1352: Billions at Play: The Future Of African Energy by NJ Ayuk

Those who have understood that the paradigm has changed and that perhaps we need to do something that's counterintuitive, like being in debt, which obviously we have all been taught is a horrible thing. You know, maybe it's those few early people who understand that and who witness that. So perhaps the people who are more sensitive to risk or more risk averse or, I don't know, the perfectionists, but the canary in the coal mine if you want. And this is perhaps what you are and what you have been. I am surprised, Jason, right now that basically what we are saying is not yet more mainstream. I'm not saying that this should be or that this should already be what everybody's thinking, but that so few people are thinking that, or at least that so few people are vocal about it. So perhaps it's just a well kept secret and those who know it don't want to talk about it. But I'm very surprised because this is so much against the mainstream of what you're reading in the paper.

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Welcome to episode 1352. 1352. And today you are in for a treat. Great interview I had with our guest today, NJ Ayuk. And we are going to talk about. Well, let me just put this in context for you. Well, in my context, maybe it's not everybody else's context, but back in the early 70s, our former president Richard Nixon took a very historic trip to China. And Nixon also in 1971, not too far before his trip to China. I believe I could have these dates a little mixed up, but I remember thinking about it before and I remember thinking he went to China right after he closed the gold window, meaning he took the US Dollar off the gold standard. That was its last vestige of a tie to gold where it was not redeemable for gold. After that, why does this matter?

Why does it matter?

Well, this just came out of my own head. Maybe it's my little conspiracy theory. I don't know, maybe I'm wearing a tinfoil hat. I think there's a strong possibility these two events are connected. So we go off the gold standard, the government can inflate, inflate, inflate. And then Nixon takes this historic trip to China to open up relations with the communist China. Right. Amazing. Like, that was an unbelievable thing. It's, it's kind of like Donald Trump going to meet with Kim Jong Un.

The dictator of North Korea. Right?

It's pretty amazing. And I'm thinking, well, the sitting president at the time is thinking, okay, we're untethered from the gold standard anymore nowadays, thanks to his own actions. And we have now got the ability to spend, spend, spend. And we. When you spend, you create what, inflation? Yes, inflation. So we've got to go look for some cheap manufacturing labor. So let's go open up relations with China. And shortly after that we saw this sort of bifurcated economy in China where the policy was, let's engage in capitalism in terms of trade and our companies, but will also have communism at the same time. So they have this kind of parallel economy. It's a very odd thing. And nowadays it's much more capitalistic than it was then, obviously.

Obviously.

So I say that Nixon went to China to open up a cheap labor market. Okay, now what does that have to do with our guest today? Well, this guy is awesome. NJ Ayuk. He talks a lot about Africa. And I wonder, I hypothesize as to whether or not, you know, since we see Chinese wages going up, Chinese regulation going up, a maturity of industry in China that has been happening for, you know, a few decades now, obviously, maybe we need to look for the next low cost labor market. Right? Well, we've got this giant African continent that is very fragmented compared to its land mass, doesn't have much in the way of coastline. And of course that means trade has been inhibited. And so there's all kinds of stuff going on there. You know, it's a very complicated continent and a very tribal continent and very fragmented where, you know, Swahili is the lingua franca. But there's just so many languages and cultures and countries and many of them landlocked. And that's very significant for trade and.

Just a lot of things.

We're going to discuss that today. But is Africa now we are seeing some real bright spots in Africa, some real growth and some real success is that the next low cost labor market.

Is that the next workshop of the.

World, the way China has been as it's getting more expensive and there's obviously.

This little thing called the trade. No, not war.

The trade negotiation. The trade negotiation. War is the wrong word. It's just a negotiation. Folks, relax, relax. Okay, without further ado, let's go to our guest and let's talk to nj. He's got some great insights for you and I think you'll like this. In the macroeconomic picture.

It'S my pleasure to welcome NJ Ayuk. He is the Executive Chairman of the African Energy Chamber of Commerce and CEO and Managing Partner of Centurion Law Group. They are a Pan African corporate law conglomerate. He's been active in structuring, negotiating and implementing entrepreneurial projects in Sub Saharan Africa with extensive experience in advising both international and local companies and governments. He's one of Africa's most prolific energy dealmakers and investors. He is the author of the number one best selling book on African billions at the Future of African Energy and doing deals. Nj, welcome.

How are you doing?

I'm doing really good. Thank you for having me.

Well, the pleasure is all mine. So you are in Johannesburg, right?

I am in Johannesburg, South Africa.

Fantastic. Well, I've been to Johannesburg before. I was there about, I don't know, 15 years ago. Really love traveling around South Africa. Fascinating place.

