Food IS Medicine: Reject Convenience! Reclaim Your Health, Energy, and Family Table | Ali Miller

Welcome back to Everyday Ancestral. I am your host, James Barry, and this is the podcast where we take the best from the past and we connect it with our modern day. I am very excited about our next guest. I had never actually met Ali, but yet we somehow had missed meeting each other at events throughout the years. But I was really pleasantly surprised by this episode. She lays down some real gold. Allie is a powerhouse in functional medicine, and she's the author of The Anti-Anxiety Diet. We dive into food as medicine, stress, gut health, and really how to take back control of your body. I really think you're going to enjoy this episode. Please enjoy Allie Miller. I'd love to start by just asking, like, what does food as medicine really look like for you in a daily life, both as a clinician and as a mom?

The way I describe food as medicine is like a double-edged sword. I find that it is equally important to focus on the removal of those chemical additives, of those pro-inflammatory foods, of those gut irritants or hormone-disrupting compounds. And everyone listening is going to be at their own place in their continuum of as they go on their wellness journey, more and more and more starts to kind of shed in that space. But then I believe equally there's the abundance swing on the other end of the spectrum. And this is where we're looking at getting a variety of cuts of animal following that snout-to-tail philosophy. So we're getting the nutrient density of organs and the glycine in our slow-cooked meats and in our connective tissue for GABA, for brain function, let's say, or getting a variety of phyto compounds and anti-inflammatory antioxidants in the diet. So I believe both in the idea of like, these are the things that we are looking at proactive prescriptions based on the individual. And then these are the irritants that we really want to limit. And based on the area of focus, if we're talking about adrenal insufficiency or leaky gut or dysbiosis, based on the shifts of the pathology or the infection or the disease progress, as well as the healing of the body, Some of those might come back in, but maybe not as frequent of flyers, or we may break up with some of those particular foods. And at least I would say the food-like substances need to go completely. And I think that's, you know, the really crux of food as medicine is you can't follow a food as medicine lifestyle if you're not eating whole real foods to begin with. So, we have to first be able to confidently identify, is this a whole real food? Is this God food? Is this something that— was growing, had a mother, or is this a chemical shitstorm or a processed product that was made by a food scientist to manipulate our satiety, create addictivity, create excitotoxins in the brain or inflammation in the body?

Oh, such good points. I went from the West Coast to the East Coast a couple years ago and I drove across. And so I feel like I got to see a lot of a very specific part of the US. And I would go into communities where the local grocery store was like a 7-Eleven, you know what I mean? It was like all convenience foods, very little fresh food, very little like options in terms of if you are aware of what foods to not eat. There weren't a lot of options other than kind of mainstream stuff. And I'm very aware that we all are trying to do the best we can. And we're only able to do what we know. So if you're in a community where you're not getting exposed to that stuff, then how do you know what to change?

I'll answer that in some sense, but I feel that this can be sometimes politicized and utilized to disempower lower-income populations and inner-city areas where there are food deserts. This idea of, well, this is too pure of a concept and this wouldn't be accessible for these populations. And I think honestly, the reason that that is, is that we have unfortunately lost our sovereignty of preparing food in the household. You know, if we look 50 years ago, that was not an issue anywhere because we were not sold that convenience is superior to being connected with your food system. We had victory gardens. It didn't matter the income of the individual. In fact, the more lower income, the more likelihood they were connected to their food system. And we're just seeing actually the full opposition today. And we're seeing this reliability on, if we're dealing with SNAP or food stamps, where we're subsidizing soda still, that's being discussed now, but we're subsidizing soda still. Well, now we are also governmentally funding Ozempic, GLP-1 injectable weight loss drugs for 8 to 12-year-old children. And so we're creating these perpetual, I hate to say it, but almost like a handicap, if you will, or, you know, ball and chain type of relationship. When we disempower and say access is limited, I just like to tread lightly on that because of that reason. So I think that yes, there are areas where we've lost sight of produce. There's a lot of lovely initiatives that we're starting to see finally ground up. I used to work in Houston in the 5th and 3rd Ward in school districts where we would do garden initiatives. And, you know, kids that literally have not, would never imagine that a carrot grows in the ground because they weren't having access to this and they're eating their spicy Cheetos, et cetera, instead. And so we would literally break down to these kids, and we would have them with chalk on the chalkboard rotate through the entire class of 26 to write down the ingredients in a Hot Pocket. And then we would go to the garden and we would harvest tomatoes and we would show them olive oil and we would take basil and we would smash cloves of garlic and actually with an induction pan, show them how to caramelize onions and garlic to make a marinara sauce and write down the 7 ingredients, salt and pepper included.

Mm-hmm.

In that, the thing is, is with disempowerment and suppression of access or trying to shelter people to say, oh, well, they don't have access. Those kids changed the way that their families ate because they were motivated, they understood, and they were open and they were excited about it. And the reality is, is that when we nourish ourselves with whole real foods, we feel better. But again, we've been sold and lied to with big ag and big pharma that that's disempowerment. And who has time for that?

It's a really great point. It's such an interesting point as well about the, how back in the day eating real food was actually, if anything, you know, cooking from home was, if anything, associated more with your economic status. Like if you were poor, that's what you did. And it's really fascinating. That's not the case now. And I, and I think you're dead on. It's the subsidization. It's the marketing. It really is fascinating because now you're even seeing this huge push away from cooking at home, even for no matter what economic class you are, just because of, and it's being sold to you as it's cheaper. It's being sold to you as like, it's easier, obviously. It's such a mixed blessing of like the technology we were sold, like technology was going to make everything easier. And it's like, but I don't think anyone's lives are easier.

And, you know, we were sold the TV dinners so we could sit in front of the TV instead of at the table. And what do we lose there then? The sovereignty of the spiritual connection of our kids, of ourselves, of our marriages. I mean, that's a whole nother, but for real, we're allowing, you know, now public programming to get into our brains 4 hours a night instead of the hearth. The heart of the household used to be the kitchen table, you know?

