1512: Rentier Class, Jeffery Gundlach, Big Cities Suffer Exodus, Economic Rent

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 1512. 1512. So today we've got part two of the rentier class to talk to you about. But first we've got Jeff Gundlach talking about the economy, the uneven recovery and the mass migration. Evan said something to me interesting today, sent me a message saying, Jason, I think the Wall Street Journal is writing news releases for us because all the stuff you said two or three months ago is what they're saying today. And you know what, here's Jeffrey Gundlach saying it too. George Gammon said, you gotta find this interview with him because he's saying exactly what you said months ago. What do we know? Here we go again. You know, it's good to be a prognosticator whose prognostications have come true. Hey, so excited about our upcoming Meet the Masters event. As I announced yesterday, we've got the special add on session. And by the way, when you get your tickets for Meet the masters@jasonhartman.com masters you have the opportunity to purchase the recordings at a super inexpensive price. Just a little bump and a lot of you have and in fact more than half of you have purchased those, maybe 60% or so. And if you are unable to attend the full follow on session on asset defense asset protection the following week, we will make that recording available even if you didn't buy the recordings. Okay, so just so you know, that will be available to anyone who attends and I think you're really going to like it because that topic, we just can't do it justice. Our speaker can't do it justice in a half hour time slot. But he's going to tee it up for you and then offer the add on sort of extension class if you will the following week. So really looking forward to that. I was really glad we were able to add that to the Mix. And I gotta tell you, this event is shaping up to be just completely awesome. Who was I trying to imitate when I just did that, when I just did this? Really bad. Awesome. Maybe that's better. It's more like Ricola, you know, that old TV commercial. Anyway, you may not know the reference, but there it is. So let's listen to Jeffrey Gundblock. This guy knows what he's talking about. And I think you'll find this clip from Yahoo Finance to be quite interesting and quite telling.

Economy is going to be unevenly affected. We know that big cities are likely to suffer an exodus. We know that prices on apartments and homes in the San Francisco area are declining. That's also happening relative to Manhattan real estate. And that means that other parts of the country are going to start to see perhaps inflow of population. We've been tracking at double eye kind of the showings, the request for showings of home.

So he's talking about the migration out of the cities and the influx into other areas. Just like I told you that would happen, right? And now it's happening. And this is just the beginning. It's just the beginning. A lot more of this to come over the next weeks, months and years. You know, this is. I think this is going to be a big long term trend, you know, for so many reasons. Again, you'll hear my pandemic investing presentation at Meet the Masters. That'll give you a lot more detail on this and a lot more on that. But look at this. Here is Wuhan, China. Okay? Wuhan, the place it all began, right? The Wuhan virus. Oh, Trump, you can't call it that. That's so wrong. Just the facts, ma'. Am. Just the facts, ma'. Am. You know, that was the line from that detective on Dragnet, that old, old show. Dragnet was an old TV show. And he used to say, just the facts, ma', am, when he was asking someone for their version of the story. And so that's what Trump was doing. Just the facts. But of course the facts are suddenly like racist in today's world because we've all gone nuts. So look at this. The drop in residential rent on an annualized basis in the Chinese city of Wuhan, where coronavirus first emerged last year. What do you think that number is? See, this is a proxy for what is happening just starting to happen in the US and many other places around the world too. But remember, like I've said before, around the world, they don't have the same options we have. We have more options in the US for this. Because we have, what? Suburbia. Suburbia. If you want to go look up a great song about that, go look up the song by Rush, the most talented band that has ever walked the face of the earth. Rush. The song is called Subdivisions. Talks about the suburbs. That's what that song is all about. You know, if you don't listen to the song or like the song, just read the lyrics, look up the lyrics, go bing them. Don't Google them, bing them. And you'll hear the lyrics on subdivisions. Pretty interesting. Or you'll read the lyrics on subdivisions. So the answer to the question is 6%. That is already the rent reductions in Wuhan, China. That is a proxy. I say it is a proxy for what is just starting to happen in the U.S. remember, they're several months ahead of us. And in Covid 1984 time. Do you like that one? I just heard that last night. I thought it was pretty good. You know who told me that last night? Carrie Lutz, who's been on the show many times. Right? Yeah. Not COVID 19. It's Covid 1984. Because so many of the things coming out of that are Orwellian, so very 1984 esque. But 6% decline in rents in Wuhan. Let's go back to Jeffrey Gundlach and hear more.

