Live coaching session from the Optimize Coach program featuring psychotherapist Phil Stutz and a participant who struggles with fear and anxiety when interacting with authority figures. Stutz leads a guided visualization/exercise he calls "Parental Revolt" (an internalized, forceful expression toward a parental figure as a metaphor) to discharge blocked aggression and create relief. He also teaches the concept of "expansive discipline"—a practice of regularly reaching beyond comfort zones toward authority figures (kept as daily disciplined steps, with journaling)—and situates it among three types of discipline (reactive, structural, expansive). Practical takeaways: practice the visualization to free constricted expression, keep a nightly journal of "expansive" steps, and treat outreach to authority as athletic training.
Chapters
The content you're about to hear was captured during a live coaching session in the Optimize Coach program multiple times every month. Coaches Connect Live with Brian, Michael, Alexandra and members of our world class luminary guest faculty for wisdom, guidance and encouragement. For more head to optimize me coach Dr. Phil Stutz.
Thank you very much. I really wanted to reach out to you today. I've loved your tools and they've helped me tremendously along with this coaching program. But I think the biggest key that I'm looking for some help right now is just this fear that I get when I'm working with like what I propose as our authoritative figures. Right. So like, for me, I'm running my own business as an executive recruiter and I'm constantly talking to new clients about utilizing my services. And I get so much fear and anxiety right there just trying to perform at this high level. I don't have any of that when I'm sourcing candidates, when I'm talking to regular people that I feel like maybe are on the same level as I am, but for whatever reason, because I don't know if it's because there's money involved kind of going back to those two circles that you were talking about earlier or you know what it is. So your wisdom and input and insight would be greatly appreciated.
Were you an athlete in college or something?
Yeah, I was. Yep.
What was it?
So I played Division 3 college hockey and then I coached college hockey after that for about seven years.
Were you a good coach?
I think so. I've had some feedback from some athletes that I think were at the fork in the road in their life and I made a good impact and, you know, really enjoyed that. But I also think that I probably wasn't a good coach at some points too. You know, I could have been better. Right.
Tell me.
You know, just like with what we're learning about parenting and trying to set high standards, but also have high levels of warmth, you know, I. In my younger years, maybe not a whole lot of warmth. You know what I mean? More of a dictator versus combining those two elements thing too, that I thought too. Phil was like my dad was. He was in the military when I was young and he was also police officer. So like, he was pretty strict with me and. And I've evolved over time and tried to become a little bit more empathetic for people and. And that kind of thing versus what I grew up used to. I knew he always loved me and would do anything for me. That was never a question. But you Know, the approach was always something that we could work on.
Tell me, like, the worst approach. He made teachers be the most painful.
You know, just like after, you know, after an event or I would want to do something on a social side of things when, you know, he would want me to be doing something on more of an athletic side of things. And we would be just in the car. Right. And I remember myself breaking down into tears, you know, just kind of getting berated for stuff.
Okay, how did he react to that when you broke down?
I feel like he just kept going.
He ignored it.
Yeah.
Okay, listen, I'm going to teach you a new tool. This tool is a little bit controversial, so I can't really put in a book, not yet, but it's called Parental Revolt. And what it means. Let me tell. Because probably there are a lot of people listening. This is not a suggestion about how to treat your real father. I don't know if. Is your father alive still?
Oh, yeah. Yep.
Okay. It's not a suggestion that you treat him or anybody else in what I'm about to show you. And then when. Once you learn it, then I'll explain to you why that's so important. Okay. So close your eyes and just put yourself right in that car. And you're breaking down. He's paying no attention. And think of it as a metaphor that's occurred before this, you know, I don't know how many times, but certainly it's a curvy place. Now, what I want you to do is. Oh, was he driving the car? Is it trauma? So I want you to tell him to pull over. And if he won't pull over, I want you to scream it right in his face. Pull over. I'm gonna. I'm gonna pull this car right off the road and kill us both if you don't pull over. And then. So he pulls over. And then you tell him. I don't want you to ever ignore what I'm feeling again. And I want you to do silent. Don't make any noise, but internally, make it a scream. Like, a scream. Like, you almost could hurt him or kill him. Good. Now make him more. Make him more. And watch.
How.
What is he. How does he react to it?
He just kind of pauses and almost. The deer in the headlight sort of Look.
Okay, now this is going to be hard. Look at him in that deer in the headlight look, guys. And I want you to go even meaner and nastier to him. In other words, force him into the next step emotionally, and just do it. The same way, like I'm tired of this and being ignored and, you know, the harshness. But again, say it at a screen level. Good. Okay, open your eyes. Now tell us what it felt like.
