1483: Hugh Hendry, Eclectica Asset Management, Albert Camus's God is Dead, Life is Absurd & No Rules

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Welcome to episode 1483, where today we have got a weekend of shows for you. Normally we're just five days a week, but this week we're going seven days a week because there's just too much stuff to cover. We're going to have the famous and very interestingly controversial, sometimes hedge fund manager Hugh Hendry on in two parts this weekend. So we'll have him today. And tomorrow, of course, we'll have my ranting intro parts for you as well. Okay, so what's going on in the world before we get to part one of Hugh Hendry? The stay at home orders caused a huge jump in home improvement projects. I talked about this almost three months ago. John Burns is actually out with a survey on it. So now there's data to back up my prediction, which has come true. Imagine that, another one of my predictions coming through. They're always coming true. What am I going to do about that? Except interest rates? That one never comes true. So I stopped doing it.

Jason, you absolutely suck at predicting interest rates. You're no good at that. Okay, fine, I won't do it anymore. Not going to do it. I'm going to do it. Here's my interest rate protection for you. They will eventually be a lot higher than they are today. Hmm, I think I could be right on that one. I just don't know when. Okay, so the home has become the center of the universe. Talked about that for months now. The home is the center of the universe. If you're in the business of home improvement materials, furniture, home furnishings of any type, whatever it is that makes the home better home, office equipment, home gym equipment, you have already seen your business do quite well and it's going to keep doing well. People are moving like crazy right now. The great American move is underway. The mass migration that I predicted that I was the first to predict. By the way, there was nothing in the media about this mass migration trend that is now coming true. Except yours truly, Jason Hartman, predicting that about. Yeah, it's like, oh God, maybe it's more than three months ago. Time goes so fast anymore. I can't believe it. It's like dog years. One year is seven years in the world of pandemic and civil unrest. Yeah, I was the first to predict this out there. At least that I know of. Listen, I consume a lot of news and I didn't see anyone else talking about this when I was going out on a limb here. But now it's all happening. Now it's all happening. So you know that home sales are through the roof, mortgage applications and mortgage closings are insane. I mean they're just booming right now. Everybody's moving because they want to get into a better home. They realized that their little tiny crappy house in a big city, it just doesn't work for them. They don't want to be in a city. They want to be where they can be safe. They want to be where they can socially distance. They don't want to have these idiot over entitled hypocrite, liberally educated white kids doing riots in their streets. All of those loser protesters, they didn't build that, okay? Yet they're destroying it. That was comrade Obama's famous line, you didn't build that. Well, what do you think of these idiots in Seattle? Do you think they built any of that? No, that was built by blue collar workers that do the hard jobs so these folks can go to universities and, and get silly degrees that have no value in the marketplace taught by professors that work a whopping 12 hours a week and spew out these absurdly ridiculous Marxist ideas from their ivory tower and their 12 hour a week, 10 year job where they can't get fired and they have no, the marketplace has no recourse against these idiots. I mean, it's just unbelievable what this country's come to in some, some ways. It's ridiculous. Ridiculous. So anyway, those stupid hypocrites that do all the rioting and the destruction of businesses and now are doing their extortion rings, their mafia style extortion rings to these poor business owners in these places and shopkeepers saying basically we're going to destroy your business if you don't pay us, if you don't give us free stuff. You think any of these businesses are going to come back to these areas? Not a chance. Not a chance. Hardly any of them will. They will vote with their feet, like every person does. And people are voting with their feet. In mass, we have the Grapes of Wrath 2020. It's like John Steinbeck all over again. But this time the mass migration is to suburbia and our investors can find those properties in suburbia. The booming rise of suburbia@jason hartman.com properties that's the kind of stuff we've been recommending for 16 years now. So Burns, his group surveyed 5,000 recent home buyers. Just last week, 69% of them cited COVID 19 as the reason they purchased a new home, compared with only 31% who said they were planning to purchase before the pandemic. The reasons the COVID 19 related reasons. Lowest mortgage rates ever. By the way, did you hear that? Lowest mortgage rates ever. Don't believe it. George Gammon, who will be speaking at our upcoming virtual Meet the Masters event, which, by the way, I am getting so excited about that event. You can do so much more with a virtual event that you cannot do with a physical event. You can get the best contributors from all around the planet. And this is going to be a really good event. So we're going to have the registration page up for you soon. It's just under a month away and it's going to be super exciting. Our first Meet the Masters virtual conference. And it's our 22nd anniversary Meet the Masters 22nd anniversary event will be virtual for the first time ever. And it's going to be awesome. You're going to love it. So get ready for that. Ticket sales will begin soon and I'll announce that next week. Okay, so lowest mortgage rates ever. I profiled the book debt the first 5,000 years on the show where he goes into a history, a 5,000 year history of mortgage rates. And guess what? We have the lowest mortgage rates ever. Chew on that one ever for a while. That's pretty good. Other reason they moved, they disliked their current home layout. And the third reason was they desired a larger home. So they were living in a city they were living in, God forbid. Downtown Seattle, New York, Chicago, L.A. san Diego, Miami, whatever, doesn't matter. Downtown Boston, Washington, D.C. it's all, all the same deal. They lived in a 500 to 1100 square foot little condo, essentially a prison cell. If you're stuck there all the time in a lockdown. And they were paying three to $4,000 per month, maybe even more. Maybe $4,500 per month, up to $4,500 a month for that unit. And now they realize, gee, I can work at home. My Employer doesn't mind me working from home. I've been pretty productive. I'm just cramped up in this little tiny prison cell. And why not move to one of the suburban markets listed@jasonhartman.com properties? Shameless self promoter. Yes. Oh, well. And rent it from one of Jason Hartman's investors. And I can rent one of those houses for $1,500 per month and my square footage will triple or go up by 33%. I'll have a 1500 square foot house and I get it for half to one third the cost. And I got a yard and I can have a home gym and I can have a really nice home office and a two car garage and all will be well with the world. And maybe I get much better weather in the bargain too. Yeah, pretty good deal. No wonder there's a mass migration going on. Okay, so investors, the tidal wave is forming offshore. Do any of you surf or body surf or boogie board? I grew up doing that. Never got good at surfing, but certainly spent many years on a boogie board. Okay. When you go out too far beyond where the waves are breaking, you know you're out there and there's just some swells and you're like looking at that swell and thinking, that's going to be a great wave. I got to catch it. So you paddle, paddle, paddle, swim, swim, swim. If you're on a boogie board or body surfing, you've got fins. So you can go really fast with fins. They amplify your swimming ability dramatically, pretty much like leverage does on a real estate deal. And following my 10 commandments, all 21 of them. Well, wait, 22 of them now. Because commandment number 22, thou shalt invest in low density areas. So you're out. You see that swell and that swell, as it starts to get closer to the shore, it turns into a bigger swell and then a wave, and then the wave crest and you're riding that beautiful wave, that beautiful wave. It's so fun to ride it. And then you go down the face of the wave and ultimately the wave breaks. So if we liken that metaphor to investing and timing this pandemic and now riot. Hey, investing. It's a riot, man.

