1221 FBF: Smart Technology Improving Self Management, Meetings Suck & Your Vivid Vision with Cameron Herold

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Welcome to the Creating Wealth show, episode number 920. This is your host, Jason Hartman and I am live, well, as live as you can be on a podcast, I guess, here on the exhibit floor of the IMN conference in beautiful Phoenix, Arizona. And I'm with a familiar guest that's been on the show a couple of times and I usually don't let her talk enough because I talk too much. So I apologize in advance. And that is Kerry, our investment counselor. Say hello, Kerri.

Hey everyone. Thanks Jason for letting me be on.

Well, good to have you. It is fascinating walking around this conference and seeing some of the speakers today. I am speaking tomorrow talking about demographics, one of my favorite topics as it applies to real estate investors. And Kerry, what has struck me, you know, we're in the middle of this exhibit hall looking at all these trade show booths. There are dozens and dozens and dozens of vendors. And this is really this real estate investing in single family homes. Because it's a single family home conference, not a multi unit conference. It's not big apartments, it's not office buildings, it's not retail shopping centers, it's not anything else. It's not industrial properties. Single family homes is what this conference is all about. Maybe good thousand or more people here. This is really becoming an industry, isn't it?

Yeah, it's very surprising. You know, I've never been to one of these. I know you've been to them a lot, but these conferences are just every other Booth can go towards an investor for single families. It's everything from financing to property management services. Everyone can relate to this as a single family investor.

Repair services, maintenance companies that do nationwide maintenance. One of the ones that we thought was really interesting. I know we've talked to you today. We stopped by their booth twice. Is a company that does property manager reviews and tenant reviews. And I think this is a great opportunity, you know, what do you think about that?

Yeah, it's going to be definitely great for both the tenants and the property management. I mean, everyone gets to review each other in a way they explain it like Uber. You get to review your driver. Well, you get to review your manager now, and the manager in return reviews you. So I think it's beneficial to both sides of who gets the property and who you're renting to.

Yeah, I totally agree. You know, when you look on a website like Yelp, for example, or TripAdvisor, you see the establishments get reviewed and you can follow certain reviewers to see, you know, if you like their reviews, think they're thoughtful, you can follow them. But why doesn't a tenant have a review reputation that follows them from property to property? Now, of course, you can say, well, you run a credit report or. And they're a criminal background check, but that's not enough. You need real reviews. And we had a guest on the show, Kerry, you'll remember this one, actually. The landlord and tenant can agree to actually let the tenant's rent payment history go on their credit report. I think this is genius. I think it's good for the landlords and the tenants.

Definitely. Yeah. I mean, it's giving you a track record and you have to own up to what you're expecting, both from your tenants and from the property managers.

Absolutely. So this company that we're talking about basically takes data from the property manager's software, downloads it into their system, and then you see this data on the tenant on what kind of condition they left the property in. What was their payment history like? I mean, folks, you know, one of the things I talk about, Kerry, is how you can buy the property today and forever change the complexion of the deal. By refinancing it, by renting it to a different kind of tenant, by fixing it up, by doing all these things. Your investment isn't the same the day you buy it. You can change it over the course of time. Well, you know, another way this is all happening, and as we're looking around at all these booths, the tools for you as a real estate investor are Just getting better and better and better. And when we learn about them and we vet them, we will bring them to you and we will interview these experts on the show. We've got a whole bunch of new show guests today. Just from mingling and networking today, the tools for investors. We're going to have a lot of these at Meet the Masters as well. But just phenomenal stuff here today, huh?

Yeah, it's great. All the panels discussions, you know, there's several different single family discussions from financing, like I said, multifamily. Just a variety of different topics that they're talking about that everyone can strike in one way or another because it's a panel. So you're getting a different view and perspective from each professional.

And that panel that we just witnessed, you really can tell this industry is growing up, this single family home investing industry, because remember that panelist Kerry that said that their company has done 6,000 deals and some of those panelists talked about how they're building entire communities of single family homes just to rent.

