Interview with Nick Mailhiot of Michelin on Design and Mobility

Hi, my name is Ian Peterman, and I'm here with Nick. He's with Michelin Tires, and we wanted— we're going to talk about a design challenge that's been put together moving on Summit, and want to talk about how you got involved with that, Nick.

Awesome. Well, this is a really cool opportunity for, for me. And then also, you know, representing Michelin is a really cool side of this. But like you mentioned, the, the Moving On Challenge, which kind of transitioned last year. So before that, it was Michelin Challenge Design. And just kind of— we can, we can kind of walk all over around this, around this topic, but just very briefly, it's a, it's a 21-year-old competition. And It used to kind of focus on automotive styling, but we've kind of moved it into another direction where we focus on people and really like design with, with a purpose. So how do you make life better for people? And I guess the bigger, the big question for me is how do we ask, continue to ask questions, put challenges into the world, that people want to participate, participate in and just continue to get that, that participation.

Well, having 21 years of being a competition probably gives a pretty good, you know, base of interest so that when you do make a shift like that, people actually notice. And have you seen participation increase so far? Has shifting it to human-centered instead of just more focused on the styling? Is that just— has that helped grow? Is there more people saying, oh, I want to be a part of this? Or what has that done in terms of interest?

Yeah, so that's really cool. So I took over the program about 2 and a half years ago, probably, from a guy named Ben Ebel. And so Ben is— he's also a designer. So I'm an industrial designer by trade. I went to school for human-centered design, and I really care about people. But Ben, he was trained in transportation design. So he went to ArtCenter and he had a predecessor as well, but the name is slipping for the guy that was before Ben. But Ben really wanted to do like these very emotional and passionate challenges. And so he ran the program for about 6 or 7 years with another person that his name is John Love. And John's been associated to the program since day one. So I think the initial story was, how can we, you know, get the design community to help us understand the world in terms of transportation design and where that's going to go? So down the line, there's a lot of challenges. So we were involved with CCS, and we were involved with ArtCenter, and we, and we, we landed in the transportation space quite frequently. So with Ben, he kind of ramped up the program. In terms of passion. And if you find transportation designers, they're just, they're so passionate about what they're doing in terms of creativity and artfulness, but then also the core skills are fantastic. So I would say that Ben really helped the program get to the place where it was before I started. And then with my background in human-centered design, taking it over from, from Ben, that's been, I would say, a plus one to the foundation that he laid. So we have, we have really good participation, and I think the way for me to frame it in terms of growth is the— and from my perspective, of course— is the quality of the idea and the package that gets put together. The thing that we get to see are these really fruitful ideas, and it's a global competition, so I haven't had too much experience or exposure to global challenges like this before. Mission Challenge Design, which is now Moving On Challenge Design. And that part of it is awesome because you get to see the different perspectives and vantage points from the designers throughout the entire world. So I think we've had participation from like 136 countries.

Oh, amazing.

Close to 15,000 people over the course of, you know, the 21, well, 20 years, because we have a challenge coming up in the next few months where we can, you know, there'll be another winner. So From that, in terms of numbers, I think they're quite stable in terms of just sheer results, but what I'm really proud of is that we get reached out by professors from universities. We have students, we'll do interviews from the winners, and it's always very emotional and very passionate, and that's a really good feeling, especially in the world of design when you're constantly working on projects, you're trying to push the ball forward, A lot of times you can face this adversity and this challenge, and to see the enthusiasm from the global community of creatives, because it's not just limited to designers, we ask engineers and marketers, anyone creative, like artists, the whole spectrum. We're not gonna kind of shun away anyone in terms of ideas, and you get to see the fruitfulness in that and the different ways people view things. And honestly, that part of it is really cool. You get through the language barrier. So last year we had a winner from South America, I think he was from Brazil, Brazil, and then we had South Korea and China. So it's like you really, you really get to see the cultural diversity in that, which is really exciting. And bringing in the human-centered design aspect of it, I think that's foundational. You have to understand culture, and you have to understand who you're designing for. But with the economy now, we can't just focus on the US or Canada, you know, bordering countries.

Right.

