Covering the Hudson Valley Since 1785

FMC Fast Chat takes you inside the news so you can be in the know in 30 minutes. Hosted by Fair Media Council CEO and Executive Director Jaci Clement, Fast Chat features notables in news, media, and business.

I'm Jaci Clement. This episode of FMC Fast Chat is part of a new series, one that looks at the state of local news across America. Now, to do this, we're going straight to the the source and talking with the people who are working at some of the oldest media outlets in the country. Today we turn our attention to the Hudson Valley area of New York, and our guest is Mary Dempsey, publisher, executive editor, and general manager of Columbia Green Media. So Mary, thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

The best way to start is if you can tell me a little bit about your history, because I believe we go all the way back to the 1800s with you.

Yes, the, the 1700s, actually. The, uh, we have 2 daily newspapers, the Register Star, and the, and, uh, we also have the Daily Mail. The Reg started in 1785, um, its origins. It started out as a weekly called the Gazette, and then over centuries it turned into what it is today. The Daily Mail started in 1792, um, and it's been going since then.

And now your website though, you have the 2 papers that they merge onto the website, and the website has a different name.

Yes, it's HudsonValley360.com.

Okay, and how long has that setup been going on?

Uh, we've had a website— well, we had a website before I, um, started there 10 years ago. But they were merged probably about between 8 and 10 years ago into the one. We had 2 separate ones. We had one for the Daily Mail and one for the Register-Star.

All right. So why the merge?

Because there was no reason to have 2. People could get the news from both sides of the river. The Hudson River separates the 2 counties that we cover. Columbia County is on the east side of the river and Greene County is on the west side of the River. Um, and, and the communities, you know, get together, so it was good to have it on one site where you can get all your news.

Right. Tell me a little bit about the community you serve. How many people? What are their interests? What are, what are the big issues in their minds?

Um, well, between the 2 counties, we have about 100,000 people. They're a mix of people. You have people who are from here, And you have a lot of New Yorkers buying second homes up here, or first homes, but a lot of second homes on both sides of the river. What contributed to that was 9/11, people wanting to leave the city, and COVID. We had many people come up here during COVID to get out of the city. One of the issues, a big issue in the area, is housing. affordable housing. When everybody moved up here, the cost of housing skyrocketed. So people who are from here are, you know, have had a hard time finding affordable housing.

And how are you covering that now? Doesn't— when something like that happens, do you end up devoting more coverage just to the topic, or do you actually do some sort of internal restructuring You know, with the reporter dedicated to the topic, or just how do you go about it?

We follow it very closely. It depends on where the issue is. We have reporters in Greene County and we have reporters in Columbia County. So if it's going to affect the counties a little bit differently because the communities are a little bit different, I think that Columbia County is farther ahead with the number of people from New York City moving up than Greene County, but, but they're— it's a close second, Greene County.

Now, you've been a journalist for over 30 years. How did you get started?

My friend and I were going to open a gym, and we were going to open it in the area where I grew up, and I knew all the athletic directors in the area, and she said, get a job As a sports reporter, so you can reconnect with all the, the athletic directors.

Yeah.

I said, okay. So I did. I don't know how, but I got it. And I started there. And it was really interesting because, you know, sports is pretty formulaic when you're covering. I love shooting sports. That was fun. But we— I got a fax one day from the US Luge Association, and they said that somebody from the town was going to be competing in Lake Placid for the World Cup. So I went up and I covered him, and he couldn't believe that I came from this little tiny weekly paper and went up there, and it got picked up by everybody. And then he ended up going to the Olympics, and he hunted me down in New York to tell me that he won a medal. So I felt like— I felt the first time I got a scoop. And then about 6 years later, I went into news and that was it for me when I went to news because you have so many things to cover. So much fun.

So you're actually carrying 3 separate titles. So I guess my question is, what do you actually do all day?

A little bit of everything. I work in editorial, I work in advertising, I work in circulation. And, you know, if something breaks in the place, I try and fix it. So I do kind of everything.

Tell me a little bit about your staff situation.

We have— we are low in staff right now. We're interviewing as we speak. I just had one today for reporters. We're looking for reporters all the time. Our papers are smaller papers, so they're a great starting point for new reporters, and they often move on to bigger circulation places, papers. One of our reporters just recently left us, and now she's the Capitol reporter. She's one of the Capitol reporters for Spectrum for New York 1. So they get some good experience at our place. And, you know, training is important too. So they get their training too.

Yeah. So you're sort of a farm team?

Yeah, kind of. I'm really proud of when our reporters move on to bigger papers. I want them to get to these papers with the tools to do the job. That's my goal. All right.

So when you're running at optimal level, what's your normal staffing like? How many reporters do you have out there covering community?