Oh, gosh, I'm so annoyed by this whole thing that's going on. But it'll pass. It'll pass. You time it. Right now we're way offshore still. We can see definitely the swell. Definitely the moves are happening, things are picking up, but it's going to be much more significant than it is now. We ain't seen nothing yet. So you get on early before it gets crowded. Listen, surfers especially, know what I'm talking about. They have people like, you know, one of our clients, Jeff. Hey, Jeff, are you out there? Jeff from Laguna Beach, My, my old friend. He's a. He's a client of ours. He's done very well for himself with his real estate portfolio. By the way, Jeff, you know, you should come on the show. Haven't talked to you in a while. Hope all is well. Anyway, so Jeff will tell you or any other surfers will tell you, you don't want someone to steal your wave because the wave can only fit so many surfers on it, or you're going to crash into each other, have an accident, you're going to be bleeding, you know, when the board hits you in the head and it's not going to be pretty. You want to get that wave before it's crowded so that you displace the other people trying to get that wave. Meaning you want to get those properties before someone steals your wave. There's a tsunami forming out in the ocean right now, a tidal wave of opportunity to get these good suburban properties before someone else does. And by the way, grab our webinar, okay? Jason hartman.com webinar Right now, we're featuring Southwest Florida, and it's a really nice, short webinar. It's only 32 minutes long, so go check that out and you'll like it. A lot of you have already. I think, I think we already had, like about 80 of you. Check out that webinar. So, Jason hartman.com webinar singular not webinars Webinar singular Go check that out right now after this podcast and learn about Southwest Florida. And of course, we'll have changing markets there as we do new webinars and so forth, but you get that wave before those other surfers do, and you ride it. By the time, you know, most investors are in the position where they are, they're trying to catch the wave after it already broke. It's just whitewashed by then. And the opportunity has all dispersed and they're coming in real late in the game. And yeah, you know, it's okay. There's, you know, you can still make a little bit of money then. But the people that really do well are the ones that are working hard, they're paddling, or their, their feet and their fins are flipping way out in the ocean as they see that swell forming so that they can displace the other surfers and get that beautiful curl of that wave to themselves. It's not just them, but them and a few other surfers that got in early. That's what you want to do. All right. What else? Well, I got some other stuff, but we better get to part one of Hugh Henry and tomorrow I'll be back with more. Usually we're five days a week, but this week we're one of those seven day a week. There's just a lot of content to get out to you. So if you need us, we are here to be your guide, your trusty guide along your investing journey and your wealth creation journey. We are here for you@jason hartman.com or if you're in the US 1-800-hartman and here is part one of hedge fund manager and real estate developer Hugh Hendry.

