Innovative Ideas with Kiana Guyon & Joshua Lucas Oates of Tooth.Eco

Hello and welcome to this episode of Conscious Design. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, an author of the book Conscious Design, and I'm excited to have today with me the co-founders of EcoTooth, Joshua and Kiana, talk about their company and journey on building an eco-friendly product. So welcome to the show. Great to have you.

Hi, thank you for having us.

Yeah, so I always like to start with, you know, the origin story. We all like those, as Marvel has proven. So let's start with, with that. Like, where, where did you guys decide, you know, eco-friendly products is a huge thing to tackle, so you guys decided start with toothbrush. So can you talk a little bit about what What went into making the decision that that's the product you wanted to do and why eco-friendly is important for you guys?

Joshua, do you wanna do this one or?

Yeah, please go ahead. I think you're just as much ready to do this. Just go for it.

All right. I think it's mainly, well, the brainchild, it's Joshua's brainchild essentially. He had an epiphany one night where he hasn't changed his toothbrush In a while, I think that's the story. And he essentially threw it away, you know, and it's completely frayed. You're just busy with life and you haven't changed your toothbrush, and he just threw it away. And essentially, light bulb moment, and he just thought, "Why do I have to throw away the whole thing?" And it and it started from from there. Obviously, this concept already existed within the electric toothbrush space, but none of it we didn't find it in the. Manual toothbrush, manual toothbrush space. So it started from there, and, you know, more and more questions, doing more research on the market. And obviously there was the rise at the time, there was the rise of, you know, plastic pollution and being conscious about using plastic, single-use plastics and things like that. And, you know, 3.5 billion toothbrushes get thrown away each year, which is A really serious number. Yeah. And most of those—

I didn't realize that.

Yeah, it's pretty crazy, isn't it? So most of them end up either in landfill or floating somewhere in the ocean because it is a multi-plastic. There's more than one type of plastics on a toothbrush. A lot of recycling facilities can't really separate those, so they just chuck it into landfill. So we wanted to tackle this issue, this issue and this design, this toothbrush design of having a handle for life with a changeable head just simply really made sense. And our handle is made from recycled aluminium, so it's durable. It feels really nice to hold. It's ergonomic as well. And the head of the brush is replaceable. So we made the head of the brush as small as we possibly could get it to and as sustainable as we could get it to as well. as well. And, uh, yeah, we do it on all 4 colors. And, um, I think it's— we've been, we've been, we've been called the Apple of iPhone, uh, the Apple of toothbrushes, sorry, a few times, uh, due to our brilliant design. Uh, and that's all, uh, Joshua's, um, came out of Joshua's brain really, because he's the product designer in between the two of us, um, and I do the branding.

Awesome. Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure using recycled aluminum helps, helps with the Apple relations since they do that with their laptop bodies, right?

Oh, absolutely. Don't fix what's not broke, right? Yeah, I mean, you know, we just try to make a beautiful product that everyone wanted to have, didn't shun away from it when they had a house party or something. They would have their toothbrush proud on their bathroom shelf rather than hiding it away when those sorority parties were happening. So Yeah, I think we've made a beautiful product that everyone wants to keep, made out of, you know, materials that are, you know, durable when they— where they need to be and as eco-friendly as well where they need to be. So we've made a pretty interesting product, we believe.

Yeah, it's awesome. It's, well, it's a crazy number considering the number of people like Joshua and I that don't throw away our toothbrushes when we should. That there's still over 3 billion thrown away every year. That's, that's kind of a surprising number. So apparently somebody's throwing away more in a year than I am. A lot more.

So it's making the dentist really happy.

Yeah, somebody, somebody is getting a new toothbrush like they're supposed to, so it actually cleans. So that's a, that's a huge number. I had no idea. That it was such a, yeah, such a large percentage. Like, that's a huge, that's a huge number. We're talking billions, right? And to your point, like, that material is not recycled. It's very hard to recycle multi-plastic types together. So it's, it's great that you guys have thought about that. And I'm curious, um, as far as the head, right, you, you approached designing the, the replaceable part Kyle, what did, what did you guys find as being the best? How did you balance, right, that, okay, it needs to be disposable, it has to be thrown away, but we are trying to create as eco-friendly a product as possible. Could you kind of walk through what, what you went through and how you arrived at, at the materials? And, and obviously you made it as small as possible. Like, there's lots of things you can do, but I'm just kind of curious if there's anything you're like, oh, I wish we could have done this. But we had to make a decision, you know, for some manufacturing costs, something like that, that you're— how did you arrive there?