It felt kind of relieved, like a relief.
Okay.
Like you finally heard what I, you know, needed to say.
Okay. Are there things in the present now, as an adult where. Not with him, with other people, where you don't. You don't express certain things?
Yeah, I think so. I think sometimes, like what I'm thinking and what I'm able to communicate aren't matching up. And so it's, you know, kind of stymieing what I. How I express myself to some of these higher, you know, maybe these potential clients and whatnot.
Okay, here's what you have to do. You can. The father. I'm not saying that your father was the cause of all this. I don't like blaming parents anyway. But this exercise, it's not really about the parent or what they did. It's about yourself. So you're doing something, expressing something normally you wouldn't dare do because there's no one else there, because you're not doing it. It's a good way to practice that. Here's the thing. You will. You'll always be a little intimidated by authority figures unless you do this exercise enough times where your aggression is freer, you know, because of him. And I think probably the environment you grew up in, it feels to me like it was a black or white, all or nothing thing. So you could probably punch someone in the nose or something. But this is a modulated force that we want to bring up to give you the sense of freedom and self expression. Your father is just a good tackling dummy. But people get, when they do this or they try to do it, they tend to get very guilty. And I have to remind them your father won't know about this. This is not a model for treating him. As a matter of fact, if you want to really try something interesting, do the exercise the next time you're with them before you. Before you sit down to dinner or whatever reason and see how you feel.
Yeah.
Now right now, you're very alive. I don't know if you can feel it or not. There's probably a thousand people watching that can see this. So there's something in there. And it's not that what's in there is just aggression and I want to hurt someone. It's just that that had to get out first. And for you to see that you didn't kill anybody. No one's killed. So then there's a relief in that. There's like a thing lighting up. What was your original question?
I get so fearful when I'd like meetings. Yeah. And I just an authoritative figure or somebody that I, like, put in a position of power.
Now, here's the other thing. I mean, there's a lot of things. I live in la, so there's a lot of, you know, the show business. So there's a lot of agents. And the agents have a secret. And the secret is agents are very into hierarchies. Who's here, who's here, who's there, who's on your list? You know what that means? List. You know, who you represent. But most of them have a secret, which is they'll like. They'll call the president of the studio to try to play someone, but they won't call the chairman. The chairman's the highest. They won't call them under any circumstances. Nobody knows this except me. I'm so. For years. And everybody will think he's a big, you know, swinging dick, whatever it is. But there's certain things he won't touch with a million foot pole. He's scared. And he feels internally like a fraud or weak now. So you want to challenge that. It's called expansive discipline. There's three kinds of discipline. There's reactive discipline, which is if someone offers you, you know, some heroin, no.
I don't want it.
Whatever. I control my reactions. Then there's structural discipline, which is how I order my days. But the one relevant now is expansive discipline, which means it's the discipline to continue to reach out beyond what's comfortable for you. It has to be a discipline, because otherwise we're getting into results. It's like, this is just the way I do. I reach out beyond me. And if I see anybody beyond me, that's an authority figure, I rush towards it with bells on. That will scare the shit out of you. A lot of times you won't be able to do it. But the idea, you see why it's called expansive discipline? It's the discipline to constantly expand. So. And these agents, you know, most of them are fast talkers. So they. It's very hard for them to do this because they're used to bullshit. And people. You don't have that drive at all. But it has to be. If you're really serious about this, you should keep a little journal. And every night before you go to bed, you should write. Just think five minutes. Don't make it a big thing. But you should write down which of these expansive steps, if any, you've taken today and then a plan for the next day. Even if you can only think of one person, the person who makes the most effort to experience this is the realm of authority, makes the most effort to get in there, wins. Not because in any given interaction something good will come out of it. It's just your level in the universe starts to change. And I don't want you to think I'm a big success or powerful. That's not the right way to think of it. You are thinking that I'm the guy who, who's consistently transgressing that line. Wherever the imaginary line is. That's my identity. And if I, if I become less frightened, I'm going to keep doing it. And the more this feels to you like a athletic, like training, the easier it'll be for you to do it. It'll be a big relief.
That's awesome. Thank you so much, man. Yeah, I don't feel like I'm a fast talker. I try to be true and authentic with the people that I am. And I love expansive discipline. Really just, you know, along with this program, trying to be the best version of myself each and every day, each and every communication. You know what I mean? Realizing I'm here now, but that doesn't mean that's where I'm going to be over the course of time. Just committing to.
Yes, that's great.
Thank you so much.
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