1370: Million Dollar Homes & Tribe of Millionaires by Pat Hiban

Thanks for your support, Jason. I appreciate yours and Carrie's support and your whole network. It's really been very beneficial to me and a whole lot of others. I encourage everyone to use your resources that you have. But thank. Thanks Jason.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multi, multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome listeners from 189 countries worldwide. And this is episode 1370. 1370, that means it is a 10th episode show where we talk about a topic of general interest. But hey, since this is a financial show, this is a financial topic also. But it's a little bit, you know, it's not exactly about real estate investing per se, although it's with a good real estate buddy of mine, Pat Hyban, who will be here with us in a moment. He is an investor and a broker and I've known him for quite a few years and he's a great guy. So we'll be with him in just a moment. But we have listeners in 189 countries and guess what? There are now 218 cities in the US of A. Where the typical, the typical typical, whatever that means. Home cost at least a million bucks. Yes. A million bucks. Ain't what it used to be. Ain't what it used to be. You know, it's really interesting. I'm always saying go watch old movies and TV shows. And not only that, I saw an interesting movie on the plane the other night. You maybe seen it. It's called Water for Elephants. I thought it was a really good movie. I hadn't seen it when it was out in theaters, so I watched it on the airplane. You know, it was set in like 1932, I want to say, or something like that. Yeah, could be off a couple years, but it was set back then. And then last night I watched another movie on my iPad. I, I don't even know why I own a tv, honestly. Just Use the iPad for most of this stuff. You know, it's. It's great. The resolution's better. It's so portable. Take it anywhere with you. It's great. And that movie was called Topaz. I just think Alfred Hitchcock was one of the great directors. It was a Hitchcock movie. And his cinematography and, I don't know, just his whole. Whole thing was great. But Stanley Kubrick is my favorite. Only the good die young, I tell you. Too bad we lost Stanley Kubrick and John Denver and so many other greats over the years because really talented folks. Anyway, what was I. Where was I going with that? Oh, yeah. When I'm watching old movies and old TV shows, you know, being the economics geek that I am, I many times pull out an inflation calculator. Because when they talk about an amount of money. For example, I watched that movie, Marnie, another Hitchcock movie, a few nights back. I know you're thinking, jason, you have way too much time on your hands. Trust me, I do not. But everybody needs to unwind a little bit, folks, and movies are a good escape. Anyway, that movie, Marnie, Alfred Hitchcock movie about this sick, sick girl who was a. She was a thief. And she was talking about the amount of money she had stolen. And I look at when the movie was made or when the movie was set, in what time was it set? And then I go back and put that amount of money into the inflation calculator. It said, Marnie stole, you know, $9,000. I did the inflation calculator. And that was. I don't remember, because she talked about a couple of amounts, and that was like $75,000 today. And that's only by the official stats. And then watching Water for Elephants, they were talking about how much these people in the circus get paid. And I put it into the inflation calculator. It's so enlightening to see the relative perspective. And I think back to my early career in the real estate business and my sort of breakout year, if you will, that I really killed it. I made $390,000 when I was 24 years old. That was pretty darn good for that age. And I know $390,000 ain't what it used to be. I get it. But in today's dollars, that's like $800,000. So, hey, I was a pretty rich kid at a young age there, huh? Not bad. Not bad. So a million dollars ain't what it used to be. Yes. 218 cities now. The typical home in the US will cost you a million bucks. And this Housing Wire article by Julia Falcon talks about how luxury real estate had a bumpy year last year. And we all know that. And I predicted that a couple of years before it happened. You know, that wasn't exactly any genius prediction. I don't want to take credit for like, you know, that was some amazing thing. But hey, to