Sure. So I guess, yeah, so I guess there's a few aspects, right? We wanted to have the head of the product as eco-friendly as possible, but we also did a hell of a lot of research on cross-country development regarding the accessibility of materials. So we, we chose a material through one being as eco-friendly as we could and how that's derived, where it's from. Is it derived from corn, which is accessible from anywhere? Is it derived from starch? Again, accessible from anywhere. But then, you know, starch— some people are allergic to starch. So And then the recyclability aspects, like, is it realistically, if it is biodegradable, are the consumers actually gonna do the correct process with it? If they're not, what's the other alternative? And will recycling plants accept that particular material base? If not, where will it go? If they do, is it gonna get there? So there was a whole host of realizations that essentially the main question we ask is how lazy is the consumer? And it's not putting, making, you know, putting a title on everyone saying everyone's lazy, but it was kind of like—

We don't throw away our toothbrushes, so I don't have to put myself in that category.

We had to be realistic, like, people are gonna do this. So So eventually we found, we landed on PLA, polylactic acid, and it was derived from corn.

Right.

And corn is very widely renowned and there's a lot of byproducts from that. So PLA was the best source that we found. The heads, as you mentioned, the size, we try to make it as small as possible. So the bit that we do throw away, despite being biodegradable, we're trying not to waste as much material. And then there was a lot of impact testing. Getting to a biodegradable product that can be tufted where the bristles go in is actually quite— we found really difficult.

Mm-hmm.

We actually had a lot of issues trying to find and make a formulation with our material partners back in the UK that could accept a bristle. And when I say accept a bristle, the force of the machine used to implement these, these, these tufts and how they're anchored is extremely rugged and not forgiving at all. It wasn't like gently pushing them in, it was like slamming them into this material.

Right, it's more like a jackhammer.

Really, yeah, totally like a jackhammer. So we had to, we had to find a way to add enough elastomers that kept the formulation eco-friendly without disturbing that compostability of the product, but didn't make it too weak, so it would still accept its locking mechanism. To be honest, it was a massive nightmare, and we're still learning the process. You know, we've got a version 2 coming out next year in 2023 that is much more improved formulation-wise. So Yeah, it took a lot longer time. We didn't want to bring out something that would cause us issues. A lot of issues on the way. We had to bring it out as quick as we could, but essentially we fell on PLA derived from corn, and that seemed to be the best option at the time. And we're going to continue using that because with formula adjustments, and we're going to make a better product each time.

Yeah, that's a challenge. Go ahead.

Yeah, and I think adding to that as well, it's, you know, what Josh mentioned is definitely a balance between everything. So the, you know, the— we, I mean, we've— it was a massive, massive, massive learning curve when it came to creating the head itself. The handle was very smooth. You know, it's the handle, I think, you know, it's ergonomic. It's— that was very easy. easy to, um, to test. But, um, I think what was happening, um, as well was, you know, what we learned as well was, you know, our bristles, bristle quality as well. Um, we needed to get to have that up to standard. Um, and oddly enough as well, the standards are very flexible, um, in the dental space. Um, but we obviously went— once we, uh, found that out, we we wanted to make sure that our toothbrush was above that sort of basic standard.

Right.

So we made sure that we contacted the British Dental Association and, you know, worked alongside them to make sure that our bristles, the bristles that we have made, are good quality, you know, Joshua will attest to that, you know, the flexibility, the pull test, you know, how they're being cut, the layout, you know, there's a lot of things that go into this tiny, tiny little head. And, you know, but that's been, weirdly enough, it's been the thing that has given us the most headache, the smallest thing that we make. So, but we, you know, as Joshua mentioned, it's a forever— I think we're, as a sustainable company, we're always forever innovating and not forever, always, you know, always trying to make and improve our product as we go along and listening to our customers. And yeah, it's pretty, it's pretty, it's pretty interesting.

Yeah, well, I would imagine.

Yeah.

Yes, yes, it is. Well, I'd imagine too, with you making it modular, basically, it's a little bit easier for you to roll out new head designs too. And given that that's the hardest part, you can keep the handle, just leave it there. It works. It's great. And then just iterate, iterate on the head and not have to go through the whole process again if you were to have them together. So maybe that's helping. Maybe, maybe it's Maybe it's a pain too, but hopefully it's helping.