Seeing the global creativity is awesome, and I think that's kind of the compounded value that I kind of bring, that Ben, he laid down the groundwork and a solid foundation for me, and now it's how can we introduce, how can we build on top of the transportation segment, but focus on around mobility and building a better future of mobility for people globally. Do this challenge.

Right. Well, it's such a more open concept, right? Mobility and what it means. So I, you know, I love the fact that it's— you opened it to, you know, it's not just a designer design competition, which there's lots of those, right? They're very designer-focused. And I love the idea of, well, what does a marketer think about mobility. What is, you know, what does a marketer from South America think about mobility? And what does an engineer, you know, in China think about mobility? And being able to see that broad spread, because I definitely feel as an American designer, we're generally very focused on the American, you know, it's our country, right? But it's also our market that we heavily focus on and It is like you said, the— with the pandemic, it's even more brought into focus. Like, we are a global community. We're not— the design for just one tiny, tiny segment isn't really a thing, and you have to be more aware. So that added awareness is really beneficial. And I'm kind of curious, like, what You get all these great ideas that come through. Is there—

have any of them, you know, gone into fruition?

And have any of them really moved forward? Are they inspiring other, you know, Michelin or other companies even to go, oh, that's a great idea, maybe we should, should do something like that?

Yeah, wonderful. It's a wonderful question. And that is something that we, we do get asked quite a bit. And with the students' work, or, you know, not just students, but any participant's work, the idea that the jury— so just to be like super transparent with it, I have the luxury and the fortune to see all the work. I don't judge it. So we have a really cool team of jury members that represent a portion of transportation, but then there's a portion of architecture, and we're trying to build the diversity around our jury. I guess our jury pool, if you will. And for them, when they decide on an idea, it's our responsibility as Michelin to kind of put that idea into the space. And honestly, Moving On Challenge or Moving On Summit, which is the home, I guess you could say, of the challenge now, Moving on gives us a space to put these ideas into the world. And so at this point in time, we've never moved forward with an idea, even though they're really excellent ideas. As a concept phase, it's always fruitful to get to a concept, but then there's— that's the first phase of a project, if you will.

Right.

So then the second phase of viability and third phase of production, if it were to be a physical object, we've never moved forward with that. But with Moving On being the way that it is now, which is about making progress and moving the ball forward in terms of sustainability and the betterment of society, if we were to come across something that, that fit that space, and usually we do get quite a few ideas that fit that space, but if there was something that would resonate with that community of people, I wouldn't say it'd be impossible to build something out like that. We just haven't done it at this point in time. But it's definitely inspiring, which I believe was one of your— was part of your question. It's definitely inspiring to me as a designer, but it's inspiring to the group, the people that put the challenge on, and the team that runs the Movement On Summit. They get to experience this stuff as well. And I think the quote unquote value, if you will, is you see the potential and the care and the passion of people wanting to make a difference. So in terms of creating something that goes to live inside a space of society, we haven't done that yet, but it's not to say we can't in the future.

Right. Well, and I know there's physical products. I worked in that space my whole life, so I know it's It's not just, oh, let's make a product. It's, okay, well, let's validate. Let's— we're gonna have to spend R&D time and money, and it takes quite a bit to do it. But it's great that there's a platform though, that this can be that platform of, okay, well, we have ideas.

We have, you know, this pool of people that really wanna make a change and, you know, more sustainable options. You know, those kind of things are— you know, very important now, and people are even more aware of, you know, let's make the world a better place. Let's be more sustainable.

Let's be aware.

Let's be conscious about, you know, what's going on and how to solve problems.

Exactly. And it's great.

You mentioned like professors and schools. So do you have a lot of— is there a huge amount of student Involvement, is that like one of the primary groups of people that enter this?

Yeah, I think you could say that. It would be fair to go that route, but there's also design professionals that have interest in doing it, and honestly, we don't know the root cause. So the reward, I guess, what someone gets out of this is they get to meet with the juries and the jury members, and they get a portfolio review with people that are very established within the design community, which is awesome. In non-COVID-related times, they get to go to the summit and participate and, you know, have a networking opportunity there, and they're recognized on this platform, and Michelin stands behind them. So from that standpoint, it's a good— I guess it's a good thing.

