Reverse Depression, Body Dysmorphia, and Fertility Issues with a Radical Return to Ancestral Eating | Maria Emmerich

Welcome back to Everyday Ancestral, the podcast that brings ancestral wisdom into modern life. I'm your host, James Barry, and I'll be the first to admit, I do not have all the answers. I am curious and I am listening. And I think that the more we can listen, the more we learn about our own selves and bodies. There is a great quote from Maya Angelou, Which is do the best you can until you know better. Then when you know better, do better. It's all we can do, right? And that really sums up my next guest, Marie Emmerich. She's a bestselling author and leading voice in the keto and carnivore space. She joins us to share how reversing her own struggles with depression, infertility, and body dysmorphia through nutrition led to a global food-as-medicine movement. From parenting in a junk food world to decoding health myths, this episode is raw, real, and deeply empowering. Thank you for joining us. Please enjoy Marie Emmerich. You are just known really around the world for your, the keto diet, now for carnivore. And I have to ask, after all these years of Supporting people in dieting, specifically with keto, is there a secret to losing weight?

Secret is I need to know what your why is, because what your why is, is going to drive how I design a program for you. Because let's be honest, 99% of people want to lose weight. And if your why is to lose weight, you need to let your body fat fuel your ketosis. You don't need to be piling a stick of butter onto a ribeye and drinking a coffee filled with MCT oil, butter, and cream, cuz that will have you gain weight rather than lose it. Does that make sense?

So basically you're saying that you can get too much fat. Doesn't matter the source.

100%. When I test people's blood, when they are adding a stick of butter to a ribeye, And they are not athletic. They are not lean. Their triglycerides are going through the roof. Their blood sugars are getting worse. If they're already a type 2 diabetic, they're needing more insulin. So it is not safe. It is not healthy. It is not what I would recommend.

What I love about how you've talked about it in, on other mediums is you kind of talk about it in a very ancestral way. You're like, if Our ancestors were eating meat. They wouldn't go and try to create butter and find a stick of butter to put on it.

And if you think about, we can talk about hunting later, but wild game, it's all very lean. It's all pretty lean. And we didn't have the luxury of just choosing the fatty ribeye. We talked about this.

Yes.

When we were at Meatstock, we did not have the luxury to just choose the ribs. And there's this theory that we gave the lean meat to the dogs. No, we did not. What I also find interesting, I had the great pleasure to go to Africa and we were on a safari and all of our guides said that their favorite animal was a wild dog because it's very rare to see. We were lucky enough to see a wild dog run in front of our car and kill an impala. Do you know what the first thing it ate was?

I can assume it argy meats, but you tell me.

Ripped the organs right out. That was the first thing it did. And then it ran to get it, the rest of its tribe, and they devoured the rest of it. But I just find it interesting that this carnivore community, they just talk about eating beef, bacon, butter, eggs, and that's not how our ancestral— they didn't eat that way. And if they saw a strawberry patch, they weren't like, ooh, I'm a carnivore. I don't eat that.

I was just talking about that. Like, if anything, the anthropologists are now coming out saying like, we weren't one specific diet. We were opportunistic. If there were strawberries on the ground, we ate them.

100%. And I just think there's this dogma that, oh, you know, you can't eat this, just eat. But anyway, I digress. If somebody wants to lose weight, it's like they're not putting together that your body fat can be your fuel for ketosis. And it can be, But you have to let it. So, I use fat as a lever. I always ask people, what's your why? If your why is to lose weight, we're going to turn that fat lever down. If you are doing it for epilepsy, seizures, Alzheimer's, I'm going to turn that fat dial up because that is the only reason why I would check somebody's ketones. Because a higher ketone number does not mean better fat loss. It usually means the opposite. You know, you can put— MCT oil all over white rice, you're going to gain weight, but you'll have higher ketones. But someone who has epilepsy or seizures, Alzheimer's, it is a big deal and ketones do matter. So I would definitely turn that fat dial up.

So what is the difference for you between the keto diet and carnivore? I always saw them as very different, but some people are kind of seeing them as similar. So what, how do you see it?

I see carnivore as an extension of keto. So you have ketosis and carnivore is just one extension of that. So, and I do think it's kind of an ultimate autoimmune protocol. If someone is very sick that comes to me with auto— a lot of autoimmune diseases, I would go to a carnivore level 1. But if it's for weight loss, we do these weight loss challenges usually in January and we do meal plans for them. And the groups love it. They just gobble that up. And so Craig does these meal plans that are ketovore, and then we have a carnivore meal plan. Guess which one loses the most weight despite the macros being the same?

