“I Questioned Everything” - My ‘Radical’ Approach To Dealing With Cancer | Katrina Foe

Welcome back to Everyday Ancestral, where we reconnect with what the body has always known. Does life happen to you or for you? When functional nutritionist Katrina Pho was diagnosed with breast cancer, she did something few people have the courage or support to do. She reversed it 100% naturally. No chemo, no radiation, just food, mindset, and deeply ancestral practices. And she did it while homeschooling her 7 kids. In this episode, Katrina shares how she turned a life-altering diagnosis into a path of deep healing, challenging everything we've been taught about disease, resilience, and what it means to trust the body's wisdom. If you've ever questioned the limits of modern medicine or wondered if a more natural ancestral path could work for you, this conversation is your invitation to look deeper. How does it feel to you hearing that? Is Does it make you emotional at all about what you've done and what you've accomplished?

Yeah, James, it, it does. It brings up a lot of stuff. I'm like, wow, who is that lady? Um, this path has been circuitous and crazy and, um, but it, it has, it's taken me to that deeper place that I, I would've wanted to go, but I don't know that I would've chosen that path.

Yeah, it really brings up that question of like, You know, as I started with, does life happen for us or to us? And I mean, did this, did the cancer diagnosis truly, was that the first time where you really changed that perspective of like, oh no, this is an opportunity for me to look deeper and to see this as a gift versus as a, as a death sentence? Or had you already shifted to that mindset previously?

That's a really good question. No, so I'd actually had 2 kind of food as medicine health eye-opening experiences that had already invited me. And when I entered into it, showing me that there's other ways to look at things and reframing it and seeing things that happen to us passively as more opportunities to dive in and investigate and learn. look for new paths, uh, already before. I don't, I don't know, frankly, that I would have made the choices that I chose if I hadn't had those 2 big health things, um, which are like whole other stories, uh, happen prior.

Well, let's, let's go backwards then, because I would, I would love to just at least touch on this path, because I think it, it's really important, you know, when we, we're living in this modern society We were sold this bill of goods that technology was going to simplify things, but it really hasn't. And so I think, if anything, more and more people are in a place of like they're outsourcing their health. They're they've lost touch with what their own body needs, and we're scared, particularly when something like a diagnosis of cancer comes up. And more and more people are getting some kind of diagnosis like this, whether it's cancer or Or autoimmune diseases, there's there's something happening from modern society, and if anything, our medical systems aren't supporting us; they're broken. And in many ways, society is broken because we don't know how to support each other in this state of dis-ease, right? So I would love to go backwards in your journey because I believe that's where the answers are because you did find support. You you. are supporting others. But how did we get here? So, so let's go backwards to 7 kids homeschooling. Like, what's that all about?

Well, I like children. Um, and, you know, with the homeschooling, uh, even before I had my first child, like, I just wanted to spend more time with them. So I had structured my first business, which was a Pilates studio, so that I could You know, work from home and like have a flexible schedule. I was in charge of the schedule. I'll just put it that way. And I could leverage myself because I was the business owner. And that was kind of all from the beginning because I wanted to be with my kids. And that's where you know we had lots of children. But she she had some really bad tooth decay. I was really really sick. The hyperemesis gravidarum. When I got pregnant with her.

Who is this, your firstborn?

My firstborn. I was on suppository medication. I couldn't even take the oral medication. And even then, I was super anti-medication. And she, fast forward, had some serious tooth decay. When she had to be 3 or 4, she was having some pain. I took her in, and she needed, I think it was 8 fillings and 3 baby root canals. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And they looked at me like I was a bad person. And they're like, you need to stop feeding her soda and junk food. I'm like, she's never had soda. I mean, I was eating maybe like generically healthy, but I wasn't eating what I now know is healthy. And so it took a lot of like 3 more second opinions and a whole lot of digging in. And I found the GAPS diet and we started cleaning everything up and we stopped the tooth decay. And that's kind of what got me into Weston Price. And starting along this journey of like, how does our food interact with us? And what is this, you know, the right way to eat ancestrally? And even before that, I had had this really interesting— my husband, my fiancé at the time, we both had dogs. I had fully vaccinated mine. He had not, and so I was going to be a good little fiancée and register his dog and get her all vaccinated, and took her in, and she almost died from all the vaccinations. They she had bronchitis really bad three times that year, and it really kind of brought it to my in my face of like, what what is a vaccine? Why why would this happen? And I started researching all this stuff and realized that. I had had a vaccine injury as a child that my mom had never told me about. And like, I'm super glad knowing what I know now that I didn't vaccinate my kids because especially with my oldest history and compromised immune system, like it would've probably been a big problem. So those together really brought it in my attention. Like I need to look into things more thoroughly before I just jump in with whatever's recommended.

Our cat, our first cat as a family, she also was vaccine damaged, and it was very clear that it was from the vaccine. It ended up being from the what? It's from the the vaccine they give all the animals who are outdoors. I'm forgetting that the rabies shot. It was from that vaccine, and it affected her. Uh, neural— her neural pathways, and she would get these seizures from there on out, um, and she would get them regularly. So, um, it's interesting because a lot of people— it's such not a black and white situation, right? Vaccines, it's— there really are subtleties. And, and yet most of society, at least in the media, don't allow for that. They're just like, nope, you either are for it or against it. It's like No, there's real situations that exist. The people that are loud about this are not loud about it randomly. It's like we've experienced things. Um, so that was the first occurrence of just starting to think about things that are outside of the norm.

