FMC Fast Chat with Allison Gilbert, Grief Expert

FMC Fast Chat takes you inside the news so you can be in the know in 30 minutes. Hosted by Fair Media Council CEO and Executive Director Jaci Clement, Fast Chat features notables in news, media, and business.

Alison Gilbert is someone you can turn to to get through your darkest moments. The noted author and grief expert joins us today to offer insight, advice, and tips to help us all deal with loss in our lives. Allison, thank you so much for fast chatting with us today.

Oh, it's my pleasure. I'm so glad to be here.

So, you know, I think we should start kind of at the beginning, which is to tell people a little bit about how you became interested in the topic of grief to begin with.

Well, I'm a media born and bred journalist. I grew up in New York newsrooms. I started and helped launch— I was part of the start team at New York 1. I went on to Channel 2 and Channel 4 and Channel 7. I went all over the dial, Channel 9, Channel 11. I feel like I've been everywhere. And then that's not even including my time at MSNBC when it launched and later CNN. So I grew up in this business. And with that experience came 9/11, where I was working for WNBC-TV and got way too close to the unfolding events that day. There were so many people who were more injured than me or who were obviously killed.

Right.

But it was a life-changing experience for me where I really wanted to pivot from covering the news specifically and only, but then to change that focus to what it means to also grieve. Before 9/11, I lost my mom. And that Friday— 9/11, as we all know, was on Tuesday— and that Friday, my father also passed away unrelated to the attacks. And so between the attacks and my parents both dying relatively young, I became much more interested in using my journalism skill set to then explore topics of grief and anxiety and really resilience and how we can remember our loved ones and feel empowered.

Okay, and, and that's key because this is a heavy topic for a lot of people. And it's kind of interesting as we are doing this, this is the live version. The majority of the people that have signed up to listen are actually women. And I'm kind of wondering if you found that in your background here, that do women naturally gravitate more towards your message than men do?

I don't think so. That's actually really interesting. I think it's an even split because there cannot be, I would argue, a more universal topic that everyone is going to be struggling with at some point in their life. I mean, just look right now, During COVID-19, this is an experience where either we are worried and fearful about contracting COVID, or we're worried about our loved ones, or perhaps we've already lost a relative or a family member or a friend to the coronavirus. So I get it. And so it's really across gender. And so that's an interesting thing that you've just described. But no, I haven't found that.

All right. I'm actually happy to hear you say that, you know. But I do want to point out one thing, though. I think we should let our audience know is you actually play an interesting role in 9/11 history. Can you tell people what that is?

Well, I would say it's a very specific role at the National September 11th Memorial and Museum. If you've been to the memorial museum in New York City, you'll of course be offered the opportunity to listen to several of the audio tours. Downstairs is the main historical exhibition. It's behind glass doors because of course some of the content is really tough to absorb. And in that particular audio tour, if you listen to it, I'm the official voice of the historical exhibition. So it's been a great honor. And the only reason why I was able to do that, or I agreed to and I was asked is because my first book was about how broadcast journalists covered 9/11. And I had co-editors on that project, but it was really meant for, I mean, it's exactly the Fair Media Council audience, right? These are broadcasters who work day in and day out, radio and TV, in front of the camera, behind the scenes. And we wrote a book about what it was like to cover that day. And we donated all the proceeds to 9/11-specific charities. So our work can kind of keep hopefully giving back. And that is what gave birth to our relationship with the Memorial Museum. But yeah, I am a big fan and they need visitors right now. They were shut down, as you know, for quite some time.

Right.

Their primary source of income right now is tickets. So if you're in New York and you want to go see the Memorial Museum, please go.

Yeah, that's a wonderful way to give back and educate yourself at the same time.

Yes.

But now let's— you touched on it a little bit. Let's draw on the parallels, though, that we see happening between 9/11 and now in during the pandemic, because we know a lot of people have lost far too many people between these 2 events, and there really hasn't been much time between these 2 events. when you think in terms of you need time to grieve and to recover, and then to be hit again by something like COVID-19. So what parallels do you see people going through?