Right. You mentioned that you have, you know, The jury, so to speak, is that reviews everything and, you know, look at— looks at who's winner and selecting best for the best. And you mentioned like architecture being involved. Like, what is— what has that process been of like, okay, well, mobility, we have, you know, transportation. Let's— What drove you to look at architecture as, as the next kind of group to bring in and Are you wanting to expand that more? What does that look like?

Yeah, without a doubt. So just focusing on people and the different avenues that they can provide and the perspectives that they bring. You spend time, for example, if you were to spend one time at one school and you were just to ask questions, you might get people and their perspectives to live within that group set, I guess, of that community. And so for us, we want people from transportation to participate with the, with the jury, or as a jury member, and contribute in that sense. But we also want people with other thoughts, other perspectives. And it's kind of like formulating a collaboration. And like, how do you get a really fruitful, a fruitful brainstorm? Is by, from my perspective, is having all these different perspectives and vantage points so that you can say, well, I consider it this way from a, from a transportation side. And there's some cool styling elements, and it's cool, and it fits the culture, et cetera. But then from the architecture side, you could say that they had value from understanding materials in a different way, understanding ideas from a different way. And then if you go past that, even just people that have a strong sense of creativity and design, maybe they live in a different medium altogether, but the way that they see the world is— I kind of view it like we're all working towards this common goal of using this creative skill set to make the world a better place. And they're adding their perspective in a way that it's just and-one. It's just gonna build up the way that we see design in general. And so, yeah, adding more diversity I think is always a great thing. Building on those ideas from different vantage points, I think it's a massively important thing to do, and that's definitely an initiative for us.

Yeah, it's good to hear other people I think that as well, because that's one of the things that I've— I've always fascinated me is when I've been on a design team and worked with somebody in a totally different space, like work with a toy designer on something and not have that background, and just the amount of concepting ideas that you can come up with, the, the whole, you know, design and think tank that you kind of create with that. is so much more unique with that background. So having that as part of your jury is— yeah, I actually don't know of any other design competitions that don't have just designers of one specific type. So that's really unique, and I think that's a great— yeah, it's a great pull to bring in different ideas.

It also, it just like, it reiterates the significance of having multiple minds on something. So for a jury event, what we do, we'll take all of our entries and we'll kind of do like a bit of a pre-sort. So we'll understand like what ones we want to move forward. So like out of the pool that we get, we'll select like 80 to 100 and we'll move those things forward. So, I mean, just in the sheer element of time, we have to be mindful of the jury members because they have full-time jobs.

Right.

And most, definitely all, they're all very responsible for big brands. So we don't want to waste their time. But, you know, taking, taking those ideas and putting, putting those things in front of them, you get this really cool dialogue when you have the diversity and you have the different perspectives of, like, for example, last year there was this really cool entry that was, I think, focusing on— it was like a motorcycle, motorcycle tricycle that would help people get food from, from different places. So mobility in the sense of like functionality. And get these perspectives because one jury would be like, jury member would be like, well, this is really cool because, you know, the platform is this way and it could, it can maybe modify itself to be this. And the other person is like, yeah, but I can see this in this culture and that's perfect because I visited there. And so you have this like awesome dialogue and you just, you wouldn't get that if you didn't have one, a jury event, and two, the diversity of people thinking about things in a very Personalized way, you know, like they're bringing their experiences to the challenge and that adds human to it. And yeah, it's massively important.

Yeah, I think I'd almost want to be a fly on the wall to listen to those conversations now.

It's cool.

It would just be so interesting.

That's inspiring.

This human side that you kind of bring in because you're a human-centric focused designer.

This is very—

this is a very human-focused process that you just outlined. It's very, very— I think it's unique in the competition space. And also, it's just a good— and I agree that, like, human-centered, we need to be. We don't really have an option.

Sure.

And so it's great that you're able to bring that to a competition, because at competitions, I see as a At least from what I've seen in my days of design school, that was like student competitions, anything a student could apply to, like it was, it was just exciting to try to go do. And so being able to provide that perspective and having something human-focused to students, I think, is a great, great way to help show like, yeah, A, we do care, and B, a big company. I mean, Michelin is not a small, small company by any means. And so having, having that backing say, oh yeah, we're a big company. And yeah, human, human-centered design is, is a thing. We've shifted a whole design competition to make it more that way, I think is a big statement.

