Business News Forecast (The News Conference: Real & Powerful 2023)

FMC Fast Chat takes you inside the news so you can be in the know in 30 minutes. Hosted by Fair Media Council CEO and Executive Director Jaci Clement, Fast Chat features notables in news, media, and business.

This is the 2023 Business and Economic News Forecast for Long Island, New York, and beyond. I'm Jaci Clement, CEO and Executive Director of the Fair Media Council, and this discussion was part of FMC's annual event, The News Conference: Real and Powerful. The news professionals taking part in this discussion are Joe Dowd, editor and associate publisher at Long Island Business News and editor at the Journal Record in Oklahoma City. Also taking part, Margaret Corvini, assistant managing editor for business at Newsday. And Ruth Simon, senior special writer at The Wall Street Journal covering small business and entrepreneurship. This fast-paced session is moderated by Catherine Heaviside, president of Epic Five Public Relations and a longtime member of the Fair Media Council. So please take a listen as Catherine begins the program.

Thank you, Jaci, and good morning. You know, I have— I've been very tied to business on Long Island for many, many years, and I'm particularly excited to be here because I have 3 people who are particularly knowledgeable and have had the opportunity to observe large to small businesses on Long Island, on Long Island, and actually beyond its borders. So I'm really proud to introduce— first of all, let me introduce Ruth Simon. She's a New York-based reporter for the Wall Street Journal where she covers small business and entrepreneurship. Considering that Long Island is made up of small business and entrepreneurs, this is particularly important. Previously, she covered consumer lending, mortgages, housing for the Wall Street Journal's personal journal money and investing sections. So welcome, Ruth. We're really glad to have you here. And then there's Margaret Corvini, who is assisting managing editor for Business at Newsday, and she supervises a team of 7 reporters. She's worked on the business staff for 11 years, and before that was editor of the features department. She also has a broader perspective because she had been the reporter and editor at the Akron Beacon Journal, New Orleans Times-Picayune, and Macon Telegraph, Tampa, South Carolina. Margaret, you've really been all over the place.

Okay. Moved around a lot.

Yeah, you have moved around, of course. And then my dear friend Joe Dowd, who's editor and publisher of the Long Island Business News. And he's also editor of the Journal Record of Oklahoma City. So he's right now straddling a couple of states. And he has 30 years' experience in reporting and managing local news. Just to set this up for everyone, what I'm going to do is I'm going to ask a general question to start it off. And then some specific questions to each of you. As the panelists, please feel free to jump in and talk among yourselves. My role is really to make you look good and to help facilitate getting the news out to the people watching. So then we're going to ask if there are any questions, and we'll use the chat function if there are any questions from people who are watching, which Jaci you will maintain. And then we will also— I'll just ask you for a final wrap-up statement based on everything that we've said today. So the question I'd like to ask everyone, and I'll start with you, Margaret. First of all, what do you expect will be the biggest news story that you will be covering this year from a business standpoint?

Well, I think clearly for us on Long Island, particularly, that story is about affordability and cost of living. That's consistently been a big story, but particularly with the inflation that we've all seen in the past year, that's, you know, that's even of heightened interest to our readers. So I think that that is clearly A big, big focus of ours. A lot of stories that we do touch on that in one way or another. Housing on Long Island is a key piece of affording life on Long Island, and we'll certainly be focused on that aspect of it. We've seen home prices jump up. Now they're moderating, but in the meantime, we've seen interest rates double for mortgages. So there's that big piece. The rental market is also a big affordability issue here. There's a lack of apartments and particularly affordable apartments. So I think that a big part of Newsday's mission is, to some extent, helping our readers cope with that cost of living, explaining the whys and wherefores of it, and also hopefully offering them some tips on maybe how to make it on Long Island a little bit easier.

Okay, thank you. All right, same question for you, Joe. What do you think will be the biggest news story you'll be covering this year?

