Do Viruses Exist? Dr. Mark Bailey & Autumn McLees Challenge Modern Medicine's Biggest Assumptions

They have speculation, they have hypotheses going on. The virus model was invented before anything was found in nature.

The viral narrative, the germ narrative, is keeping people from actually getting curious about what's going on with their health.

Don't outsource your health. You're the best physician for yourself.

As a chef of 20-plus years, I've always been about taste, but it was becoming a father that made me really start to think about function because I want my kids to thrive and I want to be around long enough to witness it. And it was when my daughter became ill, my wife and I, we struggled to get the right nutrients into her. It was a true wake-up call. That experience is why Pluck was created. So Pluck is a superfood seasoning made with 100% grass-fed beef organ meats blended with organic spices and herbs. The beautiful thing is it doesn't taste like organ meats. It just tastes like the seasoning you're already using, But better, because when you add it, you're adding these bioavailable nutrients that your body can actually use. If you can salt it, you can pluck it. Learn more at eatpluck.com and save 15% off your first order using code EA15. Joining me are Dr. Mark Bailey, who publicly challenged core scientific assumptions behind the pandemic response, and Autumn McLees, who has been vocal about the human, legal, and family family-level consequences of how that response played out. I'm going to go right into the question though for you, Dr. Bailey. I want to start with, uh, when we look back at 2020, what do you think most people still misunderstand about what happened scientifically?

Basically, they had, you know, a couple of narratives that were permitted. One was that this, uh, virus, this coronavirus, came out of nature or somehow got into the local wet market and started spreading amongst people. And of course, the other story, the big secret, which everybody now knows about, which is completely ridiculous and which was being put forward from as early as January 2020, if you look back at the records, was that this was a bioweapon, that somebody was doing gain of function work, that there was nefarious actors, you know, operating in the background. And somehow they created a weapon in a lab that either intentionally or accidentally spread out into the population and went around the world. And then of course the story was, was that the race was on to create a vaccine for this new disease. Because, you know, people didn't really go along with it, they had to introduce various legal measures, or you might say illegal looking back at them, but You know, people were forced to wear face masks. They were forced to be in isolation. Whole countries were locked down, widespread economic ruin in most countries around the world. And of course, by late 2020, early 2021, they had their so-called vaccine available and that was rolled out to the world. And apparently, according to the official narrative, that's saved a whole lot of people. Now, that is the story, I guess, uh, people who have followed the mainstream media would believe, or anyone looking up a source such as Wikipedia, uh, might find, uh, believable. But to those of us who actually looked at the science and studied exactly what was going on, uh, that was not the story.

When I heard you speak at Wise Traditions, You spoke about that viruses don't actually exist. Did I understand that correctly?

Yeah, you did. I could, I could word it slightly differently to be accurate. And what we claim along with other virology critics is that there's no scientific evidence for viruses. They remain a hypothesis as they did in the late 1800s. And how I explain it to people is that the virus model was invented, hypothesized before anything was found in nature of the sort, you know. So this is quite different than the study of bacteria or fungal cells because those things were found in nature first. So scientists went out, they took samples from humans, animals, plants, the soil, et cetera, and put them under the microscope and they found microbes such as bacteria and fungal cells. That did not happen with viruses and has not happened to this very moment we're here and now. It has never happened. Nobody has gone out. taken a blood sample or a soil sample or an air sample and found anything that would meet the definition of a virus. And coming back to 2020, that is what the event, the COVID event, is what woke up us and then millions of people to the absolute fraud of this virus model because The first thing that happened in 2020, my wife had, Sam had a YouTube channel that she'd just started and people flooded her with questions about the so-called situation coming out of Wuhan. And Sam asked me to look at the papers, the scientific papers that were available and the documents from the WHO. And within a few weeks of studying them, I came back to Sam and I said, They don't have evidence. They have speculation. They have hypotheses going on. They don't have anything, any paper, scientific paper that says that they have a virus. For us, that was the start of looking into virology because then we found out that this is not only to do with the COVID situation, but this is HIV, chickenpox. measles, hepatitis, because all of these so-called viruses had the same problem when we looked up the evidence. There was no evidence. That was the problem. They remain hypotheses. And if you actually adhere to the scientific method, the only reasonable conclusion is that there is no evidence for the existence of any of them.