some people it was because many people get so deluded with thinking those prices will just keep, keep going up and up and up and up and up forever. The sun will never shop, stop shining, but it does. And what goes up must come down. And those cyclical markets always, always get their comeuppance. They do. And so, yeah, it was a pretty tough year for luxury real estate last year. That has different definitions, by the way. A lot of people say it's, you know, in most markets that's over $700,000. We're not talking 7 million or mega mansions at 25 or $70 million or now over $100 million for a mega mansion. In many cases it's absolutely crazy. But it's amazing when the typical home is over a million dollars. That is absolutely, absolutely crazy. So, you know, to no surprise, more than half of the million dollar cities are in places like San Francisco, New York, Louisiana, my hometown, and those metro areas, so that's no surprise. But also 10 cities with typical home values over a million dollars. You know, Boston, San Jose, Miami, those aren't very surprising. But what is surprising is some of the others. You know, Sierra Madre, Forest Hills, Tennessee. Sierra Madre's in California, by the way. The Socialist Republic of California, my former home with over 1200 new laws as of January 1st. The productive people flee oppression. Come to beautiful sunny Florida, folks. It is paradise here. Today I took the dog for a walk at lunch. It is so gorgeous out there. I can't even believe what am I doing in here. Talking to you inside. It is absolutely beautiful. The air is beautiful, the sun is great, the sky is blue and the taxes are zero. The state taxes. The taxes are zero, yes. They're not 14%. Okay, so imagine how much money you would save living in Florida. Plus the cost of living is just lower in general. Come on over and join me. Be great to have some of our refugee friends joining us in. In Florida or one of the other more business friendly states and landlord friendly states too. You know, it's funny that all the business friendly states seem to be more landlord friendly at the same time. It's just a thing. I guess so. Other surprising places, okay, McLean, Virginia, that's probably not that much of a surprise with the latest news there that occurred last year. How about Moose, Wyoming? Yeah, that one might be a little surprising. Telluride, Colorado, that one doesn't surprise me too much. Telluride is gorgeous. It's pretty interesting. San Quentin, California saw the typical home fall below $1 million. Lexington Hills, California, San Quentin, you know, that's where the famous prison is. When they say you're going to San Quentin, nobody thinks of living there. You know, they think of Hotel Gray Bar. Hotel Gray Bar. So it's pretty amazing, you know, income property, the most historically proven asset class in the world. If you follow my refi till you die plan. If you don't know what that is, it's the most tax efficient way to extract wealth from your income property portfolio. Go to jasonartman.com, use the search bar there and type refi till ya sort, you know, slang. Till you die. Refi till you die. Find out more about it. Listen to some of the podcast episodes on that topic. Because by the rule of 72s, your real estate portfolio will have $1 million homes in it as a normal course of events in the not too terribly distant future before you pay off your loans. Some of those houses will be million dollar houses. So yes, it is pretty amazing. All right, go to jason hartman.com for more on that to check properties. And by the way, you, you're not going to see a ton of properties on there. You got to be working with an investment counselor if you want to get some good properties. And you can of course reach out to them through Jason hartman.com or call us on the good old fashioned telephone, the Alexander Graham Bell. Yes, we actually have phones. We answer them. Our investment counselors will be happy to talk to you. They'll be happy to do a free portfolio makeover and help you figure out the highest and best use for your income property portfolio. Of course, reach them through the website or by calling 1-800-HARTMAN 1-800-HARTMAN and let's get to our 10th episode show with Pat Hyban. It's my pleasure to welcome a returning guest back to the show and that is my friend Pat. Hi Ban. Pat is a podcaster and an author and he runs a mastermind group. His new book is entitled Tribe of Millionaires. Pat, welcome back.