Hey, it's my pleasure to welcome Hugh Hendry from St. Barts from his resort, maybe modestly, it's not a resort in total, but he'll tell you more. And he was founding partner and at various times through the years, chief investment officer, CEO and chief portfolio manager of Eclectica Asset Management. And that ran for 15 years. And it attracted a lot of attention back in 2008, obviously during the Great Recession when he achieved a 31.2% positive return in the depths of really bad times in the Great Recession. And he has a reputation as a contrarian investor. Lately he's just been a macro viewer of the economy and the markets, and he's known for his outspoken Twitter bombs and wisdom of many, many years in the macro community. Hugh, welcome. How are you doing?

I never felt better, as you say, I closed down the Eclectica hedge fund at the end of 2017, and I think I retreated into a dark, gloomy cave. I know everyone's just at various stages of coming out of confinement, but I think I went into confinement at the end of 2017. But this year I ventured forward and I'm daring to offer my view on the world. And it feels like the old me. I'm misbehaving you to be curious. You have to misbehave first, I think was one of the wisdoms that I learned earlier in my career.

Sure. Well, hey, any conformist and person who doesn't misbehave a little bit doesn't get any attention, right?

Well, I don't know if it was the naivety of youth. I mean, I certainly recall back in the day. So that would be back in 2002. And my seed investor for the Macro Hedge fund, the offshore fund, was, would you believe it was the same patron as George Soros and his fund back in George launched in 1969, and this wonderful sponsor. He was saying, I only have, I think, was it three problems? And I thought three. I could name 33 off the back. But one of his issues was youth. You know, that I was at the time, I want to say I think it was 30, 33. And he was lamenting that he could remember the day that when George Soros began, he was 40. It was something about the wisdom of investing in a man who had survived the vicissitudes of life. And therefore, you felt perhaps more comfortable deploying your capital with a man as opposed to a boy. But here I am now, and who knows where I am?

Well, hey, Jim Rogers, Soros former partner, has been on the show four times now. I just had him on again last week, so. But he doesn't want to talk about Soros at all.

Jimmy's a one of a kind, I think. In my last podcast, I was recounting an evening spent at a private party overlooking Red Square. And I had Jimmie Rogers, I had Nassim Taleb, I had Mark Faber, the legendary kind of strategist Mark Faber. And a profound, deep think about a character. And I was bouncing off the three of these geniuses of the financial world. And I was saying, Jimmy's just hysterical. He's always great value. But even in downtime, clearly the mystique that surrounds him. Being your founding partner with George back in the day, everyone wants a piece of Jimmy and he gives it and he has, like, he would go into his lapel and come out with a sugar sachet and say, I want you to buy sugar. This was back in 2005, 2006, when commodities were really ripping another pocket. He would have a silver coin. Another would be a gold coin. Another would be whatever that was.

Jamie always on that sounds like him. He's a great guy. But, you know, we've had Mark Faber on the show, but Nassim Taleb. Oh, wow. I mean, just so interesting. I have not interviewed him yet, so it's on the bucket list, definitely. But, hey, you know, tell us what you think about where we're going. There's a lot of uncertainty out there, and you people are rightfully, I think, very concerned. Take it wherever you want. There's so much going on in the world right now.

