Should you buy the dip before “Moonvember” takes off? IOST, ACH | The Market Report w/ Mark Yusko

Sam.

Hello, friends and welcome to another episode of the Market Report on cointelegraph. I'm your host Benton reporting to you live from New York City today at NFT nyc, we're joined by our resident experts Jordan Finiseth and Marcel Peckman. Jordan uses background in psychology and human behavior to spot the emerging trends in the crypto markets. And Marcel Peckman applies to 17 years of experience trading derivatives options and futures to the crypto derivatives markets. What is up fellas? Excited for another episode today? What's going on this week? Jordan, Marcel, how we doing today?

I'm doing good, man. Look like the volatility in the market, it's getting a little dicey. I like it.

Yeah, I like to see on one of those Sheba guys and whatever who crazy coins that's been up 200, 400 their start to, to go down. Yeah. It's not fortunate to see people losing money, but it's good to see that there's some reasonability or some analytical team behind the market and it's not only games and gamble.

Love it. And, and thank you for everyone for joining. I see Conrad joining up again. Tuning in today's show we got Luis. Tell us where you're tuning in from. We want to hear from you around the globe. We have a global audience here tuning in to find out what's going to happen this week in the markets. I know we've had a little bit of consolidation seems like with bitcoin we're going to get into that in some of our news this week. So if you have questions about sheep in particular, we're going to be addressing that. We're also going to be diving into bitcoin and possible consolidation where we're heading to next. Looks like we got Koro always tuning in. Love to see it. Adrian, thanks for tuning in today. Love to have you all along for the ride. And our special guest today, Mark Yusco, you don't want to miss this. He's going to give us some awesome insights about Web3. So if you have questions, we're going to be kind of chiming in on the chat. We're going to be monitoring that. We want to hear from you all. So tell us what you got, what kind of questions you have and we're going to be answering them along the way. Don't forget about our markets pro segment. We're going to do our Coin Watch recap. We're going to tell you about some of the biggest movers with that vortex in news, quakes. And then lastly, we have Our our expert take from Marcel. He's going to be diving into stable coins today. Impossible regulations and about what is the future with stable coins, especially globally and what that means for regulators. So let's go ahead and dive into our markets news segment this week we got a lot of action packed stuff to get into so let's go ahead and dive in foreign. For those of you who don't know, October 31st was the Bitcoin white paper day. If you didn't see the video, we had a little friend, Gilbert Godfrey, he was read the whole white paper. If you haven't checked it out go to our YouTube channel real quick. We got to pull up a real tweet. Danilo, if you wouldn't mind just pulling up my screen for a second to highlight Sir Gilbert Godfrey here we have a, a whole video where he read the entire white paper. Looks like my screen is a little funky today. But uh, let's get back to uh, our chat. Looks like I'm on mobile today. But uh, yeah. So uh, in regards to what's happening right now, uh, with, with sheep, I don't know if you guys have been tuning into some of that latest news. We have an article from Cointelegraph what's going on with sheep? We saw it. We, we covered last week where a holder bought it looks like about 8, 000 worth of sheep last August and now that's worth $5.7 billion. What does this mean when, when he starts to move this around to separate wallets? Is this scary for sheep holders? Jordan, what's your take on what's happening right now and what this could potentially mean for the future of sheep?

Well that's just good OPSEC right there. Operational security. If you hold $5 billion in one wallet especially like it's imagine like a metamask wall or something like yeah, gets is right for the pick and somebody's come and try and hack that. So I think a lot of it was them splitting that up maybe like if they are trying to sell it they, it would not be smart to try and sell it all at once because that would completely tank the market. I think it might be making more long term plays splitting it up. They might start taking, I would probably take some profits but it's, it's scary whenever something like that happens. Do I think long term? I think it's still got a good run up and this is just my opinion but I think it's going to go above where it was previously eventually. But that's just like it's on Coinbase. It's not going to just go away, folks. So that's going to scare people. It's going to tank. Price is going to go down. Some people are going to be like, buy the dip. It's gonna buy a dip. And then dogecoin or something's going to start running again and there goes sheep chasing that, chasing after that. Doge, I don't know. What do you think, Marcel?

I agree, Jordan. When it reaches Coinbase Coin. Coinbase stage, when It's a top 10 coin, when it's moving so much liquidity around, it's not going to go away, same as happened to dodge Coin. But as for the whale moving those coins, he could be simply moving it to a defi project to lend liquidity, for example, so to earn more ships. So he's not willing to sell those for dollars. So I'm very skeptical. When we see those large transactions around, people assume that people that those whales are selling. But that's not always true.

I mean, could this be a potential situation where he's. He's playing this on like a 4D chessboard, where he's maybe scaring some folks by moving it to certain wallets? People see that and then they start to sell off, then he shorts it or he picks up more bags at a lower price and then it continues to run up. Is that even a possibility? Marcel, you're shaking your head. Tell me what's up.

No, his position is too large to do that. Even if he shorted like a hundred million dollars, his positions 57 times larger than that, so it's not worth it.

