1159: Components of Mortgage Payments & Market Profile: Central PA

This market specialist was able to tell me the absolute lowest rent they've ever rented in a particular neighborhood within a certain parameter. And that number was great. It was within $50 of what they were telling me. And even if I get the lowest number, that'd be a great return, terrific results. And then the other thing about having people applying and teed up and lined up to rent your properties right away, just because that marketplace is so huge and so many people, that just gives you a sense of confidence that you're going to have a very good cash flowing property without a great deal of risk that's going to sit vacant for a month or two months and that sort of thing.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He, he's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Hey, welcome to episode 1159, 1159. This is your host, Jason Hartman. I've got our in house economist Thomas Young here with me. We want to talk a little bit more about mortgage payments as a follow up to our intro last week for our IMF guest. Thomas. Welcome back.

It's good to be back.

So, mortgage payments, what makes up the mortgage payment calculation? At Meet the Masters, we talked about roa, what we call the big boring idea return on amortization. Talk to us about, you know, what makes up a mortgage payment.

Yeah. So last week we briefly talked about a whole bunch of things that can affect indirectly the mortgage payment. But there are really only three things that go into the mortgage payment calculation. It's the function of the three things, total number of payments, monthly interest and the loan amount, and the payments, the result of those three things.

Okay, so obviously that interest rate has a giant impact. And one of the things you didn't mention of relates to what I said about amortization. Remember, the loan doesn't have to be amortized. Now amortization comes from, I believe it's a Latin word, amort, which means to Kill. In other words, you're killing the mortgage by paying principal and interest every month. But certainly you can have interest only loans. They're not around on mortgages anymore. But they used to be negative amortization loans where you're actually paying less than the interest due and none of the principal. So the loan does what they call negative amortization, where the balance actually increases. And you don't see those anymore because, well, we had a great recession just over 10 years ago.

And the lenders haven't dipped their toe back into that one so far as I know. But it's interesting, right?

Yeah. You know the world of finance.

Yeah. You know Thomas, one of the things that puzzles me as we talked about last weekend at Meet the Masters in the big boring idea, is this concept of what we're calling ROA or return on amortization. You know, very few people really realize how beneficial that becomes when you get, you know, 7, 10, 15 or more years into that mortgage where the tenant is paying that mortgage off for, and you really get a very significant return on amortization. If people go to jasonhartman.com and click on the Properties page and look at some of the pro formas there, those are only for the first year. So the return on amortization or principal reduction, same idea, it's very low. But when you go further into the loan, you know, 10, 15 years in, that becomes huge, doesn't it?

Einstein said it's hard to understand how amazing the compound interest is, but it's amortization. The return on amortization is amazing. It has just as much of an awe inspiring effect on finances. Does. It's just amazing.

Yeah, it really is. Einstein, in fact, I think he said compound interest is the eighth wonder of the world, right? Yeah, yeah. Pretty amazing stuff. So you want this working in your favor as an investor, not to your detriment. Most people have it worked to their detriment. We as investors have it worked to our favor. So when you're looking at calculating a mortgage payment as we talked about before, you may want to look at a 15 year loan versus a 30 year loan because typically you'll get a lower interest rate, but usually it doesn't offset the benefit of inflation induced debt destruction and it pays to actually take the higher rate and the longer term. That may not always be the case though, because in a market where interest rates are higher, like one we might experience in the future, it might be better off to take that 15 year loan and just chunk out some of that interest. But today I definitely think the 30 year loan, even though you're going to pay a little bit higher interest rate, is well worth it. What do you think, Thomas?

Oh, I agree most, you know, I don't know the percentages, maybe 75, 80% of the time. It's probably more beneficial to do the 30 year over the 15 year. Obviously it depends on individual situation and expectations of the future.

Yeah. So if you think rates are going to go up a lot and you can get a low 30 or 3 decade long mortgage today, hey, lock it in. But if you think rates might be lower in the future, in the distant future, we're talking many years, 10 or 15 years. Maybe it might be better to do the 15 year old loan. So you know, expectations are a big part of it for any investor as you said, Right?

Yeah, I think the world of finance is, you know, is an expectations world.

Yeah, no question about that. It's been said that the stock market is just a reflection of a giant number of investors expectations toward the future. And, and that's really what the economy is too, isn't it?

Yep.

Well, Thomas, any other thoughts on this before we get to our guest?

Think carefully about the amortization. It's amazing what it can do to a return.