You know, it's really interesting that you asked that question. I think there is this sense of collective grief. So much of our loss, whether it's 9/11 and we lost a loved one, let's say, in the attacks, or it's COVID-19 and it's a global pandemic, but if you've lost a loved one during this time, it's still singular and it's still really personal. But yet there's this collective grief, there's this communal understanding of perhaps giving you more sense of connectivity, that you know you're not alone, other people are going through it. And so it may not take away and strip away the sadness and the angst and the nervousness and the anxiety, but out there, you know, like, right? I mean, in the United States. I just checked the WHO stats before we got on. You know, there's almost 189,000 deaths in this country already to COVID-19. Odds are, before this is over, just like 9/11, you're going to know people who can share that intimate story. And there's commonality in that. There's that human connection to that. So that's just one example.

Okay, and you feel connection is important to the beginning of the recovery once you've experienced a grief?

Yeah, I'm not sure if the connectedness is the most important part of this journey. What I do think is the most important part of this journey, whether it's 9/11 or COVID-19, is wrapping your head around agency and having the power within so much that is unknown Within so much of a timetable that feels out of your control, what can you do to have a sense that you have the power over your next steps to move forward and gain some of that— what loss takes away from us? You know, loss takes away our power. And so what can you do to regain your footing, to regain that sense of control? And it's in that moment, and it's in that decision-making where you really form the capacity to move through. forward through this collective grief, right? And that's what can separate you from succumbing and really being debilitated by what's going on or moving forward. It's that sense of agency.

Okay, if we start there now, are there specific steps that everyone walks through, or are those different for individuals?

Well, I would say on the macro level, they are Similar. However, every individual is going to go through their own processing. So let me explain a little bit about what I'm talking about. It sounds like I'm talking, you know, both sides of the coin.

Yeah.

On the broad scale, grief is individual. We may have a very different relationship with our loved one, even a sibling relationship. If you've lost, let's say, a parent, Even among siblings who've lost the same parent, they're going to experience that loss very differently. It depends if you were close with your loved one, if you had a fractured relationship with them, if you lived far away or close together, how often you spoke with them, how integrated they were in your daily life, right? So that's, that's one parent, one family, a set of siblings who would have very different relationships. On the flip side, what we all know, what grief experts agree on, is that keeping the memory of your loved one alive is absolutely essential for moving forward after loss. It's not black or white, before and after. There's a sense of and, of moving forward, and of and There is this before and there is this after, and how do you integrate that to move forward and keep the memory of your loved one alive? And if you do that, the experts say, and the research shows, that you will have a much better chance to move forward and feel stronger. And now that's interesting, I'll say, Jaci, because some people might say, But that sounds like you're just ruminating. It sounds like you're just too invested on what Is in the past. You know, you should forget, you should move on, you should give away all the clothing, you shouldn't keep all those pieces of memorabilia, let's say, right? That's like well-meaning friends might say that to us. The research does not show that to be the case. And so by—

Right.

Investing in your emotions, there's this whole scientific research about nostalgia. We can go in, you know, much longer than a fast chat. But there is scientific research about nostalgia, and the more we invest in our memories, the more sure-footed we are in the present day. And I find that to be really exciting.

That's super interesting. I had no idea, because the advice I had always heard was, right, you put it behind you, you move on, you get rid of the reminders so you don't feel the pain any longer. And I, I guess that's maybe typical, but also Maybe would we call that old-school advice these days?

I think we're just moving forward to being more expansive in our thinking. Just think about it. This is the Fair Media Council. Even the media is getting much more integrated and involved with acknowledging loss and talking openly about grief and kind of the various manifestations that how it impacts us professionally and personally. There are websites, there are apps, there's so much more information That if you do want to go through any grieving process in community and get that, you know, zhuzh of support with others who are going through a very similar experience, those tools now are at your fingertips, and it's actually really impressive.

Okay, but one of the things that keeps coming to mind while you're talking is, you know, when people are in pain, And they need help, but a lot of times they can't ask for it or aren't aware that they need to ask for it. So how do you help someone who you can tell needs help, but they don't even know it yet? What do you do?