Yeah. Yeah. And it started my brain thinking and researching and reading all the books and starting to talk to people about it. And, um, through a lot of those resources, I started to learn like, hey, maybe I don't want to make this choice that's just the standard everybody does it this way kind of thing. And then one of those was homeschooling. And, um, you know, getting to be with the kids is one benefit, but then I get to teach them what I want. I get to have more flexibility time-wise with them and what they learn and, um, all— and what they eat. That's a huge one. As a practitioner now, I, it's almost impossible to work with kids that are at school because there's so many variables outside of your control. And as a homeschooler, you get a lot more control with that.

How old is your oldest now?

She's 18.

Okay, so she's old enough and probably some of the others as well where they're now exposed and doing things outside of the home, obviously, and they're being influenced by the food. That's outside the home. So how are you navigating that? Because I know that's a little divergent from our topic, but it's one that I think so many of us as parents struggle with, of like, if you're following a very specific food paradigm at home that's different from what's outside the home, usually the kids feel like they're freaks. They're treated differently. They then get even more curious about the junk food and sometimes get even more addicted to it. So how have you been navigating that?

That's a fantastic question. Yeah, as parents, we do the best we can with what we know. And, um, I'm big on education, whether it's with my clients or my kids. I feel like for the most part, when people really understand the situation, they have better opportunities to take responsibility for themselves. And I tell my kids all the time, like, it's your body, it's not mine. You don't get another one later in life or something, you know. If you choose to do that. It's, it's your choice. Now, you know, as a 5-year-old, it's different than a 15-year-old. Um, another thing with the homeschooling is I get to— I mean, they're, they're in the house for more meals, so they get to cook them. Um, and we do it together. And, you know, as they grew up, um, they learned how, you know, basic skills of cooking to where then eventually they can cook whole meals and do meal planning and stuff. And I feel like that's— a really important life skill that most schools leave out. So, you know, as they've gotten older, there's, there's been times where we're out and they're like, I've never had this piece of junk food, or, you know, whatever. I'm like, yeah, let's try it. I want you to taste it, you know. I want you to know what it tastes like. And a lot of times, like, oh my gosh, this is so good. I'm like, yeah, but it has these consequences, you know. So we discuss it all. And yeah, it tastes good because there's addictive chemicals in it and because there's, you know, this And it opens up really great opportunities. So I don't shelter them from everything, but overall, yeah, they eat super healthy. They know how to cook. I let them make a lot of their own choices. So we do a lot of kind of salad bar style where they get to choose what goes on their plate. And I'm a very strict, you have to try everything. I was a very embarrassingly so picky eater as a kid. And I think it's important. You have to try everything because your taste buds change. And if you don't want to eat it, Yeah, yeah.

Holding boundaries actually creates a better home life and is safer for the kids. Like, they feel more freedom with boundaries than not. At least that's what I've found.

Yeah. And I have so much fun with them now, James. Like, we go out to restaurants and I get like even waiters and other tables commenting because my kids are eating things like escargot and foie gras. And I have fun because I get to eat with them and they're not wanting just chicken nuggets.

Nice. Okay, so back to the journey though. So after this health journey with your daughter, her teeth, what was the next kind of catapult? Was it the cancer diagnosis?

Yeah, so the teeth led us on this whole gut healing thing, and we did gaps. And even despite that, I had then developed cancer, which looking back and understanding and having seen that objective lab tests, it makes sense. There were a lot of other variables. And that's kind of the thing that I would say to people with the vaccines, because a lot of people are like, all vaccines cause problems and all don't. And it's not a black and white thing, like you were saying. Just like with the vaccines, you know, cancer is going to be a myriad of issues. It's never one thing. And there's, when we do the lab testing on all the things that cause cancer and have been shown to drive cancer, There's usually 7 or 8 things coming up. So it makes it trickier to like feel into like, well, what's going on? Um, and to, to see it, because most of the clients that come to me, they don't really have symptoms. I mean, they might have some sniggly things that are no big deals, but they're not like have major life conditions. So they're very perplexed by this.

Now, you, you said you were running a Pilates studio.

Right?

When did you then transition to nutrition? Was that, uh, even though I know while you had the Pilates studio you were still into nutrition, right? But you took it to a whole other level. You became a functional nutritionist. Did that happen before the diagnosis, during, after?

Yeah, that's a great question. So I actually still own the Pilates studio, Personalized Pilates. It's in Scottsdale, and I've been running it remotely, um, for More than a decade now, so I'm not full-time in it. I'm the owner. But the cancer diagnosis—I'd already, like I said, done a lot of research about nutrition, but I wasn't—I hadn't taken courses and training. With the cancer diagnosis, the whole thing was so fascinating, and I—I really struggled to find understanding and get my questions answered. So I actually went to Nutritional Therapy Association and then to do functional. Um, lab testing training and integrative oncology training where I wanted to understand. And so that was after the cancer diagnosis to get the official credentials of everything.

So you got the diagnosis and it was breast cancer, right? What stage was it?

Um, I actually chose not to do the staging because, um, the biopsies and all the scans, a lot of them can cause cancer and such. So I, and spread it. So I didn't want to opt in that way.

So you went truly natural. Like, so can you walk me through what is naturally— what does a natural cancer diagnosis process look like?

