Pushing Creative Limits with James Colistra

Welcome to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast.

I'm your host, Mari Reesberg.

Over the past several years, I've combined my degrees in acting and somatic psychology to share my sustaining creativity techniques with performers. And now I've decided to share it with a bigger audience that includes you.

I believe we are all creative, and this podcast is all about that.

I'll be interviewing people from all backgrounds, ages, and creativity experiences to share just how creative we all are. Today I'll be chatting with James Colistra, founder of Wonder Fish. Please enjoy James Colistra. Welcome to the Sustaining Creativity Podcast. Today I'm chatting with James Colistra, founder of Wonderfish, a full-service podcast booking agency. Welcome to the podcast.

Mari, it's awesome to be here. Thank you.

I am thrilled that you are joining me today to chat about creativity and how you got to where you are and the creativity that goes into the work you do every day. But before we jump there, why don't you share a little bit about who you are, And what it is you do.

I'd love to. So my name is James Colistra. As you said, I'm the founder of Wonderfish. And what Wonderfish is, it is a full-service, end-to-end booking agency. Although I like to say we're software-powered or AI-powered, just like a lot of companies are kind of putting that out in the world because you kind of have to be, right? You have to use technology to your advantage. But we are an agency, meaning we provide a service. So Our clients tend to be CEOs, founders, or coaches, consultants, authors that need visibility awareness. They need to get out in the world, share their stories and their messages. And we are focusing right now on podcasts as the medium, the placements, because I think it's just such a great growing opportunity. And that's what I do. So I created a whole system that moves people through that whole process from end to end. But my background, so I come from the media space. space from the media publisher side. So I'll go a little bit backwards if that's okay into like my full career, how I got into media. But most recently I was at Forbes for about 10, close to 10 years, actually 9. I think it was like 9 years and 10 months or something like that. And, but I'll go, I'll start from the beginning if that's all right. And, and this kind of aligns with the whole theme of the show, which is creativity, which is what really drew me to the world of marketing and advertising. That's, that's what I was doing at Forbes and at The Economist and a few other publishers. But I was on the media, I was on the marketing side for these platforms that basically pitched the platforms to all of our advertisers. And we created a lot of custom content research. Saw leadership research and then some advertising that it all worked together, you know, as like an integrated program. So it was called integrated marketing. But the whole reason I wanted to get into marketing and advertising is because I always did consider myself to be creative. I loved coming up with ideas and writing. And I think it was in 11th or 12th grade, I read a book called Hey Whipple, Squeeze This by Luke Sullivan, which he's an advertising copywriter. He's one of those iconic copywriters that worked on a lot of really cool campaigns. And so I was reading this book and I just was fascinated, you know, kind of by the glitz and glamour a little bit of like being able to sit in your office and, you know, have a piece of paper and a pencil and write down ideas. And then it turns into this multimillion-dollar ad campaign. I just thought that was so cool. Obviously there's a whole lot of Other things, you know, the especially if you're on the ad agency side, it's you know just kind of cutthroat. I've since learned, you know, working in that world, just knowing that it's it's a big difference between what I was doing on the media publisher side. Although we had a lot of deadlines, it wasn't the same as an ad agency. But long story short, I majored in advertising, I minored in marketing, and then I was really lucky because I had a lot of good internships. In college and I was able to see. So I actually studied abroad in New Zealand at the University of Auckland and I just walked into this ad agency there. It was Y&R, Young Rubicam, but they go by Y&R. And I walked in and the name of the creative director, his name was Vaughn Davis, really cool guy. They didn't have any sort of ad or like opportunity that they advertised for an internship, but I just, Managed to convince him that I needed an internship, and I and I was able to work there for like that whole semester when I was studying abroad. And it was such a cool, fascinating introduction to that world because he took me along. Like I got to go to these ad campaigns, like shoots, whether it be like a commercial shoot for Burger King or we went. They had a lot of Burger King was a client. They had a like a liquor store chain, and you know we did like radio. commercials, and then I was helping him write these ads. Um, I kind of learned that not only did I like the copywriting and the ad, uh, the actual creative work, but I also like the strategy behind it.

Mm-hmm.

