are warriors in the military and it is a warrior career path, that's for sure. But to me, the warrior is really, it's an archetype, it's an attitude, it's an aspect that every individual has. And when you step into your warrior, then what you're essentially doing is deciding to take a stand to be different, right? And what that means is you're going to live life with a very powerful ethos. You're not going to take things for granted that other people take for granted to include your body, mind system. So you're going to be deeply committed to mastering your physical and mental and emotional self. But also, the warrior is not selfish, right? The warrior does these things so that he or she can serve and protect and guide and lead and teach and do this for others, right? And so initially those others will be your family and your immediate tribe. But then as you develop both as a human and as your sense of security and competencies develop, then that expands to a broader tribe. That might be like in my case, protecting the nation or Western civilization. And then ultimately it will be to serve and protect all of humanity. And I Call that the world centric warrior. And that's where I think we all need to strive to get to in our warriorness, is to be servers and protectors of the planet and of humanity and let that trickle down to our countries, our companies, and our teams and families.

That's beautiful. And we're going to have a whole other chat just on the idea of a hero. But as you described the warrior as serving and protecting. We talked about my passion these days for the Greek etymology of the word hero, which literally means protector. Can you just tell us briefly, what does it mean for you to be a hero? Is it synonymous with a warrior?

The Greek etymology really is speaking to action, whereas I'm talking about an attitude. Right. And so, yeah, a hero could be someone who never thought of themselves as a warrior, but steps up to protect, you know, someone in a crisis or, you know, sees something unfolding and takes action to protect others. But up until that moment, they may never have thought of themselves as a warrior or try to develop their warrior attitude and their archetype or, you know, to be physically fit. And the things that we talk about, right, they are related. But I think the hero, it really comes out when you, you know, when you're called in a crisis or situationally.

I love it. And then if we want to be an everyday hero, then we need to embrace the attitude of the warrior and showing up day in and day out, the strength for two and.

Right. Because the thing is, you know, it's easy to let your guard down. It's easy to think, oh, yeah, I mean, you know, especially Leslie, Americans, you know, we're. We live in the most prosperous country in the world in the most prosperous time in history, and we're safe. You know, we've got two massive oceans on our borders and we got relatively friendly countries north and south of us, lots of friends who are Mexican, Canadians. Like, we're pretty much protected like a pancake here. And so, you know, we tend to have this false sense of security, so it's easy to let your guard down. But the warrior never lets his guard down. And he knows that, you know, something could happen at any time, any moment, you know, either just an accident to yourself or to others, or it could be, you know, like a terrorist attack or, you know, a natural disaster. And so you're always, you're not walking around, like creeping around corners, but you work to expand your awareness field so that you can detect threats and opportunities before other people do. Other people's. Other people do. So, yeah, that's the Whole point is if you want to be an everyday hero, you're right. Then the warrior attitude means that you're going to be training and developing yourself so that you can be aware of the opportunities to be a hero instead of ignorant of them.

That's awesome. Again, we're going to talk about that in one of these separate chats. For now, let's go back to way of the SEAL eight principles you unpack in the book. I want to chat about a few of my favorite ideas from those. Starting with, you say we need to establish our set point, turning a deep sense of values and purpose into a touchstone that will keep your feet in the sand and your eyes on the goal. Can you talk to us about that?

