Landscaping and Social Shift with Natalie Ross of Ross Land Studio

Hello and welcome to this episode of Conscious Design. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, and author of the Conscious Design book. And with me today, I have Natalie Ross, founder of Rosslyn Studio, and we're going to be talking about landscape architecture. Welcome to the show.

Thank you.

So I always love to start off with What got you into landscape architecture? And if you could share a little bit about what you do with that, because everybody knows what architecture is, but landscape architecture is not this, not buildings.

Nope. Sure. Yeah. So I kind of got started. I studied geography when I was in college. And I was always interested in art, and I kind of went down the geography path and worked as a cartographer for a while. I actually drove one of those like Google cars that you see around, or at least you used to. And I just decided that I wanted to do something that was more creative, but still, you know, spatial. And so I came across landscape architecture. I actually I didn't know about it like most people until I started looking into that kind of specific realm. And so I went and got my master's at the University of Minnesota with their landscape architecture program. And that was really great. I learned a lot. And then I went out and worked in Seattle for 10 years after that as a landscape architect. And I worked on a pretty wide range of projects. you know, public parks, campus designs, residential landscapes, a lot of commercial work. You might know in Seattle, Amazon kind of took over the whole city. So everybody in the design world was basically scrambling to design for them wherever they expanded to. And it was, it was very interesting. A lot of different issues with you know, the public realm and, and how you interface with the public and the private sides of things. That's really where landscape architects shine, is they're, they're very good at thinking about a lot of different things, putting on a lot of different hats, working with different kinds of engineers and designers to bring things together in, in this public space that's Really hard to control with all the people, weather, living organisms. It's, it's not for people who like to have a lot of control. And that's, to me, is one of the really fun parts of being a landscape architect is you just never really know what is going to happen. And each, each job is just totally new. So ever since, you know, I've, I've been working on a wide range of projects. And so So I moved to Cedar Rapids, which is my hometown, Cedar Rapids, Iowa, in 2019, and started my own business called Rossland Studio. And so I've done mostly residential work here, but I'm currently working on a public park, some commercial work. So I'm starting to get into that realm as well.

And is that— so obviously the role shines in these bigger projects, is that You know, I've never heard of anybody hiring a landscape architect for their house yard. Is that— do you work in residential? So do you scale down to the, hey, I got 12 feet by 12 feet kind of space? Or do you need more space to be able to really do what you do?

Well, one of the reasons that I decided to start my own business was that I'm particularly interested in the plant side of landscape architecture. I think it It just is the thing that really sets us apart from other kinds of designers, and it's just something that I've always loved. So when that translates to residential projects, you know, it can, it can go from a super high-end mansion that wants to spend $100,000, you know, on very traditional, like French parterres and retaining walls and lots of plantings. But it can also be someone who wants to put a butterfly garden in and they've never gardened before. And that's actually something that's really fun for me is I, I now teach people how to garden. I garden alongside with them and show them which plants are weeds and which ones aren't.

Yeah.

I go out, you know, 4 times a year for different seasons and help them do maintenance. And, you know, it's sort of just increasing the literacy of people working with plants. And that's really satisfying. And I think, you know, it's almost more impactful working side by side with somebody to take care of their landscape than, you know, building some big fancy design for a corporation.

Right.

So I really like that aspect of just being able to choose what kinds of jobs that I do and working across these really different scales.

Yeah, that's part of why I've started my own company too. So I want to do projects I like, not just whichever one my boss told me to.

Yep. Yep. I mean, there's always good things and bad things about having your own business.

Oh, yes.

I mean, for the most part, I think it's really good and I've enjoyed it quite a bit.

That's awesome. Now, one of the things I wanted to ask is a lot of people think about, right, curb appeal, So, you know, there's obviously the value side of having a well-taken care of yard, even, you know, on a commercial scale, right? You, it all matters, right? We don't like looking at nothing or badly maintained is even worse for those buildings.

Yeah.

But what are other things, and especially on the plant side for you, like what are other benefits when you're putting these together? Because you're talking about, you know, the people themselves kind of What are those other things that people don't always think about in terms of the value that a well-designed landscape can actually bring you?