Yeah.

And I think that's a huge cultural shift. And this idea that we're too busy, uh, Shape Magazine actually just this past summer did a piece on the Maha movement is sending women back and we're losing feminine freedom. Because of the idea of bringing parents back into the kitchen. I think honestly, we're seeing a cultural shift. I'm a full-time working mama. I'm a functional medicine practitioner, and I run a clinic. I have a supplement line. I have a podcast. I have a YouTube channel. So I'm a very busy woman. There's nothing that brings me more pride of cooking a nourishing meal for my household. And I think part of it is just rewriting that ethos, rewriting the priorities and the values associated with it. Because I just know the impact of food as medicine. And so that to me is more important than taking a shortcut.

What does the balancing act actually look like behind the scenes for you? Where, where do you feel like you've really nailed it? And where do you feel like you still find yourself struggling, particularly, you know, 'cause you're mentioning like, hey, I'm a, I'm a businesswoman, I'm an entrepreneur, but I'm also a mom. And it sounds like you don't have someone who's hired out to do that work. You're doing it. Or maybe you and your partner.

And my husband. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's awesome. So it's a good, it's a good marital relationship, a good partnership in that sense, for sure. And meal planning, I think, as a family is really important. And I think even more important if you can bring your children into the process, maybe they don't need to sit at the kitchen table for the whole, if it takes, for me and Brady, it takes about 45 minutes. The way we go through meal planning, because we really believe strongly in supporting our local ranchers and growers, that's where you get the most nutrient density and Also the best relationship for food security and supporting these members of your community, uh, is that we have a deep freeze. And so, you know, every Saturday we literally, we get our coffee going, Stella's painting or doing something fun, and Brady and I go out to the garage, we pop open the deep freeze and we say, hey, let's pull one slow cook. So we're going to sear and pop in the slow cook. So that could be pork shoulder for carnitas. That could be beef shoulder for a barbacoa. I'm in Texas, clearly. So, you know, we're gonna do some kind of fun type of spicy, crispy protein in that sense. Probably use bone broth in that slow cooker, cilantro, herb seasoning spices. We're gonna do 2 grinds always. And so, the grinds can either be a very simple taco skillet, which for me, because I tend to lean into a little bit more of a ketogenic lifestyle and I like to make ketones, they feel really good in my brain. I might do that as a taco bowl salad. And, you know, my husband might do that with a masa tortilla and my daughter might do some black beans. Then we do another grind that we would incorporate ideally as an organ blend. So, an ancestral blend, and we'll use that for either like my superfood chicken nuggets in Naturally Nourished Kids or a meatball or a meatloaf. So, something's being formed, something's being quick skilleted. And then, the other 3 things are a sear. And, when people say they're too busy to cook, I say, have you ever cooked a ribeye? Because have you ever seared salmon? The reality is we're talking 4 to 5 minutes. In tallow or lard or grass-fed butter, you pick your choice, flip it for 4 to 5 minutes, pull it, rest it, cut it in 4 to 5 minutes. You know, like there's just no, there's just no excuse for that. And so, for the busy nights, we do a sear with a sheet pan of veg, super simple. And that is really like an honest 15 minutes of on, you know, active action. The roast of vegetables might take 40 minutes, but a lot of that's passive in the oven. You're not looking at it, poking at it.

Yeah.

And that's how we lay it out. And then we literally pick with each other. I'll knock out the meatloaf. I only have 2 interviews and 4 people and clients. I'm going to sear at 6:00 AM before I wake Stella up for school to get the pot roast going. So, we know when we wake up in the morning, who's cooking, what's being made. And that's so much peace. And when you're slacking your proteins, you have that buy-in of like, we thawed that, we have to. It doesn't matter how tired we are, how You know, burned out, how stressful the day was. We're committed because that meat is ready to be prepared. That vegetable from the farmer's market is wilting, and/or we've harvested something from our gardens and it's ready to be eaten. And that creates accountability. So the classic plan to stay ahead and successful, and I think having your kids be aware of the meal plan, this is a really equally important part. Towards the end of it, we'll, we'll jive with Stells on it, my daughter. And so we'll say, hey, We're gonna go by Blue Horizon Seafood. Do you want to do snapper or do you wanna do scallops or a Gulf shrimp? And so she can pick the seafood and then we plug that in and we say, hey, should we make this spaghetti squash curry shrimp or the, you know? Um, and so you can bring in autonomy with guided choices. And then kids also know all day at school what to expect for dinner. And I think that helps acceptability. It helps a willingness. There's not a battle at the dinner table.

How old is your daughter?

She's 9.

Are you dealing with any picky eating yet? And how are you dealing with that?

So we have a whole section in Naturally Nourished Kids called Being a Taste Adventurer. And, you know, I find as early as ages 2 to 3, food is a very early power struggle for parents and a way for kids to assert power and control. And they watch parents get frustrated and they know, and they hold that power. Kids are stinking smart. We don't give them enough credit. I really believe often as early on as that age, we would start with those guided choices of like, hey, Stella, we're going to do a red produce. Can you pick out what red produce item you want? Let's name them apple, raspberry, strawberry, bell pepper. Okay. As she picks it, brings it, you know, and so as soon as you can get them involved in the process and give them autonomy and guided choice, you would never want to ask even at any age. What do you want for dinner? Because that's setting up for pizza and French fries. So it's about a guided choice of, hey, for our vegetable, would you prefer this, this, or this? Or for the protein selection, would you like this or that? Do you want the superfood chicken nuggets or the bison meatballs? That allows though, I'm finding enough autonomy and ownership that she's into it. And when we have to navigate something at age 4 or 5, we would have a lot of things coming back in the lunchbox. And I found, again, everyone wants to be heard and understood, and this starts at an early age. And I think it helps mental health for parents to be able to give their children that respect of honoring their feedback and listening and trying to trouble solve with them. And so instead of dumping those lunchboxes and making assumptions, it's figuring out the why behind things being left behind, you know? So tell me about the bell peppers that you left. What's the deal? I thought you liked crunchy bell peppers. It might be a color thing. It might be it was too close to the yogurt and it retrograded and it tasted sour. And, you know, and so we have to be able to understand the feedback on picky eating and then work with them on how would they be willing, because it can take 8 to 15 times of a reintroduction of a food for acceptance on the palate. And when we explain to our kids why we want them to eat them, that's equally important as the what. They actually have the capacity to understand. Like, we started talking about what an antioxidant was at age 3. And, you know, we, we would do like I have in the book with the lemon juice on the apple slices and show what oxidative damage and browning is and what vitamin C and the ascorbic acid does to protect. And this is why we eat the rainbow. You know, it's wild. They, they pick up, and if we can empower them and involve them, they're so much more willing. And I find so much less battle. And the other reason a battle happens is because we're burned out, we're tired, we don't have a plan. We let them ride the bus without guided decisions, and then they find themselves in a food jag of just chicken and cheese quesadilla, just the organic Annie's mac and cheese, or just that whatever. And we have to stop short-ordering cooking for them because that is not going to empower our children with the most nutrient density.

