CeDeFi, MetaFi, TradFi, and other opportunities for crypto hodlers | AMA with YouHodler

Sam. Hey everyone, what's up? It's Rachel Wolfson here. Thanks again for joining us for another very special AMA today. Today I'm here with Ilya Volkov, he is the CEO of uhodler. Hey Ilya, how's it going?

Hi Rachel. Hi guys. Yeah, it's a pleasure to be here. Good to see you too.

Yeah, it's a pleasure to have you here. Ilia. Before we get started I want to remind the audience please drop your questions in the chat below. Ilya is here to answer those for you. And yeah, let's just get get started. Ilya, first off, how about you start by explaining what YouHODler is and how it's different from other platforms like BlockFi and Celsius.

Such a big question. I can consume the entire time of our stream like 40 minutes just answering this question. But okay, let's, let's be straightforward. So youhoder is a platform with all major features that help people, normal people like you and I to unlock all the benefits of crypto in the easy secure way. So we have wallets with integrated crypto rewards or crypto saving accounts. We have exchange services from fiat to crypto, from crypto to crypto. So we have lending and we have trading. And actually we are very different to many other crypto companies like you mentioned Celsius and BlockFi many because so first of all we are not ICO backed, we are not VC backed, so we're not burning VC money. So we're self efficient. So we have started like a crypto backed lending company, like many other service providers. But again nowadays we have much better product portfolio. So also we are very different in terms of business model in general. I think we'll speak more about about that topic today but just briefly, so many other companies, crypto companies are operating or operated like a crypto hedge funds meaning they are taking customer funds and then placing them under a third party service providers, financial institutions, defi protocols, whatever. So we are self efficient. So everything is based on our own services, on our products and services. So again long story short, so we are a fintech company with number of crypto fiat services, not ICO backed. No. Any token related to youhodler? And maybe just to sum up, I have some nice analogy for you Rachel, if you don't mind. So we all know companies like you just mentioned like blockfi or celsius or crypto.com, so just think that they are here and on the other side we all know companies like let's say Robinhood or Charge Swap. So we are like in the middle. So here are crypto companies, here are traditional trading companies. We're in the middle, but we're crypto native.

Got it. Wonderful. Well, I think that sums it up really nicely, Ilya. We've got a ton of questions coming in from the audience. But before I take those and I will take those soon, obviously what's on everybody's mind right now in the crypto industry is it's crypto winter. We're in a bear market. How is that impacting you, Hodler?

Look, first of all, I think we all understand that the term winter is not about just crypto market, right? So we are at the beginning or at the active phase of another crisis, another recession, another downturn. And the real reason for all the events nowadays is in high inflation rates, in Fed raising key rates. So basically the main reason in the economy in general and a lot of different microeconomic factors. But as for crypto, of course, crypto just following the traditional market and of course everyone affected. So we all affected by general recession and as business, of course. So even like if you take for example the recent Celsius event, let's call it like that, of course we have received a lot of activities, mostly in regards to crypto withdrawals. So that's fine. It was some kind of a stress test and we have successfully passed the stress test. So a lot of, you know, panicking on the market, of course, a lot of, you know, fat. Right. This another modern slang word. But I think it's like always crisis is a time of opportunity. So and for us it's a nice time of opportunity and for us it's nice time to prove that everything is like, up and running. We have a sustainable business model, we have proper risk management, and for us it's just another investment into credibility and trust. So.

Right, well, that's great. And so I love to see the optimism. Even though we are in crypto winter, a lot of the space is very optimistic. A lot of people find it as an opportunity to buy. So that's great. I'm going to take a question from the audience because like I said, we're getting a lot coming in, which is great. Rob Blitz is asking. Hi, Ilya, My question is what, what strategies does youhodler use to give youhodler users these fixed high APY percentages? Thank you. Loving the platform.

