Exit The Matrix with Me Experiment: Guest: Leading with Coherence: 7 Pillars to a Heartful Abundance

Welcome to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success with your host Jane Slack-Smith, where we celebrate the incredible journeys of individuals who've transcended their limitations and achieved extraordinary success.

Hello, it's Jane again, and boy, can you believe it is week 23 of Exit the Matrix, this crazy book writing researching experiment that I'm on? And I have to I have to say, I know I do this every single week, and I'm like, you're not going to believe who I get to talk to this week and who said yes. But I've got the incredible Arnaud Saint-Paul. Hi Arnaud, how are you?

Hello, very nice to be here, Jane Slack-Smith.

I know I kind of connected last year, and I have to say, at the time when, um, we did connect, and, you know, I'd been thinking about how do people live in abundance and how do they live from their heart and, and how do you make an impact impact in the world. And then I had this beautiful call with Arno, and he was like, that's just what I do— heart first, impact always. And I was just like, oh my God, this is so perfect. So at this stage in, you know, researching the book, where, you know, there's— we've kind of been through this stage of people being kind of aware that things aren't right, or they maybe have got to a level of success and they're sitting there going, is this it? Like, you know, I've got another 30 years of this, got the money, got the house, got the wife, the husband, the kids, the car, the boat, whatever, but where am I going now? And then there's this kind of messy middle where they try to find that out. And then there's these tools that help them awaken. That's what Arno does. So for the last 20 years, he's been working with leaders from around the world and he's had, you know, many very successful companies himself. But it's all about leading from the heart. And I guess, you know, you've navigated this and you've come to the other side and you've seen the struggles that people with the potential for big impact have had, Arno. So I wanna go all the way back. How did this come to you? Like, how did you go, this is where I'm gonna spend the next 20 years creating Leaders With Heart to make the biggest impact in the world?

Actually, the next 50 years. As far as I'm concerned. Anyway, the— I guess, you know, from the way I see it now is I was born for that. And when I was 13, I kind of woke up. And beyond the who am I kind of thing that every teenager goes through, for me, it became really quickly important to figure out how it is to live my life from my heart. Because I was finding my, my mind being very unreliable, and I needed to find some ground that I could count on. In this case, my heart with a big H, right? A capital H. And that's— language can be treasonous sometimes. Here, heart means my essence. Yeah, my beingness.

How does a 13-year-old go, my mind is unreliable? I need to find something else. There's the heart. Was there that kind of conversation going on at home, or did you read a book, or did you just wake up and go, not good?

So I guess throughout the ages of this life, I've been really led through coherence, and it didn't make sense that that mind did not make sense on its own. That something else needed to be there. And so there was that ongoing intuition, I guess, that would lead me to something else. And that something else became the heart. Obviously, today I'm saying it, you know, in a very linear, super simple process. Now, at that time, it took months and years to figure out this or that. And but gradually, I would really, you know, all of a sudden something became coherent. It made sense. It was a knowing. I knew that. And I would discover a few years afterwards in books, in the Bhagavad Gita, or Conversation with God, or etc., the actual confirmation that was it, right, that it was actually real. So it's really, I guess, at 13, it was more about the opening of the truth within that supersedes what was being offered outside. Outside between quotes, obviously.

So this is interesting, right? Because at that younger age where your peer group and your friends are so important and you were kind of saying you were looking at something much bigger, I imagine that's similar to when you're working with leaders and they're sitting there going, you know, there must be something more than this. It's the same type of process.

I guess so, indeed. And it's true, you're helping me reflecting on, you know, when I work with someone or with a group, I will tend always to see the, you know, the higher octave of where the person is, right? I would, I would perceive the bigger picture, as we call it, or where, you know, beyond where the conditioning or the inner limitations that we're putting on ourselves are keeping the person in or the group in, and helping them go through the process of releasing whatever is stopping them on their journey. So I guess I learned that very, very early on, and realizing also I think, a very, very important truth, which is that our day-to-day life is guiding us towards ourselves. And that has been— so it's probably the ultimate guru in a certain way, where— and that's what we offer today, is the method that enables us to listen to everyday events and understanding ourselves through that lens to bring about more coherence. And therefore, more impact. Because imagine when you are not anymore living as the victim of everything that is unfolding, but more as a constant, I would say, dancer with, with life, right? And creating that ebb and flow of that breath, it becomes, it really becomes magical. And we can still express ourselves through business, through art, through, through life as a whole, uh, in so many facets, as many as we, as we want and can. It just, just becomes better. It just becomes easier and more peaceful and more presence and more joy, etc., etc.