Well, let's just put ourselves in this person's place. Like, what would you do if you can't just sell it all, you know, like, once it got out there, you're like, oh, crap, if I even touch, if I touch one sheep in that wallet, people are gonna freak that if they would have just moved 100 people would be like, oh, my God, he's doing stuff. And the, the threat would have been there and the price would have tanked just like it did right now. Right? That's just human psychology. Like, is this person gonna, like, if they really did the. They got this $5 billion nest egg, if they're intelligent, they'll figure out the way to cash that out maximally over the next decade, if possible. So, like, slow your roll, people. Unless it's somebody that's completely nefarious and, like, I'm gonna pump the out of this and then tank it. That's a Possibility. But enjoy the roller coaster ride if that's the case. It's this crypto, man.

My fear is like if, if I had those bags, it's like my bags are so big. Like how do you unload it? It's just like you have to take small, little bite sized chunks at a time. All right, I'm going to pull up this tweet real quick. Let's see if we can pull this up. So this was the actual tweet where it says the wallet had $8,000 worth of sheep last August. It's now worth 5.7 billion. 5.7 billion in the last year. He owns 16% of the market cap. Let us know in chat here. Like, does that scare you when, when you see a project like this and, and one bag holder could potentially tank the whole market? Like, I, I'm, I'm curious to see. It looks like Conrado is saying that he is concerned Sheba's dead. For now. This time is over for now. Maybe another time. All those meme coiners that are watching in today, let us know, are you a dogecoiner? Are you a Shiba Inu? Where. Where are you at with the market, especially in regards to meme, but let us know. So I'm going to go ahead and take that tweet down.

I want to give my favorite meme coin is Cardano. We have Charles. Charles.

Great. I will. I'm going to dive into the. The article here that we published for Coin Telegraph. Real quick, this kind of goes more into detail. And so this is actually showing you here in this tweet. Remember when everyone was wondering if this guy who turned 8k and a 5 billion actually lost access to his wallet? Well, proof is this week he didn't lose access to his wallet. And so you can see on the transactions here on Etherscan, you can see he's moving all of these transactions here. So proof is in the pudding, folks.

Hey, at least they got like, at least they got a good backing to take care of these e fees, man. Getting ridiculous. At least they don't have to worry about that. Got enough like.

Exactly. Yeah. Well, all right. To, to move on to the broader market here. We, we did see bitcoin kind of consolidate. And so like right now we're kind of hovering around 61K. Where, where were you guys kind of seeing like what's next here in, in the month ahead for bitcoin? Marcel, what are your thoughts about what's going on with bitcoin in particular right now?

Okay, so we had a 40 rally in October. So. And bitcoin is a volatile asset. Its volatility is roughly 5% per day. So a 15 move which is three times the daily volatility, it's not that much. So if we go down to 53, 000, it's not changing the, the trends, the secular trend that's been seen over the last four, eight years. Yeah, there are some risks, like regulatory risks, there are some uncertainties regarding miners, for example, if they're successfully being able to relocate outside China. But all in all, if governments continue to print money desperately like they are doing trillions at a time, bitcoin scarcity will be the most important, most decisive and important factor for, for the coin to continue moving up. So don't Worry if there's a 15 correction down to $53,000, we're still good. What do you say, Jordan?

Yeah, in my opinion a correction like that is actually a good thing. Like it went like you said, it went from what, like $30,000 to $60,000 in like no time at all. If it kept going and went up to like $8,000 then we'd all be like, oh crap. That's when you like start worrying. But when it actually does like normal market cycles and it's like, okay, let me take a break and consolidate. And we get. So in every bull market cycle there's little cycles in it. You get a bull market in bull market run. In bitcoin, it takes a break, money flows into the altcoins. You get a little mini alt season and then it repeats kind of thing. We're doing that right now. All the new people are kind of freaking out. All the old people are like hold my beer. Like yeah, we're just, we know what's going on if you pay attention. And yeah, there's always an outside chance that a regulation or some something is good. China is going to ban bitcoin again, right? Oh my God. And like the market will tank. But that's just the name of the game in this game.

Well, let's see what the charts are showing us right now. I'm going to show us. This looks like the bitcoin chart. Four hour chart here. Looks like we're still kind of in this ascending wedge pattern. These V waps do show that, that we bounced off of that and we're kind of hovering around this, this break point here of the previous all time high that was made last week. This pink line that we see here is that that 200 day moving average is kind of flatlining which I, I think the story that it's kind of telling me right now is, is we are kind of in this consolidation mode. So what does that mean for other altcoins? So I'm going to go ahead and pull up our chart. One of the biggest coins this week that we've seen absolutely has been on a tear. Solana, look at this thing. This thing has been ripping all, all time highs again in this kind of ascending wedge pattern. We see the V waps. The price is well above these V waps and this 200 day moving average here. This thing is in an upward tre. This tells me, I think Salana is going to have some more upward momentum breaking through this wedge. We'll probably see a pullback, but I think, I mean we could break well through 250 and above. I know the talk of the town recently has been all about Salana and it just seems like things are just lining up very nicely considering that we're consolidating right now for bitcoin. So super excited for alts, especially eth2. Let's kind of quickly pull up that chart. We had all time highs this week for ETH. We're kind of hovering right around 4400 now. Let's wait for this to load in. This thing's looking juicy. I love to see this little pink line here, that 200 day average. This is Big Chad's 200 day average, by the way. This is what he showed us a few weeks ago in this upward trend. Absolutely love it. It broke through this ascending wedge. I mean some of these charts are just ridiculous. I'm not sure what you all think about what's happening with some of these altcoins right now. But let's quickly touch on. Where do you think these altcoins are heading next? Are we going to see pullbacks? Are we going to see more all time highs with some of these altcoins? Marcel, what do you think?