Yeah, I think that's a really good question. I mean, the obvious things are, like you said, curb appeal and the increase in, you know, asking price of a property. But I'm working with a developer in Cedar Rapids who is trying to carve out kind of unique lower price point rentals for people in the city. And so we're working together to try to create a different kind of landscape for these rental properties. One of the things we talk about is that a lot of these properties that are in a lower income area are in food deserts, and they have generally lower access to vehicles. They are maybe in areas that don't have as much greenery. They don't have access to parks. And so there's an opportunity within just these rental properties to try to provide some of those benefits that they might not get in a traditional rental. So things like raised beds to be able to grow their own food, you know. Shared tools for, for them to be able to do maintenance or a place to park a bike and be able to work on their bike. And just, I think, I think that everybody is starting to hear about the benefits of plants through biophilia. Just, you know, you know what working with plants and being in a green outdoor environment can do for your stress levels. increasing focus. So there's so many benefits to having access to that and actually partaking in gardening or, you know, just spending time outdoors. So that's something that I think is a really cool opportunity is to be able to bring that not just to somebody who can afford a landscape architect on their own private property, but trying to bring that to more people.

Right.

And especially in cities like Cedar Rapids where, you know, We don't have the kind of development that happens in tier 1 cities. You're not seeing these huge apartment complexes with rooftop terraces, and you know, all the amenities that you would get in a big city. It's kind of carved out and scrapped together. And so that's also kind of a cool opportunity for a small business like me to partner with other people who want to think creatively and And just try to bring some of these assets to people that might not otherwise get them.

That's awesome. That's definitely needed. I know it's always, my wife always loves it when there's like a community garden that's available or at least close by, even if we don't use it. If we're, it was just like, oh, it's nice to even just know that there's a space. For it.

For sure.

Yeah. And seeing it too and seeing people gardening is so cool, you know? Yeah, it's, and I'm not a, I'm not a green thumb. I do not, I don't know how to keep things alive. I, I gardened a little bit when I was a kid, so it's not my, it's not my thing. But it's always like, oh, that's really cool. Like, that's awesome that it's, it's there. And, and seeing people there is like, oh good, it's being used and it's, somebody is getting really happy. Doing it, which is awesome.

Well, I always tell my clients that the number one, I guess, design challenge is to get people to actually go out and use the landscape that we design. Because if it's not something that is really going to draw you out and use it, then it's not worth spending the money on it. And that's, I think that's one really cool thing about landscape architects is they try to really think about how people will use the space so that they will actually be there. They'll be out there, people will see them. It's a place for community. So, you know, it's a very interesting melding of kind of sociology and geography and botany, and it's very fun.

Hey, it's Ian here. So glad you're enjoying this episode of Conscious Design. If you want the full scoop on Conscious Design, what it is, how we do it, how you can do it, then check out our book. We wrote it so creative entrepreneurs like you can code social and environmental responsibility right into your brand's DNA. You can download the first chapter for free. Link is in the description. Enjoy the rest of the episode. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share. Yeah, you're blending a lot of things together that don't always get put together, like, you know, engineering a space and plants.

Right.

It's nice. Most people don't get to mix plants into their things.

Yeah.

I wanted to ask too, so when you're, when you're approaching, do you have a process that you go through or a way to approach, or is it, is it just so different based on biome that, you know, if you're in a different area, it's just a completely different approach to how you design a space?

Yeah, I think that the particular biome, like you say, does make a big difference. I mean, there are some general design principles that you can always kind of follow. And, you know, thinking through how to lay out a landscape aesthetically, I don't think would necessarily change from place to place. You know, you use the same design principles like symmetry and balance. But for sure, in the Midwest, there are some things to think about that you wouldn't in Arizona. Like, you know, what, how is this material going to face all the salt that they put down for freezing weather? Or, you know, what's it going to be like to shovel this? We definitely want to make sure that we're planting things that won't die in the subzero temperatures. And I really like to practice using naturalistic design when it comes to planting. And so in the Midwest, that's really kind of mimicking 2 specific biomes, which is the grassland biome and then the woodland edge biome. And so with grasslands, you want to choose at least a third of the plant material as grasses. To support other kind of flowering plants. And then in woodlands, it's a really diverse kind of grouping of plants that gets both sun and shade. But there's just some specific requirements for that. And you can think about what some of the dominant trees would be in our native forests. So, you know, you can really get down into the nitty-gritty of what the habitats are native to this place. But generally speaking, yeah, I kind of start big picture and then hone into the more detailed Got it.

