Curiosity Vs Intrusiveness

Welcome. Glad you can join us at the Australian Institute of Insider Threat. And in this video, we'll explore the delicate balance between curiosity and intrusiveness within the workplace. And we're going to examine how a natural interest in understanding roles and responsibilities can sometimes cross into areas of concern. So welcome again, and today we have Peter again. Thank you for coming.

Thank you. Welcome to be and glad to be here.

So the first thing first, what do we mean by curiosity and intrusiveness?

Absolutely. So curiosity is a natural desire, an expression of a natural desire, want to learn and to grow. And that's a really healthy place to be. And it's a great way to actually increase your ability to be effective at what you do. Intrusiveness is kind of. It's defined by boundaries. So there are certain things that you wouldn't do and you wouldn't ask for. And knowing those boundaries, having the emotional intelligence, the gut feel to know that I maybe shouldn't be asking that. And also, intrusiveness could also just be information gathering for the gee whiz, wow factor. Oh, I didn't know that about you. Which is commonly called gossip.

Yeah. Okay. So at what point does curiosity sort of meander cross into intrusiveness? Is there sort of like.

Yeah, there is. There is. And often the intrusive people have mastered the art of appearing to be curious.

Yes.

And use that to bridge over into areas past which they should not go. And therein, I think, is the boundary. By having a boundary over what is in frame or what's out of frame is the differentiator between being curious and being intrusive.

Is there a sort of a pattern or specific traits that others might sort of identify? When someone walks in, let's say it says, okay, here's someone who's curious, but at what point do they say, okay, this could be a risk?

Yeah. When the. When the inquiry, when the inquisitiveness starts broaching over into areas that have absolutely nothing to do with that particular person or that role or the function that this person needs to do when they. When this person starts to insinuate themselves into conversations by just standing there suggestively waiting to be included, that's definitely intrusive. And also asking the wrong people who should not let go of that information past those people's boundaries for information that crosses those boundaries.

So what organization boundaries or culture norms actually create a sort of a curiosity environment? Or how do we learn from it? How do we identify some red flags as well?

Yeah, So I talk a lot about boundaries with the curiosity and the intrusiveness. There is absolutely everything to be said. How great it is to be curious and to be inquisitive about things that sit firmly inside of your. Inside of your job description, inside of your role description. There may be times when you need to go beyond that for I guess you call it operational reasons within what you need to do. Being sensitive that this is now out. Edging the boundaries of what you need to do is the most important thing and framing why you need to have that information. So you might ask somebody, what are our security policies around our office environment, around our office365 environment without saying that, okay, I actually want to do a mail merge, which is part of making yourself. Then by framing it and by suggesting this is how it would make my role helpful, you actually bridge that gap.

Yeah. So are there sort of behavior or patterns that may signal that someone is curious, but by the way that they're asking signals that, well, maybe it doesn't look that curious, but it's maybe coming from a different angle?

Yeah. Most of the time when people are from a curiosity, especially around what it is that will help them to achieve what it is that they're supposed to do, it's fairly obvious why they would be asking that. It's when it's no longer obvious. So why do you need to know that? Why do you need to know, for instance, what happened at the board meeting? Why do you need to know? Those kinds of questions need to be asked when somebody asks outside of that, outside of that boundary role.

So having said that, what are some of the strategies that employers can take to foster positive engagement, foster positive communication?

Absolutely. Absolutely. So if you're working with a peer and your peer comes up to you with seemingly curious question that says, hey, what about this, that and the other, the right answer would be if it's not something that you are prepared to let go or have the information let go is to say you need to talk to this person in charge and they'll be able to give you that information, even though you might be able to answer it perfectly. But you're now starting to bleed the edges of the boundaries and that's the danger point.

So let's take it another step forward. Let's talk about intent.

Yes.

So how does intent come in from a perspective with someone who's curious to compare to someone who's intrusiveness?

Yes. So intent is always. Intent is on both sides. The intent of the curious person inside of their role is to be able to Understand their role better so that they can do their job better. So that intent is a positive intent. Let's take a mediocre kind of a negative intent, and that is to be a gossip seeker. I just want to get the juicy lowdown on what's been happening in the boardroom meeting or party last night. Those sorts of things are pretty much everybody understands that they're red flags now. When it gets hard is when the boundaries are being hard pressed up against is when people are starting to ask questions outside of their zones of responsibility and outside of their zones of security, if you want to call it that as well, too.

Yeah, yeah. So which leads me then, if we have that sort of engagement interaction between employees and employees, how do management leaders, executive, create a great engagement, fostering sort of healthy communications without sort of creating any vulnerabilities.

