Build Your Own Brand with James Colistra

I was also tying my identity to Forbes in a lot of ways too, which I think can become dangerous because I realized you can have the rug pulled out from under you. And that's what happened to me in January of 2024. I was laid off. I remember telling Avery, and she was only 8 years old, and she, she looked at me and she's like, Daddy, why did they get rid of you? You're the best. And at the time, I kind of just felt like I had let her down and let them down. And it It caused me to kind of rethink my entire approach to my career and my identity, and I was struggling for for a while. But I ended up launching Wonderfish because I decided that I could do something that to me would make them proud. When I was at Forbes, I didn't necessarily have to have much of a voice because you know I was I was in the machine of Forbes and we had this big brand behind us. But now, like when I'm off on my own, I have to go out there. I have to tell stories. So I'm going through it myself, and I'm also helping people find their voice, which has become my passion.

Hi, beautiful soul. Welcome to Live in Technicolor Podcast. My name is Baiba, and I hope you had a wonderful weekend and beginning to your week. If reinvention of your work has been on your mind, then this conversation is And it's no matter whether it's by choice or by circumstance. James shares how he worked years in corporate, then ended up being laid off in 2024 and deciding to start his own podcast booking agency. He will share more about what is it and how he got the idea and some of the trial and error it took. And this also goes into a larger conversation around fatherhood, connection, vulnerability, and risks, both risks that come with staying in something that is okay or maybe not even making you happy, and also of starting something of your own, because that's usually a big part of weighing the pros and cons when you are considering doing something new. So let's go and let's talk to James.

James, welcome. So good to have you.

Bye-bye. It's my pleasure. Happy to be here.

So let's jump into it. You know, I really feel called to start with one of the posts you made, and I see that you kind of talk about, especially on your LinkedIn, more about personal and family aspects, which I think is amazing. I think we need more of that. And somehow that platform always has seemed like a little bit boxy for me. And I really commend you for that. And I wanted to ask you to share a little bit more about the note that you wrote to your kids. Sure.

Sure. I'll definitely share that story. Before I go into that, I'll just mention too, because I kind of, you kind of hit on an interesting point is like people tend not to share personal stories on LinkedIn. And that's really what my whole philosophy is, is just being more vulnerable, being more personal because you, you have to do that nowadays because I think people, that's how you can connect with people on a human level. And right now we're competing in this world, especially competing with AI, really. So being human and being vulnerable, to me, it's a gift to yourself because it allows you to connect with other people, but it's also a gift to other people because when I share stuff like that, people always reach out to me and say, oh, that really resonated with me. So the particular post that you're referring to, so I wrote about how one of my— he was a client of mine and I was a client of his. His name's John Horde. So I have a podcast booking agency called Wonderfish. I was getting him on podcasts to book his appearances, to get his story out there because he has an amazing platform. It's called the Engaged Father Project. And it's all about— it's a coaching process or coaching platform that helps fathers who are busy professionals to be more engaged and to show up for their kids, which I always felt like I was a good dad. But sometimes you kind of go into autopilot where you're just going through the motions, you know, wake up, you got to get your stuff done. Like, what do your kids— what do you want to eat? You know, did you do your homework or whatever? And so it's really about taking a step back and, and just rethinking about how you approach fatherhood in general. And he helps you develop like a whole fatherhood operating system. So I thought it was an amazing program that I went through with him, and it's really about what fatherhood and being a parent means to you, and then living that truth, right? And that's what I loved about it. But we got to the end of the program— it was an 8-week program, one-on-one coaching, 1 hour every week— and we got to the end of it, and he did this exercise that it really just kind of floored me. Because I'm not like an overly emotional person, you know, I don't cry very often, maybe at like a funeral My when my grandparents passed, I can remember it might be the last time I cried. You know, my wife is crying all the time. Like she's a different type of individual. I'm not I'm not outwardly emotional like that. But the exercise was to write a letter to to my kids, and he said, you know, think about the things that you want to say to them that maybe you haven't maybe even keeping in. So I I talked about I said. The first thing I said was, and I'm gonna try not to cry again. I said, Father, I said—

Oh, you can. Like, you don't have to hold back. I mean, I think we feel this father wound so acutely on this planet.

Yeah. And I said, look, I started out, I said, there's no handbook to being a parent. You know, we kind of just do the best that we can. And I said, you know, I try to be, you know, the best father that I can. I want you— I want to do what's best for you. And like I talked about how, you know, sometimes I'm not perfect and I might try to solve every one of your problems, but that's not my— might not be what you need in that situation. But I said, you know, I said, I hope that your childhood has been like super, you know, when you look back at it, it's something that, you know, the moments that we spent together were what really mattered the most. And it was things like that, like, I just wanted to kind of get off my chest. And I just started, like, bawling. I was, like, surprised. Like, this moment just kind of shook me. And I think it was because, like, everything was just pent up inside that I don't— things that I don't necessarily say to my kids or don't talk about. And it was amazing. And I did give it to my kids and they were kind of like, Cool, Dad. Okay, thanks. Like, all right, what do I do with this? I wasn't sure how they would react, but I think they appreciated that, you know, that I told them that I, you know, I've been going through this program and I'm doing everything I can just to like be the best dad I can. Because I think people approach parenting as just kind of like it's a given. And it's one of those things where, like I said, there's no guidebook. It's not like when you're becoming an entrepreneur or you're getting into a different career, there are coaching things. Like, people seem to invest more time in thinking into the way that they approach those activities, whereas parenting is just kind of, you just do it and you're just like, okay, this is the way. So, I think it is interesting to think about a little bit differently and to approach it from a different mindset of using a coach. I thought was really valuable and I never I never would have thought to even do that. I just came across John. He initially wanted to do podcasts and I was like, this program is actually really interesting. I'm going to try it out. So it was, it was a, it was a really cool experience. And he, he has a school community that now I'm part of and it's a free school community that people could join. So yeah.

