How Do You Find Your First Customers? | Part 5

You know, saying my product is for everyone because everyone has keyboards or whatever else it might be. I think the other one we hear a lot is that there's— I don't have any competitors. There's no one else going out there and cleaning keyboards. And yet the competitor to her product was the staff who were getting paid $12 an hour to work in the store.

Yeah. Hi, I'm Sam.

And I'm Ollie.

Last time on Founder Unlocked, we talked about the moment you decided to go all in on a startup, when Ollie almost took the safe route and I thought I could save kids with bike helmets.

And today we're moving on to what happens after you've gone all in, your go-to-market strategy, because having a product is one thing, but building a business is quite another.

We'll talk about the difference between finding your early customers and finding your ideal customers, and why narrowing your focus feels hard, but actually sets you up for growth.

When successful founders tell you their stories, they often talk about how they won their first customers or how they discovered the problem, but people often gloss over one of the hardest parts of scaling a business, and that's the point between when you've validated your product or your service, And when you've actually built a business?

Yeah, this is one of those things that in hindsight often feels easier than it actually was, but it's also the point where a lot of businesses fail. They win their first few customers, but they don't get to that next stage of growth. So we focus on 3 things: nailing your initial customer profile, finding a repeatable way to find those customers, and then understanding those key metrics. Usually it's how much it costs to find them and how much revenue they bring into the business.

And I think one of the things is that no founder that I've ever heard of or I've ever met has had the perfect idea, has nailed who their customers were, has created a solution to the problem, and then has gone out and has delivered that to 10,000 companies and sold their business for $100 million. It just, it never works that way. it's often a very sort of convoluted path. And, you know, the best example I can come up with was when we were working at Tigerspike. This was back before iPhones and back before apps. And the only way we could— we got customers initially was when an advertising agency had reserved a small part of its budget for mobile marketing. So we at Tigerspike put our hands up and said, hey, we can do that. We deliver that for $3,000 or $4,000, build some wallpapers, or we'd put together a campaign on mobile. For some, we built ad for games. And they would tell us, you know, what can you do for $5,000? And we would get our developers together and we'd try and put together some sort of very basic mobile app. We did it for Yaris. We created a racing car game that worked on Nokias and Siemens and that sort of thing. And at the time, the team was pretty small and we'd sort of thought, hey, we've got this. We're the mobile experts. We're seen as the guys who can answer your sort of prayers if you've got to do a mobile component to your advertising deliverable. We understood who our customer was, which was these agencies, but we were delivering for these corporates who wanted to be innovative. They wanted to deliver on a mobile platform. But the agency was all about keeping as much of that budget as possible and paying us a small amount of it.

Yeah.

And we would deliver to that. And that was how we won our customers. And that was when we sort of started to evolve and look at kind of trying to position mobile as a much more important component of any kind of corporate strategy or whatever it might be. And we sort of started to bypass the agencies and suddenly our ideal customer are the customers we were talking to went from being, you know, the head of digital at an agency to the person in the marketing team at ANZ Bank or wherever else it might be. So interesting to see when you talk about that initial customer and the ideal customer and how that might evolve as your company evolves and as technology changes as well, or as the market changes, there are different needs that need to be met. I think that's something you've seen quite a bit of as well, Sam.

I mean, there's 2 points there that I think are just such important points to pull out. Like, one is Through working with the agency initially, you were able to learn and understand the value that you created for your end customer, who was still your end customer. What you changed was you've got a much more efficient way to go to market. Going directly to that end customer gave you that efficient route to market, which you were then able to learn and repeat. And that really is the key bit of that kind of go-to-market bit, which is understanding that path to finding that customer, like what is the most efficient way, what way is going to support your business, and then really understanding how you best serve that customer. And that really allows you to then start working out how you scale.

I remember we had a whiteboard with a list of all the agencies in Australia and we were sort of speaking to all of them. How could we, you know, speak to the digital person at each of these agencies and help them understand what mobile was? And within 3 months, we were not talking to agencies at all. We had a list of all of the people who were spending money on mobile. And we benefited enormously from, I guess, the shift in technology. Mobile became a much larger component of people's lives, I guess, in the early 2000s, 2010, '11, '12. And that shift was where we had been, we'd positioned ourselves. And you sort of talk about this, it takes you 5 years to be an overnight success. If we hadn't done it before the iPhone, we would never have been there when it arrived. So it's great to kind of understand who your initial customer is, but as your product evolves, as the landscape changes, All these things are what you need to do and navigate through.