So do you find those people though that you're taking through this exercise, do you, do they get to a point where there is a shedding or a grief or a letting go of established, even relationships, but constructs or, you know, where they thought they were taking their business or company or, you know, their planned path?

I wouldn't say there is a grief in that sense. There is indeed a process through which— so it's more of a process of getting into more and more coherence. When you get into more coherence, things are falling out indeed, but they do not matter anymore. Right? So there's no attachment to it anymore. It's just a natural process, like life in general. So from that viewpoint, it actually is a much easier process and path, because it's not about exerting one's pain, or, you know, deep emotions about this and this and that, and and having to go through them in order to release them, etc. No, it's more about finding one's coherence.

So let's define coherence. So you talked about this coherence where the mind wasn't enough and you looked for something else and you say that's the heart and the coherence of the other. Can you just explain a bit more what coherence is? Is it always the heart or what is that?

So let's step a little bit back first. Coherence. Imagine you are at a classical orchestra before the director comes in. You have all the instruments that are being tuned and it's a beautiful cacophony, right? And then the director comes in and starts to emerge a beautiful symphony. That's coherence. That symphony is coherence. Before we had cacophony, it goes into coherence. So what does that mean? It applies, apply to us, right, to each individual, to each organization, to each team, to each company. It, what it means is that we are by default first chaos. We have so many aspects of ourselves that are trapped here and there. And creating that impression, that expression of cacophony that I was mentioning earlier. Now, we can, if we choose to, starting to become the director of our own symphony. In other words, we start to take helm instead of going to always on autopilot and continue to play like a pinball, the different traumas, dramas that are still within ourselves, these each instrument, right? Then we start to take the helm, as I mentioned, and start to make conscious choices, right? So in other words, instead of being the victim of our mind, we start to allow our mind to be a tool and lead through our heart, through our core essence, that core tune that is the very reason why I'm here now on this planet, and lead with that, with purpose, with joy, with ease and peace and presence and so on and so forth.

So it sounds like it's— purpose is really the end result, isn't it? It's that inner knowing of this is what I'm here for.

Yes, and we'll get to that in a second. As I do so, starts to emerge the symphony. Yeah, the beautiful harmonious music of ourselves, so to speak, that is definitely going in a certain direction, that, that it's a unification, a cohesive, cohesive system that doesn't have anymore that many dissonant notes.

Yeah.

And is everything going towards— so even within the interlacing of all the different melodies of what is life as it is, of all the patterns that are part of this life, they all get into the actual manifestation of who you really are and not who you believe to be. In other words, it is there, that symphony is there to explore the abundance of oneself and not the scarcity of the autopilot that we were in. So indeed, as you were mentioning, purpose is one, one of the 7 pillars of Heart Leadership. We have presence, inner peace, inner joy, non-attachment, selflessness, unity, and purpose. And purpose is the tip of the arrow. It's where we're heading. It is the very reason why I am born here and why I'm doing what I'm doing today, helping 1 billion people to open their heart to themselves. That's my journey. I— it took me a while to find it, to identify, to put a label on it. But I was always on that journey. It became a conscious journey only a few, a decade ago. And I'm not expecting to vary from that journey for the rest of my life because it's so fun to do it.

Why not? I mean, when you talk about the Heartful Method, so you were saying there's 7 pillars of the Heartful Method. Is that when you're talking about, I mean, it's kind of if there was a tick box there and you're looking at them and going, inner joy, inner peace, like, yes, I want that. Yes, I want that. Like, can you exist with 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 pillars? Or like, when you look at the lot, like, it's an abundance, it's a smorgasbord of like, you know, living life to the fullest. I'm just wondering, do you find many people who have them all? Or you really have to be mindful and willful and trained to pick keeping vigilant to what you need to do to keep all of those things running?

I would, I mean, it is, it is our natural state. However, we tend to find that only a small percentage of the population is already open to all of them, right? So more often than not, we will see 2 or 3 pillars that are so down that they bring down the others. And we will see there that there is still a lot of work to do out of. So we have an assessment on our website where people can go and I have a link to that.

I'm going to drop it below.

We can measure coherence, which is quite bloody amazing. And we can do that for corporations.

And it's the 7 pillars you're measuring coherence. So you've got a coherence impact index, basically.

Yes. Exactly.

And you do that not just for individuals, it's for organizations too.