In various parts of the country, and it's very uneven. There are parts where they're more suburban. Like, I mean, it's a reversal of the trend that we had a decade, decade ago. And so there'll be an uneven type of. Type of effect to the economy. The other thing that's going to happen that isn't as being talked about nearly enough is the states are really in trouble. The tax revenue from the states has completely collapsed and it's unlikely to improve.

And so, like, and this is a big deal, especially in New York, But I'll tell you something, it's California too. I mean, these are many, many years ago. I predicted we would see municipal bankruptcies. We saw a few of them. There really weren't that many. I thought there would be a lot more. See, when my predictions don't come true, I'm gonna tell you the truth, okay? I'm not always right. I'm wrong sometimes. I'm only human. I don't have a crystal ball. At the end of the day, everything's just an edumacated guess. That's all we can do is an edumacated guess intentionally saying that wrong. Just for those of you who might be new, I Know the real word is educated. Don't panic, okay? I'm attempting. And it's a vain and bad attempt. I'm attempting a little comedy and entertainment, okay? Edumacated. So anyway, the edumacated. Guess that's what it was. But the reason we didn't see more municipal bankruptcies, and my prediction only came partially true, is because they just keep figuring out a way to paper over it the way they're papering over this economic crisis we're in. How are they papering over it with paper money? Printing. And it's not even really paper, as we all know. It's electronic. I still wonder, remember that episode I did maybe 13, 14 years ago on this show, and I talked about how. I wonder when back then, Alan Greenspan, our Fed chair at the time, the Maestro, as they called him, which. Ridiculous, ridiculous to give him that much credit. All he was is a Keynesian, okay? An Ayn Rand sellout. You know, Alan Greenspan used to be really good friends with Ayn Rand. They used to meet, I think, once a week in her apartment in New York. They called this little club with Nathaniel Brandon and Alan Greenspan, and I can't remember who else was in it, but really interesting. And I met Nathaniel Brandon a couple of times when he was living. Remember, he was the significant other, I think they were married, of Ayn Rand. Then I also met her other significant other, the sole heir to her estate, Leonard Peekoff, in Russia on a cruise, actually. That was kind of funny. But anyway, I drove Nathaniel Brandon home to his apartment in Westwood or his condo in Westwood Village, Los Angeles. Interesting conversation. But this little club that they had back in the day was called, get this, like, talk about being funny, right? It was called the Collective because they wanted to poke fun at communism and collectivism. None of them believed in it at the time. But the funny thing about Alan Greenspan, by the way, just so you know, we are on a tangent here, tangent alert. Tangent alert is that Greenspan seemed to, for a time, believe in the Ayn Randian philosophy, but then he became a sellout when he became Federal Reserve chair for so many years. And Maestro, just a Keynesian money printer. But I always wondered, back on that show, I said it, you know, maybe 13, 14 years ago, I always wondered, because they don't really print money into existence anymore, even though everyone just uses, you know, the word printing, they're not really printing it, right? They create money. Well, first of all, as I've taught you over the years, money is lent into existence. The most weird, amazing and difficult thing to understand ever in the world. And it's lent into existence, but it's also created electronically. So whenever they create money at the Federal Reserve, or really I should say currency, that's the more proper word. You know, I just envision the Federal Reserve chair going into some room that's like a vault, maybe like the room, you know. What was that movie with Tom Cruise? It was one of the Mission Impossible movies. Maybe it was the first one, you know, where he's coming in through the top of that room and it's got this computer in it and he's got to be come down on a cable through the ventilation system and not touch the floor because there are sensors on the floor. You know the movie I'm talking about? Right. It's one of the Mission Impossible episodes or movies. And he's, he's hanging there and there's this special computer and I'm wondering, you know, I'm guessing that at the Federal Reserve and then there's a subsequent terminal at the Treasury Department probably. Right. There must be this computer in a room where they go in and after they have the FOMC meeting, the chairman walks in there or. Sorry, Janet Yellen, I don't mean to offend anybody. The chairperson. The chairperson walks into the room and then the door closes behind them. This room is like a vault and they sit down at this computer and then they create currency out of thin air. And my question is, if I ever get to interview a sitting or past Federal Reserve chairperson, I will ask them, is that computer you sit down at to create currency out of thin air, is it a Mac or a PC? What do you think? Let me know. Jasonhartman.com Ask just go there and tell me if it's a Mac or a PC. The magical computer that creates money out of thin air. Okay. What's Jeff Gundlach say states are going.