We have about 8 total. And we don't right now, but we're looking to beef them up. And we had a lot of resumes come in, and I'm looking forward to the future.

Now, are they generally general assignment, or do you have some in particular beats?

It all depends. We had a— we created the state reporter's position for Johnson Newspapers because I had somebody contact me who had a bit of experience, and we're so close to Albany that I pitched the idea to the higher-ups, and they said, yeah, because we could use them at all of our properties. So it depends. I see where their strengths and their weaknesses are. And then I will assign them, you know, to whatever works. Generally, they're general assignment reporters. But if somebody has a real strength in an area, I'll put them on that.

I'm sure you've heard people talking about how local news is dying, how there's no advertising and the business model needs to change or evolve. Can you tell me your feedback on that, your perspective and Bigger question is, do you believe what people are saying? Do you find it to be true or not?

I do. I think that in the past, 25, 30 years ago, newspapers were making money hand over fist because they were the only place to really advertise and reach a lot of people. That and TV. Now, I think advertising has dropped. Circulation has dropped. And this is not the time to be shutting papers. This is a time to reinvent your business model and increase your circulation. And you can do that by diversifying your business, by getting into other businesses. If you have a print— if you have a press, don't just print newspapers, you know, print collateral advertising for other companies. You just have to— they have to just diversify. I think that's the important thing.

And is that something that's a priority with you folks?

Yes. Yes. And increasing circulation is a priority also. So, and that comes with good content, because content is king. So editorial is important. Sales and circulation, they're all important.

Okay. All right. And how does the website work? Because You know, a lot of people feel like if you have the website, then that cuts into your print circulation. So then they get the feeling that the print is sort of the stepchild of the operation. So how do you manage to balance that?

Well, we have a lot of, a lot of older— our demographics are older here in these 2 counties, and they want the print. They want it in their hand. When you get a print subscription, you get also a digital subscription-free. What's interesting is the majority of our hits on our website, the number one place that it's from is New York City. Yeah, you'd never expect that, but it is. They work hand in hand. They really do up here. People like the paper in their hands. You know, when a student athlete has their picture in the paper, it's very different than having their picture Online attached to a story, and people still like to cut them out.

Yeah, hang them on the refrigerator, that sort of thing.

Exactly. Yeah.

Oh, okay. Now, do you charge online-only subscriptions like some folks are doing?

We do that. Yes, we do online only, and we also do with a subscription, and we also have— we have promotions throughout the year.

Have you found anything in particular to be effective or maybe surprising? When you look at the different ways that you're offering your product?

Not really. We have changed our delivery system to all mail.

Really?

Yeah, we don't have carriers anymore.

Okay.

The carrier system is difficult keeping staff and reliable staff. So we went to all mail. I think it was last year or the year before. So all of our papers are delivered by mail.

Okay.

And you come out weekly? Okay. So you need to hit— you need to get to the post office when in order to be distributed?

4 in the morning.

Okay.

Yeah.

Yeah. All right. And, and it's distributed that day?

Yeah.

Okay. I see.

Same-day delivery.

How things have changed in the business since you started?

Oh, wow. When I started, there was still paste-up and, you know, and boards and everything. Um, they just started with computers. I started on a Mac with no memory writing my sports stories. Uh, so the internet has changed everything, and it has made things so much easier.

Yeah.

Uh, email has made things so much easier. I remember when I was a reporter in the '90s, in the late '90s, we had a reverse phone number book, which you could look up an address and get the phone number.

Mm-hmm.

So we had these books in the office, and when we, when we wanted to get somebody, we could, we would do it that way. Now we can just look it up online. It's great. I was always, um, into the internet and how it could help us. And I remember the first place I worked at that had the internet, they had one internet computer that we weren't allowed to use unless it was an emergency. And because of cost by, by the minute.

Yeah.

And I, it drove me nuts because I said, let me get on this thing, you know? And then they sent me to a computer-assisted seminar. computer-assisted reporting seminar, and they didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know, and I just wanted to get this online stuff going.

Yeah, yeah, I, I imagine that was when you had to do the AOL dial-up and you heard the screechy sound. Is that right?

Yes, I remember the first time I went on the internet. My, uh, a roommate of mine had gotten it. It was, um, Sears had it. It was 1990. And it was— I can't remember the name of it, but you could get nothing on the internet. It was a waste of time. It really was. But I could see the potential in it. I just couldn't wait for them to start getting information on the internet.

Yeah. Now, where you are with the newspaper now, though, is there any time where it's internet-first news?

Oh, yeah. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. anything breaking, anything the public needs to know about immediately. A couple of weeks, probably about a month ago, we had a report of a possible gun in the high school. So we not only made it internet first, we took the paywall down so people would be aware and get the— get access easily of what was going on.