Organizations. And that's really exciting because we can measure coherence within teams across investments for funds or funds and funds and our family offices. And so all of a sudden, we can look at our organization or organizations from the lens of coherence. And the more I invest into coherence, the more impact I get. It's mathematic. So it's wonderful because all of a sudden we can tie it to the financial reporting and all that stuff. It's very, very interesting how it works.

So can I just stop you right there? So what you're telling me is that there is an economy of this Heartful method that we can actually look at organizations that have put this into place and they're seeing bottom line impacts based on coming from their heart, living in purpose, and putting all of these philosophies across their companies.

Yes.

Wow. Okay, so we're talking about a hard economy here. So are we talking like big companies, big multinational companies, or Who can do this? Okay, so how do you get into a company and convince the CEO that a new KPI is a coherence impact measure?

I would, I mean, at the stage at which we are, I would say send them to the assessment, and if they resonate with it, then we can have a conversation. For the moment, we are more, we're working with companies above $5 million revenue. But up to 200 people where we're not equipped yet to tackle bigger companies. We'll get there very, very soon. I guess next year we'll be able to really start to making a dent and scale faster. It's a long journey to codify the, that process of transformation. That is enabled through coherence, right? At this stage, we have a community of leaders who go through the Heartful Method and go through that transformation. What I was going to share earlier, we were talking about measuring coherence. We see that 2, 3, 4% are really ready for the core method. And we have— we had to create tools that enables people to get to their, that place so that they can really make the jumps. And it's, it works. It's just a process. And it's not only a process, it's a practice. It's not about learning, it's about practicing. And not everybody is ready to practice, which is okay. We're there for them too. So that practice is about embodying more and more presence, inner peace, inner joy, etc., right? The 7 pillars. And that codification that we put in place applies to both companies and individuals. We even have for companies the same process, and we can identify 7 stages of companies, from a very competitive kind of company to a creator kind of defining, sector-defining kind of company. And so it's fascinating how the coherence of the framework, it makes complete sense at all levels and therefore is a beautiful guiding, uh, post towards a better embodiment of that company. Now, we were talking about abundance.

Yes, yes, define abundance.

It happens That it happens that yesterday I worked with my group on selflessness, which seems a very obscure pillar in, in our 7-pillar set. However, what was very interesting is selflessness is about letting go of the ego mind, right? It's letting go of the structure that helps me identify to myself. In other words, releasing all the tensions that I abide by. And whether it is about the, I need to do this to, to please this person or that person, or to care because I care, or whatever the reasons, doesn't really matter. And I was helping to realize our community helping them to see how we tend to choose to be in tension, in space tension, and where we want to have this happen, or I am, I am the mother, so I need to take care of this, etc. Many, many, many good reasons, right? And, and there were some examples were showing up like, oh, but when I was with two dogs at another person's home, and I was so relaxed, for a person that is always do, do, do, do, do, and so relaxed, and I was able to breathe and feel peace and joy and so on and so forth. And the question is, okay, why is it that we need two dogs and a different space for us to be able to realize that beautiful space within? So in other words, most of the time, and I invite everyone to notice that maybe in their day-to-day, today, yesterday, whenever, we tend to be always on the edge of ourselves. In other words, to be in, in that little thread of scarcity instead of realizing this beautiful moment. What does that mean? It means that every single moment that we have in our day-to-day life, is an opportunity to be present to it. In other words, to pause and be here now for it, and from that space within, uh, to be present to that space and to be inspired from that beautiful energy. It's not a thought, it's a feeling. Be inspired by that energy to create from there. And you can feel how much more space it offers. It's infinite possibilities just there from which I can really be the best I can be and not who I believed to be.

What strikes me with that And, and if I'm, if I've got this right, if I can just summarize it back to you, is that the essence of selflessness is being present in the now, which lends me to think that the self is defined by our past. When we're living from the past of I'm not worthy because we've had experiences that have proven that we haven't got what we wanted or whatever, or I'm living in the future, I'm not enough, and I need to quickly get to the end because I need to know the end result because I have to get there. So the self exists in the past and the present, and it's selfless is only in the presence now when those— the ego dissolves and allows us to go. There is no referential experiences of past and present that allow us to observe ourselves, and therefore I just am.

Yes, very much so.

And makes sense.