You need to come back. You need to come back.

I would love to. It is about the world's longest flight from where I am. So, you know, it's not on my list right now, but I'll get there.

Are you in Atlanta?

I'm in Palm Beach, Florida. So it's not quite as long as what I was in Palm Beach, California.

So if you go to Atlanta, there's a direct flight with Delta Airlines directly to Johannesburg.

Oh, fantastic. That's, that's good to know. Good to know what is going on in Africa. And we're not just talking about South Africa today, right? We're talking about the entire continent, right?

Yes.

Okay.

Yes, that's right.

Tell us about. I mean, obviously the continent has struggled in so many ways. There are so many languages, it's very hard to put it together. There's a lot of tribalism, a lot of issues, you know, a lot of complexity. Of course, what's going on in Africa? Where are the bright spots? Where are the difficult spots? You know, what are the sectors that are going to lead to growth? You know, just give us a big macro overview if you would.

Well, you know, the continent has had its challenges and it still does, as you rightly put it, but there is still some hope. And I think that's something very American which we draw out of America today. In Africa, you look at in Senegal, in the western part of Africa, you see there is a lot of gas fines by a US company called Cosmos Energy. You go around East Africa, you get Total and the Chinese discovering oil and natural resources. But just in Uganda, but just north of that you got South Sudan, which is already becoming sort of a failed state, even though it has great prospects. And you look in South Africa, which nobody ever thought you would find any kind of gas. You found 1 billion barrels of gas in South Africa. Then you look at Mozambique. The US companies have put in $50 billion to have an FID in Mozambique that will be doing about seven FIM. LNG trains. Equatorial guinea, you're still seeing a lot of things, but also you still see a lot of issues which we're still dealing with. Governance, what it is, corruption in Nigeria or mismanagement of resources in Cameroon. Are you looking at different places where we've not really done more to step up and play the role of women in the energy sector or even within business or in boardrooms, but there is a lot of hope. And I think that hope comes from a very young population that is under 30. 70% of the African population is under 30. So you're going to see there is. So this new generation is demanding more than the older generation are and they're more connected, they're more wired and they really thinking a lot more about the future and what it's going to mean for them. So yes, there is a lot of challenges, but there's a lot of opportunities and people really want to take advantage of.

You know what's interesting, you mentioned being wired and actually maybe you should have said being wireless. Because what's fascinating about Africa is even though it's a more primitive region, interestingly, some of their systems are more modern than they are in first world wealthy countries like the US etc. Because they skipped a generation when it came to technology. They just skipped right to more modern payment systems, more modern telcom. That's kind of a counterintuitive thing, isn't it?

And that is the advantage of Africa today. You know, a good friend of mine once told me, if you want to create an app today, go to Africa or look to Africa, because you're going to create apps of the future. You're going to create apps that solve problems, you're going to create apps that find solutions and you'll be having more futuristic approach. And you're right. You know, I was in Germany talking to the Germans and they were struggling with the payment system. And I had a German bank come talk to me and say, what's going on? I said, just go to Kenya. Yeah, they have, within Pesa. Yeah, they have one of the world class payment systems out there. And the Germans were looking at me and saying, huh, you know, like that is the beauty of what we still have in Africa, that we are leapfrogging to the future. But that also has to come with other sectors and other parts of with energy. That's why when you look at the energy sector, we're talking about energy transition, renewables, you in America, you guys talk about green New deal, I don't really know what kind of deal is there, but. And all this stuff and you start saying, well, we must not be scared of these changes. We have to embrace them, but move forward and lead. Because if we can lead, we can be competitive and that's what we have to look at. You know, I always say there's nothing wrong with being new. America is the newest democracy, the newest nation, but look at where it is today. It's the leader of the free world. So be happy to be new because you can still lead being new.

Yeah, it's, it's just so fascinating to me that in the US our payment systems honestly are terrible. You look at M. Pesa and it is dramatically better than anything we have in the U.S. i mean, maybe Apple way better, maybe Apple Pay is almost as good. But you know, that largely came out of not just the fact that you didn't have the landline communication infrastructure that we do. Your cell phone industry didn't start as early as ours, so you just leapfrogged right to the better technologies, but also the fact that the vast majority of the continent is unbanked. And in the US all of our financial system is built around the idea of bankruptcy banks. There's really a different paradigm for that, isn't there? Tell us about that. I mean, you know, so many of our listeners are interested in finance and real estate investing. And I want to ask you about property rights too, and real estate a little bit specifically. But talk to us about the way America is sort of banking centric, if you will. And in Africa, your systems aren't really built around the concept of banking, are they?