Yeah, that's a good question. That's about how to be a good friend, right? How to show up and be supportive. I think there is a fine line that you were just alluding to, which is like if the friend doesn't even know that they need support, but you're viewing it as, you know, that there's support to be given.

Right.

I think right there could be a very interesting thing to kind of massage and to really explore, which is, are you uncomfortable with how your friend is processing his or her grief because you would do it differently? That's very possible. Or are you somehow able to disengage and take a bird's-eye view and really, because you're somehow an expert, know that what they're doing is unhelpful under any circumstances. And I think that's a really tough line. And when I say you, Jaci, I don't mean you in particular. That's for you—

I realize, yeah.

In general, right? So what makes— for example, when my parents passed away, I was much more emotive, much more excited to talk about them, much more willing to go through their belongings. It was where I needed to be. My brother did not need to do similar things, and that doesn't mean he was grieving any less than me. It just means that we were grieving differently. So part of it is the acknowledgement, back to your other very good question, which is like, do we all do this the same?

Yeah.

We all don't do it the same. And so I think one solution, going back to your question about, so what do you do and what do you offer? There could be a very wonderful email that you can send with a list of resources that you've come across that you think may or may not be helpful, you know, for them.

Okay.

And that way they can read it, they can digest it all on their own time, and then they don't feel judged by what they take you up on and what they dismiss. You give them the information but allow them to kind of glom onto those resources that resonate for them.

Got it. So you're helping to direct, but you're not being pushy about it, right?

I think I wouldn't use the word direct. I say you're being helpful by providing information and resources, and then, again, sense of agency. They direct their own interest about what those resources mean to them and whether or not they're ready. You know, sometimes a week after a loss, we're not going to be as open as we are to certain information. we are even 6 months later, a year later, you know, 19 years since September 11th, right? There might be information today that maybe you're still grieving that sense of safety that maybe you took for granted. Maybe now you're ready for that information, but maybe back then it was too new.

Okay. All right. There's something else happening, though, kind of talk that's bubbling up in Washington, D.C. now. Focused on the idea of bereavement funding. Now, what is this about?

Oh my gosh, Evermore is this amazing organization. I recommend that everyone on this call or who's listening to it later on check out Evermore. They are really going to bat in Washington to get bereavement care almost like healthcare, right? To get it to be something that we don't take for granted, that we back up with legislation, that we back up with federal funding. that people should be left with scaffolding around them after any sort of grief in their life. And if we do that, there are many other ripple effects that we are hoping— and I say we, I just think Evermore is fantastic, so I put myself in the we, but, you know, the collective we— that we can then provide everyone in this country who is going through a loss with the information and the resources that they need, and hopefully provide them at a cost or no cost so it's accessible to everyone. Right now on that level, there's this wonderful research going on to find out what each of these federal agencies are doing. I think there's 9 of them that are most responsible for this funding or potential funding. And they're doing an excavation of really what their funding is all about and what has historically gone to bereavement care. And also, more importantly, what's been underfunded or not funded at all, and how can we get the dollars to support Americans who are really having a tough time after a loss.

That sounds like a monumental step forward for just the idea of mental wellness in this country.

Yes.

That's a topic we don't hear much about to begin with. We have actually a lot of questions here from people that are listening. One in particular keeps coming up, and that is, you know, with COVID-19, one of the problems with it is you just don't know. We don't know how long it's going to last. We don't know if we or someone we know will be infected. So do you have any tips on dealing with the uncertainty that happens before you even know if you have a problem or not?

You know, that's so interesting that you mentioned that. I have just come across this incredible research about uncertainty distress. There's actual research going on right now about what it means to live in this constant state of not knowing what's going to happen tonight or tomorrow and what's going to lead the newscast and what are the new protocols going to be. And this constant recalibration of what's safe for you, what may be safe for your children or for your, you know, older parents. It's real. It's real. Not knowing what's happening and not having the ground feel very secure underneath your feet is very disorienting. And so what many experts are now saying to counter that, because of course, There is no fix to that, what you've just described.

Right.