Thank you, Katherine, for having me, and thank you, Jaci, and the Fair Media Council. I think the biggest story— well, I would completely agree with Margaret that affordability is not affordable here on Long Island. It's not for normal people, for even people of means. It's outrageously high. But I don't think that's the biggest story. I actually think that what business will be focused on in the coming year is the lack of workers and the inability for people to get any kind of qualified workers across markets, across job platforms, and across— maybe across the nation. I think because there aren't enough workers. I think we are in a post-pandemic era that people will write about 20 years and 30 years from now that has changed the American worker. And I think they've changed them for the— for for permanent, maybe for, maybe for good. There's a different attitude out there. And I think all of us need to embrace the idea that workers aren't what they used to be. Now, yeah, and Long Island businesses, I think that's one of the stories we're covering. But I need to also stress that real estate is huge here. Still, what's going on in the real estate market is Really interesting stuff. As Margaret pointed out, real estate prices have moderated. Sales have started to cool in December. And I think we're going to see some volatility in that in the coming year.

Okay, thank you. Now, Ruth, you did cover recently, cover staffing. So maybe you can tell us what you see as the biggest story in the coming year.

So I take a little different perspective in that I'm focused nationally rather than just on one part of the country. And I think the economy is the big question we're going to be looking at. The labor market is part of that. But there's a question of to what degree is the economy cooling? We've been keeping an eye on layoffs by some of the larger companies. From my perspective, covering small business, there's a question of will that create some opportunities? for small businesses to hire? Will they also have to take a close look at their own staffing? And more broadly, you know, how are they going to be able to navigate these economic crosscurrents? I think one of the things that was particularly notable during the pandemic was, you know, there were many people who expected a lot of small businesses to fail, and because of government support and stick-to-itiveness and resilience and all sorts of other things. We had, you know, far— we had many businesses that struggled, but, you know, not those kinds of failures. But there is this one challenge after another for small businesses. So that's broadly what we'll be looking at.

Okay. I mean, I'd have to say that the Does the— since the 3 of you actually do have a foot in many different parts of the country, do you feel that— how does Long Island differ? Maybe this time, Joe, maybe you could.

Sure. I think that Long Island's different in some ways because we're tied to New York State. And as New York City goes, usually if there's a recession in the rest of the country, it hits the rest of the country harder than it does in New York. And in that case, we're just a Long Island Railroad ride away from that city. It's going to impact everything we do out here from real estate to our prices. I think that the rest of the country might have a different reaction to whatever slowdown we are anticipating. I know that a lot of companies are anticipating something of a recession. They say they are, and they are holding back on hiring, they're holding back on expenses. I'm not so sure we're going to have that coming this year, not in the metro area. And I think that's one big difference. Historically, Long Island does not fare as badly as the rest of the country because its economy is unbelievably diverse. And there are certain elements to our economy here that are, you know, forever. They're not gonna, not gonna change. Real estate's always gonna be valuable on Long Island. Real estate.

Right.

I would just jump in, Joe. I think that's all correct. And I think here, you know, there's concern about recession. We're hearing from some of the local economists that we talked to that just as Joe said, that will be muted here, if anything, that Long Island is in better position to ride that out. And I think one of the things, one of the reasons is also kind of a long-term problem for Long Island, which is that our population is aging. And so we don't have a job market full of young workers. Young workers can't afford to live here a lot of the time. And so we have a very tight employment market. And I think that's, that's going to play in that we may not see high levels of unemployment, even if that number goes up around the country. The increase here in unemployment may be a little bit less just because we have a kind of long-term issue with our employment force.

Hey, Ruth, do you have any?

I would defer to the Long Island experts actually on this one.

Yeah, interestingly, I just had a conversation with an agency, another agency owner who said that when the pandemic hit, he had a digital agency. He said his workforce scattered around the country, but they're still employed by Long Island.

Right.

So it's, you know, it's becoming very hard to evaluate how we are affected. So—

One of the tensions there is there are lots of companies who would like to bring their workers back, and there are lots of workers who are not so eager to come back, or they're not eager to come back 5 days a week. And those, you know, some of those people may be people who were commuting into the city from Long Island. There may also be people who were living in Long Island who decamped elsewhere. And I don't think we know yet how this is all going to get resolved. And I think the other thing I'd say about the job market is, even though the job market has cooled somewhat, there are, there are a lot of businesses that have been looking for a long time for workers. So it's not clear yet to what degree a cooling job market will actually bring more unemployment in a meaningful way, or it will just make it easier for some companies to fill spots that they haven't been able to.

Good point. Very good point. Now, on Long Island, we do have a diverse business model. I mean, we have universities that employ tens of thousands of people. We have, again, hospitals, also not-for-profits. The not-for-profit area has grown. Some not-for-profits have, you know, have really grown by acquisition of other not-for-profits, and they're acting more like businesses.