I think we're going to see some more all time highs. You've seen a lot like with Solana and I mentioned before, the E feast like the, the competitors for you kind of started starting to see a little bump up in price action because trying to do a transaction on Ethereum is costing like a hundred dollars these days. So I think we're gonna get in like at the same time. Bitcoin's in the background chilling out. So I think, I think we might, I think we're in an old season right now and I think we'll see some more higher prices. What do you think Marcel?

I don't know when people say that Ethereum just hit all time high. Yeah in US dollar terms but if you price it in bitcoins it's still 50 below the, the cycle top that we have in 7 2017. So in the end I, I really think okay, if you are a good spotter for small altcoins, if you got the Sheba, if you got the binance coin from $50 to $600, that's great, you're a great trader, a great investor. But for the majority of the traders or investors, I think that simply sticking to 2 or 350 bitcoin and choose maybe 2 coins if they like. Okay. And stick it for 2 or 3 years for the long term would be better for the majority of the investors. But if you're a good trader. Yeah, sure, go ahead. We're looks like we're on an out season right now.

And so last question for you all both right now in the next two weeks are we above, are we below 60k? Jordan, what do you think?

Two weeks? Oh, I think we'll stay around 60k. We can fall down though. It's possible.

Marcel, what are your, what's your take?

I'm gonna take the bear side of this bat because the ETF stagnated at $1.1 billion after two days of inflow. So I'm kind of little disappointed right now.

Okay, very good takes here. Interesting insights about what's going on in the market. Like I said, we have so a little bit of consolidation with bitcoin but I think that's kind of helping some of these other altcoins run. Huge week for alts. We'll find out heading into this weekend so make sure that you are staying tuned. Let's hear from you all, what do you think? Are we going to be above 60k or are we going to be below 60k by the end of this weekend? Let us know what you think in the chat there for bitcoin. Also tell us what you think about the alts. Where are we heading? Are we heading more all time highs? We want to hear from you. Let us know in the chat. We're gonna be pulling them up. I know we have a huge guest today so make sure that you are tuning in. Especially we're gonna have Mark Yusco on from Morgan Creek Capital. You don't want to miss this next interview. If you haven't liked and subscribed too, go ahead and do so now. Coin telegraph on YouTube. The market report is every Thursday. We're Giving you the best insights on the market you can't get anywhere else. Folks, we got Marcel and Jordan here, the resident experts. They're giving you the hot takes that you can't find on the Internet except for Coin Telegraph. So go ahead and like subscribe. Let's go ahead and jump into our guest interview for today with Mr. Mark Yusco.

Foreign.

We have. Mark Yusko is the founder and Chief Investment Officer of Morgan Creek Capital. He's also the Managing partner of Morgan Creek Digital which is an early stage investor in blockchain technology, digital currency and digital assets through the firm's venture capital and Digital Asset Index Fund. Mr. Yusko has been at the forefront of institutional investing throughout his career. Thank you for joining us today. Mark, how are you?

No thanks and I apologize guys. I have no idea what is happening with my video, although I have a face for radio. So maybe this is better for your viewers. I tried everything. I mean I was using Brave and I thought maybe the pop up blocker got me. So then I went to Chrome. Still not working, but we'll just make the best of it. I apologize.

All good. I think your insights are going to be what is most important today. So we're super excited to have you here and dive in to some of the topics especially regarding the market and where what you're seeing around the space right now looks like we might have just lost Mark, but.

Yeah, no, no, I'm here, I'm here. They just told me to turn off the camera because it's not working. So now you get to see mwi. So.

All right, very good. So I guess to kind of like jump thing, jump into things like right away. You've mentioned in previous interview with Cointelegraph that blockchain technology is an operating system for the Internet of value. Can you kind of walk us through like what, what do you mean by that? And can you kind of break down some of those elements for us?

Yeah, look, I wrote about this in a letter three years ago. I had my aha moment and I couldn't make this up in Eureka, California behind the wheel of an rv. And it hit me that blockchain is an operating system. And so if we think about technology, it started in 54 with the mainframe. 14 years later we had the microchip in 68. 14 years later we had the personal computer in 82. Why it's always 14 years? I don't actually know. It has something to do with young people being the creative. Class 96 was the Internet. 2010 was the mobile net. And 2024 is the Internet of Value, or the Trustnet as I call it. And look, mainframes ran on Cobol and Fortran, Spark Workstation for microcomputers, DOS and Windows for personal computers, TCPIP for the Internet, iOS and Android for the mobile net, and now blockchain technology for the operating system for the Internet of Value. And it is such a big deal, people can't even comprehend how big it is because we're standing on the shoulders of giants, as Newton said, right? Client server technology, pardon my French, although I said that once to a French person who said, why do you say that? We're not vulgar. I actually don't know why we said, but it sucked, right? Client server technology sucked. And it's why Netflix almost went out of business twice. Because you didn't want to wait 4 days to download a movie on video on demand. That's not demand. And if you think about how the, the technology evolves and how this set of technologies is now standing on top of the Internet, we get an exponential curve of development from web 1 to web 2 to web 3. So huge upside, and really it's all about the operating system for this ability to exchange value in a trustless way.