Yeah, and this is super controversial. So mammograms are radiation, and then they want to do a biopsy, and then they want to do I'm sorry, then they want to do the ultrasound and then the biopsy. And the biopsies, where they extract the needle with the cells of the tumor, can actually leave secondary track marks where secondary tumors can grow. So I wanted to opt out of that. And there's actually technology where you can do just a basic normal blood draw and you can test for circulating tumor cells. And they can actually detect from those cells like where the tissue of origin is. And validate, is it cancer? Is it not? As well as monitor things. So, I mean, there's lots of companies that do this. Some are more accurate than others. And at the time of my cancer, this was 10 years ago, I had 2 different companies that validated because I didn't really believe the first one. I had found the lump with a plugged duct when I was nursing my 5th child and just thought it was part of that. And when I dug in and did some of these tests, I was like, no, that can't be right. Let's do another one to figure it out.

And it kept coming back that there was something there. Yeah.

Yeah. And it validated it was from the breast tissue, not somewhere else kind of thing.

Yeah. So then what's the next step? You know something's going on. Do you immediately go into like, okay, I got to start following ketosis or what's the next process of that journey?

Yeah, so the way I looked at it, I had been doing a lot. I mean, we had moved to a different state so we could raise our own meat animals— kind of extreme, a lot. And I was like, why did this happen? Clearly something I'm doing is not right. And so to make sure I didn't have some kind of bias of what I had learned, I put everything on the table. And I'm like, okay, all this stuff I learned in Weston Price Like maybe I'm missing something. Maybe there's something to all this raw vegan stuff. Maybe I'm like, and so I started studying all of it from scratch. I actually went down to a cancer clinic in Mexico. They're doing Gerson as well as some other stuff, and you know that's raw vegan, lots of juicing, and I had a lot of questions because it didn't really line up with what I had previously learned, and I was. Trying to really fully understand this because you know we're all ultimately the masters of our own health, and I kept asking questions and they didn't have answers. And by the third day down there, the director of the facility sat me down and was like, "You know, I think you just need to trust in the process." And I was shocked because I felt like if I was doing alternative stuff that I would get more support and and that people would want to help me get. Thorough understanding. And I'm like, well, I need answers to my questions. And he invited me to leave.

Wow. So, wow. Yeah. I just want to sit with that for a second. The alternative therapy also let you down, like, because we normally hear that kind of mentality with, you know, the modern Western medicine. But yet, clearly, it's not just about is it alternative or modern? That's not, that's not our basis of is this work or not? It's Which of them is open to questions being asked, to interrogation, which is open to a different perspective, right? And yeah, it wasn't.

Yeah, no, it's, it's, it's really about like which practitioner do you gel with that allows you to ask questions and take ownership of your health, or versus a lot of them even in alternative healthcare. And this isn't always in standard of care, but a lot of them in alternative healthcare even are Do it my way. Here's what you're gonna do. Go through the chute. And that's a lot why a lot of people are stepping outside the standard of care is they want to understand. They want to own their health. And even in alternative healthcare, that's not always the most efficient way for them to work. So they they don't allow it kind of a thing. Yeah. So after that, I I felt like I was free falling, and I was completely on my own trying to figure this out. And I was so blessed. A friend. Connected me with a functional practitioner, and we started running the tests that I run now. And there was a lot off, James. I was shocked because I didn't have symptoms for a lot of these things. And so we started working on those, and it just made so much sense. And I didn't understand why more people weren't doing this. And even now, 10 years later, most people are unaware of the ability that we have to to run these tests because they're not covered by insurance and they're not part of our standard of care, but they're, they're really getting to the root of what's going on.

Well, and I would offer too, and I, I'm sure you agree with this, it's like, it's not just about running the test, but it's also about working with practitioners that read the tests in what I would say an effective way. Because I always say, like, you know, everyone can buy jeans, Like there's, anyone can buy jeans, but they all, they all fit differently and you gotta find the one that fits right for you.

Yeah. You know? Yeah, 100%. And there's a lot of people out there, um, in the cancer world, um, that can read the functional test, but they don't know how that relates in terms of cancer. Like, um, a normal person, you know, you look at the test and iron or copper might be indicated, but with a cancer client, You would never want to give them those because it can, you know, fuel things up. High, higher protein diets can stimulate those mTOR pathways. And, you know, so there's a lot of these things that are okay normally, but would actually be detrimental with the cancer.

Now, actually, let's talk about that briefly because you've mentioned that previously, uh, in other conversations about how iron is not ideal, but yet iron from food is okay.

Can you explain that distinguishment? Yeah, so, so iron's, um, a really tricky one. And in traditional oncology, I'm going to kind of back up for a second, they a lot of times just look at hemoglobin, um, to look at and assume what the iron status is, which is not a very good way of testing things. It's, it could be a lot of other things that they might be missing, but that's the cheap and easy on, you know, their CBC and metabolic panel, which is all that oncologists run, um, which is horrifying in and of itself. So looking at the total iron and the ferritin more specifically and digging in, you can see the pattern of what's going on with the iron. And a lot of times what may first appear like, um, this pattern, like an iron deficiency or something, may actually be like an anemia of chronic disease. Which is super, super common in cancer, where the iron levels go down and the ferritin levels go really high as an indicator of inflammation. And it's a sign; it's not a diagnosis, but it's a sign that things are getting worse with the cancer, and we don't want to exacerbate that by giving them iron. It would be like you know, like pouring gasoline on a house fire. Like it's just not a good idea. And oftentimes the doctors aren't aware of this pattern going on, but we can see it really easily. And this is where, you know, adding, whether it's a supplement or a lot of times I see oncologists wanting to give iron infusions after, you know, chemotherapies that have driven the iron levels down, that's not gonna fix it because that's not the problem and it would make it worse. And I've seen that happen with clients that are working with other oncologists and such. And it's really, really hard to manage when they start doing this kind of stuff. But supplements, you know, iron in the food is different. So when you're talking about something like having some red meat, you know, we're not going to have too much protein, and therefore it's limiting how much iron. But also, you know, organ meats and things can be fine because then the body has a chance to decide itself how much it's getting, and you're not inundating it with extreme amounts of iron, like in an IV or something.