Originally, that was totally the plan. However, we've even improved the locking mechanism. So the V2 design is a new head, a new— it looks exactly the same externally, the silhouette. However, the way we've actually pushed— joined the two is reducing heads getting stuck. It's reducing any element of water staying in the head. So, you know, and the thing is, you can't really foresee this until you have tens of thousands of customers using this. You know, you can—

Then you get the feedback.

Yeah, until you have feedback and everyone's like, okay, this is great. Um, there's so many elements that we, I, I guess, overthought. You know, we— the handle design without the head doesn't look like a shiv. You know, it's a beautiful design. There's no locking mechanism that you can see externally. So it doesn't look like a prison shiv, you know, it's great. It still could probably still be used for one. But we realized actually, does it matter if it looks like a shiv? Probably not. We could have done a whole new design without overthinking a few elements. We could remove the entire ball section inside that adds cost and time.

Mm-hmm.

So actually our V2 is even way more simplified. Um, it's not going to fall out in the mouth. That was a big thing for us. Are we going to have consumers brushing their teeth and the head's going to fall out? We're gonna have people choking on it? Are we gonna— you know, that's a massive freak out for any industrial designer, any design team. So as much as I would love to say the handle design's forever, it is not. And we have a new and improved V2 and V2 head coming out next year that will eliminate some of the issues that we're currently having, if not all of the issues. And yeah, from there, yeah, we're hoping to keep that handle design forever.

But you know, it's only from—

Well, don't, don't not innovate. Never. Don't freeze. You know, you should never do that. So it's always— if you have a V3 at some point, don't worry about it. It's, it's okay.

We'll get there.

I mean, yeah, as a sustainable company, again, um, we know that obviously, you know, people who have V1 Might move to V2. And this is something that was a big discussion with the team where it's, well, what, what should we do? You know, should we offer a return, you know, a free return? And we, we take responsibility for recycling because obviously it's aluminum, it's forever recyclable. So we can easily—

Great.

Just send it over back to our manufacturers, melt it back down, and those aluminum handles will then become V2. So this is, this is a very interesting, you know, circular, circular economy here where it's like, you know, we were encouraging people to go, okay, fine, you want your V2, then, you know, this is, this used to be the V1, but it's been, it's been changed and it's forever remolded. And I think this is, it's an interesting concept to have as well as a sustainable company.

I think, I think that actually would play into your whole, uh, Apple comparison, right? They have a buyback. They want— they actually want your phone back because they're gonna strip it. They're gonna either refurbish it, right, or more than likely they're gonna strip it down because you have an iPhone 7. They don't— they're not gonna refurbish it anymore, but they are gonna— that aluminum is recyclable, and there's so many, so many components to that. So I think it's great that you guys are thinking about that, especially as a long-term customer, right? Because I think that builds even more trust in that, yeah, you are actually an eco product company instead of just, well, here's V2, buy it, have fun.

Yeah, right, exactly.

There's no good luck recycling it, we hope you figure it out on your own. And exactly, you're really thinking about, well, it's aluminum and aluminum, so why don't we just take it back? And how do we, how do we make that more circular, and I think more and more brands are slowly figuring that out. So it's, it's always great when I meet companies that are actually thinking about that at the beginning, as they're— before they've even launched the second version. So kudos to you guys in thinking through that, that process. Is there— you mentioned the head, so is the head fully biodegradable, like throw it in the dirt? Decompose, kind of what, what level? Sure.

So currently the head body is compostable, industrially compostable. I just want to get that clear. The bristles are recyclable currently, so it's a nylon 612. So if you have a composting— if you have a facility that takes bristles, amazing. You will have to separate the 2 currently. Currently. We have since then realized consumers realistically, they're not going to do that. We want to make a product as consumer-friendly as we could. So we set about collaborating with a company based in Netherlands that we can make our own durable biodegradable bristle. So there are existing bristles on the market made cornstarch and other, other materials, but we found they're not durable. So instead of lasting— ask, um, sorry, lasting for the recommended 1, 2, or 3 months, it would last a lot shorter, like a couple of weeks kind of thing, from our testing. Oh wow. So we said, as much as eco-friendly, that you're still buying lots more, which means there's energy used in manufacturing the products. It's actually not as eco-friendly, right? Companies selling it, there's a massive Yeah, right. So we set about— we knew that was a massive barrier to entry for us, so we set about collaborating with a company developing our own durable biodegradable bristles, which we are nearly complete with, and they'll be on the market next year within all of our existing product range. And we're looking to use that as another revenue stream to sell it to companies like Colgate and Oral-B to integrate those durable biodegradable bristles into their existing product lines. So—

Amazing.

