E25: How Can We Find Time For Innovation?

How can you make more time for your innovations? Welcome to Invisible Solutions. I'm your host, Steven Shapiro. Each week, we tackle your most complex problems using the lenses from my book, Invisible Solutions. If you need the lenses, go to getthelenses.com with that. Let's get started with today's episode. This week, I am thrilled to have on our episode a friend, a colleague, and a great innovator, Dan Kauss. Now, Dan and I first met in 2007 when he was working on innovation for BP, but we actually share the roots of having worked at Accenture. In addition to bp, he's worked at Campbell Soup. He worked for Otsuka, which is a pharmaceutical company. Worked for Firminish, which is a company on flavors and fragrances. So you can get the sense already that Dan has a wealth of experiences in a lot of different industries when it comes to innovation and problem solving. Well, welcome, Dan.

Thank you for having me, Steven. It's a pleasure to be here.

Yeah, Dan, it's just so great having you here because, you know, you're one of the guys I turn to a lot when it comes to just bouncing some new ideas off of someone, because, first of all, you have a wide range of experiences just given the multiple industries you've worked in. And just your background really just has turned you into a great problem solver. And so, as you know, this is a problem solving show. And so I ask all of my guests to bring a problem that either they want to solve for themselves or they want to solve for their clients. So what's the problem you have for us today, Dan?

Well, Stephen, this is a classic problem that I run into at a number of different clients. And a lot of people want to do innovation. It's important to them. But when push comes to shove and their day job gets in the way of finding time for innovation, that's where a lot of good intentions go to die. So my question that I'd love to tackle today is how can we help clients find time for innovation?

All right, so how can we help clients find time for innovation? Excellent. Good. All right, so let's start with that. And again, we could even, just like right now, just play with that just a little bit, because we're helping people find time. Is it finding time? Is it making time? Because I think even those words are slightly different. So we could get into some. A little bit of semantics here. So, but I'm going to turn it back to you and just, I would love for you to give a little context. And also, what are some of the things you've seen. Before I start giving my perspectives, using the lenses, I would love to hear what are the things you've found that helps your clients find time to make innovation a reality.

Sure. And I think your choice of words is oh so critical here. As you've already alluded to finding time. It's not like people just magically find time in their day, at least most of the people that I work with. So making time, I think is a nice build off of that question. But one of the ways that I've stumbled across this is early days finding way too many innovation activities that basically were nothing more than theater at the end of the day because went through an exercise, came up with a list of great ideas, patted ourselves on the back when we were done with say a brainstorming session and a wall full of post its and then nothing ever happened from that point forward. And you, you know, this has reared its head in a few different ways. So I think this is a critical component of innovation that applies across industries. And you know, whether it's everybody's day job or not, you know, being creative is part of what we are typically tasked with as professionals. So one thing that I found that helps people is to increase, innovate in the day job, so to speak. So it's not something additional. But what problems are you trying to solve? What are you bumping your head into time and time again? And can we look at that as an area to do innovation? So the making time for innovation is really just part of the day job. It's not putting aside the day job, but integrating it into the way that people go about doing their day. That one has been pretty successful in a number of different clients that I've worked with. I believe you have a phrase, innovate, where you differentiate. Well, this is a spin, a twist, if you will, off of that. But that's one thing I've seen that has worked pretty, pretty well.

Yeah, that's great. I love that example. And what I love that you're doing here is you're really, instead of talking about innovation being separate, you're talking about how can we. And so maybe the reframe here is how can we integrate, how can we integrate innovation into our daily work? So that's a different problem statement than really it's sort of an either or, either I'm innovating or I'm doing my job. So I really love that as just a going in reframe. I think that's very powerful. What else have you seen? Let's have a couple more thoughts that you have.

Another challenge I see people bumping into is that they don't know where to go with their next steps. Run a brainstorming session. One of the things that I used to commonly run into until I tweaked my approach to brainstorming sessions, was we have all these great ideas, everybody's excited about it and goes away and nothing happens. I alluded to that earlier. Well, one thing that I did with my innovation sessions was changing how they're run in terms of a typical brainstorming session, let's say. And by the end of this session, we have a prioritized list of ideas, one through three, no more than that people identified to tackle those three ideas and very clear next steps on what to do with those next ideas and a timeframe by which that's to be done. So clearing out any type of ambiguity around what needs to happen, because I feel that a lot of times people are, if it requires thought, thought people are hesitant to proceed because that takes up too much mental energy for them when they have the fires that they're fighting in their day job. So clearing up that ambiguity around what to do with innovation is another common problem that feels related to this that I've had at least one approach that somewhat successfully works with. But I'd be curious to see what, what approach you might take there, Steven.

