"Smiling Assassins”: How Alcohol Became the Poison We Celebrate | James Swanwick

The practice of drinking alcohol, alcohol consumption, has been around for thousands of years. Archaeological evidence shows fermented residues in Neolithic China, ancient Egypt, and Mesopotamia. So clearly drinking alcohol is an ancestral practice. Yet this is probably the first podcast that I've done where the ancestral practice Is actually not better or welcomed in our modern society, because what we're finding is actually sales of alcohol are going down, that less and less people are choosing to drink alcohol. And my next guest, James Swanwick, is part of that movement to get people to stop drinking alcohol. So how is it that this ancestral practice, something that's been around so long, can actually be so bad for us. Stay tuned because you have found the Everyday Ancestral Podcast. I am your host, James Barry, and my next guest, James Swanwick, is going to enlighten us all about why alcohol has no place in anyone's diet. During this episode, our guest shares a statistic about Alcoholics Anonymous, AA, that didn't quite sit right with us. While we believe in open dialogue and giving our guests space to share their experience and perspectives, we also believe been doing our due diligence, especially when it comes to data. So here's what I'm asking. Listen to the full episode, then stick around at the end for an important follow-up where we unpack that stat a little more and share what we found. We are all about curiosity, not cancellation, and this is a great example of how we can hold space for nuance and accountability in the same conversation. I want to immediately just go right into bringing the ancestral concepts to alcohol because really there clearly was a difference between alcohol of the yesteryear and the alcohol today, wouldn't you say?

Well, alcohol's reputation is certainly crumbling. That is true. I grew up in Australia in the '90s as a socially acceptable drinker, but now in 2025, heading into 2026, Generation Z have never drunk less. They're drinking less than previous generations. People are increasingly aware about alcohol's damaging effects, and most importantly, people are choosing an alcohol-free lifestyle versus thinking that they need to be sober or have to go to an AA meeting, for example. And people are increasingly feeling comfortable sharing with their friends and family that they're being alcohol-free. So there's less stigma around being alcohol-free than there was in previous generations, certainly.

What do you think's fueling that?

Increased access to education, certainly social media, good and bad, but the good has definitely helped people understand that even one seemingly innocent drink per night is enough to cause some level of brain degeneration. I think also the younger generation that's coming through are just naturally more health conscious. And so they're creating these morning exercise routines, these morning parties, which are drug and alcohol free, and just increased education and increased studies that come out now that have been debunking this idea that a glass of wine is good for your heart. I mean, that study that came out in the '80s has been debunked so many times now. I think it's a combination of just, you know, access to great updated medical information. We've got AI now so we can really dig in and find out what the real effects of alcohol are. And then with more people now feeling comfortable about loving an alcohol-free lifestyle without the stigma, that just has this spinoff effect where people and culture just shifts.

Yeah, it's interesting though, because in ancestral times, you know, alcohol, at least our understanding of ancestral times and the relationship to alcohol was rare. It was something seasonal. It was communal and tied to ritual. And the years that we've grown up, because I want to acknowledge what you're saying, that it is changing, but you know, in our youth, it was an everyday habit for many. And I think that's what's carried us to this contrast we're starting to see. What do you think is that major driver in modern-day society towards daily alcohol consumption?

Cultural conditioning is real. It started when we were a little boy or little girl, when our parents said to us, oh no, no, little James or Sally, you can't drink. You can drink when you are older. And in that moment, our parents cemented this idea that drinking was a rite of passage, that drinking was something we got to do when we were older. And then of course, as we get older, There are smiling assassins everywhere, and smiling assassins are our friends and family and the waiters and waitresses who are smiling as they offer us a drink. Hey James, can I get you a drink? Hey Sally, can I get you a drink? Hey, let's catch up for some drinks. And we're all smiling as we drink this attractively packaged poison, which is what alcohol is. And we move into college, people have fun, they get drunk, they have parties. We watch these Hollywood movies like American Pie, which glorifies all of the fun shenanigans we get up to as we drink. Then we move into the workplace, and the workplace is like, let's catch up for some after-work drinks. And we use it as a way to bond and connect and get to know people. And then we get invited over to backyard barbecues or to football games, and everyone's smiling as they're drinking this poison, and the conditioning continues. And of course we normalize drinking poison because everywhere around us we're seeing people smiling at us, and we're the ones who are the Smiling assassins as well, because when we invite people over to our home, we want to be a very hospitable host, don't we? Can I get you a drink? What would you like? I've got vodka, I've got red wine. And then we watch these Super Bowl commercials, which are very funny, very well produced, where celebrities are drinking beer. And we've got Peyton Manning, the former NFL quarterback, who's promoting Coors or Budweiser as he was in the 2025 Super Bowl commercial. And they're funny and they're great. And we just think that this is normal, but it's not normal. This is not the way nature intended us to live, drinking poison. It's ridiculous. It's very hard to break that conditioning, very challenging, because everywhere we look, people are smiling as they drink this poison.