Do you ever have days where it goes sideways? And if so, how do you manage those?

She hasn't yet. And, and, you know, we right now are quite tight about it. Like she's very empowered by her whole food diet. For instance, she had a dance celebration and the teacher brought a cookie cake classic, you know, with like the frosting and such. And Stella said, I'm fine. I don't. And they were like, oh, oh, do you have a food allergy? And she's like, no, I just don't do gluten and food dyes and a lot of other things. That's how she says it in her cute little way. And the teacher comes running out and she's got like Roll Gold pretzels. You know, she's got a handful of snacks. Like, she's like freaking out that my kid's gonna starve without this cookie cake. And then she's like, what can I feed Stella? And I said, oh, is Stella upset? Do I need to check on her in there? And she goes, oh no, she's just dancing with her friends. And I said, she's okay. She knows that she eats a whole food diet and, and it's, you don't need to find anything for her, you know? And then if she ever feels left out by it, we make something special together. She, I used to always send something to school as a proactive treat of like, Mm-hmm. A whole food item, or at least an organic popsicle with just fruit juice or something like that for the teacher to have on hand. And now that she's in 4th grade, she's like, I don't need that special treatment. It's just food. It's really wild. And so, so far it's like that. She's about to go to her 2nd sleepover party and, uh, you know, we'll, we'll see how she navigates all that. But at this time, I don't want her to have anxiety and fear. I don't want her to have judgment. I want her to have empowerment. And when she was asked by the kids at the new school about why she's in a group of 100 and 97 4th graders in the cafeteria, and she's one of the, probably I would guess, 15 that packs their lunch versus eating the cafeteria food. She said very limited. And she said, the girls asked me why I don't eat the cafeteria food. And she said, instead of telling them why I don't eat it, because it might come off judgy, which I was like, good discernment, sister. Like she processed that, you know, like I don't eat soy lecithin and I don't eat chemicals. You know, she was just like, Instead of telling them what I can't eat, Mom, I just thought about it and I said, well, my mom's like really passionate about food. She's a dietitian and she likes to make everything from scratch. And she said they just said, oh, and they went along their way. But had she answered why she didn't, she'd probably have pinned herself into maybe some drama with new friends or again, judgment, shame stuff. And so we just try to be the light. We try to live as pure as we can. Um, we know it's different from the cultural norm. Same with screen times, same with how I hope she doesn't bully friends, same with many other elements. And, and it's okay for her to stand out. And, and I think that as long as she feels empowered by it and not victimized by it, that's the plan.

That's really advanced how she responded to that.

That's— I know. I was like, that was the most proud, honestly, over the food. I was like, discernment. Yes.

That's amazing. You know, you mentioned you're a dietitian. Now I'm, I'm under the impression that not all dietitians are integrative. Nor have a functional medicine background focus. So what made you veer from the dietitian norms?

Well, so I started, I went to Bastyr University, which is a naturopathic college of medicine. And so that's where I trained. So my foundation was actually in natural medicine. And then I had to go through that program and skip through all of the loops. I do wear the credentials with pride. It's interesting. I was considering at Bastyr the ND track, naturopathic doctor track. And when I started to learn about functional integrative medicine, I had an awesome mentor, Michelle Babb, who was an MSRD, and she worked with Dr. Jeff Bland, who's actually like the grandfather of functional medicine, and he had lectured to our school. And she said to me, if you go RD, you're going to be able to swing both legs of the banks of the river. You can work with cardiologists, you can work with endocrinologists, and I am a certified diabetes educator, which is pretty cool access that I get to work with in that sense. I get to order labs, and there were many states in 2009 when I completed there that weren't giving ND credentials credit. And Texas, where I am right now, was one of those. So I feel very blessed with that shift of focus. I will say, I think that absolutely, you know, the dietetics field was funded by General Mills. I mean, it started through big food, right?

Yeah.

And, and, but also we would argue that about the entire standardized medical system being funded by pharma. And so, you know, all medical colleges are. And so I kind of just like sending my daughter to public school. I like being rogue. I like being on the inside out and the outside in and kind of knowing what's going on on both worlds and being able to have impact. And I have lectured to thousands of RDs about functional integrative medicine. I have CEUs credits, medical credits on my book, The Anti-Anxiety Diet that RDs are able to test on and get 32 credits on. And so I feel that this choice has allowed, you know, it's not a public known dietetics are moving this way, but I can still have the impact and the ripple that I can from the inside. And even as an intern, I remember I was putting files in doctors' folders. I'm sure they loved me as an intern in the hospital because they were recommending skim milk. And I was showing them how conjugated linoleic acids in whole milk actually support insulin sensitivity. And so, our diabetics should be getting whole milk. And here's the research.

You were basically putting propaganda, and I'm using air quotes, 'cause that's probably what they looked at it like propaganda in their files. That's hilarious.