And so I want to kind of follow up there with the Internet of Value. So what are your thoughts around can Bitcoin replace gold as that store of wealth? I know a lot of people talk about it. What is your thoughts on that?

For sure. So what I mean by Internet of value is if you think about the Internet itself, what did it do right? The Internet basically made information bidirectional. So if you go back to the dark ages, the church controlled information and they spewed from the pulpit to their community what they wanted them to hear or believe. And then the printing press broke that monopoly and then governments basically took over and they spewed information through the network televisions or state sponsored television. And the media was where you got your information. Well, that got busted by the Internet. Now information could be created. Like if I want to know what's going on in the election in Argentina, I don't wait for a writer to write a story, to go to an editor, to get their bias, to go to a newspaper for the next day. I go on Twitter and I watch a periscope of people standing in line in Argentina chanting the guy's name. That gives me way more insight. And so that information flows bidirectionally. And so now value has been controlled by the banking cabal for 800 years. And that just got busted by blockchain technology. So money, the only money in the world is gold. Everything else is credit. And it's backed by debt. Currency. Every currency in the history of mankind has been backed by debt. Three quarters of those currencies have gone away. They've literally gone to zero. All the others will too. So gold for 5,000 years has been money. One ounce bought a fine person suit in the age of, you know, suit of armor to a zoot suit to a fine man suit on Saville Row today. One ounce bought a fine man suit for 5,000 years. The next 5,000 will be all about bitcoin. Why? Because bitcoin is digital gold. It has all the elements of gold. It's more scarce than gold. The stock to flow ratio, it is more portable and more divisible. I don't know if you guys have seen the movie Knight's tale, right? Where Heath ledger wins the sword tournament. He gets that gold calf and he literally bangs it on the table. Breaks off, he says, go do what you do with that. That's a really bad way to split up wealth. We can go to eight decimal points. That's why my hashtag on or my handle on Twitter is at MarkusCo. Hashtag 2.1 quadrillion. That's how many satoshis there are. That's eight decimal points of bitcoin. And we got to stop talking about bitcoin and the price of bitcoin. We got to go to satoshis because there's plenty of satoshis for everybody.

Exactly. Love that insight.

In your opinion, should bitcoin only be used as a store wealth in the future and like maybe other coins be used for the daily transaction or you were just mentioning all the quadrillion satoshis. You think that we should be using bitcoin for daily transactions at a satoshi level?

Ah, it's a great question. I probably come down on the side of bitcoin is digital gold and therefore store of value. And that we should use the bitcoin blockchain, the bitcoin rails, to make payments across the rails, things like strike and other applications where we're using the rail to transfer currency back and forth. I think makes better sense. I think there is a day far in the future when it's possible that all money could be bitcoin. It's possible. I'm a huge believer that bitcoin gold equivalent is a slam dunk. And that's a 10 bagger from here. That's easy. That's baked in. Now Murray Stahl at Horizon Kinetics makes a very elegant argument that beyond that there's another 10x. So that's 100x from here to all of Global M2. I'm not quite there yet. I don't think the governments and nation states will disappear tomorrow. I think they're on their way to being displaced, but I think it's going to take a while. So I tweeted the other day that the Gandhi quote, first they ignore you. Okay, that was 2009-15. Then they laugh at you. That was 15 to 21. Then they fight you. That's right now. And how long the fight lasts, I don't really know. But we've already won, so it's not about winning in the future. We've already won. And anyone who has embraced these assets, digital assets and. Except for the nonsense coins. Okay, so Dogecoin, Sheba, all that garbage, I don't even want to talk about it. People can trade them, knock themselves out, and look, they are a true Ponzi. And that's fine. Ponzis can work until they don't. But let's focus our time together on things that matter, things that will improve life and humanity, things like Bitcoin, things like Axie Infinity. Places where there's value added to what we're all trying to accomplish.

And do you have like, in the short term, do you have a projection on where you think the current Bitcoin momentum is headed?