No, it's not built around the country of banking because we have a tradition of doing things which it doesn't rely on. You know, people could talk about government, stronger government and everything. People are giving up on government in Africa. You know, they give up on. Because some. Most of the governments are either the killer ships or they're not working. So they give up on government. Government. So they found ways to do it.

Which in a way is good.

Like it's very good, people.

Very good.

I love it.

Want to go back to communism? They're crazy. You know, they wanted to know.

Those ones are crazy. Those ones. I tell you something. I lived in America. I watched Ronald Reagan talk about a shining city on the hill. I watch America transform itself. I watch a country that was something which you would call the beacon of hope. And I love that. And we love that. It made us feel that if these guys can do it by believing, by getting up every day and doing what is right. I wrote an article last week that got criticized a lot for it when I was in Germany. And I told them in the speech, I said, stop giving us aid, it is killing us. And they almost ran me out of town. But that's what America taught me. Bring yourself together, step it up, don't mismatch towards communism. It's killing. I think it's un American. But I think because we started believing in Africa that by the last decade that government is not the answer. Government is the problem.

We develop these payment systems that are going very well around. We could wire money back around each other and it works very well. We are developing a lot of new technologies that are solving our problems in small ways. And with the right kind of funding, the right kind of investment is just going to spike and it's going to get a big boom because we know we don't trust our government. There is a huge distrust for government because when people look at government, they just see problems. You don't see solution. They see an old archaic. They see people, and some of them very bright people with PhDs. But then these young people in the continent saying, we don't need your PhDs, we need PhD.

I love that, by the way, to do things.

And so they're running away from that. And that's why they embracing, embracing new things. We have to be very careful. When you look at investing the continent, people are creating new banks, online banks. They're creating online banks and it is working very well and it's driving and creating power sharing things where people are having power and they are paying power bills all around. So we have an American company working in Nigeria and they've realized that they could capture Gaza as being fled they could still get. Make a lot of money by not necessarily having themselves established office everywhere. And they brought American technology, captures gas, transformed that into power. And they are all getting paid easily through wire transfers, through online banking. Everything is so fast. It's so fast that grandmothers, grandmothers are doing this and they are not literate. They know how to use, to use this. So I think we have a chance where we've lived up to the future. We have a lot of issues with governance. We have to build a lot of capacity. And I think this is where America really comes in, because America always knows how to be that comeback kid, and America knows how to be futuristic. And I think that's why the Americans are very popular. But sometimes the Americans have also seen a big retreat in the continent, which bothers a lot of people. You know, I mean, you get in the room. You know, Americans, when you see them, they're loud, they're boisterous, and sometimes they're fat and they're funny. And we love that. We love that because they have been something really good to us.

Talk to us about private property rights. I think our politics probably jive pretty well, you and I, I'm guessing, just by what you said a moment ago, but no society. And when you talk about Africa, you have to talk about the continent. You can't talk about specific countries really, in the, in the same way. We just, you know, we're just looking at a very macro level here. So you've got to have private property rights. Otherwise nobody will be incentivized to earn and save and invest if they're always in fear that it can be taken away.

Right. How does that work in Africa?

And specifically real estate, if you would.

We have made a lot of progress. I've always believed free market enterprise, free market capitalism is still the best product to prosperity. Limited government, rule of law, property rights. And I emphasize property rights because if you don't own something, you know, I was in America when everybody criticized George Walker Bush. I love him a lot. He has been really, he was really good for Africa. He talked something which I listened to, and it spoke to my heart. It talked about an ownership society. George Bustag, when he looked at it, he was speaking in the majority black community and he said, I want you to own something, because when you own something, you create wealth and you pass it through generations. We are not going to be able to do that if we don't implement those things. A lot of my friends will look at it and say, well, you know, you, you're Talking that right wing talk. But no, it's working. In Africa, we inherit. You have to understand that we inherited systems that was given to us by a lot of socialist, communist European countries in the 50s and the 60s. And they implemented those laws where the state owned everything, the state owned land, the state owned this. And so communities right now saying, no, let's go back to what was fundamentally in African society where communities own land and families and people own land and property. Because when you do that, that transforms into building strong people. There is pride in work. And not just work, there is dignity in work. Because, you know, in our community, if you don't work your own land, your own property, then you feel like you left behind. And that has changed in a lot of places. In the oil and gas sector, I do a lot of work. We still have a problem because the state still owns everything. We need to move away from that. That's why you have a lot of millionaires and billionaires in America because they own land. They did agriculture, they did real estate, they did oil and gas in their land, they found their land. And in my generation, we learned a lot of that in America. Sitting in an American class and they say, you know, if you find something, gold, diamonds, raw materials in your own land, it is yours, it is yours, you can trade it, you can sell it. And I think that is the bedrock of any strong society. And some African countries have moved a lot further on that. Like, I mean, you'll be surprised. Nigeria is doing a lot more trying to embed communities on that. They're not moving as fast as they should. Senegal is getting more open on that. But I think we need to move faster because the more we move, we are really empowering people to shape their own future. And I think when people can shape their own future and determine that, then you don't have a big, strong tyrant government that is going to come and really hold them back every day. And I think that is what the future, that's what truth is, true freedom mean. That's what true individual liberty means. And that is what we feel that in tomorrow's Africa, it has to be there. It is moving and it is changing because people don't have time for leadership that wants to on the alliance. They will push you out. And these young people, they are hungry. And I think too, that's why you see real estate happening around the continent. Because guys are building little things everywhere and they're selling and they seen that, they say, wow, I could build this, I could sell this, I could farm this. I could own this. And I don't have to wait on government to cut me a check. I don't have to wait on government or some bureaucrat to come out there with their fat belly to say, I got. I own you all. I am my own man. And I think that spirit drives people up. And that's why for me, I'm so happy to be part of this movement in Africa, being part of this generation, because I'm seeing what my parents never saw, you know, my. What my parents never saw. It. It is happening as fast as we can. I tell you, these young people under 30, they are going to leapfrog the future so fast. And before these old octogenarians get up one day, it will be a different continent.