Are you open to sharing it? I'd love to add it in the show notes.

Oh, of course. Yeah. I could give you the link for it. Yeah. I'm always looking to help. His community and get more people to to join and engage for sure.

Yeah, it sounds like he is doing a beautiful, beautiful service for this world. Thank you so much for sharing it. And you know, like before we started talking, like a couple hours ago, you know, I looked at your post. You know, I did a little more research, and then right before the recording, I was playing this song, and I don't know if you've heard it. Papaute. It's like the song by a Belgian artist in French. It's actually in French, but it has really strong resonance. And essentially, the boy is out crying, where is my father? So it is a song about a father that physically was no longer present because of the genocide in Rwanda.

Wow.

Or, you know, I don't want to misspeak. But that song played, and I remembered your note. And honestly, like, I have a deep father wound that was left in me because my father, he was physically present, but he wasn't present. And I would say—

Mm-hmm.

I healed it when I was 43. I mean, it took me 43 years to walk that walk. And you doing this, like, your kids will appreciate it one day, you know, they will definitely appreciate it. And you doing this work, And you kind of walking this walk and also spreading it, you're healing the world. This is what Michael Jackson is talking about. Oh, wow.

I know.

I really appreciate that. And I'm glad that, again, like it's resonating with you because he, John talks about all the time when he posts on LinkedIn and he'll say like, if you're a woman, even this might resonate with you. Maybe something you could share with your husband or, you know, you have you have kids yourself and, um, you kind of know just because you're a woman doesn't mean you're not like in my audience. Like, he's, he's connecting with a lot of women too because women can relate to the, the situation and like they've been a daughter and like have a relationship with their father as well. So yeah.

Yeah.

And I think there's a big outcry on this planet right now in this era for strong masculine, right? And strong masculine is not just, you know, authoritative. It's presence, right? It's presence. It's responsibility. And I think one of the things you talked about, um, was, uh, responsibility. You feel that there's, you know, like part of that was that there— the kids are always watching, right? Because it's so true. I have a 16-year-old son.

Right, yeah. I talked about how, because I would always say that being an entrepreneur is one of the hardest jobs that I've had, if not the hardest job that I've ever had, because, you know, I walk— I went through the corporate world. I worked at Forbes. I was at The Economist. I was at Forbes. Yeah, it was difficult. Any job can be difficult, right? You have responsibilities and you have a boss and you have to have deadlines and all that sort of stuff. But when you become an entrepreneur, The stakes are a little bit higher or a lot higher because everything is riding on your shoulders. But then I took it and then I realized that what's even harder than that is actually being a dad because the stakes, I mean, you could, you could make a mistake in your entrepreneurship and in your, in your business and then you could start a new company, right? But like, you can, you know, you can't do that with your kids. Like if you, you know, make a mistake or whatever, you're like, oh my God, like that's their life. Like they, you know, I'm really like, that's where the responsibility, like there's a huge responsibility is what I was trying to say. And again, yeah, they're always watching, they're always listening. And so you have to be very aware of that. You kind of have to, and that's a big part of what we went through in the program is modeling, you know, all the things that we're doing, whether it's like emotional regulation or— just having strong values, all those things they're looking up to you for. And they're kind of, they're watching you. And so, you're, it's not just about, it's not just about what you're teaching them and, and, and how, you know, the, the things that you're saying to them, it's, it's your actions and, and, and how you're actually portraying those values. And, and that's, that's extremely important. And so, we, what we talked about in the program is like, what are the things that you're doing that maybe you don't want to be modeling? for them, like whether it's like even small things like going on your phone. But I'm always trying to model really important values like giving. Giving back is like a huge value of mine. And so, I mean, I do, you know, the basic things like volunteer at soup kitchens and things like that. But I always try to think about my expertise and skills and how they can actually be applied in ways that are just a little bit more unique versus So, to give you an example, there's a book called— actually, I'm blanking on the name, but Jim Cook, the— I could probably find the book because I know it's on my shelf behind me. The founder and CEO of Boston Beer Company that makes Sam Adams wrote this book, and they sponsored an event at our Forbes Under 30 Summit, and I got to meet him, and he signed the book and everything. But there was a chapter in there, and it talks about, it says, stop painting and start partnering. And what he meant by that, he told his company, because he noticed that they were doing things in the community, they were going and painting schools or whatever. And, you know, we did stuff like that at Forbes, but he wanted them to think about things that they can actually partner that tap into their unique skill sets. So, at Boston Beer Company, you know, all these really interesting entrepreneurs and Not entrepreneurs, intrapreneurs really, like corporate types, right? But they have a lot of skill sets and they actually, they ended up developing a whole program that helps smaller craft beer companies get off the ground and kind of like an incubator. And people would say like, aren't those your competitors? But no, he saw big, big beer, big breweries like Budweiser and Coors as his main competitors. And if he could help this community of like smaller craft So that's what he started doing. And when I was at Forbes, I have a huge passion for veterans because my twin brother, his name's Corey. So we're actually fraternal twins. He was in the military. He actually still is in the reserves. And he went to Iraq, he went to Afghanistan. When he was in Afghanistan, there was a New York Times reporter that was stationed with his platoon. because my brother was a platoon officer. And he ended up writing a whole book about my brother. There was a whole chapter about my brother's platoon and the mission that they did in Afghanistan. And it was fascinating to read, to see what they did there, because my brother never really told these stories.