And then, and then I lectured at that same hospital. They were actually pretty cool Methodist Hospital in Houston. And they actually invited me in to do a lecture on probiotics. And this was like, I was talking about natural killer cells. This is early 2010. I think that it's served me well. And I would encourage listeners if they're considering it, Sometimes you go through the loops to get the credentials and you answer things to pass a test, and then you use your clinical credentials to practice in, in the way that is scientifically sound.

Well, that's fantastic. I would love to, I think you're more qualified than most than to answer this question, cuz I think a lot of times people don't know where to go right now. A lot of people, they get sick, they immediately go to a doctor and it's probably something that's more connected to their lifestyle, what they're eating, and then their doctor doesn't know anything about that. And so a lot of times people don't really know where to start. And so I think a lot of people, because dietitians are licensed, they think that's where they should start. But I think you're probably more qualified than anyone to kind of say, well, actually this is what you should look for. It's not necessarily dietitian or nutritionist, but look for this type of person.

Right. So I, I do like the IFM, the Institute of Functional Medicine, and they have a You know, search by my zip code, an IFM-certified practitioner. So like I'm listed on there. I find that their education is quite sound. I will caution though, just like anything, right? In the world of functional medicine, you'll find a lot of VIP docs. You'll find a lot of, it costs $5,000 to get established. And also just like anything, an algorithm at many times it's like, oh, everyone has leaky gut. Everyone needs this protocol. I think that there is both a skill set based on the strike of curiosity. A good functional medicine practitioner has to be extremely curious to be a detective of the body. And I think there are some good conventional doctors that are very curious and are detectives of the body. And so, I really do find that it, it comes down to more of the individual, their passion for their job, their desire to, to really understand and listen to their patient. to see the complexity of the human body. And I would just say, I would caution that even in the world of functional medicine, I see all too often just this protocol of these 10 formulas, do this, come back in this time. We're not going to modify. And sometimes you can end up wasting a lot of money in that way too.

Yeah, absolutely. Let's dig into some of the things that you tend to focus on, which I know you talk about mental health a lot. And functional nutrition, like basically kind of bridging the two. So what do you think are some of the biggest root causes that most practitioners still miss when addressing anxiety?

So for certain, and I would even probably say the functional world, but most, most definitely in the allopathic kind of standardized medicine world, the connection to the gut and twofold. In my book, The Anti-Anxiety Diet, I use multiple Rs just to kind of have a little alliteration of how to approach anxiety. And I always say you have to consider all 6 potential causes and you might have partial impact of, let's say, so we talk about reducing inflammation, we talk about resetting the microbiome, repairing leaky gut, rebalancing adrenal and hormones. There's another R for the neurotransmitters. I can't think of what R I used for that. So, you know, it could be any of these and then micronutrient deficiency, addressing micronutrient deficiency. And so for someone, it might be an imbalance of B6 and zinc. And the reason being is that they were on birth control for 20 years and that suppressed these nutrients in their body. And that's also made them have low progesterone. So we have to think for them in, in those 2 kind of banks of the river. I think a lot of people would move a lot of milestones forward by focusing on the gut first, that repairing leaky gut. And that resetting the microbiome and microbiome may be even most impactful because we know that in the microbiome we produce serotonin and GABA, which are our inhibitory mellower-out compounds for the brain, help us to feel safe. We think of serotonin as the most popular, but I would argue GABA for sure, which is an inhibitory mellower-out. It basically like vents the steam train of an epinephrine adrenaline surge. So. A lot of people are feeling keyed up right now for good cause, and, you know, getting ample GABA and serotonin can help to regulate that. And then we also look at the role of the gut, where if there's a gut infection with Candida or parasite or a dysbiotic flora like Klebsiella or E. coli, any of these gut infections are going to send through that bilateral feedback of the gut-brain axis. It's going to send feedback that shit is not right. And basically, and so we'll see a huge surge of adrenaline. I've had people come to me with panic attacks, really severe anxiety and mood disorders. And a lot of that has to do with the fact that there's an active gut infection and that pathogen is creating a surge of survival from the inside out. And then the brain is trying to manage that. So I find huge impact on doing strategic gut cleanses. You know, really supporting with more of a paleo-ish based diet to help to rest the gut from any gut irritants. And then I'm really looking into, of course, the therapeutics of probiotics, following gut cleanse, eating probiotic-rich foods, uh, supporting gut lining with bone broth and glutamine, aloe, DGL. And I find that that can be really huge on impacting mental health as a huge harness. And then the other one that isn't one of those Rs, not as sexy, is Blood sugar regulation. And I think that's the biggest one that we talk about with Naturally Nourished Kids. And of course, with my work in the ketogenic space, you know, just getting off the blood sugar roller coaster helps with mood stability and regulation. We see 3 to 5 times more likelihood of depression and anxiety with those that have an A1C of over 5.9. So, you know, when we can keep our blood sugar stabilized, we're creating less oxidative stress. Less inflammation and less irritability jags, less manic excitatory or slumping irritability. We feel extremely grounded in a low glycemic diet. And then that amplifies when we make ketones, because if we actually adjust our macros to make ketones, these cross the blood-brain barrier. They reduce intracranial inflammation. So inflammation in the brain goes down, which is a huge marker also that we see with mental illness. And those ketones are GABAergic. So back full circle to the GABA, ketones actually help us to feel at ease, and that's why they help inhibit seizures. So if you think of the idea of a seizure being super reactive, the ketones also can help us just on a daily basis feel solid, grounded, and can really harness, uh, the stallion in the brain.

Let's just say if it's your kid, is there an age that you believe they shouldn't be put on, uh, keto foods or, you know, is there any distinction?

