The Next Big Bitcoin Wave? Jack Mallers lifts the curtain.

Bitcoin doesn't need you, you need bitcoin. That's at the individual level, the family level, corporate level, the country level. I do think that the bitcoin market is way out of whack. There's no reason this market should have worse terms than an average equity. Bitcoin is open source software. It is neutral money. That is a lot of the appeal. This capital is leaking. It's looking for a new home. Well, how about making sure that there's some bitcoin exposure in there?

Hi everyone, Gareth Jenkinson here at@bitcoin 2025. I'm joined by none other than Jack Mallis from Strike, the CEO, everyone's favourite bitcoiner. I had a great conversation with Dylan Niclair from Mataplanet earlier today and we really spoke about the why and how of bitcoin treasury companies and why it's such an innovative product. Why do you think they're so important now? And a second question to that is, do you think that it does in some way take away from the original ethos of bitcoin or is this just the natural evolution and the two aren't mutually exclusive?

First of all, huge fan of Dylan and Meta Planet, huge fan of Michael Saylor and Microstrategy. You know, I think for us we agree with their thesis, their playbook and what they've pioneered. On top of that, we think that there's a really interesting story unraveling in macroeconomics right now. There's monetary regime change. This is a bipartisan effort in the United States to really question in my opinion how valuable the world reserve currency as the dollar is to us. Some of the cons and the burdens that that implies on the country are inability to manufacture stuff. We're hollowing out the middle class. The wealth gap it's creating. There's artificial strength in the dollar, there's artificial strength in dollar assets like American exceptionalism. There's a good argument to be made that that's been funded by the trade surplus of foreign countries. And so the fact that the fixed income market, the equities market, capital is rotating and trying to find real returns, capital is rotating and trying to find a strong balance sheet. You know, companies trading at 50 times earnings, those days might be behind us soon. And so what we've seen is an overwhelming amount of institutional demand and capital markets appetite. And what we wanted to bring to the capital markets that we feel is unique is a purpose built bitcoin vehicle co founded by Tether and myself. We've been in Bitcoin for over a decade. This is not a recent pivot. This is not a new idea for us. We've had success in this industry and we wanted to bring blue chip credibility and be big enough to win that could muster the skeleton of institutional demand. A softbank can write us a billion dollar check, but startup upside and small enough to grow and technologists that can actually build and innovate in the space. And that is our mission, to try and be one of the best ways for the capital markets to participate in what we think is the 6040 portfolio might be dying. And something like 21, we hope, can play a part in future portfolios and recapitalizing the world through this monetary regime change.

There's a lot of people that are doing it now. I spoke to David Bailey two weeks ago about Nakamoto, like, super excited about it. And he was kind of talking about the future that he envisions where there's just going to be loads more companies having Bitcoin on their balance sheet. Is there enough Bitcoin to go around, like, and how do you feel about the competition? And what is the end game? I mean, are these companies going to end up actually using the Bitcoin to spend money with each other, or do they just have to hold it on the balance sheet to retain the value of the stock?

Yeah. Well, again, this is the Hodler's dilemma that we're focused on solving with lending is can you use the asset and use its liquidity profile without parting with it? I think that there will be financial innovation and utility built on top of Bitcoin, just like a home equity loan. Right, that. But to answer your question, is there enough Bitcoin for everyone? Well, no. Right. That's the point is that for everything else in life, with more demand, there's more supply. With Bitcoin, you can't make any more. So then more supply comes from within the market. It comes from get a higher price. Oh, you want more bitcoin? Well, you got to go get it. At $200,000 per Bitcoin, there's none left at $110,000 per Bitcoin. And so that's what's fascinating. And for 21, again, we're already, upon approval, we intend to be the third largest Bitcoin treasury in the world. We already own, or intend to, at closing, over 42,000 coins. And so this is part of that. Big enough to win, small enough to grow. We feel like we can carry an institutional appetite because of myself, tether, softbank, the size of our balance sheet, the size of our partners, access to the capital markets. And then where we feel like we're different is again, we're technologists that have built very successful products in bitcoin. We've said in our public files filing we're very interested in the lending market, in the credit market. We think that if we own 1, 2, 3, 4, 5% of the Bitcoin network and have access to the capital markets, there's a lot of utility that we can build in the form of software that's going to change the world on top of just the balance sheet. And we feel uniquely capable within the treasury company sea of large swaths of capital, big balance sheet, big partners and proven technologists that have executed at a tremendously high level.

I've got a lot of good bitcoiner friends. One of them is Joe Nakamoto, Joe hall on X. And one of the things I love the most about him is he calls people out for moving away from the bitcoin ethos or just focusing too much on number go up or bitcoin as a store of value. It's still a monetary protocol. What's the end game for these bitcoin treasury reserve companies and does it take away from people using bitcoin as money?