It's almost like the food is more well-balanced, and so it gives your body this— the room and the space to choose, versus where supplements are more times than not an overabundance of sometimes even a synthetic vitamin or mineral that your body just is, like you said, inundated and doesn't know, and overwhelmed by it.

Yeah, and our center of care doesn't seem to— and even a lot of times natural folk don't seem to distinguish what you just said about the, is it synthetic, is it natural, like what form, you know, is it taken in this context of having enough stomach acid to absorb it? Like there's all these factors that need to be looked at in conjunction as well.

Yeah. Wow. So what did you change? I mean, I know talking to you previously, you focused on things like Water intake and the type of water. Can you talk about some of the things that you did change in your life to get your cancer in remission?

Yeah, I did a lot of diet changes. I did not go raw vegan. I went the other way, and I went into a ketogenic diet because when I started looking into it, the science made a lot of sense, and there was a lot of. Clinical evidence as well as research showing that a ketogenic diet can really be helpful for cancer. So I went super high fat, which was really outside my comfort zone, really low carbohydrate and moderate protein. Things were already clean, so that wasn't a huge change. But there was a lot of other stuff. I needed to clean up my microbiome. I wasn't digesting things well, so I was doing some supplementation there. My hormones were really off. I was super estrogen dominant, so I did use some herbs to help with that and actually got things in range in like three months. Making sure that I was reducing my stress, clean up my sleep hygiene, things like that. One of the biggest ones, though, was the toxins. I had moved into what I I didn't know was a very black mold ridden house about eight months prior to the cancer diagnosis. And in that same time frame, there was a crescendo to a very toxic relationship that I was in. So there's all these things like brewing and working against each other, against me together with that.

Yeah, the mold. That's so interesting. The toxins, the mold. Like, I'm just more and more hearing that. And when people start sharing their diagnoses, like, It, it's interesting because it's not the first place most practitioners or doctors look, but it tends to be when you— no one can figure it out, it tends to be the missing piece.

Yeah, and the mold thing with cancer specifically just fascinates me, James. Um, so I, like, at this point I only work with cancer clients and I always test them. They don't get a choice about the mold, and I've only had 2 clients not have toxic levels of multiple mold strains. Now, you know, these are known carcinogens in the research. This is not like some, you know, out there, up for debate kind of thing. And it makes sense. You know, most states in the real estate industry, you can't sell a house without disclosing it. Although the owners that we bought it from did not disclose it to us, although they did know. And it's just kind of crazy that when somebody has cancer, we look at these known carcinogens and no one's testing them so that the client goes Does their standard of care, their chemo and everything, and then they come home and just cross their fingers. It's a simple pee test. It's not hard. It's not diff— difficult. It's not even that costly. And you can see, do we need to dig in and make sure that you're not like sitting in the environment that grew the cancer in the first place? I mean, it, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to wonder like, hey, is it gonna come back if they're still living in that same environment?

Well, I think that word is key, right? Environment. And I, and, and I know when Margaret had her melanoma scare, that's really how we looked at it. It's like, okay, it's the environment and the internal environment. And to what you're saying, also the external environment that really need to be looked at because it's just like if it's a weed, right? You, you don't just pull out the weed. You have to change the environment that's encouraging the weed to grow. Right?

Exactly.

And you have to look at both. You can't just look at one because, uh, I had, uh, Warren Phillips on. As a guest, and he talked about this as well, is like, if you just focus on the outside of your body, but don't focus on, well, what toxins are already in my body, then nothing changes.

100%.

And, and, and the inverse is true as well. Like, if you just focus on the inside, but don't change the toxins you're getting from the outside, nothing changes. So, uh, yeah, I love that.

Yeah, I want to take this a step farther because along the lines of what you're saying, You know, when a lot of clients come to me, they're doing this cleanse or that cleanse. And I think most people at some point have, you know, bought some boxed kit or something or done some process on the internet. And that's fine, I guess. But I think most of the times it's a big waste of money because they're not considering where the inflow is coming in. And so, like in the example of the mold, like I tell my clients, okay, we got these test results back. This is really helpful. Don't start the mold protocol yet. We have to figure out is this in your house and get that stopped because if we just get it out of you and it's still coming in, it's kind of a waste of money and it's a waste of your time and let's just be frank, your energy because these protocols aren't easy. They're they're a lot of time, energy, and money, and we want to make sure they're they're efficient. So. You know, doing the testing, whether it's the mold or you know chemicals that might be in your water, like testing to see okay I have XYZ chemicals that I'm being exposed to. Where are they? And and doing the detective work then of are they in my water? Are they in my air? Are they you know coming into a food product or a toiletry product? Where are they coming from before you try to get them out?

You bring up such a good point, and I'm wondering if you have an answer for this. But what would you say are like the top 3 myths that people think, like, so they, they think they're being healthy, but the myth is it actually, it's not moving the needle at all. How would you answer that question?