On the completion of that, the head will be 100% compostable and biodegradable next year. So you don't have to separate, you don't have to do anything. You just put the bristles and the head into an industrial composting facility and you're good to go. The bristles will be home compostable. The head, because of the mass and the thickness around it, will still need to go to be industrially compostable. But again, we're still working to find a honeycomb design so it's almost hollow inside, so it will compost at home quicker. But again, you know, V3, V4, we're slowly working to make sure that the product's better. But all this stuff takes a lot of time. You know, this is all new to the world, to be honest. Everyone thinks you can just switch over to these novel materials, and it's just, it's just not the case. You know, it's— We spend hundreds of thousands developing materials with existing world-leading manufacturers in this, and it's still not easy. The moment you add a color to anything, it changes the compostability element, it changes the elastomers in it, so it makes it more brittle or it makes it less brittle. I mean, it's an absolute nightmare to make a material, but we're sticking through it.

Yeah, material science is a whole I mean, it's, that's a whole thing. So it's, and it's something I like you're pointing that out, right? It's all, it is doable. And I think that's where some people are still hung up on, well, it's, it's not doable, but it is. You're just gonna end up investing hundreds of thousands of dollars and years of R&D and then you'll get it. And so it's great that you guys are, are doing that. I, I'm impressed that there's a biodegradable bristle cuz they're so small.

Yeah.

They're so thin as a material. Um, you mentioned too, the, the compostability is that the thickness, like the bristle is thin enough to easily decompose. And, and that, that's the only, I guess the thickness is the only thing that's stopping the, the rest of the head then is just too thick to quickly decompose. Is that, I don't know, that's—

Yeah.

That sounds like what you're saying, right?

Exactly. So, so the bristles being so finitely thin, we can get them to home compostability instantly, very easy. But also there's a fine line between making a product that decomposes while you're using it and making a product that works well and then decomposes. So again, it's, you know, and also a product being in the bathroom with potentially in a hot shower environment after people shower like twice a day or once.

Humidity. And you have lots of things going on.

Never again. And then the head thickness as well, as you mentioned. Yeah. So the mass, the amount of material used to create the head itself, can we get that thinner and can we make a potentially honeycomb structure or injection mold it in a way that's hollow inside but has a honeycomb structure to keep its strength and, you know, rigidity to then decompose to become home compostable. Because let's be honest, industrial composting facilities in first world countries is very much apparent. But being a product that everyone uses twice a day, we want everyone in any state of the country being able to Dispose of that product and the product that is disposable to completely disappear within 180 days, which classifies it as home compostable. So there's so many elements to this. If we knew this from the beginning, definitely wouldn't have done it. No, I lie. We would have continued. It just made it more exciting and more challenging. So that's why we're continuing to innovate with amazing companies across the globe.

I feel like there's a lot of innovation that happens that way. You just don't know enough and you're like, yeah, let's do it. And then 3 years later you're like, never would've chosen this, but we're close to the end now, so we might as well just keep going. It's returning back now is bad.

Yeah, 100%. You just gotta keep smiling and then, oh my goodness, how much?

All right, I'll write that check. Um, well, let's bounce over to the business brand side of things. And we, we touched on this earlier a little bit, like getting Your feedback, but I'd love for you guys to talk a little bit about how you were able to launch and then what, what kind of feedback, how you've integrated that into developing your V2, how much, you know, obviously is there's a mix of you going as a designer, okay, this is bad, I need to fix it. And then also customers going, I don't like this. So kind of, if you could just talk a little bit about that, I'd love to hear kind of the that business consumer side of things?

Yeah, absolutely. I think that we— I think let's just rewind it back to how we really, really start, how we really launched Tooth. We're crowdfunded first and foremost. So I think this says a lot about who we are as a brand. We are very close to our customers, as simple as that. And I think Building customer relationships is very valuable for us, especially as a company that's constantly innovating. And being, you know, a lot of Kickstarters understand as well feedback, that feedback is truly, truly important.

The whole platform is feedback.