Yeah, like that's where your business engine really starts to hum, okay? Because your value proposition is lined up with your ideal customer profile, you've got the route to market, you start then focusing on those key metrics, you know, how much does it cost us to go and find those customers, what are we willing to pay versus how much do we get back. And then once you're winning those customers, you're looking at the really exciting metrics, which is how long are they staying with us? That's that retention, the lifetime value that's coming from that customer over time. That's when your business becomes in a really exciting place. That question of— it's such a simple question. Yeah. Like, what is the actual available budget that you can access? Like, it's something that so often doesn't actually get focused on, but that helps so much to align, you know, is this going to be the right type of customer for us? Like, can they actually afford our services? Is this something that they're currently paying for already and we're stealing it from someone else, or is this something that's totally new? I always like to ask the question, who's the buyer, who's the budget holder, and who's the decision maker? Now, sometimes the same person is all 3, and that's great because you know you have one profile who you're gonna target. But often As you move up to bigger organizations, and you probably found this all when you were at Tigerspike, you actually had overlap in terms of the fact that you weren't just selling to one person. You actually had another person who maybe was a decision maker but wasn't necessarily the buyer of your services. And that becomes quite interesting when you're then thinking about your value proposition and you're thinking about how you're going to go about selling to these organizations because you need to make sure that you really understand how that decision-making process works for them and what they're looking for. Like, what are the key things that you need to be able to deliver on in order to make that sale? I mean, we can probably, you know, look at the example that we've had ourselves at Deque, where a year ago we were focusing with one marketing message on one audience. And we were getting, you know, let's round numbers here. Let's say we were having 10 applications a month kind of coming in. And one of the things that we worked on as a team was we really worked on focusing our value proposition and then how we could test different channels to see which channel was the most effective. And we knew that LinkedIn was a channel that was working for us. That was a channel where we were able to find Older experienced professionals, 40 to 50-year-olds, deep domain expertise. That was a channel that made sense. And as we started testing out a few different ways of working with LinkedIn, we started using a paid advertising method, and that allowed us to be very, very clear on who our customer profile was. But we now had a channel where we could actually put more money into that to get more applications coming back. And so, being able to really, really understand who that customer profile is, marry it with a message that's working, and then work out how you scale that, like, that becomes the key part of go-to-market that becomes important because that's where you drive the growth.

I often talk about kind of the top-down approach. Am I going to try and sell Salesforce into the organization and say, and then dictate that everybody uses it? And it's a big chunky sort of software sale? Is that what your product is? Or is it more the bottom-up approach? Am I going to try and do something which makes it easier for developers to do their job, like Atlassian did with Confluence? And, you know, you sort of get into an organization in a sort of subtler way where it might be $5 a month, that kind of thing. And we all use all those products all the time, which do that until it reaches the point where, hey, when you've— when 5 people are using it, you need to buy a site license. So, all of those things go into trying to understand how you get your product into an organization and how you Just to tell another quick anecdote, when I was working for a chain of internet cafes, I'm not sure if I told this one before, but there was a woman who talked about cleaning the keyboards. Did I tell this one last time?

No, we haven't had the keyboards.

Okay. So I was the IT manager at a chain of internet cafes. I've been working there for a while. I started at the bottom. And this woman called up and she had a cleaning company and they went into offices and they cleaned their keyboards. And she sort of said, we'll make the life of the keyboards will be much, much longer because they're clean and they'll last for an extra 6 months and you won't have to replace them. And I said, well, we've got a bunch of employees and their job is to clean the stores. It doesn't make any sense. And she was like, oh, but we'll do it so much better. It's going to be amazing. And I said, well, there's just no way. I knew that the 2 founders, there was no way they were going to pay any extra money for someone else to come in and clean the keyboards.

They were already paying you to clean the keyboards.

the staff like me to go around and clean the keyboards, which was on the list on every Thursday. I think it was, you have to go and clean all the keyboards. And she insisted on it. Eventually, she came, she gave a demo, and she came into one of our stores and she bashed the back of the keyboard and all this rubbish fell out and it was horrible. And then she came back with a quote and it was ridiculous. There was just no way we were going to pay this extra amount. And she kept calling and she was so irate because she was so convinced that her product was great.