It is what it is. Is what can you do in your own space for your own family to give you that sense of power back within the confines of what you can control? So the antidote is how you can kind of live your life with specificity. So for you, if you're unsure about COVID-19, it's making sure that you and your family are safe, that you and your family are following following these guidelines. I have 2 kids in college and they're actually away right now. And so it's a matter of making sure that you are in agreement with your own adult children of how they're going to, if you can, you know, to your best of your ability as a mom from a distance. Control what you can control. And that goes to your mental well-being and your physical space. So we talked about the physical space, the masking, social distancing, what you can do on your own. The mental space is also very important. So how do you maintain that composure? How can you be more in the moment and not fearful of what's out there? And I don't know if you're into deep breathing exercises or guided meditation, but there's so many apps that I think make it easier, which I can name if you want me to. But I think that if you're new to deep breathing and if you're new to some sort of meditation, doing it as a guided Exercise where you can just plug in your iPhone and listen to an app and have somebody else kind of talk you through it, even if it's for like a minute, I think is really helpful because anxiety, by the way, just one last thing, it produces some real physiological changes in our bodies.

Like what?

Our hearts quicken, our breathing becomes more shallow, we can't take a deep rich breath, which is also very calming. And so we can actively bring down our biology to reflect a calmer state that tricks our brain into being able to think about things in the way that we were just talking about before, regaining that sense of power and control. So I highly recommend these apps that can do guided meditations for as short as, you know, a minute. If you're new to it, I think it really helps, and it's been proven to as well.

Yeah, we also have a question here related to, you know, you're not only dealing with the uncertainty of your health right now, but so many people have lost their jobs in addition. So it's almost like a double whammy coming at you. So I know a lot of people advocate for just physical movement, whatever it is, to help cure depression. Do you find that also helps with anxiety and these other issues we're talking about?

Definitely, no. I'm on the board of the National Alliance for Grieving Children, and I'm on the advisory board for TAPS, which is the, really the preeminent organization that supports military families when they've lost a loved one. And across the board, what we know to be the case is that exercise is a mood booster, right? We've all heard about the endorphins.

Yeah.

It is true. And I think sometimes we've gotta fake it until we make it, right?

Right.

We got to go out the door when we don't want to and go for that walk. We got to do 1 push-up even if we don't want to, because we know there is the potential for feeling better. What we certainly understand is that by not walking, even for going around the block, by not doing those things, we are not giving ourselves the advantages of exercise. So, even if you are kicking and screaming and you don't want to do it and you would rather be in bed and watch Netflix, There's a time for that. We're not saying don't do that. Again, back to that word, and. You can do both. You can make the time to do both. And that goes back also to that proactivity piece, to have that sense of agency, to know you can exercise a little and you can still put the covers over your head when you need to. You are allowed to do both. It's not one or the other.

Oh, that's great advice. I'm wondering though, as you talk, what about small children? How do you talk with small children and understand if they are grieving or if they're understanding the loss and walking them through that?

The most important thing I can share, and I know our time is limited, is never lie to a child. That is full stop the most important advice I can ever give. Children will always find out the truth. And you don't want to be the parent, grandparent, or caregiver that was responsible for a lie. Now, that does not mean that you say and verbalize to a 5-year-old the same information that you would give to a 15-year-old, right? I'm not saying that those 2 age groups receive the same information. Clearly, a 15-year-old can like hold on to more serious information and kind of digest it differently. However, the truth is what's most important. You just have to dole it out in age-appropriate ways. But that is definitely the call to action, which is never bury the truth. Never color it either, because that will really kind of undermine that relationship that you're trying to build on trust with that child.

Got it. So what are your tips for actually— once you're through the grief process, how do you start turning that around and finding happiness and gratitude and remembering the person for what they were?

Yeah, well, I would say, first of all, I don't think you're ever through it. I don't think it's ever done. I don't think there's ever like, you know, in the news media— I'm guilty of this too. I like to get my assignment, you know, after the 9 o'clock meeting. I like to know that my piece is due at 5. And then I'm done at 6 and I get to go home and I do it all again, right? I get the newsroom mentality because I grew up in that environment. I've had to learn that this is a very different process. So grief we hold on to. And when it first starts, it may be the heaviest suitcase and the biggest suitcase packed with grief you've ever seen. And then maybe over time that becomes a backpack. And it's a little lighter, and then it becomes a little, like, you know, carry bag, you know. But no matter what, you get my point. We carry it with us always.