Yeah, and let me just sort of build on what you're saying there. So what you're really talking about in some respects, for those of you who are listening, who are familiar with the lenses, and if you're not familiar with them, go to getthelenses.com and you can download the 25 lenses. And I think what you were just describing there, Dan, is a really good example of lens number three, which is the reduced lens. And I think what ends up happening is we over complicate things. But I also, you know, you mentioned innovate, where you differentiate. Well, one of my other beliefs is that simplification is often the best innovation. And so we need to apply simplification to innovation itself in order to make it easier, give people clarity. And I think the reason why innovation fails so often in organizations is because it's been a buzzword that people have used without giving them any kind of guidance on how to do it. So I love, you know, both of these reframes that you've been talking about. In this case, maybe how can we simplify or give clarity around the innovation process to make it more efficient for people? Is that A. Does that feel like it's a reasonable reframe of what you were just describing?

I think so, Stephen. And something you just said there, you know, triggered a thought in my mind, which was around this notion of innovation that maybe people are a bit tired of or innovation fatigue. You know, we've, we've tried these innovation exercises in the past, be it a hackathon or, you know, 10% time, and, you know, these efforts and they're not really going anywhere, and people, I think, just become a little bit exhausted by the notion of it because they don't see any results coming out of it. Have you experienced that? And if you. So what, how have you addressed it?

So 100%, absolutely. What you're describing is what I've seen happening. And, you know, I would describe it not as innovation fatigue because I don't think people have fatigue around innovation. I think they have idea fatigue. And it comes back to something that you talked about before, which is we do brainstorming sessions and we develop thousands of ideas of which we implement none of them, or we use some sort of suggestion box and you get a thousand ideas that are suggested and the company does nothing with any of them. So it's idea fatigue that I think is really one of the underlying issues. And the way that we combat that, which is going to be no surprise to anybody who listens to the podcast, is to stop focusing on ideas. My belief is asking for ideas is a bad idea. We don't need more ideas. We don't need more opinions or suggestions. We need better problems, better opportunities, better reframed situations where if we could solve this is going to create the greatest opportunity for the organization. So I think exactly what you're saying, there is fatigue. And the reason why there's fatigue is because the way innovation is done inside of organizations is incredibly inefficient. So I think that's, you know, at least that's what I see all the time, which is why when we reverse engineer, what creates efficiency, basically it is getting targeted on what matters, focusing your energies on problems, potentially differentiating problems, and then working around those. So that's something that I've seen. How does that resonate with you, Dan?

That makes a lot of sense. A lot of sense, Stephen. It makes me think also of perhaps the perspective that people have around innovation is sometimes a bit warped. And I know this varies by culture across the globe. So if you're in the U.S. innovation often takes on connotations of these Big Bang type innovations, where it's bet the company type of importance. Whereas innovation maybe in some European or even Asian markets might be more incremental in nature. And I think the distinction needs to be drawn out around innovation takes many, many different forms. It's not just one or the other.

Absolutely. I mean, Japan, they're very big into, you know, thousands and thousands and thousands of incremental ideas, but all of them get implemented. And so it's a different, but at least you're getting conversion of ideas into value. And it seems like somehow in other places we have quantity, quantity of ideas, but very low quantity of implemented ideas. And so the first step is obviously for anybody listening is to get clear about why you're doing innovation and what your goal is. And this is lens number seven, which is the result lens, which is all around why do we even care? Why are we doing innovation? And so Dan, let me just get your thoughts on that is like, let's apply the result lens right now. Why, why do we care? What, what really matters with innovation?