Where does one start? People get concerned by the new. They get concerned by the law of big numbers. And since the crisis of 2008, we have seen new practices developed by central banks around the world, which kind of come under poorly classified, but they're willing to go under the same of quantitative easing or the printing of money, as though the printing of money absolves all financial sin. And since that emerged really very strongly in March 2009, I want to say there has been a very strong bull market in fear. And by that, and I very specifically, actually using the phraseology of another fantastic commentator in the macro space, Christopher Cole, who's a great expert on options and the mechanics and the construction of option strategies, and up until the virus.

You and I and the folks perhaps watching this, we've been kind of had a sense that everything's not quite right. And having seen how quickly things could change in 2007, 2008, we've been very keen to, if you will, protect ourselves. And in the financial markets, people have been doing so by buying put options and in the process volatility, which is one of these kind of nebulous, kind of ethereal concepts, but it's one of the founding stones which kind of allows you to create a stock market, a bull market or a bear market. That kind of the living, breathing and exhaling is really volatility. And volatility has been too high, which is to say that people have been willing to pay too much to protect themselves against bad events. The reality is the events of 2008, they occur maybe once every 100 years if left unchecked. And if the financial authorities had not pursued the course of action that they did, we could have gone back into the analog of the Great Depression. And of course we did. But there's a fear that the Great Depression is just on our doorstep. So there's been a bull market in fear. Fear, perhaps not misplaced, but the ability to profit from fear just has not existed because of the kind of the central banks and what they've done, rightly or wrongly, and in doing so, actually they put me out of business. I was your supplier. If you were scared about the world, like you say, I made 31% in 2008. If we look at that further, I made 50% in the month of October. I made 21% on a Monday, taking the kids to school.

Give us some context for that, because I don't have the numbers off the top of my head. But you were up 31% in 2008. How much was the market down in 2008? I know it was down. I just don't remember the calendar year.

Calendar year question.

That Delta really shows how skilled you were or lucky.

Well, I would disagree with that. So, I mean, let's try and answer your question. The calendar year drop for the S and P, I want to say, would be maybe high. 30s% in terms of point to point, from high to low would have been much greater. Possibly is like 58% in terms of determining skill. It is more a function of the course of how we got from point A to point B. And that was the truly most difficult aspect to manage in 2008. You've seen the movie the Big Short. I know most of the participants or the characters who are. Who are portrayed in that movie, not necessarily the American managers, but I knew all the salespeople and the products because we were all kind of. We were the small community that could see the future, like, happening in front of our very own eyes. And if you remember one of those, that wonderful chap from California, he was sitting on the most genius portfolio. He was sitting on nitroglycerin, which was going to blow to the high and make so much money for his clients. And yet he had to get them gates, a technical word, but essentially he had to close the fund to redemptions because the clients wanted their money back. I had the same thing a month, the month before October, my biggest client. I was very concentrated in terms of clients. I had a client that owned 50% of my capacity and they wanted all of their money back. Just on the verge. So the hardest thing is trying to keep people invested.

In other words, they did well and they wanted to take some cards off the table.

No, no, no. The event had yet to happen and they were beginning to give up on it.

Oh, got it.

My life is way too full of interesting anecdotes. I had a conversation in New York with these benefactors, these sponsors of my fund, and I was down 3% at that point. I'd been all over the place. I'd been up 25, I'd be down 10. And now I was recovering my losses and I was near flat, but near flat was minus three. And I remember them saying, you're down minus three, but you don't get these markets. You don't understand these markets. We are going to give all of our money to this guy, this guy. He's down 30, but he gets it. I was just like, what are you talking about? These are amongst the most sophisticated investors in the world. Go figure. The world is a crazy place.

Yeah, it is. Well, at the end of the day, everybody's human. And it doesn't matter who they are. They're all just people. At the end of the Day.

Yeah. And the date of your birth doesn't change your genius. If you were born in 16, 1969 or 1769, you've still got the same weaknesses.

Yeah, no question about it. Well, Hugh, everybody's wondering, where are we going from here? I mean, this is like we were talking about. It's a crisis time. I've been doing this presentation I call Pandemic Investing and I actually got the domain name for that, pandemicinvesting.com I kind of couldn't believe it.

Smart move.

