The Rise of Smart, Sustainable Tires – What to Expect!

Hello and welcome to the Conscious Design Podcast. I'm your host, Ian Peterman, and I help turn product ideas into sustainable 7-figure businesses. Join me for another episode where sustainability meets innovation and business savvy. Today I'm really excited to have Frida Minosi. She's the brand designer for Retire. Where they're making 100% reusable tires with renewable materials. Welcome to the show.

Thank you. Yeah, it's great to be here.

Absolutely. Well, I'm excited to talk to you. That's a very large step away from the tires we all know.

That is for sure. Yes.

I'm—

how—

this is a big thing. How did this come about? What was the Origin of let's find a new tire.

That's true. That's a good question, especially since nobody really thinks about tires, right? They are just there. No, they're hanging on the vehicle.

You just use them.

Yeah, exactly. We are from Norway. It's a Norwegian company. Headquarters is here, and our founders started at the university—technical engineers, smart people, inventors—and back then it was 2015. Already, so we are not that fresh now anymore. They started with developing cool tires for bicycles mainly. So bicycles was our focus, and it was mainly a niche product for the winter. So to switch tires very fast in a very efficient way, that was the idea, and that was the product we developed before our journey. But during the process, like during the development and thinking about How can we make them better, et cetera? The guys stumbled upon a new technology or new ways of using different machines, different materials, and that idea led to where we are now. So the whole, whole thing is really a complete change of what's standard in the industry. So that means the machines that we use are completely different. The materials we use can be completely different. So it's a complete reinvention of what exists. And our focus is also not just bicycle tires anymore. It's shifting towards all other kinds of non-motorized vehicles. So prams, strollers, all kinds of small tires you have around. It's fascinating how much, how many tires are out there on all kinds of vehicles. And then the plan is to move forward. If you have an e-bike, right, you have the similar power force like on a lightweight motorcycle or something. Things like that. So we move the logic step forward into the motorized industry. And then later, of course, the car industry, which is highly interesting, also in terms of volumes and the impact that tires have in the world, the waste.

Right. Well, I think that's such a good point you made at the beginning of it's something that we just don't think about. Like we really, we really don't. Nobody, and they're disposable, right? They are a consumable product. They always wear down. And like you said too, there's, there's so many, like we don't always think about it, but there's bikes and strollers and scooters and like the list of things with wheels is very long. We just don't, we don't sit there and think about, oh, what's the tire and how does that work? So it's, I love that somebody did. You guys actually were like, hey, there's these tires, we can make them better. Now, as you've been kind of increasing the speed limit of your tires, I'd say you're They're getting in faster and faster vehicles. How has that gone? Is it— how are you— e-bikes? What's your kind of— what's your limit right now in terms of like, what could I put one of your tires on?

The comfortable position we are in right now is that we have already customers from different segments. And there are, for example, bike trailers. So the ones hanging behind, there are like 20-inch, which is a bit smaller, but also all the micromobility segment in 20-inch is relevant. So all the foldable bikes and all these cargo vehicles, there's so much— there are so many interesting new products around. It's fascinating to see. So all those are relevant and interesting for us. All the, of course, children balance bike, kid bike segment is highly interesting. That starts with the balance bikes where you don't have pedals. for example, we have customers in that segment, up to the bigger ones like, for example, Frog Bikes signed with us, who's from the UK. It's one of the big children's bikes producer. And then goes up to the adult bikes, where we also have customers with, without the e-bike segment, but also the e-bike segment. I think there are barely bike brands in the world still out there without thinking about an e-bike model. It's the new standard. Kind of, that's what I see at least. And so that's right now the range. And then we have all the nursery products where you have like all the baby strollers you have, but also the models that are for jogging, for example, right? Where you can run. And there are so many different variations. There are so many different brands as well. Fascinating what's going on there. So the product designers in that industry are really going forward and developing great product for families and so on and so forth. So it's very cool.

Yeah, that's awesome. With your development, right, as you're progressing forward, I guess I'm kind of curious, is the challenge to developing, right, if the angle is like car tires or semi-trucks, bigger tires, is it size?