First of all, with 21, I hear a lot of, you know, Wall Street's arrived on Bitcoin. BlackRock and Ibit and Larry Fink are here. They're the chief marketing officers now. And with 21, I think what Paolo and I really pride ourselves on is we're bringing bitcoin to Wall Street. I'll never forget my first meeting on Wall Street. I showed up in a hoodie in Birkenstocks because we're not changing for Wall Street. We're bringing what we think is valuable about this asset class to the capital markets. Now, some people might not find that valuable. We think it's a very appet. So first of all, that's our philosophical agenda. That's who we are culturally. Beyond that, Bitcoin is open source software. It is neutral money. That is a lot of the appeal. And so it is there for anyone to buy it. I find it hypocritical for a bitcoiner to say, I don't like that Larry Fink can buy it. Kick him out like, well, who elected you Mr. Mayor of Bitcoin? That's not how it works on purpose. And so bitcoins for all, listen, $900 trillion roundabout is the worth of stuff that humans own. Equities Currencies, sovereign debt, real estate, art, metals, collectibles, 900 trillion, about half of that we've monetized. So you own the art, not to put it on your wall and consume so that your toddler can throw spaghetti on it and ruin your fancy Van Gogh piece. But you're owning it because you're trying to store value. You own the real estate not because you're living in it, because you're trying to store value. You own the index of portfolio stocks, not because you believe in leadership, you understand the products, you believe in earnings, per share growth, but because you're trying to store value. So that's about 400 to $500 trillion of savings that humanity. There's a problem there. This capital is leaking. It's looking for a new home. And so the way we view ourselves is offering a transition into what we believe is the answer, which is Bitcoin and giving fixed income, giving the equities, markets worth $150 trillion by the way, in Apple and Amazon, these Companies are worth 1, 2, 3, 4 trillion, $150 trillion globally. There's a big appetite for a new home through this regime change. And so I think we're solving a noble problem for lots of people. I mean, what do you say to the no coiner that has all their savings in a 401k? Well, how about making sure that there's some bitcoin exposure in there? Is that a good noble deed to do? I think so. And who are you to say that they're not allowed to? So anyway, that's my opinion on that. I think Wall street has access to Bitcoin just like the guy I met at the meetups 13 years ago.

Yep, fair enough. I mean the only difference is you either have the bitcoin and have control of the keys or you have exposure to the Bitcoin and then not quite the same thing. How do you view that?

Listen, Bitcoin enables you to self sovereignly use it in a way that trusts nobody. If you want that. I fundamentally believe that in order for society to restore any sense of harmony, it rests on the idea of personal responsibility. You are not overweight or poor or sad or depressed because of who's in office or because who's your mayor. You have to own the outcomes of your life. I fundamentally believe that Bitcoin empowers you to do that. If you want to use it in a way that just relies on you, you can. But I don't think bitcoin disrupts corporations. I think society will be Filled with businesses that sell you a service that you value and you're willing to pay for. And so it's a truly free market. You don't have to buy my stock or use my products if you don't want to, but if you find them valuable, you're more than welcome to. And that's the society that I want to live in, is a restoration of personal responsibility. And so for me, bitcoin restores that in a very meaningful way. And if you aren't interested in what I'm selling, I'll be the first to say, don't use it. We try and be that company that's different than some of the bigger corporations that are really focused on serving Bitcoiners for 21. I've said publicly we intend to provide proven reserves. We are bitcoiners. Paolo and I have held lots of bitcoin ourselves over the years. Again, we want to do bitcoin the right way in our financial services, in our businesses, in our public filings, in the capital markets. We think that there's an opportunity to meet the market with the correct trade offs and offer something appealing that some people won't like, but we think a lot of people will.

You've been in bitcoin a long time now. We've seen the evolution of this conference the last two years. Open arms to politicians. There's pros and cons for this. I spoke to David Bailey about it and he was kind of. He was very adamant that being a bitcoin advocate means that you need to open it up to the rest of the world. And the truth is it's a free protocol. You don't get to choose who uses bitcoin. And I was openly critical last year when Trump was on stage and I'm like, guys, he's pandering to an audience that all love bitcoin and all use bitcoin. And it's a means to an end for him. But at the same time, this administration has done a lot for bitcoin advocacy and helping the industry flourish, which I think is fantastic. But having been around for as long as you have, what do you think of the politicization of bitcoin in general?