So then I came back to United States and I was studying and I did a little bit more research and I found this whole world of, uh, what they call account planning, which is the strategy side of an ad agency. Um, and that, so I ended up getting an internship in that department at a— this was an agency, I went to school in Baltimore, I went to Loyola Maryland, and there was an agency there called Eisner Communications. I don't even think they exist anymore, but they were the biggest one at the time. And so I interned in their account planning department and I loved it. But then when I graduated, I found it was really hard to get into that department at any ad agency 'cause everyone wants to do it. It's so fun, right? It's like the strategy side of things.

Yeah.

So I ended up, I took a job that was a little bit more of like boring media planning, media, More like media buying on. It was actually a newspaper in the newspaper world. So we had like big lots, Dollar General. We were like running all their ads and looking at the zip codes, you know, for for like Bass Pro Shops. They want to reach campers, so we would find all the zip codes where these campers were. It was very much like analytical, a lot of Excel, not like the creative side of what I wanted to be doing.

Yeah.

So what I ended up doing was I went down to Miami Ad School. I studied there for three months. I did their comp. Planning bootcamp, and then I was trying to get a job in New York City, but I was interviewing all these ad agencies and I just landed a job at The Economist. So that's where I ended up. That's how I got on the media side. So I started at The Economist and then I bounced around and ended up at Forbes for, like I said, close to 10 years up until January 2024. And then I was actually laid off from there. And that's how I— that's why I started Wonderfish.

Nice.

Amazing.

Yeah.

So it's kind of a long-winded, uh, explanation of my career, but that's how I ended up here.

That's okay.

I, it, I was, as you were talking, wondering if you were at Forbes in 2017 when they published that article naming creativity as the skill of the future.

Yes, yes. Yeah, I remember that.

Yeah, and that was such a pivotal piece, I think, in general. But for me, stumbling upon it and feeling like, oh, someone like Forbes is backing this. And—

Yeah.

How wonderful that was to see that it's not just the creative arts, but creativity as a skill in corporate America or a, you know, financial institution or something like that, of how important creativity is. So that is very cool.

Absolutely.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, when you think of creativity, what does it mean to you to be creative?

To me, it means pushing the limits to the point where you're not just settling for the first idea. So that was the way that I always really pursued creativity, especially when I was working at Forbes and Our team, it was really our job to come up with ideas and to, we basically ran brainstorms anytime there was a new advertiser that wanted to leverage Forbes, leverage all the different pieces, all the different levers. We had to basically be the quarterback and put it all together and come up with ideas. And there's a great book, I think it was actually in 2018, It's called The Creative Curve by Allen Gannett.

Yes.

I don't know if you've ever read that book.

Oh, yeah.

And he talks a lot about— and I've spoken to him before, he's a great guy. And he talks a lot about how, you know, a great idea sits somewhere between the familiar and the novel, right?

Yeah.

And it's kind of finding that, like, finding that perfect balance or that tension where you kind of have enough of the familiar and enough of the novel. And depending on who's judging the idea, how much, you know, how out there the idea is going to be or how novel and new the concept is going to be, it's going to depend on who's kind of in that, in that position to determine that. But for me, I always tried to like veer a little bit off the familiar, but then the client or the sales rep that I was working with might be like, oh, that's a little too crazy. You know what I mean? What's like hone it back, you know, a little bit.

Yeah.

And so that to me is what creativity is all about, just pushing the boundaries.

Mm-hmm.

Continuing, because, you know, you could go, you could go walk into a brainstorm and you might have an idea that comes up. And if everyone around the table's like, yeah, that's great. Let's, let's do it. Let's run with it. But like, that's sometimes it's like the easy way out.

Mm-hmm.

Because that's what everyone's doing. Like, it might just be, it might just feel like a great idea because it's something that has been done a bunch of times and you've seen it and it feels familiar. And the, mm-hmm. But sometimes you kind of have to push your, your comfort level and come up with something really new and crazy a little bit. And that's what I love. That's the fascinating fun part, but it's finding the balance. You don't want it to be too new and crazy that people are going to reject it.

