Manipulation vs Motivation

Hi. Thank you for joining the Australian Institute of Insiders.

Threat.

As we explore human behaviour, we dive into the shades of grey that exists in the decisions and actions people take. It's not always easy to distinguish between right and wrong, as many choices fall in the ambiguous space between moral clarity and ethical uncertainty. Through this series, we'll examine how context, intent and perception play crucial roles in shaping our understanding of what is acceptable or questionable, helping us better navigate the complexities of human behaviour and the fine line that often separates positive actions from potential missteps or even harm. Hi, my name is Baz Fischer and to my side I have Peter Natra.

Hi.

We kick off the series by examining the dual aspects of human behavior, specifically the distinction between manipulation and motivation. In this video we'll explore the intriguing dynamics between manipulation and motivation, two powerful forces that can influence human behaviour in very different ways. We'll uncover the psychological drives behind both, help you understand when influence is positive and when it crosses the line into something more deceptive. Peter and welcome back. I'm really looking forward to this series. So let's dive in.

Absolutely.

What do we mean by the definition of motivation and manipulation? What are the differences between the two?

So most of the time when you are being manipulated, it's self serving on the person who's doing manipulation. They want an outcome, they are wheedling you, cajoling you into a particular outcome, that's what they want. And most of the time they're pretty deceitful about it because they don't engage you. Whereas basically the other side of that is that you actually empower people by being able to say, hey listen, this is the thing that we want to approach and how we want to handle it. Now one of the ways that we can do it, not the way, but one of the ways we can do it is X, Y and Z. How do you see about that? So you get this collaborative effect going on and we're all looking at the same outcome.

Yes.

And engaging together.

So the side question to that is who's it serving? So for my manipulator is very different. Yes. I'll get you explained.

Yeah, look from a manipulator perspective, their way or the Highway 1, it's full stop like that they have an outcome, that's how they see it and they may have all intentions that this is the way that it's done, but it does not sit well with a person that needs to take that action and move that forward.

Yeah, so it sounds like bit like a win lose. So the person who's manipulating is winning, but the person.

Correct. And people feel that.

Yes.

And yeah, look, over time it encrusts the relationship.

Yeah. What about the person that's being manipulated because they're losing, but from motivation it's more of a win win.

Correct. With a motivation, you get a higher level of engaged energy. With manipulation, you get a very low level of engaged energy. So your output is going to be different from that perspective. It's like if somebody really goes, yeah, I think I can do that. And then moves forward towards doing that as opposed to got to do this. So energies are completely different.

Yeah. What are the sort of common tactics used by someone who's doing the manipulation?

Many times when people do manipulation, they basically lay out what the program is. They basically say, so we need to do this, we need to do this. What they do little of is get input and feedback as part of the process. So it's more of a laying down the line and saying this is how it's going to be. And you can be very nice about saying, it's my way or the highway.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

But there is always that element of I've got a hidden agenda going on here. You need to do this. I'm not telling you why. And it always serves the manipulator.

Oh, okay. Well, you said it's either, you know, my way or the highway, correct? Yeah. Okay. Other sort of set of traits or behavior or profile that. That suits a manipulator.

Yeah, look, they're the ones who are. They have a very clear and domineering way of doing things. And most of the time they are manipulating you to do something out of their own agenda or perhaps that's how they would do it. And they cannot envisage an environment where somebody else can do it with the same result or potentially a better result than that way that they're doing it, which kind of doesn't sit well with many people. Especially if you've got a lot of clever, engaged, creative people sitting with you, you kind of lose that edge that you've got with those people.

Okay, what ways or in what ways can someone who's being. Or sorry, let me study. In what ways can someone who's motivational or thinks that they're motivating someone be construct as being a manipulator without looking.

The manipulation starts when there's no feedback. And you can also get. You also get feedback from manipulators where you get questions like, do you understand?

Yes. Right.

That's a really hard question. Whereas if you get somebody who engages. How do you feel about that? How do you see that working? Do you have any input on that? These are two different kinds of questions, one of which is like, boom, this is the way it is. The other one is like, okay, this is how I see it. Can you tell me what you can bring to the table and move forward with it?

How does emotional intelligence and empathy play? Sort of distinguishing between manipulation and motivation?

So on the receiving end, there's a high rate up. Most people know when they've been played.

Yeah.