Understood. Yeah. So one of the things that as a supervisor, as a manager, it's very important to, especially with somebody who's in the. In the curiosity phase, to check in with those people and find out, what have you found? What can you tell me? How does this to what you're doing? You may not frame it in exactly those terms, but this kind of friendly association telegraphs that there's an eye being kept on what's going on there. And if there's a question that needs to happen that is outside of the understood boundaries of this particular person, then the question can be asked. So I need to talk to Jill from it about this, that, and the other. Okay, I'll let Jill answer that or I can answer that one for you. So containing the curiosity to be absolutely fantastic inside of a boundary is how you let that person grow. And sometimes people outgrow their positions so they move on with higher and higher responsibility patterns. But that's further down the track. That's not now.

Yeah. Okay, so taking another step further is. Let's talk about risks or potentially implied risk and the impact from two perspectives. One is the person doesn't know what they're doing and they're being maybe highly curious, maybe just stepping, being intrusive. And so they don't realize that. But what's the impact and risk to the organization? And the second point is when the tent comes in and the person knowingly is doing that and is seeking additional information, whatever, for whatever reason, and the people surrounding him or her realize, okay, what's the risk?

Yeah, oftentimes there's an on ramp to intrusiveness. You kind of intrude a little bit over the fence, but that's okay. And then you intrude a little bit more over the fence, and that's okay. Now the question becomes if you don't back those boundaries back up again, you. You are actually opening the door gradually, inch by inch, for further and further incursion into an area that they don't.

Yeah, yeah, that's a very good point.

Now, that can be just plain I'm being friendly intent.

Yes.

But often those exact mechanisms are used by people to infiltrate their way into an area where they should not be.

Yeah. So what do you think is the organization impact if you look at it sort of over time?

Yep.

And as it increases?

Yes. Generally speaking, if the boundaries are not enforced for one person, they then become loose and fuzzy. Is that a good word for everybody else as well? Too? Oh, well, you know, Jim, he's okay. Jim. Okay. Yeah. Robert is like that as well, too.

Yeah, yeah.

So, you know, they're just doing their thing. And the assumption then becomes that the intent as well, we were talking about before is always going to be benign.

Yeah. A side question that came into my mind is sometimes we, as you know, we have corporate policies which define how the organization is or the people working there expect to behave. Well, let's put this view. Let's say an executive or manager doesn't behave and he's becoming quite intrusively. How does the rest of the team look at that?

That then trickles down. So if Mr. Mr. And Mrs. Manager has the ability to just swan in and demand an incursion of boundaries, then, you know, if we're not. If we're doing it for them, why won't we do that for everybody else?

Yeah.

So whoever has carriage over that particular person. Now, it's a bit impossible if that's the top of the tree, but whoever has carriage over that person would need to be able to step in and say, settle down. This is not happening. Because what will happen is that everybody has published policies and procedures. You walk into a lot of office and say, these are our published policies and procedures. But the question is not that do you have them? The question is how do you work them? In many organizations, policies and procedures are more like international road rules. They're kind of guidelines.

Yes, correct. Correct. How does a person recalibrate their behavior? So if maybe they unknowingly are behaving in some form of intrusiveness? But also the second part is how do they recalibrate if they're knowing being intrusive?

So unknowing intrusiveness, somebody. It means that there is no self awareness. The mirror is not showing them what is really there. That's fine. Somebody needs to stand up and say hey person, it's not on. Very gently. The person that is knowingly doing the intrusion, the recalibration will probably be very, very fine. Because if the intent is to get inside of the other areas, area or areas of responsibility, that's the goal. So by advancing and retreating, advancing and retreating and this is something to watch for. Oh yeah, I'm sorry, I'll back off then. But then a week later they're back at it again. Then there's a different intent behind that most of the time now a lot of people say, ah, they can't help themselves. Yeah, but that's a problem.

Yes. Wrapping this up. What is the takeaway from this discussion?

Yep. So curiosity, which is a. Wanting to know more so that we can, so that the individual can do their role better, more innovatively and the enthusiasm that goes along.

Correct. It's one of the sort of fundamental behaviors.

Absolutely.

Yes.

Is paramount. And that's why I say regular check ins. They could be daily, they could be weekly, probably no longer than weekly. But as you start seeing people becoming more reticent, more clammed, more one word answers, that's when you need to look at what's going on.

Right. Thanks for that, thanks for watching and stay tuned for the next video. Cheers.

Thanks Peter. Pleasure.