I love that question because all babies in utero are making ketones, all babies in utero. So, it's really the question of when did we decide that we should rob babies of the access of ketones? Because breastfed babies also are making ketones. Formula with high fructose corn syrup, those babies are not making ketones, right? So, right away, we're starting to moving from that traditional God food into that ultra-processed product. And then what are we recommended by the AAP to feed our kids as the first food? Processed refined carbs that are synthetically enriched, and that's cereal, rice cereal, and oatmeal. So we're giving them a high glycemic naked carb, cuz a lot of mamas aren't adding breast milk to that. A lot of times just water. So we're giving 'em a naked carb and crash. We're creating an insulin response right away, starting to handicap their metabolic health and rob them of those ketones. I haven't finger stuck my daughter, uh, just because I don't find it's worth stressing her. And now she's pretty metabolically active, but I would guess probably up through age 5 that Stella had a light ketone production. Her first food was avocado, followed by salmon, followed by smashed blueberry, but only eaten when she had a fat. And so we, I believe that we have been designed to be a hybrid using ketones and glucose. And I feel that what has been a huge misstep is robbing ourselves of that access by overconsumption of ultra-processed carbs. So that's kind of the subset is, yeah, I believe ketones are good for all. I will say kids are incredibly more metabolically flexible than adults. You know, as we age, we lose our insulin sensitivity. And I will say that, you know, in my sections of macros, I recommend half of the amount of carbs than the AAP does throughout the age ranges and double the protein, maybe no surprise, than the AAP recommends for good cause, research-supported cause. And yet, you know, many of those kids, when following Naturally Nourished Kids, the athletes, they're likely in still light nutritional ketosis. And then I state in the book, if your child is, if you're considering a drug intervention, go keto first. So, I'm talking ADHD, I'm talking anything on the spectrum, in the autistic spectrum world, I'm talking your child has been followed by the doctor for non-alcoholic fatty liver, or we're looking at hypertriglyceridemia for that child, or obesity. For all of those reasons, get those carbs tighter because they're showing a need for that benefit of the ketones.

What's your view though on dairy? Because a lot of times with keto, people just kind of overkill with cheese, cheese, cheese, butter, butter, butter. So is there more of a balance for you in terms of how you see it? Or you're like, no, no, it's a free-for-all as long as you keep within the percentages.

No, I'm not like a, does it meet your macros kind of gal? I'm a, is this whole food? Is this a food kind of gal first? So we're not like stacking up burger patties at a drive-through, right?

In my world, slathering them in butter.

You know, I think dairy definitely offers a lot of nutritional benefits. I'm have, I have some raw milk in my Banana Bolt coffee protein shake right there. I think that dairy can support bone growth development, no doubt. And that also, especially in the perimenopausal age group, we need a lot more calcium support. I like dairy as an offering for protein, like cottage cheese, Greek yogurt, grass-fed whey that's non-denatured. I think those are all very beneficial foods. But yes, I'm not a big fan. I think of cheese as a condiment. And so, it's more about the just structure of the nutrient density of it. So, no, we're not doing like the classic high meat, high cheese. It's more of a Mediterranean keto where I'm also pretty focused on 2 to 3 cups of leafy greens. I want to get phyto compounds and antioxidants. Throughout the process.

I'm sure you're similar to me in that, you know, you've been in this for a while. All of a sudden vegetables are the devil and like all these influencers like, no, no, cut vegetables out, the oxalates, yada, yada. And it's like, it so doesn't sense check with not even just how I was raised. I'm not even talking about that, but just more of just my emotional intelligence around this stuff of like, you know, when I've gone 100% carnivore, like I crave certain greens, like The body does know a lot, right? So it's like, what's your position? Well, I mean, you're already sharing a bit, but can you go a little bit more in depth around, you know, your position on, you know, vegetables in general?

I think I have like now 4 or 5 podcasts with different names that sound like, are vegetables going to kill me? Is this, you know, because yeah, I'm happy that you asked this, James, because I think it's really important to discuss. So just like the tone of me feeling that we're designed to use both glucose and ketones, I believe that there's also a similar swing of we're supposed to eat animal and plant. I don't think that veganism is right. I don't think that carnivore is right. I think that we need to find a swing, and there's gonna be different seasons where we might have to go more meat-centric, like when we're healing the gut. And there's gonna be seasons when we might have to go more phyto compound-centric, still retaining ample protein for those amino acids and muscle-sparing effect, of course. But we might need higher phyto compounds, uh, to support detox, to help With providing, again, more antioxidant boost to the body if we're seeing oxidative stress. And I would argue, as we're seeing more and more impact of industrialized chemicals, you know, when like Asprey or whoever's saying oxalates will kill you and spinach is the worst oxalates, their argument is that they, they create, they bind, right? And so they can demineralize and that those can be inflammatory cages, if you will, right? For the body. And they can cause a lot of joint pain and of course kidney damage if individuals are prone towards and have high uric acid, et cetera. With that being said, do you know what else they cage? Glyphosate. You know what else they cage? Heavy metals. You know what else they cage? So, it's like, dude, we are exposed to so many industrialized toxins. I'm good with something caging and helping to remove things that are in my body. I don't find oxalates to demineralize when I'm looking at a micronutrient assessment. I've never seen a concern, but I have seen a lot of gaps in individuals that have been, especially in the world of calcium. Especially in the world of certain phyto compound rich nutrients like vitamin C, of course, when we're seeing a tighter carnivore. And so I do find that swing of both and at the same vein, don't eat 10 cups of raw spinach. There's a reason why these vegetables have some anti-nutrient. Yes. To protect us, to protect the animal from, you know, completely decimating, decimating the crop. So there are some gut disruptors. But there's also benefit. And when I look at something like broccoli, I've, I've talked to Paul Saladino at my dinner table about this, and it was an interesting debate at best, but I was like, bro, if eating broccoli increases my body's production of glutathione, right? So if my body makes more glutathione, which is the master antioxidant, when I eat broccoli, I don't care if you're telling me that that's because that was a hormetic stressor. That was a toxin that stressed my body to make this disease-fighting reduces all-cause mortality compound endogenously in my body, that means eat a little bit of broccoli to do that. You know, just like we do hot and cold plunges, just like we lift weights. Sometimes a stressor actually, as long as it's creating a beneficial outcome, I don't think it makes sense to villainize it or to completely create a fear association with it because there's a net benefit.