Yeah.

So, even though you can be utterly convinced that this person desperately needs what it is you've created, You have to kind of sometimes accept that they might not buy it and then move on to the next one. She wasted so much time talking to us, sending proposals, coming in and demonstrating it, and it never went anywhere. She never made any money out of it.

And if you take that analogy, because I think it's a really good one, which is it's a reasonable assumption to make if your product is cleaning services for keyboards, that internet cafes would be someone to go to. That's a reasonable assumption.

Yeah.

Just as big offices who have lots of keyboards and employees who are using your computers could be another customer profile. So let's say you were her ICP and she goes, that's going to be my ICP. It's going to be the internet cafe. So she goes to you, she speaks to you, and she's so convinced that you're that customer, she doesn't go and speak to the office people. Okay. But maybe The office people was actually the right customers. So you both have keyboards, but you don't have the same need. And so in that early stage, you're trying to understand the need and the value that you provide versus the need someone has, and you're trying to match it. And once you find it, if she goes to that office, let's say she goes into Accenture, and Accenture are like, oh, thank goodness, we really care about the efficiency of our keyboards, these keyboards. So suddenly, Accenture, now you can go and speak to McKinsey and Deloitte because chances are McKinsey and Deloitte are going to think about their keyboards in the same way. But Ol's Internet Cafe, Global Backpackers, that's not the same. But I think that's a great example of why it is so important to go and first of all speak and listen. She clearly wasn't listening.

And I think just We're going to push this analogy way too far. So, but—

You're still— we've got another one.

The other thing about that is saying my product is for everyone because everyone has keyboards or whatever else it might be. I think the other one we hear a lot is that there's— I don't have any competitors. There's no one else going out there and cleaning keyboards. I specifically clean keyboards. I keep it going. And yet the competitor to her product was the staff who were getting paid $12 an hour to work in the store. So understanding that there is always other options to your product. One of the biggest competitors is just them not paying you. Sorry, I don't need that. It doesn't do enough for me. The answer is no.

And I think just one final point on this section, Ol, is often when we are very clear that we need to narrow down so that we can learn and understand and find out what works, one of the things that I hear founders say is that, but if we're narrowing down, Surely we're leaving money on the table. Like, they're worried that there's a, you know, we're not addressing all of the money that we could be addressing if we were broader. Like, how do you kind of go about advising them in that situation? Like, what would you say to them there?

I mean, I think it's having that beachhead. It's making that sort of first entry into a market. You've got to sell something. And if you targeted Accenture and Deloitte with your keyboard cleaning and you didn't go after the, you know, the backroom staff at Qantas or whatever it might be, you have to prove that the business is viable. It has to make economic sense. And I think a key part of that is that niching down. It's getting to that point where you've got it. And I mean, we used to have primary, secondary, tertiary kind of buyers and potential customers for us. And the primary ones we thought were great. That was awesome. But there were a bunch of other secondary ones. And if we had time or if someone knew someone, if there's some connection, we'd look at the secondary ones. So it's not about sort of ignoring them. It's about your focus.

Yeah.

There's only so much time in the day. Yeah. You have a team of, you know, hundreds of people going out there and doing sales. You have to just focus on what's in front of you. And I think prioritizing, particularly as a founder, you're wearing different hats all the time. You're the chief marketing officer, you're the CFO, you're the CEO, you're hiring staff, you're doing all these different things and having that focus and creating the— or getting an understanding of who's your primary target.

Yeah. So niche down. Avoid spray and pray. Those are a couple of the key things that we want to—

Saves us lots of time.