Yeah, I'm not aware that I actually know your story with why you came down this path. I find it fascinating because, you know, Working with health practitioners, there's always that catalyst that got them to follow that diet that they're professing to people or that philosophy that they're pushing. So what is your story with alcohol? How bad did it get for you to realize, hey, none is good. Don't do any of it.

I was a socially acceptable drinker growing up in my native country of Australia in that I would have 2 or 3 drinks most nights of the week. And I did that from age 17 right up until when I stopped at age 35. Now, in my 20s, certainly I got drunk on weekends and had a lot of fun, but I didn't get arrested for drinking. I didn't get a DUI. I didn't wake up in the ditch. I didn't have a rock bottom moment. It was just very consistent, socially acceptable drinking habits. But I identified in my early to mid-30s that those drinking habits, 2 or 3 drinks most nights of the week, Had caught up with me. I was about 35 pounds overweight. I wasn't sleeping great. I was irritable, stressed. I was envious of other people. My life was just blah. And by blah, I mean six out of ten in my finances, six out of ten in my happiness, six out of ten in my relationship, six out of ten in my overall happiness. Mediocre blah. And it all came to a head in Austin, Texas, in March of 2010. I was at that year's South by Southwest Festival. And I went out to an industry party. It was an open bar. I had 2 free Bombay Sapphire gin and tonics. Then I went back to my hotel about 20 minutes outside of downtown Austin and I went to sleep. And when I woke up in the morning, I just felt mediocre. I looked in the mirror. I had tired and weathered skin, bags under my eyes. I could feel the fat rolls over my pajama bottoms. And I walked next door to this hotel to an IHOP, an International House of Pancakes. And I sat down and I looked around me and I could see these very unhealthy looking people eating all you can eat pancakes with maple syrup and whipped cream.

Not even real maple syrup. Yeah.

Yeah. And I looked out the window and I just thought, oh, what am I doing in an IHOP? James, enough. And I just said to myself, James, enough. Take a break from alcohol for 30 days and just see if you can feel better because this is kind of like Crap, this is so average. You're just drifting in life. And so that's what I did. I committed to quitting drinking for what I thought would be 30 days. In those 30 days, I lost 13 pounds. It just fell off me because when we drink alcohol, we consume a lot of calories. And then when we drink alcohol, we also eat a lot of additional calories like burgers and fries, for example. So in 30 days, I lost 13 pounds. I had an opportunity to audition to become a television host on a TV show called SportsCenter on ESPN. And because I was sleeping better and felt better and looked better and had more confidence and strategy, I decided to go for it. And I auditioned and I got the job and I was on television 2 weeks later and I thought, wow, this is crazy. I'm like, this clarity and focus and energy is helping me surge forward. Creatively and professionally. When I was a drinker, I noticed that when my parents would phone me from Australia just to catch up with their son who was living in California at the time, that being me, I would often screen their calls and I would go, oh, my parents always call me at an inopportune time. But when I was alcohol-free, I was calmer and more open and agreeable. When the phone call came in once a week, I would like, oh, oh, hi mom. Hi dad. How you doing? Like I would be open to taking their call, even if I was busy with other people at that time. And then I attracted a great romantic relationship. And far from me thinking that she would think that I was an alcoholic because I was choosing not to drink, she actually was very impressed with me living an alcohol-free lifestyle and thought, wow, finally a real man who's got his stuff together, who didn't invite me out just to a bar to have drinks. Invited me out on a Saturday morning hike. I'm like, oh, this is the kind of man I want to be with. I'm like, well, this is pretty good, this alcohol-free living. So I just kept going and going and going and going. And I got to one year later at the next year's South by Southwest Festival in 2011, back in Austin. And I walked into the Luster Pearl Bar in Rainey Street, and I ordered what I thought would be a celebratory beer. And just as I put the beer to my mouth, at the last moment I thought, you know what, in one year I've got this dream job hosting SportsCenter on ESPN. I've lost 35 pounds. I'm nicer, I'm more agreeable, I'm less stressed. I've got this great relationship. I'm thinking I'm just gonna keep on going. So I called the bartender over, handed him back the Budweiser that I'd ordered, walked out of that Luster Pearl bar, and I haven't so much as picked up an alcoholic drink since. And that was all the way back in 2011. I've been 15 years alcohol-free now, and now I've created this organization and this movement called Alcohol-Free Lifestyle, which helps high achievers to re-explore their relationship to alcohol. Many of them quit alcohol. They save marriages. They feel better. They look better. They surge in their wealth and their finance. And it's now this movement that's really caught on.

Do you label yourself an alcoholic though?