Thanks, Jason. Great to be here.

It's good to have you on. Where are you located today?

I'm in Folly Beach, South Carolina, which is a small island on the ocean right outside of Charleston.

Fantastic. And that's where you live about half. You have two homes now, right?

Yes, I got two homes. One in Maryland where I grew up, and one here. I'm about to, I'm about eight months here and I'm about four months there, maybe three months there and then a month abroad or so.

Good stuff. Before we jump into your new book, Tribe of Millionaires, which I firmly believe in the concept, so I can't wait to talk about that. You've got a long history in the real estate business, training real estate agents. Just thought I'd kind of talk to you at first in general about the industry, you know, about the economy, the market, you know, what you kind of see going on.

Well, it's interesting, you know, part of me is regretful and part of me is excited about, you know, the last decade, let's say, of real estate. I was in real estate sales, Jason, you know, for 30 some years and full time as an agent. In 2011, I pretty much got out of the business. And at that time, when I got out in 2011, I thought to myself, you know, this thing's a dog. I've ran it as far as it's going to go and blah, blah, blah, and lo and behold, all the people that stuck around are making millions and millions of dollars and selling houses and making real estate commissions. Now, of course, I continued to invest, so I, I was able to ride the wave through investments.

Right.

It's not like I'm that bitter, but at the same time it's, it's fascinating what has happened and I think that it's almost too good, it seems to me.

Yeah.

The real estate agents that are coming into the market now, there's, you're starting to see them from all types of people. Anybody can get their license as always. And you're starting to see, you know, 18 year old kids and bartenders and.

All kinds of pizza delivery. Pizza delivery people. Yeah, I know it's great being a little older because you really develop some real perspective that interestingly can't really be communicated that well. You just. Some things in life, well, many things in life, you just got to kind of be there and experience it. But I've certainly seen that cycle come and go many, many times over the years. And I know you have too. Whenever you have a low barrier to entry business like real estate, it's pretty easy to get a license anywhere. You know, you see the people come and go with the tide of the economy. You know, I'd say for investors, one of the things you really have to watch out for is these Kind of fly by night operators that are here today, gone tomorrow, they're just here to skim the cream off the top of a great economy and a great market and you know, they'll be gone in the next cycle. You want to deal with people who are really building a business and really committed to it because they've got something to lose, Right. You know, rather than the guy who's just doing a transactional type of business versus a kind of has a long term vision for their career. Right?

Yeah, no, it's fascinating. I mean, I probably, and I'm not exaggerating by this, I probably get one email a week from a real estate multifamily. Almost all are multifamily syndicator who, when I look them up, have only been syndicating, let's say for two years and just jump, right? You know, never even bought rental property, never even bought a single house and go right to syndicating multimillion dollar places. And I turn them down for my show because my show is more about real estate agents and real estate sales. But at the same time, I wouldn't have them on anyways because I don't trust them in that, you know, unless they've been doing it for 10 years, going to your point, you know, they're not in it for the long haul, they're just in it to get the froth off the top, like you said.

Right, right. Skimming the cream. Exactly. So I mean, to be fair, everybody's got to start some. We were all new at one point. Right. But the thing is, if you haven't experienced a cycle in the economy and your entire career has been on an upswing, you know, say you got into the business in 2009, your whole career has been nothing but an upswing and you just really have no concept of how the dynamics of a marketplace change. When you know, you can hear it, you can study it, but there's nothing like being there because there's just a million little nuances that you just don't know.

It's interesting. With gobundance, I get to meet a ton of people and I see a lot of young people going all in, like pushing all their chips on the table, last 12, 18 months or so. And I sit back as a 53 year old and I looked at myself and I say, holy shit, you know, he's pushing it all in. I don't think he should be doing that. But then I tell myself, oh, Pat, you're just jealous because you might be missing out on it. Maybe he knows something that you don't know, and he's going to be richer than you in five years, and he's 20 years your junior. So how much do you think is that? How much do you think is guys like us really jealous?

There's a little bit of that, no question. Because you look at people getting into whatever part. I mean, real estate is a giant industry, so we're talking about syndicators of deals out there promoting their securities, people running funds or people just doing flips and selling the flips or wholesaling or. Or brokering and just being an agent or a broker. I mean, there's a million different parts of the business, right? And you look at these people coming in and they have no baggage. They don't have to manage anything from the past. And when you've been around a while, you know, you've got all these, like, little sort of messy things from your past, right? Everybody does. If you took risk and you did deals, you got stuff to deal, like properties that you still own that maybe you don't like, that you're still managing, you know, or this deal that you still want to unwind, you know, maybe you got into some deal and you didn't like it that much and you got to unwind it. And unwinding these deals is. Takes time. It's hard. It's work, you know, whatever it might be. Or your technology, too. When you have old technology and you have to deal with legacy issues, literally, just like managing your emails or your old calendars, you know, I think about these new people, like, they don't have to deal with any of that. They just come in with a clean slate. They got the newest technology and, you know, go. So I agree there is a little bit of envy, no question.

Yeah, yeah. I guess time will. Time will always tell. You know what I mean? Time will always tell. And, you know, the funny thing is, I look back, to be honest with you, and I thought everything was going to change about literally four to five years ago. Like, I paid off my house on purpose in 2015.