I mean, as you probably have already experienced over these last years, But even in this moment, it's just so hard to wrap my brain around because my whole life I've been told there's viruses. But I think this is a good point for you to come in on them because this information that Dr. Mark wrote about and explored actually directly later involved you.

Yeah. So I was mysteriously diagnosed with this obscure Diagnosis of hepatitis C about, uh, 4 and a half years ago. It was already a very out-of-left-field diagnosis. Uh, imagine this, James. Let's say you were labeled with a disease that is, is mostly associated for druggies, but yet you've never done a drug in your life. You've never even been drunk before. And you leave, you live a clean lifestyle. This was my situation. So it very much came with, um, this curiosity of like, how in the world did I get this? Mind you, I was still believing the virus narrative at the time. And with this diagnosis, just like many viruses out there that people get labeled with, there can be a lot of doom and gloom and hopelessness. This has a death sentence if you don't take their $80,000 medication. They say it destroys your liver. But yet there was so many inconsistencies that I kept finding when I would research. You know, things like your liver could be completely fine and you would still be labeled with this virus. Or maybe your liver wasn't fine and there was something going on. And the test picked up on something. There's so much to delve into, but thankfully, uh, I crossed paths with Dr. Mark and Sam Bailey. I read Dr. Sam Bailey, which is Mark's wife, uh, her Virus Mania book. I invited her and Dr. Mark on the podcast, which I have a podcast, uh, thanks to this diagnosis actually. And I started to learn and actually research and see for myself. There is no isolated virus for hepatitis C. I could have accepted that and said, okay, like I'm likely gonna die unless I take your medication. Medications are not always 100%. The medication comes with a risk of death. So I look like I'm pretty doomed no matter which way you look at this, right? And so thankfully I came upon their work and, um, Realized the reality of my circumstances, that while yes, in my case, there does seem to be something going on with my liver and that takes stewardship on my part, getting curious, looking at where I need to change my life, but there is no floating virus in my, in my blood. That is freeing. And that is something that many people need to hear. They need to understand the truth behind the viral narrative.

And is it specifically the viral narrative or is it diagnoses in general?