Yeah, it can really, really benefit you as an investor. Fantastic. Thanks for joining me. And let's go to our guest.

Hey, I'd like to dive into an interview with our local market specialist in South Central Pennsylvania. Now when I was a little kid, I used to live in Pennsylvania. I've always thought this is a good market, but finding the right team there has been challenging and I think we've cracked the code. They've sold over 2,500 homes locally around, are really, really active in this market. So I'm looking forward to hearing more. So what makes South Central so great?

So it's a real good question. South Central Pennsylvania, based on its proximity, just a short drive from the capital In Harrisburg, about 50% of the units we do on an annual basis are actually in Harrisburg and the surrounding neighborhoods. We're also about 35 minutes north of Baltimore, where the prevailing wage in Baltimore is considerably higher than what it is in South Central Pennsylvania. So we find that we have quite a few people that live in South Central PA. But commute, it's a relatively short commute, about 25 to 40 minutes depending on whether you're headed north or south. So the average price in our area is only about 160. And with a short commute, people can earn wages pushing the six Figures. So we're very centrally located and neighboring those two really thriving job markets. So people can buy and live here at a reasonable cost of living and then make a short commute and sometimes double their income.

Yeah, yeah. That's fantastic. So that's a really good rent to income ratio or price to income ratio. And we've seen that on a lot of our markets over the years. Now, talk about the resurgence of these areas. I mean, Baltimore has some stigma attached to it, certainly, but, you know, like everything, it's micro markets. Okay. And, you know, it all comes down to neighborhoods and sub markets and so forth. Pennsylvania has been a very impressive comeback story. You know, just several decades ago, we had Bruce Springsteen talking about how everything was so blighted. Do you attribute that to just good governance, good management? What. What's going on?

It'd be hard for me to probably give the credit where the credit is due. But what we've seen on our end in Pennsylvania, and particularly in our market has been a commitment to industry and job creation. As you get through some of the statistics, which I won't bore you with a lot of that information now, but there's been a tremendous job growth in this particular area. And then, of course, the job growth drives, you know, the demand for housing. So it started, I mean, I would say, know, probably in 2009-2010 is really where we started to see the increase in job availability, the increase in wage. And then as we've all seen it, and you've been doing this long enough, where you've seen the changing markets, the real estate kind of followed shortly thereafter. So it used to be back 10 years ago, half the people I knew were either unhappy with their job or looking for one. And now can honestly say that our job market here is the best that I've ever seen and has been that way for about the last eight to nine years and seems to be getting better.

Yeah, I mean, what's driving the job market? You know, a few key employers, and this kind of speaks back to who is that target tenant in the properties you offer.

So for us, what we've seen is the majority of our tenants have been a younger profile that wouldn't necessarily classify them as millennials, but with our renovations, we attract what I would say is a pretty high quality tenant. Our average income is for our tenants above the county and state average. The job market has mostly been. There's a couple key employers. So about eight minutes from my office is a huge Harley Davidson plant. An entry level employee there works 40 hours a week and makes about $75,000 a year working on an assembly line. So typically that person that's making that type of income can buy a quarter of a million dollar house. In our area, that's a pretty substantial property.

Right.

We're also about 30 minutes from Gettysburg. I'm sure everybody that did their history homework knows what Gettysburg is. Right. Drives a tremendous amount of tourism traffic and always has. And then that area around Gettysburg has thrived over the last couple years and they've really capitalized on the tourism where it used to just be the park and, you know, maybe the mile or so around the park was busy, but now that's expanded well into Adams county and 15 to 20 miles surrounding the park. There's hotels and they just built a Gettysburg Gateway, which is a big movie theater and shopping district. They got a big outlet center up there. There's a gated lake community right off of the battlefield as well. That's been a super hot location for us, not only with buy and resell, but also in the rental market. So Hanover Shoe Hanover is a small little area just outside of York between here and Adams County. Employs thousands of people. Snyder's Foods, Martin's Potato chips. There's huge industry and a lot of these companies, you know, Harley Davidson's been in business for. I mean, I'd be lying if I told you I knew the exact year, but they've been here as long as I can remember and I'll be 44 this year. And that's always kind of been the job that everybody wanted. Right. If you worked at a factory around York county in Adams county, your goal was to get that klutz job at Harley Davidson. So there's definitely some, some key larger areas, you know, or larger employers here that really drive the prevailing wage.

Yeah, right, right. Good. Tell us more about the city. But then I want to ask you about the target properties and the rehabs you do. I think you have more to say on the economy and the area and so forth and the job creation.