It's a reference to kind of a GPS, right? And the seals, when I went through the seals, we were map and compass and GPS's were just coming online and we had this massive brick thing. Of course, now they're in our watches and all over the place. But at any rate, in order to get somewhere, you need to know where your destination is. But with the GPS and even a map and compass, it's equally as important to know where you are. So then the two of those, you can draw a line and then map your route through the valleys and over the hills, so to speak. And so it's very similar to that in our own lives. Right? And so a lot of people will set goals and they know where they want to go, but they're ignorant or they don't spend the time assessing where they're at. We don't have great tools in our society to assess where we're at. Right, where we're at is where we're at. But how do we know? How do we benchmark that? And so I ask people to think deeply about what's their sense of self right now, what are their belief system, how do they organize their thoughts, what is their ethos? And when I mean ethos, what I mean by that is as a combination of your self concept in terms of what you're here for on this planet, like what your purpose is, that's going to give you directionality and forward momentum. And also what is it you're passionate about? Because you know, if you have a sense that your, your purpose is to be a warrior or in a leader or you know, a protector or hero, and you're passionate about baking, you know, then you're going to want to find a way that you can be a hero, you know, as a baker or as a, you know, Someone in that industry, Right? But if you, if you're, if you're passionate about adventure and risk taking and protecting like I did, then you're going to be drawn toward the Navy seals or the Army Rangers, right? So it's very different. So it's the intersection of passion and purpose. You got to get clear about that. That helps establish your set point. And then also equally important, and I alluded to this earlier, is really understanding where you stand, getting a clear sense of what values and what, what principles that you want to stand on. So that when you get pushed back and forth and buffeted by the challenges that are inevitable, then you're very clear when you start to get pushed off track. And so you can easily come back on track. And so those principles end up being like your guardrails, right? And so you can go left and right and you bump up against them, but you won't cross over them. So this combination of your passion, your purpose and principles, knowing where you stand is what your set point is. And this kind of gives you a strong foundation to push off of as you, you know, as you drive toward those momentous and worthy goals that you have.

Super powerful. And then you shared your purpose. In the book, can you describe it as you articulate it these days?

To me, purpose evolves as you evolve as a human right. And so you're going to have a different self concept of purpose in your 20s as you do in your 30s and 40s. And also life, obviously life itself will affect that and marriage and children and careers and whatnot. To me, it's not a career. So purpose is not about doing, but it's about being. And so early in my life, when I started to think this stuff through, before I joined the SEALs, I didn't have much sense of purpose. It was really kind of planted there by my family. I was kind of marching to someone else's drumbeat. And then through a deep process of self awareness, kind of triggered through an awakening process I had through Zen meditation in my early 20s while I was working in New York, it became clear to me that that was not it. What I was doing was not it. That that story was not right for me, that I was, you know, there was a different story, a different system of belief, and some ideas that I needed to tap into. So as I started to explore that, what came up was that I was meant to be a warrior and a leader, and I was passionate about, like I said earlier, adventure and risk and fitness and challenge. And so that really drew me like a siren Call to the Navy SEALs over time that evolved. Right. I still consider myself a warrior and a leader, but it was the underlying aspect of the warrior's drive to master himself that evolved as my purpose. And so this notion of self mastery and service became my overarching purpose until very recently into the last few years. And so now it's evolving again. And I'll have to report back on you, back to you, what the next version of my purpose is, but it's. It goes beyond mastery and service to something even more powerful.

I look forward to hearing that. I love the way you described front sight focus that the SEAL you as a SEAL had and that you recommend we have. Can you tell us about front side focus?

Sure. This is a way of kind of organizing our mind so that we can radically focus on the right thing at the right time for the right reasons. A Navy seal, you know, we might engage or it might appear like we're engaging multiple targets simultaneously. The reality is we're aware of those targets, but we're really only able to engage in one at a time. I mean, truly, when you think of it, if I'm in a firefight, I can really only pull my trigger while I'm aiming at one target at a time. Right. It's just impossible. And in the movies, pulling the trigger and just spraying 30 bullets out there doesn't hit anything. And so that's obviously a recipe for failure. And so frontside focus is when we apply this to businesses, okay, I've done the work. I'm clear about what my vision is for my future, and that's tied to my purpose. And so I have that vision clearly in my mind at all times so that I can check in with it and say, okay, is what I'm doing right now is working on this project, this initiative, this new business, this investment, Is it really in alignment with my vision? Well, I don't have to go back and, like, read my vision. I don't have to, like, go back and figure out my vision. It's clear because I've done the work, I've understood my step, I've established my set point. I'm clear about where I want to go and where I stand now. But the front side focus is what, you know, what am I doing, what am I focusing on right now that's going to get me there? And so in the Navy SEALs, you know, we would, let's say we're on a sniper range or we're in a firefighter. You've got your eye on the battlefield. What we call a soft gaze. So that's your awareness field. You're looking at the whole landscape but then you're zeroing in on the single target. But then when you go to take a shot, you're actually collapse your gaze down to the front sight of your weapon. And so you can look at the front sight of the weapon as like the micro goal. This is like what task am I doing right this moment that's going to be connected to me achieving success on this target? Well for the seal, that's just to focus on the post. Then I pull the trigger, I take action, then the bullet hits the target. Okay, good, because I was aiming at the target and I focused on the right task at the right time. My bullet hits the target, but that target is the right target for me to hit amidst all these other targets that are out there, some of which might be high value targets, some of which might even be dangerous, you know. And so but I've been able to scan the environment and to reduce the target set down to this one is the right one for me to tackle right now. Now for as a busy entrepreneur we know that we're going to go, we're going to be engaging multiple targets simultaneously as we grow our businesses. However, on any one day you may only take massive action toward one of them or two of them. Right? And it's very clear to know keep your eye on that front sight post of those targets to knock them down or else you'll never achieve the short term, medium term, long term goals that are tied to your purpose, that are going to allow you to achieve the destiny that you see for yourself in your lives.