Yeah, thank you for this question. Actually, it's the most common question, as you can see from the chat. So look, let's speak about our business model. As I said, we are very different to many other companies. We are very different to crypto hedge funds. So we have four main groups of our product products. So the first one is about exchange, the second one is about crypto back lending, the third one is about trading and number four is about crypto interest accounts or crypto yield or crypto rewards. So the first three are about revenue generating for us. So we are generating our revenues from the first three group of products. The fourth one is about like costs basically. So instead of paying to Google and Facebook, we decided to pay to our users. So actually everything is very simple. So we generate our revenues and we pay back to our users. So as for revenue generating products, again we have our commissions on exchange, we have our commissions on trading, we have crypto backed lending solutions. But again when we speak about crypto back lending, we're speaking about collateralized loans only with very, let's say efficient low to valuations. As I said, we are retail focused, so no any third party loans to anyone. Again, everything is generating inside the platform and then we are sharing significant part of our revenues with our users. By the way, we are improving our start page on our website. So if you go to our website and find the page with our stats, you will see number of figures including a chart where we started to share the total amount of revenues versus the total amount of payouts to our users. So yes, we can say that our rates for some coins are pretty much high. But keep in mind that we have limits. So our risk and compliance team always keep an eye on efficiency and balancing in our portfolio. Some of you know that before, let's say the current changes on the market, we had a default limit up to 100k per user default limit. Now we have 25k per user by default and we can increase this limit in connection with customer activities on the platform. So long story short, we welcome active hodlers. We generate revenue and we pay back revenue to our users instead of paying to someone else. Everything is generated inside the platform. So maybe just to illustrate it a bit better, it's something like cash back but not like a traditional cashback where you as a customer to someone getting a part of commissions you paid to the service provider. Because we are generating revenue from all our products and from all our user base and we paid to the entire user base. Some of our users are more active and they are generating more revenues, some of them more passive. But as for default rates and default limits, they're the same for everyone. So yeah, I hope that answers your question right.

I'M also going to take another question that kind of is associated with that question from Larks Heaton. He's asking Are those APYs sustainable? Thank you. So Ilia, if you can just explain that a little bit, that would be good.

Look again, it's not like we take your funds and and place them under someone else management. So we never used protocols like Encore, we never used any other DEFI or even CEFI protocol. So everything is managed inside our platform. So that means that we do not have third party risk. From that perspective, our rates are sustainable because again we generate our revenue in house and we share part of this revenue with our user base. So everything is manageable in terms of sustainability for the long term. It depends on the market, it depends on the user activities on the platform. So no surprises during the, you know, the current and so during the current crisis, most likely we will need to reduce rates for some coins. So our finance team is currently working on, they're always working on this balancing and analysis. So most likely we will adjust slightly some rates for some coins. But again it's nothing about sustainability because it's not about revenues coming from third parties. It's about yield and revenue generated inside the platform.

Got it. Wonderful. Ilya, let's talk a little bit more about the features of youhodler. So for instance staking things like that, if you want to go into some detail there, that would be good.

Yeah. Again, so we are like a combination of, let's say, I can say traditional crypto platform with trading platform. So we have a number of products for passive hodlers and we have a number of products for active hodlers. So as for passive, of course we can, we, we again can speak about interest accounts or we can speak about simple products like buy crypto or sell crypto or or swap from one crypto to another crypto. So then as for passive hodling, we have crypto backed lending solutions with two major target audiences behind. So first of all of course we can speak about traditional use case where someone just need to get cash to pay his or her regular bills and do not want to sell crypto at the same time. Or we can speak about another case where some active customers are using crypto crypto backed lending solutions in order to, let's say leverage their crypto in order to benefit from prices going up or down by getting additional crypto to sell it or by getting additional fiat or stable coins just to buy more crypto and hodl more crypto. So plus to this we have as I said we have for active Hodlers we have a few trading products, multi Hodl and and turbocharge. So again as I said, we welcome active Hodlers but at the same time we have all needed products for, for passive and conservative Hodlers. And here actually is their, their important point, especially during the time of crisis and recession. So I personally big fan of strategies like, like. Like marble strategy I believe you know the strategy where it's always better to, to store your like 70 or 80% of your funds at highly liquid and low risk assets and it's always nice to play with the rest. To play meaning to. To. To benefit from. From market volatility. So like in theory the ratio should be from 80 to 20 or from 70 to 30 like like the majority again with highly liquid and low risk assets. And the, the small part should new. So and again we have products both sides if you'd like to just to stay passive you can simply hodl it or simply convert it if you'd like to play. So yeah, we have this product.