So I'm going to explain how we think about funnels. I think for a lot of people that could be an incredibly boring conversation. For other people, it will be super exciting because they love data and numbers. For me, it's definitely in the latter camp. So there's many, many different types of funnels. At Deque, we use a pretty simple funnel, which is awareness, consideration, and action, ACA. If you think about a funnel, okay, there's 2 different ways that you can think about it. You can think about it going vertically down, okay? So the top of the funnel is the awareness part. The middle of the funnel is the consideration part, and the bottom of the funnel is the action part. So like, what, what does that actually mean? Okay, the top of the funnel is about people first becoming aware of your product. Okay, this is where you have to generate something that gets some interest. So there's 2 parts to that. First of all, you need to know where these people are. Then you need to know what to put in front of them to get their interest. And the goal at that point when they see something— and I'll give a practical example of this in a sec— the goal at that point is to get them to the next stage of the funnel. Okay, so the key point is once someone becomes aware of something, you actually, you need them to do something. They need to take an action. So you'll often hear people say, okay, well, what's the call to action at that stage? So genuinely, you have to get them to move to the next stage in the funnel where they can— you can give them more information. Okay, you're giving them more information so that they can learn and understand and they can actually consider whether your product is right for you, for them. Okay, so in that middle part of the funnel, it's all about how do you educate people and actually increase that interest that they've already shown. The next part, the action, is really where you're trying to convert someone. Okay, and, and that conversion is getting them to actually take that first step to normally pay for your product. Okay, so how do you actually get that transaction across the line? So if you think about those 3 stages of that funnel, you need to understand what you're going to do at each stage of those funnel. You need to understand the action that you're trying to get someone to take, and therefore you need to think about the message that you need to deliver. So I'm going to use an example that I'm very familiar with just to, to kind of explain this to everyone. So As you know, we have an events business which I set up back in 2013. So we do lots of different types of events. And I'll use the example of one of our events, the Music Run. So the Music Run, in terms of the ICP, understanding who that initial customer profile is, we appeal to 18 to 24-year-olds. They're interested in health and fitness, but they're also interested in entertainment and experiences. Okay. So they're not your Your endurance athlete. These are people who are interested in the lifestyle entertainment side. So the first question that we're going to ask ourselves is, okay, where do we find these people? And typically the best place for us to reach them is in the digital platforms where they're already consuming a lot of content. So think Instagram, TikTok as 2 primary channels. Facebook is less cool for that 18 to 24-year-old these days. You and I are still there, Ol. So when we're creating a piece of content, We're trying to make sure that that piece of content generates initial interest and gets on their radar. And then once it's in front of them, we have a very short period of time to get their attention and to get them to take that next action. So the action that we want to get them to take is to click on the piece of content. So it could be a video that we're putting in front of them and to get them to then come through to our website. Okay, our website is in our owned environment rather than a third-party environment, and in that environment we can control the information that we give them. So you can design that landing page that they land on where you're giving them more information to explain about the Music Run experience. What is it? What's the date? What's the venue? How much does it cost? What do they get? So they're now actually able to have the information in front of them. for them to consider whether they should actually take an action. That action has to be that CTA. So it's register now as the one that we normally use or sign up. And it's very much telling them to do something. You have a prominent button that will feature at different stages on the website and you're trying to get them to come into that purchase funnel. So they click on register now and then we're at that final stage of that purchase. So this is the action bit where they then have to complete the registration We want to make that as simple as possible to get them through paying. And then we've acquired that customer, we've acquired that revenue. Our funnel has done its job.

Just sort of taking that analogy and applying it to kind of any business. That's really how it works. It's in the early stages, it's my warm network. The top of the funnel is the people I know, the people in my industry, the people who I know have this problem that my business is all about. That's my funnel. And if 10% of them are interested and I have those conversations, then how do I broaden the top of my funnel to kind of recognize that it's everybody with a similar job description or in a similar industry or whatever it is. And so it's sort of a planning process to get to understand how you work your funnel to get as many conversions down the bottom such that you can put on a successful music event or sell enough of your product to kind of make commercial viability.