Okay. And that actually leads me into what my next question is, which is, can you tell me a little bit about what kind of competition you have for news in your area, or is there any?

There is some from the Albany Times Union, but we are so localized and, and we are really, uh, focused on a lot of municipal issues that are so localized that, yes, we have competition from them, but, um, we handle it.

Okay. All right. And what about any local television or radio reporters?

The radio reporters often take our reports.

Okay.

And attribute it to us.

Okay.

Yeah, that's— we have a— we also have a local— a local— a weekly paper in Columbia County and one in Greene County. And You know, weekly and daily, they're different animals, so we coexist very well.

Okay, I see. And any magazines in your area?

Um, we do have a magazine based in Ulster County, which is just below Greene County, but it's really an arts magazine.

Oh, I see. Okay. And how has this situation changed over the years? Did there used to be more, or is everyone holding steady? Publications and, and competition for you?

Not over the past 10 years, but over the history of these newspapers, yes. And that's why you have the Register-Star, which used to be the Register, and then there was the Daily Star, and they merged. So over time, over the last 200 years, yes. But not in the last 10 years. Okay.

Are there any challenges to running such a legacy operation?

Any challenges? Well, you want to uphold the name of the papers. I mean, they've been around. They are historic, and you don't want to do any damage to the name of the papers. But if you just do your job, you won't. So we just— we're just plugging away doing our jobs.

Okay. And who writes the editorials?

The managing editor does. Ray Pignoni.

All right. And is that handled separately from the newsroom? Because I know some, some organizations sort of have them work together and some have sort of a wall of separation between the two. How is your setup?

There's not a wall of separation. Our setup is small. So there really is no wall of separation with any department or any editorial anything. Every— everybody knows what everybody else is doing. at all times because we're not a big operation.

Okay. Okay. And any challenges with that kind of setup?

I'd like to have more coverage, which means more reporters. Yeah, that seems to be the biggest challenge. Everybody— it's like a family where, where I work, and we all work together for the same goal, and it's really good.

Now, throughout the course of history, since we're going all the way back to the 1700s and some— at some point here, any particular historical news stories that the paper has covered that people would be surprised to learn?

Every historical news story has been covered by the newspaper since the 1700s, the late 1700s. The Civil War, the First World War, the Second World War, the Vietnam War—every everything has been covered. One thing that some people may not know about Hudson is in 1952, I think it was '52, and I think it was Dewey, the governor, came in to Hudson and took it over because of the corruption. That was so rampant, rampant throughout Hudson. The prostitution and the gambling was so bad, and the prostitution was on Diamond Street in Hudson, and they renamed it Columbia Street because they didn't want the name Diamond Street because the association to the prostitution. So it was, it was really corrupt here in the '50s. And the state came in and just took it over.

And then when did that change?

Oh, that probably took a few years. There have been little things here and there. There have been some murders that were covered by the Times, uh, you know, big news organizations. We did have one story recently within the last 10 years that was kind of funny. Uh, everybody picked it up. It went international. Um, and we had it first, was there was, uh, it was very cold out. It was the winter, and a car was parked on the street, and it had a dummy in the back. It was, uh, you know, to do CPR on.

Okay.

But it was very realistic looking. So somebody called the police to save this person who was in the back of a car freezing to death at night. And the police came and broke the window open and got them out. So that little story went international. We also had another little story that went international, was we had a— we had flags, you know, veterans' flags for Veterans Day put on tombstones in— at one of the— one of the cemeteries, and they kept disappearing. So they wanted to catch the thief. Somebody kept stealing them. Yeah. Couldn't catch them. Couldn't catch them. Finally, they put cameras out and there were groundhogs taking them. And they went into the hole and they found all these flags in the groundhog hole. Quirky little things like that people pick up.

Yeah. Okay. Now, if you could, you know, if you had more resources, You know, what would you be covering that you're not covering now? Or are you actually covering everything you want, just not in depth?

Oh, geographically, we would cover more towns, uh, more villages. We would cover everything. We would have everything covered. Um, we're doing the best we can, uh, with, with the staff that we have, and I, I think they're doing a very good job.

Okay. And how important is it that the staff be local? Or live in the area?

Okay. I am going to tell you that I do not necessarily like people living in the area, from the area, because they've already established relationships with many of the players that they're going to be covering. And I'm not saying that I'm totally against it, but you do get fresh eyes on the subjects, uh, when you have people from out of the area. So with no bias. Whatsoever. So, I mean, I'm not saying I wouldn't hire somebody from the area. I have hired people from the area, but I have no problem hiring people from— I have 2 reporters right now. One is from Jersey, one's from Brooklyn. Nice. And, and it's very exciting in a way, watching them see things that I've seen a million times, but they're seeing— I'm seeing it through new eyes. And it's— they're picking up some things that I didn't pick up, some not necessarily.