Yeah, great, wonderful. Thanks Ilya. And you know, we're getting a lot of questions from the audience and Ilya, you're obviously extremely brave to do this AMA today given the recent events, but I'm really happy to hear the optimism here. Let's talk a little bit about Web3 because that space is evolving quite quickly and I'm just curious to know how youhodler is developing and advancing as the web3 space evolves. Are there any features that are accommodating?

Sure. Actually we have started from building bridges between Fiat and crypto. So and now we have all major points and tokens integrated into the platform on one hand. On the other hand we have a number of fiat currencies integrated with a number of fiat payment solutions. So this bridge between crypto and Fiat already built and integrated into the platform. So now we are focusing on building a bridge between DeFi and Cefi. But again I'm not speaking about like using customer funds by staking somewhere else on Defi protocols. I'm speaking about bridge meaning we try to integrate some additional products with simplified access to defy from inside our platform. We all know that it's not like something easy for just regular person to get familiar with all the features of different Defi protocols. And it would be really nice to have something simplified and something easy to understand and something with some kind of responsibility behind inside platforms like youhoder, like I said in the beginning, so we can speak about a combination of different worlds like traditional Finance, crypto finance or traditional crypto and trading, something like that. So by integrating some DEFI features into the platform, I think we are making another step forward into Web three. And basically I think we have one bold trend. So I'm not speaking about crisis and recession, so I think it's something more positive. Like we all witnessed a transition from private storages to cloud storages. Right now we all like 99% cloud based, right? So I believe that in a few years from now we all will be blockchain based in terms of storage of data, in terms of digital identities, in terms of different kind of services. And we as a digital asset service provider or some kind of digital neo crypto to fiat bank, we have to follow, right? That's why we have to be prepared with integrated DEFI services with integrated features that will help people to leave and benefit from this in this decentralized world. But again it's some kind of a strategy and we invest a lot into infrastructure, into the infrastructure and into our product development. But as for short term term, during the next, actually a few weeks, I think sometime in July, we will implement the very first DEFI product which will be secure and easy to use with no any relations to again staking or pooling or whatever with third parties. So yeah, but good question. So maybe we can Even speak about Web5 following the recent publication from Jack, right?

Yes, eventually. And then I want to ask you Ilya, where, where does UHODLER operate? Which regions and jurisdictions? Because I know you said not in the United States, so is it mainly in Europe?

Yeah, mainly in Europe. Like I would say like 70 of our customer base from, from different European regions, mostly Europe, uh, all the rest comes from different regions except uh, the US Uh, so we never targeted uh, the US and actually we don't have us on our roadmap for the next, I would say couple of years at least. So the rest comes from some Asian countries, from Latin America, partially from some African countries, but still 70% Europe.

Got it. And just out of curiosity, why is the US not on the roadmap for, you know, the next few years or so? Is it just because the regulations here.