Exactly. So, you know, I think the first few months of sending out our products to our Kickstarter backers after 2 and a half, almost 2, yeah, 2 and a half years of delay, almost over 18 months of delay was amazing. But I spent a few months after that being on our customer service actually. I made it my own thing where I, would speak, you know, with the customers directly, see what issues they're having maybe with the products, what they're struggling with. Or some people did come back and say, well, don't like it. And, you know, it's fair enough. We don't hate. It's okay. You know, they just didn't like it. And it's, you know, it's something that goes in your mouth. I think it's— and so it's something that's very personal. So we totally get it. It's not for everyone. But those who really, really love it, we try to understand why they're loving it and where can we also improve and how, you know, we're always open to ideas that customers give us, which is really interesting. We have, you know, a handful of customers who will every month who will cut, you know, email us and say, oh, did you think of this? Will you be launching this? We'd love to see this in your line. It would be amazing if you made this eco, and etc., etc., etc. So we, because we are a crowdfunded company, our customer base and our community is way more involved in the making of our products. And I think for us it's really important because you're using this product at least I hope twice, at least once a day. So, you know, every day. So that's for us, the people is very important in, in our brand.

Hey, it's Ian here. So glad you're enjoying this episode of Conscious Design. If you want the full scoop on conscious design, what it is, how we do it, how you can do it, then check out our book. We wrote it so creative entrepreneurs like you can code social and environmental responsibility right into your brand's DNA. You can download the first chapter for free. Link is in the description. Enjoy the rest of the episode. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share. Yeah, I think, I think it's a good point, especially, you know, it's something that you use, should be using once to twice, couple times a day, right? Um, at least, right? It, it is such a personal, personal item, right? It's something you're gonna, for an item, spend a lot of time with. Right. So it's, it is something where you have, you'll have that feedback, right? You'll have an experience, more of an experience with it.

Yeah.

Than a lot of other items. So it's great to have that, have that connection. When you, when you were going through and you decided, right, that we wanted to launch a crowdfunding campaign, is, did you look at any other methods? Were there any other ideas that came to mind? They're like, well, maybe, or was it just kind of out of the gate, now crowdfunding makes the most sense because it's gonna, it's gonna give us these benefits?

So I think, um, to start, it was, we were coming out with something that was never really seen before. So we wanted to see how people would respond first and foremost. And, you know, Kickstarter— well, we launched on Kickstarter. Also secretly, it was Joshua's dream to launch on Kickstarter, so we wanted to launch on Kickstarter as well.

Totally. As a designer, having a product on Kickstarter was just like a dream. Let's do it. Let's have a successful product on Kickstarter.

I do feel like that is a designer thing. Like, you somehow, if you have a successful Kickstarter, you're like, yeah, I won. Like, this is— I somehow checked a box and I get that gold star because I did that. So yeah, I definitely design background. I feel that. That's very true.

The brand and launching on Kickstarter was important for us because essentially You know, we wanted to— we needed the proof of concept because we were launching something that was relatively unique and we needed to get feedback from potential users.

Right.

That was our goal. And of course, this helped with further funding from private and angel investors later down the line. So yeah, that's That was the main goal for, for our Kickstarter. Obviously, Josh, Josh's dream, let's not forget, um, as a designer, I think it was— he was very proud to have seen, you know, 200% funded on, on a toothbrush.

Um, yeah, that's awesome.

Yeah, I, I still pretty— I'm still pretty sure that we're still the most funded manual toothbrush on Kickstarter.

That's awesome.

I might be incorrect, but I also might be correct. But I think we still— I think we're still holding that title. So yeah.

Well, awesome. Even if you held it only for a year, that's still a pretty great title. So, you know, you achieved it.

At the time we did it for— we did it for 4 years. So yeah, we did pretty good. There's another brand out there which is more camping, totally focused on travel camping. Um, that's currently doing really well. But yeah, at the time, up into 4 years, yeah, we were the most funded manual toothbrush on Kickstarter on the planet, which was a pretty cool thing to say, to be honest.

Yeah, and I'd love to kind of jump back a little bit because a lot of people think about Kickstarter as the end-all be-all, like, oh, now we've launched. But you mentioned that you guys were also looking at it as a tool to get other funding, right? You, you saw not just, oh well, we're funded now, we're gonna, you know, keep going. Because I've talked to companies that they, they just use Kickstarter to launch products and they just, just use it as a launch platform. They don't go get other money, they don't do anything like that. So could you talk a little bit about kind of your strategy there and what— how you were lining up this as part of your more long-term business growth than just, hey, we launched a product, cool, it was pre— kind of just pre-selling and then we stopped. Like, how, how was that and how have you been able to kind of grow by using that, that strategy?