Yeah.

But then I was also touched by the downside of, like, a lot— they talked about— because it followed other individuals, and some of them, when they came back, they just struggled because, like, Getting back into society, like obviously can be very difficult, and they have a lot of traumatic experiences. And then I ended up because I have this other passion where I I used to make spicy ketchup, and I love hot sauce, and I have like a whole hot sauce Instagram. And I noticed that all these veterans were were developing their own sauce brands. So when I was at Forbes, I actually created like a like a peer-to-peer mentorship group, and I would bring other employees from Forbes. And we would give them advice. We had like Zoom sessions and I wanted to start, I've been thinking, I've been so busy with Wonder Fish. I want to start doing more stuff like that where I can think about how to apply my skills to help different causes or things around me. But, um, but getting back to like being a parent, I think what I'm trying to do is just model, model the right actions, the behavior for my kids.

Mm-hmm.

And it, I noticed the other day that it that it is working because my oldest daughter, she's 13. She just um she just decided and she didn't have to do this. It wasn't like a requirement for school or anything. She decided to to volunteer for um because she's a cheerleader. So they have this cheerleading program for kids with disabilities or different all different types of disabilities. And she started volunteering like as a coach. And she's done coaching for like little kindergartners before. So she's something she loves. But she wanted to give back and help this cheer team. I think it's called Cheer Abilities. And so I thought that was really cool. I'm like, okay, maybe what I'm doing is working and, you know, it's kind of all coming full circle.

So. 100%. I love that. 100%. I have a 16-year-old son, almost 17, and definitely they don't listen to what you're like preaching, right?

Or teaching, right?

Or talking. They are clocking the actions, how you show up, how you're walking your own walk. Instead of saying, put down your phone, are you like— it's a consistent, like, it's this— it's a line to walk, right? Integrity.

Exactly. It's integrity. Yeah. And that, that's a really good word. I mean, integrity is what you're doing when, when other people aren't Like, when they aren't watching, like, how are you acting? What are you doing? So, but at the end of the day, like, they are watching, like I said. So, but you have, you never know, like, what they're paying attention to. And I think they pay attention to a lot more than you realize.

So. 100%, 200%. Is that their responsibility kind of that you were talking about that you feel?

Yeah, I mean, I think early on in my parenting or my being a father, I think you kind of feel like there's almost like a pressure where, you know, like, oh my God, am I going to mess this up? But I think if you think about it as a positive, look at the positive side of it, it's like you have a responsibility to do everything you can to make sure that, you know, obviously that all their basic needs are met, whether it's You know, food, all that stuff is obvious stuff. But I think about it broadly and think about the big picture. And I— and again, we talked about this a little bit in the program. Like, think about like, what is the legacy that you want to leave behind? Not only for them and, you know, for this immediate family. I have 2 daughters and my wife, but thinking about like their kids someday, like what are the things that you want to pass on? And I'm still learning and growing and building that. So I have this what we call, what he calls the Fatherhood Operating System that I wrote. And I'm sure it's going to continue to evolve and think about like, how is that going to, how is that going to change and grow? But I actually took all of the transcripts from my coaching one-on-ones with John, and then I, and I took my Fatherhood Operating System and I actually created like a custom GPT where so I can like literally go to this at any point in time. And I could ask it for like advice. Like, hey, this is a situation that happened. What do you think? And I have John too that I can go to. But I thought this was kind of cool that I can like take all this, all this data information and put it into this custom GPT. And like, so now I'm like using, using AI and technology a little bit. But, but at the end of the day, like, I know in my core what my values are, but it's, it's always important just to have something to go back to and to refer to and just to like.

I love that. Thank you so much for sharing because obviously that takes a lot of courage and strength. And I would say what came to me is that your legacy really is the heart, the big heart that you have, and they feel it.

Exactly. I think I want to tell another quick story because it kind of To the, to your point, like my, my, my youngest daughter, I've always said she, so the oldest one was the one that I just talked about, but the youngest daughter, like she has the biggest, she's the most empathetic person I've ever met on my, in, on this planet. Like she just has like such a heart where she just always is so concerned about other people and, um, you know, she wants everybody to be happy and, um, all that sort of stuff. And it, They, they both have that, but it's just interesting to see how— this is something that I always noticed, like just the different types of personalities you have in your diff— in your kids. And they in some ways need to be parented differently too. Like that, that was one of the things I realized is like, you can't like treat both kids exactly the same. Like one of them might not necessarily want as much affection or hugging or, you know what I mean? So. But Avery is just like this big love bug. So I wanted to tell the story of when— so I was working at Forbes for, for close to 10 years, like it was almost 10 years. And I loved Forbes as a brand. I loved the, the just the— there was sort of like a familial aspect to working there. My wife actually baked Steve Forbes' cake for his 70th birthday.

Wow.