It's a very good question because, yeah, it's a very good question. So we have very conservative risk management approach. Very conservative and I'm speaking about different sides of risk management. So it's conservative in regards to the management of our balance sheet and it is conservative in regards to our legal strategy in compliance. So in order to target US customers, you have to be properly regulated I know that some of crypto enthusiasts, I mean crypto entrepreneurs started to target the US you know, following the crypto hype 2017 and now some of them are getting a lot of issues, right with issues with SAC and other other kind of regulators and regulations. So initially and from the beginning we had a very conservative approach and we still have this conservative approach. We will enter the yes, only after relevant preparations, with relevant paperwork, with only after establishing physical substance with. So with basically all the pieces needed to start the business. Until then we are fully focused on, on Europe especially because unfortunately I think we can speak about that now like crypto and not just crypto, financial market operates globally but regulated locally. So even, even, even inside Europe, regulation is still very fragmented. Right. So we are waiting for implementation of mica, which is some kind of a general framework for European Union to regulate, to regulate crypto space. But we're still waiting up until this regulation will be implemented and will come into force. We have to follow a number of local requ so we have to apply for a number of different licenses in different markets, in different regions. It's time consuming, it's costly, but we have to do it and we're doing that. So now we are already like a regulated financial institution. But additionally we have to open new branches, apply for new licenses and again, until we finish everything in regards to Europe, until we build a solid basis properly regulated in every market of our presence, we will not go to the. Yes.

So yes, great. Well, wonderful. That, that was a wonderful answer. And obviously it's extremely important for platforms to comply with regulations and to ensure that's in order before supporting, you know, the product in any, any jurisdiction. But just based on that, I think this is a good question from the audience that we can kind of. That relates to that default. 1234 is asking what is you Hodler's relationship with traditional banks in general? Do you hold part of liquidity and instruments such as bonds? Can you offer more information in regards to that?

Yeah, excellent question. So look, we are again building bridges between traditional and crypto defined C5. That being said, we have all relevant integrations with a number of crypto service providers. So we're integrated with all major exchanges like Kraken, Binance, Hobby, Coinbase, OKEx. So some number, of course we have some integrations with, with the DEFI protocols like Uniswap on one hand. On the other hand, we have integrations with a number of different banks in different regions, of course, mostly in Europe with different kind of payment infrastructures. But speaking about both sides, crypto and fiat, we needed only in order to access liquidity. So nothing about taking some bonds on our balance sheet, nothing about staking with crypto or buying some, some securities from, from, from banks. So again, long story short, we need banks in order to provide you guys as our customers with access to fiat. So and we need integrations with the crypto exchanges in order to perform all conversion operations and in order to manage our FX positions. So simple like that.

Yeah. So Ilya, I'm curious to know. Right now with the whole Celsius crisis happening, a lot of people are saying not your keys, not your crypto. I want to get your take on that and then I also want to hear how youhodler guarantees security on the platform.

Yeah, it's a very, very important, very, very big question. So again, let's start from the risk management. And by the way, I can see a question about my background in the chat. So our background as founders of youhodler is mostly from traditional finance. So we have like around 20 years of experience working for, for banks and for online trading with different financial assets. So of course we have blockchain background, but blockchain background is not like something that you could collect during the last 20 years. So mostly again we're speaking about traditional finance, banking and trading and having our experience with traditional finance and again witnessing a number of crises. So I'm not, maybe I'm not too old, but unfortunately I'm not too young and I still remember the case with Lehman Brothers and just having this kind of experience in the past. We care about our funds, we care about our balance sheet and we care about our customer funds. So that's why we pay great attention to risk management in general. We do not again take a third party risks. Speaking about placing any kind of investments under third party service providers. We're self efficient. So then speaking about security, I think it's important to speak about custody. So our custody is organized with some number of layers of security and number of. So basically we have quite a complex structure of our custody as a core. We use our own solution. Plus to this we have integrated two solutions from Ledger Enterprise and we are very happy with their solution and fireblock solution as an additional pieces of our custody and additional layers of security. So plus to this, as I already said, we already have a number of bank accounts in order to have cash there and to have a liquidity in order to execute all relevant operations. And of course we have some number of crypto service providers integrated. But again we need them in order to perform all relevant operations. The key principle is that we always have enough liquidity and highly liquid assets basically in cash in order to cover all obligations or liabilities. So the balance sheet is just all the time healthy because again, we do not lock funds somewhere outside of the platform. So then speaking about security, Actually we invest a lot into the topic. So we perform pen testing of our platform and all its services at least once a quarter. And don't ask me why we don't publish the results of our pen testing because if we find something, we immediately instantly improve it. So what else? Of course we are subject to a number of audits, mostly related actually to KYC and IML requirements. And actually we invest a lot in our compliance system in order to on one hand to be fully compliant with all global and local regulations and on the other hand to be still easy to use to our customers. And I understand that for some of users compliance could be boring topic, but in reality it's not. Because if you as a service provider follow all regulatory requirements in terms of compliance and iml, you're protected in terms of. You're additionally protected from potential hacks, from potential illicit activities or from potential band that could come from from some regulators. I can give you an example like just to avoid blaming anyone but many of you guys, I believe I remember a case with one of the European and very big payment provider, right? They were not 100 compliant with local regulations at the market of their presence and they got banned by local regulator for three years and many, many customers just stuck waiting for their cash out of the system of this payment provider. So in order to avoid this kind of situation, we do our best in order to invest in KYC and AML in order to be compliant. But again as I said, easy to use for just users, our lovely users.