Right, right. I mean, that, that idea that creativity comes alive at the edge of your comfort zone is— it sounds like that's what you're straddling, really, to expand someone into the next phase or experience or boundary with that comfort of, oh, I know this, I understand what you're talking about, even though it's a new thing. So yeah.

Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. And I love what you say in the beginning of the show. You know, I've listened before and you talk about how everyone is creative. I've always felt that way. I feel like, you know, it's one of those things where you have to practice the skill and continue to push yourself.

Yeah.

And, um, so, you know, some people I feel like are a little bit more creative than others, but it's just because they've embraced it. And, um, but I feel like kids, they're probably more creative than adults in a lot, lot of ways because we, as we grow older, we kind of, um, start to kind of shut ourselves down or other people are shutting us down and we just sort of like put that, you know, box it up, box up that creativity instead of letting it unleash, unleashing it and letting it out. Um, but I think that You know, there's a whole bunch of studies, and I know you studied this a lot more than me in terms of like the psychology behind creativity and the, um, you know, the— I think you, you talked about how you studied, uh, somatic psychology, and that's a whole topic that I love. But the, uh, the concept that, uh, the brain is like elastic, like the neuroplasticity, I think is the term.

Mm-hmm.

Meaning like that allows you to continue to kind of, um, train it and, and develop it and develop that skill. And that's, one of the things that I always prided myself on. I think this age of AI is definitely changing the way that people approach creativity, but I do think there's—

Yeah.

There's some positivity there where it is allowing some people who weren't naturally as creative to push their own boundaries and to kind of like go to AI and be like, hey, can you think of a better idea? And can you, you know, unfortunately for people like me who were really making a living in creativity, I think it, There was some detrimental effects there and partly could be the reason why I was laid off. But that's a whole nother story.

Yeah, I mean, just the whole psychology of creativity. And then when you add in a generative tool, it's that idea, if you don't use it, you lose it. So if we continue to rely on something other than our brain to generate ideas, inspiration, it will over time decrease and diminish. So—

100%. Yeah.

You do have to keep— it is kind of that balance of finding the, the novelty and the new ideas Internally, and then how do they, how do those get enhanced by a tool versus how do they emerge from a tool?

Yeah.

And that's how I try to use it is starting with something and because it's all about the input, right? It's not, if you just go to, if you just go to whether you're using ChatGPT or Claude or whatever, and you just say, hey, I need an idea for this. Um, I feel like the, the Output is, is going to be less. It's not going to be as great as if you were to give it something to work off of and to kind of start somewhere. And so there's a lot of different ways you can use it. But I think that's— I think I have a similar approach that you do. I think so. Yeah, that's important.

It is. Well, I'm so curious. Tell us a little bit about Wonderfish. And I'm so curious because you're working with people and it is this agency. I can only imagine the roadblocks or challenges that you've had to navigate. So tell us, take us on a little journey.

Absolutely. I think the, the hardest part in any business is you wanna systematize and create processes that are repeatable and create efficiencies and things like that. And for someone like me who's a creative person, that's not my natural skillset. I'm not, I don't wake up and say I wanna do project management or I want, you know what I mean? I wanna build a system or whatever. But I've had to train my brain to do that. And even at Forbes, because we were working off, um, RFPs, requests for proposals. So every time something came in from a potential client or advertiser, we had a process that we had to follow because it needed to be repeatable. And, you know, we had to maintain efficiencies, we, all that good stuff. So I, I got, in a way, I think I kind of got good at that, at developing processes and having steps and, you know, SOPs. And so that's one of the things that I've been working on just for the past—

Mm-hmm.

Handful of months because Wonderfish evolved where initially when I launched it, it was more of a, of a marketing agency because again, I have a marketing background and I wasn't quite sure what I was going to offer. And so I had a couple of different offers. One of them was sort of like a, like a workshop that I help people understand storytelling and I help them identify their ideal customer. It was like a lot of marketing stuff. And then I help them with their messaging and their website and their sales materials. But I found that it was really hard just to compete in that as an offer. I needed something that— and also I found that a lot of people were asking about PR and earned media because I was working with a lot of smaller, smaller brands or smaller founders. And that seems to be sort of an unclear— there's a little bit of like a mystery behind how you get press or how you get featured in Forbes. And I just jumped right into that and just started offering that. And so I was doing a little bit more of a broad PR agency work. And then it was not until July of last year, 2025, that I doubled down. I saw podcasts as a great opportunity, great opportunity to create more of a system, a systemized approach that gives people anywhere between, you know, 4, well, 2 to 4 or even 6 podcasts a month.