And it's— and also the identification to the roles and concepts I believe to be true now, right? So I would put them on top here. And so releasing all that, allowing myself to be without definition, and therefore fully transparent to what life can inspire me to be in this moment, whether it is to paint when I never painted, or call a friend because when— and I didn't think about them for 10 years, whatever that is, or signing a contract. I don't know, it doesn't really matter, right? And that moment of creation is possible because I was present. Another example that was offered by someone from the community is, well, I'm a mother, I'm being called by, so my kids are coming to wake me up in the bed, and so I don't have time for myself, etc. Well, the opportunity there is to take it as a blessing and from there create something new, maybe, instead of feeling being the victim of it, etc., etc., as we kind of do sometimes, at least.

I agree with that. I've had this experience in the last couple of months. I've been following David Guénem and listening to the Kabbalah and learning a bit about the infinite self and the framework of the Kabbalah and how it's kind of informed most religions. And he has this concept that has been of such a challenge for me personally, and that is in the times of you know, the kids doing what you don't want them to do, or things going against you, what your plans were, and, and conflict and tension coming up, is pause. What a gift. And it's even that experience of, um, it's not happening to me, it is happening for me, in the sense of how can I make this a gift. And I was heading off to see my parents on Monday, and they'd had a bit of a crisis. And so I jumped on this great big freeway, and I'm on top of this bridge, and there's a 45-minute you know, car park basically stuck. And I was sitting there getting really angry and I thought, pause, what a gift, pause, what a gift, pause, what a gift. I was really getting into it and I was like, where's the gift here? And I thought, oh gosh, there was a, there was a call that I really wanted to be on at 11 o'clock and now I can be on it. And so I got this gift. And, and to your point, I think when we're, you know, I was concentrating on where I had to be and the situation that had got me to this stage. And it wasn't until I paused and just went, I'm here in the moment. What a gift. And I didn't have to work anything out. I lost all of the tension and all the worries. And I was just like, it is what it is. I can't do anything about this. How am I going to make it into something that is worthwhile and a gift for me? And it was fantastic.

Yes, indeed. And you see how that moment, instead of becoming a negative outcome, you know, for an hour stuck in the car, into something that helps you to produce something new or enriched you in one way or another. Imagine that these two situations apply to business. All of a sudden, when we are led by coherence, you know, pause, what a gift, etc., everything starts to unfold in a perfect way, in the most harmonious way possible, which therefore always brings more financial, social, environmental impact. So that's why it is so applicable to the day-to-day of life and the business. And it's a mathematical truth that the more I lead with the coherence of my heart, the more impact, the more growth I experience.

Hello, just a quick message. I hope you're enjoying this podcast bonus session. Now, if you have heard this interview, then you're probably sitting in there going, what is this all about? Well, this is all about my Exit the Matrix experiment. Now, I decided to write a book because I'm really interested in how do we go from the existence that we have now to exiting the matrix and living with intention from our hearts, following our heart's desires, but also creating abundance in all areas of our lives. And hence, whilst I've been researching this book, I thought, this is a really solitary journey. I want people to come on this journey with me. And hence I've got this very special group. Now come and join me. The first month for founders is free. And if you decide Sé fantastic. So what I'm doing is I'm interviewing incredible people. I'm getting insights about what's this awakening that people are getting, you know, what is the exit the matrix kind of sliding door moment for them. Now, I've obviously run this podcast for over a year now, and I have more than 30 stories, but I'm also interested in those people who are in this transformational space who are actually not just awakening themselves, and they're awakening others. What is the mechanism? As Bashar talks about it, it's the permission slip. Are they going through astrology or meditation or yoga or breathwork? Are they just going within and getting a sense of what's really going on? So that's what all the Exit the Matrix experience is about. I'm going to let you get back to the interview, but if you want to join me, go to exitthematrix.today/ ETM with me, which stands for Exit the Matrix with me. So that's exitthematrix.today/etmwithme. Sign up. I'd love for you to come along. I'm creating courses. There's currently courses in there around 4D gratitude. There's more courses to come. I'm creating custom GPTs on how you can exit the matrix and helping you uncover what lies beneath your subconscious and holding you back. And also other custom GPTs that I'm sure you're going to love. And most of the speakers are actually really motivating me. So I'm creating courses, I'm creating ebooks, I'm creating experiments you can try, I'm creating tools that you can use, and I'm also writing a book. So at some stage I'll get to writing the book. At this moment, it's just all about the research, and I hope you choose to join me because I'm really excited about this experiment. So I'll get back to the interview now. Enjoy yourself. And, uh, as always, here's to your success for myself and the permission you give to others to do the same.

