Reclaiming The Traditional Skills Families Can’t Afford To Lose | Josh Thomas

As humans, we're bent towards convenience. Our disconnect from where the food comes from, which I would say is our disconnect from the land, is just a disconnect from basic human experience. More and more people think they're owed something.

It's me, me, me.

You were made to be productive, not just consumptive.

How about we start with just explaining, well, what are traditional skills?

Sure. You know, I think let's, let's look at it this way and talk about around food, which is the core of, you know, how we've got founded and where we're at. We're going to go into other skills eventually. But, people have a problem today procuring good healthy food whether that is because they're in a food desert. And, we can talk about that if you want. There's different types of food deserts or because the food's really expensive. That's another barrier. So, we're creating classes working with all kinds of different people that teach different skills to make that healthy reliable food more accessible. Whether that is growing it and raising it yourself, kind of the whole food chain, you grow it, you raise it, you preserve it, and you learn how to prepare and cook it and serve it to your family. Whether that's working with maybe more local people that are growing it and you're doing the preserving cooking part, there's a lot of places to enter and engage with these skills when it comes to healthy food. But really, that's the heart of it is helping people have some transformation, get closer to their food, And, just cultivate health both physically and even relationally as it relates to couples, community, families engaging in their food from wherever it comes out of the ground all the way to the table and the conversations that happen around the table.

Yeah. The disconnect between consumers and And really farmers has gotten very wide. The gap is widened extremely. I mean, to the point where I think some kids I've run into, they don't even realize that pork comes from a pig, you know, things like that. No.

Well, and you know what, our content director here at the school that, you know, helps get the classes produced, she got on this journey long before we met her because Her daughter, at one point, they were in Southern California and her daughter, they realized how to disconnect when she saw a real chicken and it hit her that that was what they were eating and she had no idea and she was 7, 8 years old. And that was a huge mind shift for them. They packed it up, they moved to the country, and they started raising their own food. And so, for them, I mean, they were already into healthy food, But, they realize the disconnect of what you're talking about. I mean, deeper than just farmers, our disconnect with our food and all that comes with that from whether it's the farmer, whether it's your own relationship to the land, to preparing the food, to what happens around the table when people actually sit and eat together food that's been prepared, raised, grown, prepared either on their own land or in their own community. It's huge and it's really fundamental. It's something we've lost. I mean, I think we can trace the beginning back to the industrial age, but particularly in the last 50 to 60 years, we might even say 70 years now where that disconnect has just grown larger and larger.

Yeah. Now, a lot of people when they think of traditional skills, they think of starting a fire with flint and rock, or they think of bows and arrows. They think of of potentially even like whittling a stick to an arrow, to potentially even dressing an animal, you know, like in the wild that you've killed. Are these some of the skills you learn or what are some examples of, you know, the breadth of skills that someone would learn should they go down this course? And I imagine, are there many stages to the courses? Or is it like you go down one path and you kind of learn it all and then you, how does that work?

Well, I think you're right. That would be one perspective on traditional skills. And I think that would be correct. It's kind of where do you want to land in time? And I think to, before I get into like the school and where it's at, again, just connecting with our food, with our environment, you know, it's an agrarian mindset. We've just gotten very digitized, very disconnected. Everything's the push of a button, flip of a switch. And so, there's a lot of places you can go. We are starting and we have started, we started in 2022 centered around food. Eventually, yeah, we'll go into survival skills and hunting skills. And, we're actually getting ready to start picking up more home ec and shop skills right now. So, carpentry, metalworking, sewing, soap making, that's kind of the next step that we're seeing people want. But, we started around food. And, that just is out of Carolyn and I's own journey, own desire in providing healthy food for our families, and then seeing the benefits over time as we started working together, growing food together, preserving it, sitting around the table talking about that journey and what that was doing for our family. And, I mean, there's just so many benefits that come besides we know the value of the family table, right? I was just reading an article about this in Epic Times. They had a lot of articles about Thanksgiving and we're coming back to that, just the studies they now know of just the family sitting together at the dinner table once a day, what that does for relationships, what that does for personal security and value. So, for us, it started that. So, the school is starting in that place. We've got a long, long journey as far as tackling traditional skills. But, for us right now, it's classes on Gardening, on raising a variety of animals, you know, from chickens to pigs to the dairy cow and more, onto food preservation, different food preservation methods. So, we can meet people where they're at, whether you're in a, you know, a suburban lot or even an apartment, or whether you're on 40 acres, there are skills that all of us can embrace That connect us with our food, that connect us with each other, and ultimately, again, help us get healthy, nutritious food on the table.