You know, a lot of these are local to our area. And while they might seem big in Pennsylvania, on a national level, they might be small, but there's giant food stores. I mean, certainly with the government being just 25 minutes from Harrisburg, there's lots of government positions and jobs that provide a tremendous amount of stability when it comes to benefits and wages and things of that sort. You know, we're only a 40 minute drive from three different army bases, so we see a lot of people that, you know, commute to those different areas. Yeah. So from an economic standpoint, we're heavy industry around this area. Rite Aid Corporation, Harley Davidson. We talked about giant food stores, pretty substantial agricultural and food processing in Adams County. There's Musselman's applesauce. I'm not sure if you've ever heard of that. It's my favorite. But there's a huge apple orchard area just outside of Adams county about 40 minutes west of here. So those are just a few. The government, some of the bigger manufacturers. Hershey Foods is one of our core markets. It's about 35 minutes north of my office. They run a huge entertainment company. It's kind of like Six Flags. I'm not sure if you've ever seen Hershey park, but they have a big venue up there that hosts huge concerts. And then the foods, right. They make all the chocolates and candies that we love. That's where they make my personal favorite, Reese's peanut butter cups. So that's a huge. You know, all of the manufacturing for Hershey is done 30, 35 minutes north of here. So it's a big, big employer for this area. Not only the parks and, you know, entertainment industry they have up there, but their food industry up there is huge for us.

Yeah. And not to mention that chocolate is the food of the gods, so. Exactly. I mean, I think the only thing I might like better than income property is chocolate. So, you know, if you can pair.

Them together, it's a perfect match.

It really is a perfect match. Good stuff. Okay, so transportation. You know, one of the documents I'm looking at talks about, about strategic location, transportation network, et cetera. So tell us about the transportation network and how that fuels the economy there.

So I'll reflect back a little bit on the beginning of our conversation. There's two main interstates that run directly through our Hometown. It's Route 83 and Route 30 and 83 directly runs from Harrisburg, the capital of Pennsylvania, down into Baltimore, Maryland, which is obviously a large metropolitan area. So where we're located is the direct connector between those two. So people that commute, you know, obviously have easy access like we talked about. If they commute to either one of those areas for employment, you know, what might otherwise be a two hour drive because of our proximity to those major interstates. It gives them easy access to cut that drive time in half and makes it much more reasonable for someone to live in a different area than where they work. And then Route 30 runs east and west of here, which connects our Lancaster market to our Adams County Market. It's also a major pass through. Like we have a large cold storage company called ES3 that sits directly off of Interstate 83 that supplies somewhere in the neighborhood of over 1500 grocers with their cold storage directly out of one facility. So those two main interstates make it super easy to get to Baltimore. For me, if I want to go down to Baltimore and catch a baseball game, it's a 40 minute drive and I'm literally three minutes off the interstate. So just super easy to get east, west, north and south to major metropolitan areas from. From where we live, the commute. Super easy.

Yeah. Okay, so let's talk a little bit about the target properties. What properties you pick, what properties you like as long term buy and hold rental properties. Then let's go into, you know, after we talk about that kind of target property and the target tenant a little bit, what you do in terms of your rehab for these properties.

So for us, what we look for, just like any town, we have a city, right. So we have our center city. And then so for us, where we start from is areas surrounding our city. In established residential neighborhoods, we're typically looking at anywhere from two to four bedroom single family homes. We like our target rents to be between the 1200-1500 range. You know, as far as location wise, we're always looking for the same locations where someone would want to live. Right. So when we target rental properties, even though they're rental properties, we want to make sure that these are locations and neighborhoods where someone would, would want to buy a home as well. Right. We'll typically find our average rental property in established neighborhoods, easy access to those major interstates that we talked about in good school districts with average or below average tax bases, where, you know, we're very focused on what the, you know, the yearly real estate taxes are for those particular properties. So then from a renovation perspective, we focus on really three or four core non negotiables for us, which when we talk about major systems like H vac roofs, windows, doors, kitchens and baths, when we approach these renovations, we go in with either the intent to replace with brand new or that those existing systems at the time of purchase have at least 10 years worth of life expectancy. So the major mechanicals are our primary focus.

Right.