Carnivore?

Mm-hmm.

The ketovore?

Yep.

Why do you think that is?

Because when you go carnivore and when someone wants to lose weight, I cut out dairy. And I think people that do the carnivore diet, they consume quite a bit of dairy, including butter, cheese, all of that, because it's already a very limited diet. Where if I open it up a little bit and include things that don't have a lot of anti-nutrients in them, but they add a lot of flavor to food, it's all about compliance. And when you can comply to something that has more flavor, 'Cause you can't have the dairy in either of 'em. The ketovore usually does a little bit better 'cause then I can use, you know, I have like a Wendy's Frosty that's all protein and has a little bit of sweetener in it. You know, people love it and it's a great way for them to hit their protein macro without adding fat.

For sweeteners though, what are you a fan of?

Something that I use daily and I'm not afraid of is like a stevia glyceride. It's a non-bitter stevia that I like. And I mean, allulose is, if you can tolerate it, it's actually very helpful for people. It lowers blood sugar. It acts like a GLP-1. Are you familiar with Dr. Nadir Ali?

I'm familiar with the person. Yeah.

But he's a cardiologist outta Texas and he did a lot of research about how just having 2 tablespoons in the morning, whether it be in your coffee, tea, whatever, you will naturally eat. I don't know what the percentage is, but quite a bit less throughout the day because your hunger signal is just not as intense.

I know Dr. Dom D'Agostino has done a lot of research on—

He's pro-allulose also.

Yeah, that's his, that is his favorite. And similar to how you're talking about, he believes that it's the best out there for you.

I do, I do believe it is the best. I, however, am trying to gain some weight, so I don't use it Like my sweetener all the time.

Yeah. Let's talk about the gaining weight, cuz I've been seeing you posting about that. What stirred that?

Uh, I don't wanna cry on you.

I do want you to cry on me.

I ended up in the emergency room 3 times in February. I literally had to ride an ambulance. I woke up the next day in the ICU. I don't remember what happened in between there. So I don't have a lot of buffer, right? You've met me. I don't, I got the flu and everything made me like very nauseous. I didn't want to eat anything. I was forcing food down, but I still wasn't eating enough. So I got down to a really low weight and it wasn't because I was anorexic or anything, but I didn't have a buffer. My husband's like, please gain some weight because I'm afraid this is going to happen again where you get the flu and you can't eat and whatever. I was nauseous for about a month and that's when I ended up, they had to call the ambulance. It was a whole fiasco. My kids saw everything.

I'm so sorry, Maria.

Fat is our friend. You know, you need a, you need a little buffer, your hormones need it. And I get that, but my whole life has been about losing weight and helping other people lose weight. And I felt almost like a hypocrite trying to Gain weight. I've talked about this on my YouTube videos about it. You would get a high, like even though I felt like crap, I got a high off that super low number. I was like, whoa. And my whole set point kind of got lower. Like, hey, this is my new lowest point. Even though it was hard to lift weights, it was hard to just live. And I was telling my good friend, my best friend about my situation. And this was about a month and a half ago. And with tears running down her face, she said, do you want to die? She's like, do you want to die? And she's this total hippie. She would never go on social media. And to hear such a kindhearted person kind of wake up Maria.

Yeah. Like bottom line it.

And she talked about how strong I was in the past. How we met was, I think it was 15 years ago. I used to lift weights a lot at the gym. This class called Body Pump. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

No.

It's kind of like an endurance training, but strength training. And her mom came up to me and she's like, do you know how to swim? I was like, yeah, I know how to swim. She goes, do you know how to sail? And I said, no. The thing about sailing is you only get 4 people on the boat, these sailing races, and the lighter your boat is, the faster it can go. You want really strong people that are small. And you met me, I'm like 5 feet, right?

Yeah.

So we had all really small women on that were really strong. And she said, do you remember when you sailed with us how strong you were? She goes, go back to that.

What's different from then versus now? Like, what did you do differently? Did you just go too far, you think?

Oh yeah, I went too far.

Yeah.

And I know all the tricks to help people lose weight and I just used 'em on myself.