It's—

And it's kudos to you, you and Michelin for, for making that happen and the work that And you said Dan, your predecessor?

Yeah, Ben.

Ben, that was great.

Emotion is like a huge first step, right? Moving out of, oh, we just engineer it and we're very analytical. So that's like, that's a great kind of step up that I don't think people really think about either of like, well, you need this baseline of emotion before you can really relate to humans. I mean, because we're emotional people, right?

So, without a doubt, you know, like that, that combination of things is, is massively important. And like thinking about all the people that are, that are in, have vested interest in what you're doing as well. So mobility being a staple of life, like think about like, so right now in my, in my office, if I had no ability to leave or go anywhere, like my life would be just dramatically different.

Right.

And so mobility is great, and we've focused on it for so long in a very similar way, kind of like designed for the masses or the broad spectrum. I mean, I don't know if broad spectrum is the right word, but maybe I'll just leave it for the masses. I mean, the OEMs, they come up with a solution very similar pretty frequently, and the platforms might change. So it might be electric, and even the idea of autonomy, which it does push the boundaries a little bit, but there's so many mobility solutions around like, let's be super performant or let's be very eco. And those are great things for a variety of reasons. But I think, and especially relating to our challenge this year of really focusing on design for inclusion, how do you, how do you design something for people that have almost been left out of that equation? So the super young or the older or people with some form of disability, you know, what does that look like in terms of a design solution? Because then you're adding tremendous value to people's lives that archetypally haven't had the ability to go and be into the world like some others. And so I'm really inspired by that notion of inclusive design and to the conversation we had A few minutes ago, I'm really excited to see what the jury brings to the table in terms of that topic and how they're gonna respond to it and kind of build on that whole notion or that idea.

Right.

Well, and it is such a— when you kind of shift out of I design a car to let's look at mobility, it is such a— we're not really sedentary species. Like, it's actually not good for us. So mobility is like this huge part of our many cultures and, and going and doing things. Like, we are— most people, you know, there are those people that would be really happy sitting at home and never interacting with people, but for most it is. And even those, it's— there's mobility in, you know, if you want to live at home, we all figured out, you know, logistics When all the stores ran out of items at the beginning, like we all very— anybody that wasn't aware that mobility was a requirement for products getting to you became super aware. So there's so much mobility that has to go into our lives, actually, even behind the scenes that we don't think about, right? Like you get an Amazon package in 2 days. Well, A lot of people have, and objects have to move just to make that one thing show up. And it's all mobility, like it's all there. And I think that's a component that people were not necessarily as aware of, like what it really takes to ship something. Once it stops, then you're like, oh, I'm not getting Amazon packages in 2 days. What's going on?

Right.

It's kind of that once you lose it, you're like, oh, what's going on? What's happening there?

Yeah. And that level of elevation in the Amazon example, that's great for people that need to get their packages. But like, if you can take that idea and push it to other spaces within design, like for example, we used to think it was a really, really cool idea to be able to like log onto a computer and like in 2 minutes you could be online. Like via dial-up. And that was a great—

Oh, I remember that.

Right. It's like, I was watching a TV show and like the noise came on and it's like this, like now it's painful. But back then it was like an icon of you're going somewhere in this like virtual space. And so some people, like we're responsible for that, you know, not you and I, but obviously just society in general, but they raised that technical ability and that capability. And now we're somewhere so much better. And it's like, if you did that, but for like people, for all people, all groups of people, and you really focus on areas where they don't have— certain groups of people don't have the, the same needs, I guess, as you, as other people, as like the mainstream people that OEMs are designing for, you elevate their life. Like you're just going to raise society in general and everyone, you know, you're being inclusive of everyone there.

Right.

And that is like, how do we do that? How do we raise, you know, their awareness and their emotional experience to be so much better than what it is now? And, you know, it's just like, I hope to see that. I hope in like 10 years, like, we get to see like these really interesting experiences pop up for people that typically didn't have that experience available to them. You know, I think that's, that's super exciting to me.