Yeah, I would say, um, oh, that's a really good one. I, I mean, there's so many things coming to mind. I think the detoxes, um, whether, uh, you know, the parasite cleanses and stuff like that, a lot of times They need to focus on digestion, specifically stomach acid, and they're missing that because if you don't start from the northern spot where you know if you eat some say bad lettuce or sushi or something that has parasites, if you have the right amount of stomach acid, you just get a little extra protein in your meal. You're not getting infested with parasites. You know, so again, looking upstream is really important. I would say that one's one. A lot of people are taking a lot of time and energy to change out their mascara and their dish soap and things like that. And it, it could be really good, but when you get your chemical report of what are issues for you, you can be really specific. I need to find what has, you know, phthalates in it, and that's what I need to dig into. That's my issue. I don't need to change everything today. Let's get the, the biggest movers with it. And then I think I think the mold is is is enormous. Most people just think they need to go on symptoms, and like I don't have any of this or that. Blood sugar is the same way. They're like I don't have any symptoms. I'm like please let me test your hemoglobin A1c, and inevitably it's high. And I'm like there there are issues. Your insulin's like at twelve. This is a problem. And you know you're fasted. That should not be that high. And so a lot of it's just a matter of they don't wanna, they feel like, and this is a big thing, is that they should be able to trust their body and just, you know, use their intuition of what they should do. And if I had done that, I would be dead. I needed those tests to show me what was really going on.

Do you think that's because you were, that just everyone needs to be, you know, testing? And then the question would be, well, how often? Or, and, or do you think that we're just out of touch? Like we don't know how to read the signals. We're not truly in touch with our internal bodies and what's going on. So how can you be in your body when you don't even, when you're disconnected?

I think it's both 100%. Um, very, very strongly, I feel that it's both. Yes, we need to be testing, and I think at minimum a very extensive blood panel each year would be helpful. But I call them the whispers. So your body is always giving you little signals, whispers of what's going on. And through my program, like that's where I want to connect. Like what are you feeling with what did you have show up on your labs? Because for me, when I had cancer, I was like I said about a year out of having a baby. I had some extra pounds.

A 5th baby. A 5th baby, right? 5th baby. Yes. 5th baby is key. So, so, and sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt. So 5th baby. That's okay. And you had some extra pounds.

I had some extra pounds, probably, you know, 25 pounds or so extra sitting on me. Um, I was tired, um, which easily could be attributed to night nursing. Um, and I was losing a little hair, but I didn't, I didn't feel that bad. And none of that anyone would, you know, even think twice about, uh, in terms of a new mom and such, you'd be dismissed. And our, our standard of care, like, would dismiss that if I had gone into the doctor. Like, yeah, exercise more, eat less, you know, kind of stuff. And this is where I feel like, you know, the way we look at a doctor, we think they're going to find what's wrong when we go in. And I think people need to be educated that the doctor is trained to diagnose. So they're not going to look for something unless it's like a diagnosable, it's that bad. They're not looking for the precursors of let's head this off before it's a problem, or the, the very early signs. They're not looking at the functional ranges on the labs of where people are healthy. They're looking at where disease has already set in, and then where I can give you a pill. If they can't give you a pill or something for it, They have no tools, they're done, tap out. And that's where, you know, we get told you're fine and go home. And so that whole process leads to us not listening to our body, not trusting ourselves, and, you know, maybe going to Google, but not having a lot of alternatives.

Does the practitioner in you look back at your journey with 7 kids? And let's just, let's just pretend you can separate, like, loving mother, I love my kids, yada yada, you know, all that. Let's just pretend we can separate from that. Do you look back and go like, maybe having so many kids so close to each other is potentially, uh, can contribute to that environment? Is there any kind of truth to that? Or— because, because I've always been taught— well, always, I, I should say since I got into cooking and health, um, that you really need women need space in between kids, and it's actually longer than what most people do. So most people are doing like 2, 2 and a half years in between, but that they need more like 3 and a half to 4 years to actually replenish themselves, that every child is taking parts of you, right?

This is a really good question. So I, I feel like I can objectively separate that. Personally, I like them 2 years apart, like from a psychological, the kids get along kind of The dynamics of the family better. Um, I do think that having 7 kids that close together in our society, the way we're taught to do things, is too much. And what I mean by that is I fully believe that you can actually do it. You just have to be more intentional. And let me tell you why. Because if you look at my birth weights, this is fascinating because again, there's 7 of them. So you've got a lot of— This, and my last one was actually when I was 43, which is you're not supposed to be having babies in that time frame kind of thing. And I would say by far she is my healthiest child, which should not be the case. But I was eating with her pregnancy; I was eating liver pâté. I was I knew what to test, and I was taking the right supplements. I knew how to detox and effectively, you know, while pregnant, and I had done the work. To get rid of the mold and stuff before her pregnancy. Like, she had all the things going on that I didn't have with the previous 6 kids. And yet it wasn't like she was so far out. She was, um, 3 years out, which is a little more than my others. But I mean, seriously, she was almost 10 pounds and like off the charts in all the, the areas.

So maybe it's less about the time in between focusing on that, but more about what tools are you applying in between?

Exactly. And I think this is a really beautiful thing where super nourishing foods, especially organ meats, and, um, the labs can come together and give us direction and intentionality. Because, you know, just to be frank, you don't know what you don't know, and the labs can help you see those blind spots.