To be looking for? Some have already asked for more government bailouts. So there's a long queue of entities that want or need government bailouts. And that's just going to keep further pressuring the situation. So I think that the economy is going to feel the effects of the recession that we're in now for quite some time to come. I think it's very unlikely that we'll get back to our peak economic growth even in 2021.

And he is right. In my opinion. We are going to have the modified square root recovery. I'm going to put that on the screen for you at Meet the Masters. That's what's coming. So modified square root recovery, forget about this Nike swoosh. Forget about the V shape, the W shape, the U shape, the whatever shape. It's the modified square root recovery. That is what Hartman says and that is what will happen. Well, I don't know. He might be wrong, but that's what we think is going to happen. All right, we'll get to that later. We've got a lot more on that. Let's jump into part two of our discussion from yesterday again. You really don't need to worry if you missed part one. You can go back and listen to yesterday's episode later. It's no big deal. These things don't have to be like consecutive or anything. If they did, we would play them together and we wouldn't split them. But for variety's sake, it's kind of fun because you hear some different stuff and it's just more, it's more stimulating. And we all need a stimulus today, Right? And by the way, the next one is coming. You know, if you're keeping track of what the government's been doing there in Washington or. Well, they're probably not in Washington. They're probably on a zoom meeting, but they got the next one coming through. So don't worry because it's all fake money and they'll all just rescue us with fake money. No problem. Don't forget to get your tickets if you haven't done so already. Jasonhartman.com masters and here we go, continuing the conversation. You know, let's take a bit of a recess on this. And we got to get to some of those current event things, too. But understanding the concept of economic rent, being in the rentier class as investors, as landlords, remember what I've said before, folks, that it is truly incredible that you can essentially have a whole bunch of tenants and I'm going to call them partially indentured servants. Yeah. Boy, if AOC was listening to this, she would have my head for saying that. Right? But here's what I mean, and I've said it before, is that, think of it, when someone goes to apply to rent one of your houses from you, you will not want to go over a 33, 20 to maybe a maximum of 40% rent to income ratio. That means that you basically own their labor for 10 to 14 days of every month. All of it goes to pay for the house they rent from you. That's a pretty great deal. Rentier class, I'm talking to you folks. Listening, right? It's an awesome deal. And you ought to Sign up for as many of those deals as you possibly can, and you can find them@jasonhartman.com shameless plug okay, you should, you should. Let's listen to a little audio clip on this about economic rent. This is from Investopedia and I think it's a good overview and it'll give us a little fuel to talk about this before we get to our current events.

Economic rent represents money paid or made in excess of the expected amount. Economic rent typically occurs when a product, service, or property is in short supply but demand is high. Scarcity and exclusivity are common conditions of economic rent. A gifted basketball player provides an exclusive talent that's scarce even within the ranks of professional sports. While he expects to be paid $10 million a year for his services, the team that signs him offers $13 million. The extra $3 million is the athlete's economic rent A clothing business wants to open a shop on exclusive beachfront property where only one vacant space remains. The site sees plenty of foot traffic and offers ample opportunity for a business to prosper. The property owner expects to charge $10,000 a month. As others contemplate the location, the owner of the clothing business offers $11,000 a month to help her secure the exclusive spot. The extra $1,000 each month the property owner collects represents economic rent. The clothing business could spend that extra $1,000 on employee raises or other investments, but it's an opportunity cost it's willing to spend to get such a desirable property. If market conditions were perfect, economic rent would not exist because competitive pressures would drive prices down. Economic rent also explains the high value of intelligence tangible assets such as patents and permits. The term should not be confused with rent, which simply refers to payment for the temporary use of an asset or property.