That is such a good and interesting point. Because I think, You know, we talk socially, politically about, oh, don't, you know, don't be so extreme. Like, let's, there's gray areas of life, but that's true within the nutritional and food world, right? You could basically demonize any food. You could say a pro or con for literally everything. It's not necessarily about like picking a side. It's more about finding the balance, which I think you're doing a very good job of, but you also really encapture something here. And I know you talk about it a lot, but. You talk about building resilience, because that's really what you're talking about, is resilience instead of just removing triggers, which is what a lot of influencers out there are really pushing for, is like, just go all meat or go all veg. It's like, because they're just in a sense saying remove that trigger. But you're like, no, no, no, it's, it's, it's resilience we want. So yeah, and what does that look like?

Tolerating it, you know, what's the condition in which I'm not tolerating it? And someone with leaky gut or gut damage will have more intolerance to veg. And so they have to heal their gut to tolerate.

You gotta take it case by case, but some people feel like their body's constantly on the edge. So for that person, they're told a lot of times just to remove, you know, just do an elimination diet. But where does resilience fit into that? You gotta go get tested. Is that, I mean, obviously you're big, you're big into getting tested, right? So you get tested and then you focus on the healing of whatever shows up. Is that kind of step one?

Right. So I think if you're looking at like a cost-affordable entry point and you know something's off and your doctor keeps telling you everything's fine or everything's within range, and generally a doctor just runs a comp, which it's called a comprehensive metabolic panel, but it's just looking at really what's passing transiently through the body on an electrolyte level, a little bit of liver markers, kidney markers, but it's not telling us comprehensively what's going on in the body by any means. And a lot of people are just getting a comp, a CBC, maybe lucky if an A1C and a vitamin D. And of course everyone's getting their lipids run because the multi-billion dollar statin industry wants to make sure they're staying on top of that. I think the disadvantage is a lot of people don't have access to the information in the anti-anxiety diet with those, you know, multi-approach entry points, if you will. I try to provide quizzes. I try to provide various assessments, symptom associations, so people can at least say, oh, this is me. I'm the adrenal insufficiency person because I had to evacuate during a hurricane, and now I can see how it was a stressful trigger event, and now I'm dealing with brain fog, chronic fatigue, you know, and so this is me. Then that person hopefully at least has the guidance of not just saying, where do I start? But says, I need a salivary cortisol. I actually give lab recommendations in each chapter of The Anti-Anxiety Diet. Again, we don't want people self-diagnosing, but the reality is, is you know yourself more than your doctor does. They've just spent maybe 15, 20 minutes with you. And so it's important to, to, when you're reading through it, If you have that, ah, this is me, or that resonates strongly, that's what I would suggest as the first place to kind of bite off or to request a lab for. And I try to provide, like I said, both conventional lab assessments as well as functional, and even note like companies, et cetera.

That's why I kind of bring up the where do people start a lot, because I feel like most people are living with chronic disease and they don't even realize it, right? So they don't realize that Whatever they've been experiencing every day is a chronic illness or something, something's wrong. So for the sake of that, like, what are some things from your experience that people may not even realize is connected to their nutrition or to something they're eating that you can kind of help them become more aware? Like, like dandruff, for example, or circles under the eyes. Like, can you kind of highlight some symptoms? And what may potentially be the causation so that people better understand of like, oh, this is what I see in myself. And then maybe what they should potentially do or kind of veer them where they should go or who they should look to for that.

Yeah. So, you know, dandruff, I think of really dandruff as well as any derm issue usually ties back to fungal or bacterial dysbiosis. That's a big area of focus. And then when we look at like circles under the eyes, we're looking at liver health as the first thing. For instance, my daughter genetically has a GST1 mutation, which impacts glutathione levels. I had mentioned that with the broccoli, it's the grandmama master antioxidant with vitamin C being kind of the baby sister. And then CoQ10 is in the middle and selenium and such, but glutathione, and then right below it is NAC and acetylcysteine. Some individuals are gonna have lower ability to make glutathione. Um, and so like for Stell's, I would rub it on her liver transdermally whenever I would see dark circles under her eyes. As she's grown older and she's eating a lot more phyto compounds, we're seeing less of it except for when she's in the pool a lot, because again, that's a chemical toxin.

The chlorine, right?

And you know, we, right, right. So we do vitamin C then to offset the chlorine metabolites. We add in the glutathione orally now. And so, I look at liver health with the eyes. I would say if people that are listening are dealing with stubborn metabolism, sometimes it is your hormones, but most of the time, I'll tell you what it is with stubborn metabolism. It's insulin resistance and that you have an excessive level of insulin and leptin. So, those are 2 labs that I recommend requesting, looking at the thyroid, of course, but all too often, we're seeing insulin goes up. Way preceding an A1C, and so you might have an A1C at 5.4 or 5.5. So your doctor's not even talking about prediabetes, but your insulin might be 27 or 32, and I like it under eight. When insulin levels start to creep up past the teens, literally insulin puts a lock on our access to go through lipolysis or breaking body fat, and we are more prone towards lipogenesis or body fat storage. And so in my approach of unlocking your metabolism, I do a six-week tight keto. So, reset to get that insulin down as rapidly as possible. We can see pretty remarkable decline in insulin just by pulling carbs to just the residuals from like almonds, from the asparagus, the broccoli. So, not selecting any carbs, staying at 30, 45 grams a day, and that literally unlocks metabolism. And then, we look at their leptin level, and if their leptin is above 10 or lower than 5, I'm going to treat that individual different in food frequency. So, if they have a higher leptin, I'm going to encourage them to fast longer, more food scarcity. The body's perceiving a state of being overfed. If their leptin is a 3, I'm going to fat feed them actually, and I'm going to have them start their day with olive oil and salt to actually tell their body fat is coming in and, and get that leptin up so the body feels safe to, to drop the weight again. And so, those 2 biomarkers I think are really important and not run commonly. For individuals frustrated with body composition or change. And I use those very strategically in clinic to dial a protocol.

