Sustainable Dinnerware Solution with Pallavi Pande of @dtocs

Hello and welcome to this episode of Conscious Design. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, author of the Conscious Design book, and I am excited to be talking today with Pallavi Pandey. She's the founder of Detox. They make sustainable dinnerware made from palm leaves, which is pretty amazing. And I saw you guys are the winner of the 2019 Next Tea Awards. So winning awards. Always great. Welcome to the show.

Thank you for having me, Ian. I am excited to be here today talking to the listeners who give a damn, and I am on the same alignment. So that is what is exciting for this morning.

Amazing. Yeah, so everybody loves a good origin story. So how did you decide to start making dinnerware out of palm leaves? Like, what's your What's the background there?

Thank you for asking that. Again, I was born in India. Growing up in India, I used to eat my food on banana leaves, which even exist today. So whenever we do go back to India, I have 2 daughters now, and whenever we all go as a family, they get to enjoy that piece of our culture, which is eating on banana leaves. And that was a part of my culture, the tradition that I wanted to bring to the Western world. And I questioned myself, how can I do it? How can I bring that every day, starting in my own home, in my own kitchen? And I went to India and I was like, this is actually not possible with banana leaves because they are flimsy. They are just like a leaf and I can't give that to consumer. Why would people just want to get a leaf and pay for it? And I couldn't work with the expensive bamboo because you have to grow it in order to cut it. And it's not truly sustainable because you're actually cutting it when you need it and and it's heavy, it's expensive. So I had to find that sweet spot. So when I went to South India, I found these areca palm farms. The main purpose of these areca palm farms is to produce areca nuts, which is also called betel nut, a betel nut tree or areca tree.

Okay.

And they, they produce areca nuts or betel nuts and they're consumed in India and other countries. Once the nuts are produced, the leaves fall on the ground. And then I became this mompreneur who rescues these fallen leaves and I give them one more use. right before they start composting naturally, because it's a leaf. It takes them 90 days to go back to soil. And I was like, right before that happens, I'm going to make an income with this and I'm going to create an impact. And when I can do both, why not? So that's when I started manufacturing in India. We started collecting these leaves on the ground. It's a laborious process, just the collections and then cleaning of those leaves and then sun drying them. And that's what it gives them the the texture of wood, the woody look, the bamboo-ish look. And that's how we put them under heat compression machines. And just with the heat, we were able to create these dishes like the plates and the bowls, spoons, straws, etc., etc. And there's no coating, no chemicals. We manufacture these and then we sanitize each individual product. It is packed and then it is ready to go to consumer, whether it's in your kitchen, whether it's in your event, whether you're a food service person, caterer, restaurant, whatever the need, if you're looking for a better alternative than the cheap paper or toxic plastic or the expensive bamboo is where people can find me because I'm providing them a better alternative for people and the planet.

That's amazing. And, and you're not the only person who's looked at bamboo and been, uh, not really. It's not— yeah, I would think of it, right, as this really great idea. And it is, there's, there's great purposes for it, but it's also kind of for the food industry. From what I've learned about the process, it's very chemical intensive in order to turn it into the products that we see, which is not really what you want with food as your, as your main thing. So that's a, that's amazing. And I, I'm curious, like you found Found these palm leaves are just, you know, basically waste that you're able to harvest and use. Is there, with that kind of collection, you said it's really labor intensive. Have you been able to streamline some of it? Kind of what's your, what's your journey been on taking, you know, something that's falling on the ground and being able to process it into an actual usable material?

That's a great question you bring up. And again, To say what you had asked is yes, there is so much of these leaves that are actually renewable resources that are just on the ground. So the raw material comes handy. It's because it's there and we have grown 500 times in just last 4 years that now I have diversified my suppliers in Vietnam, in Thailand and other countries. So we are not just using the areca leaves that are found in India, but other countries as well, because the demand has grown. And like you said, the consumer is becoming more aware. And when I created this brand, so again, the product is innovative and there's no IP or there's no patent on it because like you said, if you just go to Amazon and find palm leaf tableware, you'll find a number of vendors. But again, I was very purposeful in starting what I did, which was this product, because it speaks to me. I speak to it, I advocate for it, I preach for it, and I use it. And again, after becoming a parent, I became more aware that we spent so much on expensive groceries, organic food, and we care so much what's on my plate. But I wanted to go one step further and be like, I want, I want people to also understand what's in my plate. What are those chemicals that are leaching into your food, going into your body ultimately? So it's about not just outside, but outside, inside, inside, outside. And hence the word detox for my brand, which means a cleansing journey inside, outside. beyond your bodies to the environment with the sustainable products that do not cause landfill. They're not harmful to the body or the planet. And it's like a cleansing journey with palm leaves because you can do it and they are there. So again, it's, it's been an intensive, laborious process collecting of the raw materials that is on the ground because we end up picking bugs and all kinds of insects along with the leaves. So we have to be very careful when we clean them, when we sun dry them. So it's a very laborious process in the beginning. And but after Once we have the raw material all lined up, it's very easy. It's just an 8-hour shift from our majority women worker that we hire in India. And we were able to produce at least 200,000 plates or bowls or assortment of items in just one month with those 8-hour shifts. So that's a lot of product.