And that's one way of describing it. With the person that's trying to project what needs to be done going forward, let's say a manager or so forth, there needs to be a high level of awareness of what the emotional impact is going to be. Now you're looking at the way that people look at you, whether they maintain eye contact or whether they look down or whether they're floating around the room, whether they have that glazed expression, whether they're fidgeting. I mean, these just small one of a myriad of different kind of indicators. If you find that those sorts of things are going on, you can always ask the question, say, so let me see what you think about that.

Yes.

That turns it from I'm telling you what to do.

Correct.

To how do you see what I'm talking about?

Make it more inclusive.

Yeah. And actually that's a really good strategy if you find that you're, especially with people that you're engaging with for the first time that you don't know, ask people, how do you. Can you tell me back what I'm, what you think I'm telling you?

Yeah. And it's so important because first of all, you wanted to make sure that they actually understand what you just uttered them. Yeah, yeah.

You'd be surprised how sometimes the translation comes out. Did I say that?

Yes. Yeah. What is the sort of the cost, or should I say the impact to an organization when you have someone who's sort of being quite manipulative organization, look.

You will get short term compliance, you will get short term effectiveness. And that only encourages the person who's being manipulative to say, well, see, it worked in the long run. It becomes very, very toxic in the environment. People become jaded, people will act out in odd ways. You know, I'm going to steal your stapler and I'm not going to tell.

You because you deserve it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because I look at, from a, from a perspective where it can be tolerated up to a certain amount.

Yes.

Whereby Then yes.

Yes. Until you get to the point where, and this is a classic line, they don't pay me enough for this.

Ah, yes, Correct. Yes. Yeah. How do individuals recognize that there may be being manipulated? Is it easy to see? Is it easy to feel that, oh, my boss or colleague is manipulating me?

Yeah. It comes down to how your experience is with that person. So most of the time, if somebody's being manipulated, the first couple of times, they will think they're being coached into something, but they walk away and they've got this feeling, did I just get done? And as they get more and more involved, they'll start becoming very sensitive to the signals that come out. So, yeah, people fool me once.

Exactly. Is there a sort of market difference for the organization in the long term when you're comparing manipulation versus motivation?

Yep, yep. So toxicity and positivity flow down. They just trickle down. So if your higher level has an engaging, positive way of interacting with the people below them, those people that have the same attitude towards the people that are working to them, then you have a positive effect throughout the organization and the likewise, you know, the same is true of toxicity. This is the way we do it.

Okay, so correct. This is the way we do it. Yeah. Very much like what you mentioned before. It trickles down.

Yeah, it does.

Great. Can someone with good intentions unintentionally become a manipulator not knowing it?

Not knowing it? Absolutely. It depends on what's at stake and it also depends on the relationship. So, for instance, in a family situation, let's say you're a parent and you're wanting to change a particular type of behavior, you can become very manipulative out of the best of intentions. Don't go to this party, don't do that, blah, blah, blah, whatever it is. But you cannot translate that into an environment, an organization, where mutual respect is required and expected. So you need to gauge that between requirement and expectations. If you start becoming parental authoritarian inside of an environment where you would presume would be mutual respect, that's when you cross the line.

Yeah. Okay. Is there any circumstances where manipulation could be fine?

The one thing that springs to mind.

Justified.

Sorry. No, no, no. The one thing that springs to mind is the difference between an organization where you have individuals coming to that organization that you engage for their talent, their creativity, all that, as opposed to somebody who's going into boot camp. So the idea behind boot camp is you basically reset the computer and build it up from scratch. So in that instance, yes, there is manipulation. There's a very good reason for that manipulation. But still, if you think about it, everybody has agreed to that system.

Correct? Correct, correct, correct. But could we also transform that sort of boot camp to a typical organization where you come in, they've been given the terms and conditions or what we expect from you? And that's also some form of, if you want to call it, manipulation, because this is what we expect you to do.

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And within that kind of. Well, it's not manipulation, it's setting the boundaries. I think boundary setting is as respectful as any other human interaction can be. This is the way we operate here. This is the way that this works. These are the things that we do. These are the things that are expected, and everybody agrees to that. If you don't agree to that, don't say.

Good point. So as a final question, and I just sort of outlined what are the key takeaway, but more from a perspective of understanding that there's a shade of gray between motivation and manipulation. So what are your thoughts about that?

Sometimes you need an imperative. Sometimes you just need to get out there and move. You need to do this now. But even there, it's a very clear context. You know, the account's just about ready to drop us. You need to get out there, you need to fix it. Yeah, okay. Is that manipulation? It's not coaching, but it's like this is what needs to be done. Yes. However, in that sense.