Hmm.

And I've had clients that have actually done 6 podcasts a month because Getting them 6 articles tends to be a lot harder and it's just not as easy to kind of create this always-on approach, this continuous, consistent approach, because consistency, whether it's in marketing or PR, is always the name of the game, right? If you could have more consistency, you're going to— the content kind of compounds on itself. And that's what I help people with. It's like helping, guiding them through that process, really.

Nice. That's— I, I think what a gift to be able to share with people, because I know the world of podcasting is a daunting— it, it is a daunting world to think of.

Yeah.

How do I get onto something? How do I share this really cool stuff that I have with other people?

Exactly. And that's what my passion is. So, but you're absolutely right that it is daunting because there's I believe 5, at least 500,000 active shows in the past 30 to 60 days. So weeding through all that, there is a big opportunity to use AI, and I have been using AI to help with the research.

Yeah.

But there's always a human in the loop where we're reading the descriptions and not just like using AI and throwing it through, passing it off to the client. But the idea that you mentioned as far as helping people share their stories, that is what makes me happy and tick and basically gets me excited in the morning to do this because I'll share a little bit about the story of when I was laid off because when I was at Forbes, I was always— I tied my identity to the company, to Forbes, for good reason.

Yeah.

I mean, it's a great brand. We had a great team. We had— it was like a sort of like a family atmosphere. Everyone knew everyone. And and I love working there, and I was proud to work there. And and I even noticed that my kids were kind of proud that I worked because as they got older, no now they're ten and thirteen. When I left there, they were eight and eleven. So they they they're at an age where they were like really starting to to appreciate the fact that their dad worked for a known brand because people would met the the teacher would mention it or something, and like it came up in you know pop culture or whatever. Like oh dad, that's where you work. And so there was, you know, sort of a level of pride that I, you know, I worked for a cool brand, at least cool enough that they recognized it. And when I got laid off, that was one of the hardest things was that I was nervous to tell them.

Yeah.

I was sort of afraid that, you know, I was going to let them down. And, you know, I knew at the end of the day that you know, they're always gonna be proud of me and they're gonna be, you know, happy to be my kids and all that. They're not gonna disown me because I was laid off.

Sure.

But I remember when I told my daughter, she was, she was 8 years old. Um, I said to her, you know, I was, I don't remember exactly what I said, but I just told her that I was laid off from Forbes. You know, I'm gonna find another job. And she's the most empathetic, caring person. And I knew she was coming from a place where she wanted to like make me feel better. And she said to me, she she goes, "Dad, Daddy, you're the best. Why would they let? Why would they get rid of you?" And I was like, it kind of like dug at me because I was like, "Oh my God!" Like I felt like I had let her down, and it was a way. It was like I was like, "Come on!" Like so at that point, it was it was it was sort of like a a light switch went off where I decided that I wasn't going to tie my identity to to a corporation, and if I could, I would. Build something on my own, and there was a lot of fear that was holding me back for a while. And for a while, I was applying for jobs while I was building Wonderfish on the side. But eventually, I had the support of my wife, and I went all in on Wonderfish. But this this idea that I wasn't a founder—that that was my that was my biggest false belief that was holding me back because I was around all these founders at Forbes. I saw them telling their story on big the biggest stage in the world for business. You know, going at Forbes events and.

Yeah.

Getting coverage. And I never, I never aligned my own identity with that of being like this successful founder because I was more of an intrapreneur. So it's been a little bit of an evolution where I've had to retrain my brain to say like, oh, you can do this. You're a founder. And it's been a great experience because when you are a founder, when you're the face of a brand or the face of, you know, a company or whatever you want to call it, there's a lot of It's a big challenge because there's a lot on your shoulders. Like, you need to get out there, you need to tell your story, you need to have good messaging. There's a lot that you need to do. And so I've been in this, in this sort of early stages of finding my own voice, but that's what I'm helping other people do. And that's become my passion. Like, I don't— I've kind of told myself I don't need a Forbes name behind me. I have Wonderfish. Like, I'm gonna build that up. As, as best as I can, because it allows me to tell my own or to give people the platform and tell their stories. That's what I love doing.