Yeah.

It goes back to that word and. How do we integrate the grief and all that's good in our lives now? Like, how do we carry both? It's not binary. We can have grief and a happy life, right? It could be both. And so, I think that the best way of doing that is to keep memories alive, and that's what I've really devoted my work to these last few years, which is how to remember our loved ones. And what can you do beyond or in addition to lighting a candle or going to a cemetery or releasing ashes, you know, into the ocean? What are the practical ideas, some of the creative ideas? And that's why I wrote my book, Passed and Present. P-A-S-S-E-D, like passed away and present.

Right.

Because I wanted to supply these ideas to make sure that we can all be richer And keep our loved ones with us whenever we need their advice and support.

Got it. Now, we're almost out of time, but I do want to touch on something I'm seeing quite a bit of lately, which is because of the pandemic, we can't be there in person for memorial services. So now there you're seeing virtual services happening and virtual memory programs. You have something new coming up that addresses that, right?

Yeah, well, I was really honored. Thank you for bringing that up. I was honored back in March to be asked to join the Global COVID-19 Relief Coalition. And I have just released my first ever series of e-courses that, of course, you just take online. And the first one, I would argue in this case, in this scenario for our conversation right now, maybe the most important one Is how to organize and plan and execute the best, the most meaningful virtual memorial that we can. And it's an e-course that, you know, once you watch it, you know, it's less than an hour, you will have all the tools that you need to really pull an event off online that really honors your loved one and celebrates what they still mean to you. And I really mean that, like the still meaning present tense. Just because they have died doesn't mean they've stopped meaning something to you, right? What they still mean to you. And part of the guilt, I think, that comes along— we haven't talked about guilt— is not being able to give our loved one the kind of funeral or memorial service that they would have received if there wasn't COVID-19 and we can all gather and not do these events And so the reason why I developed this new 4-part e-course, and the first one that we've just talked about, the virtual memorials, to make sure that we run that narrative out the door, that we can memorialize in an effective way. And it's been really gratifying to show people how.

Right. And people can find that on allisongilbert.com, I'm imagining? Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah, my websites and my books and my blog, and I have a great Q&A series, and I know that we have a lot of media lovers on there. There are some great media folks who have participated on my grief and resilience series, and I'm thinking, Soledad O'Brien comes to mind, and Don Lemon from CNN comes to mind. I know there are others, but those are top of mind, and I just, I feel so fortunate to be able to have this platform now to talk about these really unpopular topics that I think are becoming so urgent and, of course, more and more necessary every single day during this pandemic.

Right. Unpopular but necessary is what it all amounts to, right?

Yeah.

But I want to—

what, 190,000 deaths in this country?

It's a lot. It's really hard to wrap your head around that. And hopefully you don't know too many people who have been impacted by it. But like you said, statistically speaking, We're gonna be due, right?

Yeah, yeah. And you've always said, you know, I know the Fair Media Council is all about, you know, words matter. When it comes to grief and loss and resilience and how the media portrays these very delicate issues and these relationships that are fracturing before our eyes, words really do matter. And we have the power to frame these conversations in a way That makes people feel more connected, that allows them to feel less alone, and really allows us to come around this kind of digital water cooler and embrace each other with the kind of support and reassurance and information that they can use to become stronger and feel more resilient. And we talked about agency, right?

Mm-hmm.

And to feel that sense of power, and that is the ultimate antidote to anxiety is feeling a regain of power. And so that's what this conversation has been about, and that's what my e-courses are about. And so I think the media has a huge role to play.

All right, Allison, we're out of time. It goes too fast, especially for topics like this. I want to say thank you for you making yourself available to us and sharing your expertise. And I want to thank everyone for listening and being with us today.

Thank you so much. What a pleasure. Thank you so much, Jaci.

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