Look, I think the daily price of Bitcoin doesn't matter at all. I think people look at the daily price of Bitcoin are just wasting time. You should accumulate ownership of the network. It is the most valuable, most secure, most powerful computing network the world has ever seen. It will continue to be. The value of the network grows exponentially and people can't do. People can't do math. Right. If I say, what's two times two? Everybody listening says four. Okay, what's 17 times 23? I'll wait. That is the limit of human intelligence. The average person cannot do that calculation without a calculator. So if I say, how are you on non linear regression? Not very good. And again, you can't. See, if I took 10 linear. I'm sorry, 20 linear steps across my office, I would get to the other side of the office. If I take 20 exponential steps, I go around the world twice and people are like, oh, that's bullshit. I'm like, no, it's real. Just do the math. And so when people look at the daily price of Bitcoin, oh, is it going to go up? Is it going to go down? It doesn't matter. The price is not the value. The price is what two people agree to exchange a small amount of that asset. The value is the value of the network. And the network value today is somewhere between 35k and 68k. I don't know what the exact number is. Depends on your decay factor in the Metcalfe's law calculation, but it's somewhere in that range. And that number is going to continue to go up following the parabola, as all networks do, because Metcalfe's law is law. That's why it's called the law. And so the daily price is just what speculators on the margin like that marginal trade occur. So that's a long winded way of saying I don't ever talk about the short term price of Bitcoin or any other asset because a good economist says what or when, never together. So I can tell you with confidence that we're going to 250k, absolute confidence. I can't tell you when because I don't know how stupid people will be in the short term and I don't know how smart they'll be in the long term. So the long term smart ones will keep accumulating. Like I was on cnbc back in 2000, whatever, it was 19 and that day it went from 10,000 to 8,000, like literally five minutes before I went on. And so everybody's like, oh, so what do you think? Now I'm like five and like what? Like buy it, buy it today, buy it tomorrow, buy it next week, buy it the week after, buy it the week after and just keep accumulating. Stop talking about the price. Accumulate the network. Anyway, sorry, I love the question, but it, it just doesn't matter.

Makes sense. No, I agree 100%. So mark on, on a Scott Melker interview on YouTube, you said that fiat money will continue to exist via cbdc, but in a free and competitive market. Why would anyone continue trusting governments to handle their money?

Oh, such a great question. Absolutely incredible question. Guns, right? That's the reason. And here's the thing. I will continue to opt out with a portion of my wealth, an increasing portion of my wealth. But for now, I will live in the United States and I will pay my taxes in fiat and I will buy my groceries in fiat and I will be a good happy citizen. But you're absolutely right. Every government in the history of mankind has eventually destroyed their currency through profligate spending. So what happens is governments are formed. They start democratically, they start in a robust kind of friendly, we're here to help way. And they migrate to absolute power corrupts absolutely. They migrate to despotism, ultimately to dictatorships and cronyism. And so everybody says, well, capitalism is bad. No, capitalism is awesome. Capitalism is the best ism that there is. Cronyism is bad, dictatorships are bad. But over the history of time, whether it was the Roman Empire, the Ottoman Empire, it all ends up with cronies at the top dividing up the assets and then devaluing the currency to make their assets go up and impoverish the masses. So the masses are dependent on them. It's happening right before our eyes in the United States. Nobody likes to talk about it. And it is the dictator playbook. And that's fine, but you don't have to play along. So to your point, why would we trust the governments? Well, we shouldn't because we know since 1913 the plan, right? Everybody says, oh, well, wealth and income inequality are all time highs. Why is that? What do we do? Like idiots. That was the fucking plan. The plan all along to siphon the money to the top of the pyramid. And I don't mean to get so excited about this, but it makes me crazy that it isn't about whether we should trust the governments. No, of course we should not. Because governments don't exist to make our lives better. They exist to make their lives better. Right? If you go back to the founding fathers, right, it was a voluntary position. You spent two years, then you went back to your farm and you ran your farm. Now it takes $100 million to get into a Senate seat. Most people don't have a hundred million dollars. So how do they do that? They make promises to people who give them money and then they have to actually fulfill those promises, like approve freaking drugs that kill people, okay? And all kinds of other things that they shouldn't do. And it's so frustrating because on top of it, they're in control of fiat currency. And everybody says, oh, the Fed and the government, they're separate. Bullshit. They are one. And the goal is to concentrate the wealth at the top, devalue the currency and boil the frogs. And we're the frogs in the water thinking, oh, this is a very nice hot tub. And then we're paralyzed and we can't jump out anyway.

You bring up some great.

I don't feel strongly about that though, guys.

I couldn't tell. I couldn't tell. Go ahead, Marcel.

My question is, do you see any Way any solution that governance could do to make the CBDC better than fiat, maybe.

Oh, God. CBDCs are evil incarnate. They are the worst of everything that we've worked so hard to create in technology. I'm sure you guys have seen, you know, the giant dude from the bis, right, talking about this. If you haven't seen it, you gotta see it. I mean, the dude's 500 pounds if he's an ounce. And to sit there and say, of course governments have to be in control of the currencies because we need to determine who and when and how you spend your money. So think about this dystopian, okay? You work all week and you get paid. And this fat guy says, no, if you don't spend your money at these four places by the end of next Friday, it goes away. Or worse, this nominee to be the head of the occasion, okay? Who's an avowed communist, first of all. Problem second says no, we should abolish the banks, okay? Which might not be the worst thing in the world and we can all go to bitcoin, but then we should make the Fed the only bank and people should be forced to put their money in the Fed bank so that if I, and she said this, if I want to confiscate it in the future to stem inflation, I should be able to do that. Are you freaking kidding me? I mean, seriously, that's how you want to manage, command and control the people in the economy, the people that create the wealth. So I think I forgot the question.

If there's a way out of good CBDC.