I love that. I, as a podcast host, I too enjoy that, getting to hear people's stories. And, and I think that's partly the therapist in me as well. I'd love to support others to, to find their voice, whether it's sharing the joys or the pain or the sadness or the excitement and really getting to dig into that. For individuals who are maybe in a similar— finding themselves in a similar place, I know many people are really struggling to find employment and maybe have these ideas of things. Oh, maybe I could do that. Maybe I should try my own thing. What are some pieces that you wish someone would have told you about starting your own endeavor when you were in that process?

I wish someone told me that, that I didn't need to— I mean, I was going to say I don't need to be afraid. I mean, it's okay to be afraid, but fear is one of those things where It's okay to be afraid, but don't let it hold you back. And so I was definitely letting it hold me back. And I, I was sort of comfortable and I was sort of accepting of the fact that, you know, I had this corporate job and, and again, I was like, I was proud of it. But I do think that I was too comfortable to the point where I wasn't pushing my Pushing the limits of growth, and sometimes you know when you're doing something for so long, I was there close to ten years. You kind of just get stuck in one way of doing something, and if if I wasn't laid off, I wouldn't. I probably wouldn't have just quit or left, and I give people a lot of a lot of props and a lot of just it's a it's a really honorable thing to. Because I know there are people that do quit their jobs and bet the farm on an idea and stuff. And I wasn't that guy. I was really lucky that I kind of got a nudge or push out the door a little bit.

Yeah.

Yeah. I would just say, don't let the fear hold you back because your true passion, your true mission is what is really going to drive you. And It's never gonna be easy. I'm still in the building phases and it's, it's one day feels amazing and the next day you feel like, you know, it's 2 steps forward with a step back. Um, but yeah, that's, that's my, uh, overall advice is just, uh, take the dive if you can.

Mm-hmm. Nice. Yeah. Well, for people who are maybe interested in getting into the world of being a guest on podcasts, What is that process? How do they connect with an organization like Wonderfish to, you know, who, who are those people who are stepping into the Wonderfish brand to support them in sharing their, their stories and their voice?

So the people that I tend to work with are my best customers. They're the people that they have expertise. So that's number one, like have some sort of expertise that they've built up through time, but a lot of the times it's bottled up and they aren't really sharing it properly with the world and they don't really know where to start or how to get it out there. And they tend to be individuals that are successful to the point where they're earning enough revenue, but they feel like they are held back a little bit because of the fact that they aren't sharing their expertise and getting their visibility out to the maximum potential. Because if you're in this, in this day of AI, I always like to say like, we're all competing with AI because AI could pretty much do anything. And so you have to have a competitive advantage. I mean, it can do anything to a certain extent, right? There's a lot, there are limitations. The biggest limitation is actually the reason why I think my business is finding success is It can't make human connections and it doesn't have lived experiences. And that's, that's what I feel like is the biggest competitive advantage for the people that I'm helping is, is they're out there, they're telling their stories. And stories are, because they're so rooted in emotion, if you have a really good story, that really helps move the needle because as you studied in your psychology studies, It's not just about reasoning and logic. Emotion is so important and plays such a big role in decision-making. So what I help people with is the idea that they're creating the visibility and trust, and that in time, it might not be tomorrow or next week, in time, it's basically allowing them to have a better seat at the table because they're more known, they're more trusted, and they're more liked. And that's what drives business today, whether you like it or not. You have, people have to like you and they have to, they hear you and hear your story. Um, but they tend to be people that have a decent enough budget that they can afford this because it's not like the cheapest option. There are DIY tools that you could go on and, you know, PodMatch is one of them. And I actually think it's a great tool, but it, Like any of these tools, they take time. So it's the people, the people that I'm working with tend to not have a lot of time because they're so busy. They're found, you know, founder, CEO types of people. So I'm taking all the work off their plate and just adding so much time back to their, either their day or their team's day because their team has a million other things that they're doing. So, Mm-hmm. all people don't really realize all the work that goes behind getting on a podcast because as I mentioned, You have to weed through the 500,000 shows to find the right ones. And that, that's the first step. But then it's also the preparation work that goes into each show and understanding what the questions might be, who the host is, all that great stuff. We take that off your plate. And then we also help with the content. The last piece is the content creation afterwards. So we help with like whether it's video clips or quote cards or content that you can share across social.