Because we understand certainly the cost of those are relatively substantial. So when we approach our renovations, those major mechanicals have at least 10 years of useful life. And if they don't, they're brand new, we replace them at the time of our renovation. When we do kitchen and baths. We're doing typically ground up kitchen and bath remodeling. Most of our homes will get either new cabinets and countertops, which are typically solid surface. When we replace H vac systems, we're using high efficiency systems. They're being installed by licensed tradesmen. We have very specific quality standards. We have one project manager for roughly every six projects. They visit those projects no less than two times per week. We really, really, you know, drive hard the different phases of the project, and we have quality inspections built in to each one of those construction phases. One thing that we've done done, it's a little unique, or at least I believe it's unique, is we do two home inspections on each of our properties, and we really do it for our own peace of mind. We do one at the beginning of the renovation. And the reason we do that is we don't want to identify any defects that we otherwise might not have detected. So we pay a home inspector. They go in for, you know, four and a half, five hours, and they dig around on our property before we start renovations. That way, if we can identify any defects that need to be addressed, we want to include that in our scope of work. Then at the conclusion of the renovation, we actually do another home inspection because we want to verify the integrity of the work that's been done. So we've done a four or six week project. Our project manager's overseeing the renovations. We've done our four to six quality checks. We control the material selection. We've always bought the majority of our construction materials from Home Depot. We supply all the materials so that we know that, you know, we're supplying quality materials. But at the end of the project, we send that person in, that home inspector, to go in and do that home inspection to verify that all the work that we've done plus the items that were addressed on the original home inspection have all been taken care of.

So should a buyer get a home inspection then, or what do you think about that?

I would always encourage them to do so.

Okay.

Typically a home inspections in our areas, less than $500. I'm a buyer. I've renovated over 2,500 homes, and I get two home inspections on every house that I buy. Right. So even after the extensive experience I have renovating homes, I still like to have a home inspector tell me everything's okay.

I'm glad you said that. Okay, good.

So we have and we actually offer so that final report is available to any buyer. You know, that's something we're willing to Share with someone. If they say, hey, let's take a look at that final home inspection you have done, I may or may not choose to do another one. And if they want to use that and for their records, that's fine. But we deal with, you know, several home inspection companies here locally, and I would encourage anybody to get a home inspection.

What do you do in terms of the property rehab? Are there certain things you always do? Tell us about the standards for your rehab, if you would. And I know you alluded to it already, but tell us more. Yeah, give us an idea as to how that works.

No problem. So we start from the major mechanicals and we work our way effectively out, right? So the first thing that we do is we inspect the roof, the windows, H vac, plumbing, electrical, kitchens and baths. And we want to verify that those systems have no less than 10 years worth of useful life. Those are the first things we address. If they don't have 10 years worth of useful life, we replace them. So let's say the roof on an existing Property doesn't have 10 years of useful life. When we replace it, we replace it with a 30 year architectural shingle. So by 30 year, I mean that that shingle is guaranteed for 30 years. Typically, our H vac systems come with no less than a 10 year manufacturer's warranty. And then from cosmetic or, you know, let's say carpentry related renovations, where maybe we finished a basement or, or we've installed some new flooring, we updated the plumbing and electrical. Anything that we've touched on the inside of that property comes with a one year Craftsman warranty. Maybe it's not a material failure, it's something that was done during the renovation that didn't hold up. It comes with a one year workmanship warranty that we stand behind. And we've been in business just shy of 14 years now. So we have over 30 subcontractors that we work with on a consistent basis. And occasionally we'll have something come up where an investor we sold a property to maybe three to nine months after they've purchased the property, get, you know, something that pops up and it's maybe there was a piece of hardwood flooring that's come loose or you know, there's a small plumbing leak. That's something that we did, you know, nine months earlier. We stand behind that workmanship for one year and that supersedes any manufacturer's warranty, Right. So you get the combination of both. Anything that we replace comes with a manufacturer warranty. Any workmanship Issues, we back for one year.

Okay, explaining the warranty just a little bit more. Someone buys a property from you today, eight months go by, something goes wrong, what do you cover, what don't you cover?

So anything that we replaced, adjusted or worked on is covered. Let's say for example, we installed new interior doors, right? Or we installed a screen door and there's a tenant that occupies that property, they dispatch our property management company and say my storm doors come loose, it won't close correctly. The property management division would notify us inside of that system. It would show that the purchase date is inside of one year and they would automatically notify our maintenance department. That's a warrantable issue. We would go out, obviously identify that it wasn't, you know, some type of tenant issue where if they made the damage or otherwise, we would then just make the repair and bill it internally. Hopefully that addresses your question about what a warrant. Quite frankly, the investor wouldn't even know about it. It would be addressed. It would be repaired and built automatically.