Yeah. And Steven, I'm sitting here silently laughing because I've had clients come to me and say we need innovation. And without a thought as to the why behind it. What are you trying to solve here? What is the purpose of this innovation exercise? Innovation for the sake of innovation is such a waste of time, of talent and, and of resources. So when I look at innovation, I see it as the lifeblood of a company's long term success. You can tweak around the edges only so much before things change in the marketplace around you, make your business or your product obsolete. So for me, innovation is all around the key to long term survivability. And also, let's just call it thriving of an enterprise, be it a company or a social enterprise, you know, even, even a family enterprise, if you will. So that's what innovation is all about. For me.

I agree 100%. I mean, I would, the one word I use to describe innovation would be relevance. And the reason why we innovate is not to be novel, it's not to be different. None of those matters. Being different for the sake of being different doesn't mean you're going to create value in the market. We, we want to be relevant. We want to create something that people are going to value. Now obviously there's a lot of different ways that we can innovate, whether it's internal processes or external offerings. All of those are certainly great ways to innovate. But at the end of the day, everything we do ultimately should be about creating value in the minds of the market so that we can stay relevant.

Amen to that, Steven. I absolutely think that that is a key point there for anybody who's looking to not just innovate. Sometimes I feel like innovation is a dirty word and that's not what we're about here. It's about that long term relevance, success, viability, if you will, of an organization. I think that is why at the end of the day, all of us need to innovate.

Excellent. So let's sort of pull this all together. Let's use a few of the lenses to actually get specific around some of the problems associated with this problem. And let's just start off with the deconstruct lens, which is number two, which basically says let's break it down into parts or steps or pieces. And so in this case, when we talk about innovation, innovation is really in some respects, even though there's an outcome associated with it, it's a process and the process has steps. And so, and I'm going to turn this back to you only because you're the one who posed the original question when you say let's just make a semi factual statement is people believe they don't have time to innovate. Well, which part of innovation don't they have time to do? Is it the upfront thinking? Is it the developing solutions? Is it the implementation of the solutions? From your experience, where do you see most of the innovation problems occurring?

I find companies in general don't lack for ideas. Many times they are more likely to drown in ideas than they are to die of thirst for ideas. So it's really the, okay, now that we have an idea, what do we do with this idea? That's the part which I think is a great canyon between their desires and the actual execution of innovation.

So let's just get very clear on language here because I think words are very important. I mean, if we're going to talk about reframing, to me there's a big difference between ideas and solutions. And the reason why I want to bring this up is because I rarely suggest my clients focus on ideas at all. So there are no ideas to implement. What I typically suggest that they do is figure out important problems and opportunities, look for solutions, and then implement those solutions. So first of all, I just want to get clear, which context are we looking at? Are we looking at ideas and suggestion boxes from what you're describing, or are we talking about the latter, which is really around solutions? Or maybe you're saying it doesn't matter because it's all about Implementation?

Well, I'd say oftentimes solutions are built up of ideas as building blocks. And that could be a little idea, it could be many little ideas, it could be a big idea. Maybe the language here is a barrier for some, but I would say that in many cases it's that before you even get to a fully baked solution and you have some ideas, what do you do with them there to get them to that solution that could be commercialized?

Excellent, excellent. So I would say based on what you're saying, that one of the reframes might be look, because a lot of people will say the solution to making time for innovation is you use the word hackathon before, but that just generates more ideas in many cases. Now, in some cases, the nice thing with hackathons, if they're done right, they're actually implementing solutions, which is a really great thing because now all of a sudden you have something developed. So I love that from that perspective and I think the key is maybe the reframe is how can we make time to implement innovation? How can we make time to make innovation a reality, bring it to the finish line so it actually creates value and we don't need to get into a long conversation around that. But I think that's an interesting perspective, is which part? And this is a question, you know, for anybody who's listening to think about whatever problem you're doing is which part? This is the leverage lens, which is number one, which part will give you the greatest impact and if I could only fix one part of the process, what would have the greatest impact? So, you know, I think that all fits very nicely with what you were saying before I move on to one last lens, any, anything sort of what I was just saying there does that anything you want to add to it.

Steven, I think that point around leverage is so, so key not just to innovation, honestly, but to the way we go about our daily business in, you know, the corporate world, whether it's startup or a big company or the individual entrepreneur. That leverage component, how do we get 10x for every incremental unit of effort we put in, I think is the key for long term success and for not driving yourself crazy at the end of the day or burning yourself out. So that's, I think a phenomenal point here to raise to your listeners.