So I'd love you to mention the programs you did because I think that will be fascinating. You already mentioned that you did the, the nutritional therapy practitioner program, right? Yes. And then talk about the program you did after. And then you also did Naysha Winter's program. So can you just briefly mention those, just in case anyone listening is like, oh, I want to go down this path? And because, because I speak about these paths, but everyone thinks I'm biased because Margaret is, you know, runs one of them. But I have seen the difference. I saw the difference before she did the program and then after. And It's, to me, it's like, uh, someone who kind of helps, uh, with health versus someone who's a miracle worker.

Yeah, yeah. So the, the Nutritional Therapy Association was my base foundation with nutrition, and you can, you can do a lot with that, but you're flying blind in my opinion. Um, Institute of Restorative Health is what Margaret runs, and I knew before I even did Nutritional Therapy Association that I wanted to do the lab testing. And I, you know, I had already kind of picked it out ahead of time because I had had the lab testing change my life. I wanted to do that. And it was, it was like you said, it changed my life as a, as a person, not just as a practitioner, um, with what I could see and understand and how to correlate all the different labs. And I've done a lot of other programs because I like to of hear from lots of voices. Just, you know, that's who I am as a person. And, you know, a lot of them are just focused on interpret the lab. And what Institute of Restorative Health is really phenomenal at is really, okay, what do you do with that? What does that mean for the protocol? Let's not just give them a generic one-size-fits-all protocol. Let's tailor it to them. And then even further, okay, now they're doing the protocol. How do we deal with issues that come up? Because root cause work is never super linear. It's always got some little bumps and tailoring moments to the client. And usually that's completely left out of— I've never seen that in another course. And then I did, like you said, Dr. Nasha Winter's training, which they're kind of restructuring right now and such. But I went through her practitioner training, and that assumed that I had all the stuff I had before and then just layered on the the cancer layer, which was where I wanted to dive in further.

So you currently focus on helping women with cancer discover why they have cancer so they can learn how to live without fear. What was the why you discovered in your own path?

Oh yeah. Yeah. So that's actually my guarantee. I guarantee that my clients will know, they'll have a list, a printout. These are the things that caused my cancer. So, we go through 10 areas, and I'm just going to pick up the ones, like you said, for me. So, in the metabolic area, I was super insulin resistant, super defensive about this one because I was like, I'm eating only healthy carbs, you know, spaghetti squash and honey and things, and I still was able to be very insulin resistant there. Turns out I have some genetic predispositions that were not making that easy. The mental-emotional well-being bucket, I mentioned I had a very toxic relationship that was crescendoing and such. Microbiome balance, I was not digesting things well. I was like, oh, I had no stomach acid and I had some fun parasites as a result. I was very inflamed. That's another one of the buckets. And in particular, my homocysteine, my methylation was really off. Again, no no signs of that. My hormone balance bucket—I was super estrogen dominant, very high estrogen and low progesterone—which I corrected with herbs. Stress and circadian rhythm were actually not my weakest weakest spots. And then the toxin load—I I had the molds. I also had a couple heavy metals and chemicals that I had been exposed to that had high levels. You know, once you get one thing, one toxin going, and you're not able to detoxify it, it just opens the door for more to build up and everything. Immune modulation, I actually was doing really well in. I didn't have any autoimmune or viral components at the time. And then angiogenesis metastasis, there weren't any metastasis, meaning tumors in other places, but I did have some some high copper and ceruloplasmin that were showing that my body was being told to make more blood vessels to the tumor to get it more of its preferred fuel source and everything. And then genetics— I'm a hot mess. I've got like bad detox genes, the blood sugar regulators, I don't make fat-soluble vitamins very well, methylation's a mess. So, you know, all these areas were really important for me Not as like, oh no, now I'm gonna just be, you know, forlorn the rest of my life. It was knowing these, these genes epigenetically, I can really be empowered and make good lifestyle choices and know specifically where to monitor, um, and where to fine-tune. Oh, and I, I did have some low vitamin D. I, I forgot that one.

Okay, so just this kind of Pull it all together. So, so what we're really talking about here is that even when you think you're doing the right thing, all the right things, that there could still be underlying conditions that are supporting the environment for cancer cells. And that testing is is really something you really need to do, you know, regularly to support awareness of what's going on internally. Assuming that we don't always know, even though you may think you know, you don't always know because you could look really great on the outside, but there could be a completely different truth on the inside.

My vitamin D levels are a really good example of that, James. So when I had cancer, they were super low. I had been taking vitamin D because you're supposed to take vitamin D, especially with pregnancies and things. I've been taking it for years, you know, cod liver oil, all the stuff, and I had never tested. And it took me 5 different therapeutic-grade brands to find one that would move my vitamin D level because, like I mentioned, genetically I really have a problem converting and creating vitamin D levels. Now that I've gotten it up, I, I do really well, uh, with it, but I, I I'm intentional. I know how to check it. Actually just checked it again this week. It's doing great. But it's, it's a— I would never have known because I hadn't tested.

You bring up such— that is such a good point. Because the same thing happened to Margaret and I actually. Even when we were living in Southern California, sunny Southern California, we were taking— we had low vitamin D. We were taking one pharmacy, you know, one supplement-grade vitamin D, and our levels were still low. And then we finally found one that our bodies registered with. And I think this important point you're making is that we are being taught, and we assume, that all these vitamins and minerals are the same. Just take vitamin D, just take iron, just take potassium, what, you know, whatever it is, that they all operate in the same way, that our bodies receive them in this way. And it's just not true. Not only is the— as we mentioned earlier, whether it's synthetic or Natural, the form it's in matter. Sometimes the formulation. So how much the different, how the different companies like support the vitamin mineral, how they preserve it, all that kind of stuff. And so the only way to know the difference is to test, right?