No, never, never have. And in fact, I don't even believe in the term alcoholic. In fact, the term alcoholic doesn't even exist in medical Literature, it's alcohol use disorder. Alcoholic and alcoholism is a made-up societal word to kind of like generalize someone who's got a drinking problem. But someone who has a drinking problem can have wide-ranging degrees, right? Like, but when you watch a Hollywood movie or television shows like, oh, I'm an alcoholic, you see this person waking up in a ditch drinking out of a brown paper bag. It's all ridiculous because someone can be drinking too much and not be what society deems an alcoholic. So no, I never considered myself an alcoholic. I don't believe in the term. I think people throw it around loosely to incorporate anyone who has a challenge with drinking. And I would just submit most people have an alcohol use disorder, which is temporary. And something that we can certainly fix or amend or improve upon, as opposed to millions of people mistakenly labeling themselves as an alcoholic, which is an identity which is very hard to shift.

I love that you're saying this cuz I have been thinking about that perspective for a long time. You know, I, I sometimes listen to Dax Shepard's, uh, Armchair Expert and he's always just focusing on that label. I'm an alcoholic. I'm this, I'm that. And I've felt very similarly to you that the label is not accurate because no one can be all just one thing always, right? Humans are not consistent like that, first of all. And secondly, I've always wondered, like, is the label that he's holding onto of what he is keeping him in it? So I have to wonder, you, you've started this program. You probably get people that do label themselves alcoholics into the program. So how do you kind of Help them de-emphasize that label.

I say to them, "You are not an alcoholic." That's the first thing I do, and it kind of like what? What are you talking about? I'm like, "You are not an alcoholic. You're experiencing an alcohol use disorder, but that's temporary, and we're going to shift that. We're going to rewire your mindset." When people are saying. I'm an alcoholic. That's labeling yourself. That's an identity. It's so hard to shift that from people. And I see it all the time, especially celebrities like Dax Shepard. I get it. And look, if that works for someone, okay, great. If that's effective, as it seems to have been for people like Brad Pitt and Robert Downey Jr. and people who call themselves an alcoholic, if, look, if that works for you, okay. Who am I to challenge it? Double down on that. But I would submit it's an ineffective strategy for millions of people around the world because you are labeling yourself an identity, which is very hard to shift. You are not an alcoholic. You are you. And it may be true that you are finding it challenging with alcohol, or you found it challenging in the past, but using neuroscience as we do at our, at our Alcohol-Free Lifestyle organization, some mind rewiring techniques, getting in a like-minded community, focusing on health, focusing on conscious communication and personal development, we can get rid of this alcohol use disorder and you can love living alcohol-free. And the way, the reason I'm so confident with this is because I see people come to our organization all the time saying, I'm an alcoholic. And I go, you're not an alcoholic. And then they go through our 90-day stop drinking process and they start to have all of their preexisting beliefs challenged. And then suddenly they're extinguished and they come out the other side going, yes, I love living an alcohol-free lifestyle.

Really? You're referring in many ways to people that have gone to AA because that is a program that absolutely focuses on that label, right? You potentially are getting people that are years of following some other philosophy, which is, that's really what that is. And then they're experiencing yours and you're saying in 90 days they're able to release that label?

Yes, I am saying that. In fact, the University of Washington did a scientific study on our 90-day stop drinking process back in 2023. And now our 90-day stop drinking process is called Project 90. And the result of that scientific study was a 98% reduction in drinking amongst the study participants. Now that's pretty amazing. Now by comparison, AA has an actual success rate of about 7%, according to many studies.

That almost makes it sound like it's a cult opposed to an actual effective program.

It's effective for for 7% of people who attempt it, it's ineffective for 93% of people who attempt it. Now, AA as a brand is fantastic because everybody knows what AA stands for— Alcoholics Anonymous. AA gets referenced in Hollywood movies, on TV shows. People talk about how they went to AA and it saved them. Hollywood celebrities like Brad Pitt, Dax Shepard, 12-step programs— everyone knows this, right? That organization's been around 85 years, so they own the branding. They own the, hey, this is the way to do it. This has worked and it has worked for millions of people. It's worked for millions of people. So if you are listening and it's worked for you, keep doing it. Keep doing it. But it's been ineffective for most people who attempt it. In fact, there was a book by Dr. Lance Dodds out of Harvard University. Called The Sober Truth, and he reported these actual success rates of AA, and he described AA's actual success rate as one of the worst in modern medicine.

Why is it still around then? It's like, I feel like most practices, if you find something better, then something better takes over. But this sounds so antiquated and, and like I said, almost cult-like in that it's, it's not as effective as it could be. Given that it's been around so long and yet it's still relied on by people.

Well, it's still reliable for 7% of people who attempt it, and that's a lot of people.

I guess that just doesn't feel like enough, you know what I mean? Like 7% for something that's been around so long feels petty to me. You know, like, like that sounds ineffective.