Right Ilya, do you think that. I think and I'm reading this a lot now as well and seeing, you know, there's more awareness with people maybe wanting to switch over to hardware wallets given the recent events that we've been witnessing in the crypto industry. Do you think that's going to impact you Hodler at all or you know, does that. What are your thoughts on that?

Actually no. So I like hardware wallets, I have my personal hardware wallets as well. By the way, we are partnering with Ledger. So as I said, we are using their Ledger enterprise solution for our custody but at the same time we use ledger Nano devices. We even have set of ledger Nano branded, branded nano devices and we fully welcome Users who use both ways online, offline, because actually it's right way to manage your assets. Again, it's something like this bubble strategy. You should store the majority of funds at a secure way with highly committed assets, low risk and you should use the rest. But again, keep in mind that nothing new. So nothing new with crypto. We have experienced this many times in the past on the traditional market. We all use banks. We can be happy with that. We can be not but an alternative to banks. If we forget for a second about crypto is cash. How good is to have cash at your apartment, the kitchen? Of course it will be safe until someone will steal it somehow. But money should work, money should make money. It's just the main principle for money management. So that's why it's better to distribute it. It's better to use part of your funds at cold storage hardware wallet, but still it's better to use another part operating on the market. And by the way, speaking about building bridges, this is not for short term roadmap, but we have it. I think, I think it's more about like midterm roadmap. We will integrate a connection between hardware wallets and our platform, our application just to simplify access from your youhoder wallet online, you holder wallet mobile or web one with your hardware device just to simplify and access both ways. So and plus to this we are working on an integration from other side from hardware device. So yeah, it's something. Something to. To come.

Yeah, wonderful. Well, I love that answer. I think it's a great answer. Makes a lot of sense in my mind. Ilya. I know that there are. Well actually in the audience, Max Petner is asking credit card and I was going to ask you that as well. Are there plans to release some sort of a credit card associated with you? Hodler?

Yes, short answer, yes. And so basically, you know, we already have like 90, maybe 80% of everything needed in order to operate like a new kind of crypto to Fiat Bank. So but as you know that the last mile is always like the most complicated, the most difficult. So but we are going into this direction and yes, we have credit cards on our roadmap for the short and midterm. It will be organized in partnership with some of our trusted service providers, payment providers. For the long term perspective, I think we will offer it in the more like natural way into the platform. But again, long story short, short answer is yes.

Great. I'm going to take another question from the audience and keep those questions coming our way. These are Very good. Alex, TZM is asking all businesses have weaknesses or improvements that need to be, you know, improved. What is youhodler's weakness that needs improving? And I think that's a great question because obviously no business is perfect, right? So Ilya, what, what are your thoughts on that?