When someone buys a property from you, is the H vac system new, is the water heater new or does it depend?

The answer is it depends, but it's one of two things. Things. It's either got a life expectancy of 10 years or it's brand new.

Okay.

Those are the only two variations of what we consider to be quote unquote turnkey.

Okay, okay, tell us about the. Well, what else do you want us to know about rehabs? I mean we could talk all day on this. I know, but I just want to give people an overview because I want to go back to the sweet spot properties. You know, what price range are they? You know, what do they rent for? For those types of questions we gotta make sure we answer that. But more on the rehab, just quickly.

Yeah, I mean, I think just as an overview, we approach major mechanical systems as a non negotiable for us. Like we talked about, it's either 10 years of life expectancy or brand new.

Right?

That's a non negotiable for us. It's a standard that we've always used and will continue to use moving forward typically with inside of our what we consider to be turn items where, you know, let's say you had a good tenant that occupied the property for two to three years, they've made the decision to move on, the property goes vacant and we send property management in to do an evaluation of what needs to be done to get it re rented. Typically with our flooring, we like to use luxury Vinyl planking and hardwoods and laminates. These items do not need replaced each and every time a tenant moves out, as opposed to carpeting. So we really try and limit the amount of capital investment each time a property goes, because the reality is you own a property for 15 years, you could have four tenants or you could have 14. Right. So we want to put that particular investor and that property in a position to where, if the property's well taken care of and maintained, that we should really limit the amount of money that needs to be spent each time a new tenant moves in. So we focus on using more durable materials. Even though our cost up front is a little bit more expensive, it limits that amount of money that needs to be spent, you know, over the course of the next 15 to 30 years. And then we're just very intentional about quality. I mean, when it comes to renovating properties, you know, our primary focus is quality. So we're very intentional about the time that the project manager, you know, is on the job, the amount of inspections that are done, our exposure to a home inspector at the conclusion of the job. We'd rather get out in front of any of those issues because when you're. When you're dealing with properties, you're going to have mechanical failures. So we want to make sure we identify those early and often so we can address them. So during the ownership period of the property, there should be minimal to very little maintenance that's required. So that's our focus. I mean, when we go into these, we know that, you know, you buy it once, but you own it for the next 25 to 30, 35 years.

Right, right.

So we really approach the renovations from a longevity standpoint and trying to minimize maintenance.

Good. I like it. I like it. That target properties price range in rent.

Range, our typical property value ranges from $90,000 to 150. So occasionally we'll get some, you know, a little bit more expensive. We don't really go much below that. Anything below. Below that $90,000 price range for us kind of compromises the location and what I would consider to be the quality of the tenant, because it really drives for US 90 to 15 or $150,000. Property is about $1,000 to $1,500 a month rental. And normally you'll find that someone that's renting between $1,000 to $1,500 a month is making at or above our median income. Right. So for our area, that's around 50, so thousand dollars, which means they have an established position, you know, More than likely have, you know, longer tenure on the job if they're earning that type wage. So we specifically target properties that will appeal to our ideal tenant. Does that make sense?

Sure. Okay, so how much does that property cost to buy and how much does it rent for each month?

Typically, let's say a $90,000 property will rent for between 950 and $1,000 a month.

And it's sort of incremental all the way up to, you know, our higher price points that are maybe 150 to 170 would be on the higher end of a property that you would purchase in our market once you get a typically 1% of the sale price. So $150,000 property should rent for $1,500 a month.

Okay, that's pretty, that's pretty good in this market, for sure. Some people are probably asking, what's the catch? And I'm. There's no HOA on these properties, right? These are not an HOA.

I would say less than 10% of our properties have any HOA or condo fee or anything associated with the property.

Do you have any Section eight?

We do.

Okay. What percentage is that? Is Section eight half or less?

Yeah, I mean, it's. We can be selective about it. I mean, we have market rents and then section 8 and we'll make a decision about, so the lower end of our properties, let's say 80 to $100,000, we find the sweet spot to be Section 8. And our properties are typically such a good fit because the inspections that come along with Section 8 from a safety perspective are so easy for us because our standards are higher than the Section 8 standards. And then of course there's the guaranteed income that comes along with it, the annual inspections by Section 8. There's a lot of requirements and responsibility that the tenant need to maintain in order to retain that Section 8 voucher. But I would say it's less than 50%. It's on our lower priced properties. Between 80,000 and $100,000 is normally Section 8. Anything above that? We found that it's a little bit more desirable for us to go with a market rent when it's over about that thousand $1,100 probably. I mean, I'd say it's less than 50%, but maybe closer to 40%. So it's close.