Hundred percent. Yeah, it's crazy. Yeah, to your point, like I'm from Phoenix, so you know right up until we had moved and with the cancer diagnosis. I was living in Phoenix. Now I live in Idaho where I get far less sun exposure. And here's the interesting thing, and I'd love someone to do research on this if someone's interested. I could never get any color in my skin growing up. Now, after I've gotten my vitamin D levels up, I can get tan just very, very easily. No sunscreen and such, of course. But it's very interesting to me That shift, and I don't know how much that vitamin D plays into it, but it's— there seems to be a very strong connection with me. I don't burn anymore. I just get tan, which is what I always wanted. So I— you got to test those vitamin D levels. They're very tricky.

That's fascinating. I know that I've heard some people talk about or experience that when they're eating like vegetable oils that have been fried or kind of rancid vegetables, that they get sunburnt more easily. So I've heard that as well, but that could be either deficiency or or a sufficiency somewhere. I don't know, or an oversufficiency. Wow! This has been such a cool and enlightening conversation. I want to just delve briefly because I know about it, but I want everyone else to hear about it. Talk to us about the water changes you made because you did some really interesting research. You tried some different things, and I personally am. really fascinated with water quality. So, could you talk about some of the things you learned? Oh, yeah.

And, jump in if you want to direct— if there's something specific you wanted. So, the water, the water's a big deal. A lot of people, you know, we're drinking city water and everything, and that's where having those chemical testing, you can see what's in your water or what's in your body and then test to see if it's in your water. And unfortunately, this hopefully will get fixed in a couple years. We don't even have a test to test everything in our water that we can test in our bodies. So it gets kind of tricky to figure it out. So I was on well water and there's a lot of, you know, my water was perfect. It was gorgeous. I wish everyone could have the water that I had when I was cancering. But we also, I did some more research into Dr. Thomas Cowan's work in terms of structuring the water and working on that because there's a lot of really interesting connections with the 4th phase of water, the gel phase that it has been, I won't say discovered 'cause it was always there, but talked about more and researched and such that I think we're missing out on. And this is where, You know, when we talk about the juicing with cancer, there there can be a benefit because all that juice is going to have structured water in it. But you're also getting this huge sugar bomb, and you're taking all the good fiber to feed your microbiome out of it. So I never recommend juicing, but I do want that structured water for my clients, and then to take it farther, the deuterium depleted water because there's a lot of research showing that's very helpful with cancer. And one of the best ways to make that is, um, well, I, I— it was just such a beautiful thing. I ran into the, the scientist that was creating these magnetic bed pads, um, not grounding, um, with the, the plugs and, you know, mats and stuff, but it was magnetic. And that can recharge because it's sending the negative ions up into you when you're sleeping. And this is going really far down the rabbit hole, but to me it all of a sudden started making sense that when you're in certain energy fields, you know, this ties in with the EMS and the structured water and the processing of our food. And it's, it's sometimes hard to deal with, but it makes a really big difference. The, you know, we're 70% water, and if the water inside of us is not structured, it doesn't work right. And this is where there's a lot of connections with cancer and such, as well as the other stuff. Again, it's never one thing, it's a lot of them.

And, is Kegen water, am I saying that right? Does the Kegen water apply in any of these ways?

I'm not familiar offhand with that one. There's a lot of models out there. I'd be surprised if it didn't have a structural component. The hydrogen water is amazing because you're getting extra antioxidants, the structured water, the What I don't recommend is the alkaline water because so many people will then drink it and mess with their stomach pH, especially if they're drinking it with the meal. And that is, I mean, that's when most people drink the majority of their water. And that's like the worst thing you could do for your digestion.

Because you need the acidic environment, as you said earlier, the hydrochloric acid, you need that to support digestion and safety of— Pathogens and whatnot. Or—

So that's a really great example where people are chasing after the stuff they hear about on the internet. They're drinking alkaline water, they're taking these minerals and stuff and eating nutrient-dense, organic, wonderful food. And they literally, because their stomach acid level isn't low enough, the pH isn't low enough, um, they're not going to be able to absorb and get those minerals. And so they think they have it because they swallowed it, but they're not actually getting it into the system and it's not going to make any change. And this is where, again, the testing can just give us that feedback of like, am I hitting the mark? Am I missing something?

Yeah. Wow. Okay. Last question. Where you mentioned when you went to that first kind of alternative therapy group in Mexico, you mentioned that they said just trust in the system, like just trust in the process, which is in a certain way is a way to say like just have faith, right? How has faith played into this process? Because I know when people do get cancer diagnosis or anything that feels kind of life-threatening, whether it's going to jail, anything like that, a lot of people do turn to faith then because they suddenly are aware that they don't have all the answers. How did faith play into your process?