Yeah, that's really powerful. And I so agree. You know, I feel like the dinner table is really becoming more and more of the center. I think back in the day, you might have seen it as like the living room. You know, of where people would connect. But it very much, and then I think, and then it moved to the kitchen, but now it's even more specific to, no, it's, it's the dinner table. Like it's, it's sitting down, being in that parasympathetic state together, like interacting, talking, sharing, loving, you know, whatever, whatever it is. What do you think though we are losing? Like, do you think that the loss of some of these skills that you're teaching has kind of created a fragility within the modern families?

Yeah. I mean, on multiple levels, our disconnect from where the food comes from, which I would say is our disconnect from the land, is just a disconnect from basic human experience. I'm a creationist. I believe we were created and I believe we were created to be close to the land. That's the original picture we have. And when we get disconnected from nature and from the land in general, I think everything starts to unravel. And so, it's not just food production, but food production is just the thing that brings humanity together. Going back to that table for a second, it's not just the family. So much of history, so many major decisions, so much happens around the table. And, for human interaction and connection, food is obviously the, you know, one of the things that sustains us. And, it's one of the things that everybody can commonly enjoy. And, it's just that place where we come together. So, you know, as we've gotten disconnected from food, I think we've gotten disconnected from eating together. And so, relationships become more fragmented. And, of course, there's all kinds of other pulls on relationship devices today, the technology that we have. But even amidst that, coming back to the table is that place where we can put all that stuff down because you don't, I don't know, even the mechanics of eating, right? You're not going to have the phone in your hand or you shouldn't. And you're eating and hopefully you're talking. And so, I think it's just a very basic human experience that binds us and that brings us together. And, you know, we've lost that experience as we've lost our connection to food, food production, to the land. That's just a, it's a thread or maybe many threads that have kind of unraveled.

You know, something occurs to me, like when I was first learning to cook, when I went to culinary school, I was taught to make hummus, for example. That was just one of many things, right? And I remember 'Cause back in the day, you know, hummus was a new product. It wasn't something most Americans grew up eating.

New to Americans, right?

Yes, specifically Americans. Yeah. But it, it sort of had this international, you know, glamorous kind of don't understand it kind of feel to it. And then when I learned it and I was like, wait a second, it's just 3 ingredients. Like what? Like, and how simple it was to make to a degree. I felt so empowered. Like, I was just like, oh, this thing that felt so impossible is suddenly possible.

Hmm.

Do you think that in a sense that most Americans are kind of carrying around that, like, myth or that kind of disempowered feeling around these traditional skills? Like, do you think they're They're easier than people are led to believe, or is it all really, no, this is challenging and you got to give it time to learn? Or is it just, is it like this, the disconnect, is the disconnect what's making it seem so impossible for some people?

I think it's a mix of both. You know, I mean, as humans, we're bent towards convenience. And so, You know, we'll give up a lot of value for convenience, you know, and I think that's something we just have to reckon with our nature. And so, you know, modern industrial food system is convenient. You know, you can go grab it up, barely unpeel a wrapper and, and, you know, you're good to go. So there's that convenience that makes a disconnect as far as learning the skills. You know, it, yeah, it takes time. I mean, that's why we're here to help help speed that gap up because so many people are wanting to get reconnected with their food and learn some of these skills. But, the generational pass-down, the generational knowledge is broken. And so, yes, it's an extra effort than if you just grew up learning a lot of these things that have been natural until the last 70, 80 years and passed down and just kind of part of your your human experience. And so, we're trying to reclaim that. So, that has work to it, that has some failure, some challenge. And, that's why the school exists is to help overcome that barrier as people are trying to learn. So, yeah, it's a journey for sure.

Yeah. What are some of the things you're seeing, the changes in when someone joins the the school, the traditional school, the skills school, like what, what kind of changes are you seeing in some of, particularly the kids? Are you seeing, are you seeing people kind of step into their power around these things? Are they, do you see them get healthier? Like what kind of, what kind of changes do you see?