It is ineffective, and thankfully people are learning about it. But I don't want to demonize AA because its mission is great. It's Virtuous. It's fantastic. It's terrific. And it's helped millions of people. And like, that's why I'm not here to bash AA. I'm just here to offer the idea that there are more effective solutions out there. Now look, I am biased. I have a process scientifically proven to reduce drinking by 98% according to the University of Washington. I am absolutely biased, but I would just invite your listener Do your own research. Like, go out there and research AA's actual success rate. I'm telling you, it is one of the worst success rates in all of medicine. The only thing worse than AA's actual success rate is probably willpower and motivation and people trying to white-knuckle it. That's the worst success rate of all time. And it doesn't matter how many times you and I have these types of conversations, there'll be many of your listeners who'll still try to Use willpower, motivation, white-knuckling it, moderation, and they will be stuck on a stop-start cycle for years and possibly decades.

Now, why 90 days for your program? Is that— I assume that's scientifically proven that it's— you need that specific amount of time.

Well, there's a lot of studies that suggest 66 or 67 days is how long it takes to break a habit. However, as it relates to alcohol being so insidious, I can just share anecdotally, I've tested this because I've been coaching people for 10 years. 66 days is too short because people start to get this pink cloud effect where they think, I've got this, I've broken it, no problems. And then they say, oh, you know what, I'll just have one. I'll just go back and just have one, or I'll have a drink on a special occasion. Well, first of all, drinking is not a special occasion. Every day you choose to be alcohol-free is the special occasion, I would submit. So what we've found is also what is horrendously ineffective long-term are these 30-day challenges like Dry January and Sober October and Dry July. They're great at getting millions of people to dip their toe in the water and actually experience what it's like to be alcohol-free. However, most of the time people are going into it and experiencing it as deprivation because on day 30, what do people do? They celebrate with what?

Right.

A drink. And the challenge with that is that all during those 30 days, they're kind of like celebrating their willpower. Oh, I've got, I'm on day 27, 3 days to go. Oh, on day 30. Oh yeah. Now I can celebrate with a drink. Well, I would submit, what is the point of doing those 30-day challenges if you're going to celebrate with a drink? Because you've just convinced yourself that drinking equals fun and pleasure and not drinking equals pain and deprivation. So to answer your question around why 90 days, 30 days is way too short because people are going into it just trying to get to 30 days. 66, 67 days, which is when studies show is when people effectively do break a habit, doesn't appear to be effective enough as it relates to an insidious drug like alcohol, which is what it is. 90 days seems to be the sweet spot where people have had a few plateaus, they've kind of felt a little bit challenged, but they've been able to get in a like-minded community and feel really empowered and positive. They lose weight, they feel better, they're sleeping better, they're consciously communicating with their kids and their wives and husbands, and they get to 90 days. And now it's like, now I get to keep going. You know what? I want to keep going. I desire to live an alcohol-free lifestyle as opposed to needing to be sober or needing to be in AA. So 90 days just seems to be really like a terrific sweet spot where people then have shifted their identity from, I can't break this stop-start habit, to I get to be alcohol-free.

What do you think about that concept that, that part of humanity is that we are going to find addiction somewhere? So let's just say you found it in alcohol and then you, you do a program like yours, and then now you're not doing alcohol, but then do you just swing to something else? Because typically that does happen, right? Particularly I've seen it in AA where they go from drinking alcohol to then now smoking cigarettes like fricking chimney. So what do you see in your 10 years? Like, do you find that we default to something excessive?

If I've done my job properly, then the excessive thing, which isn't really excessive, But becoming obsessed, let's say, with health, fitness, personal development, real human connection. I can tell you anecdotally, a lot of folks when they first quit drinking through our process turn to sugar, chocolate. They crave sugary substances, but then we support them with that by steering them more towards dark chocolate, which is a lot healthier, you know, like 85% dark chocolate cacao. We show them how to, instead of eating things like ice cream, we put them onto Greek yogurt, which is very high in protein. Instead of putting candy and sweets in their desserts, we have them put blueberries, which are very low glycemic index and delicious, some raw honey. So there are ways that we can reeducate or educate people on how they can have sugary sweets and kind of get that dopamine hit from what they were getting from alcohol. But the obsession, I think, I think that's an exaggeration from me. It's not really an obsession. What I've found people turn to once they quit alcohol, if they're doing it effectively, is focusing on being like a professional sleeper. They get an Oura Ring, they track their sleep, they start to modify, they start to go for morning hikes on a Saturday. They join a gym. They start to understand the difference between paleo-style eating or keto or grass-fed beef as opposed to farm or corn-raised beef. They understand the difference between farm-raised salmon and wild-caught salmon. They understand about good fats. They understand about the crap that a US diet mostly has, and then they become I wouldn't say obsessed, but I would say like really enthusiastic about throwing themselves into that. I have not experienced a lot of our clients turning now to cigarettes or to marijuana or to ketamine or to anything because they've now removed alcohol. But I do acknowledge that many people probably do do that.

Yeah, it's interesting, but it sounds like what you're doing is you're infusing your program with functional health as well. It's not just about Hey, let's get you out of the habit of drinking alcohol, but let's actually reframe, reteach you how to live a healthy lifestyle or choose a life, a healthy lifestyle.