Well, I think it's a misunderstood narrative to think that bitcoin is for the right or the red or Republicans. Bitcoin. If I own bitcoin, because I thought Trump was going to tweet something, I'd be poor. I mean, right, like bitcoin is apolitical in that sense. It's been successful no matter who's been in office, no matter what anyone said about it. So to be clear, that's obviously not true. But what I think is the really, like, overwhelming, powerful movement is that bitcoin doesn't need you, you need bitcoin. That's at the individual level, the family level, corporate level, the country level. It's the same message I gave El Salvador was, listen, guys, you're not going to be the main character of this thing. And that's the point. Imagine how big something can become if it's a part of all of us and not you, and kill your ego and just be a part of it, contribute nobly to it. And that is the journey every bitcoiner goes through. And so I think Donald Trump was interested in bitcoin. Not because bitcoin needed Donald Trump, because Donald Trump needed bitcoin. He needed to win an election. Right? He needs to find neutral reserve assets that he can start to accumulate in the face of a weakening dollar. As he reorders, capital flows globally. And so I see it as the natural journey that we all go through, which is, I'm smarter than this thing. I mean, how many people have you met that, oh, yeah, bitcoin. No, I already figured it out. It's going to zero, right? And then you realize, I'm not smarter than it, I'm not bigger than it. I'm one with it. I just need to be a part of it. And I've watched my childhood friends go through that. I've gone through that, and now I'm watching the United States of America go through that. And I think it's a beautiful journey that will be misunderstood until it's over.

How do you feel about critics kind of saying, like, we need to be careful about bitcoin lending and offering products and services that are kind of subject to the potential pitfalls of traditional finance? I mean, is that something you've thought a lot about? And how much does that tie into the general ethos of bitcoin?

Well, for us, actually, bitcoin is the most pristine form of collateral we could ever allow a loan against. We view ourselves as not having any risk. As a company, the loans LTV is 50%, meaning for those at home, we let you take half of your bitcoin's worth out in cash. So for us, it's over. Collateralized loan. There's no rehypothecation, it doesn't move, it's not reinvested. And we're looking forward to just showing you where it is, just sitting on the blockchain. And so for us, there's no risk there. Now, there's obviously risk for the customer. Right? You are taking out a loan. You owe us money, and that's leverage in your life. And we think of debt like fire. It can heat a home. It could change a village. If you use too much of it, it'll burn your house down. And so you got to be careful. And so I believe in free markets. I really don't think that a new asset class that is the most pristine form of collateral, the best performing thing you can own, that we all have access to, that we shouldn't be robbed of the ability. I mean, this is how the VOC built the biggest trade empire. They borrowed against their ships and their land. This is how US Railroads were built. They issued collateralized bonds. This is how Manhattan was built. No one bought Manhattan land and real estate and then sold it. When they had a medical emergency, or when their kid wanted to go to college, or when they wanted to put a down payment on a house, or when they wanted to build a new business, a bar, on their land, they borrowed against it. Tesla just put a restriction on how much Elon can borrow against his stock because he doesn't want to own dollars. He wants the most scarce, desirable good. So this market shouldn't be robbed of that opportunity just because some people will misuse the product. So we've gone to great lengths, even doing interviews like this and telling customers, be careful. There are risks. We have to issue, things like margin calls to be responsible in offering this product. But where our focus is, is enabling those that are responsible and where this can change their life. And I think that's the free market attitude that I'm willing to go to bed with at night and feel good.

When it comes to finding partners to give you the capital or the liquidity to serve these loans. How difficult is it to find the right people and also do it in a responsible way? And just as a. As an explainer to that, I've spoken to people like Zapo bank that actually invest in US Treasury T bills like Tether does. And that's a really smart way to offer your clients yield if they're depositing Bitcoin and doing that. I mean, obviously Strike's not doing that, but, you know, with a lending product, you still need a partner to give you the collab, the collateral to make that happen. How have you gone about doing that?

Yeah. So, Strike, we do not lend off our balance sheet typically. So what we do is we connect pools of dollars to bitcoiners and we facilitate the distribution of the product. It's been challenging, I think, but that goes to show the opportunity. And where we are in bitcoin's journey is that big pools of capital either don't understand bitcoin, don't understand that it's pristine collateral. I mean, for example, how can I sell in a market turmoil event the fourth bedroom of a house on a Sunday night? I can't. But I can do the equivalent for bitcoin and educating large pools of capital that this is pristine collateral. It is the least risky way to source a collateralized over collateralized loan. On top of that, those that do understand bitcoin well, they'd rather just own bitcoin than lend out dollars. Bitcoin's compounding at an average of 60% right now. And bitcoiners want these loans for single digit interest rates. And so the challenge has been going about, but that's what we do at strike, that's my job, is to provide you convenient financial services to make sure that bitcoin is useful in your life. That's what we sell. And so that's what we've gone out and done in the last six months of my life in regards to this product is going out and doing that. So not going to blow my announcement on Thursday, but you know, we're excited to be able to offer single digit interest rate loans. You know, we can lend out a billion dollars at a time to a customer. So we have large pools of capital, very cheap. Because again, I do think that the bitcoin market is way out of whack. There's no reason this market should have worse terms than an average equity. There's no reason for that. And it's just someone has to go out and do the proof of work and start to compress these ideas and these terms and find the capital. And so we're excited. And as successful as the product's been so far, I think it's just the beginning.

Jack, thank you so much for your time. We could talk forever. Appreciate it. You're one of my favorite bitcoiners. And strength to you, man. Cheers. Thank you.