Yeah, that's a good amount of production for not having to do, you know, super long, like 12-hour shifts. Is more, more common.

Yeah, we, we try to limit it to 8 hours because again, we were very intentional in hiring women workers. And I was like, women are the backbones of the society, of the family. So they got to go back home. They got to be with their families. They got to be back to their children on time. So I can totally understand 8 hours is good enough time for them to work and manufacture for us and at the same time be able to give their time with their— in their families.

Yeah.

So a couple of things I want to ask now, but let's start with you've grown 500 times, 500x over the last few years. You talk a little bit about that journey because that's, that's a lot of growth to handle. You've expanded your supply base. How has that journey been?

Oh boy.

For you?

As an entrepreneur, I will say it has been very exciting because everything came to me, um, I'll say at the right time, though I feel I lagged. I'm lagging in my business model. I'm 2 years behind. I lost 2 years because of COVID because we were going through a lot of supply chain issues and we expected—

I can imagine.

Yeah, and we expected where we are today actually 2 years ago. But again, with the whole COVID, we were out of our inventory for a good 9 months. Sometimes it was 6 months at a time. Sometimes we had the product, but our product was sitting in country A, country B for 6 months because the ships were not moving, or they're short of labor for people to empty the containers, fill them up in warehousing. So we went through a lot of shutdowns, which was not planned, but it was a learning experience. The whole 2020, we had minimal sales, and I thought this was the end of my business, and I wasn't prepared to grow 500 times. But then 2021 happened, and we started seeing, uh, people back at events or people doing intimate events, whether it was at their homes. And we started seeing a lot of consumer buying behavior shifts, like from expensive bamboo boards to our products or from large quantities to our smaller sets, which is like the 50 sets, which are the normal average selling products, the 50-count. So we started seeing a lot of growth coming from direct-to-consumer. And that's when I was like, I want to grow my direct-to-consumer. And it was just easier to reach digitally to people's homes.

Oh yeah.

Right? So it was just easier to advocate, and that's what we did. 2021 was all about awareness and advocating. 2022 was when we started seeing, uh, organic reach with our campaigns, whether it was an awareness campaign or a conversion awareness campaign. So we started seeing a lot of buying from people in 2022, and that was a year when we actually had a stable growth. We had a revenue every month because we were able to navigate through the supply chain issues, have our operations strengthened backend. We had narrowed down what products sell for us the most, which one, which ones don't. We were able to diversify our e-commerce and just spread our online marketplace on different platforms. So we were able to achieve a lot and that's how we grew 500 times.

That's amazing. Did you initially start out trying to go more B2B to like Larger caterers or stores, things like that. That was your primary.

Yes.

And that's what you saw. COVID took all those, those guys out.

Yeah. Ideally, we love our B2B accounts because that brings stability, that brings assurance because there is an event no matter what at a, in a structure. So we wanted to give it a structure with our B2B accounts and develop that long-term relationships with people because ultimately, that's what drives us, the people, the demand, the consumer, what they want. And we love feedback. So we design a lot of our stuff listening to feedback. Let's say if somebody will call us and say they need a heart-shaped platter or a plate, so we're going to maybe design that. So again, it was very important for us to listen to the consumer. And I actually felt that change, that shift during COVID when it became more of a direct-to-consumer brand, because again, like I said, people were going for intimate events, a smaller packaging. Right. And people were worried about cross-contamination, about touching and having covered everything and just leaving the product and not having to worry about picking up an expensive bamboo board from a vineyard. So that's when we saw the shift, like direct-to-consumer buying from us a lot, or charcuterie makers, because they all used to use bamboo boards and they're expensive, they're heavy. And at the end, you have to leave the bamboo board with the consumer. And that comes very costly because every bamboo board is $25 versus—

And you have to ship it. It's heavy, right? The shipping costs.