Yeah, it's all functional health, James. Absolutely. I always say to people, this isn't a stop drinking program. This is just a life change program. And we're going to show you how to do it through stopping drinking for 90 days. So people come to us with this challenge of alcohol. But they leave with how to eat well, how to move, how to sleep well, how to have conscious communication, what you do when you're irritated or frustrated different than what you were doing. And, you know, it becomes very much about the work that you do, James, you know, really supporting people, good health, good nutrition, great sleep, conscious communication, personal development, growth mindset. And you do that through a stop drinking container. Then by day 90, you come out the other end. You're, you're educated on health, fitness, communication. You feel better, and then you're just rocking and rolling from there.

I love that you're articulating that some of these ancestral practices, you know, of like your food, your sleep, your exercise, all these very foundational habits are so much a part of getting better and how you're infusing that in the people that go through your programs. But I'm wondering. Is there, for the person that's listening that hasn't started your program, that maybe though is realizing, hey, I do have a problem, what is like the first of those foundational habits that you would recommend that they just start focusing on prior to joining a program like yours?

Well, look, I would say stop trying to quit drinking and instead focus on what you will do. Because there's a bundle of nerves in our brain called the reticular activating system, and it focuses in on those things that we focus on. So if we're saying, quit drinking, I can't drink, I need to quit, we're thinking about alcohol. And so it's very easy to then drink alcohol. Instead, tell your mind what you will do. And in this example, it is easily only drink soda water, ice, and a piece of lime. When you walk into the bar, I'm— say to yourself, I'm going to go up to the barman. I'm going to order a soda water with some cranberry or a splash of pineapple or whatever. Tell yourself what you will do, right? That mindset shift is powerful. Second thing would be get around a group of like-minded people who also want to love living alcohol-free. Create some accountability because that camaraderie will generate accountability. But if your friends and family and colleagues are all glorifying alcohol and have no interest in reducing or quitting alcohol, being in that environment is going to remain very challenging. Okay? So getting into an environment of like-minded community of people who are health conscious, try to find some communities who are hiking on a Saturday morning, doing group exercise, because the fastest way to get a set of six-pack abs, if you're a man, is to hang out with other men who've got six-pack abs. I'm just using that as an example, right? Like, but for women, get out of this wine o'clock culture. Get out of this, hey, it's wine o'clock. Come on, girls. Come on, ladies. Let's get together. Get out of this nonsensical, let's meet for cocktails on Sunday morning and have a boozy brunch. Get out of that and instead find health-conscious communities. So I would definitely say that. And then more practically, if you did want to get coaching, Again, I'm biased, but head over to Alcohol-Free Lifestyle. We have a podcast which is called Alcohol-Free Lifestyle. I have a book which I wrote called Clear. It's a neuroscience-based approach to help people to rewire their mindset. I would submit, listen to the audiobook of Clear or get the book, but do something that has your incoming information be all about healthy living. Keep listening to To your podcast, I would say to your listener as well, around health, functional health, good nutrition, health, focus on great sleep habits because all of those things combined are going to help you to reduce your craving. Just one more thing, I will say this. There was an interesting study that came out that showed that you can reduce your craving for any drug by simply incorporating a daily gratitude practice. That's fascinating to me. So if you live a life of appreciation instead of expectation, your craving for a drug reduces by up to 30%. That is bananas. Like, that to me is just fascinating, which is why we have our Project 90 clients during their 90 days write down 20 things they're grateful for every day, each day of the 90 days that they're with us, because that rewires their mindset to live a life of appreciation instead of expectation. Which has been scientifically proven to reduce cravings for any drug.

I love that. Yeah. As Ben Azadi says, get more vitamin G, gratitude. That's really, really great. Now, where does moderation fit for you? Does moderation even exist for you with alcohol? Because that's one thing that you hear spouted all the time around food, around alcohol, around anything, is people are always like, well, you can have a cheat day or You know, as long as it's in moderation, as long as it's not all the time. So where does that philosophy fit for you?

Moderation is a myth. First of all, why are you saying to yourself, oh, I'll just have a drink on a special occasion. Oh, I'll just drink on weekends. If you are saying that, you are still positioning alcohol as something worthy to be glorified. You're still looking at attractively packaged poison as something that's fun, desirable, special. It's not. It's piss in a bottle. It's flavored piss in a bottle. That's all it is. So clinging on to this idea, oh, I'll just drink on weekends, I'll just, I'll just drink at a wedding, I'll just drink on a— I would just invite you to reframe your mindset on that. Every day you choose not to drink is the gift, is the special occasion. Certainly our clients tell us moderation is a myth. And candidly, people have been trying moderation for years, and it's a very, very slippery slope. You start off by saying, I'll just drink on weekends. Then suddenly someone offers you a drink on a Thursday and you go, well, it's close enough. Then all of a sudden it's like, ah, it's Wednesday, I'll have a drink. And then it's like Tuesday and then Monday, and the next thing you know, you're drinking daily and experiencing all of the negative consequences that come with that. A lot of people do these 30-day challenges like we've referenced before. They then Start drinking again on day 30 and they return to the same level of drinking that inspired them to do these 30-day challenges in the first place. That's a form of moderation. You do these deals with yourself. I'll just have one drink a night. That turns into one and a half. It turns into 2. The slippery slope gets you all of a sudden. A few years go by. Now you're drinking 3. Now you're drinking a bottle a night. Now it just increases. Then you get into your 50s and 60s and go, oh, well, whatever. I might as well just drink more. And on and on and on it goes over weeks, months, years, and decades. If you are the type of personality that can realistically have a drink on occasion, I'm not saying a special occasion, I'm just saying have a drink on occasion, and that quantity of drinking is controllable and it's not compromising your life in any meaningful way, okay. Sure, go ahead, drink like that. But for most people, for most people, if you're realistic with yourself, if you're honest with yourself, moderation is a myth.