Mm-hmm.

They are, in fact, add a lot to our employment, and particularly, you know, our— some of our colleges traditionally graduate social workers and nurses, and they are now being employed by the not-for-profits. So it's a very compatible mix. Now, the question in all this is, do you cover not-for-profits as businesses in your Margaret?

That's an interesting question. I would say generally, yes, you know, we would cover not-for-profits in terms of their fundraising methods. We certainly cover the very important work that they do across the island. For me as a business editor, they fall into a little bit of a gray area. Sometimes Not-for-profits are covered by our Long Island desk, our news desk, as opposed to my business reporters. So we do draw a little bit of a line there between, you know, for-profit businesses and nonprofits. And our major health systems in general are not-for-profits, and we certainly cover them as businesses. They are multi-billion-dollar, you know, Northwell Health, our Biggest— I think they're the biggest employer in the state. We certainly cover them as a business. And so a lot of those healthcare system models are also not-for-profit, and they're huge employers.

Okay, but we— most of our not-for-profits are much smaller than that.

Right, smaller.

But they are still operating like businesses.

Right, right. And some of those that, for example, serve people with disabilities are big employers as well. Then, then of course, Catherine, you've got, you know, smaller arts nonprofits and a whole host of smaller ones. Those we would tend to not cover so much in our business section, those smaller groups that would tend to be covered elsewhere in our paper.

Ruth, do you cover—

So I would say the paper itself Like, depending on what the beat is, you know, certainly the reporters, the health reporters are looking at the nonprofit health chains. You know, we have reporters that cover higher education. In my own work as a small business reporter, I'm really focused on for-profit businesses, in part because the landscape of Businesses for me to cover is so vast and so, so wide that, that we're really thinking about, you know, people who are at least operating businesses, whether it's for their own income or whether they have a bunch of employees.

Okay, great.

Joe?

I think nonprofits are going to face some of the economic hardships that we're all going to face. And I think in that sense we cover it and we'll be covering it in the coming year. Margaret draws a great distinction and says it's a gray area, and that's what it is. It's a gray area. Depends on what's going on. Northwell Health is the biggest employer on Long Island and in the state. It's a nonprofit, sort of, you know.

Yeah, sort of, right.

So I go, it's a gray area, you know.

Okay.

All right. You know, I think Long Island has some unique challenges compared to doing business in other cities or other states, in that virtually the word— the name says it all. It's a long island. I mean, I know that I sometimes, before Zoom, would have a meeting in the morning in Long Beach and then in the afternoon out in Riverhead. And I want to thank— the only thing I can be appreciative of the pandemic is that I haven't worn out my latest car, you know. So do we have some unique challenges in the way we are configured and some— what are some other? unique challenges?

Well, I, I could jump in, Joe. I'm sure you have lots to say about this too. But, you know, certainly taxes here are a key challenge facing both individuals and businesses. We have a long island with lots of small government fiefdoms on it. So we have, I don't know the exact number, over 100 school districts, for example. So a lot of factors that, that play into high taxes. I think a lot of business owners, small and large, would tell you that local regulations are a hindrance to them sometimes. We hear from national retailers about the struggles they may have to locate here because of NIMBYism. People don't want, for example, drive-through anywhere near their neighborhood, or a zoning board of appeals won't grant what they need to build what they want to build. Projects can take a very long time here, so it can lead to delays. So I think that our— those are the things I would cite that I think for businesses particularly, our government structure and the layer of taxes that come with the territory mean that the cost of doing business here is high, and the frustrations of doing business here can be high.

Yeah, I see you nodding, Joe.