Kind of what are you having to work on like technology-wise in order to Yeah, it's more a technology question in this case, which I can try to answer, but probably not fully correctly. But just keep it simple. The car tire, if you put them next to each other, right, you stand in front of them, they look completely different. And if you would make a cut through those tires, you would recognize that the car tire is way more complex. It has much more materials involved. It's really different compounds. So it's much more complex, and also the way it is structured, and actually also the way how it's produced. So you cannot really compare them. But yeah, that's why the logic step right now for us, and since we came from the bicycle industry, we knew already a lot of brands in this industry. And actually, the industry already knows us pretty well. So when I last year, for example, was standing at the exposition in Germany, and there were a lot of people coming to us. They were like, what's with the old products? What's happening here? Why you change? And, you know, they were confused, but the people know us. So there are a lot of in the bike industry. And so that was a very logic step to use the connections to improve what we are best in. With our old products, we got test results, best tire test results in Germany in the testing for winter tires, for example, for bicycles. We outcompete all kinds of competitors. Which was impressive even for us, was like, wow, this is like we are really good in this. So we use our competence and go from there. I think that's a very logic step to go. We plan to like scale this process. So right now on the other side, I'm right now in the headquarters, and on the other side is the pilot factory. So that is our factory where we build everything together, where the machines. Are now connected and where we start the mass production very soon. And this setup is like kind of a blueprint. You can see, right, you can— if this works in this way, we already know what, what's best and what to avoid, etc. So setting up these, these factories, this one already is like— it's, what is it now, maybe a year or something? I'm not sure about, but it was so fast for, for factory. It was so fast. To set this up, so the plan is to implement this in different geographical markets. So around the globe, basically, right? You have made in the U.S., made in China, so so different different countries, and where you have this setup because these machines are super effective, so they work together in this new automated way, and you can have this setup in all different kinds of. regions around the world. And that leads to right now, I mean, think about it also in a sustainability way, all the supply chains, right? The transportation of tires right now. In the car tire industry, it's already better, I would say. There is more production in different countries. But in the bicycle industry, for example, it's pretty much solidly, it's just Asia almost only production. But in the car industry, it's more diverse. And also, I must admit that actually the car tire industry is more advanced in terms of new materials, in terms of getting tires more sustainable, thinking about the tread design to avoid friction or other parameters that influence actually the, the gas spend on cars or the electric vehicles with less electric energy use due to tread design, tire design, etc. So that's where the car industry is already, and the bicycle industry is still a bit back-leaning, I would almost say. Like, we are having bicycles, we are green because we use a bike. But that's also a little false situation the bicycle industry is in. So it's a false pursuing because producing bikes of course creates emissions. And yeah, so There is a shift happening right now. Like the bicycle industry is really shifting towards sustainability. It's impressive to see how brands are jumping into topics completely new for them, right? They hire a sustainability manager maybe, and then they have a whole team suddenly organizing all these topics and it's, or they start measuring their product carbon footprint. So how much actually is, what's the emissions of this bicycle? And that's interesting to see and a big movement.

Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that because, yeah, we kind of, we think of if I use a bike instead of a car, I'm automatically super sustainable. And like, we never— most people don't look into the bike itself and go, well, how sustainable is it? What are the materials we're putting into it? Is it as good as we think it is? I feel we kind of— it's just sat there as a— that's correct, as a bike.

That's correct. Yeah. And I mean, it is more sustainable, of course, like, right? It's, it's way less material. And there is— I know my bike, for example, I bought a used one back then. It's still running. There's same tires, I think. So it doesn't need the winter-summer wheel change or any kind of— it doesn't have all the sensors and the new cars do have, right? All the electric stuff in there. It's definitely more sustainable. There is no question about that. Definitely. Yeah.

Absolutely. But I love that it's still, even though it is so sustainable, there's these areas that like you guys are able to look at and go, yeah, but there's actually room. We can make that better. We can improve even something that we think of as really sustainable and it is, there's still room for improvement.

There is room. And especially if you add it up, right? I mean, if you If you calculate just the amount of bicycles out there or the amount of tires, each tire right now in the normal adult bike range has about 5 to 6 kilograms CO2 equivalent. So if you have 2 tires, that's like more than 10 kilograms CO2 equivalent. And then you have suddenly a complete fleet of like 100 bikes, 1,000 bikes, right? And it's adding up. And 5 kilograms CO2 equivalent, that's That's a whole meeting room CO2, basically. And our materials that we are using right now and the ones we are working with and where we have the LCA, they reduce these emissions by about 82%. And that's—

That's big.