And by the way, I have to say, listeners, you know, I would never recommend that. But go ahead, Pat. I get the psychology. Go ahead.

Yeah, yeah.

I said.

I said let me have cash, you know, let me. Let me have some conservativeness here because I am a compulsive spender on deals, right? I cannot have 100 grand. It's very difficult for me to have 100 grand in the bank. Literally every time it comes time for me to pay taxes, I'm like, damn, where am I gonna get the money? Cause I just invested in three deals. And so because of that, I need to take the money if I want to be conservative and put it so I don't spend it. And so I said, probably five years ago, I started saying, you know, this market's about to crash. Let me just pay off my house just in case. Lo and behold, you know, it's run. If I'd have took that million dollars and invested it in deals, it probably be worth 5 million or 3 million at least now in the type of deals that you and I do with, you know, multifamily and things.

Right? Exactly. One of the things that can help get people through a cycle is obviously having a team, having a network, having a group of resources of people, resources to draw upon, people with experience, people that have been there and done that. A lot of people talk about it's not the how, it's the who. Because learning the how takes a long time. We can all do it. Of course, everybody listening can figure out the how. But you can cut a lot off that learning curve if you just know who has already been there before or who has the resource to solve your problem, or that little gem of wisdom to solve your problem that you might just experience, not at a formal presentation. It might just be a casual conversation that turns on that light bulb for you and gives you the idea you need. And your book, Tribe of Mentors is really about this network effect. Now, the inventor of the Ethernet, you know, talked about the network effect and how the value of a network grows exponentially in proportion to the number of nodes on the network. For example, the first telephone is useless. Right. If you have one telephone, who you gonna call? Right. If you have. If you have one computer connected to the Internet, you really can't do much of anything. But when that network grows and there are a lot of people or nodes on that network, it becomes more valuable. Tell us about Tribe of Mentors and some of the effects. You know, you talk about the first effect, the second effect, the third effect.

Yeah. Well, first of all, it's Tribe of Millionaires.

Oh, sorry. Not Mentors.

Yeah, no problem. But it's the same, you know, a similar concept. So Tribe of Millionaires, it's a fictional story wrapped in nonfiction. So what that means is what we did is. And as you know, many nonfiction books are this way and some fiction as well. But we hired a guy, Dan Clements, who. Who writes for Darren Hardy. He writes all Hal Elrod's books, David Osborne's books. Writes a lot of books.

Hal Elrod's been on the show. Sure.

Yep. And so he flew to Japan with 27 members of GoBundance. We're a men's mastermind, business mastermind. And he flew to Japan with us, 27 guys. And he spent a week with us traveling through Japan and interviewed us as to, you know, what makes us rich, not only financially, but also health, relationships, contribution, things like that. And then he decided, you know what? I want to write this book, but I want to make it a fable. So we got together and we created this fable. And it works like this. There's a guy named Ethan Martinez who loses touch with his father on purpose. They have a falling out. 22 years goes by. Ethan's father dies, and he needs to come to the funeral to deal with the estate. Now, the funny thing is, when he last left his father, he thought of his dad as a deadbeat. And when he gets to the funeral, the father has six pallbearers. All are billionaires and multimillionaires. And he says, holy dirt, you know, how does my dad know all these rich guys? And of course, they're all athletically slim, and they're all in great relationships, and they just got it together, and they finally come to him and they say, listen, in order to cure the estate of your dad, part of the deal was that you spend a week with us on an island, on this special island. And so they fly him on their private jet to an island, and they spend a week with him. And then he uncovers these truths about spending time with billionaires and spending time with multimillionaires and what you learn from just immersing yourself in someone else's company. And the book goes on to explain the effects of that happen one at a time. And we know this as a fact. It's a known human phenomena that happens that if you get together with a tribe of people that think bigger than you and think more positive than you, then naturally good things are going to come of that. Napoleon Hill was the first one to bring that to light. Right. 100 years ago.

And so the reference, by the way, I should just point out the reference. Napoleon Hill talked a lot about the power of the mastermind group and the value of that. So, you know, he, of course, is the author of Think and Grow Rich and many other books. By the way, I loved Outwitting the Devil, one of his books that a lot of people don't read, and I thought that was great. I gave it to my mastermind group at One of our meetings. That was really good. It was a sleeper book.