Is there any distinction between what you're drinking? Anthropologists, for example, would say like ancestral alcohol was only about 1 to 4% alcohol by volume compared to today's spirits are like, what, 40% or more? Because I've heard in my circles as well, like, oh, this is homemade mead. You know, with raw honey and da da da da, and like that makes it better. And then of course, even things like kombucha have alcohol in them. Is the what you're drinking a factor, or are we just specifically talking about? No, no, I'm talking about you know, like wine, beers, you know, liquor, like things that have specific amounts of ABV.

The two worst alcoholic drinks you can have from a toxins point of view. actually pretty surprising. Do you want to have a bet, James, or do you want to have a go at it? Try to figure out what are the 2 worst alcoholic drinks for you from a toxins point of view.

I want to try to guess before you say, but I probably won't figure it out. Even though everyone's always saying it's so healthy for you or healthier for you, I, I, my brain goes to vodka for some reason as one of them. But, you know, actually I'm not enough. I don't drink enough to even know what other things are really out there. So I, you know, margaritas. I don't know.

I don't know. Sweet drinks, maybe sweet drinks. Would you be surprised to learn that the 2 worst alcoholic drinks for you are actually beer and red wine?

Really? The, the ones that are the, you know, are the highest volume of sales, basically.

Beer and wine. Toxins. All the toxins from it. It's crazy. And people will go, what? Beer and wine? What are you talking about? How, how the hell can that be true? But from a toxin's point of view, they're horrendous. The least bad is actually some form of tequila because some tequila coming from natural cane can actually be almost, you could argue like in very small amounts could almost be beneficial for you in a way. Now, I'm not talking about drinking lots of tequila. I'm just talking about like a drink, a little bit of tequila that actually is the least bad because it's the cleanest. But in terms of toxins, the way that they make beer, pesticides, red wine, toxins, same thing, like the worst for you. Did you know also that you can take a strand of hair from someone who's had a drink and 7 days later put that hair under a microscope and you can see whether they drank or not? That's how long the toxins stick around in the body. Crazy, isn't it?

Like you said, I have to imagine like having these things like Oura Rings, having something to measure how these things affect us has helped this, this younger generation go, oh, I don't even need to go that route. I mean, 'cause we didn't have that data before, right?

Not even just the younger generation, but the older generation. I've got a client called Evan Melcher and he won't mind me referencing his name, but he came to us, I think 4 years ago, and he'd been tracking his sleep as a drinker for 1 year. And then he came to us. He was broken. He was on like anti-anxiety medication. He was on sleep medication. He was on acid reflux, high blood pressure medication. He had a young son. He had marital strain. And, you know, he'd been pretty good at tracking his heart rate variability and his sleep for a year as a drinker. He came to us, joined Project 90. We helped him rewire his mindset, helped him stop drinking. And he continued to track his heart rate and his sleep over the next year that he became a 1-year alcohol-free man. And he estimated that he saved 5 million heartbeats in the year that he was alcohol-free. His heart rate as a drinker was elevated, you know, because of the pressure and strain that he was putting his heart under as a drinker. His heart was going something like this. And then as a non-drinker, It came back to more natural levels. You know, that might be an exaggeration slightly, but let's just like 5 million heartbeats. Like he absolutely tracked through his aura, 5 million heartbeats a year. Now he's been 4 years alcohol-free as we're recording this. So that's what, 20 million heartbeats he's saved over 4 years. He's lost 25 pounds. His marriage has been saved. He's present with his kid.

Yeah.

He is really loving life here. I'll show you a photo as well of a before and after of Evan. I know that your listener may not be able to see this, but there's a before and after photo I want, I want to show you. Here it is here. Look at the, the difference in Evan as a drinker to a non-drinker.

Clearly the drinking side, he's got a lot of inflammation in his face. Inflammation going on. Yeah. And he looks so much brighter and thinner, healthier in the other photo. I know like Eric Hinman, who's been on our podcast, he talked about the difference in his 20s between drinking and then getting fully off of it. It is incredible.

That's his resting heart rate. You can see how it's going down over time as a non-drinker. And then you can see here his sleep score, how his sleep scores have been improving as a non-drinker.