Totally. Um, yeah, Kickstarter was proof of concept, as Kiana said. It was a way to dictate and understand market interest. So you have the option to get started, you launch to one market, do you want to launch globally? We went, we opted for globally because we really wanted to see what markets, what countries, what nations were interested in purchasing our product. That gave us a lot of data. And today, if you're not a data-focused business, no matter if you're a physical product, you're a tech company, no matter what you do, you will fail. You need to look—

So true.

Yeah, every single aspect of your customer, when they're buying, what time they're buying, what their interests are when they're not buying. So we use Kickstarter. That was the tip of the enormous iceberg which developed from there. So Kickstarter proof of concept, great. From there, we then used that and built that data into our company decks. to then raise further funding from private investors, angel investors, high net worth individuals. And this was proof of concept that, yeah, we could add these data points to say, listen, we've made this crazy product that people wanna buy. Clearly, here's the data points from these markets and we did X amount in 24 hours. We believe if you give us X amount at this valuation, we can then rate, we can then grow the business to point X within, you know, 18 months or 24 months.

Right.

So yeah, Kickstarter was a very— we then built company decks, as I said, with all the data points around our Kickstarter, what nations and what industry, what countries were buying. And America turned out to be Um, very interested in teeth products. You know, they're very good again with the subscription model product. American, yeah, they've been around. Subscription models have been in America for considerably longer than the UK. And oh, interesting. Yeah, having pearly white products, you know, like everyone over there has beautiful smiles. England are renowned for bad teeth, which is hilarious. So Why we launched from there, I don't know. But the video we did made was actually a little bit more American focused, which we wanted. We kind of knew, we knew this about pearly whites. We knew this about particular products. We didn't really know it about subscription focused products. So yeah.

I didn't realize that either with subscription model. It was such, didn't realize it was such an American thing, but I guess so. So yeah, that's it. That's an interesting thing to think about. 'Cause I would've never guessed that that's so different.

Yeah.

It makes sense now that you said it out loud. I'm like, oh, of course, of course different countries would have different levels of being comfortable with subscription. But that's a, a huge, huge point, especially if you are looking at the subscription type product. You wanna look at who's comfortable with a subscription product, right? Who even, who's, who's like, yeah, let's, Let's do that, as opposed to, yeah, maybe, maybe not as much.

Totally. Subscriptions that turn on or turn off. And then we had the misfortune or fortune of launching just before COVID I'd kind of say, I wouldn't use misfortune, a stroke of interesting luck, I guess you'd say. If we had product ready and available before lockdown and COVID really happened, we would be in the stratosphere regarding sales and valuation right now because the only thing that you could buy was online. You know, physical retail establishments globally legally had to shut down.

Right.

So we would, you know, we'd be in a whole different ballgame right now. However, this did allow us to iron out a lot of issues over the 18-month delay that we did have with our manufacturers because they were prioritizing the manufacturing of PPE equipment over that time. We were able to iron out some issues that we were previously being rushed to launch the product.

So, okay.

Everything happens for a reason, I believe. Um, you know, the best attitude. Totally. Um, we got a great product to market. It did take us 18 months longer. We were transparent with our customers from the beginning, uh, you know, every step of the way, saying this is an issue, this is an issue. You know, a lot of eye rolling from people who didn't quite understand, but you know, that's, that's okay. It's to make a— to bring a brand new product to market, to mine a product out the ground that's non-existing that you put a label on it. It's a lot of work.

It's a hell of a lot of work, um, especially when your supply chain is completely destroyed.

There was none. I mean, they're like, why are you not making this? There is no supply chain. It's gone. It's disappeared. There's nothing. Um, so yeah, it was a nightmare. A lot of stress. 1,500 people just Waiting. As much as waiting, but they were all really good. They were all amazing. But it was the stress on our shoulders. You know, we really wanted to bring this product to market. We didn't want to seem like charlatans or anything. You know, we're going to bring this product to market. We are going to bring it to you, but we physically, we can't do anything, guys. You know, we're stuck right now. We did it and we're here and we're pushing forward.