So powerful. And several things come to my mind. We chat about your next book which again I look forward to chatting about in terms of that bringing that focus to this moment via your mind. And I want to talk about some of the techniques you talk about in way of the seal. And then I was thinking I want to hear how you go about discovering yours. What came to mind, which I'll briefly share is how I do mine. So every morning we just reconnected you with Cal Newport. Right. So I'm so excited that you guys are going to be chatting about so many different things and just that idea of deep work. So for me it's meditation every morning, simple 20 minute breath work and then loving kindness meditation. Five minutes of opening series, basic yoga. And then I review my purpose. I actually started my heroes and the virtues I want to embody very fresh every day. And then the purpose, mission, strategy and Basic ideas about what I'm committed to this year and beyond. And then it's my number one deep work project. What front side focused on, what is the number one thing that needs to get done today that before I turn on email or do anything else, I am going to hammer through. It might take me 10 minutes, it might take me two hours, but I'm getting that done to move the game forward. That's kind of my approach to the ideas you were talking about in my morning. But I'd love to hear how do you. And how does one identify that front side focus most optimally, the process over.

The long term is to get very, very clear about your vision. And that is a constant process. Right. And so there are aspects of your morning ritual or evening ritual that will be checking in with that and just seeing how it's evolving. Right. So that you kind of curate your vision as opposed to like all of a sudden lose your vision. Because there's times where you're just like, oh my gosh, you know, I've already. I've accomplished that. Or, you know, like, for me, I'm leaving the SEALs active duty and I. And what am I going to do? I want to be an entrepreneur. Okay, well, what type of. You know. So there's times like I describe in my book where I lost clarity of the vision. It's because I wasn't kind of curating it all along. So now I make sure that I curate it. I see where I want to be in five years, also see the possibilities for that shifting and expanding. And so I check in. So I call that future me. I have an aspect of my future me visualization. It's a visualization that I do where I go into about 20 years out and I just see myself and I sit with that and I kind of feel what that feels like and I allow for possibilities to kind of emerge. So that's that. That's the long, long term. And then I have, you know, I was inspired by the Keller's book One Thing. I kind of borrowed that term and of course gave him credit. But I like to think that we all have one major thing that we're driving toward. And for me, this has always proven out to be true. Now, you could push back against this because, like, you know, you've got a couple things you're driving toward and I've got a couple businesses and, you know, I'm launching more. So there are more than one thing I'm working on. But generally speaking, right now, the one thing that has become Imperative for me to work on my one thing is to develop my leadership capacity, to expand my capability to manage more effectively, to lead and manage my business more effectively, to give me more freedom to do what I need and love to do so that I can fulfill my purpose in a bigger way. Because having businesses as you know, can be extremely time consuming and stressful. And yes, so I do believe that everyone has like this one major thing that they, that they're working on and usually it has to do with their personal capacity. Right. And so and but it ties into business or professional life oftentimes. So I think that's part of front psych focus is what is the major thing that you're working on and how is that going to show up in the structure and affect your teams? Right. And what personal capacities? So, you know, I'm a big fan of the, of integral theory. And so the I, we and the it all need to be addressed when you're talking about that one thing. So part of front sight focus is now linking that one thing to your purpose, or vice versa, linking your purpose to your one thing and then backing it down to the actual projects that are. And the one thing is going to be a 12 to three year kind of, you know, we tend to work as humans best in 12 to 3 year kind of chunks, right. 12 months isn't enough. 12 months go by so fast. So if you had a major project, it's tough to get it done. You know, the type of projects I'm talking about, like launching a business or a nonprofit or you know, learning, you know, shifting career from being a Navy SEAL to a computer programmer or something like that, it takes generally between one year and three years. So those are your one thing kind of time periods. And then so within the construct of knowing what your one thing is, which is aligned with your vision for your future, then we're gonna identify the core targets that we need to go after. Right. And so I've got a process that I introduce in the way of the SEAL where, and it's really loosely based upon Navy SEAL target selection process where, where we identify what targets are the right targets to go for the most high priority, high value targets. And I call that the fits process in terms of do the targets fit? And the acronym is F. You know, the F is does this fit me in terms of my skills, my personalities, my attitude?