Exactly. So we were able to get that charcuterie niche because a lot of people replaced the bamboo boards with our tableware, which averages $3 per piece. So versus a $30 board, right? So that was pretty affordable and convenient for people to do. So I think convenience is what people were looking for during COVID They were just so tired of being in the kitchen all the time. Worrying about the dishes in the sink. So I think that convenience piece was a big boost for our, our products because again, you can get the piece with paper or plastic. But again, at the same time, is it classy? Does it look nice? Can you really compost it? Can you really not feel guilty about using and throwing?

Hey, it's Ian here. So glad you're enjoying this episode of Conscious Design. If you want the full scoop on Conscious Design, what it is, how we do it, how you can do it, then check out our book. We wrote it so creative entrepreneurs like you can code social and environmental responsibility right into your brand's DNA. You can download the first chapter for free. Link is in the description. Enjoy the rest of the episode. Don't forget to like, subscribe, and share.

Well, especially if you're using a lot of it all of a sudden and you're suddenly like, you know, one plastic plate twice a year is one thing, but if you're doing like you're talking, everybody was like, oh well, everything is single use now because we don't want things touching. Now it becomes like I'm using 20 plates in a week because family of 4, like we're just burning it. And then I was like, well, how much, how much damage am I doing to the environment because of all the paper, plastic, or worse, Styrofoam plates out there?

Yes, I think I'll totally give it to the consumers. It was the consumer who was making themselves aware of how much landfill they're creating. And we didn't care about that because we were busy in our lives earlier. But now that we're spending more time at home, we are more aware of Because we're the ones changing trash bags all the time. We know how much, uh, how many plates we're throwing. And again, you said, you, you brought up a good point. It was like millions said it's just one plate. Imagine, imagine that power if millions, if one, if they say it's only one, one plate or like one straw. But it's that collective awareness that aligns and that brings people together and be like, we just have one planet. We all got to do what we got to do.

Yeah, there's only one and it'll survive with or without us. So we might as well keep it hospitable to us, right?

Right. Yes.

I'd love for you to dive a little bit because you've mentioned this and I've seen it in everything we've talked about and looking through what you do, the intentionality behind it. And you touched on a little bit, but the workforce, you've been thinking about how you have people working for you, the factory, the setup. Can you dive a little bit more into Kind of your thought process and how you've been able to successfully build a mostly women workforce that don't have to work 12 to 18 hours a day to keep the job. Like, that's, you know, when people think of like, especially overseas sweatshoppie type, they're like, oh well, it's 12 to 18. Yeah, sure, it's women working, but they're also like sleeping 3 hours a day because you have to do this. You've managed to build this. Very positive place to work for. So I'd love for you to dive into that a little bit.

I would love to. So growing up, I remember things have changed now, definitely. But I remember growing up how there was so much of social taboo that men are supposed to do this, women are supposed to be home. And I belong to a family where both my parents were working. They were very conventional thinking. And they were like, no, you got to, you just got to do what you enjoy. You want to go out of the house, go work. don't work, whatever you desire. And I think I came from that background that I should be able to choose what I want to do. And I was very— I wanted to give a purpose to my existence and be like making a difference in the life of women because the women were suppressed in India and they were not allowed to take their own decisions. I'm talking about like old, old times. Things have definitely changed now, but that's where I wanted to support the women in India. And I was like, I'm going to give them— I'm going to make them the brand owners. They have equality in pay. in work ethics, in decision-making, whether they wanted to go out of the house and do this or not. And then again, being able to— like I said, they are the backbones of the society. They're the backbones of the families. And when they go out to work, that gives— that really empowers them. And that's what I wanted to do because I belonged to a family where my mom was working. My mom had that going on. Even today, I mean, I've been around women like that. So that was— that was what speaks to me. And I was very intentional in giving women, uh, the jobs and to work. And what we also do is by the end of every year, we do give a part of our proceeds to the women so that their kids can be enrolled in school. So the schooling is not free in India. Starting kindergarten, they have to pay to send your child to school. So we make sure we support these women so that they're actually at peace and they're working for us in a very healthy environment, knowing that their child is taken care of. They're going to school. They'll be back home from school happily. So that was very important to me. And my, my parents spent a lot during that time when I actually studied in India. I went to the best British Catholic convent school in India where nobody was going. I mean, not an average mediocre family, only the rich people used to. But my parents value education a lot, and that's what they rippled in me. And I was like, I value education. I'll do anything for my kids, and I'll make sure these women who are working for me, who are working We are working together in this. We are trying to make the planet a better place. So why not? And it's like $60 can take care of one school year fee for the child. So we can afford that. And it's like one child at a time. My purpose was let's change the world one plate at a time. Let's make these women's lives better one kid at a time. So why not? So that's why I emphasize so much on majority.