So he invited us to, to the birthday party too. And 'cause she, she was baking cakes as like a hobby and, and his daughter asked if my wife could do this. And we, I actually had to carry this cake on my lap riding in the car into the city. And I was like nervous I was gonna, I was gonna like ruin it or something. And it ended up just being this beautiful cake. It had like Yankees, uh, the Yankees logo and a bat. And he also liked McDonald's, so I had like a cheeseburger and all this stuff. And the cool part was he wrote an email to her after and he's like, if there was a Nobel Prize for cake baking, you would win it. And it was like the sweetest thing. And so I have all these amazing memories like that. And I was able to bring my kids into the office and they would come and get snacks and say hi to everyone and meet all the editors and So they, they love the fact that I work for Forbes. And I think they, they thought it was kind of cool, right? So I think it was— that was, that was a really positive aspect in a lot of ways. But I was also tying my identity to Forbes in a lot of ways, too, which I think can become dangerous sometimes because I realized, I mean, you can have the rug kind of pulled out from under you. And that's what happened to me in January of 2024. I was laid off and it came as a shock, even though in the media industry there was a lot of— there's been quite a bit of turmoil. But for the most part, Forbes was never affected by that. We didn't really have any layoffs even during the pandemic. But, you know, things happen, whatever. And I was laid off and it surprised me. It shook me. But I was most concerned about telling it, telling my kids about it, I actually waited a couple days because I was just— I don't really know why. I think I was really sad in a lot of ways because I just didn't want to let them down. Right. And so, I remember telling Avery, and she was only 8 years old, and she looked at me and she's like, Daddy, like, why did they let you go? Why did they get rid of you? You're the best. And I think it was like, looking back, like she was saying that because she has such a big heart and she felt for me and she kind of was trying to make me feel better. But at the time, I kind of just felt like I had let her down and let them down. And it, it caused me to kind of rethink my entire approach to my career and my identity because, you know, I then went on and was applying to all these different jobs and it was like, What do I want to do? Like, I want to continue to do something that makes me proud, but also makes them proud of their dad, right? And I was struggling for a while because I was like, I don't really know. I was, and I was actually struggling to get interviews too. It was just a tough market. But I ended up launching Wonderfish because I decided that I could do something that To me, would make them proud. And I think being an entrepreneur is like it could be a very difficult thing. But if you can achieve it and you could do it, I think it's something that I that they would look up to. So part of me was thinking that in the back of my head. But then I was also thinking about how when I was at Forbes, a big part of what we did was about giving other individuals, entrepreneurs, and successful people a platform to go out there. and share their story and share their message. So, even though I wasn't working for Forbes, I could still, I could still do that. And that's, that's what has been fueling me, empowering me. So, it's, it's really kind of full circle where it's being an entrepreneur now is a lot— being an entrepreneur is allowing me to, to live my, my, my truth, which is doing something that I can give back, but also making my, my kids proud and making myself proud. So. That's, that's my, my story.

I love it because it ties in the responsibility aspect, and I love how you pulled the thread of the platform. Okay, so you worked for a big platform that was created by somebody else, and now you are creating your own.

Exactly. And I, and I could use exact— I could use a lot of what I learned all through my, my career in media because I mean, I definitely learned a lot and I, and I saw, I saw firsthand how hard it is to build an audience from scratch. Like you're doing that right with, with your podcast and you're doing a really great job. I know I saw if you look at the different ratings, like List Notes, it's like it's in the top 5%. Like it's, you're doing well building this audience. And I know that it's not easy to do that. So what I decided that I'm gonna do is actually leverage other people's audience that are building that and creating trust. And that's exactly what I'm doing is like finding the audiences that people have built up and then leveraging them because perception, I like to say, I mean, there's a phrase, perception is reality, but media in like different, doing appearances through time can change the perception of your personal brand. But it also a lot, one thing that people don't think about is Now again, back to this age of AI, your perception is actually the perception that AI has of you can be changed through getting media coverage or going on podcasts. That's not, that's something a lot of people don't think about. Like the answers that, like right now, if I were to go and ask ChatGPT, who's James Colistra of Wonderfish? It's gonna gimme an answer. But if I go on 30 podcasts, that answer is gonna be much different. It's gonna affect its perception of me, which is like fascinating because the perception that AI has of you is, is affecting the perception that everyone has of you. So it's interesting. It's kind of crazy.

You said that. It is. It's interesting you said that, but what came to me, it's almost like the AI is behind. So it only is as good as what you've put Yeah. But you said you're always evolving. Like, I'm always growing, I'm always fine-tuning and calibrating, right? Because I'm a living human being, and I believe beyond, you know. So the AI is always behind, right, to what I have put out so far.

Yeah, it's a kind of a reflection of, of the past in a way. It takes a while because it has to crawl it and has to get up to date and everything. So yeah. And I think in time maybe it'll, it'll become faster and like have more real-time updates and things like that. But it definitely takes a little bit of time for it to kick in and to understand. But the third-party credibility is key. So you can put anything that you want on your website, but it's not going to place as much value in that. I mean, it does place some value and it's interesting. People will, will game the system sometimes. I've seen like I'm not in the business of generative optimization or geo or whatever they're calling it now. But I think people are realizing like you could put an article on your website and you could say like, it's like, say you're in the, say you're in a, in the plumbing business, you could put like the top plumbers and you list yourself. Like AI might actually pick that up and say like, whatever the name of your business is, one of the top 10 plumbers in your town, like, 'cause it found that article. So people are finding ways and I think it'll—

Mm-hmm.

It'll evolve where we'll realize that like, okay, that's actually coming from this business. How much credibility do we want to put into that? But maybe someday I'll get into that as a service. But right now I'm focused on the podcasting, podcast guesting.

So tell us more.

So you founded Wonderfish and share a little bit maybe what you would like to share about What it is, what is your mission and purpose, and how we can support you?