Right.

Cause a lot of times we go after things that really we had no business going after. And you can also put your team in that category, right. If you're Going after a target that doesn't inspire your team or your team doesn't have the skills for, then they're not gonna succeed. And then the I is, how important is target? Right? Compared, let's say, compared to other targets. And you might think a target was really important, but then when you're comparing, you know, when you go to the fits target, the fits process on like five targets you think are all really important, usually one or two bubble to the top. And so that one, those take priority. And then. But you gotta ask the T is, is the timing right? Is the timing right for this target? So a lot of targets we take on, we're just not ready for, or the market's not ready for us, or maybe we're too late. And so the timing is. Is really important. And then the S in the fits process is, can I conceptualize and articulate this project in simple terms? Because if it's too complex, then there's too many moving parts, too many variables out of our control, then we're more likely to fail. And so it takes some time to kind of distill it and simplify it, find the simplicity on the other side of the complexity. So this process has really helped both SEALs and then me, in the way of the SEAL, identify the targets that are the highest value, the highest priority, which are going to drive me forward and help me accomplish my one thing which is tied to my. Which is aligned, I should say, with my purpose, which I have a clear vision about. So that's in a nutshell, in a big nutshell, the concept of front sight.

Focus, which you unpack brilliantly in the book and just really, really helpful to kind of walk through that. I remember doing it with different things I had going on and actually using. You got a little matrix, right, of which one actually fits overall, given all the opportunities you could pursue. So you mentioned your future me process. Is that a very personal thing or is it something that you can actually tell us a little bit about? What do you see when you look forward 20 years?

To me, it's to do what I'm doing, but at a much bigger level. So it's not unlike probably your vision for optimize and that you want to impact a lot more people and help more people. So for me, it's like at a. I know we're going through some radical changes globally. Right. And we've had this discussion before, and it's, you know, it's part of the meme now, obviously, you know, with the election in Brexit, in the UK and European Union kind of disintegrating and technology accelerating. And there's just a lot of confusion, a lot of consternation and gnashing of teeth. And we're going through a very challenging time. The next 20 years and beyond are going to be very, very challenging for a lot of people, for everybody, for global population, right? Not the least of which is coming to grips with artificial intelligence and the Singularity. And what's going to happen when computers cognitively outsmart us, which is obviously going to happen in terms of our cognitive or IQ or memory and this vision of jacking human brains into the Internet and being connected to the human race. There's a lot of existential questions coming on now. I happen to believe that the human being is far more than a set of complex neurological connections in the brain. I think the human is far more nuanced and rich and advanced than a computer program could ever accomplish or simulate. So, you know, I kind of fly in the face of Kurzweil and these guys who say that we're going to be able to just mimic the human being and then maybe download our consciousness into a computer someday and live forever as a, you know, a non biological being. So anyways, I'm going a little off subject here because what I believe in is that the humans, we're capable of like vastly more than we've been led to believe. I think that we have the capacity to achieve, to accomplish, to perform, to live longer, to be, you know, optimally healthy, you know, and to achieve this type of potential we just need to do, you know, to follow a set of rules that have been handed down probably 100,000 years ago. And those rules, you know, I'm starting to touch on in the way of the seal and then unbeatable mind. And they're very powerful. And so let me just summarize what I think my vision is. Is to help upgrade human consciousness, to be a teacher, to help people upgrade their consciousness so that they can keep pace and understand and make sense of the change that's happening all around them and to make good decisions, right? And so when someone hands you a chip and says here, connect to the Internet, you're really thoughtful about it and you make sure that that's actually the right thing to do because it might be a one way street, right? And distraction is becoming a disease. I love the book the Seventh Sense. I know you recently did some work on that and I've read the book and I really like the message because it's true. The disease of Our coming age is insanity, both individual and culturally, because we just don't take the time to do things that keep us sane and that lead to deep meaning in our lives. And people are just constantly distracted and connected and cluttered. And connecting your brain to the Internet is just going to make that a hundred thousand times worse and you're going to lose your sense of what it means to be human. I think that I want to be a canary in the coal mine and say, be careful, everyone. Let's be very, very cautious about where we're going with this technology because it could be the end of the human race, quite frankly. And I feel a very strong sense of urgency, like I'm being propelled from, you know, forces unknown to help people counter that and to upgrade themselves and to make good decisions and so that we can be partners with this technology and not let it, you know, bowl us over like a tsunami. That was a big kind of sidetracked diatribe, but I hope it made sense.