Amazing.

Workforce. Thank you. And you can actually go to our Instagram page and the handle is Detox Plates and it's spelled as D-T-O-X CS detox and then plates, P-L-A-T-E-S, one word. And you can actually see the videos of these women workers in our facility where they are happy. I mean, you'll see in the videos they're happy because they're taken care of. And I like to go and visit them myself by the end of every year so that I know if they're happy, how the working environment is, if they have any feedback for us. So I like listening and honing in with the team.

That's amazing. Yeah, it's one of those, you gotta support the whole thing and it's making people enjoy working for you, right? I mean, that's, if you're gonna hire people, they shouldn't hate it. They should enjoy it. And if it's as easy as, well, yeah, $60 and your kid goes to school so that you can even think about working, right? I mean, that's the other thing is like, if you don't, then who's gonna take care of the kids if you require 2 incomes? Like, Or you're trying to, to, to grow your family, take care of, like, you gotta, you gotta have that support. So that's amazing that you guys are, are doing that. You're supporting everyone and, and really allowing women to come out and work and not have that extra stress on top of it, right? That's, that's a huge factor.

So thank you.

That's, it's amazing to have such a great workplace, right?

Like I said, income and impact. So I think that was my purpose. Like, I want to do something for the women from the community I'm from. I was born in India, so why not try to give them back? And again, now, like I said, we've expanded into other countries. Maybe we'll start having an impact in people's life in other places. We don't have to be bound with boundaries. So sky's the limit. You really want to find ways to help people.

Yeah, and that's a perfect segue. You've expanded to other countries, so you have manufacturing in India, but you have suppliers growing, right? Are you limited by the type of palm tree and palm leaf? Is there like, there's good ones and bad ones? Like, don't— like, how is that going? Are you able to expand to other palm leaves? Or is this just like the one magical palm leaf that actually works and You just got to have those only.

Great question, because I get that all the time because people tell me, there are so many palm trees in my backyard in Florida or in California.

Can you come and do it?

Right. So we are restricted with the palm trees we're using because the leaves have to be a certain width and length to work with. Right. So you can't use the palm fronds which are here. So again, that's why we are limited to working with these areca palm farms, which are just areca palm trees, which are found in certain parts of the world like Brazil or Cambodia or Indonesia. Or what I'm hearing so far is like people are supporters who have my back, who watch, they keep sending me pictures of some palm trees and like, is this the tree to work with? Is that the tree?

Will this work?

So that's beautiful because there are people who have my back who are watching. And that's like so rewarding when they send me these palm tree pictures. I'm like, oh, let me research because sometimes I don't even know.

Yeah, there's so many species, right? It's, it's a lot to keep up with all.

Yeah.

Awesome. Well, what is your looking forward now, right? You've grown 500x so far. What, and now you're, you're on this stable growth pattern. Your things are, you've recovered from COVID You haven't like replaced those 2 years yet, but you've at least gotten past where you thought you would be. And what's your, what's your future look like? What are you planning? What are you— what's the next couple of years look like for you guys?

Sure. So we— so this year our plan is to double our revenue from last year, which is grow more than 500x, like double that 500x. That's what the path we are on today. And the only point is, thank you, thank you. And the only motive behind that is because I want to be able to solve the ecological catastrophe that's caused by non-compostable products with so much of greenwashing today and so many products called or so termed compostable. I'm like, why? Just because you qualify for a minimum composting rate, you become compostable versus something that's on top of the tier, like 3 months of composting. How do you beat that? So I just want to be ahead of the game from all of those products. And for people who actually see value in that, whether are you going to put a cornstarch-based so-called compostable plate in your wedding or your event? Of course not. So that's where I am headed, to those people who actually see value in these products and to keep providing this alternative which looks elegant, which provides you the classy look and the convenience, and that is designed for every, every kitchen, every occasion. I just want to be staying ahead of the curve and keep designing more products. And that's why I said we also listen to feedback. So there are a lot of times when our customers have sent us pictures or given us a review saying their pet in the house loves playing with the bowls. After they're done, they would just throw it in the backyard because it's a leaf, it becomes soil, it goes back to soil in 3 months. So their pet in the house would come and play with that leftover plate or bowl and come and chew on them. So that gives me a good idea of my next product. So maybe we're going to design a pet product.