Okay, no, no, no. There is no good CBDC. CBDCs are evil incarnate. They are surveillance tools used to exacerbate all the negative aspects of fiat. Because you can turn, you can pro. You can program money. Programmable money at its root can be good, like Bitcoin at its most evil. CBDC can be, again, the. The worst possible form of money vanishing money. Inflation or inflation ruled money that can be. Imagine this, right? You jaywalk and your social score goes down. And now you can't use your money until you do something to get your social score up. Absolute insanity, right? And look, if you do something wrong and you break a law, you can be punished, you can go to jail, but no one should capriciously be able to take your wealth from you for no good reason, at least in my view.

And I, I've said that in the past, like CBDCs are crypto in disguise. It's a facade. It's A fugazi, like.

But they're not crypto. No, they're not crypto. They are electronic fiat. They are not crypto. They are not decentralized. They are centralized. They're evil. And look, we're gonna have them. And then I say, that's why I say I live in the United States now. If there comes a point where the CBDC has the ability to confiscate my wealth, I will may find some other place. I mean, crazy.

Yes. And so I, I do have one last question for you here. And we're going to kind of wrap things up. So, like, as somebody who keeps a close eye on the evolution of the Internet, Web 1, Web 2.0, now Web 3.0. Like, where do you see this evolution going? And what is that role of cryptocurrencies inside of this evolution?

All right, crypto will run everything. Everything will work with crypto as the fuel, right? So imagine a world where we sit in the back of our autonomous vehicle. You won't drive. It'll actually drive you. It pulls into the charging station, it doesn't take two hours, takes two minutes. You won't get out of the freaking car and put a plastic card in the machine. Are you kidding me? The car will pay the machine. Then the car will pull away. You get stuck in traffic, you want to go in the fast lane. It won't take a picture of your license plate and send you a bill for $4.10. The car will pay the lane. And then I will be a member of Waze Premium and it will tell me the fast way. It'll send all the rest of you all on the slow way. And I'll pay with crypto. So crypto will drive everything. Web 1.0 was big. Microsoft, Intel, Cisco big. But that was the area under the curve. Think of a parabola going across the x axis to the y axis in the upper northwest quadrant of an XY chart. The left hand side is parallel to the X axis. The area of the curve doesn't even look like anything. But that was huge. Microsoft, Intel, Web2 is the knee of the curve. Now that area is bigger than the area to the left, and that is Apple and Netflix and Amazon and Alibaba. Much more wealth. But now we're going parabolic. Now we're going parallel to the Y axis. That's Web three. This will create more wealth than any technological innovation in our lifetime. It is the greatest wealth creation opportunity I will see in my lifetime. And I Look, I'm 58, I got a 10 year old. I'm going to be around a long time, but this is so big and so profound and it's why I went from spending 0% of my time on this in 2013 to 100% of my time today. And people look at me like, mark, you're an idiot. Why are you doing this? Why are you risking your career? I'm like, I'm not risking it. I'm making it anyway.

Love it. And we love your enthusiasm about the crypto space and we appreciate you sharing that enthusiasm with our viewers today.

Us.

It was a great conversation. We appreciate Mark Yusko coming on today. Love having you on, man. Would love to have you on.

And next time I'll fix the video problem again. Although I do have a face for video and I don't want to stand next to you three handsome guys. I don't know, it'd be bad for me.

We appreciate you jumping on today. Thank you so much, Mark.

All right, take care, guys. Thank you.

Deal. All right. Wow. Passionate enthusiasm right there. Love to see that. That's why you're in the crypto space. Sounds like we have a bright future ahead of us and just kind of thinking about what that means for, you know, the potential evolution of society, of the world, you name it. Mark, touch on a lot today. I do want to kind of shift over. We got a lot of stuff coming from Marcel today about stablecoins. So let's go ahead and jump into his expert segment. So today, I'm sorry, we're doing Markets Pro. We got Markets Pro coming in. All right, folks, the News Quake service, have you heard of it? If you haven't now, you have. This is a service brought to you by Markets Pro that helps traders stay on top of important news developments. News Quakes are automated alerts that instantly notify when users are, when users market moving events happen. So today we're going to jump into Iost. Danil, if we want to go ahead and pull up the chart, we saw some massive gains on IOST this week. We see that News quake there on the bottom. That was due to a partnership between IOST's NFT ecosystem and multi chain Digital Wallet Bitkeep. We see that little newsquake and we see that white line surge. That's why you get the Markets Pro services so that you get these newsquakes and it alerts you so that you know when to get in on the action. This was iost's chart jumped from 4 cents all the way up to 5 cents. It was a 16 increase. Hopefully you're able to get in on that one. The second coin watch that we're doing for this week is Alchemy Pay. And if you guys haven't heard of the Vortex Score, this is an absolutely brilliant part of Markets Pro. This is what I love to monitor on a daily basis. The Vortex Score is an algorithmic metric and what this does is it gives you a comparison between current market conditions and social conditions of that in the past. So let's go ahead and pull up Alchemy Pay. Danilo, if you wouldn't mind. We saw a record price increase against a $104 increase against Bitcoin this week. Alchemy Pay absolutely skyrocketed. The asset had been up already from $0.05 to $0.07 in and now what we saw was the Vortex score flash to 80. This went from 7 cents all the way up to 11 cents. We see that first circle there. Vortex score cracked 80. Next, you know, that white line price completely skyrocketed. Hopefully you all were able to get in on this token this week. So now, this time we're going to get into Marcel's segment about stable coins. So let's roll right into his expert takes for this week on stablecoins.