Anything? Frustration is a good way to put it. Yeah, really do. You know, it shouldn't take 30 years to get a housing project. You know, it just shouldn't. And the fact that the local fiefdoms are allowed to do this and get away with it— I see opportunity in the town of Oyster Bay, which is this wonderful place from Long Island Sound to Jones Beach. I mean, it's awesome. It is a great— I was raised here. I went away for upstate and elsewhere for a long time and came back. What I came back to was a place that was so unrecognizable because of all of these layers of institutional nonsense and fiefdoms. That's a good way to put it. Little kingdoms where there were— everybody had decided It's all mine now, and no one else could come in. And when I look at it, I say, this is a place that my kids— I really would like my kids to come here and live there like I did. And they don't want any part of it. No part of it at all. And you know how sad that is to me? That this, this wonderful place that nurtured me and my friends and people who I love is no more in a lot of ways. It is no longer affordable to a My dad, who was a New York City firefighter, okay, could buy a house in Plainview and afford it. And he was, you know, sure, it was tough. He worked second jobs sometimes, but they made it. That's not happening anymore in that neighborhood and a lot of other ones. And I feel as if that challenge may not be— we may not be able to overcome that challenge without systemic change in the way our governments approach The way we need to build and grow Long Island, not only in its economy, but also in its people. I think that a diverse workforce that will embrace a lot of the change that needs to happen on Long Island has to happen and will happen eventually. Eventually, there's no choice. That's the way it needs to go, I think.

Okay, I know, Bruce, you have a broader national view on this, but Can you— is this replicated in other places?

I think you do see this in other cities, in, you know, and in urban areas to different degrees. I know sometimes in our reporting we'll look very narrowly to tell a bigger story because often these kinds of forces, you know, issues like affordability, having a diverse workforce, I think they play out in many parts of the country in different ways. The governing structure and who's going to give you approvals are different. But I've heard, you know, many small businesses talk about costs or taxes or regulations, though they look a little different everywhere.

You know, it's interesting because representing CVS, for their real estate division. I sat on Long Island at town board meetings and planning board meetings and community groups, and they sent me around the country. And I remember sitting one Tuesday night in an Ohio town board meeting and hearing— and you could have interchanged Everybody from Long Island. I thought I would— I mean, I was hearing the same things. We don't want to make this like Cleveland. We don't want to, you know, we don't feel that this is what we're all about. We're different. And if I hear that one phrase at every community meeting, I heard over and over again in my life is, we're different, we're not like, and then fill in the blanks.

Well, I mean, it used to be the phrase for Long Island was, we don't want to look like Queens.

Yes.

To which I have literally responded in public meetings and said, I'm from Queens. I moved here to Nassau County. What's wrong with Queens? And of course it's code for racism. Exactly what it is.

I think it was also— I mean, to be fair, I think it also was a code for we don't want apartment houses.

Okay.

And I don't think that's particularly racist, but I think it has to do with congestion.

But let me, let me just counter that argument, Catherine.

You don't have to counter it to me.

What I feel is that congestion— the idea when we Change— exchange for congestion is economic growth, is the ability to have a diverse workforce, the ability to have affordable housing. Because if in fact we had apartment complexes, some of these houses would not be so unapproachably high in their costs.

Well, I think— okay, I've been, I've been operating on Long Island for over 40 years now in business.

Mm-hmm.

And I can say that we are getting the apartments. We are getting apartments over retail, which was unheard of. You know, unless you were absolutely poverty-stricken, you would not be in an apartment over retail. Now they're renting for $4,000 to $5,000 a month. So, you know, it's— A different story.

Anyway, um, the other thing I would say is just like in my coverage, one of the things that I'm always looking for is geographic diversity. So it's not— there are certain stories that I'll do where I'm looking at one business in one particular place because that business can help us illustrate a broader issue. Like, do I need to—

yeah.

wages to get better, a better, more workers and a better quality of worker? How am I dealing with inflation? But you see time and again that, you know, the business in Maine and the business in Sacramento or Austin, like, they are grappling in different ways with these same issues, whether it's higher costs, whether it was supply chain issues. Whether, you know, you talked about commuting, whether when gas prices were really high, how am I going to deal with the fact that it's costing my workers a lot more to get where they're going? That could be a Long Island issue. That could be a Texas issue, you know.

Yeah.

So like, we all feel very special, but we have many of the same challenges. And so do the businesses, you know, that are trying to navigate in this environment. Okay.

The— is— has the possibility of a recession been increased by the coverage in the media, or is that a separate—

Margaret? Yeah.

Are you asking if we're—

Responsible for the recession? Yes, I am.

Okay.

Okay.