Right?

Yeah.

And new construction and picking the pockets and doing a variety of different research and analyzing where they can go and what's going to be beneficial in the home. Affordable rates, 150s, you know, for new construction. I mean, it's phenomenal what they can do now.

Yeah, it really is. It really is. And it's getting so much more efficient. The information available to investors is getting better and better every day. The tools available to investors. You weren't there when I sat on this one panel this morning, but they were talking about technology and smart home technology. Right. And how they are using electronic locks, which we've talked about before on the show. You know, I think we're really moving toward unbundled property manager services. We have a little bit of it now that's happening in the legal profession for sure, but we're moving toward the empowered investor where they can really self manage their property a lot better than they ever could before. Self manage from a distance. This one panelist this morning talked about how he lives in Tampa, Florida, and he said he left in a hurry because of the hurricane, took his kid with him and thankfully took his kid.

Oh, that was kind of him.

Carrie, would you take your kids if the hurricane was coming?

Well, I have three of them, so one of them would make it.

You know, when you have more than one kid, that's basically what you're doing is playing the odds. You know, it's why you should diversify. Folks, you know, don't just buy one property have at least three and ideally in three different markets.

So one of them to make it.

Yeah, yeah, hopefully two. Hopefully two out of three would make it. But yeah, it's quite interesting because he said before he came back to the property, he sent a signal to the electronic lock for his dog sitter to open the house and make sure everything was okay. Now the dog wasn't there. He took the dog, fortunately. Leave the kid, take the dog, I don't know anyway, but took the dog and just got the message from the dog sitter, Hey, I looked in the house, everything's okay, it's secure. So no hurry back, right? It's truly amazing. With a smart technology, all these houses are becoming smart and that makes it easier and easier to self manage property. Any thoughts on that?

Yeah, well, and it's making it easier and easier and then it's also cutting your costs. So your returns are getting a little higher as well. And I mean all, you know, you just have to research and know which tools are going to be best for you. Everything from photographers to tenant screening, it's all out there. And you just, you gotta know what you want and we'll help you.

Yeah, that's exactly what we do here. So we will help you with all of that stuff. We kind of covered a little bit of the conference here, but there's a lot more to talk about and we'll have a lot of these exhibitors and presenters here on the show in the future, on future episodes. But hey, the five year plan contest. Do you just love the creativity with some of these entries? Our clients are so creative.

They're so creative and so thoughtful. I mean it is planned out to the T. What they want, what they're expecting. You know, everything from people writing it on their mirrors, they see it in the morning every single day, to you know, the husband and wife together. It's, it's really coming along really nice.

Dressing up in professional wrestler costumes to make us remember who this was. You know, there's all kinds, there's all kinds of cool stuff. So keep up the good work. Get your 5 year plan videos part posted as soon as possible. Because remember everybody, one of the criteria to win is how many views you got, how many thumbs up, how many comments on your videos, all that kind of stuff. Not simply the quality of the video, although the quality and content of the video, very important, but also the popularity of it. So share it on your Facebook page, share it on Twitter, share it on all your social media accounts, LinkedIn, whatever you want. Okay? Get more Views. Email it to your friends and ask them to like and comment and share it as well. That will get you the most views 5 year plan contest Again, Carrie, people are doing this for themselves, not for us. Winning the contest is just a perk. You're really doing it for yourself.

Right. You're doing it for yourself and you're in for a chance to come to Meet the Masters where you're gonna learn even more and your plan is gonna exceed even further with all the speakers and the lineup that we have.