That was absolutely amazing. You know, again, I appreciate you. You going into the question and just kind of unpacking on a high level how you're seeing things 20 years out, etc. So many things we can talk about there. And it's funny that as you were starting to describe everything, I wrote down Joshua Cooper Ramo and was thinking, I was almost certain you need a book and wanted to make sure. And connecting the two of you guys and that hard gatekeeping. Right. He and I had an awesome chat and just that idea of it's already happening. Sure, we might be able to actually do a chip, but you got your smartphone. It's pretty much doing a lot of that right now, chipping away anyway at those gates. Right. So whole other conversation. But I want to pull the thread, if we can, on the 20x. You know that you didn't use that phrase right now when we talk about 20 years out, you were talking about our potential. It's so much bigger than we think. And I know you talk about 20x a lot. Can you just reflect on that briefly as we lean into that warrior attitude, the heroic call to give our gifts and that we're capable of a lot more than we might think.

When I went into Navy SEAL training, and most people who listening are aware that the training is very challenging, and it's challenging at a lot of different levels, physically and mentally and emotionally. But there's one particular week in the training called Hell Week, which, you know, is. Is almost inhuman. Right. And they've, you know, there have been many in the Navy who've tried to get the seals to eliminate the training. It's just say it's not fair, it's not realistic, it's too, too crazy, too hard. Too many people get injured and sick and people have died, you know, and it's seven days of non stop around the clock training, 24, 7. And it's arduous, right? It's, it's just arduous training. I mean you're running hundreds of miles and swimming, you know, many, many miles in the ocean and paddling around Coronado island and carrying logs for miles, you know, £300. I mean it's just non stop torture. But when I went into my training, I had a SEAL instructor who approached me and I was meditating on the beach or at least contemplating, you know, alone. My team was back in the tent kind of fretting and, or snoozing or, you know, preparing their own way. And I'd walk down to the beach and he saw me, he came down, he's like, mark, don't sweat this. You're capable of 20 times more than you think you are. And I smiled and I thought about that. But here I was about to embark upon this thing. Sure enough, 24 hours go by, I'm pretty fatigued, 48 hours go by, over half the classes quit and I'm fatigued and tired and everything, but I'm still pretty alert. And then 72 hours go by and I'm starting to actually feel stronger. And so by Thursday, we kicked off on Sunday. By Thursday of Hell week, my body mind system had accepted this new reality and basically saying, okay, we're not ever going to sleep again, but if that's the reality, I can figure this out, I can keep moving, I can solve problems. And it started to develop muscle mass like I was getting stronger. Now most people, most doctors in Western medicine would say, okay, after, after four days of round the clock training and no sleep, you'd be starting to waste away and you could barely haul yourself off the ground. And I was getting stronger and I was feeling more alert. Now probably if you had given me a drunk test, I probably would have failed it. But at performing the functions that I needed to do, I was getting stronger and more alert and becoming more sensitive to my team's needs and all those things. By the time I finished Hell Week subsequent weeks, I had a radical shift in consciousness. I mean, there was no question that I came out of that a different person, a different sense of self, a different understanding of what I was capable of. And I call that the 20x factor in honor of that unknown instructor. I wish I could remember who it was who said that I was capable of 20 times more. So now that 20x can be physical, like, there's no question that I accomplished 20 times more or probably 100 times more physically, physically than I had ever done before during that training. But the reality was it was the mental and emotional that was the most interesting, right? Because I accomplished 20 times more in those domains as well. And so now this has become a powerful kind of metaphor for the training that I offer through unbeatable mind, which is my training program, is