So I just thought that would be helpful in the discussion because you look at my regular listeners. If you've been listening to me for the last 15 years or following me for the last 16 years doing this, you know that I've moved around a little bit and I've tried to find the perfect place where I want to live. And so I lived in Orange county for 25 years, most of my adult life, and then I moved and I lived in Arizona for six years. I lived in Las Vegas for a year and a half and now I live in Florida. And as I look around and I've looked at many cities, you know, I thought about moving to Austin, Dallas, you know, many, many places. And as I look around and I go to these different cities, I'm also Doing a laboratory experiment for all of you listening. Not just looking for my own home. I'll look at houses, I'll look at apartments. I look at everything. And it amazes me how homes, whether they be apartments or single family homes, how they have this just natural, incredible scarcity built into the equation. And when you buy a property, you are buying a super scarce, unduplicatable asset. Okay? There is no. Just like. There is no other person exactly like you. You are completely unique. I can hear Katy Perry singing in the background. Firework. You know? Right, that song.

Jason, you know what else? That video reminded me of a story that you've told on the podcast a couple of times about a restaurant. If I remember correctly, it's in Palm Springs that you went to and you said it's been different places or different restaurants, and yet you think the whole time the guy who owns the building is still collecting rent from whoever is in that building. Does that story ring a bell?

Palm Springs?

I think so. You were talking about how you. You went to this place once 30 years ago, and then you went back and the building's still there. It's a different restaurant, but the same guy probably still collecting rent.

Oh, yeah, it might be the same owner. Yeah, but in other words, the names change. The restaurants go in and out or the whatever goes in and out, but the property remains very constant, and that's one of the great things about it. Yeah, no, absolutely true. So hold on.

Just acquire it.

Yeah, it's such a great asset class because it just has natural scarcity built into the equation. And no, I'm not going to say the Will Rogers quote, although it's true. Buy land. They're not making any more of it. Yeah, but the fact is, there's a lot of land. The point. The point is the commodities and the zoning requirements and the cost of construction and it's just complicated. It's hard to duplicate real estate. And you're a unique person. Everybody's a unique person. And guess what? Every property is unique and it cannot be replaced ever. So you just have a natural scarcity built into all of the houses you own. So that's a beautiful, wonderful thing. So congratulations, listeners. Most of you listening are probably in the rentier class. If you're not, reach out to us. Jason hartman.com, 1-800-hartman will help you get into the rentier class.

That's right.

You can charge rent and live off those rents. Okay, we got a couple articles we gotta discuss. Evan, let's go lightning round on those.

We Got a lot. What did you make, Jason? About this article from the Wall Street Journal about companies like Starbucks that are doing just fine even in this coronavirus shutdown. You know, you. At least by my house, the line to get into Starbucks is around. You know, it's like the whole parking lot now.

Huh. That's amazing. Yeah.

Oh yeah. I mean, the line that. The drive through line. The drive through line, you know, every time I drive past, I never go to drive throughs. Yeah, well, they, I mean, right now.

Now that's all they have. Yeah, right.

That's right. And they're asking for rent reductions even though they're doing fine.

That's ridiculous.

What do you make of that?

Yeah, you know, they're just, they're just opportunistic and they're looking to take advantage of the landlords.

But.

But I wouldn't want to be a commercial property landlord right now. That's for darn sure. And by the way, you know, the rent performance on the single family homes is quite good. I mean it is really quite good. You know, by the way, folks, share your experience, listeners. Please go to jasonhartman.com ask and tell us what's going on with you. So far as we have seen, this is anecdotal and we're only really two months in. People are all getting their rent. I mean, I haven't heard of any big problems of any significance that are abnormal. You know, you're just gonna naturally have tenants that don't pay sometimes. I mean, that's just being a landlord. But in the middle of the pandemic, we just haven't heard of any issues with rent collection.