Exactly. And that's really a number. And then you have an effect, right? Even though it's a bike, you see the effect. And also the calculation, like if our customers are doing the full calculation, they recognize This is something we can really work on. We can implement. We can use for our overall product calculation. Yeah, and there are so many.

I forget there's a there's a country in Europe. I forget which one that I believe it's there's at least there's one or two bikes per person in the country.

Yeah, the Netherlands definitely is. Yes.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes, I think it was the Netherlands. It was like more bikes than people.

There are more bikes than trees. I mean, if you were ever in Amsterdam or something like that, it's impressive. And also, if you go to Denmark, Copenhagen, the capital, it's such a bike-oriented city. They really restructured the complete city in certain ways. So you see really how the bike lines are, how, how the traffic lights for the bikes are, and all this kind of structure and concept behind how a Bicycle-oriented city could look like, and it's really cool to see, especially when they're all parking in front of the like train station or something like that. It looks like an ocean of you cannot see the the end of the amount of bikes standing there just on the parking. Yeah, and here in Norway also, like here in Norway at the train station, it's called Sykkelhotel. So sykkel is Norwegian for bike. It's the hotel for the bikes, so it has a roof and you can lock them there and they're going in. It's very advanced in terms of that.

Yeah, yeah, that doesn't happen really very much here in the, here in the States. Not as much. There are some cities that are, are a lot more bike-friendly, like Portland, Oregon is pretty bike-friendly. It's happening. It's not as rapidly, but it's— there's those— some metros have done a really good job and So now more people buy bikes and more people will need tires.

Yeah, that's, that's cool to see. It's also just something for yourself, right? I mean, you, if you're not in the most toxic city, but if you're maybe living in a city close to the coast or something and you have a bike ride, right, there's a forest, it's just fantastic. You feel the wind, you smell fresh air. Biking can be really, really nice to get your head free and to do some sport. If you're commuting, you don't need to go to this gym thing or whatever, just take a commute. We have a couple of those here in the office.

Yes, I worked with some people that they rode their bike in every day and that was plenty of workout for them for the day. As far as I'd love to dive in, especially since you work on the brand side, how the journey has been in terms of build the brand positioning, if there's been any kind of hurdles in terms of getting recognized. I know you guys were already known, right? You built a bit of knowledge and reputation already, and then you jumped into this super sustainable side. So I'm curious how that— because that's a unique— they'll oftentimes A lot of newer companies, they jump straight into sustainability, and whereas you all, you kind of did both, getting that expertise.

Yeah, that's right. Especially the expertise that you mentioned, right? Sustainability is something you really have to learn about, like every company working with it. It's a quite fresh field, even though like the climate discussions and all this happened already in the '80s. But Like companies are are really discussing about it right now more and more. There are companies opening that area completely, and for us it was just learning, learning, learning so much also from the from the marketing side, right? What are we able to communicate? What are we allowed to communicate? Where are laws and regulations in place for those kind of things? They use putting actually a lot effort into regulating sustainability, shifting towards these topics. So the newest discussion is about, for example, where they try to narrow down what you're allowed to say in terms of green products, right? The term eco, are you able to use it? Is it a claim that you can do? Or do you really need to prove it and all this kind of topics? That's That's something the EU is discussing right now, and which is great because there is a lot of greenwashing happening all the time since, since this topic is up and running, right? It's really a big thing. And since I'm more working in the marketing side, for us, it was also very important to, to not, right, jump into something and then make bad mistakes and then have the reputation completely crushed because we did some stupid headline about something that is just wrong. So you really need to get your stuff together, right? And that's something we did with the first, world's first carbon-neutral tire, for example, where we researched within the company which materials could be used for that. How can it be optimized? Which parts are the ones with the highest emissions? And so, and that's how we narrowed down and came to the project about the Carbon neutral tire. There is something I never said before, but in terms of the carbon neutral tire, it was a project where we, at the beginning of the project, that was not even the goal. I never said that before, but it was not even the goal to create the first carbon neutral tire for like this bicycle tire in this case, which we have there. That was not the goal. We start with researching materials. We came across materials with a carbon negative footprint. And And those kind of things. And that was leading us to this calculation where I was sitting in front of it and I said like, wow, like we are really hitting the zero here. And then from the marketing perspective, of course, it's like fantastic to catch it up and say like, I mean, if it's zero, it's zero, it's carbon neutral, right? Like, hey, hell yeah, that's great. So that actually was a fantastic discovery. And it is something we learned a lot from because we learned a lot about new suppliers that we didn't know about before. And we learned about how can the calculation be made, how can other materials benefit, or recycled materials can be part of it, and all kinds of things. So there is a lot that we learned that we are going to use and test in the mass production, actually. And that is really the way we work. And this is the way of innovation driving sustainability forward, right? Like we are testing, we are discovering, we are playing. So forward-leaning, very positive. And then suddenly some new doors are opening and that helps us to reinvent on a daily basis. So the machines, for example, that we have right now, we did not invent any of those machines. The machines we are using for the whole production are a setup of machines that already exist before in different industries, not in the bike industry but in other industries, and we are creating a new setup of them. So arrange them in an order that the result is the tire at the end of the day. But in this process of setting up machines, optimizing them, connecting, etc., we discover more and more things. There are New opportunities. Also, we realized this can be made even faster, and this can be done this way. And also, in terms of the speed, I mean, these machines—they are going to produce tires on a minute in a minute, like four per minute. I think was the last calculation we had for a big machine.