See, this is fascinating to me because I'm constantly trying to balance like health with mindset. And I think some really what you're being very vulnerable about is that sometimes that mindset of like what we're striving towards can get dangerously extreme and skewed, right? So our image of what we look like, how you see yourself is not accurate. I'm constantly wondering about that. What's your relationship to that?

Like when I look down at myself or whatever, I think I look fine, but I'll see a picture, like a picture from Meatstock or whatever. I'm like, ugh, you look like a skeleton. That's not really you. So I'll see a picture and be like, ugh, that doesn't look good. Right. But when I would see myself in a mirror or just look down on myself, I felt like I looked fine, good, whatever. But already it's been maybe a month and a half and I've gained about 14 pounds since my lowest weight. Nobody saw me at that lowest weight cuz I was disgusting. You know, I looked like a skeleton. Everybody's like, are you okay with this? I'm like, yeah. What scares me is the sound of the ambulance. What scares me is—

Your kids seeing Yeah.

And my whole life has also been about giving to others. I work really hard. I wrote 3 books in a year. I mean, that almost killed me. And my husband was really sick with Lyme disease and everybody's like, ooh, what's the big deal with Lyme disease? And he couldn't even get out of bed some days.

Oh yeah. Lyme is very serious.

It is very serious, especially when we didn't catch it for like 10 years.

Which is most people. That's the issue for most, that and mold, right? Those are the 2 that people don't catch, but they're prevalent.

Mold came in with that, Babesia, Bartonella. He was really sick. And so for me, I was like, okay, I need to make sure I run my business. I make money so we don't lose our house again because it's happened before. So that was very stressful. And to think about, I've never even sat down to a meal except for Christmas and Thanksgiving.

Because you're working so much?

Yeah. I'm usually, I'll take a bite and do the dishes, take a bite, do the laundry, take a bite, right. You know, like, or whatever, but I never would sit down and enjoy a meal. I do now. And it's much more enjoyable.

What do you think that's about though? Because even when we were at Meatstock, you wouldn't leave the kitchen. Like you were constantly working, supporting, and it wasn't even why you were there. You weren't, you weren't brought in to do that, but yet you, you even admitted, you're like, I just, if I'm here, I have to help. Where did that come from?

First of all, they needed help.

That's true. That's very true.

And I don't wanna be the person where like, everybody's like, oh, I can't believe you're here. I was like, I'm not too big or too egotistical to help out in the kitchen. And I wanted people to know that I'm a real person kind of thing. But I also really enjoy it. It was really fun talking to you cuz I think like we, we understood each other, but I would rather be in the kitchen than small talk. Like, I just don't, that's just not my thing. So I'm a busybody. Like I can run marathons without getting tired, but to sit and chat with somebody just draws my energy. Right. You know, I'm an introvert.

Sounds like what you're going through is in terms of having to shift your, you know, really your intention and your mindset around your body is its own challenge.

100%. And You mentioned about the dysmorphia. I think that people really get into intermittent fasting and extended fasting because they get almost a high off of it. And people just need to— they're walking a delicate line when they do that because it can start taking over. And I don't necessarily think intermittent fasting is bad. I do think extended fasting can be very detrimental to muscle growth and things like that, but Just being aware of that, you know, there's just such a delicate balance of food and we live in a society where people are, they're hard on you. They judge you. They write mean comments to you, whether you are heavy or thin or whatever. I remember I talked about this in my YouTube video, but someone's like, how do you stay relevant? And I was like, what do you, what do you mean? They're like, with all these beautiful young women. coming into the carnivore space. How do you stay relevant? I'm like, well, I didn't know that they had an education in nutrition, but bring it on because they're telling people to eat sticks of butter on top of a ribeye. I don't think that that's going to work for the average person.

What do you think is the issue right now with how this diet culture is being presented, specifically keto and carnivore versus the reality of what need as humans, you know, in a sense ancestrally. Because you're bringing up this kind of trending, this new person who's now all these women that are now following the carnivore diet, but you're seeing that, well, how they're portraying it is not how you would portray it. So what do you identify, or is it just the fat? Do you just identify the issue with how these diets are being talked about by the majority of people is that they think that it's a free-for-all with fat? Or are there other issues around how these diets are being portrayed?