Okay, guys. So, So if you have been following coin on Telegraph, you know that on Monday the United States treasury released a report on stable coins. So basically the US treasury wants Congress to regulate or to announce who is going to be responsible for stablecoin issuer Regulators. Regulators. So they're willing to set some standards for the industry, but they're not sure if it's going to be the sec, the CFTC or the OCC who's going to effectively regulate in the standards. So, Danilo, can you share my screen please? So basically what they, what they are, what they are saying is, yeah, we need a regulation, but we, we can set the standards, but we need the Congress to urgently need an address. Address that. So decide who's going to be the OCC or the sec who's going to control it and regulate it? So they perceive it as a risk. So we need to discuss that if stablecoin really poses a risk to the general market or to crypto markets.

So are they trying to make the stable coin issuers kind of like banks? Is that what's going on here?

That's a good question, Jordan. Yes. So, yeah, similar to banks because they perceive stablecoins as a money market fund. What is a money market fund? It's a competitor to the savings account. It's money invested in bonds In Treasuries, in cash, in short term investments. So Trezor is not wrong in their assumption that stablecoin issuers are like money market fund managers. So we have Circle, who is behind a USD Coin, we have Paxos who is behind the Paxos Stablecoin and also the Binance US dollars. But they're missing a big point here. Let's imagine that tomorrow they put up a very strict regulation for stablecoin issuers. What happened is that those companies can simply move abroad outside of the United States to Cayman Islands or British Virgin Islands or whatever, just like Tether did in the past. And those clients, the market makers, the exchange, they also have entities abroad offshore. So they're going to basically say well we're not doing business with Americans, at least not directly. So you can't regulate us. They still can have and hold us treasures, they skill, they still can make US dollar withdrawals and transfers using international banks. They don't really need United States for that.

This kind of speaks to Mark's point like comparing like digital what a decentralized currency versus CBDCs, like decentralized currencies like Bitcoin, even Tether, USDC, they can just up and move and be like you can't ban me. Is that kind of that like there's not really any repercussions if they come down and drop the hammer on these USC or the stable coins, is there?

More or less. Because first, first of all when we say yeah, we have decentralized finance like I don't know, 40% of the deposits on the TVL of the hundred billion dollars are either from USD coin or from DAI, the stablecoin DAI, which in case is 60% backed by USDC coin. So yeah, centralized stablecoins are still a big part of our industry. And it's important for exchanges, it's important for market makers. Imagine I sell Bitcoin at Coinbase. Now I have dollars in my account at Coinbase. So I withdraw to the bank of America and then transfer it to Europe to buy on bits. It's not going to work. This fiat money does not flow together with trading for cryptos because we need something that is instant transferred. So that's why stablecoins are important to this interest. But in the worst case scenario, so those stable coins don't exist anymore, at least the centralized ones, okay, it's not the end of the world for the holders of those stable coins. First of all, as I said before, the companies can simply move out of the United States. And secondly well, they couldn't. They could simply. Okay, so we cannot use the USD coin anymore from Circle, you can use Tether. Oh, we cannot use Setter. So you're going to change to another one. There's. It's a cat and mice game. The regulators are not going to win.

Interesting.

Is there.

No.

Are there, are there concerns for people holding stable coins? Are there risks? Some people think that there's not any risks involved. Would you say that there's not risks?

Good, good question. Good point. Well, there is a risk, sure. For example, if government can prove that stablecoins are being used to finance terrorism or to, I don't know, do money laundering and stuff, they will go out of their way like even if it's another country to put those guys in jail or at least to stop halt operations. So yeah, the stablecoins could lose the bag even if they are outside of the states and withdrawals could be stuck for six months or later. So, yeah, there's a huge risk, especially for, for those holding Tether, which never really provided an audit or stuff like this, it's a risk.

Again, very interesting insights as to, to what the future of stable coins may hold. Yeah, I, I'm curious to see what's going to shake out with regulations because I think any kind of clarity around this topic is going to be huge for any kind of momentum taking crypto into the future. So obviously more regulatory clarity is needed around this and right now us is kind of navigating in this gray area. And so I think there's a lot of unknowns and risk involved where, you know, holders of these tokens, using them to exchange and that kind of stuff. You know, a lot of unknown risks. So, Marcel, appreciate you sharing your expert takes on the stable coins. If you have something else to add, go ahead.

Yeah, man. I just want to make clear that when we say that we have decentralized finance right now, that's not true. We're still really dependent on those stable coins which are mostly effectively centralized. So there's a risk for the whole system. Maybe not for bitcoin, but for Defy for sure, definitely.