But I don't know if you ever listened to the audio, but it's haunting. Yeah, yeah, he's got this. The voice of the devil is the devil that you hear in the movies and stuff.

Wow.

It's really gross. It's like, oh, my God. You have to listen to it to understand what I'm saying.

Good stuff. But that's in the Napoleon Hill reference. So go on.

Yes. Yep, yep, yep. So he, you know, he was a big fan obviously, of the mastermind. He said that's. I heard an interview with Napoleon Hill once, and he said, if you had to boil your book down into one thing as to why people fail, fail to become rich, what would it be? And he said, I can't boil it down to one. I can boil it down to two. He said the first reason would be they quit too soon to give up and then they change gears and do something else. He said the second is they fail to develop a proper mastermind.

And that mastermind could be formal or informal, just, you know, so you understand that it could be like a paid business that is a mastermind, like the one I have and the one you have. But it could be just an informal mastermind with associates that you, you respect and you get together. Just in practice, though, I find that when it's a paid mastermind, it's just got more structure and stuff happens. More more so than it does in the informal one, you know?

Yeah. You're forced to. To talk.

Yeah.

Like you're forced to sit at a group of people and discuss things that you certainly wouldn't normally discuss at a dinner party.

Well, and not just that. When you pay for it, you're at stake and you just respect it more. It's just human nature, you know.

Right. One of the things that go bund us that we've done is we talk about this in the book. We've created something called a one sheet, which is kind of like a baseball card. You have a picture on the front, but then you flip it over. The baseball card has all the statistics of that baseball player, but we have statistics of what is your net worth. Right. How much money do you have coming in passively versus trading time for money? How much do you weigh? What's your body fat? All the statistics that would determine whether you're kind of a whole life millionaire. Right. All things. And then we go over those. It takes half an hour to go over yours. So you're forced to sit with someone else who is similar to you. Right. Or better than you financially, health wise, that thing, and go over the back of your baseball card with them, and it motivates you. It works.

Good. Okay, so talk to us about some of those effects that you mention in the book.

Yeah. So what happens to Ethan is the first thing that happens is he finds an effect. The first one he finds is the influence effect, which is your destiny is shaped by those around you. You know, it just happens. You know, Jim Rohn said it best when he said you are the average of the five people that you hang around the most. It just can't be explained. But it just. Trust me, it works. It's like. It's like, you know what your grandfather used to say, you lay down with dogs, you get.

You get fleas. Yeah.

You know, there's another interesting one, which is effect number four, which is the authenticity effect, which is you find your true self among those you trust. And so what happens on these gobundage trips is we do things together, like activities, like a stage snowmobiling, we play broom ball. Let's say we play ultimate Frisbee. We go into caves, you know, go swimming in caves and things like that. And what happens when you do those sort of activities? You tend to trust, and you build instant rapport with those that you're doing those with. Again, it's another human phenomena. It goes back to when people go to war. If you look at these guys from.

Vietnam, they're bonded for life. Yeah. Right. And same. Same with. Same with. Yeah, same with. That's kind of like part of the idea of the Greek system in. In colleges, you know, fraternities and sororities and, you know, I would just say that kind of a different way to add to your point, Pat, that shared experiences are the stock and trade of friendship. And when you go and you do things together, that's just when the magic happens.

Yeah, I'm writing that down.

Yeah. Yeah.

This stock and trade, the shared experiences.

The stock and trade of friendship. You can quote me on that one.

Yeah. No, I love that. I love that. And, you know, I mean, you. You and I. I feel bonded to you. You and I have done some cool stuff together.

We have. We did. We did bobsledding, remember?

Yeah, yeah. We were on our own team in Whistler.

Yeah.

In Aruba. Right.

Yeah. Well, that was in Aruba. Yes. In the Amazing Race. We did do that. And we came in last because we got lost last. I know.

We connected.

I know, I know, I know. And. And then we did The. The sledding in Whistler in Canada as well. So.