They're being portrayed that as long as you eat carnivore, everything will get better. You will lose weight, your thyroid will heal, you will not need medicine anymore, which couldn't be further than the truth. And in all honesty, I work with a lot of young women who are in their reproductive years, and when they go carnivore, despite eating plenty of calories, They often lose their cycle. And I think it has something to do with gluconeogenesis, which parts of your body do need glucose. So it will use the protein to make that glucose, which we don't have to be like, oh, protein's turning into sugar. That's what is enabling people to eat carnivore and eat keto. However, it's a very demand-driven process, a very Hard process on your body. And I think when it's going through that, other parts of your body say, I don't think I should have a baby right now.

Yeah. It's almost like what diet you're feeding yourself is informing the rest of your cells how to respond really. Right. So if you're, if you're putting your, your body under that strain, then other biological systems are like, oh, okay, I'm going to shut down because clearly they're not in growth mode or they're not in build mode or whatever it is.

You know, they say as long as you eat carnivore, calories don't matter, which I think is really funny. I heard someone have a conversation saying, oh, I think it's the carbs and the heavy cream. That's why I'm gaining weight. I'm like, no, it's the calories. It's the fat in there, right? It's, it's ridiculous to think that it's like the minute carbohydrates in a scallop or an egg that's causing the weight gain. That's not true. It's It's going to be all of the calories in that cup of heavy cream that you just consumed.

You know, going back to that ancestral kind of way of thinking around diet, I really have become like, if there's any change for my 20-plus years in the health industry, it's that I really do value small amounts now, like the microdosing of things. Like, so for organ meats, for example, I'm not a big fan of like having a huge plate of liver. Like I actually believe a little is all you need every now and then that the concept of getting these and microdosing, but frequently is better and more absorbable. Personally, that's what I've found. But what's changed in terms of your perspective around dieting and just, just where you started versus now? Is it just what you've recently learned about, hey, I went too far, or have there been other learnings?

No. And I don't think like my experience is the same as anybody else's. This is my thing. I was just under extreme stress and food was the last thing on my mind and my whole life was outta control. I could control that. That was the only thing I could control. It was a lot. We adopted kids, if you don't know, everything was outta control and that was my control. When it comes to diet, I mean, it's been over 20 years that I've written my first book, you know, almond milk and A lot of oxalates. And I do think that, you know, almond milk is not a good idea. I do think that nuts and seeds are something people can, should consider, especially if they have oxalate issue. Some people can metabolize 'em better than others, but like raw spinach. I remember when I was told raw spinach was bad, I was like, what? You are crazy. But then being open to learning new things. My husband's a scientist and I think that's what helps us grow and help people more because You know, we did get caught up in the dogma. It was about 10 years ago, like you need more fat and less protein, right? Because protein turns into sugar. That was the thought. And he was all about like, we need to test people's blood. We need to find out more. And realizing that no, this is— more is not better, especially if they're in— it's lipotoxicity. So most people only have a certain amount of fat cells after about toddler age, you don't grow more fat cells. You fill 'em or empty 'em. Right?

Right.

So this is why it's called like the Asian paradox where people in Asia, they often can be thin and still have type 2 diabetes. I've worked with a woman who was 105 pounds and had type 2 diabetes. She was, was so bad. She was having strokes. And she said, we're such a vain society. I wish that I would gain weight when I cheated because I don't. So I get, I think I can get away with his diet or just eating all the sugar. And I can't. What people don't realize is that fat has only 2 places to go. It's either going to go to storage or you're going to use it for fuel. Only about 8% is passed through the stools. If you had any more than that, do you remember Olestra, the WOW chips?

Yeah.

You would have anal leakage. This is not a good thing. So it has 2 places, storage, or you're burning it. Most people are not exercising like they should. Or moving their body like they should. So most of it is going to storage. And when those fat cells get stuffed, that's like insulin is like a net holding everything back. And it can't hold it back anymore when those fat cells are getting stuffed. That's going to happen with excess amounts of fat. So I just want people to be aware of that. I'm not saying eat no fat. I'm not saying that, but putting butter on top of a ribeye. Is excessive if you're not already lean.

Do you see, like, if someone is eating a lean protein, whether it's fish or wild game, do you think that they should add it then? Or is it more like, you know, you're getting enough fat in your diet? Ideally, you don't have to add it to these other foods.

It's important to know where they're at. If they're trying to lose 100 pounds, eating the fish alone is just fine. You know, you only need about maybe 30 grams of fat a day. And most people get that if you're there eating some whole eggs, you know, some salmon, they're going to get that 30 grams. I have a Protein-Sparing Modified Fast book. I don't know if you're familiar with that. It's very hard to get below like 20, 25 grams of fat. Like it was really, really hard. Even using egg whites, even using fish. chicken breasts, you know, it was, it was hard to get that low.