Yeah. So Meet the Masters is coming along great. You are getting the schedule going here as we're kind of starting to schedule things for Friday, Saturday and Sunday, folks. Do not leave early on Sunday. Do not arrive late on Friday. Make sure you're there for the whole entire time of this event. You'll want to see all the speakers and you know, being around Monday and leaving Monday morning. Now Venture alliance has a whole day together on Monday, which by the way is Martin Luther King Day. So a lot of you will have a holiday then. You definitely want to hang around Monday because you may want to meet with some of the people personally, individually, have private meetings with some of the presenters and the local market specialists and so forth. So don't cheat yourself. Don't schedule your plane for 4 o' clock Sunday afternoon, okay? Stay another night. It's not expensive. The day following is a holiday, so make the most of it. This is only once a year and this is our 20th anniversary event, so be sure to do that. Jasonhartman.com masters jasonhartman.com masters and for the contest, jasonhartman.com contest. Kerry, thanks so much for joining me today.

Hey, thanks Jason.

So let's get to our guest today. This is a 10th episode show. What does that mean, folks? Every episode that ends in a zero, we go off topic. We talk about something of general life, success and general interest. So we will do that right now. Here's our 10th episode guest.

It's my pleasure to welcome Cameron Herald to the show. You've probably heard his name. He's an international speaker and author of three books including Meetings suck and the best selling book Double Double how to double your revenue and profit in three years or less which is currently in its seventh printing. He's the mastermind behind hundreds of companies exponential growth and has built a dynamic consultancy including his time as CEO of a company you've definitely heard of called 1-800-GETJUNK. His current clients include a big four wireless carrier and a monarchy. He is founder of COO alliance and helps COOs become better leaders. He's got a new book coming out about what I think is his favorite or my favorite thing of his work, which is about Vivid Visions. I first saw him speak in Morocco actually, so a long ways away back about 10 years ago when he was doing a presentation for Yeo, which is now known as EO. And it's great to have him on the show. Cameron, welcome. How are you?

Good, Jason. Thanks for having me.

It's good to have you. And just to give our listeners a sense of geography, are you in Scottsdale, Arizona?

I am Scottsdale, Arizona. I also split my time a little bit between Vancouver, Canada, but I'm permanently based in Scottsdale now.

Fantastic. Well, we can hear your Canadian accent.

Say about for us.

I'm not gonna do it.

What do you want me to talk about today?

There you go. There you go. Well, hey, I'm really excited about your new book, Cameron. After I saw you speak in Marrakech, Morocco, about 10 years ago, I went to Portugal afterwards and I was there solo. So it was a great time to just kind of assimilate the stuff I learned at that YEO conference. And I wrote my Vivid Vision two pages long. Just a phenomenal exercise. Take us through how that improve one's life, their business, just anything they want to work on, you know, creating the future. You know, I recently I interviewed Jordan Peterson who has a program called Self Authoring, and this strikes me the same way. I was talking with Mark Victor Hansen the other day and his old book Future Diary. You know, just kind of writing and authoring one's future. It's a great exercise.

Yeah. The problem right now is that most people are doing it wrong. You know, what we've been taught in the business schools or in business in general is to have a mission statement. You get all your employees together and you mash up a bunch of your favorite words into one sentence. And that's supposed to be your mission statement, Go team.

You mean one of those things that everybody will do a three day retreat for and no one will ever read it after they create it?

Right, Right. And you walk out of the meeting going, this is so hokey. It's so lame. And it really doesn't explain what the company looks and feels like. I mean, it's only one sentence. How can that possibly describe your future? And even if we're talking about our personal lives, do we really sit down with our spouse and discuss what's our family look like three years from now? What are our core values for our Family, where are we going? How are we going to manage our financials? How do we manage the flow of our day to day? How do we manage our dreams? Where are we taking things? What happens is people are really just working hard, being busy, running hard, running their family quickly, but almost going in no real direction at all. It's interesting, I read a quote today on stoicism and it was a quote from seneca back in A.D. 45, 2,000 years ago.

A while ago, yes.

And he said that no matter what harbor you're going towards, it doesn't matter where the wind blows from, if you don't know which harbor you're pointing to.

Right.