Well, and I think a lot of times we're so focused on doing more with less, but my philosophy has always been do less, get more. What can we do that's going to give us the greatest impact if we only had a limited amount of time, which we do well, what would we focus our energies on? And so having that mindset of not all problems, not all ideas, not all solutions are equal, how can we start focusing on what's going to have the greatest impact? And not all steps of the innovation process create value in the same way. So there's all these types of thinking. Again, the point of using this one example is just to demonstrate not necessarily even the solution to this one specific problem, but how can we use these concepts to solve any problem down the line? So, Dan, I'll give you one last lens and then we'll, we'll wrap it up. I'd love to get your closing thoughts. The last lens I want to try, and this one I know, you know, I'm a big fan of, is the reassign lens and the reassigned lens basically questions who does the work? And so often when it comes to innovation, we assume it's, you know, the individual or the team or the department that's going to do the work. As you know, I'm a huge fan of a combination of open innovation and crowdsourcing and tech scouting and anything that sort of turns the model on its head instead of saying, how can we innovate? How can we acquire innovations? And so I'm a big fan of those types of strategies for basically making time for innovation by putting the complexity into the market rather than into the company. So what have you seen with that, Dan?

That's a phenomenal point there, Steven, because I've actually seen companies be able to innovate by leveraging their ecosystem of partners with, whether it is simply tangential partners that they might go to market with in a collaborative sense, or suppliers, vendors, people who provide services and or products to that company, a lot of times putting it out there into the ecosystem that surrounds the company, has paid dividends for some of my clients in numerous different ways.

And I want to just pick up on one thing you said, which is really great, because a lot of times when we start talking about outsourcing, innovation, if you want to call it that, people start thinking about crowdsourcing and asking people for their solutions. But one that you talked about, I've always found to be very powerful, which is supplier programs, partnerships with suppliers and vendors, because first of all, they know what new technologies, what new capabilities they're developing so they can see to, to the future of their pipeline, which then can help you start thinking about what you offer. And by collaborating more tightly with suppliers, or in some cases, investing in suppliers, by making the suppliers better at what they do, they're going to be more efficient and effective at delivering what you need them to do. So I think that's a really just a powerful example and I just wanted to sort of underline that. One point.

One company that I worked with named them Runway Days, creating a longer Runway for their business to take off by partnering and engaging with their suppliers who are seeing things across a landscape, across an entire industry and bringing the best of what that entire industry or other industries have to that particular company. You'd be surprised what suppliers are just begging to share with you given the opportunity. And I've been consistently surprised by that in my days working with clients.

Well, I think that's a great one to sort of wrap the lenses up. What I'd love to do now is just turn it back to you for a minute just to give me your closing thoughts in terms of what would you, if you had one tip, one suggestion for a company that you think would help them be better at innovation? Let's just make it a broad question. What would make them better at innovation, what would it be?

One suggestion. Wow, that's not an easy one there, Steven. But I would say to look at where you are struggling today, start by innovating there in the day to day. Focus on the problems, solve those before you try to boil an ocean and go into some blue sky area, get your feet wet, get some confidence going and then look to that next horizon and see what you can do with that. But if you're just starting your journey, I would recommend go with a problem you know well and seek those different sources of inspiration, different perspectives. Look at things in your words there, Stephen, through different lenses to find the right question to begin the journey of solving that particular challenge.

Wow. I have to say that is an incredible wrap up. What a great way of summarizing all of that. I love it. So Dan, if somebody wants to get in touch with you, what would be the best way for them to reach out to you?

Well, Stephen, the best way to reach me is to use dancous.com d a n k a u s my name dankous.com go there and you'll be redirected to my LinkedIn page where folks have a few different ways of getting a hold of me.

Fantastic, Dan. We'll put that link in the show notes so people have it. Thank you so much for being here today. What an incredible conversation. You always amaze me with your perspectives and thoughts on this topic. So thanks for your time.

Stephen. It was absolutely My pleasure. It's always great to talk to you, and I couldn't be happier to. To do it again someday, perhaps.

Absolutely, Dan. We'll make that happen. And with that, we are at the end of this week's episode. To submit a problem you want solved on the podcast, go to Invisible Solutions podcast.com and remember to download the lenses. Go to get the lenses dot com. I look forward to being with you next week. And until then, happy problem solving.

Sam.