Great question. So since the beginning we were always focused on efficiency. So we are not ICO backed. So meaning we didn't paste a lot of money into initial launch of the platform, initial marketing campaigns and all that stuff. So our strategy was always very conservative. We were always moving step by step, very accurately with everything. So on one side this is good and because of that we are very sustainable. But on other side of course it also raised some, some weaknesses. Like for example, of course we're not that big like some other companies who started from like 50 million ICO. Right. So we still need to promote ourselves more. We still need to get into some new markets. So basically the first point I think is about marketing. So the second point is about regulation. But this is not about weaknesses actually this is about challenges. Because again as I said, we are already a regulated financial institution. So but in order to operate not just globally, even, even inside Europe, we have to apply for many different licenses. Like currently what do we have? We have Switzerland and we have our head office in Switzerland and we regulated financial intermediary, we are regulated pawn broker. So we are crypto asset service provider in Cyprus. But so we also in the process of applying for some additional licenses to maybe provide you with some secrets. Actually it's not a big secret. So we just recently opened our branch in France, in Paris. So we have hired some teammates actually excellent teammates, they're well experienced. So and now we are in the active phase of our application for sun license in France. So we have pretty much similar process in Italy. So we have pretty much similar process in Spain and in some other countries as well. Again, it's not like about witness weaknesses, it's more like about challenges. And even if we again will speak about the crisis, I think crisis is just again a time of opportunity and those ones who will keep investing into the infrastructure will win the market after the crisis. So our plan is to keep investing into infrastructure in terms of legal structure, in terms of technology, in terms of our team. So. Yeah, yeah, so and maybe one more point, I just mentioned that we keep investing into the infrastructure. Again it's not like about weaknesses, again it's about challenges. So we're getting more and more load to our systems. That's why we always need to upgrade our systems. Right. Because now we are already speaking about like millions of people, millions of operations, billions of, you know, volumes. So we constantly need to improve and upgrade all our systems. By the way, guys, for this night I think we will plan some maintenance for, for a short period of time just to upgrade our systems. So again, it's just a challenge. So we should to keep investing into everything, infrastructure, legal structure, technology and people. And we do that.

Yeah, wonderful. Well, those are great updates. I'm also wondering, Ilya, so you mentioned that there is a potential credit card coming soon. Are there any other features you can talk about? For instance, you know, customer support or anything else that you are planning that youhodler is planning to implement moving forward?

Yeah. Before answering the question and thank you for this reminder, Rachel, I'd like to say big, big thank you to our customer support and our tech support and our finance team because they are doing a great job. Can you imagine after the Celsius event we got like enormous amount of requests to our customer support finance team everywhere. So people got scary. Right. But our customer support, you know, did a perfect job. So thank you guys, you're the best. So keep it up. And of course we'll keep investing into our team. Of course, for sure. So as for product features, again, but I think I have already disclosed some features. So new branches, new markets, new languages, new security features by the way. So we're constantly upgrading our system in terms of security features. Like for example, in a few weeks you will see some interesting anti phishing tools and not on the anti phishing tools. So I have already disclosed one DeFi related product coming during the next few weeks. So and as I said, we are investing a lot into our stability. By the way, I can see in the chat question in regards to 14th of June, something happened during the night. So yeah, it's just a good example. We got an issue, hardware issue with one of our hosting providers during the night and that caused some delays and execution. So we have to improve it and we invest a lot in this infrastructure and so this will be more stable. So this part. Yeah, actually a lot, a lot of things.

Wonderful. Well, I'll just read a, a comment because it's very positive. Kurt Love says you got this. I agree. Like I said, you know, we are in a, in crypto winter, we're in a bear market and Ilya, you just are answering these questions and you're so optimistic about everything, which is great because you know, bear markets, you know, I guess, you know what I'm reading And what I think it's a great opportunity actually to build and to buy.