Yeah, you see all of that. I think empowerment is, is huge. You know, when we realize that like, If the grocery store stops, I mean, it's a— I forget what they call it, right? There's a name for that cycle of, you know, they've got 3 days on the shelf. And so, we've all realized in the last few years and people have realized in different pockets of society what happens when that faucet gets turned off for a little bit. And so, to know where your food's coming from, know that you have the ability to raise some of that food is very, very empowering. It's very confidence-building when you start getting successes. And again, it doesn't have to be the whole food chain. You may start just learning to make broth and bread. I mean, you know Sally Fallon Morell, she teaches broth at the school, but she also teaches cooking, traditional cooking. And so, you can start there. Somebody might start with food preservation. Wherever it is, it becomes Very empowering to know that you can take care of this yourself and you're not just dependent on what's down the road. I think for kids, what we see as they're involved in the process is they're empowered, but they're also valued. That's something we've really worked on in our own household is that a lot of modern society doesn't really value children. As they're becoming adults. They're just there to play and go to school kind of. And, I don't think inherently that we build the sense of they're needed in society today the way the modern way raises kids where when you're in a family economy as my friend Rory Groves talks about and those kids are helping and you're working together and you're accomplishing things together as a family unit, There's a lot of self-worth. There's a lot of self-value that gets built up in those kids. And, we see that in our children over the years now where they're not wrestling with, am I good enough? Because of all the social media and all the things that they see out there. They've grown up in a context where they're contributing to the good of the whole. And, that gives you confidence. That gives you self-worth. worth. And so, I think when it comes to the kids learning these things besides just what seems odd for us to have kids so disconnected with their food, they don't know where an egg comes from or what that chicken breast is attached to or a steak, there's bigger values here that are cultivating important character traits.

Yeah, you're, you're, um, you're reminding me of, God, many years ago we were sharing on socials about how we were trying to instill, you know, um, chores and just trying to educate, you know, people and showing them like how, you know, our young daughter, and I can't remember what age she was, but she was pretty young, was like helping with the dishes and doing these kind of things and just how how important that felt to us and how many people responded of like, you slave drivers, you shouldn't be putting that kind of emphasis on your kids. You should be, to your point, letting them play and just do, do flip around. You have a nice-sized family. It's like, what are your thoughts on that? Like, like, like, at what age should we, in your opinion, be kind of like— Making kids, supporting kids and feeling as though they're part of this family. So they have to do the things that help make the family run. Yeah.

Well, I mean, to address the deeper part and people like telling you, which I've heard, you know, oh, you're making your kids work too hard and, you know, all those things. Well, I think look around society, look at where youth is at. Look at the demographics of young men, you know, in our culture who are starting life later. They're often glued to the video games. They're not very productive. They're overweight. That is the fruit of, I think, catering to childhood in a way that's not healthy. Yes, kids need play. They need a lot of play. That's how they learn. That's how they develop. But when that gets imbalanced and there becomes this gimme mentality, It's very disruptive. And I think we see that in our culture where when we're working together, and I think it has to be done well, you know, you just can't have everybody just work and see no end or no purpose to it. It's got to be done with purpose. You've got to communicate that purpose. We have to build them up and encourage them, and we have to walk alongside. Like one of the things Carol and I did early on with the kids, and we just, we discovered this walking in the grocery store one day. We were in a hurry and we kept just picking the kids up and going. And, but it was right at a stage one of our children was learning to walk and it was like, well, no, if we want them to learn to walk well, we need to put them down and we need to slow down and walk alongside them, not just carry them everywhere. And that, that hit us at a very specific moment and it became part of our philosophy of raising kids is that we've got to slow down a little bit and walk alongside them at their pace. I mean, that can't be 100% of the time, but, but that's part of bringing them along. So as we get into this lifestyle, say, of raising our own food and preserving it and cooking it, We're attempting to bring them along in that journey and explain the why to them, not just the work, not just chores, but this is a common human experience. And they learn a good work ethic. They learn how to problem solve. Like I said a minute ago, they learn their own self-worth and value, and they learn to appreciate good food, hopefully. So when they go out into the world, whether they decide to pick up a homesteading lifestyle or a farming lifestyle like we live, they at least They're getting these character traits, but they're also understanding just common human health as well, right? And, we're seeing that fruit in our kids for sure.