Autumn's story is just, this is common, of course. And this has happened to hundreds of millions of people around the world, not necessarily with hepatitis C in quotes, but also with all of these other entities, these so-called virus diseases or viral diseases. Now, this is what I thought. When I was trained as a doctor, and this is what Autumn thought when in 2021 she had a whole lot of tests done and they came back and they said, we've found hepatitis C. Both from a doctor's perspective and from the patient's perspective, we thought that they meant that they'd found a virus inside Autumn. And then when we actually looked at pivotal papers, we found out that this was not the case at all. And there's a perfectly good explanation as to why the tests are positive, but there is no virus. The tests that they're using, and this is, you know, the same for COVID-19 as well, these are what we call molecular detection tests. So people are familiar with these now because the PCR has become world famous and the rapid antigen tests or lateral flow tests as they're known in some places. have become world famous. And antibodies as well, we'd include those because they're very important for the mainstream diagnosis of hepatitis. So they don't find any virus. So when they took Autumn's blood, they didn't put it under the microscope and tell her, oh my goodness, we've found viruses everywhere. What they did was they did antibody tests. Now these are just tests, we call them in vitro, so they're outside of the body. They do them in a lab. And you're just looking for proteins, uh, various types of proteins, or more specifically proteins that react with one another in a test tube and they put markers on them. And the other thing they look at is PCR. So as everybody will know after the COVID era, this is just a way of magnifying genetic material to make it detectable in the test. So this is how they're making these diagnoses. They are going around, um, taking samples from people, doing PCR, doing antibodies, uh, doing, uh, protein detection tests. And then they're telling the person, this is the diagnosis that you've got. Now, the problem with it is, is that those tests were all made without the presence of a virus at all. So you don't need the virus. All you need is proteins and genetic sequences, which you find everywhere. We're not saying that you might do a test on Autumn and then you might do one on you, James, and then you might do one on me. And they may show different levels of these proteins or different levels of these genetic markers, you know, whether it's RNA or DNA. But that has nothing to do with viruses. That's just a biological event that happens. Like we produce different amounts of proteins and different amounts of genetic sequences at different times. And they always have to set these tests at a cutoff. As a doctor, when I was in the system, we weren't given the history, let's just say that, of how these tests were developed. So when I used to get an antibody test back, like for hepatitis C, I thought it was yes or no, that either it showed that there were these hepatitis virus proteins or there weren't. Once I started studying this stuff, I realized that these things were just set at a level, at a concentration. And that we all had these proteins. And this wasn't just with hepatitis. This is for things like HIV, Epstein-Barr, all of these so-called viruses. These tests are just set at some artificial level, which suits the diagnostic paradigm that the mainstream system works from. Because people will say to us, well, but how did the test turn positive? You know, and we just say, you don't need a virus. For the test to be positive or negative. You just need an artificial cutoff point. And you also need the pseudoscience where there are certain proteins and genetic sequences, which they say come from viruses, but have never, ever been shown to do so. And of course, yeah, people will understand this from the COVID-19 era, where when we look back at the statistics. The most common, uh, symptom or sign for someone who tested positive with one of those COVID tests was nothing. That they had nothing. So millions of people around the world were doing these tests. They were turning up positive and the person wasn't sick in any way. And of course, then we get all these caveats that they have to introduce. It's just one excuse after the other. So they say, well, that's asymptomatic. In the case of someone like Autumn, this is really important because They say to her, you've got hepatitis C. This is a deadly virus. It may end up killing you. Um, and you need to be on expensive medications for, for quite a while. It's absolutely preposterous because the way that this works is that it's like a marketing funnel, if you like, because it pulls everybody into a diagnosis. And with each diagnosis comes a treatment protocol. So for Autumn, it involves incredibly expensive medications, you know, tens of thousands of dollars worth. of medications. And if they, quote, work, they will tell her, oh, look, we helped get rid of this virus. Now, there's so many problems with this when we look at the research. One is that most people like Autumn just spontaneously, quote, clear the virus, or a lot do anyway, which means that their tests just revert back to negative. But the other thing that happens is that the drugs can affect the antibody and RNA or PCR results. So if someone like Autumn got put on these drugs, they will call them antiviral drugs. That's not what they are. They are anti-metabolite drugs. So they just interfere with normal processes in the body. So if any of us took them, they wouldn't act on an invisible virus. They'd actually just interfere with the very function of our cells and result in suppression of the production of some of these proteins and genetic sequences. So then they tell you, oh, look, we fixed it because we did the test again and now the antibody is not positive, or now we can't detect the RNA at these levels. So, and yeah, I think it's really important for people to think, but why is this going on on such a big scale for decades and decades now? It comes down to money. It comes down to the control that the medical system gets.

For the person that experiences illness and is told that it's a virus, what is it that we're actually experiencing?

Absolutely. It's a case-by-case, uh, consideration. And in this situation we had with COVID-19 in 2020 was that there was no new illness. And I know that some people might claim there is, but if you look at the official definition on the WHO website, and this was used in virtually every country in the world. The official definition of a confirmed COVID case was based on one of these tests that we've just talked about. So PCR or rapid antigen tests. You did not have to have any specific symptoms or signs. This was also known about by June 2020, because the Cochrane Collaboration put together all of the papers that were suitable for the so-called COVID-19 diagnosis. And they said that there was no specific symptoms or signs, none at all. And it's similar to what happened to Autumn. She didn't have to have certain symptoms or signs. She just had to have a positive Hep C test or tests. And that's it. And then they say that's the diagnosis. And then from there, that's how they direct their treatment or tell you what your prognosis might be.

So, so Autumn, when you got this test, were you going in because you had symptoms or just this was a routine test?

No, just a routine, uh, you know, regular labs that you get once a year. Liver enzymes came up high. They further looked into it. Bingo.