And when you're— so when you're designing, are you, are you also— because I noticed some of your work, there's, you know, especially in parks and stuff, you're doing paths, you're doing, you know, other things. It's not just, you know, a bunch of plants and it's done. Is that like, how do you approach that design? Is it just a, hey, we want to meander through, or is it— You know, does it really just vary kind of how do you approach that human interaction so you can actually see all of it instead of just, just making it all random?

Right. Well, that aspect of it, I really tried to spend a lot of time with my clients trying to understand what it is that they want and how they'll use the space. So, you know, a single retired person might use a space very differently than a group of constituents in a public space. And so I think at the very beginning of a project, the most important thing is to really listen to what your clients are asking for, and to also use your experience and kind of examples of projects to elicit ideas from them that they might not otherwise have thought of. And I find it to be helpful to actually go through and create some really basic concepts before I even talk to somebody, because it, I get such a rich conversation from them seeing examples of plans or, or just seeing the possibilities of what it could be. And I think that really expands what they might, how they might put themselves into the landscape. And I really like to use pictures of landscapes with people as examples because they can kind of step into them and imagine themselves in those different spaces. And it elicits very strong feelings, usually good, but some people are like, no, no, no, I definitely don't want that. And so that's, that's definitely my initial process with people is just getting their gut reactions to different kind of styles. I like to show people a slide of different styles of gardens. Some of them are very rectilinear, mass plantings of all the same kind of texture and color, minimalist versus like an English garden, for example, which is really wild, and the plants might be as tall as you are. Lots of color, lots of texture. The paths don't have very strong edges, and people have strong reactions to those 2 things. And usually they like one and not the other. So I think that's often a good place to start, especially on the residential side. And I mean, when it comes to commercial projects, there usually are much more specific criteria that they're looking for. They've got a very specific budget. You know, they want a space for their employees to have lunch. You know, they already have other designers working on the project. And so you're kind of trying to get in line with what the aesthetic is that's already established. So it's a very different process when it comes to the commercial side of things.

Got it. What would, if you were to talk to someone and, you know, people hire landscapers, right? And what would be the big kind of benefit of going, don't just randomly landscape, engage with a landscape architect? What is that extra level you can bring Beyond just, you know, me going to Home Depot and grabbing some trees and throwing it in, you know, or people that, you know, do landscaping but aren't, you know, they don't have a master's in landscape architecture or anything close to it.

For sure. I guess there's a lot of different ways I could answer that. I mean, for you just going to Home Depot and buying a tree, you could talk to me and you might have a much better chance of your tree surviving. I mean, it has to do with suggesting ways to plant, plants to choose from, you know, time to plant, all those different things. But more big picture, I do talk to a lot of people who hire landscapers and then end up with something that they don't really want. I think often landscapers and nurseries, which kind of work hand in hand, don't often consider consider, um, a more ecological side of planting. Um, specifically, they, they don't avoid invasive species. They don't necessarily push natives. They don't think about planting in, um, I guess, a more long-term scale.

Mm-hmm.

And And that's just the planting side of things. You know, the other thing that landscapers often do is that they have a financial incentive to use certain products, or they are recommended by a local rep who has certain kinds of products. And so they won't necessarily do exactly what you're asking for, but might push just something that they're comfortable with or that they'll make more money on. And so you're probably more likely to get a more customized and suitable landscape when you talk to a designer, landscape designer.

Got it.

And that's on the residential side. I mean, I think the great thing about some big cities is that now a lot of times they're requiring you to hire a landscape architect when you're doing any project in the public realm, whether that's—

Oh, really?

Public right-of-way, or if it's a shared use space that, you know, the public can access. In Seattle, there was a really cool program that, that allowed the city to require developers to do more than your standard green parkway next to the street. And so if you—

Right, your one strip of grass. Yeah, maybe.

Right. So if you wanted to have your building go up, you know, an extra couple of stories, you had to give back to the city some sort of asset to the public. And then you were also required to plant more than just grasses, something that infiltrated stormwater, some kind of stormwater best management practice. You had to have your plans be approved by a city arborist. And so there are a lot of steps that the developers would have to go through to get their plans permitted through the city. And so that is probably why Seattle has some of the, like, most landscape architects of any city, because it's kind of built into the fabric of the legislation and the way that the city runs. And I think that's a great model because they end up with really good projects and high-quality projects.

Right.

And it supports industry. So, you know, as cities are growing and developing new ways of thinking about working with the design community. I really like to advocate for some of these sustainability standards that would require a permitted and licensed landscape architect to weigh in on the design. I mean, because you see that with other engineering, you have to have a stamped, you know, drawing from a civil, electrical, structural, because, you know, it makes sense. You want your project to work and be long-lasting. And we're just now starting to value, I think, the external space as well, and really want a professional to weigh in on that.