What are you doing differently than to gain weight? Are you just eating more or are you changing those macros?

Both more. And I am more adding more fat. You know, I should maybe like document just eating sticks of butter and people will realize how much fat you can put on, but that's not my goal either. I also, I was featured in Muscle and Fitness magazine about 10 years ago, and I wanna get back to that. Body composition is also really important to me, and just drinking all the heavy cream and eating sticks of butter, you're not gonna build muscle on that, you know? So just focusing on nourishing my body every day, sitting down and eating, and just prioritizing myself. Like they tell you on a flight, put your mask on first. It's for a reason. You can't help anybody else if you're passed out.

And I have to imagine something that you have gotten exposed to in these last 10 or so years. It's like your reach has grown a lot. You have a lot more opinions that you're exposed to. As you said earlier, you're hearing, no matter what your body looks like, you're hearing people's opinions left and right, and no one seems satisfied. But I have to wonder if we are truly designed to know what thousands and thousands of people are thinking, you know, and if that knowledge and awareness is causing all this stress.

Probably because I get the weirdest comments, messages, this and that. Someone actually asked me, I can imagine how upset you are at your body for not giving you your own children. And I was like, what did you just say? Everybody says that my kids are lucky. No, I, I'm the lucky one. If you have the honor of meeting my children, you will understand how— I'm sure people see us as an adoptive family. We're different colors. But to us, like, they're an extension of my arm. And for someone to say that, you know, and it's not even about just my size or whatever, it's It's everything. It's why did you adopt Black kids? Why did you know your, your husband can't stand up straight? It's like, dude, if people just had a little bit of kindness and compassion. And my latest YouTube video was with a few of my girlfriends. I had a little get-together. I rented a cabin. They came from Canada, Ohio, like all over the place. And I was like, hey, do you guys want to be a part of my weight gain video? Because right now they're, they're all different sizes and they talk about how, yeah, I was really thin at one point. Now I'm heavier and this is my struggle. And my whole point was that just by looking at somebody, you can't, you don't know their story.

Yeah.

Even though I'm pretty open, you still don't know my whole story. You just don't. And to have compassion for people, because I think we've lost it with the online community.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, let, I wanted to dig into more of your story actually, because something I learned from you when we met was that you hunt, like you, you grew up kind of like a very, very outdoor, what we would call kind of living some, some very specific ancestral lifestyles. Can you share about that?

My dad owned a plumbing and heating business. And so he was working all the time. I loved him very much. I wanted to spend time with him and he loved to hunt. We don't gun hunt, but we bow hunt with a bow and arrow. Everybody's like, bull hunt? I'm like, no, bow hunt. I started bow hunting when I was 11, and then when I was 12, I could go by myself or, you know, sitting in the stand by myself. Whitetail deer is primarily what I bow hunt. Actually, I live in Hawaii in the wintertime and there's no season for access deer there, but you could hunt all year round.

Is it boar? What's, what's it primarily?

Access deer. Oh, access.

That's primarily what you can hunt. What about, I thought there were all these wild boar on the island.

Yeah, you can, but I, I've never hunted them before. I'm not super familiar about the strategies, but deer I know a lot about. And access deer is such a nuisance in, uh, Maui specifically that you could hunt all year round, which I find very fascinating cuz here You know, it starts about September 16th and I'm out there all the time.

Bow hunting is like the most primal way to hunt. So what is that like? Because you, you can't mess up, right?

No, you can't mess up. You need to be a really good shot. And it's always a joke that in the family, I'm the best shot because my brother, he just gets so excited, he'll just shoot. And it's like, no, it has to be a perfect shot. They have to be so close to you that, I mean, if the wind is wrong, they're going to smell you. Like with a gun, they can be so far, but it's a lot of strategy about where they're going to come from, which way the wind is blowing. We have a lot of land here. I have a bunch of stands and the stand I'm going to pick is depending on which way the wind is blowing that morning. Because I don't want to sit in that stand if the wind is going that way, because it's going to go towards a trail that they come from. But also You have to be a really good shot. I have, have had the opportunity to hunt moose in Saskatchewan.

With a bow?