That's a lot of tires.

Yes, exactly. And the output is of this machine. There's not since it's automation. There's not so much manual. Manual labor, right? The handwork is not such, such a big thing compared to the conventional tire industry where you still have a lot of, most of the time, a lot of steps, manual steps involved. And since the machines are working quite seamless, you have a really optimized process. And then we talk in the next step, we talk about AI, where robotic and physical AI, the artificial intelligence can help to, for example, in quality control, right? Recognizing a tire that looks great, learning from what is a— what is an error or a bad product and what's great. So that's something, but also optimizing the whole process in terms of getting the best output or the machines kind of communicating with each other.

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So with— I didn't realize there were so many hand steps still in producing a tire. Like, I guess in my head it was all machine doing it already. How does that play into, right, your pricing competitiveness? Where do you sit? Are you able to, because you're less manual labor and things like that, are you able to be an easy competitor price-wise? Or how does that work on your side?

That's a logic follow-up question, right? Like, since we optimize, I mean, See it like that. We are sitting here in Norway, which is one of the highest-priced countries, right? Like, it's quite expensive. And tires are usually produced in Asia. So this is already a statement. Like, we are here, we press the button, and with the automation, we are competitive. And that means we have a product portfolio where we have, depending on the materials we use, because we can exchange materials, pretty fast on the machines. So you can have a material, the most sustainable solution you can find, for example, right? You want to cut the emissions as much as possible. But then you have another one maybe that is focusing on the weight. So it's super lightweight, it outperforms all the weight factors. It's also sustainable since it's reusable. They're all reusable. You can all mold them into another tire again, or Even some other products, right? But you can choose which material you use to achieve a certain performance, for example, and all kinds of things. So, and that the material itself is the price factor in that case. So we're going to have a huge production up and running for mass market where we have a certain size, it's running through, it's a solid level of materials, the price is similar to the market prices. But if you, for example, want to go highly sustainable, then you pay a bit more. But in reward, you, you can become one of the most sustainable bike brands in the world. So there are different factors in there, but it's definitely, as I said, super competitive since we set up those machines. We will have them in different regions, and then you cut the supply chain. So there are brands waiting for tires sometimes, right? We saw that with these Vessel incident in the Suez Canal. I don't know if you remember there was a big shift. Oh yeah, exactly. That was bad. That's a typical sign of how fragile our supply chains are. And another one now with the pandemic. Pandemics showed us how the whole industry works. And actually, the bicycle industry in the pandemic was going bananas because everybody was buying a bike apparently. So it's like there are still warehouses full. Full of bicycles, still a topic. But that shows also how what kind of huge delay exists there, right? In the production, and then suddenly everything is still sitting in the warehouse. I think the future will be like our production. It will be more on demand production, right? There are some orders coming in, and the bike will be done very fast, but not. On stock so much. They will— I think that in the future we will not see this, this huge amounts of stocks of materials, products. So, and that's where we come in and offer tires on demand in the speed as I described, right? So, goddamn it, we need 500 bikes there, push the, push the tires over. And if you are in, in the local area, there is the factory close by because it's a producer from Germany and he needs them there. We have the German factory and we just deliver kind of on-site, right? Like it's there, there is no delay. And that's also what people, why customers sign, right? They see this potential that we have in working fast and reacting to the market needs. Yeah.