It's kind of like if you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there. Right. From Alice in Wonderland.

Sure, yeah.

So we kind of kept digging in and looking at businesses and business owners kept saying that they were holding people accountable and trying to manage people. And why don't people make the same decisions I do? And why am I as the leader, the only person who's so intuitive? What we realized was that the reason that the leader was intuitive was they were the only one who saw the vision for their company. Much like a family. Again, if you're, let's say a husband and wife building a family together, have you really actually shared with your spouse where you want to take the family? And have you really found out where they want to take the family? And have you merged those together as a shared vision? So we kind of codified it and we created a concept called A Vivid Vision that turns out to end up being about a four or five page written document. Back in the early days, two pages seemed to suffice, but we've now built it out so it's a little bit more even in depth than it used to be. And it's a four or five page written document that describes your company or your personal life three years in the future. So you literally lean out to December 31, 2020 and you describe every aspect of your company or you describe every aspect of your personal life.

Fantastic. So with this vivid vision, it's like painting a sensory rich vision of the future. What kind of business do you want to have? What kind of real estate portfolio do you want to have? What kind of life do you want to have? What kind of family do you want to. It's just a great exercise. But in your upcoming book, Cameron, you're going to really. And this is one of the great things I think you did at 1-800-got junk, as I remember you talking about it, is like reverse engineering that. Okay, so you've created this vivid vision, what your future looks like three years from now. You also called it the painted picture, I believe. But then you've got to go back and you've got to make it all happen. You've got to reverse engineer it. So take us into that process a little bit.

The best kind of analogy that everyone will understand is when you were building a house or doing a renovation, let's say you were getting a kitchen renovation. The person in charge of that whole job is really the homeowner. They have a vision for what the kitchen needs to look like when it's done, but they don't really care how the electrical gets done or how the plumbing gets done or how the cabinets get hung. They just know what they want it to look like in the end result. And the contractor takes their vision, takes their pictures, their sketches, their drawings, their words, their ideas, and takes all those and goes away for a week or two and comes back with blueprints or effectively the plans to make the vision come true. And when the homeowner and the contractor sign off on the blueprints or the plans, they can now give the plans to the employees or the workers, and the workers can recreate that dream. So in the business world, we do that same process. We lean out into the future almost like we went into a time machine three years from now, describing the company in its finished state. And then the way you reverse engineer that is, every sentence of that vivid vision is a future state. And you figure out one or two projects to make every sentence come true, and then you build out the projects. You complete all those projects in the best possible order that makes logical sense. Much like building a house, you do the foundation first, then you put up the walls, then you put in the electrical and the plumbing. You build a business the same way. You build up the foundation and you build out from there. And most people or most entrepreneurs are so distracted by the big shiny object or the busyness of the day to day that they're often working on the. The cool stuff or the fun stuff, but they're building a very shaky foundation either for their lives or for their business.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. So the shiny object distracts us, but, you know, there's just a million things to do in any business. I mean, I think this also applies to just building a career, right? Being an intrapreneur inside of a company. Can you use this for that purpose as well?

Yeah, absolutely. I've seen A lot of companies have actually had directors or VPs have designed a vivid vision for their business area, or you craft one again for your personal life. And all it is is leaning out into the future and deciding where are we going either with my life, with my family, with my business area, with my company, where are we going, what does it look like? And then once I'm really clear on what it looks like, then I can reverse engineer it and figure out how I'm going to go there again. If we were sitting in Miami right now saying, let's drive somewhere, we just get in a car and start driving. But if we said let's drive to New York, then we've got a destination. We can reverse engineer the drive from New York all the way back to Miami and we can figure out what are all the things we want to do and see along the way. And we can create a better trip, a better life along the way.

Right? Right. Absolutely. Okay, so what are some of the elements like now this Vivid Vision is four or five pages, so it's gotten longer and more comprehensive. Could it be Cameron too, that one of the dangers of making it too long is that it just sort of becomes this thing you never look at again?