And therefore that's exactly, exactly beautiful.

It's, um, it's interesting. I've spoken to quite a few people recently and, you know, there's this concept of the vision board and New Year's resolutions and the goals and, you know, the path forward and the next steps and what we need to do to get to what we wanna do. And I've been challenged by speaking to a few people and listening to a few people who've essentially gone, if this is the container of my past experiences and everything that I know, and I don't know what I don't know, for me to be creating a vision of what I want into the future from this place, I'm actually creating on top of just the limited foundations. But if I have a vision of the big what I want to create, the impact I want to make, without the steps that have to be formulated in my mind. And I'm open to the experiences, opportunities, synchronicities, anything, coincidences, insights, whatever, downloads, transmissions, whatever people call them, that allow them to, to be in the present and be available to receive that information. Then something happens in a way that they could never have predicted and expected. Is that something that you prescribe to, that type of philosophy?

I believe so. With my words, I mean, what you just said seems a bit complicated. Let's make it simpler.

Please.

In this present moment, when you are fully present to this moment, everything is possible. Yeah, you may feel inspired in that moment to create a beautiful representation of what feels right to you in that moment. And therefore, you be— you get into the joy with the peace in your heart, you get into the joy of creation, of building up an amazing board that does this and this and that. Period. The board has been created. It is forgotten. It is placed maybe somewhere, but it is not anymore of importance because you are now in the next moment when a new creation happens, which may or may not be guided by that famous board we're talking about. Yeah, it doesn't matter. What matters is that moment of creation, is that joy of you finding you, of you experiencing another facet of you. Maybe it's singing, maybe it's, uh, again, signing another contract. Doesn't matter. Yeah, what matters is you exploring the abundance of you in so many ways. That at the end of the day say, I've done all that. And if that matters even at the end of the day. But in any case, that fuels all the gratitude you can have, all the joy you can experience, all the peace that you are, all the presence, and that sense of pure unity with the world that is your reflection anyway.

So that conversation you had about selflessness then, how do you link that to abundance and living abundantly?

Well, as I was mentioning earlier, selflessness. So the self as ego mind is a collection of tension, as we were mentioning. So Initially, we tend to be always in tension. In other words, imagine that thread on which people start to walk. I don't know what's the—

Tightrope.

Yeah, a tightrope. So we're always on that tightrope. Now imagine life without the tightrope. In other words, it's a big avenue and everything is easy and comes your way. Why? Because of coherence and cohesion and resonance. Abundance.

Right.

So that's abundance, right? I would say.

Yeah.

Living on a tightrope is not abundance. I mean, it's a beautiful abundance. I met with someone that has lived all her life from the very, very young age in debt. All her life, and she's now in her 40s. That's beautiful abundance. Because even with that difficult.

Abundance of debt. She's creating.

Yes, abundance of debt on one side, but also she has lived her life and she has a kid and so on and so forth. And still with that, with that debt on top. Right? So it is abundance. But anyway, always living on the edge, on that tightrope, is definitely a place of scarcity. So becoming more and more present to what is and releasing the tensions that I was mentioning before, allows you to really start to be present to the very beginning of abundance, which is my relationship to this present moment, let alone talk about money or relationships or health or whatever.

Makes it sound so simple. So tell me this, what is the simple paths that one could take to start living in the present? Do you have practices? You're linked to the HeartMath Institute, I think.

We are partnered with them, yes. So I would say I'm very prone to using the inner technology more than the outer one. And we have a very essential tool It's a finger. Do you have a finger at your disposal?

I have a finger.

You do have a finger. You have 10. Yes. I mean, not absolutely everyone has fingers, but nevertheless, most likely everyone. Right. And with that finger, I have the opportunity at each and every moment to use it to press the pause button here. Here. And that pause button enables me to, okay, I'm here now. And from that place, we go back to what we were saying earlier, which is, okay, let's be here now. Open that space within, like Arnaud said in that beautiful, amazing conversation with Jane Slack-Smith. Seems a bit silly, but I'm gonna try anyway. And, uh, and allow yourself to be here without judgment, without feeling that one is judged, and open up the space within to maybe starting to be nudged in one direction. To try something new, to create something out of it, or just for the very sake of being here now. That's also more than enough because, you know, we tend to move all around all the time, etc. So the— this tool of pause is very powerful when we choose to because it enables us to listen number one, and to open to what comes up instead of being in a frenetic do, do, do, or this is needed from me and that is needed from me, and I have these responsibilities and boom, boom, boom, it never stops.