Yeah, that's fantastic. That's. That's really good to hear, that optimism. And it's interesting that it's really better in many ways that people don't trust the governments there because then they just decide, look, I'm going to make my own way in the world. We're going to develop our own technologies. We're not going to depend on anybody else. We're just going to go make things happen. And that's really great to hear. So overall, you sound very optimistic about the continent and its future. Is that a fair statement?

It is a fair statement. I mean, I wrote the book Billions at play. If you look at it, the continent right now, 920 million people. In about 10 years, it will be more than a billion people. So if you look at a population of a billion under 30, just imagine, take look at, for example, the power sector. 650 million people today do not have any kind of electricity. So if I'm an American businessman, if I'm a young man in America and I'm looking at providing power, electricity and everything, don't just sit out there and insult your president, the United States, or insult everybody around. Get out there and do stuff. That is what you do. You use that grit, that American ingenuity. I write a lot about what American ingenuity can mean for places like this. You go out there, you say, I'm American, my country, you know, you say always in my country. T's of the sweet line of liberties. That sweet line of liberty doesn't work until you can create something. And you can go out there and say, I will use what is American, develop something, make a lot of money for the local communities and America and really develop that. So that gives me hope because I won't be talking to you today without the power of America that looked at me and gave me a shot and said if you work hard, if you play by the rules, if you go to class, don't skip class. And when I made a mistake, they beat me up. And you do all of that and you will get a fine law degree and a business degree and you can go right back and improve communities. If I can do it, anybody can do it. And that's what gives me hope about Africa and give me hope about the future.

That's fantastic. That's fantastic. Nj, this has been great talking. I love hearing your enthusiasm about all of this stuff. Before you go, I just want to touch on some of the things in your book. Maybe just a couple of call outs from the table of contents. You talk about job creation and making your own multiplier effect. The recipe for economic diversification.

Industrialization.

Technological solutions for oil and gas. Obviously this continent has tremendous natural resources. You talk about empowering women and so forth. And the book is interestingly entitled Billions at Play. I would certainly say there are trillions at play.

I love trillions.

Maybe that was too big a word for it, but it is trillions in terms of.

I don't have the guts of Trump. If I was Trump, I'd probably call it trillions of play. But I think mama taught me humility. I stay at billions.

There you go. Fantastic. Nj, give out your website and tell people where they can find out more.

You could go to njiuk.com and you can find a lot more about what we do in our book. And if any of your viewers ever want to come to African have to be a don't hesitate to call us. Just tell us, you, you, you are a listener to your show and we will definitely take them on because I believe what you guys are doing, it's really, really important for us building that strong relationship that benefits both sides. And thank you America for doing I'm a proud of America for doing this to me and your country gave me everything. I wouldn't be anything I am today without that majestic country that, you know, patriotic. Don't believe those who tell you that you guys are not the best, trust me, they just lying. And everybody that tries to knock down your country some socialist or communist behavior, they need, they need to get back and go. Maybe we need to send them back to school and they need to listen to your show more. Maybe they get some education.

Yeah, yeah. Well I agree, I agree with you definitely and thank you for that. So it's NJ Ayuk. And that's a yuk the book is on Amazon and all the usual places. It looks great. Again, thank you for joining us today. Really great having you on the show. Nj.

Thank you so much and God bless you.

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