Maybe to give a B2B example, and just us think through it together. We get quite a lot of founders who are coming through deep technical expertise, and that lends itself quite well to that initial consulting service. And then what we're typically working with them is how do we productize that service so that we can deliver it better? So, I mean, let's just use an example of a business that is looking at providing a technical consulting product. to, let's say, engineering businesses. Okay. So, you know, that's the B2B sales. So initially that person is coming to us, their early customers or their initial customers are the people within their warm network, as you say, Olle. So they've probably built up a network of people who they know in engineering firms, and they're gonna reach out to them and they'll win some of those customers there. So let's say they win 5 customers. that they're probably going to be quite different types of engineering firms that they're working with at that early stage. And what we're trying to work out is which one of those engineering firms is best suited, gets the most value, like it's the right fit for the firm that we're working with. Maybe you've got one engineering firm that's in construction, one engineering firm that's in electrical services, you know, one engineering firm that's kind of airplane manufacturing. Okay, so If we look at that and we go, well, look, the ones who are in construction, typically those firms tend to be between 50 to 100 people, whereas the electrical engineering guys, they tend to be firms of, you know, 10 to 15 people. So they're much smaller. If we look at the construction guys, the revenue, the size of the business, they would actually, let's say they're at $50 million revenue businesses, okay? Whereas the other engineering firms, they're at $5 million revenue, okay? So they're much smaller in size. Then let's look at the construction firms. Are they used to paying for the types of product that we have? Let's say, yeah, they already have a relationship with a similar product, but it's not delivering the same value in the way that we are. So it would seem that the construction guys, if there's enough of them out there, so we go and look at that market size, how big is that market? Well, actually, the construction firms represent 50% of the They're engineering firms in this market. So a lot of things line up for us to say, okay, that the ideal customer profile actually is probably a construction engineering firm between 50 and 100 people with a revenue of between $10 million and $100 million who are used to paying for consulting services. Okay, we've got our ICP. So let's think about that funnel and let's think about how we would go about testing that. Like, how do we understand where they're showing up? Is that at trade shows? Are they doing a lot of stuff on LinkedIn, for example? So we're going to try and understand that, and once we understand that, we'll focus on that. So let's say it's LinkedIn. So what do we do to try and make ourselves more visible on LinkedIn? So advertising on, on LinkedIn, is that something that can work? So you're going to test that, and let's say it works. Let's say that generates leads for us. Let's say that lead is booking a consultation with us. So we design a simple funnel where we put out a LinkedIn ad, they click on the ad, they come through for our website, they book a free consultation. Okay. In that free consultation, we're able to give them some feedback on what they're doing that gets them interested. And then we have an initial product that we put in front of them that gets us over the line and start working with them. So that's a good example of like how we're going to build that funnel with someone. We're going to test, we're going to learn, we're going to understand it. But critically, what we're going to do at Deque Is we're gonna run the LinkedIn ads for you. We're gonna help you execute it, but you're still delivering that initial service. In the meantime, once we've done that service a few times, we're working on how do we build that into a product so you're not having to deliver it each time. Actually, we can start making some of that productized. So I think that's a good example of the whole cycle working. You know, how do we go to market? How do we actually help the founder? How do we kind of help them build that business in a repeatable way?

I think one of the key things to sort of recognizing that is that as the founder of the business, no one will know your business or your product as well as you. You're the only one who can explain to that person how this works and why it's going to work.

Yeah.

I'm not a salesperson. I don't ever see myself as a salesperson. But when I'm sitting there talking about, you know, whether it's Tigerspike and the mobile services we provide, or Deque and why I think it's the best way to start a business, it becomes a natural part of how you deliver news. You so fundamentally believe in your product and your business that it comes across naturally as the right kind of solution. And if that resonates with the person in front of you and the person sitting across from you, automatically they will want to sign up. They will recognize the benefits. So, you as the founder are so intimately involved in that sort of sales process. You are the person who gets it over the line. And that's not only really powerful, but it's one of the most fun parts of being a founder. It's absolutely fantastic to see something that you created and you dreamt up become a product that somebody else uses.

Yeah. And I think at that early stage, no one believes in your product more than you do. Okay? So it's so important that you are that person who's communicating that message. And I understand the sales bit because I think a lot of people get put off with feeling like a salesperson. A lot of people don't want to identify with that and they don't think that that's who they want to be. But I think what you're saying there, Ol, which I fully agree with, is it's about you explaining your product. You're going to do it better than anyone else. And I think they've got to buy you at that early stage. Yes, it's uncomfortable, but hey, when you're on your founder journey, there's plenty of uncomfortable moments that you're going to have to go through. So that getting comfortable with uncomfortable, Just roll your sleeves up and get going. I think one of the things that people get stuck on often is what are things that they can just start doing straight away. And the key thing that we always ask people is, okay, understand your network. Who can you go and talk to? That's the first thing. The second thing is you're going to have our networks, so we will use our networks to support that initial outreach. So the next one, which is an often overlooked thing, is that if you start doing great work for your first customers, those early customers, asking them to refer you to other people is the next obvious one to focus on. And, you know, that they are your most powerful ally in a sales process because you've just delivered value for them. So if you deliver value for them, asking them to say, look, if If I did right by you and you enjoyed it, can you please introduce me to one other person or 3 other people? That's such an easy thing to do at the start that I think people often are afraid to do, but you need to leverage that.