I guess what I'm learning along this journey is that, you know, I kind of, I look to you at 13 having had this experience. And one of my coaches I'm working with, Matteo, he had an experience very similar to that at 6. And, you know, you kind of speak to these people who say that as life goes on, you're putting these onion skins on and on and on that you then bring back so that you can get to your true essence. And I'm like, gosh, I wish I worked this out at 6 rather than 50 so I didn't have so many onion skins. Like, lucky Arno. He got it at 13. But I'm kind of, I'm listening to this and it's interesting because it makes me think about how easy the tools are. It's, you know, something as simple as stop, take a moment, breathing, you know, just having the, like everyone has access to this. You don't have to have money. You don't have to do the next course and go on the $10,000 retreat and sign up for, you know, something that's going to put you in debt. These are very simple tools that anyone can practice at any time. It's just almost letting go of the kind of societal or commercialness of, you know, we have to have all of these things to be looking like we have enough, but also we have to buy all these things and have all this training because one day I'll get to the point that will teach me everything and then I'll have this, oh, moment. But, you know, the 7 pillars that you talk to, like an inner joy is— I mean, I've got a philosophy at the moment. I go for walks and it's not often, but I, I, it's not uncommon for me to see a wiggly leaf. And I, I just look for these little moments of, you know, oh, isn't that something just completely joyful and different and unusual? And the wind was not blowing and all the leaves on the trees are silent. And there's one little leaf going, and it doesn't need the wind to move, and it's having this incredible little experience. And I'm like, oh, how much joy! And it's not about to fall off. And I actually, I captured it on a video of a leaf and put it on Facebook where somebody— I finally got it. And, uh, and I was saying to my husband, I think I'm the only one who sees this. He says, no, I see wiggly leaves. And I was like, wow, you know, there's so many little things that we might, uh, take for our own little treasures, where in actual fact there's others out there who are also seeing something that's unusual, beautiful, awe and wonder, joy, peace, whatever it's leading you to. And it all just comes down to these simple little things. So being selfless, being in the moment, creating a point for abundance to come in. Do you think that, I mean, I'm interested in your thoughts on that because if we dumb it down, it really is, there's tools available to all of us that we can put in place right now. To being coherent.

Yeah, I mean, of course, you know, we're only talking about our very core, our very essence of what a human being is. That has been my quest for the past 40 years, to figure out what tools— not just for the sake of the tool itself, but more— first, first it was more about trying to find coherence in that human experience, right? And out of that, Chris started a framework that we now call the Heartful Method that has driven all that we have been developing at the Heart Leadership Institute, Tapwatt. And it is about what it means to be human, a human being, and offering up to society, to leaders, the opportunity for them to take that journey if they choose to. And it— that's why it's not about learning, it's about practice, it's about reframing, rewiring our relationship to reality, to ourselves. And from that space, then what is the first step and what is the second step, what is the third step? Simple ones. But we tend, because we are so enamored by this beautiful mind of ours, to make it super complex. Well, the answer is not there. And we all know that, you know, in your audience, it has never been there. But we were seeking there the answer, right? The same way that we're looking for this or that in our outer world to feel happiness or to be this or that or that. Well, it starts within. There's no doubt about that. It always starts within. And within, it is simple. It is presence. It is peace. It is joy. It is unity. It is purpose. Simple stuff. It is notes, 7 notes, right? But then as you duplicate these notes across octaves, it becomes an amazing and beautiful symphony that even Mozart will have difficulty to write.

Yeah.

Your life, my life is a symphony on its own that has so many octaves of expression. And but it only starts with 7 notes.

Yeah.

Or 7 pillars in our case. And so what do we want to do with our 7 notes? What is it? It's not even what do we want to do? It's more what experience I want to have with my 7 notes. What melody do I want to write? And I start this melody and that melody and so on and so forth. And all of a sudden, I did indeed create a new symphony. Why? Just because. And that's more than enough. It's love in action. Every single human being is love in action. That's the very reason why we're here. That's the reason why we chose this kind of experiences. So love in action can be meaning business, impact, personal life, all of the above.

Yeah.

But it's love in action. And as you can see, there's no thinking there. It's pure feeling and action.