For Autumn, one, her liver enzymes were, you know, it wasn't like they were off the charts or anything. They just showed that there was above normal range, you know, markers. And you have to be very careful here because, you know, say 20 years ago, I was a professional athlete and I was doing a lot of endurance training. And my liver enzymes would sometimes be elevated, particularly the AST, which is one of the so-called liver enzymes. The problem is that enzyme's present elsewhere in the body, so it's in the muscles. So there are other reasons why these tests can appear abnormal, even though there's nothing else going on. So yeah, in the case of, um, for Autumn, it was that she was just investigating other health things and she thought, which, um, we've told her now is not a good idea, is to have some blood screening tests because people think, I used to think this too when I was a doctor working in the system. That when you're kind of scratching your head about whether there are things you could do to improve your health, that you go to the lab and have a whole battery of tests done and that they'll show you whether you're healthy or not. And I didn't understand back then that it's a very dangerous paradigm to go into because the medical system, if it runs enough tests on you, it will find what they call abnormal tests. It will lead to interventions and other investigations, and they're not what people think they are. And so these days I really tell people to steer clear of these investigations because they can literally end in a death sentence. And I think, you know, for someone like Autumn who's otherwise really healthy, if she'd have gone on to these medications they were suggesting, she could have gotten incredibly sick and she could, she could have even ended up dead, but it would not have been put down to the treatment. It would have been put down to, oh, well, We looked at her records. She had hepatitis C, and that's a very dangerous virus. So the treatments were often not blamed, and instead they'd just blame a virus and say, oh, well, there was nothing we could do.

How would you explain though what people experience? Because I mean, I can just speak for myself. When I got what, you know, was labeled COVID, it felt different from anything I had previously experienced.

If I can say, um, 'cause Dr. Mark, you'll have lots to say on this as well, but I would highly suggest to go get the book for you and your listeners, Can You Catch a Cold? by Daniel Roitiz. He goes into all the aspects of contagion. You should really have him on the podcast. There was a lot of programming that took place during COVID There's so much behind the belief of when we believe something that things can actually manifest.

Is what you're suggesting that I, that the programming that I was verbally being told that I had heard in different ways, consciously, unconsciously, was that it was different. So thus I programmed it in my own being as different. Is that what you're suggesting?

Yeah. Let's just say that there's something called a nocebo effect where he talks about how people that had cancer, half of them were getting chemo. Half of them were actually just getting saline water due to their belief. Of what they know, that chemo causes these certain side effects, the people that were just getting saline IVs actually had their hair falling out and they had the symptoms that one would get if they were getting chemo. We don't know what was going on during COVID I don't think anybody can truly say, but we do know that there is an aspect to the power of the mind when it comes to contagion. And then there's a million other reasons why we get sick, you know, food, water. emotional health. I mean, so many toxins out there lurking in our food, in our skies, possibly, you know, so I'll pass it over to Dr. Bailey now, but I just wanted to share that.