Yeah. If you get past the four or five page mark, it's going to become way too long for people to wrap their head around or to care. But it seems to be around four pages. When you add the design elements to it, the graphics elements to it, and the font that is readable, that it kind of ends up at about a four or five page PDF. The way that you're going to use this is every quarter you're going to reread the Vivid Vision with your team. I actually read my personal Vivid Vision at least two or three times a week.

Wow.

It's on my Daily Habit list. I have a list that I track all my daily habits. I'm supposed to try to do it daily, but I never really end up getting it done. But it's two or three times a week I'm reading my personal vivid vision of where I want to be three years from now. And it just helps me think about the future while I'm busy working on today. It helps guide my decisions.

So it has sections or subheadings, right?

Correct.

Okay, so what are some of those?

On our personal Vivid Vision, it would be things like friends, family, fitness, my financial goals, my faith or spirituality, how I want to be as a spouse, how I want to be as a partner, how I want to be as a lover, How I want to be as a person, showing up in just the area that I live in, you know, a person day to day, interacting with others, how I want to take care of myself, and, you know, what are some of my daily habits. And it's thinking about maybe three or four bullet points for each of those areas. When you kind of craft all of those bullet points in rough, you can hand it to a writer and make them polish it. If I was doing one for business, I always get my rough version done and then I send it to a writer and they make it pop off the page.

Right, right. Good stuff. Good stuff. So you actually send it to a wr.

Yes. Right now I have one being drafted for the COO alliance we're actually launching in 30 cities in the next three years. And you're actually the first person I've told that we're doing this. But we're launching city forums for the COO alliance, and I've crafted the vivid vision for that. And it's about two and a half to three pages right now without the design elements. And I just sent it off to a professional copywriter, and they're taking my second draft of it, which was a good, solid draft. I had a couple of my employees wordsmith it with me and make sure that it looked good. But now this writer is going to make it pop off the page, and when you read it, it's just going to feel a lot more exciting because I'm not a writer, I can get the rough ideas down, but a writer can really polish it.

Sure, sure. These writers that do this are going to become just incredible experts at this. Just looking at all these vivid visions over and over again.

I've got a couple of them that are freelance writers who I send a lot of different CEOs vivid visions to. So, yeah, they're doing a lot of work for a lot of different companies.

That's fantastic. Cameron, There are two school schools of thought, I guess, on this. You know, one is that, like with just goals, they'll say, with goals, you know, don't share your goals with everybody because they're gonna talk you down. They're gonna be skeptics and say you can't do it. You know, if that's your friends, you probably have the wrong set of friends. But. But, you know, people do that, even successful people do that to each other. You know, it's sort of a kind of an ugly part of human nature must be programmed in us for some reason. I guess maybe it's envy or survival or I Don't know. But some say declare it publicly. Because then, you know, by declaring it publicly, you sort of make yourself accountable. It holds you more accountable. What should one do with this vivid vision statement? Should it be a publicly declared document? Should we all go out and post ours on Facebook?

Absolutely. And I literally just posted my vivid vision for the COO alliance today on Facebook.

Okay, I'm gonna go look at your Facebook page right now.

It was probably posted within the last 90 minutes on Facebook publicly. It was a Dropbox version of it. And I'm completely fine with the world seeing it. I'm completely fine with some people potentially deciding that I'm wrong and challenging me. Awesome. Because that will just toughen me up. It'll make me see some of the potential pitfalls. So I work really hard at protecting my confidence and surrounding myself with people that can help me do it. I've actually invested pretty substantially in my own growth. I'm a member of five different mastermind groups that I pay to be involved in every year. So those groups will help me grow my skill set and my confidence. And then the second part is, the more people that I share it with, they end up conspiring to help make it come true. They end up seeing one sentence and they're like, oh, man, I can introduce you to one person who can make that sentence come true. So the more people I share it with, the faster it happens, right?