I love how you're talking about this. Can you give, I don't know, a real-world example of how you've approached this with one of your kids and how you did it and how you kind of met them where they were but also served the greater good of the family? Yeah.

I mean, it's a million little ways, right? One of the earliest memories I have with my oldest son, who's off and married now, he wanted to help bring in the firewood. I was bringing in firewood and he just wanted to help. And so, he'd go grab, he was like 2, and he'd go grab a big old piece of wood that he couldn't even carry and try to drag it along because he just wanted to be alongside dad. And I could have gone, oh, no, no, no, son, don't worry about that. I got it. And instead what I did is I got him his little Tonka truck and showed him how to put one piece of wood in it. And he'd trail me with his Tonka truck and bring in the piece of wood. And then as he got older, he just started doing that. But that was a place where it's easy to go fast. It's easy to go past them. They're going to make a mess. They're going to drop wood. They might break something, get wood shavings, whatever. But by allowing him to do that and then praising him and like, wow, you helped bring in the wood. That's great. You're helping us stay warm. And then we talk about that some more when we're sitting by the fire. That would be a description of a common experience that we try to replicate in different places throughout ages, same as they get older and they're doing bigger things. And, I don't think we've necessarily done it well all the time, but the attempt is not to just give them a job and a chore, but to then when we can come work alongside and talk about what is the value of this that we're doing and what's the value of this meat. We've got animals, we raise all kinds of animals, and sometimes we're having conversations about this animal and the reality of, yeah, it's messy to take care of this animal in the winter, clean out the stalls in the spring. But, look at what we get to eat. Look at what we get to steward. Look at how we get to improve the land and work with creation. And then, yes, enjoy a shared meal together that you contributed to. You helped make this happen. So, it's that kind of story over and over and over a million times over many, many years and at different age levels. appropriate conversations that it plays out. I mean, I guess the little kids tend to stand out. Silverware drawer is another big one, right? That's one that somebody can do super easily. And, it's a mess. The silverware drawer is a mess because it takes them a long time, years to figure out how to get everything there just right. But, just by doing that, they're now instead of in front of the TV or off in the room, they're now alongside mom and dad or brother and sister. And they're just participating and it's completely normal to them. It's not a chore, it's just human experience and everybody's doing it. We've just seen remarkable fruit in that and others as well that we know that are trying to live this way with this intentionality.

What happens? Because you even mentioned, you know, you're doing the best you can and of course it doesn't always, you know, It always goes smooth as you hope. And obviously you're learning as you go, just like any parent. You're such a— from my experience of you, you're an even-keeled, very gentle energy, at least when I've seen you. But what is Josh like when that's not present? Like when the need is like, hey, I can't go at your pace, we got to go at this pace? Or what does discipline look like within your school of thought?

Um, whoo, those feel like 2 different questions.

Well, let's focus on the first one then. So what is, what does it look like for you in this scenario of like, well, when you can't go the kid's pace, you know, is that just kind of in the, you stay in the moment and then later kind of talk them through it? Or what does that look like?

Well, I think, and this is where, you know, I got to deal with my own failing in that my big tendency is to push harder. And, to push too hard. And, my own growing up experience was pretty rough and I was latchkey kid and around adults and I was just expected to be able to come along at their pace. And so, I default to that at times with the older kids especially where I feel like, ah, you should have this down. And so, that would be a weakness in my own shepherding is just the tendency to push too hard and like, come on, why don't you have this? Let's go. Let's go, let's go, we're out of time, and increase pressure. And, I mean, we all got to deal with pressure sometimes and you do have to know like, hey, I got to pick this up, I got to get done, I got to pay attention. And so, there's an appropriateness to that, but that would be one of my struggles in trying to shepherd well on that pace is being patient when the pressure is on and not pushing too hard, which you can certainly do.

How do you react to that though different from how you were taught? Like, do you find that you have a little bit more mindfulness about it? Because I, I know with my own self, like, I also have a different upbringing than what I'm bringing to my daughters. And one of the big differences is similar. Like, I was kind of pushed into someone else's pace. And what I find is when I'm kind of in a state due to my own doing, you know, my own kind of perspective, I'm able, even in that state, to say this isn't about you. Like, I'm feeling upset right now. You don't need to take this on, but I need to be upset. You know what I mean? So I'm able to separate my feelings from projection onto my kids or my family. My parent, my father particularly, was never able to do that. And so I'm just curious because you're a smart, sensitive person. It's like how How are you doing it differently or are you?