I was gonna go with a bow and my dad's like, don't. Yeah. He's like, don't, because you have to be so close. They can be very aggressive and you don't know that animal like, you know, a deer. Like I know right where to shoot for a deer. And he's like, that animal's so big and you're not familiar with it. And Just had a lot of good advice with that. So there was a long story where I wasn't able to go, but hopefully like the invitation's still open. So hopefully I'll have time. There's just too much work right now. I can't, I can't leave.

Your dad was a hunter, so you ate a lot of venison, right? But then you did go through a period where you had kind of fallen into that kind of standard American diet, right? What was there a disconnect or was that, it was, was that always kind of prevalent? They both coexisted in your youth.

They both coexisted. Like we hunt, we fish and, you know, you, you don't get to hunt or fish if you're not going to eat it. That was kind of the rule. So our freezers were always filled with meat and stuff, but it was always paired with rice, pasta, you know, and I was a really picky kid. I'm still a picky eater and If I didn't want to eat the, you know, the stir fry they made with the venison, I could eat white rice with cinnamon and sugar and skim milk on it. Like, what? That's terrible. But we always ate venison. It can be gamey, but you have to know how to, you know, have to know how to make it.

Now you've written about how food impacts mood and behavior, especially in children. What is it that you wish every parent knew about this?

People should know that their lives could be so much better if their kids ate less sugar, less food dye, less all the things. My kids are awesome to be. I love to be around them because they eat such a healthy— I don't make them eat carnivore, but they're very animal-based.

And it seems real food-based too, right?

Real food-based. Yeah. And they know how to cook. They're 14 and 16 now. They know how to cook. They have known how to cook for many, many years. And I think that's becoming a lost art, but not just that. I wouldn't want to be around my kids that much because they're throwing fits and have an attitude and they can just— people in general are much more pleasant and I wouldn't have been able to handle my own stress. If I would've been eating a standard American diet, I would've been a puddle. I would've needed therapy. I handled it really well. You know, nobody knew what was going on.

You very much kind of credit your diet and your food choices with kind of supporting your, your mental state.

I was able to surf that wave really well because I was mentally Okay. Because of what I ate.

How do you think we can support people in better connecting what they eat to how they feel or to their health? Because it seems like that's one of the most challenging things to adjust to, to your point, you know, you were a picky eater. I was a picky eater too. And it's like, and you even said this earlier, that picky eating or eating in general, and we are picky is a sign of like, hey, this is what we can control. It's a sign of, hey, I need to control this because everything else is Crazy. So I find that most people don't change their diet unless they themselves get sick or someone they love gets sick. So how do we get them to support their health earlier than that?

Well, it's kind of my story. Like my husband wanted me to change and gain some weight for a long time. And he's like, I should have been more strict. And I was like, Craig, It's like telling an alcoholic they can't have alcohol anymore. I had to want it. My goal is to give people the tools and show them that you name your favorite food, I probably have a recipe for it. Hostess Ding Dong cupcakes, Twinkies, ice cream, gummy bears, whatever you want, I have a recipe for you. And when you make food, you that tastes great, that automatically tells your brain, wow, I feel great. I can't believe I produced this to the point where there's a hospital locally that asked me to come in to help them make kitchens. And it was primarily to help their most depressed patients cook food, give it to the other patients to help boost their mood. And it worked.

Sometimes it's not just about following a specific diet, but it's just, it's about meeting people where they are and helping them to not feel like they're being deprived. So kind of, you know, still making the gummies, still making these things, but just changing the ingredients you're using so that they're more real food-based.

Is that right? But then also meeting them where they're at saying, okay, if you want ice cream, you have to make it. The act of making it yourself boosts your confidence, boosts your mood to the point where Hey, I want to keep going. Hey, I want to keep doing this. I want to make good food for other people. And it's kind of like passing it on to somebody else, helping them feel good.

I feel like as parents, you know, we face a lot of challenges and hardships, particularly with our kids around not only navigating, you know, what food they're willing to eat, but then also once they get out in schools or into public, They're now getting exposed to how everyone else eats. And I'm sure you face this as well. Like, I just had my daughter come home from a camp on Monday and she was crying, just saying, I don't want you to give us, give me this. We've given her a quinoa salad. We don't even normally do that, but she's like, I don't want this anymore. All the kids are eating something different than that. And it's like, but you like this. She's like, yeah, but I want to be, I want to be normal. I want to be like everyone else. And It's hard because I look at what's normal or that standard American diet and I go, well, that's not, that's actually bad. Like to me, I judge it. I'm like, that is not healthy and it's not sustainable in terms of your health. Your health is not sustainable on it. And anyone kind of eating certain ways, they may be paying less right now in terms of it costs less than, you know, making some of this food from scratch and getting these kinds of more quality ingredients, but you pay for it later in hospital bills. And I know that some of this stuff is cliché, but I've found that to be true. Like I've worked with so many people and I see how this stuff plays out and it's not good.