But yeah, I think the reason adding to that, I wanted to come back to what Joshua mentioned is transparency. We were very transparent. I think this is a lot of, we do get questions where it's, well, how, why did all of these people stick with you for the, you know, for 18 months? It's crazy, you know, and Right. And this is because we every, almost every single month, we would send out an update to all of our customers saying, yeah, we're still here, we're still pushing, but there's nothing we can do because, you know, supply chain issues and things like that. And, you know, again, I think bringing this back to the brand, transparency is something that we value tremendously. at Tooth. And it's because we are a sustainable company and we're not about that greenwashing and, you know, all of that. We're truly, we're truly almost sustainable. And we are proud to be because, and because we know as well, like, while we're innovating and we're not just sitting on our laurels, like, yeah, we've made a cool, interesting, almost 100% sustainable product, but we're on a mission to make it even better. And we've always proudly said that. And even I think when I do physically, I go out and do pop-ups and markets and things like that. I do enjoy it. Yeah, I do enjoy this because I want to see how people organically react to our toothbrushes. And it's quite interesting and understand their thought process when they see this, you know, instantly when they see this product, the questions they ask and, and all that. And, you know, a lot of the times it's, you know, what I say is we're imperfectly sustainable. And they really, you can see, and you, you know, you can see the, the sort of, wow, she's really honest. She's being, you know, and they buy into this. It's because we, you know, they, a lot of our consumers Specifically, especially over COVID, I think a lot of mindsets of a lot of shoppers have changed.

Oh yeah.

Because they've become way more aware of where their products come from, how it's being made, if it's ethical or not, you know, what materials are being used, etc., etc., etc. You know, the impacts of an end of life, of the end of life cycle of a product, etc., you know, and it's, it's, it's really interesting. And this is also a strong point of ours, transparency. It's something that we value a lot.

Yeah, I think it's like we, we used to the last, so the last 2 years, or almost a full 2, 3 years almost. Anyway, it's been a while. So it's, it's one of the biggest shifts in consumer behavior I think we've ever had, uh, that I can think of. There's no other event that has changed how people think about it. And one of the biggest things that— and you're doing it— is this transparency part and bringing people along the journey, which I think is, is a huge benefit of crowdfunding. You said you're starting You're able to create a foundation of it, of being connected with your customers, understanding them, listening to them. And it's, it's something we all just want to be heard. So it's having that from a company is, is huge. And so I think you guys are— kudos to everything you're doing because you're— You are doing that. You're building a relationship. You're being honest about stuff, which I think the other thing is COVID helped everyone realize is it's okay to be honest about your supply chain because we all actually understand, every consumer actually understood what a supply chain is, at least a little bit. So like, oh, I get it. It's not just a UPS driver shows up. There's this whole chain that has to happen before I can, before the UPS driver can deliver it, right? There's this, this massive thing that happens. And honesty through that process allows you to share what's going on and then for them to go, oh yeah, I do. I remember COVID. I remember. People still think it's in the past and they don't realize the supply chain is super messed up still, but at least there, at least there's some understanding. Oh yeah, it's a real thing. It takes a lot of work to make, make a product happen.

Yeah. So 100%, 100%. And I think the next challenge for us during our growth is how do we maintain that connection as well? Because it's important for us, you know, a lot of these companies, you know, from when they go from small to big, forget who their customers really are.

Right.

You know, this is, and this is, and this is something that we, that's one of the challenges that we will need to make sure that we We don't forget, um, you know, our customers. And because, you know, we, Joshua and I, are the customers as well. We are. This is why we've, we've made this, um, this product. And it's, it's important for us to maintain that relationship throughout our growth as well. And that's, that's going to be quite challenging but interesting.

Yeah, I think it's mostly a challenge Very few companies that have done it, right? It's, it's, it's one of those new, new areas that we're, we're— there's no, there's no clear roadmap of, well, if you wanna have this long-term company, you wanna build a good legacy, you wanna be remembered, you wanna stay connected, not lose all your customers, here's the roadmap. There is, there is no, there is no roadmap yet. Nobody's done it enough times to, to show. Uh, before, just as we're wrapping up here, um, I feel like we could talk forever about this, but—

Oh, we do.

I want to be aware of everyone's time. So to, to wrap things up, I'd love you— we talked a little bit about you're working on V2 coming out in 2023. What are, what are the things you're looking at long term, both in the brand, you know, To being able to stay in connection with your customers, kind of what are you guys thinking that you can share about the next things you guys are looking for? And then of course share where people can find you.

Sure. Josh, you can take this one.