Well, that's a long journey because you can be smart and sensitive, but emotional habits and patterns are strong. And so, what I try to do, I have to be attuned to the kids. And a lot of this is with the guys particularly and realize when something's off, it's often me. I've caused it. I've pushed too hard. And it might be over weeks or something or a period of time where it's coming out. And so, you see it and I've got to be able to say, hey, what's going on? And invite and sometimes coax the story that comes into they're not feeling appreciated or they're feeling overpressured or they're not feeling valued because I've been in that mode whether it's once, but I think usually it's like this growing thing. And so, I think willing to be humble and willing to hear that and understand that experience and acknowledge it. And then, hearing that though helps me go, oh, yeah, okay, I'm defaulting into this place. And, hey, thank you for sharing. I'm a human like you growing and I know I'm dad, papa, but I make mistakes too and I'm sorry. Yeah.

Which is very different, right? Different from how our parents' generation taught us, right? It's like—

Oh, yeah.

Even that humbleness of like, hey, I'm human, Because I always saw my dad and mom to a degree, like, as superhumans, like they could do no wrong. And they very much filled that role. You know what I mean? Like they treated it as though they were superhuman. And so that's really powerful that you are bringing that perspective because I think that is a new perspective.

Well, and I think as humans, that's the best we can do is when we realize we're off track as quickly as we can look to get back on track, try to restore relationship, Be willing to listen and hear because we're all going to do it wrong. We're human. We're going to err, right? As a Christian, I would say we're going to sin. And, we've got to be willing to be humble. And sometimes, I'm a hardhead. Takes a while sometimes. But hopefully, the kids see on this journey as they're learning these other values around traditional skills and homesteading and the land and food, We're growing as human beings and they're seeing that their parents are also growing as human beings. They're not just parents that are the king and the queen or whatever, and this is just how it is. I mean, there's got to be authority and structure and all of that, but we're also all humans. We're all God's children, I would say, growing and learning who it is that we are to be. And, we've got to try to be humble about that and walk the road together even though we're the parents shepherding the children. And, you know, through this life.

Yeah. Now, do you see, do you see a difference in teaching these traditional skills to a male or female? Is it different how you teach them? And is it a different skill?

I mean, yeah, we're different. So, you know, I'm, I mean, obviously, as a parent, you're working with both, but it's not 100% even like the guys do all the outside work and the girls do all the inside work. And so, guys are usually with dad, girls usually— and that usually would be the case, but not all the time. We try to cross it over, but there also just has to be efficiency in life. So, I think you have to take each person when it comes to working with somebody, male, female is part of it, but each person has their personality and character. And, that's something we've had to learn in a large family is We've got our, say, general parenting philosophy, but each individual is unique. And so, we have to learn how to approach them over time whether they're a male or a female. And yes, of course, the girls could be more sensitive and—

And the boys more rough.

And the boys more rough, but it's easy to forget sometimes. It's easy to lose the fact that the boys still have feelings and they can get hurt and you don't see it. And honestly, same with the girls. Sometimes some of the girls are pretty put together and you don't always see that they're emotionally sensitive because we're all different. And I think that's part of our responsibility is trying to see each person and understand them for who they are and how we're impacting them as parents and how the world's impacting them. Do you think— But I think these skills of living this life this way, provides a lot of good ground for those experiences. I think that's, you know, it's easy to talk about the food and the health and all of those benefits that so many people are after today and kind of where this conversation started. But this life, what I would wrap up in the word like this agrarian life, and that doesn't mean everybody's farming, but just that we're more connected to the land, we're more connected locally, which means our families are more connected, The human experience has a lot more opportunity for us to know each other and experience each other and grow together in this context that is the antithesis to the modern life that's getting us all sucked in more and more into our individual lanes and less connectivity individually. Or, where we can escape that where we do got to connect. Well, I can go, all right, you're not feeding into me, so I don't even need to deal with you. I'll just you know, go find what I want to look at on Facebook or Pinterest or whatever and find my worth or my something there. And then, you're not dealing with the relationships even though you have them. The agrarian life is just something else.

Yeah. I like that perspective though is you're really facing the relationships head-on. You're kind of not only instilling but But modeling how to do that when you stay engaged with each other, you're listening, you're curious, and you have the greater good in mind.