Well, I love that. That's, that's really gold information. I hope everyone listening or watching, like, really took notes on that. Cause that's, that's really the key is like, we only know what we know. My hope is that we're opening people's eyes to potentially recognize like, oh, this thing that I thought was caused by XYZ is actually something that I can actively deal with by working with someone that's knowledgeable, but also through my nutrition and through my lifestyle. So to that point, if you had to create like a food is medicine starter kit, but not products, but principles, what 3 ideas would be a non-negotiable for you?

Okay. So the first is you have to eat whole real foods, right? So we have to be talking about foods. The second is Getting ample protein, you know, starting with a simple calculation of 1 gram per pound of ideal body weight. So it might not be actual body weight, but an ideal body weight, 1 gram per pound. And so that might be, you know, for me, something like 120 grams that I'm looking to get every single day. Reason for that is especially, and this starts in children. So if your kiddo is 60 pounds, you're trying to get them 20, 20, 20 in their protein goal throughout the day. This is important because we see in research that the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain that plays a role with socialization, with executive thinking, with reducing impulsivity, with helping with learning and attentiveness, the prefrontal cortex thrives when we get ample protein. And there is research that I use in Naturally Nourished Kids to support that, as well as the anti-anxiety diet. Protein being broken down into amino acids. Those amino acids make our neurotransmitters. And then of course, we get the benefit of the protein in the diet for our immune system because we need ample protein to actually make an antibody when we're presented with an antigen. So whether that's a seasonal pollen or that's a viral infection or that's mold, we need ample circulating amino acids to help our body to build those immune Responders, if you will. We also need the protein, of course, for muscle protein synthesis and metabolic health. The more muscle we have, we're seeing not only favorable for looks, but literally a factor in also all-cause mortality. The more muscle we retain, the better our longevity is. So, protein for sure, and meeting your minimum. So, that should be the first question is like, where's my protein on my plate? If you're making it for yourself or your kiddo. And then, the second one would be to aim into keeping my carbs in check. So, Am I keeping low glycemic enough based on my metabolic flexibility, my level of insulin resistance or sensitivity? Am I eating low enough carbs that I can tap into the magical production of ketones intermittently or chronically, depending on where I am in my goal set? But I always want you to have access to them.

What does that look like in your house? Because I know you mentioned you make things from scratch. I'm assuming so protein, fat, vegetables are consistent. Is there anything else that's consistent that maybe, you know, is a little outside of that? Because there's some people that are like, oh, we still always make sourdough bread, for example. Or are you like, no, for us, it's truly like we rarely do it or we don't do it. Like, where do you stand with that?

On sourdough specifically. So, you know, as far as carbs, I like them coming from fruits and starchy vegetables, you know, like sweet potato, right?

Carrots.

Yep. Beets. Yes. And I mean, like, kind of like you can see the book cover behind me, that's kind of a meal, right? So, we have chicken kebabs, right? We have a salad, it looks like, with avocado and strawberry and sprouts. And then, we have Greek yogurt cheesecake bars, which, yeah, those actually do have 2 tablespoons of honey for the whole recipe and Greek yogurt and eggs, and then a nut-based crust. So, still even low glycemic and pretty— So, again, there's There's carbs that sprinkle in, and I find carbs do best in my philosophy of when they're partnered with high antioxidants. And so typically that's the produce on our plate. With that being said, I have a retired sourdough culture in my fridge, and we've played with it. Uh, my husband and I went to a class at, we have a lovely mill out here called Barton Spring Mills. They work with all US growers, heirloom variety grains. I myself went really tight gluten-free in, I think like 2015. And when we went to Italy for my 40th birthday, I said, hey, I wanna know if I can tolerate the non-glyphosate, you know, non-synthetically enriched grains and like be able to really surrender to this. And so we started playing a little bit with the Barton Mill Springs. My gut was fine. I felt resilient. I tested my antibodies, my thyroid, all good. And so, you know, we did our thing and just kind of moderate bites of things here and there. Then Came to make sourdough when we get back. And then I'm like, oh, well, 2 months later I had to do a keto reset because I gained 15 pounds.

Right. It's a slippery slope.

Now it's retired because I'm like, that didn't serve me. Like it, 'cause, and with sourdough, the problem I find just personally, I think that, yeah, a lovely, like for now how I look at sourdough is like twice a month. So if I twice a month do an open-faced slice or my husband makes garlic toast and it's like super delicious with like spaghetti squash casserole, you know, and that's like the salty crunchy element. Okay. In moderation, I feel resilient on my gut, but metabolically it doesn't really serve me. And it is a little bit more of an addictive food. And when you're perpetually making loaves, it's easy to cut off of. And it's, it's, it's a stimulus too. So, you know, I'm not staunch about it. I just feel like it's depending on what your body comp goals are, you know, where that would fit in your diet, but you have to have a resilient gut. And ideally it's an heirloom grain.

Now it is interesting, 'cause I'm sure there are people that are going to listen to this and they'll be like, oh, she just sounds so restrictive. Right? They're gonna label what you're saying and judge it. And I don't personally hear that. Like how I identify it is like, even for myself, I've done so many different diets throughout my 20-plus years, you know, and I've tried all these different things and I have found for myself, I am not good with like that cheat day. Like I'm better just all or nothing. Like, so that's my choice and my decision that I've made over time. And it sounds like that's kind of where you are at as well. You've found what works for you, but for the person that's like going, oh, this sounds so extreme. What mind shift has to happen so that the person doesn't hear that you don't choose these things and not see it extreme? Like, what is the mindset change that has to happen?