that if we can develop ourselves, if we take responsibility for developing ourselves at five primary domains that we have as a human, physically, mentally, emotionally, intuitionally, which is our innate instinct and wisdom and spontaneity and capacity to make good decisions, which needs to be learned. And then spiritually, and I mean that in a non secular sense, your warrior spirit, your non queen spirit, your willpower, your sense of deep connection and purpose and mystery. So we can develop all these, we have them all, but when they lay dormant, they tend to atrophy or get hidden from us. And so this training program where we integrate the development of those five domains, physical, mental, emotional, intuition and spiritual, tends to unlock this accelerated growth. And it's not just accelerated cognitive growth. And we're not talking about accelerated learning, we're talking about accelerated growing. And we tend to grow to higher states and stages of consciousness where we can perform more, we can access more energy, access more willpower, access more attention and focus and concentration and creativity, right? And that's when we find 20x. And when you find 20x, you know, it really is an interesting experience because like I said, it can be kind of a physical challenge that all of a sudden you, you tackle and you're like, holy cow, I never thought I could do that. And then you have that new benchmark, and our Kokoro camp with Sealfit is an example of that or the 20x program. But some of my most profound 20x experiences weren't just physical. You know, they're more spiritual or emotional. So it's a pretty powerful concept. And it kind of goes back to speaking to this notion of, you know, when we take responsibility for our own growth at this level, we truly do accelerate and move, learn that the human being is far more than just a number of complex neurological, synaptical connections. And the meaning that we can find and the purpose that we can bring to the world and the growth that can occur are Extraordinary and very inspiring.

Yeah, that's firing me up. And you mentioned kokoro. And as we discussed in our chat on your show, I'm going to be there April 2018. It's April, right? I'm all in. I'm already starting to recruit some friends. So if you're listening to this, go check out is it sealfit.com kokoro that.

Will probably get you there.

Okay, cool. Just Google Mark Divine Kokoro. K O K O R O. And you know, it's kind of like if we could rewind and be X years old and thinking about joining the Seals as a adults wherever we are in this part of our lives to go in and get a taste of that over. Is it 50 hours, Mark?

52 hours. And a lot of the instructors are SEAL instructors, but not, you know, not all of them excellent civilian instructors. And the kokoro means heart, right? It means your spiritual heart center. And so the whole idea is not just to go there and be a Rambo and show how tough you're are. Those people don't make it. We deliberately design it so that you can't do it. You can get through it, but you're not going to experience what we want you to experience if you try to gut through it just with your physical skills.

Yeah, can't wait. And again, Mark, just so inspiring. There's literally a thousand other things we can talk about. We will literally need to do a weekend together at some point. And I mean, as you know, very seriously, I'm looking forward to talking more about that with our new campus here in Ojai. We didn't talk about breathing. We didn't talk about directing your mind. Your process to direct your mind is just so powerful. We didn't go into a lot of detail, although we tangentially talked about commitment and the fact that it's a one way street and to categorically remove the option to quit. We didn't talk about the fact you tell us we need to get rid of of TV news and quit being poisoned and then kind of the overall idea of disciplined. Although all those things are again related to what we talked about. So future chats. Mark, seriously, thank you so much. I appreciate you for being who you are and just stepping into your warrior and hero spirit with such a big heart. It deeply inspires me and I appreciate you sharing your wisdom today.

It's been an honor. I love what you're up to. I look forward to maybe doing a way of the SEAL training up in up at your Oasis that would make.

Me incredibly proud to both help host it and to attend it. That'd be amazing. Look forward to talking more.

See at Kokoro. Yes. Sooner.