That's such a huge support and to take that burden off of someone. My goodness, the amount of time I do all of this for myself as this kind of one-woman show here.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, it is. It's a huge privilege to be able to have that taken off your plate. So you do have more time to do the quote unquote fun things. But it sounds like you really love this and you love the strategy behind it and putting those, that puzzle together for your clients and really making them shine.

Yes. And I, and I've developed a good system where, you know, there are some automations that they're not, it's not like an automated email, for example. It's more of like an automated task that goes to my team and says, okay, this was just booked. Now create the review doc that they need to like review about this. Or the prep doc. Like, so a review doc is the first step when they were reviewing the show. If they decide they want to go on it, then I have a prep doc that goes like more in detail once they're actually confirmed for the for the date, for the interview date. But all these steps are sort of automated that it reminds you know my team oh you got to create this document. So I've taken a lot of the work off of the client's hands, but I've also taken in the system that I've created taken the work off. My team's hands too, to create more of like an efficient process. And you're right, there is a lot of fun behind this, like going and talking to people. That's the fun part if you can get past the fear. And a lot of people, especially people that haven't been on a show before, there's a certain level of fear and intimidation of being able to go and talk to someone publicly. But the more you do it, the better you get. I mean, I'm still improving and The first couple of shows that I went on were absolutely awful. And every time, you know, one of my biggest problems, like I tried, you got to— and everyone has their own sort of quirks or things that they are trying to improve, but try not to ramble, trying to be a little bit tighter, telling, telling better stories. And every time that I do it, I feel like I get a little bit better at that.

Makes sense. It's that flexing of that creative muscle. You got to practice it. Or you lose it.

Exactly.

James, this has been such a treat to get to chat with you about creativity. I have one last question.

What does it feel like in your body to be creative?

Honestly, it feels like being a kid again because that's, that's the fun nature of creativity is you kind of, you feel like you're in touch with your, like we all have a kid deep down inside of us.

Yeah.

And I remember being a kid in my own bedroom. I grew up on this big old farmhouse in upstate New York. There was like corn surrounded by cornfields and barns. And I was lucky because I had all the ability to explore just being a kid, like building hay forts and riding your bike. And you had this open ground. I feel like being a kid, you, that's like the meta— in a metaphorical sense, but also a figurative sense, um, or, or also in a literal, literal sense. you have an open sort of plate or an open, like, a palette of opportunity to be yourself, to be creative. And it's only as we grow older that that gets knocked down. So when I'm creative, I'm kind of like in that bedroom again. I used to record— it was like before podcasts, I would record cassette tapes of just me talking about my life, right?

I love it. Yes.

Nobody, nobody wanted to hear, hear that. And I don't think anyone ever listened to it and listened to these tapes. But being uninhibited, that, that's what I love about creativity. If you can find, um, the happy medium where you're not, you're not restricting yourself, um, that's what it's all about.

I love it. That's so beautiful. Just being uninhibited and sharing the little kid stories that are rambly, that make no sense. That are such a joy to experience and express. So thank you for sharing that piece. And if people want to learn more about Wonderfish and all of the work you have in the world, how could they go about doing that?

So you can go to wonderfish.xyz. That's our website. We have a tool on there where you can take an assessment to see where you stand when it comes to authority and you're, you get like an authority score. And we also have some free tools on there. that can really help you, that shares our framework around how to approach podcast guesting and, and telling your stories. So go to, go to wonderfish.xyz, or you could find me on LinkedIn, James Colistra.

Perfect.

Well, I will put links in show notes so people have easy access. And thank you again for taking the time to join me and talk about creativity. It's been such a treat.

Thank you, Mari. This was awesome.

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