Yes, I didn't realize that about Seattle. I know there's always lots of greenery and stuff, right? It's always there architecturally, but I didn't know that. It makes a lot of sense why it's there now that I know that. But that's Yeah, that's awesome. That's, that would be a great model to, to copy for sure. Um, the last thing I wanted to ask here is, do you have a favorite project you've worked on, small, big, that you just were able to do kind of everything you're wanting, be most sustainable, be able to really do what you really do and not just Work in a little tiny box and get stuck.

Yeah, yeah, that's a great question. There was a project that I worked on with the firm I was working with in Seattle. That firm's called Site Workshop, and it was for a healthcare facility in Seattle. It was a really cool project. I mean, the architect was great to work with.

Uh, NBBJ. Always helpful.

What, what we did there was create a healing garden and landscape that was kind of based on this original, um, it was a spring, a natural spring that Native people had used on that site for healing. And so we actually uncovered, uh, a buried pipe and made it into a giant wetland that, you know, patients could walk over. You know, it went from just all grass and shrubs to something that was really quite beautiful to walk through and had a lot of different plants and gardens. I guess I felt really good about it because it was, it was kind of healing the landscape as well as helping to heal people that were using that space.

That's awesome.

And it kind of ties in all of the principles of, of why I like this profession, um, you know, doing good in the outdoors and, and helping people and plants and animals. So, uh, and, and it just turned out to be a really beautiful project. Um, it was called the Meridian Center for Health.

Okay.

Yeah, that, that was one that I was really proud of. Um, and I hope to do more projects like that in, in Cedar Rapids, in the Midwest area. I think it takes, you know, a little bit of time to establish a business, but that's my goal is to start making those kind of landscapes that really have an impact on people.

Yeah, that's awesome. That's like, you covered a lot of boxes with, with that one project. Yeah, really, that was really cool being able to To do that. I'm gonna have to look it up and, and see if I can find some photos of it.

Very cool. I, it's on my website, so you can check it out.

Perfect. I'll look there. Well, yeah, so I, I really appreciate your time. This has been a lot of fun talking to you and learning about landscape architecture, something I didn't know about until, until we connected. Before we wrap up though, is there anything else you want to share? Talk about? Anything we missed?

You know, I just read this really funny, I guess, reaction to a commercial during the Super Bowl. Okay, so I didn't watch the Super Bowl. I only saw it after the fact, but there was an ad with Jenny McCarthy where it was for, I think, Booking.com or something. And she wanted to go on this vacation. And in one of the scenes, she said she was like singing this song and saying, I want a good-looking landscaper. And then the guy turns and he's like, landscape architect. It's supposed to be a joke because, you know, landscape architects don't ever get credit for anything, and people think they're landscapers. They're like very sensitive about this. So all the landscape architecture community is like, oh, we need to talk to Jenny McCarthy and retract that statement. And it's not fair. Like, it's a joke. And, you know, I, I guess I, I've come to a point where I feel really good about working with plants. And if somebody thinks I'm a landscaper, That's cool, because that is, I think, a really worthwhile and valuable thing to do. So, you know, as much as I've talked about how landscape architecture is this, you know, very wide-ranging and important career, I also just love working with plants and really respect people that do that. And so I thought that was kind of a funny thing that happened this year.

That is funny. I didn't, I didn't see that commercial, but I, I would agree with you. I think, I think it's really important to appreciate that side of things if you're gonna be working with it. I mean, it'd be like being electrical engineering and hating electricity, I guess. I don't, I wouldn't, it'd be like, oh, why? Go do something else. It's okay.

Right.

It's okay.

I want more people to get their hands dirty.

I— more people should, definitely. Oh, perfect. Well, where can people find you if they want to work with you, read about what you've worked on, see what you're up to? What's the best place to find you or contact you?

Uh, well, I— all my contact information is on my website. It's, uh, rosslandstudio.com. And, uh, I'm pretty low-tech, so you can give me a call. Or you can contact me through my website. I don't really do any social media, so.

No worries. Yeah, perfect. Well, and we'll make sure there'll be a link to your website in the description, so that'll be there for anyone. And yeah, I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to, to do this with me and chat about landscape architecture and what you do.

Yeah, thank you for inviting me. It was fun to chat with you.