Yeah, fantastic. Okay. And this next article, I know this could cause a big tangent. Cause we would love to talk about this forever tangible. This is an important article from cnbc. After trying for a decade, central banks might succeed at generating inflation. Now you've been right about a lot of things, but inflation has not gone as much as we thought it would.

You know what I'm going to say I've been really wrong about interest rates, but I have not been wrong about inflation. Look, we have had inflation. It just by the way, I said this on a recent episode that you haven't heard yet, Evan, I know you haven't heard it because it's just going up today. So. So we have not had as much inflation. Compared to what? Is always the question.

Yes.

Compared to the amount of money creation, inflation has been low. And what that shows to go you, goes to show you is that the US is In a really enviable position vis a vis the rest of the world. We've got the reserve currency, we've got the military to keep it that way. We, we've got all these special privileges which kind of suck for everybody else. I'll be the first to agree with that. But for the US it's great. And you know, the question is how. You know, you listen to the Peter Schiffs of the world and all the doom and gloomers and they keep saying everything's going to collapse, the dollar's going to collapse. We can't have this much debt. You can't run deficits like this. I disagree. I think they can keep kicking this can down the road for a time. Long, long, long time. But inflation is definitely there. Divided between consumer prices and asset inflation, divided based on how you're definitely spending. Everybody's different. Everybody has their own personal inflation rate. And also look at the fact that there has been real inflation. It's not that much compared to money printing. I agree completely. And it's also understated. If you, if you look@Shadowstats.com versus the consumer price index, we all know it's fake. But now, oh my God, we've never seen money printing like this. And we've never seen a Federal Reserve chair that just, he makes no bones about it. Jerome Powell makes no apologies. It's like we're going to create more money than ever before in human history and who cares?

Well, I think part of this reflects. You said this right away, you might have been the first to say it, that Trump is our first real estate president. And real estate investors, we love inflation. We do. So he probably has like minded people, I mean, minutia. So I think that it's definitely part of the policy and it's a good policy. As you said, inflation's a great policy for government. It's a great way of dealing with debt.

Oh, it is. Listen, that is their business plan. The central banks and governments around the world, not just the US Their business plan, every single one of them is inflation. Inflation. Because inflation reduces their debt. And they all love to spend. And it's a great deal. It really is a great deal. The same way for real estate investors. So align our interests with the powers that be and we're all going to win.

That's right. Yeah. That was another article that we talked about that I sent to you where Mnuchin is saying we can borrow trillions of dollars because the interest rates are so low. And I said, you know, that's what we want our clients to do on a slightly smaller scale, we're not talking about trillions, we're talking about tens of thousands, sometimes hundreds of thousands. But borrow, because you're going to be making, as some of our pro formas would say, over 30% annual returns, and you're borrowing money at 4%. I mean, what an incredible differential.

Yeah, it's truly an amazing opportunity. You know, income property is the most historically proven asset class in the world. It's the most tax favored asset class in America, folks. You're just not going to beat it.

No, you're not. And you have a guide in Jason and in his team, us, all of us, who, who can help you along the way. A guide is somebody who has experience in themselves. And I listen to Jason and I bought properties and it's been incredible for me. And you know, in a rentier class, I mean, I work hard, very hard at my job and I love my job, but you can't always rely on your job. You have to have other sources of income. And this is the best tax favored source of income. It's incredible. And as you sometimes teach Jason, sometimes we don't see the benefits right away, but we see them when we get our tax returns and you see how just incredibly efficient it is.

Right, right. You don't see all the benefits right away. It's like that iceberg. Most of it is below the surface and people don't know how to do the math when it comes to income property. Most don't. You do. And hopefully all of you listening have gone to Jason Hartman dot com. You've watched that free video on the front page on how to analyze a real estate investment that will really, really help you understand in 27 minutes how to be a great investor. So that's there for you. Yeah. Good stuff. Evan. I think there was one more.

Right, let's see. We got so much to talk about. Oh, yes, yes, yes. Reopenings.

Yes.