Yeah, that's an excellent point. You can enlist introductions and resources by sharing it. So very, very good point there.

Yeah. So I share it with my accountant, my lawyers, my business partners, business employees, potential employees. Everybody gets to see this. So now the more people that see it, the more kind of everyone's rallying behind me. Or at least they're clear on where we're going.

Sure, yeah. Very good point. Excellent, excellent point. What else do you want people to know about this process or the statement itself?

The vivid vision concept itself feels really stupid when you roll it out because nobody knows what the heck it is. And they're only used to the vision statement. They're only used to that one sentence. They know that doesn't work, but they've never heard of this four page document. So it's really important to explain to them, look, this is what our company looks and feels like three years from now. Not quite sure how we're going to get there yet, but I know this is what it looks like. And just keep reminding them that this is three years out, because they're going to keep pointing to what your company Looks like today it takes three or four months before the traction starts to hit and they start seeing some parts of it start to kind of unfold. So it's going to feel pretty stupid rolling it out in the initial stages.

Why three years? Why'd you pick three, not five?

It tends to give enough tension. If you go five years out, it's so far out there that people go, oh, we got a long time, or it's too far out or there's no urgency behind it. And if it's only one year out, it's too close to what today looks like. So three just tended to be that point where there's enough tension and pull and excitement and reality at the same time.

Yeah. Good stuff. Okay, you know, I want to ask you if there's anything else you want to cover on the Vivid Vision, but maybe switch gears a little bit and talk about. I love some of your meeting techniques. You know, when. When we had big offices, you know, in my companies, we used to do the huddle every morning at like 10am and you just have a lot of really good stuff for operations and culture and things like that. But, you know, anything else to wrap this up? This part. You've got the book coming out in January, I believe.

Yeah. And if anyone wants some samples of the Vivid Vision, they can either see some samples in either Double Double or the Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs. Or if they send an email to vividvisionameronherald.com we can send them some examples and some worksheets to craft their own as well.

Fantastic. Vivid visionameronherald.com yeah, okay. Fantastic. Good stuff. Talk a little bit about Double Double and the Meeting Suck Book, which has been just amazingly popular.

Yeah. It's funny, one of my clients around two years ago, I've coached them for four years now. Really big, successful company. They've gone from 60 employees to. To 700 in four years. They just raised $250 million from Warburg Pincus. They were complaining about meetings, and they were talking about how their employees hate meetings and all these meetings suck. And I'm like, I don't think so. Meetings are actually amazing if you know how to run them. And I said, have you ever trained all of your executives on how to run and lead meetings? And they said, no. I said, have you ever trained all your employees on how to attend and participate in meetings? They said, no. I said, well, that's the problem. The problem is that meetings suck. The problem is we suck at running them. If none of our employees have had any training it's like going to sending your 10 year old kid off to little league baseball for the first time without showing them how to hold a bat or catch a ball or throw a ball. The kid would come home on the first day going, you know, baseball sucks. Well, no, baseball is fun if you know how to play it. But yeah, it sucks if you don't know how to catch a ball. So I crafted the book as a way to teach all the employees at all the companies how to finally understand how to attend meetings, participate. That's kind of a third of the book is how to attend and participate. A third of the book is how to lead and set up and run meetings. And then a third of the book is what meetings you need to run to build a highly successful company. And that works even if you're a sole proprietorship. If you're a single person company, you still need these same meeting rhythms to grow.

What are those meetings that you need to hold? I mean, I just think of the huddle. That's all I've really heard you talk about before. What are the other ones?