Yeah, I think that I completely agree. I mean, it's— there are, you know, segments of users that just haven't had a huge focus that, you know, like you mentioned, people with disabilities or, you know, even just different types of mobility that people would be interested in. It's been interesting to watch, like, I'd say it's like almost the last mile transportation of like little electric scooters and little, you know, things that 10 years ago no one would have been really into, but now we're just— there's whole companies with entire product lines of just little mobility devices. And, you know, they're not going anywhere crazy. They're going, you know, they go what, 5 miles an hour, maybe have like a 5-mile range, but people are like— there's skyrocket— there's multiple companies. It's not just— A little fad thing. It's growing and it's still growing. And so like that, I think, has also been helping. It seems to be helping people's awareness of, oh, there, there is other mobility. There is other— like, people want more than just a car and a bus and a train and a plane. Like, they want more than just those options. And those options can be used by people that have never, you know, had mobility before. or in a certain way or haven't been really paid attention to. Yeah.

So yeah. Or like, I always like to think about the example of like, we can make sports cars go like hundreds of miles an hour, right? Like we've elevated it to a point that like, we can't even, we can't even like a Bugatti Veyron. We can't even, like, if I had it, right, I couldn't go on the street and use it.

Nope.

But we have the capability, like, let's do that for everybody. Like in some, some way, shape, or form, you know, that I think would be so cool.

Yeah, that would be amazing. I like, I like your 10-year goal. Let's make it happen.

That would be— yeah, that's great. That's, um, so I think you have to define— yeah, you have to define your goals as like short, medium, and long term. So I don't know where to put that one, but yeah, it's definitely inspiring.

Yeah, well, you need, you need some aspirational goals too, I think, that aren't really timeline. They're just, they're just there to drive everything else.

Yeah. Yeah, so this, I mean, being definitely being associated to the challenge, like I get the— I feel very fortunate to be exposed to things like this and just kind of represent it from a design perspective or be part of it from a design perspective. Like that's, it's nice, it's good to challenge the way that I think about things and the way that I understand the world and all of that stuff. And with Michelin and moving on supporting the challenge, like I I feel really grateful, but I know that all of the entrants feel really grateful as well of having this opportunity to challenge themselves, but then also challenge the world and create these ideas. And I don't know, I don't know many other career paths where people will do free work to just put an idea into the world. And I think that's amazing because that speaks volumes for what design is.

Yeah, I hadn't really thought about it that way, but you're absolutely right.

I can't think of another, any other industry that works for free as much as the designers do, but there's so many great ideas. There's so many great ideas that come from it. So I think it's worth it in the end, all the time that we put into it.

Yeah, they move it. They move the ball forward without even knowing that they're doing it, and I think the level of inspiration is almost like music and mashups. Back in the day, mashups were really bad, but now they're great and they're sought after because it's like this creative concoction of greatness that, you know, just a different way.

Perfect. Well, I really appreciate you being on here and us having this time to talk about this competition and just the ways that you guys are pushing sustainability and inclusivity in design. I think it's, you know, we need more of it. So it's really nice to see big company putting, putting their money and time into such an effort. That is a platform and it's a great platform for other people to also push that ahead. You know, you're talking about designers push the ball ahead and without a platform, it's really hard to do it, you know, by yourself. So, you know, I've—

this has been really great.

I really appreciate talking to you and Yeah, I guess where, you know, anybody listening to this, where would they go to find out more information or be involved in this competition, which sounds like it'll probably last another 20 years?

Yeah, I hope, I hope farther than that for sure, but thanks for the plug there. michelinchallengedesign.com, you can enter the competition. We want everyone to apply, even if you feel like you— there's the value in applying, or you don't feel like your technical skill set is there, we still want all of your ideas. So We are truly open to everyone participating. And you can go to, I think it's themovingonsummit.com with— to learn more about the summit. So, or Moving On Connect. Google Moving On and it's there for sure. We've changed a little bit.

Perfect.

All right.

Well, thanks, Nick. I appreciate it.

No worries. Thanks for having me.