Yeah, yeah, cool stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's right, that's right, that's right. So that sort of happens and that. And then you're able to. If you're having marital problems or you're having, you know, some issues or whatever, you're bonded enough to the person that, you know, first of all, you're. You're not as offended when they. They're like, jason, you know, you need to get it together. You know, get it together. Right. You need to look at this. Maybe this is not a good idea. Where everybody else tends to be a yes man because they want to be friendly and.

Yeah. They're just. Yeah, right, Good point. Okay. Any other effects you want to mention?

Well, the other one that I like is the sixth one, which is the connection effect, which is your life can be measured by the quality of your relationships. And it kind of goes back to these pallbearers, right? So this guy dies in his life, is represented by his paw pallbearers. Now we have something in gobundance called gopods. And what these Go pods are is about four to five people that meet anywhere from a weekly to monthly, and they go over their goals. Where are you on this? What's happening with this? Things like that. And again, these authentic relationships are created and it gives value, more value to their lives because they now have these brothers that they can say things to that they would normally not say to anybody else. It's just. You just. It's just very hard for me to walk up to somebody in saying, folly beat South Carolina that I'm friends with and go, hey, what's your net worth? You know, it's awkward.

Yeah, I know. At times I really wish that stuff was published because you'd eliminate the fakers.

Yeah.

You know, yeah, yeah, absolutely. Good stuff. Well, Pat, let's just wrap it up with any closing thoughts you have about real estate, the economy, masterminding, whatever, and give out your website.

You know, here's the thing. I guess the whole economy thing is above my pay grade. I'm not going to just comment on that. I talked to Jason earlier, before we even started this. I really want to get at one of our events, a point, counterpoint, and get two people. A bull and a bear for the US Government, A bull and a bear for the US Economy, a bull and a bear for the stock market, real estate, crypto, cannabis, whatever. I do believe in cannabis being a much bigger industry than it is today. And I've invested Heavily. I probably got a million in. In different cannabis companies. So I'll throw that out as one of my beliefs. But other than that, I say, you know, let's. Let's wait for the future. I still am investing in real estate. I've done a couple of deals this year, but they're of deals. They're like WeWorks. I invested in a WeWorks sort of situation. And a lot of our multifamily, actually, we're selling because we're just getting offers. You know, we're just getting offers that are too good to refuse compared to what we paid just five years ago. And so I think I was. I had about seven multifamily deals that I was in. And three are. Three have sold already and the fourth is getting ready to go to settlement. So, you know, I'm dwindling down on those. Not consciously so much or aggressively, but just. Just because, you know, we're getting offers on them or it's kind of hard.

To resist these great offers. I just sold one of my apartment complexes that I owned with a client and man, I couldn't believe, you know, it seems like we got a great sale out of that. But I don't know, you know, five years from now I might look back and think, why'd I sell that thing?

Right? And you know that. And here's the thing.

But I'm still reinvesting. It's a 1031 exchange, so it's not like I'm out of the market. But yeah, go ahead.

Right, Yep, that does happen. So anyways, I'm gonna leave you with this website. What we're doing, guys, is we're giving away this book for free. If you want to learn more about Ethan Martinez and his six effects that he learns, and then you want to learn more about the real gobundance. Because in the back of the book, we kind of tell a little bit about the real members of gobund. And all the characters in the book were kind of evolved from real life members like Hal Elrod. Hal Elrod was our 25th member to ever join. We have over 200 members now. And some of his personality is in this book, as other members of Gobundance are in this book. So what we're doing is we're giving it away for free. All you got to do is pay the shipping, which is seven bucks. It's a no brainer. You can go on Amazon and buy it for $20 or you could get it for free. Just go to tribeofmillionaires.com that's tribeofmillionaires.com not tribe of Mentors. I don't know where that will go, but tribe of millionaires.com and get it for free. Just seven bucks and let me know what you think. I'd love to hear your feedback either on Amazon or anywhere.

Good stuff. Thank you for joining us and we will talk to you soon. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show's specific website and our general website, hartmanmedia.com for appropriate disclaimers and terms of service. Remember that guest opinions are their own and if you require specific legal or tax advice or advice in any other specialized area, please consult an appointment. Appropriate professional and we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to itunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you're using and write a review for the show. We would very much appreciate that and be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.