It must be all our fault. But do you think that the media can create pessimism that then plays out in the real world and will bring the economy down? I guess I don't— you know, we write— and one thing I'll just mention, obviously, we, the 3 of us, represent very different media outlets and we all approach news differently because our audiences are a little bit different. But for Newsday, since we're aimed at the general population of Long Island, you know, we're writing about news and issues that matter to Long Islanders. We're not particularly writing for businesses. But I think that I would say our readership, whether business owners or average workers, I, I would hope that they are avidly reading or watching Newsday, whether in print or digital or wherever they're accessing our content. But I don't think that they are necessarily basing their business or personal finance decisions on what— on so much on what we're writing that we would have an impact. I think particularly Business owners, and Ruth probably has more insight on this, but I think business owners who are doing things like making hiring decisions are, I would hope, you know, looking at a lot of data beyond media reports. They're knowing what's happening in their industry. They're seeing what's happening with pay rates they need to hit to hire folks. I don't think that I guess personally, I would not give the media in terms of media at Newsday's level quite that much credit to be impacting a big economic outcome like that. I don't disagree with you that mood matters. I think mood for consumers can matter. But I think when we tell people inflation is high, their pocketbook is still just as tight. before or after that. I don't know that they're going to stop purchasing because we've told them, you know, that things are expensive and they should watch it. So I guess that's my, that's my personal take on that.

I think we try to be very thoughtful in terms of how we're looking at these things, you know, and particularly we are watching layoff announcements, but we're trying to understand Mm-hmm. What those mean. Are these companies that got ahead of their skis or, you know, thought the pandemic was gonna change things forever? You know, I think our approach is very much to give our readers the facts and trust them to make their, their own decisions. And when I'm, you know, looking at the economy, I am trying to talk to small business owners who are my people on the ground about what are they seeing and is it easier for them to hire workers? Is it still very hard? Do they see a weakness in demand or is it, is it very, very strong?

Okay, thank you. I love the phrase get ahead of their skis.

Yeah.

Joe, do you have anything to add there?

I've been ahead of my skis many times. No, I think, I think that pretty much covers it. I, I think people— I don't think after 40 years in this business, I don't think I know what they are, what they're influenced by that we write and what they don't. So I'm not so sure we are reflective of the news or drive the agenda or just reflect the agenda. I'm not sure, and I've been at it for 40 years, so I'm not sure.

Okay.

They, um, do you see, uh, you know, I, I, we certainly, I know today is the State of the State, probably, uh, coming on in an hour or so. Uh, do you see any changes in the state that will affect our businesses?

Joe, are you—

Sure, I'll look. I'll take it in the silence. I can't, I can't, I need to, you know, to fill the void, I guess. I think our new governor is sharp. I think she is the kind of person who is more than just what we have had in the past. Okay, I think that she's concerned about the state. She is concerned about upstate's economy. She is from the Buffalo area. She has been around, and she's not tainted by some of the political and social scandals that we have faced on the previous administrations. Having said that, in terms of specifics on the economy, I'm— I was not anticipating anything bigger than the usual lip service to keeping costs under control. And but some of the initiatives that she comes forth with may or may not have an impact on Long Island or elsewhere. I think it's not as much driven by state government initiatives as it is by the general economy. But that's my thought on it.

Okay.

I guess I would just say, I think I would tend to agree with Joe, but I think that One of the things we're expecting from Governor Hochul today is some focus on specifically on affordable housing. And if that, you know, if that message is to encourage development of affordable housing, that may create some, you know, opportunities for development companies on Long Island. We just, we don't know.

Okay.

Yeah.

Marissa, I know you're broader than the state, so if you—

And I just, I just think the strongest influences for business this year are likely to be some of these national, you know, these broader national factors, things like, you know, To what degree is inflation cooling? To what degree does it get easier to find workers? You know, how much do interest rates continue to move, which is another cost? And I think those may sort of outweigh any specific state policies.

Okay.

Do you feel that the national, you know, some of the changes that we were probably anticipate seeing nationally are going to impact New York State to a large or lesser degree. By the way, I don't know whether any of you heard Schumer's talk on Friday at the LIA, Long Island Association, where he said it was for the first time Last year, New York State received more money than it sent to the feds. So that came as a complete shock. I haven't fact-checked him, but is there any— can any of you enlighten me as to whether that's something that you've observed or known?

That would come as a shock to me. That's something that the LIA and many, many others have been saying for the longest time, that we send more money to the federal government than they send. By far.

I mean, by magnitude. Yeah.