Absolutely. Thank you. So Wonderfish is a full-service podcast booking agency. So what I mean by that is right now, if you were to go on podcasts, there's existing tools that you can use. They're kind of more like DIY tools where you can go and search databases because the problem that I'm solving, the problem that exists is that there's so many podcasts out there. Close to 500,000 active podcasts within the past 30 days, and it becomes very difficult. Like if you wanted to go, and especially if you have a particular niche like like John, who I mentioned with the Engaged Father Project, he wanted to go on parenting show, fatherhood type of shows, and I didn't realize how many shows within that niche there actually are. But if you go on Google, you're not gonna believe it or not. Google will have a tough time. Even ChatGPT will have a tough time finding them because again, 500,000, it's it's it's just a massive amount of content and and shows out there. And there's actually three to four million total podcasts, but only I think there's a stat where only ninety percent or ninety percent of shows don't get past the third episode just because the difficulty. They just stop after the something. Exactly. So what I do is, is we start with identifying first, we have a workshop where we identify what the individual's story is, because we all know how important storytelling is and your message and you're getting clarity around that. And then I go, we go and do the research and we do use AI and different tools to identify the shows. I built an AI, like a proprietary AI agent, but I always say it has to pass The AI test first and then I test last because AI is never perfect. It makes mistakes or finds shows that actually aren't a good fit. So we always read all the descriptions and look at the data and analytics about the reach, the engagement. So it's, we're looking at the topical relevance and then the reach and engagement. And then we start doing, we actually write the pitch, we do the pitching. And then we do a lot of preparation work going into the show. So that's a lot of That's, that's kind of where the drop-off is. If you use a lot of podcast booking agencies, just get you booked and then just kind of leave it at that. I mean, there's some that have different types of services. And then if you use like a, like a PodMatch or PodPitch, like they're not helping you with like actually preparing for the shows. And then the last part is the content creation, which we do that as well, like giving you video clips to share and content that you can share across social. So it's kind of fueling Your content engine is the way I would describe it. So it's kind of a systematic approach where you have ongoing content, because if you were to go and just do one show, it's not really gonna move the needle, especially when we're thinking about this AI world and just creating content that's really shifting the needle, shifting the whole environment of the way that you're being perceived. It's a, it's a, it's a, has a compounding effect, right? It's not like a one-time thing that you can do. So we created this system where you have the ability, and most of our clients are founders, CEO types that really want to drive their personal brand. They're extremely busy. They don't have a lot of time to do a lot of this backend work. So we take that off their plate where they just show up, they review the information like, is this a show that I want to go on? And then if it is, then we just give them the documents to prepare for it and then we help them with the content creation. So it's kind of like an end-to-end service where we do everything for them and then it helps them with their visibility and their whole presence and authority within their space.

Okay, so you are working with people who want to be guests. So your client, ideal client, I guess, Is that people found—

Yes. So founders, founders and CEOs tend to be our ideal customer, although I'm starting to talk to some people that are just more so like they might be like a VP of marketing or PR that they might be supporting like their, their founders or CEOs. But I'm also thinking about other executives that want to build up their personal brand. I just right now I'm focused in on the CEOs and founders because You know, I'm smaller right now. I have about seven. I think I just hit eight clients, and so I'm just trying to focus in on a niche. And the founders and CEO types are the types of people that they're busy, they they're successful, and and they have you know enough of a of a budget to put towards doing something like this, but they don't have time. So that's that's the problem that. I'm solving for them is like it's just a time. It's a time suck to do all the research and all the back and forth, the calendar booking coordination. I mean, there's a lot that goes into it, and so that that's that's who I'm supporting, and it's people that really need to have their voice out there in in the market because people at the end of the day they buy from people that they trust and like like trust and likability are just so key, and what other way to do that than getting out there, being yourself, telling your story. And that to me is what it's all about, really.

And as you're saying this, I'm just thinking, aren't we entering an era or an age of— you talked about being laid off. I've been laid off. I mean, I know so many people who have been laid off from corporate America. And I think we are entering an era of a huge shift where you— of entrepreneurship in a way that the old model of giving your time away from a salary and just going and working for somebody, I think it's shifting. It's gonna shift. And that you will be becoming your own economy. And doesn't that include building an, I guess you call it a community audience, however you want to call it?

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's fascinating to think about. I mean, I know from my own personal experience that working for a big company, I mean, we weren't the biggest, but I think at the time when I was working at Forbes, it might've been like 400 to 500 employees. So it's like mid-sized.

But everybody knows about it.

Yeah, it has a big brand, I think, right? So not like a massive company, but a pretty massive brand. But I think that what I realized, I think, because I was on the creative side and that was my superpower, was the ability to come up with ideas. But I think now with AI, that's— it hasn't replaced the ability to come up with— like, I do think you still need humans, you need to to operate AI. And but you can use— I think what AI has done is it's basically sped up the time it takes to come up with ideas or the speed to creativity. And because of that, I think you need less people to do that sort of job. And I've found that like Forbes, these companies, like they're still hiring, but I think now they can probably pay less because the skill set required is not the same because you can— because you have the power of AI to help you and to bolster what you're doing. So yeah, it's interesting. I'd have to do a little bit more research to see how things are shifting. Like, is— that's a good question, a good point. Like, maybe we are going to be shifting more towards like people are more entrepreneurs or, you know, more, more so like using AI as their employees. And yeah, I, I don't know. I'd, I'd have to look into that, but I don't know if you, how much you've seen about that, but—

This is just like, it's not past focused or data, or this is what I see. Like, yeah, like an anecdotal sort of like a knowing, like, um, yeah, like an observation. Like, yeah, data.