How old is your daughter? How old are you? You have 2 daughters?

I got 2, 13, younger than your boys, 13 and 9.

We live in areas where There's not really any other Black kids. They're used to being different. I myself have always been an outsider. Not that I didn't have friends, but I've always been different, and I'm okay with that. And I think, I know I've instilled that with them. They're okay with being different. They're okay with wearing something that nobody else would wear. They're okay with doing their hair like nobody else would do. They're okay with eating something nobody else would eat. So as they're eating their, you know, hamburger patty, they're looking at their friends. They're like, that looks like cancer, sugar, diabetes. And like, I can't believe you're eating that. So first of all, instilling them the confidence of being different, because being the same is boring. I want to be different. Look what it brought me. Look at my life. If I would've been the same as everybody else, I'd be working at a cubicle. Boring. So teaching them to be different. And second of all, teaching them what the food does. They've seen all my presentations. They know what the Capri Sun is doing to those kids. 'Cause the Capri Sun was on the, we just watched like Lilo and Stitch or something. Right. Capri Sun was big on that. And they're like, dude, you know, get rid of the sugar. So I think those 2 paired together is very, very powerful. But also, guess what? I'm really good at making delicious recipes so they don't feel left out. So first of all, they love the food. Second of all, they're very confident. And third of all, they know what food is doing. They're like your brain, like, oh gosh, that, that's going to put you in the hospital. When you get older.

How do you speak to people though around time management around this stuff? Because that's of course probably the top 2 excuses are it's expensive. And then, and then the other one is I don't have time to make this stuff.

Okay. Nobody's busier than I am. Nobody's busier than I am. I'm working with celebrities. We homeschool our children. Like I told you, I wrote 3 books in a year. I had a sick husband. I did everything. The average American watches 5 hours of television a day. It's about priorities, right? We set aside money to buy this new car or whatever, but we don't prioritize what we're feeding our family that night. That's just ridiculous to me. Second of all, we did a YouTube video. This was probably, I don't know, 10, 15 years ago where I stayed at home with one of our kids and my husband and the other son went to Chipotle. So we made Chipotle at home. They drove to Chipotle. Got it to go, and it was about 2:30. It wasn't busy. They're the only people in line, and it's only like 4 miles away from our house, all highway, so super fast. By the time they came home with the Chipotle, we were done cleaning up. We had leftovers, and it was about a fourth of the price using organic beef, all organic ingredients. It was so much cheaper. It was so much faster. It's not more expensive to eat healthy. It's expensive to go to a restaurant. It takes a lot of time to go to get food to go, right? It just takes time. Uber Eats is super expensive when you add up all the charges. But I'm also all about showing people how to, how I do it, how I do it as a busy working mom with homeschooling. When I make stuff like my kids love my Italian chili, it tastes like pizza in a bowl. I'm not gonna make one batch of it. I do 8 pounds of it.

And then you freeze it, right?

I don't actually, they eat it so fast. They're like teenage boys, but you could freeze half of it if you want to, but they heat it up as needed. They know, you know, it's super easy for me. They love my Mama Maria meatballs. It's not named that after me. It's named, it's a whole story, but I'll make the meatballs and I'll do a quadruple batch and most of 'em go in the freezer. And so they can just take a couple of 'em out, 5 of 'em out, put 'em on a tray, put 'em in the oven. Like they know how to do that. When I make anything, like it's all about planning ahead. If you don't like to cook, get a slow cooker because it does it for you, or an Instant Pot. I still love my slow cooker, but slow cooking is great to do in the summertime because it doesn't heat up the house. It does it all for you. You come home to a beautiful smelling house. And this is what I would do when I had a real job and I had to leave the house. I would fill my slow cooker the night before and I had 3 of them. So if I wanted different things, I would fill them the night before, put them in the fridge and then take them out in the morning before I left for work, turn them on. And then we'd come home to a delicious smelling home. Just make sure you plug it in. One time I didn't plug it in.