Yeah, there's a lot of inefficiency with having inventory. It just, it's expensive. It's really hard to get the right number. You always have too little or too much. There's really no perfect amount that you can really get to. And so this, the just-in-time delivery, that was a big shift, but that just meant there was a warehouse somewhere else. And then just-in-time manufacturing though, that actually cuts it out all the way. So that's, That's great that you guys are able to do that, do that and do it sustainably and have that range too, because it's a great point you mentioned, right? There are performance requirements, right? If you're doing tire for somebody that's what is more like a racing tire for bicycle, your weight starts to— those other factors start to really, really matter and you've got to be able to have an option. So But I love that you're able to blend those together and say, yeah, you can have— which of these factors do you care most about? They'll all be more sustainable than what's out there. But you kind of drag and drop these in and say, oh, I want— I need performance in this case. I need it to be lightweight. But I want it sustainable as much as we can with that requirement.

Hmm. Correct. Yeah.

And so where you guys are at right now, you're at one facility, but you guys are building your first mass production?

Exactly. That's the, the first mass production is now. We have the customers, we have the deals, we have a timeline, and the mass production is planned for, for this year, which what do we have now? November, December, we have 2 months left. The year's ending soon and we are connecting the last pieces of the puzzle right now in the factory. So I'm almost there every day having a look, supporting actually also like where I can in some certain ways. And it's just incredible to see, right? If you can see it, I guess that's why I'm sometimes there just to have a sneak peek, right? To see what's going on and all the engineers and the really smart people connecting all the pieces of the puzzle. And It's just impressive. It's really impressive. It's like, I feel like I'm part of like new step in the industry, really. Like it's, it's something, it feels like watching Steve Jobs in his garage building his first Apple I or II with the mom shipping the boxes out. It's that kind of feeling that I sense of pure power forward leaning agile teamwork. Right? Every day new tasks, every day something changed. Great people, great minds putting together impressive stuff. It's just great to see that. And we are also scaling now. We like next year we are planning a Series A funding for the next steps. So scaling is going to be important for us. Since I'm here, I started 2022, we doubled already the size. in terms of manpower. And we are right now as new head of product development coming in, for example, or just joining us. And that's something that came in a sentence. I think today was like, I was in a meeting and somebody mentioned it, something or a name that I never heard of. And, you know, it's just, it's happening. It's happening. And you have to be good in learning names and faces, right? But yeah, I'm very happy and glad that I bring some experience in terms of scale-ups and those kinds of things with me, where you have suddenly a Zoom meeting with 1,500 people or something. That's something I experienced in the past. So I know how it feels to scale and scale fast. So, but it's necessary, right? We are the ones that reinvent everything and we push into the markets. So if We are not that, who else, right?

Yeah. Well, and you're, it sounds like you guys are really forging ahead really well and getting a lot of good, you have customers already. So you're getting a lot of, a lot of people are jumping on board and supporting with orders. So it's, that's the kind of momentum that really, well, excites the whole team, right? I'm sure that's a lot of Positive feedback for all the engineers and for you and everyone involved to go, yeah, people are actually putting money. They're saying they're putting orders. We have— this isn't just a cool idea. We like— this is something that— this is happening. People are ordering. As soon as the factory's up, we're going to be making product. It's not—

Yeah, it's true. Yeah. I also have to say I have some experience where I made There are startups exist in all different ways. And I must, sometimes you hear some pitch somewhere from people from a new startup. Oh, we have a new computer here or a new phone. It's like, oh, great. Where is it? Can I see it? Uh, yeah, well, our plan is in 5 years. Uh, and then it's, uh, some air, right? Hot air. But, uh, that's actually great to don't have this. feeling of there is something, just a concept of something. It's great to have good concepts, sure, but it's better even to have real products in the hands and see actually how it's happening and that it exists. Our testing facilities, right? We are sending out products for testing and all these kinds of things. So it's very, very much real.

How are you guys expanding? So I know your first production Norway. Are you guys already have like roadmap out of where you want to position your factories in order to maximize? Because I know you were talking about supply chain and it's keeping it really local in a short, short supply chain, really. So kind of what's that strategy and how are you thinking through? Because I know there's a lot, there's a lot, a lot that goes into it.