Yeah.

Or science back.

But it makes sense, I think.

And I also see it at the intersection of there's this pull. So many people are relieved to be laid off. They were almost like, they can't free themselves themselves.

They can't break away. So that's a great— yeah, sorry. That's a great point because I can relate to that a little, a lot actually, because I couldn't leave Forbes. Number one, You know, my wife probably would have killed me because, like, you have a great job. What are you doing? You're getting paid, all that stuff. But again, it was a great brand. There were so many things that I liked about it, but there were things that I do feel like were holding me back. And because, you know, when you're working for a corporation, there's things that— there's, there was different initiatives or different things that I wanted to do or things that I thought we could have done better. And I didn't have— I was kind of like just a middle manager that didn't really have enough Say maybe, but like I had some some say in certain instances, but you don't have total control at all, right? And I think that the other thing that I think about from a career perspective is when you're doing the same role for a long time, there's a lot of negatives to that because you know you can only grow so much in one role. Like you kind of you hit a. cap at some point. And I think I needed to do something different, really, and just have a different, a new challenge, a new everything. And but I, again, like, I couldn't, I couldn't just leave because the risk was too high.

Yeah.

But then once I was laid off, when I thought about going back to the corporate world, I actually flipped. When I was thinking about the risk of going back, I was thinking that It was actually the same, if not higher, to go back and work for someone, you know, in this environment where it's like starting a new job, like I can just be let go at any point. So while it was risky to start my own thing, I was thinking about it as like, okay, there's, there's a lot of risk involved, but at the same time, like I'm building something for myself that doesn't have a cap and that I could eventually maybe even pass it on to my kids. Who knows? So. I just thought about it as like an unlimited opportunity that like I had to take advantage of at that time.

Have you ever read The Alchemist?

The Optimist? No.

No, The Alchemist, like Paulo Coelho.

The Alchemist. No, is it good?

It's essentially, you know, one of those whatever book that's sold all over, you know, copies, you know, for over 2 decades. But it's essentially the story of a shepherd boy pursuing his personal legend. So when you talked about the risk, yeah, I think the deepest risk on people's hearts and souls is betraying your own essence and spending your life force building somebody else's ship.

That's, that's powerful. Yeah, I'll have to read that book.

The biggest regret of the dying, maybe you've heard also of that, but it's like when you're on your deathbed is looking back and wondering, what if?

Yeah, I think I actually posted about that. One of my, one of my LinkedIn posts is that, that's true. I think I saw a stat that said they did like a— I think it was like a Cornell study or something that said that people, they, they asked people on their deathbed and that was their biggest regret wasn't, wasn't mistakes or things that they did. It was things that they didn't do. Yeah, that's fascinating.

And it ties into your, uh, this, the conversation we talked about the kids. That is the biggest modeling, right, is living your own life, not betraying yourself. And you know, another thing I wanted to commend you for is that you talk about your wife. I love it.

She's amazing. I, I, I am so lucky. She actually— see that sign behind me, the Wonderfish signs? So when I, when I Launched Wonderfish. At first, I kind of soft launched it. Like I had the website, and I was like for a while still applying for jobs. And she supported me, but I wasn't really supporting myself. I wasn't bought in to myself as an entrepreneur. I wasn't sure was that it was what I really wanted to do. I was nervous. You know, it was like that's why I was still applying for jobs. And there was a point in time where she was the one. Who just kind of kicked me in the butt and said, "You got to do this. Build a bit. You know, build the business was the exact words that she used. She put it in a text because she just knew. I think that like it was what it was what I really it was like my true calling. What I really needed and wanted to do, but I just was kind of holding myself back. And then a couple weeks later, she showed up and she had this sign and. I was floored because that to me was a literal and figurative— it was metaphorical. She gave me a sign that I had her support, and now I have an actual sign that I can use behind me. And it's made from what she ordered from a woman called House of Oak, who she sells on Instagram and on her website. So having her support has been everything. And, you know, I'm like very thankful for her. But you need a, you need a woman by your side. I mean, I had another business one time, but it was a side hustle. It was, I was making ketchup and it was called Farmer Jim's. But she, I always noticed like when I, whenever I had a question or something about like, she was the one who told me like name it Farmer Jim's. Like she came up with that. But she, she has a very good instinctual way about her where she kind of like, she's not in the business world, but she's in the— she does benefits. She's not like, you know, an entrepreneur or anything, but she has a good instinct. So I'll go to her for different things sometimes. It's cool.

I love it. And, you know, it's like you touch upon something that we need somebody to believe in us, especially Yeah. In the hardest moments, we need somebody who's close to see us, to get us through, to kind of give us that permission or see us, witness us.

At the times where we don't believe in ourselves, because that's going to happen. Like, you know, you're going to have doubts and you have to kind of put yourself out there. But if you don't have people around you that are kind of supporting you, because it could be extremely challenging to do that. So yeah, it takes a huge battle.

Yeah, it can take— yeah, one person. That is so beautiful. Thank you for sharing that. Is there anything that you want to share from your Forbes days or anything else on your journey that was pivotal or that you really left a mark or that you would love to share?