And I think often it happens without asking for it. The example for us was who built that app? And the agency had to say we did. And they're like, but you don't have any mobile capabilities. And our name just grew because we did good work and people found out So, I think, you know, they talk a lot about, in the initial stages, doing things which don't necessarily scale. So, going above and beyond for your customer, delivering something, you know, really fantastic. The economics might not stack up in the long term because you couldn't afford to do that for everybody, but the advocacy that you create and that kind of goodwill and that, oh my gosh, you've got to work with these guys, they've saved us hundreds of thousands of dollars, or we now do this 10 times quicker, or whatever it is that you're particular solution is focused on.

It's that like, know, trust piece that you're working on. And in B2B business, that's incredibly important. One of the things that people often get a bit lost with is metrics. I think people know that it's important that you need to measure things. You know, there's that age-old saying, you can't manage what you can't measure. But often there's too many metrics and we don't know what they mean. So we tend to try and identify what the one really important metric is that drives your business. You'll often hear that talked about, a North Star metric. That North Star metric is guiding the direction that you're going in, and that becomes very important. So an example of a North Star metric could be customer lifetime value. Like, that is the North Star metric for our business. We need to focus on how we drive that. So lifetime value is made up of how much revenue you earn from a customer each year, and then the length of time that you have with that customer. So the longer you can retain them, the more revenue you can grow each year, the higher the lifetime value is.

And I think one of the key things is that that metric itself is derived from a bunch of things, right? What's the average length of time a customer stays with me? Do they spend more in year 2 than they do in year 1? The example that I always remember really early on in my entrepreneurial career, somebody said that the CEO of Qantas gets sent an email with 3 numbers each day. So, on a 24-hour cycle. And in the morning, he wakes up and one of the emails he gets says what the seat occupancy was, what the revenue was, and what the percentage of on-time landings. And those 3 things help him understand what's going on across all of Qantas. So if occupancy's down, then maybe they've got their pricing wrong and he'll speak to sales and say, what are we doing about this? If on-time's kind of dropping, maybe there's a problem with engineering or what's happening. So if the CEO of Qantas can kind of understand and manage his business with 3 key metrics, then you as a startup founder don't need to know 57,000 different data points about your company. And it's all about trying to really boil it down to what are the key things I need to know on a weekly basis?

Yeah.

Number of sales calls? Is it number of interactions on my website? Whatever it is. And it varies from business to business. But as you're trying to grow a business, the more you can focus on the right metrics and understand the right sort of kind of performance indicators around your company, the more you can start to sort of pull levers that influence those in the right direction and also identify when things start to go wrong.

Yeah. And I'll give you a practical example of that, which comes back to that. funnel explanation I gave earlier about the music run. When you're running a ticket sales campaign, so how do you know whether that's working or not? Okay, how do you know you're going to reach enough people in order to drive those ticket sales? Well, the key thing that we focus on is we focus on a conversion rate from the number of people who land on the website. So that could be visitors or sessions, depending on how you want to measure that, to the number of people who then go on and buy a ticket. So we know that you're not going to get a better conversion rate than 5%. So that really helps you kind of know, are we driving enough people to the website from our marketing efforts? If we are and that conversion rate is good, okay, then we should be confident of hitting that number. If the conversion rate is bad, is there something happening with our messaging? Is there something happening with our targeting of our audience? Is there something happening with a the actual user journey registration process that is off, that's stopping people from converting. So by understanding a couple of key metrics there, you can really see how the whole funnel is performing and you can start taking some of those actions to affect that key result that you're driving towards. So that's it for today on Founder Unlocked. We've talked about how to move from those first few customers to building a repeatable Scalable engine for growth.

And also what to measure, what those metrics are. And remember that hustle will get you your first 10 customers, but it's systems that'll get you your next 100. The key is turning those one-off wins, those initial customers, into consistent revenue.

And, and once you've proven that consistency, that's when we get a lot of founders who start asking, you know, should I start to raise money? to scale faster.

And that's exactly what we're going to be talking about next time. We're going to talk about when to raise, who to raise from, and how to make sure that funding creates a step change, not just another LinkedIn post.

So if you're a founder wondering whether you need investors to get to the next stage, check it out on our YouTube channel or wherever you listen to your podcasts.