There's people though that talk about like the disposition gene-wise for alcoholism. Have you debunked that? Is, is there any truth to that?

There's some studies that suggest that if a family member like a father or a mother or grandparent or uncle or aunt had an alcohol use disorder, you have up to a 50% increased rate of also experiencing an alcohol use disorder. That has been established. However, with what we now understand about epigenetics, we can actually control or eliminate an alcohol use disorder through lifestyle and environment and community. So for example, if you take someone and you put them in an engaged group of healthy people, you get them walking 10,000 steps a day, you get them focused on sleep. You get them around a really positive mindset, a group of people, we can change the expression of our, of our genes. Now, we can't change our genetic code that is set for life, but we can change the expression of those genes through what we now understand with epigenetics, which can destroy an alcohol use disorder. So it's pretty amazing and pretty exciting that we can do that now. So just because you have a predisposition to an alcohol use disorder doesn't mean that that is set in stone.

First of all, I love that the guests come on here from so many different walks of life, from so many different angles, and yet it all tends to boil back down to those very foundational ancestral practices that we talk about all the time here. You know, exercise, sleep, connection, stress levels, you know, trying and basically like being outside, you know, all these very basic foundational health practices. They continually come up in the discussions organically, and they tend to be the solutions. Is there anything that you would add to what the person listening or watching should or could be thinking about to break free of habits and certain cycles that are not contributing to their health?

I had one of the world's leading addiction experts come and talk to our clients about 2 months ago. His name's Professor David Bellen from Cambridge University, and we had him on a Zoom call. There were about 90 of our clients all there asking him questions, and he was answering them. And one of our clients asked him a question, what are the 2 best supplements that someone can take to overcome an alcohol use disorder or to overcome any addiction? And his answer was profound. He said 2 things. Exercise and human connection. And I thought, wow, that seems too simple. And I challenged him, exercise and human connection, what are you talking about? He said, exercise has been shown to release endorphins, oxytocin, serotonin, makes us feel better. We get our heart rate going. We're doing breathwork. It's like meditation. Our metabolism is going, helps us sleep better, helps us feel better. By feeling better, we get into a much more powerful mindset, which gives us the foundation to be able to make big habit changes. And then the other thing was real human connection. Real human connection. The longest running study of all time is out of Harvard University. It went for about 90 years and they tracked men from the 19— 20s or 30s. Of all, I think they're almost all dead now, but they tracked these people over a lifetime. And what they found was that the biggest contributor to happiness was the quality of their relationships, real human connection. So to make any habit change, it's not reading another book, going to a YouTube video and trying to get a new secret formula and learning something new and what's the latest supplement and what's the latest medical device. You can really just bring it back to move your body and get exercising because it makes you feel good. And that will inspire you to change and that will make change easier and get around a like-minded group of people and focus on the quality of your relationships because that supportive community is likewise is going to create accountability for habit change.

I love that. That's really powerful themes. And like I said, they continually come up on this podcast. Before we go though, I do want to bring up What's fascinating to me about these younger generations, to your point, many of them are not drinking. But what they're also doing though is they are isolating. At least that's what we're told, right? They're isolating. They're on social media. They're not interacting as much. So is there a high potential for fallout because they aren't connecting the way that we're talking about? They're, if anything, they're isolating. They're keeping their distance from people in person, but they're doing it virtually, then is that setting them up for failure should they ever get a taste for a drug or something like alcohol? You know where I'm going with this?

Yeah, it's very possible. I do acknowledge that it is a problem that people are isolating a lot more, which is why you do great work and I do great work and we need to get people out there really identifying that real human connection, not over a screen, not on a Zoom call or WhatsApp or on social media DMs, but real in-person human connection is the most profound way that people can positively impact their life. So yeah, I can understand that people isolate. I mean, we saw an example of that in the pandemic. We were all isolated and alcohol-related deaths increased 25% as a result of the pandemic because of that isolation. They drank more. And the consequence of that we're still experiencing 5 years later. So it is a real concern. However, the ones who are participating have never felt better, apparently. Back in my native country of Australia, on Bondi Beach, they have these morning sunrise parties now where they have a DJ come out and play. And gone are the days where people would stay out all night and get drunk and do drugs and then come up, go and pass out on the on the beach and watch the sunrise, you know, and then have to sleep all day recovering from a drug and alcohol fueled evening. And they're being replaced now with people waking up at 4:30 in the morning and going down to Bondi Beach and welcoming the sun, dancing, partying, having fun, listening to a DJ, but no drugs, no alcohol, no nothing, just community. And then after the sun's come up, they all go for a walk or a hike or a swim. It's a great mating strategy. You people used to go and like mate at nightclubs, meet people. Now they're like meeting on the beach at sunrise. It's crazy.