Beautiful. I, I, I love this, this concept of presence and, and being internally referential, not externally looking for, you know, people to, or things to validate you. And it's interesting, I was working with a coach yesterday, Matthew, and he, um, he talks about, uh, transmitting from your heart your divine spark, your, your love. And he took us through an exercise, or he took me actually through an exercise that essentially was dropping into silence and quiet and just saying, show me, and around an issue that you might have or a business decision. In this case, I was looking at a business decision. And there was this, you know, maybe it's God, maybe it's Divine Spark, maybe it's just yourself, whatever, universe, consciousness, collective. But it was getting information and it was just like, show me, just show me. And it was profound. Like the insights that, that I had were just extraordinary. And I think that often in, you know, this noisy world, we, we don't have that time. And what you're talking about, these 7 pillars, they're all internal. They have an external impact, but they're all internal. There's this, that going into the silence, going into the moment and just dropping into what that feels like. So what interests me is you've been, um, you work with individuals, I know, and you work with companies and teams and organizations and entrepreneurs and businesses, but have you seen a transformation over the last 10, 20 years of people in business or successful people. I mean, you work with home offices, you're working with some very high net worth individuals who have the opportunity of having had success financially and status to then make an impact. Have you seen that there's more people questing for this or there's more of a need, or is it kind of like there's always just been the 1%ers?

No, no, definitely there is a huge, uh, you know, since COVID there has been a huge huge jump towards understanding, looking to understand better or to enact more and more these leadership methods. Let's put it that way. It's not leadership, it's more about life as it is as a whole. But nevertheless, so someone that was— had published a book around leadership from the heart, was telling me that his book was written 10 years ago and he sold last year more than all the previous 9 years combined. So for me, it's definitely a good, a good sign. And we start seeing it definitely also in, in our case where we're seeing we're building that data stream of coherence measurements. And we are seeing an evolution as well on that front.

The—

you were mentioning something earlier that—

show me.

I think I lost it. Huh?

Show me.

The— no, it was, it was about I had something that was— oh yes, you are talking about your own process of and how this Matthew, I think if I remember correctly, helped you to assess a business decision. What is interesting is with what doesn't make sense in our lives is that we are using our brain 99% of the time. Right? However, when you compare the electromagnetic field of your brain versus your heart, do you know the proportion between one and the other?

Tell me.

It's 1 to 5,000.

What?

So in other words, you're using 99% of your time something that is less than 1% of your capacity. What Matthew helps you to do is to really shift. Instead of thinking, you start to feel the answer, which is using the big stuff, right? The cannon, or your heart in this case. And obviously, when I was talking about electromagnetic field, we're talking about the the physical representation of them, of our essential aspects of ourselves.

And to just quantify that, it can be measured, your brain activity, like an inch away from your head, but your heart can be measured 2 meters away.

Yes.

That just blows me away. It's extraordinary, isn't it? But we live mainly in our head. We allow it to dictate how we operate rather than dropping into our divine heart, love center coherence.

Exactly. So that's why it's so essential for companies, for individuals to start learning again, because it has always been our nature. We just forgot. I mean, as kids, it was not an issue, but then we forgot. It is so essential for us to go back to learning that. So, and more importantly, to practice it. Because it is really, in my experience and the people working with us now, it's starting to live fully ourselves and get the impact that one wants always.

I was thinking about this this morning, this kind of awakening since COVID that you brought up and can validate through these numbers, not just your coherence index you're seeing people fill in, but also people who are seeing, you know, book sales, etc., go up and, you know, people interested in working in this space. And it struck me that, you know, 10, 12 years prior to that, we had this financial crisis where there was this, you know, GFC, the World Financial Crisis, that went on and there was a change in the way that things operated from there. And then 2020, we've had this health crisis which actually changed humanity and how we operate. And it's almost like we're getting these nudges nudges, right? We're getting these nudges that are going like, you're not on the right path, guys. And I was thinking, what would be, you know, 10 years after 2020? What is coming that would be the next kind of crisis? We've had money, we've had health, like it's spirit. And it just struck me that there is this kind of tipping point where there could potentially be whatever the event or circumstances that creates it, there is this need where people will come more into their spirit. And so, you know, the type of work that you're doing and the groundwork and the foundations for people who have the opportunity for the biggest impact, where do you see, you know, your work being able— what's the world with, you know, the, the Heart Method in place and the Coherence Index in place and people who have gone, something's happened, I'm looking for an answer, this it, there's foundations, there's proof here. You've got the statistics that show there's a KPI that says you're going to make more money if you've got a company. What's your big vision? What do you see the world looking like?