Okay, so wondering what's the catch? And I bet a lot of listeners are, because that rent to value ratio is very good considering the market we're in. What are the property taxes? Like, what are the insurance Costs, like, so insurance is.

I mean, let's say on $140,000, investment property is between 4 and $500 annually in my experience. I mean, I own real estate in other states and across different markets, and that 4 to $500 is, I would say, less expensive than what I'm paying elsewhere.

Okay, what about the property taxes?

The taxes. So let's say on an average $150,000 property, the taxes are on average, let's say, $3,000 a year, which are county, municipal, and then school taxes all combined.

Okay, good. Why, why did you get into and why do you love real estate? Wrap it up with that.

The easiest answer for that is, I mean, I enjoy the transformation of property, right? So I got into this business buying distressed properties and renovating properties. And, you know, at that time, what excited me about the real estate business, which was almost 15 years ago now, was the transformation of the properties. Right. I was really passionate about transforming a, you know, really destitute property and turning it around to, you know, something show.

It'S a nice, creative venture. For sure. I like that. I like the creation aspect.

That's what got me into it. But I can tell you what keeps me in it is the human element, right? So, like, typically when we buy properties and we buy most of our properties direct from seller, so I'm sitting down with, you know, families and, you know, a lot of the properties we purchase or maybe an estate from, you know, someone that passed away, and the family's, you know, tasked with liquidating the assets, and we buy a lot of property in this area from folks that are either downsizing or relocating. So on the front end of this business, I'm really able to help out over 200 people a year, liquidate real estate. And most of the properties we buy are in some need of repair. And our average seller is over the age of 65. So if you could imagine, when I turn 65, probably at the top of my list won't be remodeling my home. I would hope that I would be in a position to sell my home for a fair price. And at that point, if I want to relocate, then I would have the flexibility to do so. So the short answer is it's the human factor for me that really makes me passionate about real estate. Like, I buy and sell homes, but really what, you know, kind of drives me and gets me out of bed in the morning and keeps me up at night is how I can provide a better service to the people that come with those properties. It's super exciting when we see, you know, particularly a younger professional that's, you know, pushed their way through college and work multiple jobs and are maybe scared to buy a home but know that they don't want to live in an apartment with four people and would like to enjoy not owning a home but living in a property of their own. Right. So they make the decision to rent, but they like something that's been renovated. Right. And typically in most rental markets you're stuck either being in some large multifamily that might have not been renovated for 15 years or a non owner occupant person that moved out of a property and rents it just to offset their mortgage payment, doesn't want to spend any money on it. So just to see people and the joy that it brings to them to have the opportunity to live in a home that's been renovated without making the big commitment of buying a home. Right. Particularly in that, that younger demographic. A 25 year old kid today is scared to death to buy a home. Yeah, when I was 25, he's already.

He'S already got a mortgage payment, he just didn't get a house with it.

It's called if I was, When I was 25, I was four years into a mortgage and my dad was screaming at me that I got started too late and I'm never going to make any money because I didn't buy a house.

Yeah, right.

So yeah, I mean for me it's really the human factor. It's, you know, certainly the real estate is the, the asset that's exchanged, but for me it's, it's the involvement with the people.

Right.

You know, for us, as we've grown our turnkey business and giving investors the opportunity to build wealth and partner with folks like yourself is just another extension of that. Right. So that's, that's really what I'm passionate about while I'm in real estate. It's really the people that are on every side of that potential transaction, from the seller that I've helped liquidate the estate, to the contractors that we employ to, to the lenders that we facilitate business through to the partners like yourself that we're able to do business with and then to the eventual investor, homeowner and tenant. I mean, on any one transaction, for me there's four to seven people involved. I know that might be a sappy response.

Yeah, yeah, I was, I was, I was, I was looking for the money response. You know, like you love the return.

On investment, it comes with it. But for me, that's a residual benefit. You know, if you provide a valuable service, the money has a way of taking care of itself.

Right.

Like it's, it's just that that that comes with it. Certainly not my focus and it's not what I'm passionate about.

Absolutely. Tess. Well, good stuff. Thank you for the profile on your market. That was a long one, but we went into a lot of depth, so we appreciate it and we will look forward to sending you more investor buyers. Thanks again.

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