In my lifetime, I've never seen an event that invokes so much fear in the population. And even people that knew something was wrong were still in a state of terror because they were worried about what the government was going to do to them. And that was very common in New Zealand where we had our We had rules that would change day to day, and people were trying to get ready to leave the country because they didn't know what was going to happen next. And when you get this kind of situation going on, people are far more suggestible to anything. These days, contagion is supposed to mean a germ that's spreading around the population, but all of the scientific studies go against that. And they always have. And what I didn't know as a doctor and what shocked me at the, you know, around January 2020 was when I started looking into these human contagion studies and found out that they had failed and not only failed once or twice, but dozens of times. They even had a common cold unit in England that operated for 40 years. You'd never hear about this stuff because of the massive failure of that unit. to succeed in transmission of even common cold. But if you go back and look at their research, it does give you a lot of information. And this is what Daniel did with Can You Catch a Cold? He looked at a lot of those papers and realized that the power of suggestion was huge. So people's expectations of what would happen if they were brought into contact with, with sick people, et cetera, that was really important. Again, we don't claim to know every mechanism that goes on. What we do is look at the science. And say the hypothesis or the narrative that you've been told and has been promulgated by the medical industry is incorrect. These are not the mechanisms. Say we're talking about someone sneezes in your face. We're not saying there's nothing in that sneeze because we've found that there are prostaglandins and histamines and stuff. So they may actually cause you to have some sort of reaction. Your body may sense it. But we're saying that there's no viruses in there. That is definitely not the mechanism. And when you do get bouts of illness, for us, that is just the body's appropriate reaction to detoxification. So the body has a situation where it needs to get rid of something. And we have these eliminatory mechanisms and they can feel unpleasant, uh, you know, coughing. sneezing, lethargy, vomiting, diarrhea, all these things are just the body's ways of trying to heal itself. But the medical system looks at it in a backwards way and says that, no, these are germs attacking us and therefore we need antibiotics and antivirals and vaccines. And people will say to us, but why? Why does this Why do they keep espousing this narrative? Medico-pharma plus the associated industries around it are simply the biggest. They have become that way and they're incredibly powerful. We saw that in 2020, able to shut down the entire world based on the so-called expert opinions coming out of the medico-pharma system. And these are just ways for corporations to do business. So if we look at the way it's set up, Everything's always funneling towards pharmaceuticals and vaccines. Autumn's case is great because hepatitis, they are constantly looking at ways to monetize it. They're not looking at ways to help people. For instance, you know, we have hepatitis A and B, which now come with vaccines. And they tell everyone that you should have these vaccines. They, you know, they're giving them to kids now. And then with hepatitis C, last time I checked, there were 100 pharmaceuticals in development. Uh, everyone's scrambling to get the latest blockbuster because, you know, these medications are incredibly expensive and huge money spinners. As of 2020, I think they were talking about a hepatitis C vaccine as well. So you can see we have one condition like hepatitis. It is a multi-billion dollar condition for the industry. And that's just one condition. You know, we look at COVID-19, single biggest product in the medico-pharma's history. So Pfizer made, you know, something like $80 or $100 billion US from one product. I mean, if people can't see what the incentives for that model are, you know, it comes down to huge amounts of money, huge amounts of power. huge amounts of control over the population in this false paradigm.

My problem with this is that the viral narrative, the germ narrative is keeping people from actually getting curious about what's going on with their health, what needs to be changed in their lifestyle. And we get to just blame it on the virus or the germ instead of being good stewards of our health. Being mindful of what kind of water we're drinking and our emotional health. And so much of this, it takes the responsibility off of us and it allows us to just take a pill to shut up the symptoms and to carry on in our merry way. And unfortunately, my belief is that the people that are taking the medications, they're getting sicker and sicker. Therefore, they depend upon allopathic medicine even more. Therefore, these situations are taking place in their body, which then they test for different things. Now different proteins are coming up. Now they're testing positive for other things. When in reality, what I've learned is that the body's, when it expresses symptoms, we actually really need to be grateful for that. It's symptoms are not the enemy. They're actually God's beautiful design. In the body, trying to up and overcome something. And so instead of silencing it with a medication, we really need to get curious and look at what's going on. What do we need to change? And how can we be a better steward of our health?