It's a really good point about slow cookers or even pressure cookers not heating up the home. I had never actually thought about that, but it's so true. 'Cause anytime you turn on the oven or the stovetop, you're immediately heating up the home during hot months and it's just no fun. That's why I think so many people do either eat out or they, you know, stick to salads a lot during the summers as they're trying to escape that. But it's—

People think of it as a winter thing or a fall thing. I'm like, no way. That's, that's when I get them out in the summer.

Yeah, no, that's really smart.

'Cause I wanna be on my bike ride. Like, I don't wanna be at home cooking. I want that to cook it for me.

I find them also really forgiving. Like, as long as you put enough liquid in, The food always kind of turns out great. You add some flavor, but for the most part, I find everything gets cooked perfectly. It just, it just always seems to work out with a slow cooker.

Oh yeah. That's why I'm a big fan of the slow cooker. 100%. Like whether it be chicken or even like venison, you know, you get that toughest piece of venison. It can tenderize that while it's, when it slow cooks, you infuse flavor. Like people don't, I know, you know about fish sauce, but Add flavor, add umami to all of the broths that are going on, because that's going to infuse so much flavor. You're like, wow, why do I like going to a restaurant rather than eating at home? It's because you use powdered ginger. Use real ginger, use real garlic, use fish sauce, use the stuff that makes really delicious flavors that you're looking for at a restaurant.

Yeah. I always say it's like use ingredients versus things that have ingredients. So last question, if you could design a modern food culture, From scratch, based on what you know now, what would it look like?

I like the word animal-based. I don't know who started that, but I really like animal-based because protein should be the center of our plate because our bodies are always turning over. Our heart tissue's always turning over. Our liver's always turning over our skin. We're shedding so much skin right now as we're sitting here, our hair, our nails, Our whole body, it's like our house. It's the building blocks of our body. And, we're always shedding, we're always breaking it down. You need to rebuild it. And, if you don't eat enough protein, it's going to break down your muscle because guess what? Your heart tissue is more important than your muscle and it needs amino acids. So, I would build that plate off of protein. Whatever protein you like. I want you to love the food, right? And then with that, I think that it would be important to have enough carbohydrates so you don't need to use gluconeogenesis, so that protein can go towards rebuilding your muscles, your heart, your liver. And then adding fat, because most protein does have, like a ribeye does have enough fat and stuff, but for your hormones and things like that is important. But that's how I would design it. And I want people to realize that. They might think, oh, this is too hard. I don't wanna change my diet. I really love my gummy bears or whatever. Your taste buds turn over every 14 days. If you give yourself 14 days, cuz I think some people are like, oh, I can never have this. Oh, I'm not even gonna try. But if you give yourself, say, I'm gonna do it for 14 days. After those 14 days, your taste buds are going to change to whatever you gave it during those 14 days. So a lot of times giving yourself that short-term goal will set you up for long-term success.

I want to just also honor you as we close this. You know, you shared in this how you are, you're being vulnerable about your process with not only this journey in the health space, but just specifically with your own body. And what I think you're modeling that we cannot underestimate Is that it doesn't matter what our heads think. We have to listen to our body. And if your body is saying, hey, you're getting hospitalized, or this is going on, you gotta listen. You gotta listen. Doesn't matter if your head's like, but I'm thin, or I'm, I'm perfect, or, but I talk to people about losing weight, so that means I have to look like— it's like, no, you don't. Your body is going to inform you of what is working and what's not working. And what our job is is to listen. And so I just want to honor you for listening.

I wasn't listening. I would be so hungry in the middle of the night. I would curl up in a little ball face down because it was the only way the hunger would stop. I wasn't listening. I'm listening. I promise.

And I hope you'll also hear this. I'm just feeling called to say this, but like, we've known each— known of each other for a while, but we really got to know each other better at that meat stock. And I just want to mirror back to you that you are, you are such a beautiful person. You're such a kind and generous person and that you don't owe anyone anything. You are enough exactly how you are. I just wish only the best for you and Craig and your, and your boys because you deserve everything you have. You really do. You have nothing to prove.

I appreciate that. I really do.

All right, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us and please stay curious. Listen to your body. It's our job. We got to listen. We got to listen to these signs. Take care. Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's eatpluck.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious, live well, and keep it ancestral.