And that— I would fact-check that first. But if the senator said that, gotta ask, what does that mean? And if we can't make that excuse anymore, then— and the federal government has invested that much into Long Island— then what are we doing with it? It's a really good long-term story for a lot of us.

Yeah, yeah. Apparently, you know, had a lot to do with the infrastructure.

Sure.

Okay.

All right.

Um, are there— you know, there are some businesses that are given some preferential treatment, let's say by the IRS or by government. Um, since we are an island of small to mid-sized businesses. Do you feel that there should be a more even-handed approach? You know, for example, from the IRS that gives preferential treatment to real estate developers.

Just as a curiosity, is there anything that you can think of that would help the small Well, and Ruth may be best qualified on that one in terms of a broad national federal tax policy, but I guess I can't really speak to that. You know, when you said preferential treatment, I guess what, what I was thinking of is perhaps IDAs, our industrial development agencies here, you know, and I think that a lot of businesses go and get tax help that way. They get a deal to reduce their property taxes, their mortgage recording taxes, etc., on new development. And those are controversial because they obviously help those particular businesses, but they reduce In some cases, reduced tax collections. In other cases, they're actually getting something that's been vacant or dormant for a long time developed, and even a reduced tax payment is better than what that property was producing before. But I think that that is a big factor on Long Island, you know, kind of the businesses that can utilize that benefit. And some people would argue that rather than taxing businesses so much that they need to go to the IDAs to get their taxes reduced to do projects, it would be better to see a policy that reduced taxes across the board for small businesses. But again, Catherine, I don't know that I can speak to IRS policy on real estate development companies.

Okay. I guess I would speak more broadly, and my job is not to advocate for small businesses or to, you know, or particular policy changes. You know, I would say many of the small businesses that I talk to find it, you know, will tell me it's hard to compete with larger companies. It's hard to compete in providing health insurance coverage, which is very expensive.

Right.

to match the benefits that larger companies offer. It's often very hard to get credit, you know, to get capital. A lot of small businesses are essentially self-funded. You know, some of them get bank loans, but there are many that, you know, as we learned during the pandemic in the Paycheck Protection Program, many of them don't have, you know, deep banking relationships. So I think there are lots of things that small business owners would say might help them compete more.

Okay.

All right.

All right. I just wanted to see if there are— Jaci, are there any questions that you would like to add?

Actually, we, we do have some questions here. One member of the audience would like you to know they do not blame the press for inflation.

So that may be some good news to bring you on this Tuesday.

Good news.

Let's see. I actually have a couple questions here. They're, they're a little different in topics, so I'll throw them out. And, and Catherine, if you want to fill this however you want. One is, You did mention that workers have changed. You know, we can say it's due to the pandemic, but if we look at that from a generational perspective, you know, millennials and younger are approaching work much differently than, let's say, the baby boomers did. So how does that impact, in particular, small business? That is one question. The next question is, you know, the news has brought us headlines talking about the new normal. And then they stopped talking about the new normal when they went to the new, new normal. And in none of those cases was anything normal. So what can we expect the next generation of news to bring us? What will be the, I guess, branding of the next era, do you think? And then another question here as it relates to the technology industry. How key is tech And what goes on with technology in determining how other industry will respond?

Okay, um, Jaci, you're gonna have to give us one of those questions at a time because—

All right, well, why don't we start with the first, which is not only the challenge to find workers due to the pandemic, but the generational challenges that Okay.

I have a couple thoughts on that. One is I think we are seeing different attitudes, at least among some people in the workforce, about the balance they want to have in their life between work and other activities. If you're a boss, I think that probably makes you not Very happy. But I think that is a change. I think there's another issue, too, on the hiring front, which is for a long time, you know, we've steered— you know, the people have been encouraged to get college degrees and go to certain kinds of jobs. So there has also been this generational issue of it's harder for people to find skilled tradespeople or to find folks who would work in a factory. And so they're both changing attitudes and sort of this changing mix of skills that we've seen. Okay.