Yeah, that's true. It's, in this case, we are also following kind of the logic steps and also our customers, I would say. So I cannot disclose right now fully what's going to be the plan, but I can tell that of course, like every continent is definitely a first thing to do. We talked to the US brands for sure. There are great brands in the US. We also are coming to the Sea Otter Festival where a lot of brands are meeting there in the US and Canada actually also. So So it's, that's definitely an industry where we see a huge potential, where the US is shifting, as we talked earlier about sustainability, where people use more bikes actually also, as you said, with some cities changing. So it's a big factor. Of course, Asia is a big thing because in the nursery products, all the strollers and Those products, a lot, the majority of the production is happening in Asia. So having something close to the manufacturing of those is very smart. And also a lot of production happens within Europe, where we have now one facility, as you said, here up in the north, but then going further down makes a lot of sense. There is, for example, bicycle production in Portugal, Spain, a lot happening, but also in the Baltic countries and East Europe. So there's Hungary, there is—

Okay. There's a lot of bike manufacturers kind of all over, really. Yeah. It's a pretty spread out kind of manufacturing.

Yes. It's all around the globe in terms of bicycle assembling, especially. It's all over the world. It's Europe, US, Asia, really. Yeah. And so Being there makes completely sense, and spreading, like as I said, being on each continent in the first place makes a lot of sense. So that's the plan, but I cannot tell in detail which one will be the first. Then it will be probably soon, very soon. The news will be news about that. We are every week there is some some news about about something. Recently, for example, we joined Tule. Tule is the biggest outdoor product producer kind of in the segment where we have these trailers and also these boxes for the cars and this stuff to hang the bikes at and all this kind of products, right? They're from Sweden and they're huge, huge, huge. And we are really glad that Thule decided to use our tires on one of their new trailer model updates. that's coming there. And they presented it recently on a trade show in Germany together with— on their booth, but also we presented our new products. So that was the recent, most recent customer who we are talking about. So that was a great one.

And then positioning-wise, is this something that you are just going to be B2B supplier to other companies? Or is there, if I'm in the US and I want to put your tires on my bike, is there a way to go directly if you don't have anybody local? Is there a way to do that? Or is that kind of, how are you structuring that part?

Good question. And we start with, again, with the logic way of getting volume out there. So means, right, we talk to the industry, original equipment is the thing we do. But we also talk to biggest retail, sports retail brands, right? Like where you have products very fast in the retail where you need like replacements, spare parts. And then it's very crucial to check the aftermarket or be there in the aftermarket and have those options. So it's definitely coming. But it's, uh, our focus is right now to start with original equipment and then aftermarket. It's the logic step, I think.

Right, right. That makes sense. But yeah, I was just thinking of all the people that already have their bike and they have to, they're, they're gonna have to buy a new tire and being able to buy a better tire.

Yeah. I mean, if, uh, I mentioned how fast the machines are up and running, if you recognize that the people are just craving for it, right? And I guess we are the last one stopping the machine at that moment, say like, hey, our 300 bikes are equipped, now we are going home. So I guess the machine will do its best to fulfill every, every order we, we have. Sure. Amazing, amazing.

Well, this is— I really enjoyed talking with you about this. This is amazing to see what you're doing and just learn more about what you guys are doing. Love that you're addressing something that most people just didn't think about. And now, I mean, obviously talking with you, it's very clear it needed to be done. So it's, I'm glad you guys took that on or like, yeah, we'll do, we'll take on bike tires and all the other tires that we don't think about, like everything, scooters and strollers and all those things. And yeah, I really appreciate you taking the time to chat. And for anybody that's interested in connecting with you guys, working with you as a supplier, what's the best place to connect with you guys?

We have, we have on our website, we have in the contact section, we have different options there, like for press, for investors, for business collaboration, whatever. So you can just check the category you need and Feel free to reach out. That's it basically. We have a career page open. Of course I mentioned the scaling. So there are good applicants. As I mentioned right now, it's the— no, head of development was just filled that I cannot mention anymore. Things are moving so fast, right?

That's good. That movement is good. It's good to have that momentum really, and just keep going forward. So amazing. Well, thank you so much. Really appreciate it.

Yeah, absolutely. Great day.

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