Yeah. That was kind of amazing. And I think things are going to get pretty tough. It's a lot of businesses are picking up a lot of efficiencies now that they didn't have before. But at the same time, a whole nother set of businesses losing a lot of efficiencies. Businesses that depend on physical space, hotel, restaurant capacity, airlines where people can't socially distance and they're going to be forced into lower capacities. That's going to affect their operational ability dramatically. I think moving movie theaters, Broadway plays, you know, whatever. So what's going to happen? It's hard to make sense of the world nowadays.

You're correct. Typically I am curmudgeonly, typically I'm a kid, that the glass is half empty, not half full.

And it's feeling half empty today. The thing is, with the virus, three months ago we had no data and therefore it was legitimate to be very fearful and to go the extra yard to try and protect our communities and to try and manage the pressure that it seemed was likely to be felt by our medical infrastructure today. And I say this is, I'm a figures guy. I've spent the last 30 years analyzing stuff.

And we have so much data and with the data it is very hard to reasonably justify this willful destruction of enterprise across the world. Now it's easy for me to say that, you know, kind of cozying up in my kind of Billionaires island in St Bart's the figures speak to another story. And so half of me feels like today is a narrative from an Ayn Rand book. Has Atlas just Shrugged. Where is John Galt?

John Galt is in his valley.

Yeah. And if you will, that's I'm in my island. I'm like, you know what? Have it, take it. And we're sorry. Conspiratorial theories I think are for the fairies. But I, I can't understand.

It feels like a coup d' etat by the state where we're now all working and we're now all in the faith, in the hands of the government. You know, that very. Remember, it was the most scary thing you could say we're from the government, we're here to help.

Right?

Yeah, to help.

Really.

I think you got the wrong house. Like I think you want to be next door, you know.

Right. The famous last words. Reagan used that line a lot. You know, I'm here from the government, I'm here to help. But you know, and certainly everybody around the world has become, they've been forced to become a lot more dependent on government. And the next stage of this is going to be even more scary. And I'm not talking about the economic impact, I'm talking about contact tracing, the surveillance society, the Orwellian 1984. Of this we ain't seen nothing yet. We thought it was bad after 9, 11. It's just going to mushroom after this.

I fear that's correct. But.

I think it's very potent that I was using that very powerful slogan from Reagan from 1980. It's 40 years ago and I think we're at the end of a 50 year cycle. So I think the origins of the 50 year cycle began with the US breaking away from Bretton woods from the gold standard. Up until, I want to say August 1971, a US citizen or anyone holding a dollar bill could exchange it for its equivalent in gold ounces. And that was exposed as a lie by the overseas central banking community, notably the French, that 50 year cycle. So by the mid-1970s.

The end of the previous 50, so the. I want to say we had a cycle which ran from 1930-19 to mid-1970s, so again say the 40 or 50 years, but it then merges with the cycle which is just concluding now. And at the end of these cycles, chaos reigns. And we've had 40 years of order, not chaos. But if this was 1974, chaos would very much be the accepted belief system. What is chaos? Chaos would be the OPEC cartel pushing the oil price from nothing to 12 bucks and having traffic around the block to get gasoline. Chaos would be the Vietnam War and it would be the evacuate would be the failure. Chaos would be the hippie revolution. Chaos would be breaking down, thankfully the liberation of the crazy racist legislation. There was so much chaos would be the central bank, the Federal Reserve having an income cap on how much you could earn. Chaos would be the government telling you how many dollars you could take out of the country. Chaos was everywhere. And we elected Reagan and Thatcher and we were praying for order. And we got people like Paul Volcker, the chairman of the Federal Reserve. And Paul was spiritually and physically a giant of a man. Think of a central bank that raises interest rates in a recession.

He forced a recession.

Of course, Volcker just passed away. But his proponents would say that he was willing to make the country take the tough medicine and break the back of inflation. But others would say not so much. I mean, what do you think? What is your Volcker stance? I'm curious.