You know, I think Ruth brings up a terrific point in that the boss may not be happy. And that's a— I think that's a good point with some of the attitudes that they hear. But I would posit that it's really important that they listen because these 2 new generations coming up have a point. I know that I've spent an awful lot of, uh, inordinate amount of time working when I really, looking back on my career, I really wish I spent a little more time with my kids and some of the things that really mattered to me. I think that is what some of the new gen— the younger people Now I'm hearing it all the time. There's some reason I have to work 12-hour days for this, you know, is this really worth it? And does my college degree pay for all of this? Has— is it worth going to college to get this kind of lifestyle? I think that's part of what I said in the beginning, that I think we're facing a sea change in the way workers look at work. And it's something that employers are gonna have to address, embrace with their HR professionals and with their top leadership. It's not just about money, it's about lifestyle. That's about, you know, how much can we expect of people? Uh, and I, I think this is something that we're gonna have to address as leaders on Long Island, specifically with our kids leaving, uh, the lack of housing, uh, a challenging economy all the time.

And I would just add, I think Ruth and Joe both make good points. I think that there have been some studies lately that suggest that, you know, you don't necessarily get more productivity by working people longer hours. I think there have been some, some looks at even companies that have gone to 4-day weeks that have found that they may see productivity increase. And maybe that's You know, employees that have better perspective, more energy for work when they're doing it because they have had time away. Especially in our business, in the media business, I think it's very important for reporters and editors to have lives outside of their work because you get story ideas when you're living your life outside of your work that sometimes if you're if you're spending your life. In a newsroom or running around interviewing people in a very, you know, focused way, you're missing everything around you. So I think that also the move to remote work, I think a lot of bosses were very concerned that everybody would be laying on the couch watching soap operas and eating bonbons when they were working at home. But I think they've— I think, again, I think studies have shown that people working from home can be just as productive. And I think that the trade-offs for people's personal lives, and I think particularly of working parents—

Yeah.

You know, the ease and convenience of working at home and not commuting an hour away from your house and having to deal with a sick child back at a school an hour away or whatever is priceless. And I think that those kinds of things, as Joe says, it's important for bosses to recognize those kinds of things can create loyalty in workers, you know, a place that gives them that flexibility. So I think those are important new things that— a little silver lining from the pandemic.

Well, I know I'm not supposed to interject my thing, but as an employer, and I started my firm over 40 years ago, I couldn't afford to hire the people I wanted from New York City. Because they were earning much more than the Long Island economy could, you know, could support. So one thing I gave them was complete flexibility. They wanted to work 4-day weeks, that's fine. If they wanted to— if there was never a question when a child was sick, they left. You know, there was never— we— and I can attest to the fact That, that has— I mean, I have people with me almost from the start here, but I also feel that now with everybody doing what I'm doing, I'm not— I don't have any competitive advantage.

Well, at Epic 5 you do, because you're a terrific team over there is a competitive advantage. But I think what you're saying about Uh, remote work and some of the things that have happened as a result of technology, also because of, uh, what's gone on, uh, since COVID I had a thought that maybe what we should do is call it the, the old abnormal would be the next, um, at least get their attention for a while in the headlines. But I found my staff work works just as hard being remote. In fact, they add about 2 hours a day to their workday because they don't get dressed. That's half an hour. They don't drive an hour to the office. That's an hour.

Okay.

It's an hour back.

Yeah.

2, 2 and a half hours, you know, and there's— and they're perfectly productive. I can reach them all the time if I want to find them. I get on the phone or I— we have chat, Zoom, and all sorts of options that were not available just 3 years ago.

So, well, I think that You all are, and I am, in businesses that we have an expectation that if something happens on a— you know, I always, I do crisis management kind of in my firm, and I think crises never happen 9 to 5. It's always 11 o'clock on a Friday evening or a Sunday morning at 6. You know, it's just the way it is. But we expect that. I have heard people in other kinds of businesses say, no, my weekends are sacrosanct. And I certainly respect that. But, you know, it is— I think we probably have to adapt our business model to the kind of industry we're in and hire the people who fit that model. So anyway, Jaci, I know we're coming up To the close of it. Is there— what were the other questions that you had?

The one other question was really, how much attention do you pay to the technology industry and the movements there? So if Amazon announces they're laying off 10,000 people or Facebook announces a major layoff, do you look at that as an indicator of something else in the economy, or do you just say, oh, it's just big tech, no one cares? What, you know, how do you play that?

At the Wall Street Journal, we definitely care. You know, that's news and that's important. I think there is this other question about, you know, we have seen a number of layoffs at big technology companies. The question then becomes, how far does this extend? Are we going to see the same kinds of things at other kinds of companies? You know, are the forces the same, or are there different issues for technology companies? And then for me, in my coverage of small business, there's this other question, which is, how is what's happening at larger companies, how does that relate to what's happening at smaller companies?