All right. Let me ask you your perspective on this because you actually brought it up. And this is something that's bandied about in news outlets all the time. And whether they've gone too far with it or not, I leave it up to the public. But the idea of bias versus fairness, how do you break that down or how do you explain it to your reporters?

I tell them I don't want any of their opinion in their stories. Everything should be attributed to somebody. So if I'm reading something, if I'm editing a story and I see an opinion written in it with no attribution, I take it out and I question the reporter about it.

Okay.

Because I want to make sure the slant is not opinionated. You know, everybody has their opinion, but they don't belong in stories. I haven't really run into that much. I've had some pretty good reporters who understand the bias issue, and I have no patience for it.

Okay, fair enough. What are you looking to do for the future? Are there any particular projects? I know a lot of community outlets look to do events and other things of that sort. I don't know if you currently do that sort of stuff.

Yeah, we do. We have, uh, the Hudson Food Fest every year. We have the Catskill Food Fest every year. Thousands of people show up to, to those events. We also partner with the Chambers of Commerce on each side of the river, and we hold a Best of Columbia County or Best of Greene County contest every year. We just had the gala on Friday, which was great. We host the, the contest online. And people vote for the best of different things. It's different categories, businesses, and like best hamburger, best place to eat breakfast. So we gave out the awards on Friday for Greene County. So we do both of them every year.

Okay. And that's something that's been going on how long now?

Oh, probably around 8 years.

Okay. What made you start it?

I didn't start it. The previous publisher started it. And I continued it. So I'm sure that diversification, you know, looking for other ways to generate revenue.

I understand. Yeah, I know a lot of these things sound like a good idea in the beginning and then turn into a major headache somewhere along the way.

Yeah, well, they're actually fun.

Yeah. But do you find, though, that it stresses the staff out so that You may be compromising on the news side, or do you have some sort of setup to prevent that? Because I do see that happening in some places when we do these events.

Yeah, yeah. Well, uh, the Best of Greene County, the staff really isn't involved. The, the advertising staff is involved. Okay, I'm involved, but the editorial staff, they just cover the event. That's it. Um, when we have the food fests We implore everybody— well, we don't implore, we ask everybody to participate, and everybody does. They're great. You know, if they work the food fest, they get a day off. Okay. You know, so, and that sounds fair, and they have a good time. You know, there's good food there.

I know there are places still because of COVID that their staff aren't coming into the office yet. How are you folks managing that?

We're all in the office. I had COVID 2 weeks ago, my first time in 3 years. But as soon as me and the person who sits in the office next to me, we both got it. And I didn't go near anybody for a week. And he didn't either. And it didn't spread. We've been dealing with COVID since When it first started in March, the end of February, I very closely followed the guidelines. And I think we closed down 3 times, a month at a time. Sometimes one time I think we closed for 3 months. But with the newsroom, I find that it's a real collaborative effort. And to be separated and working from home doesn't work. So a lot of things are missed. So everybody is fine. I mean, we got through it. Not many people got COVID. I was surprised that I got it and my coworker got it because probably had 4 people get it.

Okay.

Over the whole— we were very careful. I was very, very careful. With that, because their health, their health is the most important thing. And if they're out, they're out, you know, and I don't want them to have to be. So.

No, I understand. So from your, from your perspective, how would you describe the character of your news versus the community that you serve?

It's a reflection of our community. That's, that's what our news is. It's a reflection of our community. You know, these 2 papers help shape the communities on both sides of the river from the 1700s on. You hear people complain about the papers, which is an ongoing thing, which has happened since I got into this business, because they feel like they own it. And they should feel like, you know, it's covering their communities. So we're very community-oriented, and I have some reporters who have no problem going out on the street talking to people. I have no problem going out on the street talking to people. So it's— we are part of the community.

When's the last time you actually wrote a story?

A few months ago. Yeah, I just— when I get really busy with advertising and circulation, it stops me. But there was a period where I was writing stories kind of regularly.

We're actually at time, so I have one more question for you. And it kind of just sums up everything that we talked about, but also brings it back to you a little bit, which is, why do you do what you do?

Good question. Because when I told my mother back when I got into this business, she couldn't believe it because I was so shy. She said, I can't believe you're going to pick up the phone and call people. And I said, I'm just doing it. Why? Because I think it's really important. I think it's really important for people to know what's going on in their community, and I think it's really important for people to know where their tax dollars are going and what their elected officials are doing. And anything that impacts their lives, they should know about. And I just love doing it.

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