Well, and you have to, like, like, this has come back to like raising your own food or preserving it. There's all these people, you know, and we can talk about the family, but, you know, community, it happens in community too where, you know, your food's coming from here and it's got to get from this person. And there's a couple people maybe responsible for the garden or, or this over here, but then it's got to make its way to the kitchen. I mean, the dairy cow is a great example. One person's often milking the cow, another person's often feeding the cow. That milk's then getting in and it's got to get processed in the kitchen. And so, there's all this relationship that happens just in that process, say, of taking care of a dairy cow in our scenario and different people that by the time you sit down and you enjoy homemade butter or homemade cheese or whatever it is to just leave it in that particular context, Um, there's a lot of relationship that has happened and a lot of interaction, you know, to just get to that point at the table. And sometimes you're talking about that because you're talking about your experience out there today. Man, it was cold, or it was this or that, or hey, I had this problem, or, or on top of, wow, but the butter is so good, we, we love it, you know, and thanks, you know. And so it's just this beautiful web that happens where so much life happens.

I love that though, because to your point, like, when you're a part of the system that brings the nourishment to the family and you're savoring the texture, the flavor of what you've all co-created, you have more of an agency or kind of more kind of like investment in like, oh wow, like this is good and I supported this process.

Yeah. Well, and I helped. And so, you know, the 8-year-old, Even the 5-year-old is learning that they're contributing to the family table. Everybody says dad brings home the bacon or whatever, right? But in this context, everybody's contributing somehow. And hopefully everybody's seeing that, or especially us as parents is helping everybody see that. Here's a whole nother vein if I can go down a little bit of a different trail. And this is being producers, not just consumers. No, No society, no nation, no town, no family, no person can survive long-term consuming more than they produce.

Right.

It's a limitation. We're in a point in civilization right now where we're faking that to a degree where we can. We've got some crutches that are allowing us, and debt is a big one of them. But we're also depleting the landscape and we've got fertilizers and synthetics that are having to get— we don't see it, but they're having to get applied heavier and heavier because we're degrading the landscape. We're pulling more out of it and we're not putting enough back into it. And so, this is happening in different places and we can't fix all of that, but we can start in the home and teach our children that you were made to be productive, not just consumptive. And you're going to feel better about yourself when you are a producer in this world. And you're also just contrib— we're all contributing the good— the greater good when we learn that we have got to produce more than we consume just to survive. That's a principle we can't get around. We can fake it. We got a lot of technology that's helping us stretch it out. But I think we also— I don't want to go doom and gloom, but we've got consequences to face eventually. Because we are such a consumerist people today. And, you know, so our goal is to turn that around both with the family, but even when we're teaching the skills. And, you know, what happens when you go to learn these skills? Well, if you're going to learn these, you got to spend time and you do have to spend a little bit of money. Ultimately, the rewards, you know, people are finding are greater than, you know, and they're worth that time and money. But you're also not consuming somewhere. You're saying, I'm not going to go buy those Starbucks this week, or I'm not going to buy the candy, or I'm going to go to a few less movies. Whatever it is for you, if you're going to tackle this, well, you're going to consume a little less because you're investing over here. That creates a really, really cool cycle in somebody's life, whether it's individual or a household. Yeah.

I love this because there's so much of Modern tech to a degree is about consumption and it's not, you know, we constantly—

It's all about consumption.

Yeah, we're constantly saying that to our kids of like, when they're like, well, I want to have screen time. I'm like, look, we'd give you screen time if you were actually producing something, but you're just consuming. Like it's, you're not actually doing anything with your time. You're not researching, you're not learning something new. You're literally just watching some pain, you know, very painful in my judgment, like a short, stupid video, you know, in my judgment.

Right.

But do you think that this, what you said, you know, you start out kind of talking about the convenience, you know, so this convenience culture, do you think it's creating dependence, you know, on this kind of creating dependence on what exactly you guys are trying to counteract, like the dependence on the current system?

Oh, absolutely. It's creating dependence on the current system. I mean, again, go back to talking about the kids that are raised like, oh no, you shouldn't be having them doing chores. They need more playtime. They need more of this.

It's me, me, me.