Yeah, I've been thinking about lately I was going back. I was actually going back to myself as a kid, and I was thinking about my kids now today or our kids in general. I feel like the the ability to create content is at an all-time high, like whether it's video content, audio content. And when you look a lot a lot of times people will look down on you know TikTok world or Instagram, and it's bad for kids. But I like to think about the positive effects of like the ability to be creative and to create content. And so sometimes I'll often, I'll often encourage my kids to make videos or I'll even be in some of their silly videos sometimes, like dancing. And my wife would be like, what the heck are you doing? But I remember exactly, I remember being a kid and we didn't have like, we didn't even have a video camera. We had to borrow one from like one year for Christmas. We borrowed one of my dad's friend's video cameras and I loved it. I walked around. I was making videos and my parents were like, put that away. Like, you're going to use the battery. I'm like, I'm like, this is fun. Like, I was making like stupid trick videos and, and I used to have like a Panasonic cassette recorder and I used to sit in my room and one time I had my friend join me and I would just record myself talking like, like a kind of like a podcast, but like telling about what I did that day or what I got for— I remember one episode was like what I got for Easter. But nowadays, like that ability to do that and to create content, the— it's kind of like a democratization of content creation is very powerful. But at the same time, it presents a challenge because you have so much more content out there. So that's why you need people. It's kind of hopefully, hopefully where I come in to help you with your strategy and your storytelling and to hone it all in and find your voice because I'm on that journey myself. Because when I was at Forbes, I didn't necessarily have to have much of a voice because, you know, I was in the machine of Forbes and we had this big brand behind us. But now, like, when I'm off on my own, I have to go out there, I have to tell stories. So I'm going through it myself and I'm also helping people find their voice, which has become my passion. So.

I love it. I mean, it's a big service and you've learned a lot from obviously a powerful brand that had created a big platform. So, you know, you're— I think you're doing a big service to the world and to whoever you're working with. And about the content, um, the democratization, 100%. There's good— you can use it for good or bad, right?

Sure, exactly.

My son, like, it's totally encouraging creativity. He has started making videos and he's figured out how to make money. And I don't have to even tell him, do this, like clean the room. You know how you have to remind them of the chores? Do this like 100 times. I don't have to do that one time because it's coming from his own will.

Yeah. And he's incentivized because he can see that there's money that can actually come in too. So there's an incentive there too. But that's amazing. Good for him.

I love that. Yeah. So it opens up. this gateway of possibilities, you know, that, that they don't have to work at McDonald's, right? They don't have to work bagging the groceries. They can literally, like in Aladdin, a whole new world. You have a magic wand or a magic carpet. It's like, just, it's out there. It's available, right? If you open your eyes.

I love that. That's beautiful.

Is there anything else that before we wrap up that you'd like to share? And I also would love for you to talk about how can people find you, connect with you? Sure.

Well, I'm definitely— my biggest platform is LinkedIn. I am on X, but I don't use it a lot. I'm actually locked out on my phone. It's just like there's such a weird security thing. But I love LinkedIn and I'm starting to do Substack. So I have a Substack blog, if you want to call it whatever. But I— my website is wonderfish.xyz. Wonderfish.com was taken, unfortunately, but wonderfish.xyz. And you can go on there. I have a, like an assessment, an authority index tool where you can answer 15 questions. It takes a couple of minutes and it will actually tell you what your score is in terms of your, your online digital authority. So people can go and do that. You could book a call if you wanted to with me, if you wanted to talk to me, that's easy to do on my website. But I love, like I said, LinkedIn. I'm doing LinkedIn Lives more, so I'm trying to do like one per week. So follow me and, you know, check me out on LinkedIn.

Awesome. And all of those links will be available in the show notes so you can just click on it and navigate it to find James easily. James, what would you say to somebody maybe who's been laid off, or maybe somebody who's still working, but they just feel like there must be something more? There's a disconnect. They feel like the external boxes are checking, but the internal boxes are being left emptier and emptier. So they're seeking and kind of trying to figure out what's next. What would you say?

Yeah, that's a great— so I would say to them, think about risk. Think about what the risk is if they were to make the decision to not do so, to stay and to do something that's not really fulfilling them, right? Because obviously there's a big risk to go off in the world and do whatever whatever it is that they want to do. But you also do have to think about like, what if you don't? What if you stay? What if you do something that you're not happy about? And not that I wasn't happy at Forbes, but I think that it wasn't my calling as far as my passion. Like right now I feel like I'm in a better spot where I can go off and I can support other people one-on-one and I can be my own, be my own brand in a way. And that's what I find so fascinating. Like you can, even if, even if you are at a corporate, in a corporate position, I would say to build your brand because you don't want, like you want to have something that you can always have in your back pocket. And there's a lot of people I've seen. Dave Gerhard is a good guy in the, in the marketing space. Like he built this brand, it's called Exit 5 and it's like a whole marketing community, but he did it on the side for a long time. So Build something up on the side and then you can, you know, always go off and do it on your own. But that would be my best advice or just go all in like I did. If you have the ability to do that, go all in.

And how did you figure out that it will be this platform, this service? Like, because a lot what I see is holding people back Is that they don't know what is it. What they know that they don't care to do, like if they, if they think they had a choice, they probably would not care to do most of what they're doing today, tomorrow. They don't know what that next thing looks like. What is it? How did you figure it out?

To me, it was a, it was a trial and error thing because it might— so Wonderfish actually evolved. Initially, I was thinking about what I like And what, like in the world of marketing, and I was tying it to like what my skill sets are. And I had this idea initially that I wanted to do product placement because I always, like in movies and Hollywood, I always thought that was just really cool. Like there's a story and I read the book from the author of Vans or the, sorry, the founder of Vans, the shoe company. They were in the movie Fast Times at Ridgewood High, like in the '80s. And that skyrocketed because people saw— I think it was Sean Penn was wearing the Vans. And then people wanted to buy them. And it just took off. I always thought that was really cool. So I actually started Wonder Fish trying to do product placement. But it was such a challenge because I didn't have any relationships with set designers or people in Hollywood. And I was trying to figure it out. And it was like— just to be honest, the time it would take for me to build that—

Yeah.