And so if you have questions, go ahead and chime in on the chat. We're going to take a few minutes here to dive into those questions with Marcel, with Jordan, with myself. We want to hear the burning questions you all have about anything related crypto, the markets. What do you want to know from our experts today? Looks like we have a question from Diprock. Is it over for sheep? We were talking about this earlier. Jordan why don't you go ahead and jump in with this one?

Oh, I think there's going to be at least one more good pump for Shiv. And again we, like we mentioned at the top, it's on Coinbase. It's on a lot of big exchanges. I don't think they're talk trying to get it on Robin Hood. I think we're seeing a nice pullback in the cycle and it's going to pump again. Does it have long term, like really like holding power like a bitcoin? It operates on top of Ethereum, so it's not that transformational, but it's not dead yet.

Marcel, what's your take here?

I don't know. I don't think that the coin will disappear just because it's a token on Ethereum. It can move to another chain. For example, Tron and Eos started out as ERC20 tokens. Now they have their own blockchains and smart contracts and stuff.

Stuff.

And that's what I think is going to happen with Shiba in the future. It's not going to stay as a token forever. So I don't think it's going to disappear. It's going to change for sure.

Yeah.

And it's a lot of the reason that the gas fees have been so high on Ethereum. So it's, it's not really sustainable for it to be. I, I agree with Marcel. It should probably become its own change at some chain at some point.

We'll see what shakes out with sheep. I am not very optimistic about the future. I think it will continue to rise just due to the nature of what Jordan likes to lean in on, on the psychology of the herd. And if everyone's talking about it, you heard Jordan talk about it last week. It's like then the psychology of the herd tends to say, hey, the markets are going to move this thing. I don't think it's over for sheep, but long term use case is yet to be determined. Looks like we'll take one last question here and then we're going to wrap things up for today. Do you guys think that ETH will drop and fail with pos? We'll kick this one to Marcel first.

I think the transition to Eth 2.0 is not going to take 12 months or a year and a half. It's going to take like three to five years because we need all the smart contracts and the defi applications also to move to the new chain and you cannot force them to do it. And they also have the layer 2 solutions integrated. So if the layer 2 is working fine, so why the rush? Why risk moving to a new chain? Why changing the code if you already have $10 billion worth of TVL? So in the end, I think it's going to take longer than three years and I don't think Ethereum holders will be happy with that.

Jordan, what say you?

Yeah, I was getting a little frustrated the other day trying to operate on top of Ethereum and it was like just approving a transaction, trying to stick some LP tokens. It was just, it cost me like 400 and I was like, fed up. And I was like, oh, oh, I wish there was something I could do about this.

And you can't.

You can go to other networks, but like, again, I've mentioned it before, it's like trying to change a wheel on a car while you're driving. It's a, it's, it's, it's a tricky process. Will it happen soon? I don't know it. To me, I even tweeted this yesterday. It looks like every time they do a new upgrade, the gas gets worse, not better. Like, I don't know why it's going this upward trajectory, but it's really starting to piss me off. And like they, if it, the war, the road to mass adoption will not go through 50 or 100 Ethereum fees, I promise you that. So we'll like, they need to get that figured out because it's getting frustrating and it's holding up the whole space, like all the people that want to get involved with it. And that's why it's really giving a shining spotlight on Phantom, Solana, Avalanche, all these competitors, which is really good for them. Maybe that's what we need. I don't know.

I don't think Ethereum is going to drop and fail with, with pos. I think it would only accelerate the ecosystem. It's just the in between and the time it's going to take to get to that point. And so like Marcel was saying it. Could it be three or five more years? Yeah, potentially could be. I think in the long term. You know, when you're looking at this thing five, 10 years from now, it's going to be like, yeah, that was. There was a lot of bumps on the road, but eventually they figured it out. Now, in the meantime, our other projects like Solana, Phantom, BSC, Polygon, Layer 2 solutions, are all these other solutions going to make room and kind of capture some of the, the market? Yeah, I think so. And you're going to see them excel and continue to innovate and continue to, to grab that, that market share. So it's interesting to see ETH is not going anywhere. But in the long term I am bullish on eth. So, yeah, that's, that's going to be kind of our show for today. Do you all have closing thoughts? Go ahead and jump in here. Jordan, give us your closing thoughts for today's show.

I'm just gonna be like a broken record, man. Take profits when you, when your coins pump, folks, not everything keeps going up straight and there's going to be a pullback eventually. So make sure you take your profits and, and set yourself up for at least an easier future. That's not investment advice.

Well, I'm going to repeat what I usually say. I usually say, but it's important, leave like 70% of your holdings for the long term. If you want to play trade, use 30% but create a long term portfolio with a larger part of your holdings.

No one went broke taking profits, boys. So if you are in the market right now, make sure you are looking at things and smartly assessing where you're at, some of your targets. I will say it's going to be exciting right ahead, I think towards the end of the year. We appreciate everybody tuning in today, all of our audience from around the globe. We love having you on the show. We love having you drop your comments in the chat, the questions, everything. Crypto. We're here for the markets. We're here for you. If you haven't liked and subscribed, do so now right here. Coin Telegraph, 12pm Eastern on Thursdays. We're gonna be coming to you live every week. We appreciate everyone tuning in. And until next time, over and out. We love you all.

Sam.