And I mean, there's a whole nother conversation we can have. I think I think this has been done intentionally. I think it's engineered to a degree, but regardless of whether it's engineered or just what we've defaulted to in our human experience, it's absolutely cultivating dependence on large systems and on government systems. More and more people think they're owed something, whether it's from the government. As myself, as an entrepreneur that's employed many, many people, a lot of the younger people particularly, and I used to build custom homes and construction, and I didn't even 25 years ago, So I was seeing it, I was watching the young men shift and getting this higher expectation instead of like just the normal expectation that, yeah, I'm going to start on the shovel, I'm going to work hard, I'm going to sweat, I'm not going to get paid a lot. And as I show myself, you work your way up, right? And more and more people expect to just be lifted up and that's not healthy. And paid for Oh, and paid for it.

Yeah. And paid for it without having earned it. Yeah. It's very troubling. The entitlement, you know, I think that's the word I would probably use is that entitlement. What, you know, I have this theory that basically like self-driving cars, for example, I think they're inevitable. I think they're coming. And I suspect that the skill of driving will one day be obsolete for most people. Like you just won't need to know how to drive because you are always taking a self-driving car, just like in a sense riding a horse. You don't really need to know how to ride a horse to, you know, be a part of society anymore. Whereas back in the day, you had to know how to ride a horse, right?

Right.

So what skills do you predict will matter most in the next 10 or 20 years?

I guess matter most from which perspective? If it's human health, I think we've got to stay grounded and connected to the land, to our food production. And I think we can use technology to do that. I agree with you that the technology is inevitable. Some of these things are coming and even the phone, the devices, there's a lot of destructive qualities to them. There's also a lot of productive and powerful qualities to them. And that's our challenge is to use these things well, but they don't have to replace some what I think are fundamental human experiences that are just good for us and that naturally help bind us together, right? Like the meal table, the culmination of us, this journey of us working together or— and we're talking a lot family, but in an ideal sense, there's a community picture of this too, right? Because not everybody's going to raise their own food. And so, there are local producers. I got a friend of mine that's sitting right here next to me working who, you know, they've done dairy for a lot of time and they provide high-quality dairy products for the community. And that creates interrelationships and understandings. And so, the more we can move towards that and use technology where it's appropriate to do that well, I think is great. But it's, we need to stay close to each other and close to the land. And then, I think that's the These skills and this, and I'll just go back to that word agrarianism, helps us do that, helps us stay together and glue together even in the midst of technology that some of it we're not going to like and some of it's going to help us along the way.

Well, if someone listening just chooses one skill to learn this month, And, they're a newbie, what do you think it should be?

Well, I don't know if you're familiar with permaculture, but I'm a permaculture guy. And so, the answer is often it depends because we want to look at the specific situation. Who are you? Where are you? I mean, some of the easier skills to pick up are something like learning bone broth, right? I mean, you and I care a lot about quality food and health. And so, So, bone broth, you don't have to grow anything, you don't have to raise anything. You can go and buy some chicken and make a high-quality bone broth and begin to improve your health. And, you're learning some just little bit of traditional cooking. So, I think that's one of the most common places that people can start is because everybody can cook food. You may not be ready to grow it, you may not be ready to preserve it, But, you can obtain some good quality food and learn to cook it and put it into a form that's enjoyable and healthy for you. And, I mean, bone broth's a great one because you can cook a chicken, you get dinner, but then you get a really nutrient-dense broth that you can then either drink for your own health. It's been extremely helpful to me in my digestion. So, that's one that's really easy. Making your own bread, I mean, bread's a great one. You don't have to learn how to grind wheat to make good quality bread. You just got to get good quality flour and you can make bread that is way, way better tasting and better for you than the best bread you can buy in the store pretty much anywhere unless you've got somebody locally again. And of course, I'd want to support them. You've got somebody locally making it the way you would make it. And, you know, we're seeing that a little bit more. But so, bread making is another Another great one. That nice thing about bread making is, again, we all appreciate good bread and we can actually produce something for ourselves with a minimal time investment that costs less and gives more. You can make a phenomenal loaf of bread for under $2 where— and it's going to be better than Dave's or whatever the best bread on the shelf is at store, better quality. So, cooking is a good place. Cooking's a great place, but it depends on where you're at. I see a lot of people get into homesteading and they're very focused on growing their own food, and then they get to the problem that all of a sudden they start to get good at growing it, and all of a sudden they get a bumper harvest and they haven't really learned how to preserve it well, right? Or even how to bring it into the kitchen and utilize it well over time. So, it all kind of depends on where you're at, but cooking is certainly a common thread that anybody can pick up and do Anywhere that they are.