It wasn't reasonable or feasible for just for my based off my own experience that I had. So then I started to think about okay what what what can I do? And at Forbes, one of the things that I was doing was we we did pitch decks for all of our advertisers when when we brought on new advertisers. So I was really good at creating sales materials and sales presentations. So I started doing that for companies. But it was one of those things where I couldn't really con I convinced a couple people to buy in. But it was one of those things that It wasn't an easy offer or something that they could just say like, that's a no-brainer. So I kept trying to figure out like, what is my offer? What is my offer? And I noticed that a lot of people wanted press coverage and they saw that I worked for Forbes and I saw that there was a need, especially amongst smaller founders, because I tend to work with people that are between like 10 and 50 or maybe 200 max employees, but there's smaller companies that don't understand how to get covered like how to get in Forbes or how to get an article about or get quoted in a magazine or whatever. So then I started doing that, but I wanted something that was, like I said, systemized where if I were to go and pitch you to a journalist, just takes so much time. You have to have a really good story. You have to— whereas getting on podcasts, because there's so many podcasts and there's such a big opportunity, I saw it as like, In a way, there are other people doing this or other agencies, but it's for the most part kind of untapped. So find something where there's a gap, there's a problem obviously that needs to be solved. Like the problem that I'm solving is like there's so many podcasts, people don't know where to start and how to get on them. And then do something where you can create a system, like an organized methodology that could be repeated over and over. And that's what I've done. And it uses AI, it uses different different automations on the backend that I've been working on. I use HubSpot as my sort of source of truth for all of my data. And, you know, so it's the process orientation is important, but finding something where there's a gap or there's a need. And that's, I think, what that is, what I'm doing. And that's what the most, I think, successful people do is Another thing too is like, you look at a lot of the— not every company does this, but a lot of the companies that find success is they find something that took hours to do and they narrow it, they shrink it down like using technology. And that's another thing that I'm doing with Wonderfish because it takes hours to do the research and to do the pitching and I'm making it more efficient.

Yeah, beautiful.

Yeah, I can say It was my experience too. Like, when I started thinking about it, it's taken iterations and it's evolved. So it will be— I mean, I think it's 110% a part of that. You will— whatever you set out as an initial concept, it's gonna change, evolve, however you want to call it. It might change drastically.

100%. And it, it has changed a lot. And initially I was using an off-the-shelf tool called Podpitch, and then I built my own tool. And I still sometimes use a tool called Podmatch because Podmatch, the way that Podmatch works, not to go like in the weeds on it, but the podcast hosts actually log in and like they're on the platform, whereas most other platforms, like you're just getting the data and then you have to email them. And so I do supplement my own tool with Podmatch because the hosts are literally like They're there, so why not reach them where they are? But I think my service will evolve. I like to think about my service as like a, it's a tech-enabled service. So it's like done for you, completely end-to-end service, but I use technology to enable the platform internally. But eventually it might evolve where I actually give the tools to the customer externally, like give them a login. I think that's where I'm going towards, where they'll have like a client portal where they log in, they can see all the podcasts. So right now a lot of it is done through email where I email them the podcast, but I want to have like a portal that they log into and I'm in the process of building that. But you're right, it's totally going to evolve and change and have different iterations. So that's the beauty of doing your own thing is like you don't have to, you don't have to just stick to one way of doing something. So I think in the corporate world, sometimes people just accept the way that things are done. Like, this is the way we've always done it. And that's the beauty about doing your own thing is like you don't ever have to accept one way of doing something. I'm continuously improving and making it better and enhancing it. And don't get me wrong, like companies certainly can do that depending their level of willingness to do that. But it's a little bit— it's a lot harder because of the bureaucracy and all that on the corporate side. So we move fast, or I move fast and just Keep changing things.

James, thank you so much for being here.

Thank you, Baiba. This has been, I think, my favorite interview so far. So I loved it.

Me too. It was a lot of fun.

What did you think about our conversation with James and what resonated most with you? Direct message me on Instagram. I'm @liveintechnicolor_. And connect with James and follow his journey going forward through the links in the show notes. I think this journey and conversation was a great example of how work really does influence other areas of your life, including your family. And there's really no clear line separating work and life. And definitely I felt it that when you start your own thing, when you're working on creating something, there's less of a line between, you know, when the work hours are on and off. And it kind of, this balance gets even more blurred compared to when you work in corporate, even though in corporate, of course, you can also work and log in. On the evenings and weekends. It is probably more individual and maybe even more cyclical, but my observation has been that when I've been creating my own podcast, teaching the qigong, and also doing other things like writing and also some of the paintings, is that there's really no clear off switch. It is very driven by you. And at the same time, when I do quote unquote work, when I create on weekends, when I do things that support work on the weekends or at night, it feels less like work in a sense. It feels less like this kind of struggle or making yourself to do something that you'd rather not do. I think that is a key difference when you are working in corporate or when you are creating something of your own choosing, something that is emanating and flowing out from you. Let me know where you are on your journey of finding your purpose and creating a life more and more on your own terms that makes you feel more alive and more joyful. I'd love to hear from you about that as well. And I hope you have a wonderful Memorial Day weekend. I hope you get to do something fun. Or relaxing, or whatever it is that your heart desires. Sending you lots of love.