My biggest program I run is called a Keto Reset. And so people are, you know, curious. It's a 12-week food as medicine program. And I think one of my favorite phrases of it is I will help you redefine your relationship with food. And I will help you to crave savory again. Um, and those are wins. If you can crave savory, not force, I'm talking about like an organic, like you're salivating thinking about Brussels sprouts and a ribeye, then versus a cookie cake pop at Starbucks, right? Like, like it's actually rewiring your reward system, your palate. And a lot of that also comes with getting off of the mediocre to shitty slope. That's like you said, you know, there's a lot of people probably listening that aren't feeling Thrive mode. And so, if you're hanging from mediocre to crummy, I'm not sure if I'm allowed to swear, but if you're hanging from mediocre to crummy, you know, then you don't care. What's the difference of feeling chronically inflamed, more bloated, a little bit less bloated? Once you realize what awesome feels like, and you're like wanting to chest bump someone in the parking lot, and you are feeling just rock and roll in your body, nothing is worth that shitty. Like shitty is so dramatic from optimal. That you're not messing around. There is no, you know, processed product or food that is going to take you off of that optimal state. And, and I think that that's where I, I really feel I experience food freedom. And again, when you're channeling savory, you can still totally indulge. Like, I'm a fan of sashimi at restaurants as an app starter. I love raw oysters from the East Coast as a nature's multivitamin. You know, I think we eat really well. Like, we eat steak and lobster and all of these things. You know, occasional glasses of quality old world wine. And I find those indulgences to really serve my goals and yet to still feel indulgent, uh, different than what I'm preparing at home maybe. And I find enough freedom in that. I feel zero, I truly authentically feel zero restriction. And you know, that's what I look for in my daughter. And I'm constantly watching because if she starts to feel victimized or restricted, we're gonna have to pivot in our approach because that is not something that I want. I want her to feel empowered and that. You know, it's worth the investment. It's worth the discipline. Discipline usually yields good things, generally speaking.

Well, and I think that's key. Like, your mindset shifts away from the norm when you start to realize that the norm potentially is what's keeping you from thriving. And so once you actually start to feel like you're thriving, it's almost like the pendulum swings the other way and you're like, oh my gosh, I'm going to do everything I can now to stay in that thrive mode. And so suddenly these things that someone else who's in that norm would go like, oh, well, that's so, you know, you're so extreme. It's like, no, no, no, you're extreme because I'm now thriving and I just want to stay there. You don't even realize that you might not be thriving if that's the case. Right.

Right. And you're continuing to handicap yourself by those choices that you perceive as freedom. Full circle from our early conversation about food deserts, et cetera. I was, for the first time ever, This is before 2020, even kicked off of a panel in Austin because I was asked about all foods fit and about where Oreos fit. And I just, I answered it very bluntly. And, you know, I was told that that promotes disordered eating. And I think again, that all foods fit and saying that there's health at every size is a co-op to disempower and keep us connected to big ag and big pharma. And you can choose to be in that. That's okay. Um, but if you're choosing freedom in your body, It's going to require some discipline and it's going to require resetting all of those relationships.

I love it. That's a great place for us to just cap this. I think that food freedom and health freedom, it's just, it is a choice. I'm hoping that those watching or listening to this have gotten a little bit closer to expanding what's possible, you know? And I think that's really what's key is we, we only know what we know. So if we can expand that perspective a little bit, Then I believe we're on the right track. Absolutely. How can people do your programs? How can they find you? Where should they start?

So the website and social media handles are Ali Miller RD. So alimillerrd.com, which is A-L-I-M-I-L-L-E-R-R-D.com, and then @alimillerrd on social. And yeah, definitely follow on Instagram. I'm the most active and I have been sharing every weekly meal plan as just like a reel, like a This is what I'm writing down. This is what it is. So, if you're looking for inspiration, that's great. I launch my next 12-week, the last one of the year, Keto Reset on September 24th. So, I'd love for you to join. And that whole program is only $449. It's $36 a week. And you get my brain and you're in a private chat group where Becky, my business partner and the co-author of Naturally Nourished Kids, we're the direct moderators. So, you're not like farmed off to some chatbot. It's real support. We see phenomenal outcomes. So I'd love for you to join that. And then, um, you can get Naturally Nourished Kids, The Anti-Anxiety Diet, The Anti-Anxiety Diet Cookbook anywhere books are sold. So support your local bookstore. And then if you're not going to support your local bookstore, buy on my website. And if you need to, you can buy it on Amazon if you're a Prime member and you get it, you know, overnight and all that stuff.

And then you have a podcast.

Yes, I have a podcast, Naturally Nourished, and then I have a YouTube channel, Naturally Nourished, as well.

And you've done over 460 episodes of that podcast. As a last parting question, is there something from your interviews with the guests from the very beginning that has changed? You know, you've learned along the way from those 500 or so episodes that you're just like, oh, that's not where I started out. That is different.

Yeah, I think that's a great question. And I think that's a sign of intelligence, right? Being able to adapt and pivot and apply critical thinking. I mean, before I started my podcast, when I, as you'll learn in The Anti-Anxiety Diet, I was a vegan, right? And so, I had to totally break up with doctrine. I have a phrase, doctrine creates disconnect, because if you become indoctrinated by your diet, you're not going to listen to the feedback of when your body's saying, this isn't serving us anymore. Since I've started the podcast, I think that that was 2016, I think that probably my connection to metabolic flexibility And understanding that, you know, we can really incorporate often more grams of carbs while still staying in a light nutritional ketosis. And I think in the earlier stages, I was pretty staunch. If I was giving my daughter an apple, I would take that bite and then I would like spit out the piece. I was like, oh no, this might spike my glucose. And I've come to learn through CGMs and, you know, being in the field longer and seeing, wow, we're a lot more flexible. And when we check that insulin and leptin marker, We can really determine where, where that flexibility lies.

So, it sounds like you're a little, little easier on yourself and a little less staunch around, around principles and dogmatic concepts.

Yes. Yes. I think even the perfect diet, if we're too white-knuckled on it, can create, you know, a stress response that works against us. Yeah. Yeah.

So, we've got to find that ease. Well, thank you again for joining us, Allie. I'm really excited by what you shared and I, Truly hope we've helped some people with this episode. So thank you.

Awesome. Thanks for having me on, James.

And thank you all for participating. Please stay curious. Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluslearn.com. That's e-a-t-p-l-u-c-k.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.