Thank you very much. So initially we launched as a direct-to-consumer business, D2C focus. That was our focus. We're like, yeah, we wanna be the next Dollar Shave Club. COVID came along. We're like, okay, we can still do this. Amazing, amazing, amazing. And then we realized the cost of acquiring a customer after COVID, after iOS 14, how much that increased from a £3.50 acquiring customer on Kickstarter up to £15 and £16, which were currently paying, which we're not currently paying, but that's, that's where it is. So the— our focus has rapidly changed from direct-to-consumer into getting our products into retail. But along that journey of initially launching, going on Kickstarter, having that delay, we made sure that our D2C offering through the amazing development skills of Kiana and the website and our sales funnel were as convertible as possible. So if you go on our website, it's, you know, bias or not, it's a beautiful thing. It's the shortest number of clicks and the shortest journey you can get to understanding and purchasing the product. It's a pretty incredible experience. And we want to then move that experience into retail. How do we do that? Well, by making the most beautiful looking product stands available on shelves Across the globe. So we are in discussions with some pretty major retailers at the moment. We have been having a pop-up in Waitrose John Lewis to test out our product within the UK to make sure it is retailable. And oh my Lord, it is.

Amazing.

It did amazing over that past week. So we know the product has got serious legs in the retail space. So our focus now is 100% retail. With D2C still available. But how do we sell that to retailers? That's another challenge. We have to then portray our product in a way that— so the current product you can buy is a premium version with aluminum handle. We're launching a retail version in 2023 where it's retail focused. It's a lot more affordable. And this is competing with being more affordable than bamboo because bamboo is in England anyway, it's about £4 for a single handle. It's very expensive for kind of— wow, pretty medium.

Yeah.

And then it's slightly more expensive than the averagely priced plastic toothbrush. So we're really competing about making eco-friendly products more accessible, which we're seeing as the issue right now. People currently have in their mindset eco-friendly products premium, and they are unfortunately because of the materials, the technology, and the manufacturing processes are all novel and they're more expensive to do, they are more premium. So we are manufacturing a mass product that is very eco-friendly, that is affordable for all to have more impact about reducing single-use plastics from the planet. So that's our next focus next year. And the retail offering on the shelves is going to look like a retail-focused, premium-focused, all on the same shelf. And then our monthly replenishments, our head replacements, and then some accessories around that. So retailers want to see how can we access daily shoppers, weekly shoppers, and monthly recurring shoppers, and we now have an offering launching next year that will accommodate for all of those customers, and that's really our focus. So availability-wise, obviously you can buy from our website www.tooth.eco. There's currently a pretty good discount going on at the moment. You'll see banner. And then we're looking to launch across the UK in retail environments. And these are going to be the more premium environments for now, Waitrose, Marks Spencer's. But we will hopefully be accessing every other retailer on the planet, Target, Macro, that will allow consumers to be able to purchase our product for an affordable price that makes it work for everyone. You know, there's a cost of living coming up that we're all seeing, cost of living increasing, and we want to make sure that our products is affordable for all. We don't want to be pricing people out of making a difference to the planet. So, um, yeah, soon you should be able to see it in retail environments and, uh, coming to a retailer near you.

Fantastic. Well, I think, I think that approach of, you know, Premium, prove it, pay for the R&D, get through get through the material research we talked about, right? Get get it to work because that's the biggest thing. You can't sell any something that doesn't work. Mass producing a bad product doesn't doesn't help anybody in the end. So now that you have it, I think it's a great step to making it more more accessible, which I think is. What you brought up is, is huge. It's a huge point right now of people going, yeah, it's great, and I don't have an iPhone budget for every single product I purchase, so I'm gonna buy the plastic. So being able to compete with that is, is an amazing, amazing point to be able to offer people. Um, so yeah, well, I really appreciate both of you taking the time to share what you're doing. It's, it's amazing. It's, it's great to see your successful, successful enough for investors to invest, which means you're doing the money side, but you're also getting great customer feedback. So your product doesn't suck too. So you're, you're checking the boxes off, and it's great to see you guys being so successful in this space. And hopefully, hopefully you'll keep taking sales of plastic toothbrushes away, and maybe we'll get that 3 billion toothbrushes to decrease over some time.

So yeah, I really hope so as well. And wanted to add to, you know, where you can find us apart from our website. You can also find us on Instagram and TikTok. So that is Tooth.Eco. And Twitter as well. It's Tooth_Eco. So super easy to remember. And yeah, like, follow, subscribe, share, all of the above.

And Do all the things.

All those things.

All the things. And we'll have— for everyone that's listening, we'll have in our show notes all of the links, all those things. So it'll be easy. We'll make it easy as possible for consumers to check that out.

Awesome.

Well, thank you so much, guys. We appreciate it.

Thank you. Thank you so much for your time.

Thank you so much.