Well, you're definitely speaking the everyday ancestral narrative. I mean, this is what we talk a lot on this podcast about. I think it's important to kind of encapsulate this conversation so that it's not misunderstood is that you're not saying that health episodes don't exist. that people can have influxes of health situations that occur. You're merely saying that the proof that it's a virus and the label of that, and then the healthcare system's reaction and solution to it are fabricated.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I think Autumn's introduced something really important here. This is the reason that, um, my wife Sam and I actually quit allopathic medicine completely, was because, as Autumn says, it's about suppressing symptoms. And symptoms are not disease in the sense that they don't give you a diagnostic label, or they shouldn't. They are just nature's remedy for correcting a situation. And it's actually really dangerous to suppress those reactions and An example would be fever. You know, when you have a young child and they become febrile and they really, they look so miserable and you think, well, I could just give them some Tylenol and within an hour the fever will settle and they'll be feeling much better. You're not doing them a favor because the reason they're febrile is because their body is trying to eliminate something. There's a situation that has gone on where they've been poisoned, whether it's by a medication or something that they've accidentally ingested in their diet or their water source, or they may have just had a buildup in their system for other reasons, like they've been under a lot of stress and that can cause hormonal changes in the body, which can lead to parts of the tissue becoming devitalized and the body just has to have a clean out. So we get to the fever and the body is saying, this is a healing crisis. I need to get well. And the way I'm going to do it is through raising my body temperature. And getting rid of these toxins. But mum and dad come along and they give a medication which suppresses that fever and the body doesn't complete its healing. And then 2 weeks later, there's another fever and they do the same, give the Tylenol, child seems to get better. And they think, well, that was great. Child's much happier. The problem with that is now you've set up a, an even worse situation. for the future because the body's now in a worse state than it would have been in and it cannot complete its healing process. And this is the problem with virtually all of allopathic medicine is that it just suppresses the symptoms. It doesn't encourage the body to complete the healing process. Autumn's example would have been great. If she'd have taken these so-called antiviral medications, she's taking something that just interferes with the Uh, normal function of her liver. It suppresses the normal function. So again, whatever her liver was doing, uh, when it was going through a healing process, it would have been suppressed. It wouldn't have completed its clean out. And then sometime in the future, you know, it might be 15 years later, Autumn gets really sick and goes in and they do a scan and they say, oh, it looks like you've got, um, cancer in your liver. And they say, well, it was because, you know, 15, 20 years ago, we see that you had hepatitis C virus and that's why you've got cancer. No, the, the danger was, was that she wasn't able to allow her body to heal because the allopathic system was simply suppressing things. And in this case, it was suppressing a laboratory result, which is, which is just as silly as suppressing bodily symptoms.

People though still are looking to ground into something. They're still looking to trust in something and whether they should be or not, that their doctor historically is the person they typically feel that they can trust. But in many ways you're saying, well, but the system that the doctor's a part of is not trustworthy. Where do we look for grounding, whether it's inside ourselves or what people should we be looking outside of ourselves for that grounding and for answers? In what you're even admitting is like, well, we don't necessarily know what it is, but it's not this.

I think the most important thing for people to keep in mind is to not outsource your health. You're the best physician for yourself. And this is the, the other scam that the system runs is that they tell you don't do your own research or don't search for anything online, or they'll even actively, uh, do gaslighting where they'll say that, oh yeah, there's these people that dispute viruses or Um, the germ theory, are spreading misinformation, or, you know, they'll make up some story. It's really important for people. The doctor that you see, they don't, uh, know that, you know, the reason they're in the system is because they've been, you know, misinformed. And I was once in there as well. And I was in that system and it took a few years before I realized, you know, when I started to wake up to it, that It was not the place to find health. So if people can keep in mind, it's a medical system, not a health system, it's a medical system, and that they really need to work on, um, doing things for themselves. And James, really it comes down to, it's just those little decisions that people make every day. It's what we eat, what we drink, the relationships we're in. Our spiritual connections, how clean our environments are, all of these factors, which, you know, you don't have to do that much deep research to work out, they're the things that contribute to our overall health.

Yeah. And I would suggest looking up Dr. Sam Bailey's videos. She covers a lot of information on viruses, the science that is hidden in plain sight. You know, when I realized that they're actually, they take my blood, they're actually not looking for a virus. They're just creating a toxic soup. You know, it really brings to light what's taking place in these illnesses and what's taking place behind the scenes, which anyone can go look up and read. So definitely check out that information if anyone is struggling with particularly a viral situation. But I also think we need to be good stewards of our own health. We need to get familiar with the water we're drinking, the food we're eating, etc., because these can be reasons why our health has been derailed. And so many people don't want to do the work. And so unfortunately passing it off to the pharmaceutical industry, which is not 100%, and the drug companies, they're there to make money for their investors. They're not there to look out for our health. So to put all of your faith and all of your eggs in the basket of allopathic medicine, in my opinion, is not a winning scenario for your health at all. It comes back to taking ownership. And sometimes that's hard to do, but I want to encourage those of you listening that it is so worth it. It's not hard. We've got podcasts like yours here today that we're on, that you're educating on how people can be healthier and what they can do. And we're here sharing this mission. That's what it's about.