Yeah.

You certainly, you know, we certainly Watch those companies closely, but that's not all that we cover.

Yeah, I guess when you're sleeping with a lion, you know, you have to—

it—

when it rolls over you, you know about it.

Yeah, generally speaking, yes. I think technology has always driven the business agenda from the beginning of technology. So I've always thought of the big tech developments and think about what— think about the phone or electricity, how that changed industries. The sewing machine changed the textile industry. Change is always just part of what business leaders have to deal with. And the tech issues that we're facing now, the fact that some are going to die and some are going to move on and some are going to grow and some aren't, is just part of the wave of change that is always going to be confronting business leaders and the community at large, the government as well. And I think it's, it's a barometer as opposed to a, you know, an end in and of itself. It's a bellwether, something to observe.

I don't know whether— who was on Long Island when, you know, we had an exodus of Sperry, Fairchild, and then finally Grumman. But Long Island was severely hit because those companies really supported most of the smaller businesses, which were engineering firms on Long Island. You know, we thought we'd never recover, and we have, you know, not without its challenges, but we have.

Sure. I mean, there were plenty Crummin legacy companies that still thrive across Long Island. Happens all over the place.

Right, right. But I would just say what, you know, that's all true. What we've seen is our sort of shift to being a service economy. So now we're at a point where I would say at least 9 out of 10 jobs on Long Island are service jobs, and maybe 1 in 10 at most is in manufacturing, maybe not even that much anymore. So some would argue that those, you know, in general, some of those manufacturing jobs were higher paid. And it's one of the reasons a lot of people struggle to afford to live here is that some of that service economy, those are some lower paid jobs, sometimes retail or warehousing or whatever. But—

Okay.

Well, as we're about to wrap up, could I just ask if there's a closing statement? I'm sorry, Jaci, did I miss a question?

No, you're great. Okay.

Is there, you know, a final thing that you wish that were asked or would like to comment upon before we wrap up?

Joe?

Well, I think the old abnormal would be a very good place to start. I think that we're always facing challenges on Long Island and the business community without them and some of the contributions that they make, this place would not be the same. I differ slightly with Ruth and say that, yeah, I think we're special, Ruth. I love Long Island. I think we're special. And that's probably egocentric, but I have the opportunity to cover or see other markets as well. And the thing that I, I find is really kind of amazing Is how we lift each other up in times of true turmoil. We get a lot of turmoil here. This, for a place that should be a wonderful place to live in, we get hurricanes that tear this place apart. We have economic turmoil that could really be bad. We have crime. We have issues that go across the spectrum. But yet Long Islanders and their businesses often rise to the occasion. help each other, help the community, and find opportunities to volunteer their help to so many other of those nonprofits we talked about earlier. I think it's in that way, at least maybe I'm, I'm a little sentimental and I feel we're special and I think we should continue to be.

Thank you, Joe. Margaret?

Well, I would, I would echo what Joe said. I don't have a lot to add. I think that, you know, for us at Newsday, we are very Long Island focused. And I, as Joe said, you know, we're all in this together. So I would say we, you know, those of us who produce Newsday are going through the very same thing that any other Long Islander is going through. And we— I would just encourage folks to let us know what they want to read and what they want us to tell them more about, whether digital, video, or whatever. Because I think this is a conversation where we can help our communities by providing insight and information for folks. And it helps us if they tell us what they want and need from us.

Ruth, do you have—

I guess I would say everybody is special.

All the children are above average.

favorite child was the child who was with it at that moment. So I'm not saying Long Island isn't special. You know, I guess I would just say that I'm always interested in hearing, you know, from small business owners about what are the challenges they're facing, how they're dealing with them, and, you know, what are the opportunities that, that they see. I do think that there are some commonalities, and maybe they play out just a little bit differently in different places. I think it's important to just pay attention to the news, whether it's economic and business news or otherwise, so that you can make your own informed decisions. Okay.

Well, thank you all. This has been a great panel. I really feel like I learned a lot, and I thought I knew everything before I started. Thank you. Thank you all. I'm looking forward to a 2023 of reading some wonderful things about the businesses from Montauk to Sacramento. So everyone, thank you so much.

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