That is going to do some dog toys and chew toys.

Yeah, so yeah, it's all that the consumer gives the feedback, oh, that this is what was happening with their plate afterwards. And this was a great experience for our pet or for the rabbit, or it just composted, became soil. I'm like, great. So that's the motivation. And that's the— we drive it from our consumer. We feed off of from our consumers' feedback and energy. So keep bringing those if you're listening. If you haven't tried us, give us a try. If you've tried us, let us know. I love listening from people and designing what path we're going to take in the next few years.

That's awesome. That's great. I always love it when I talk to somebody who runs a company and they're actually flexible in where their direction is going to go because I feel like if you're too rigid, you'll just miss opportunities like maybe dog toys, right?

Yeah. So, yeah, and COVID taught us good that you shouldn't be planning. I mean, who writes a 5-year plan? We do a 1-year plan. I like structure. I like following that structure and keep hitting goals and, you know, having SMART goals and not like any number out there. So I think that's what COVID actually taught us, to have a structure, to keep following it and keep growing. But if there's something that comes on the way, embrace it, change it, change it fast enough so that you can still thrive, you can still find ways to keep growing. So that is a learning that came because of COVID because I did not write COVID in my business plan at all.

None of us did. None of us were prepared for that. All of Well, before we wrap up, I just want to give you the opportunity to share. Is there anything that you wanted to talk about, mention before we wrap up?

So I will just say I encourage people to— because I believe in transparency and communication, so I encourage people to check out our social media, Instagram, and give us a like, follow, and again, reach out to me. I personally like questions and answering and discussions. And I encourage that. Hopefully we'll get some messages in our inbox after this.

Amazing. And we'll make sure there will be links for everyone listening in the description. We'll put those in there so you can just click if you would like to. For preferred, you know, anybody reaching out, do you have a preference? Is, you know, social media or your website? Is there a better way to reach out, connect with you?

Or thank you for bringing that. Always for small businesses, the website, is like the magical place because that's direct from us.

Correct.

And that's where we have the most control, whether it's sending you a thank you note or sending you our best tier gift. So yes, please do check us out on our website. And if you really are wondering how the dishes would look made from leaves and you can't picturize it or really want to feel it, taste it, microwave it yourself, or eat on it, I would be happy to offer a discount coupon code. And if everybody wants to write this down and maybe you can write it in the show notes later. It's the DETOX10. So D-T-O-X followed by the number 10 is what I want to offer people, and that way they can put this code at checkout on our website, which is detox.com, and they can get free shipping anywhere nationwide, and they will also get 10% off of anything that they order on the website.

Fantastic. And I know you are trying to get into more big businesses too, so larger companies, probably website best for them to reach out directly for that kind of level of—

Yeah, so we currently—

More than 20 plates, definitely.

Our smallest packaging is 25 plates, but we go in pallets of 100. So whatever your need is, for example, if you're a food service catering company or an event planner or a restaurant who wants wholesale pricings and volumes, then the website is again the best way to reach us because we are designing our B2B portal. So we are in the process of moving everything from our WooCommerce Commerce to Shopify, which means we'll have our own B2B portal for our B2B account holders where they can log in and have the wholesale pricings at their convenience whenever they want. And we also sell on amazon.com, on walmart.com, Wayfair, Etsy. So wherever the consumers shop, they're more than welcome to try us. But I always say website is the best place to reach us.

Perfect. Well, thank you so much for joining me. It's been It's been a pleasure talking to you and learning more about your amazing business, especially the backend side of things and the impact you're making. I think it's good for, you know, potential customers and people to see that it's, you know, not just a cool eco product, but the business is actually also good as well and not doing anything bad on that end. So really great hearing about that and really great job to you for building such a great opportunity and Thanks for being on the show.

Thank you for having us. We are honored to share the space with your audience.