It's a great question. I'm not sure I have an answer yet to that one. I guess it's as if I would live in a symphony where everything is harmonious all the time. Now, what is harmony? It can be ups and downs because a symphony goes up and down. There's no— there's not a problem with that. We need sometimes a dissonance for the overall to be seen as harmony. So it doesn't mean that all that we— the experience we currently have of the crisis you mentioned and the, you know, all of a sudden we have an economic uptick that happens and so on and so forth, changes. It does change, though, not only the, the fact that each person that has a purpose and wants it to see, to experience it, will have— will see it in their lifetime instead of always being in that constant failure of themselves. It will also imply that most likely society as a whole will be much more sustainable, regenerative, whatever the name you want to put it on, it doesn't really matter.

Yeah.

Because everything is more in harmony, there is more coherence throughout. And last but not least, every individual living their day-to-day as a beautiful encounter of themselves. In other words, every individual having the opportunity at least to live life as a heaven of themselves and creating, right, companies or art or anything to their heart's content.

And that's how you deal with the tension, right? When tension comes, that's how you deal with it. You've already built up that, almost that resume of resilience or unconscious way of dealing with things because you've been practicing this.

Yes. Tension becomes a gift, as you were mentioning earlier. And that gift enables me to see that aspect of me that was still needed to be looked at and released. If I choose to, I can still continue to work with it, right? It's that pattern that can be part of my, of my ongoing day-to-day. Oh, but the bottom line is I really live from a place of abundance within myself. Therefore, I do the same without myself. Therefore, the society, the environment, the social, environmental, financial are indeed more abundant too. And therefore, I am shining, I am serving humanity, my surrounding in the best possible way I can. And imagine a society like that, right?

Oh my gosh, I'm so excited. I can't wait to see it. I have to say, and I respect your time, but what's landed for me here, Arno, and just talking to you, and it's always a gift to have some of your time because, you know, for a thought leader like yourself who's shaping leaders and organizations and, you know, investments and how people are thinking about how they're investing, et cetera, is extraordinary because it brings everything back to me that if you get the inner game, the outer game is okay. Like the outer game is looked after. Always. So coming into the heart, coming into coherence, using the, the tool that we have that has, you know, proven electricity of 5,000 times the brain and put, put yourself in that place and being present and having those beautiful 7 pillars activated is, is definitely a way of, of living your best life and living a life of abundance. So. Thank you so much. And, and I'd love to just, um, point everyone to the company, uh, tapuatt.com. Now, if you do a forward slash, H for Harry, M for Mary, M for Mary, you can do the assessment. And what are people going to get from that assessment? They're going to get them on a— themselves on a, a position of their index, their coherence.

Yeah, yeah. So they're going to be able to measure their coherence against the 7 pillars that we were talking about: presence, inner peace, inner joy, non-attachment, selflessness, unity, and purpose, which is very exciting because then from there you can have a free call with me or, or one of our guides. You can join our community. You can reach out to us to work with at the corporate level as well. And with that score assessment, there is a good snapshot of where you stand now and when you can head up and remeasure 6 months, 1 year from now, and, and see how you have been able to evolve on that journey. And really, it's, it's an amazing journey of discovery. So I really invite everyone because also the same assessment really sometimes actually triggers some things in people and they, it's already transformational just because of answering the questions.

So, uh, yeah, getting that awareness and insight. Well, thank you so much. And for those of you who do do the assessment, take a copy of it and dump it underneath this interview in the Exit the Matrix with me, uh, writing experiment, because I would love to see where you are. I'm going to put mine there too, and we'll, we'll check back in in 6 months. And see how we're going. Yeah, it's a great, great way the community can keep each other on track. But thank you so much, Arno, and thank you for giving us the gift of this assessment and of your time and insights. And I'm just, I'm so grateful that there's stewards like yourself in the world that are guiding us to, you know, living our life of abundance and aligned to, you know, and really in coherence to what is true to us. So once again, what a gift. Thank you so much.

Well, thank you so much, Jane, for the beautiful energy that you have and these moments that helps me to express myself further. So it's a gift too. Thank you.

You're a symphony. You're a symphony. Thank you, Arnaud. And as always, here's to your success. Bye for now.

Thank you.

Banana pie, bye-bye banana pie, bye-bye banana pie, bye-bye banana.

Thank you for listening to Exit the Matrix Stories of Success. Make sure you subscribe to future episodes at www.exitthematrix.io. Until next time, here's to your success.

Sengkumulu Adiwah. Waila Adiwah.