All of these characters, they are a combination of making it happen and being in the right place at the right time. Okay, Paul Volcker today would not be the right time. So why was Paul Volcker the right man at the right time when he became Fed chairman? I think I want to say 1977, he became fed chairman. He was potent and powerful because we were at the end of the previous cycle. We delevered after the US banking system was bankrupt in 1932 and we purged the economy of its debt and we had a global war in between which slowed that process down. But we typically. We went from total debt of three times the American economy. And by 1973, 74, that debt figure was one times we deleveraged. When you deleverage, when debt is small versus income, you can employ a sheriff like Paul Volcker and he can raise interest rates. He raised them by 200 basis points, 2 percentage points on a Saturday morning. You can do that. You can purge the system of its rottenness. I was saying the Fed and a Volcker Fed the Fed. The mission then is to be kind of like Tony Soprano. You pimp the economy, nothing pimps you. Excuse my colorful language. Today, a Paul Volcker would be a catastrophe. Or that strategy because there's too much debt.

Is Jerome Powell doing the right thing today? The balance sheet is insane. I don't think any of us. I mean, we thought it was crazy during the Great Recession, but now. This is outlandish what the Fed is doing. And Powell is so bold about it. He makes no bones about it. Buzz Lightyear is his hero. To infinity and beyond. Greenspan would be talking in code and you'd have to decipher him. But Powell is just.

No, I think you're very unfair. I think Powell is exactly. I take issue with almost everything you said about Powell.

I'm not saying he's a bad guy or anything. I'm just saying he is what he is.

You are taking issue with the policies that he is trying to explain to the American public. And of course he's explaining and trying to say that they are Worthwhile or they are very much. They are like a medicine which is necessary. So the actions of the Federal Reserve, the fear is that they are printing money and that eventually if you print enough dollars, then the price of finite things like property. So prime real estate. Prime real estate, yeah. The things that are so like St. Barth's is prime real estate. A, this is a, I want to say 23 kilometer wide. The circumference I think is 23 kilometers, which is to say it's tiny. The building code makes it harder and harder to construct on the island. And so the stock of new housing is not expanding. That's a finite supply. The argument is the more and more and more billions, and now we talk about trillions of dollars that you produce, then you're going to push prices higher for these finite assets. That's the argument in favor of gold. And that's why gold is beginning to resuscitate and rejuvenate itself and prices look as if they're set to go higher.

What is the Fed doing wrong? I would say the Fed is pretty much at the limits of what it can do. I think the Fed gets a bad rap. I think that it's not printing money. The financial markets are watched like hawks by very, very smart and aggressive bond traders. They are pricing 10 year securities today at almost a zero yield. The problem with the Fed is credibility that no one believes that they have the wherewithal to generate inflation. So I don't really take issue with what the crisis. Crisis. We saw about a 35% peak to trough very rapid decline in the price of risk assets in the month of March. And were it not for the intervention of the Fed, that probably could have been a 50 or 60% correction.

And I'm not necessarily being critical. I'm just saying that it's amazing. I mean the action has been overwhelming. It's really.

But it hasn't. So I'm not trying to kind of say the opposite each time to you.

But you said push your hot button, so here we are.

No, indeed. Because you know, I know sometimes I have a tendency to kind of to be a little bit too full of myself. But the remarkable aspect of what's happening with the American Central bank, you know, Jay was on. Jay's trying to put a. He's trying to say, hey look, I'm Fed Chairman, but call me Jay. I'm like, I'm just a regular guy.

Right, right.

He's actually, he's now embarked on a radical PR campaign. Okay. And he's been advised to do so because of his credibility problem. The thing is, when they, if you will, printed money, which is a nebulous concept, but they can print it to the equivalent of almost annualized. If they continue printing or intervening in the manner they did in one week in March, you'd be talking about something like $60 trillion of dollar creation. To put that in context, that would be like three times the size of the US Economy. That's enormous. And yet the bond market went big deal. What did you do? You didn't do anything. If anything, you didn't do enough. If anything, interest rates are going to go negative. On one hand, you're sitting there going, wow, I read in the newspaper the Fed just lost its bearings. And we're printing all of this money and this must be the advent of higher prices. We're going to get inflation. I'm going to be in my car and I'm going to have to queue around the block and oil is going to be 100 bucks. On the other hand, the smartest people, smartest I know there's emotional intelligence.

But the bond people, who know more.

About pricing bonds than anyone in the world, they're sitting there going, not worried. So it's kind of hard to be Jay Powell today. Everyone thinks you're a moron. I had that problem. Don't be a moron. Be an oxymoron. And that's the Fed today. Fed's an oxymoron.

This will be continued on the next episode. Thank you for listening and happy investing.

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