It's a great opportunity and actually no surprises, nothing new. It's just another cycle. Crypto is a part of much, much bigger, much bigger market. Crypto market already proved its resilience. So market just becoming mature, just becoming stronger, healthier and yeah, so it's just another cycle guys. Stay strong and yeah, right. We'll be okay.

Right. This is actually a great question that just came in and keep, keep coming, keep the questions coming. We do have a few minutes. SIPO K is asking, do you have investment packages for people with no significant knowledge in crypto investments?

Great question, but unfortunately my answer is no. So as I said, in order to be successful we have to focus on one significant feature at one single moment of time. Right. So we have too many of things to be implemented. Speaking about this educational content and support for newbies, I think it's something to be developed in the future. But at the same time I think our main contribution to this topic is that since the beginning we are building a platform which is easy to use for just regular people, not for crypto geeks. So youhodler is not for crypto geeks. Youhodler is for normal people, regular people, easy to use. But yes, I think it's something to consider, maybe add in the future into our product offerings.

Ease of use is so important for the mainstream and non crypto natives. So I appreciate hearing that. That's extremely important. I'm going to take probably just one more question, maybe two. Rob Blitz is asking, will you Hodler buy Bitcoin and keep it long term on their balance sheet?

No, no, actually we are very conservative guys again and again we are conservative with every single piece of this big puzzle. So we have some strong treasury rules. So we have some limits for every single coin. So speaking about our own funds on our treasury, so if we go below the limit we buy, if we go above the limit we sell. So and limits are pretty much conservative and again that's why we are stable. Just to maybe to sum up, we do not risk customer funds, we do not stake them externally, we do not lock them on defy or under a third party financial institutions. At the same time we have conservative approach in regards to to our own balance sheet. We are not like Michael Sailor, so we are very conservative. Again, limits, ups and downs, just we play with these limits.

Great. Okay, I have time for one more question then we will actually have to end the ama. But Ilya, you've been great. So Far Sebastian is asking what were the beginnings of you Hodler? So maybe when was it launched? What was your first minimum viable product and how did you get people interested in it?

Great question and I have two answers. The first answer is that we have started from crypto backed lending solution. So we have created initially one simple product, crypto backed loan. It was right after an ICO hype where people just got a lot of crypto and many people did not want to sell it and we just simply offered one simple product, simple, very flat crypto backed lending solution and we got proof from the market and then we started our development. So we have reached our break even. Just again to give you a timeline. So we have started the development in 2017. The first onboarded customer we got November 2018. We got our break even in June 2020 and we keep growing like step by step and everything started from crypto backlining solution. But the second answer, which is much more romantic, is that right before you, Hodler, we had another project about tokenization of human intelligence. So the idea was about tokenization of human obligations, human ideas and a lot of different things. It was a very romantic project. Thanks to this project we have built a core of our team and actually we have built a set of smart contracts and we have used one of them to create actually crypto backed lending solution. So it's a long story, very romantic story. I will be happy to tell you more sometime in the future. But just keep in mind that tokenization of human intelligence pretty much connected to the idea of web even not web three, Web five. And we have something on our backpack. Cool.

Well Ilya, thank you. Unfortunately we're out of time and I know we have a lot of questions from the audience. Ilya, if audience members want to reach out to you and ask their questions, how can they do that anytime?

I think the easiest way is just to submit them to our customer support chat. We will answer everything. Plus to this we have Twitter. So basically we have all major social networks. Simply submit a question there and our marketing and support team will do our best in order to provide you with the answers.

Awesome. Well, I just want to say thank you again Ilya. You have been great. You've answered a lot of really important questions, especially considering market conditions today. Audience, thank you guys so much for being so interactive with us. We really appreciate it. And just to reminder, just a reminder, please subscribe to our YouTube. We will do more of these wonderful amas moving forward. So thanks again to everyone and we hope to see you next time.

Thank you, Rachel. And thank. Thank you. Thank you, guys.

Thank you. Goodbye.

Bye. Bye. Bye.