Let's kind of begin with the end in mind. You go out for the annual plan, so you need your annual planning meeting where you set your core goals for the year. And those are your employee net promoter score, your customer net promoter score, your profit target and your revenue goal for the year. And you'll notice I actually did them in that order on purpose. I go with the employee goal first. So once we know what our four goals are for the year, then we can come up with the core 10 projects that we're going to use to make those goals happen over the next 12 months. So again, I've already set my core goals and my 10 projects for 2018 for my company and I did it by myself. But I literally took some time out of my week and sat down for half a day and just mind mapped and planned and thought about the core projects and what I needed to do to grow. Every quarter you also have a quarterly planning meeting where you get off site for half a day and you press reset on the plan and you look at the core projects again. You make sure you're seeing how you're doing against your core goals and you set any new objectives you need to kind of either catch up or stay ahead. Then you get a little bit of skill development during that period of time as well. So that's why I'm in all these masterminds is continually working on my skill set. I believe in that whole Ray KROC concept of if you're green, you're growing and when you're ripe, you're rotting.

Yeah, I love that quote. I've repeated it all.

So true. So I have that kind of built in. And then monthly we have our financial review. So you look at your financials every month and you have a meeting to look at your P and L, your balance sheet and your projections and your cash flow. And whether that's you meeting with your accountant or bookkeeper or you meeting with your team to discuss it, it's critical strategy. Just having a monthly strategic planning meeting to think about. Sorry, strategic thinking meeting, not planning. It's literally thinking about the future a year out, what's coming, what's coming down the pipe, where might be going, what competition might we be facing. And just taking time, time to think strategically. And then we go down to the weekly pulse, which is your leadership team, your war meeting, your weekly action review where the leadership team reviews their updates with each other. Each person says their five minute updates, what's going well, what's not going well, what I'm working on and where I'm stuck. You then spend about 30% of the meeting reviewing the dashboard or your KPIs together. And then the last 30% of the meeting you spend helping people get unstuck from the areas that they were struggling with. And then you have your weekly coaching meeting. So you are coaching your direct reports and they're coaching their direct reports. That's a critical part that most companies miss is our job is to grow people. The CEO's job is to grow more people. And the more we can grow and get off our plate, the faster our company grows. So it's that regular pulse in our meeting rhythm calendar. And then as you pointed out, the daily huddle, and that's the all company stand up meeting that happens at 10:55 until 11:00 clock for seven minutes a day where you review the good news and the key numbers and the business area does their updates and you look at any missing systems or frustrations. And I outline all of those meetings in the book meeting sock as well.

Right, right. I'm curious any. I'm sure in the book you have guidelines as to length of these meetings, but anything you want to share there, I mean the huddle is short and quick and that's great, but are, I mean, I assume some of those other meetings are a lot longer, right?

Yeah. Well, I actually book all the meetings for half the time we first think about booking them for. So if we say let's get together for a day, we book it for half a day and then we just follow the right rhythms to make sure that we get it done in less time. We control the chatter. We have a moderator, a timekeeper in our parking lot. We make sure that we actually stick to the agenda and then we get offline to have a separate meeting and meetings. People might be worried about meetings, but the reason you're worried is because your meetings suck. If you knew how to run them, if you were following the right systems, you would have more meetings because you would actually a meeting is anytime two people are either on a phone, over a video call, or in person. So you need to know how to do these things because your people are doing them between one and two hours a day. Most companies, if they took their payroll and said, what's my payroll cost for the entire year? That number, 25% of it is probably being wasted by people who don't know how to attend or participate or run meetings. So that's why everyone's buying a copy of the book for everybody to read is they realize how much money is at stake.

Yeah, a lot of money at stake, definitely. Cameron, give out your web I know you mentioned the Vivid Vision email that is a tongue twister, but give out your website in general and any Twitter link or anything else you want to share.

The website is CameronHerold.com and it's H E R O L D. And then all three of the books, Double Double Meetings Suck and the Miracle Morning for Entrepreneurs are all available on Amazon, Audible and itunes. And then also my speaking events. If anyone wants to watch copies of me speaking, those are all available off of of the CameronHerald.com website at the Tools page as well.

Excellent. Cameron Herald, thanks for joining us.

You're welcome. Thanks very much, Jason. Appreciate you having me.

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