I, yeah, I love that. And when I hear you particularly talking about the bone broth, what, what I hear you saying is that instead of purchasing that boneless skinless chicken breast, Yeah. Purchase a whole chicken that has bone in it and actually utilize, you know, making a broth with the whole chicken versus just a piece of it. And I think that alone might be very uncomfortable for some people and maybe a really good start. So I really like that a lot. I wonder as well, we've talked a lot about in this episode, like just about human connection and community and just sitting at the dinner table. And I have to wonder if like maybe for the person watching or listening, maybe you're not actually eating with your family when you have dinner. Maybe that's the first thing you can do is just set the intention that tonight you guys are all going to eat together or you're not eating with your partner. And I'll, I mean, I'll take ownership of when I was a kid, there was one point when I think I was in high school that we all went to separate rooms and we were all sat in front of different TVs. So my brother was in one room, I was in another, my dad was in his office, my mom was somewhere else. We literally all At dinnertime, we all sat separately and we were on, at the time, obviously there were no devices other than these small TVs, but that's what we were doing. And if that's your life, then maybe your first step is just sitting together at the dinner table.

Yeah. And learning to just make a simple meal, get a few things. And if you're alone, invite somebody over and share.

That's it. You know? Yes.

You know, if you're on a journey and you're like, hey, I'm going to learn how to cook something, or I'm going to learn how to take that whole chicken and cook it and get a couple meals and then turn it into broth, which leads into a couple meals or which turns into a health program, all the collagen and the nutrient density of that broth, but share it with somebody. And, because it's exciting, you get excited when you start to take real food and turn it into something that's enjoyable to consume. I think we can't help but get excited to share Yeah.

Well, I'm very excited that you took the time today to share your gifts with everyone here. I have a final question for you that I've been asking everyone. So, if you could wave a magic wand and give every household one traditional skill overnight, what would this be and why?

Wow. I think it would be I've never thought of this before, but in this way, but I think it would be the bone broth. Like, taking that skill of getting the whole chicken, cooking it, making the broth. And then, I would say, say, like, if you took Sally Fallon Morell's class with us, you would also learn how to cook some other meals in that as part of it. And, I think what that would do to bring you into the fold of understanding what you can do with real whole food, the enjoyment of that, and then the coming together, sharing that with your family or with a friend, that's— it's just a very doable first step. It's extremely easy and it's extremely rewarding. So, that's where I'm going to tell you guys that are listening, like, if you haven't done it before, Buy whole chicken, learn how to make bone broth, sit down, share it with your family or a friend, have a couple meals out of that whole chicken, and it might just change your life.

I love it. Well, and we're gonna put to, to, to give you this gift, we'll make sure to put a link to a bone broth recipe with this episode so you can immediately start just incorporating this, Josh's magic wand gift immediately. All right. Thank you so much, Josh. So, if anyone listening wants to join the School of Traditional Skills, what do they do?

Hey, go over to schooloftraditionalskills.com. We have both individual classes. So, talking about bone broth, you want to hang out with Sally Fallon and learn bone broth from several animals. We all talk about chicken, but there's, you know, you can do this with any animal all the way down to fish. Or, you can join our membership and community and get onto the journey. And, there's a whole lot of people there besides the classes for gardening. And, we can help you figure out where's a good place for you to start, but you also have an amazing community as well there to share, to learn with, and to grow with. So, schooloftraditionalskills.com.

Alright. Thank you so much, Josh. And, thank you all for joining us. I hope this has been helpful. I think the more that we can be reminded of these traditional and even ancestral skills that were basically the foundations of what got us to this point. If we can make sure that we remind ourselves of what those are, and Josh is doing a fantastic job at School of Traditional Skills. They're, they're really doing what they can to make sure we don't lose these skills and that we're carrying them with us into the future. So I hope you'll check them out. And I appreciate you following and listening to this podcast because that's what we're trying to do here. We just, we just want to maintain this humanity as we enter these very inhuman modern times. Thank you all. And stay curious. Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's E-A-T-P-L-U-C-K.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.