Yeah, that's amazing. You know, and having concerts and things earlier rather than everything so late. I mean, it would be, it would be more and more powerful as we start to see that, you know, seeing more matinee times for these events that we wait for in the evening that, as you said earlier, like kind of you associate with, oh, I'm going to have a drink or I'm going to do this at that event. But if they're They're more during the day. We would probably be more mindful of our health and our wellbeing so we can go get a good night's sleep. Well, James, it's been a real pleasure hearing your thoughts on this. I'm continually amazed at how the conversation does tend to come back to those foundational ancestral human practices. Can you share again how people can find your program and then also connect with you?

Thank you, James. alcoholfreelifestyle.com is our website. If you want to dig into Project 90, alcoholfreelifestyle.com/project90. My book Clear, a neuroscience-based approach to break free from alcohol without AA rehab or willpower, is available on Amazon. You can get the audiobook. It's 8 hours in duration listening to my incredible Australian accent, or 4 hours if you put me on double speed. As most people probably will, but it is author narrated. And then my Instagram account is probably my most engaged social media, and it's just my name, @jamesswannick. And I do a lot of videos there about helping people rewire their mindset around alcohol. And then our podcast is Alcohol-Free Lifestyle. You can find it on Spotify or, or Apple Podcasts.

One last question I realized, and maybe I already know this answer, but for the person that's not aware That the alcohol or their, these lifestyle choices are affecting them? How does one bring awareness to them? Is it, or is it simply like, hey, if you're drinking right now and you're doing it more than once a week or something, or more, more than once every 2 weeks, then just stop and you will start to see changes. Like how, because I find it's contrast that really helps someone. with change. So how does the person that not— that's not realizing that it's an issue find change?

Experiment. Run an experiment. 14 days, 21 days, 30 days if you've never done that long of going alcohol-free. Test it yourself. See what happens. What will probably happen is this: you will lose weight, you will sleep better, you'll be less irritable, less stressed, less anxious. You'll be calmer, more generous, happier. You won't understand why you're happier. You'll just go, oh, I just feel a bit nicer. Your husband or your wife will say to you, I'm proud of you. Your kids will just say, oh, let's go and play, if they're young kids. Or your adult kids will start phoning you and wanting to have a conversation with you. The definition of success is your adult children literally wanting to spend time with you. And that will happen and will be a consequence of you being calmer and clearer. And nicer and more agreeable from not drinking alcohol because alcohol makes us stressed and anxious and sleep poorly. So just experiment, run an experiment. And once your eyes open, you can't close them again because you will feel it. It doesn't matter how much evidence I supply you with on a podcast like this. I'll give you the data, give you the stats in one ear, out the other for most listeners. I go, oh, that was an interesting podcast. Wow, that was fascinating. And then pour yourself a drink. But if you just reduce at the very least or stop, give yourself that gift of an experiment like I did all the way back in 2010. I thought it was going to be 30 days. I'm 15 years alcohol-free. You will experience profound contrast. You will experience health, wealth, love, and happiness, and you will love living an alcohol-free lifestyle.

Love it. Thank you, James. And thank you again for sharing this wisdom, to, for going on this path, for helping so many people and for being a model of what's possible. We need more people doing the work that you're doing in all facets of life. So thank you again. And thank you all for participating in this podcast. Make sure to share, to tell us how it's going, to like, follow, anything that will communicate to us that you are participating. and enjoying what you're listening or watching. Thank you again, and everyone, please stay curious. Hey friends, thanks for sticking around. So in this episode, our guest James Swanwick referenced a statistic claiming Alcoholics Anonymous has a 7% success rate compared to 98% for his 90-day program. Now, while James clearly states that he is not bashing AA and that it works really well for people and has helped countless lives. So what I'm about to say has no implications towards James. He's a very upstanding person. I just want to clarify the numbers because you probably heard how shocked I was. And I was like, well, why does this even exist if it's only 7%? That just seems so low. So I just, it caused me to kind of want to dig a little deeper into the stats and what, you know, that's referencing. So the issue is really in the comparison. AA is a long-term open-ended program while most 90-day programs report short-term success as completion or sobriety at discharge. So it's not really about sustained recovery, even though James has witnessed sustained recovery. These stats, though, are measuring very different outcomes. So in reality, AA, they do not publish official success rates, but research shows 20 to 30% of members achieve long-term sobriety, and 50 to 70% of those who stay actively engaged maintain recovery. And that's sourced from Stanford Med, Recovery Research Institute, and the NIH. So the takeaway is context matters. Without it, stats can be misleading, and even well-intentioned comments can unintentionally shape unfair conclusions. Like I said, James was very adamant about not meaning to bash or insinuate AA is not a good program. The takeaway: context matters. Without it, stats can mislead, and even well-intentioned comments can unintentionally shape unfair conclusions. So I hope this little addendum to the episode has helped. Please continue to be curious, and thank you so much for sticking with us through the end of the episode. Thank you so much for joining me on Everyday Ancestral. If you enjoyed this episode, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. You can find the show notes, links, and resources mentioned at eatpluck.com. That's eatpluck.com. And hey, if you know someone who'd get something out of this, share it with them too. Stay curious.