I know that you and your wife, Dr. Mark, have been persecuted. I mean, you, you've been, you've been, your lives have been threatened. I mean, your life is completely, um, been affected by your views. And, but, but I think it's so important in what we've been sharing today and what you've shared is that you were a part of the system. Like, it's not like you're just some quack who's like, well, I'm just going to come out with these views. It's like, no, no, you, you were following the system and then realized this system wasn't working or that it was broken or that it wasn't consistent or the science didn't make sense. Like, this system, in a sense, Co-created you, the new you, I'm saying, you know what I mean? Like, because it, because of the contrast of what you saw. To me, that is the most credibility anyone can have.

Yeah, exactly, James. And that's why they've particularly gone after my wife, Sam, so hard because she was not only a doctor like me in the system and we both worked in clinical trials as well, you know, testing Pharmaceuticals once upon a time. And she was also a network TV presenter here in New Zealand and one of the favorites, you know, so yeah, so for us to say, well, hang on, yes, we've been trained in conventional medicine and we once made a living out of it to then completely get out of it. It's a huge threat to them. And, but for us, you know, the motivation has been our health and the health of our family. And that has just gone ahead in leaps and bounds. Going into 2020, we thought we had a pretty healthy family and now it's gone to exceptionally high levels. And people say, well, what's the secret? And we say, we have nothing to do with the medical system. Our children don't go to see doctors. And people say, well, you're a doctor. Well, I used to be. I'm not anymore. But our 3 children, none of them go to the doctor. None of them have ever You know, had antibiotics, they don't have vaccines, uh, all of those things, you know, um, that we do now have just brought so many benefits to our family. And now we're sharing that with the rest of the world. So yeah, it's not a narrative that the mainstream system wants to hear. It's, it's a real problem for them.

Please share how, uh, everyone can kind of dig deeper into these topics, how they can search your content.

Yeah, so the best place to go is drsambailey.com, and that's our website where we have hundreds and hundreds of free resources. There's a search bar so people can look up all of the topics where we've covered around 1,000 topics related to health. Everything from really straightforward presentations, Sam will do a 15-minute presentation on a topic, through to technical essays that we've written, um, up to 28,000 words if people want really deep dives into the science.

Yeah. Um, you can find me at autumn.mccleese on Instagram, autumnmccleese.com. Also Know Better, Do Better podcast where you can hear more of, uh, Dr. Bailey and I, actually both Dr. Sam and Dr. Mark. We've had some great conversations and, uh, I keep tabs there occasionally with this, uh, journey that I'm on. In promoting and educating this whole narrative of helping people wake up to what is true.

Excellent. And my last question that I ask everyone on this podcast, if you could wave a magic wand and bring back one ancestral practice, what would it be and why?

Look, James, I think for me it would have to be our food supplies because they've been so meddled with and people just don't understand that a lot of the foods we eat now, whether it's apples or the flour, Um, that you buy at the supermarket has been so depleted. And of course it's nothing, uh, to do with, um, trying to help us. It's to do with, um, satisfying industry. Big food is as bad as big pharma. So yeah, for me it would be bringing back all of those heritage crops and not processing food to the extent that we do, bringing back the old school practices, traditional preserving and curing, et cetera. We do that on a small scale on our 10 acres. with our crops. And, um, in the last year we've been sent, um, heritage, uh, crops as well, which we've started to grow. And so for me, that would be, it would be, yeah, bringing back those, um, old school heritage crops and, um, practices.

I can't disagree with that. I would, uh, say I agree as well. Our health, so much of it starts with what we eat. So absolutely.

Wonderful. Well, thank you both for joining us on Everyday Ancestral, and thank you all for participating as well. I think this was absolutely an episode that embodied curiosity. Autumn mentioned it many times. It is so key that we maintain that curiosity even as we're thrown new narratives or old narratives. Always be curious. Thank you all for joining. Thank you so much for joining me. On Everyday Ancestral, if you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's E A T P L U C K dot com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.