I love this question. I think this is a really, really huge one, and it a lot of times will tie into dealing with the trauma. But so for me, I think it was like leaning in on Jesus that really helped me through the whole thing. I feel like a lot of the niggling, uncomfortable, like I'm asking questions even at that cancer clinic, was that, you know, that Holy Spirit in the background saying, hey, ask some more questions, this isn't the right fit for you kind of thing. Um, and it wasn't that I didn't have faith, it— I didn't have faith in them. Um, And it's interesting because when I got home, you know, I'm praying a lot, um, and I started— I did a juice cleanse of all things, and then found the functional medicine work. And after the functional medicine stuff, I got all the testing, like, I got this, I am cool, I am doing all the right things, I know all the stuff. Like, I was very confident in me, if you will, and the testing. Which I don't get me wrong, the testing is very important. My implementation of it was very important, but I was a little cocky, if you will. And I was invited to go to a women's conference, a retreat, and I was like, no, they're going to eat crappy food and drink bad water and being a snob. And I just kept feeling like I needed to go, and I did. And this is where it gets weird. So I the whole time, every breakout session, and this was not a marriage conference. This was not a Like a cancer conference. This was just generic women's. Every breakout session, I felt on my heart that I needed to go home and be with my husband that Sunday night. And I'm wrestling with God and like, this is weird. Like, who does God tell to have sex with when? Like, this is strange. Oh, and God, by the way, I have cancer. And by the way, like, I just did a hormone test and I know what time of the month that is. That's not a good idea. And like, I'm freaking out. And, you know, long story short, I did. And that's actually when they got pregnant with number 6. So I chose to get pregnant in faith, stepping out, not knowing if I would actually get pregnant, um, not knowing what it would do and the whole process. So I get very sick, like I mentioned. I couldn't eat all my good food. I couldn't take all my supplements. A lot of them I could. But not all of them. And there's some really interesting stuff to dive into here that I still haven't teased all of it out. But I got very, very anemic, very, very— I believe I was in a very ketogenic state because I couldn't eat a whole lot. But a month before the baby came, the tumor was gone. And this is, you know, it's in my breast. It's right there near the surface. It was a golf ball. It was not hard to miss. And it was completely gone. Um, and I talked to, you know, several cancer specialists in the alternative space, and they've said that they've seen this, that cancer can be reversed and put in remission with pregnancy. You know, pregnancy is a very detoxifying period for the woman. Um, the body does a lot of really interesting things. I'm not trying to figure it out. I just know that the faith played into it, um, leading me to the different people that I needed to talk to. Um, the different promptings and everything. It was a big deal. But not everyone— I don't recommend my clients get pregnant. This is not something that I put out there a whole lot, but leaning in on where God would have you take this and what he wants you to learn from it is a big deal. This was, uh, you know, I, I was not ever planning on being a practitioner. This was It's a heavy field. This is not happy joy joy. This is like heavy dealing with this, and you know, but this is where he wanted me, and I'm so glad I listened. Every step of the way has been a good thing, and now I look back and I'm like, this whole journey has been for my growth and my benefit, and now I get to share that with everybody else, which. Brings even more joy to me. And you can see it's still an emotional thing because it's such, it's such a blessing. And I feel like a lot of cancer clients, you know, miss this, whether it's, um, a diagnosis of, you know, uh, cancer or a car accident or, uh, you know, autoimmune condition or, or something like, there's always a learning piece and a growth piece that we can take away from it if we can. You know, get over ourselves, so to speak. And I don't, I don't say that lightly or to dismiss the pain of going through it or the frustration, but the way I look at it, like, if I'm going to go through that stuff, I want something good to come out of it. I don't want to miss that. And I just hope that anyone hearing this would, would be able to dig into and feel into, like, what, what can I get that's good from this?

That's beautiful, Katrina. Thank you for sharing that. I, you're really bringing it home that we talked about how this knowing, do we know what's going on inside us? You know, do we have an instinct? But I think what you just shared brought home that sometimes it's not about the knowing, it's about the surrender. Yeah. And that we sometimes confuse the two, that we don't necessarily need to feel inward. What we need to do is just turn our gaze inward, listen, and then release or follow, or, you know, listen and then respond. Right?

Yeah. And I think that it's like you said, it's a, It's a combination of both. And I feel like a lot of times people want to do one or the other. It's just pure intuition or it's just pure testing. And I think having both, because we can, gives you the ideal amount of validation and guidance. And you do have to surrender and you do have to do your work and it's all of it.

Yeah. Okay. True final question. I ask this of everyone these days. If you could wave a magic wand and bring back one ancestral practice, what would it be?

Oh, that's a great question. I think I would just get rid of the food subsidies and the chemicals and clean up our food supply. Get rid of the Crappy oils and the processing such. I think that would probably make the biggest impact for sure.

Nice. Thank you so much for being on our podcast. How can people that want to work with you find you? Do you, do you work one-on-one with people or is it groups? Can you just share kind of what does it look like for someone to reach out and work with Katrina?

Yeah, absolutely. So I do one-on-one work, I do group work, all of it. Um, my website is cancerfreedom.com. Um, you can apply and you can find out more information about the program and everything there. Um, lots of resources, ebooks and things, and I, I can give you the link to get the free ebook, James, for your people. Um, I'm also on Instagram. It's just my name, @katrinafoe, and, um, YouTube is @cancerfreedom.

Awesome. Thank you. And I'm just so grateful that you shared your journey. And I'm glad that you found your why, because I think you are truly supporting and helping others, and you wouldn't be in this place had you not gone on this journey. So I'm so grateful that you listened and you said yes to, to, to, to what you heard.

Thank you, James. It's been a pleasure getting to talk with you as always.

And thank you all for participating. I don't know, there's not much to say. I mean, this was such a touching episode for me. Um, I just, I just wish everyone, as I always say at the end of these episodes, just stay curious. It's, the answers are not black and white. They're somewhere in the middle. And if we don't have that curiosity, we will not get to the truth. The truth is somewhere in the gray area. So please stay curious and be good to each other. Thank you. Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's eatpluck.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.