That Florida. You're in Florida, I'm in Illinois. Very different. Although, to be honest with you, the governor of Illinois, his wife and children are at their $12 million working farm in Florida. It's incredible. So, yeah, Governor Pritzker's family is in Florida while he here. And a very different point I gotta make.

Politicians, even if they don't own income property, they're rantiers. Okay. And you can see why the rentier class was resented because their rentier is another word for saying elitist. Okay, yes. But the difference is those are elitists that don't deserve it. They did not earn that. Yes, of course they got elected. Right, I get it. But they abuse their power, and that's why they're so resented. Okay, so it's, you know, it's different than you as an income property owner. You've earned it.

Okay, so what about Bernie Sanders? We're gonna go on a tangent, but he was kicked off a commune for not working hard enough, and now he owns three houses.

It doesn't surprise me. Somehow they go into Congress and they're just ordinary people without much money. Most of them, you know, some are. Some are wealthy, of course, but they sure end up wealthy somehow. I don't know how that magically happens with their, what, $190,000 a year salary. Somehow they just get magically rich when they become a congressman or senator. It's amazing, truly amazing.

Anyway, his article was, yeah, Florida's opening. Illinois is shut, and it's, you know, going to stay. Governor Pritzker has essentially said, I'm probably going to extend. I mean, he's signaled that he wants to extend the shelter in place right now. No restaurants are open, and they're just very different approaches now. I mean, I'm not sure which one is right, but a lot of what I've been reading lately is that Florida is doing very, very well.

You know, I'm really. And I think most people listening are starting to agree that a lot of this has been a big sham. I mean, we've been hoodwinked, folks. I mean, yeah, coronavirus is certainly real. I'm not wearing a tinfoil hat. I think you should take precautions. It's a real thing. There's no question about it. Okay, but is the cure worse than the disease? That's the question we have to ask us. Look, people die every day from suicide, from car accidents, from the regular flu, from everything. And no, this is not the regular flu. This is more significant. There's no. No question about that. But is the reaction the proper reaction? Probably not.

Probably not. I think the more we learn, it really hit nursing homes and the elderly extremely hard. So we should. That's what Florida has actually done. Really well, that the percentage of deaths in nursing homes in Florida compared to New York is just. I think it was like 1/6 of the number.

Well, when I talk about the. In my pandemic investing presentation, which, by the way, you are going to get if you attend the virtual Meet the Masters. Yes, we're doing Meet the Masters virtually.

Yes.

And we figured we may not get a chance to do it. This year. So we got to do it virtually like everything else. But I think it's going to be awesome. I'm super excited. And you're going to get the Pandemic investing presentation. But one of the elements I talk about, Evan, one of the six lifestyle mega trends is multi generational living. And we're going to talk about how investors can profit from that dramatically. It's a big part of it. It's going to be great. And the assisted living, the nursing home stuff has been just tragic. It really has.

And I think to the broader question, I do think this could, I mean many of our investors, we tend to, our investors tend to invest in red states compared to blue states because a little more landlord friendly laws, cheaper housing. And I was just having a conversation with my wife where she said, Evan, if they don't reopen the schools, we might have to move to Florida. Now I have a wonderful job and I love Chicago, I love the city. So I don't really think that's much of a reality. But it just showed for people who can live anywhere. I mean, why wouldn't they want to be in a place where there's some functioning economy rather than being forced to sit in place? I think that's a real thing.

In a left leaning state, you're always going to have the politicians and the government doing everything they can to try and make people more dependent on them and less self sufficient because dependency is what brings you votes and keeps you in power. And that's just the law of, you know, the world. That's the way it works. So you're going to see the right leaning states that are more landlord friendly, that have better properties, that have better, they're business friendly, they're just better in every way. And they're the places we invest in. You're going to see those places more likely to help people get back to work and get back in business. There may be some additional infections, but there will be fewer suicides, less domestic violence, less alcoholism, less people going bankrupt. I mean, you don't know the cascade of problems this leads to.

Big problems. And then I think it also backfires in the long run because I think basically what if I'm looking at people in my neighborhood and I read between the lines, people are going out, people are violating this, they're doing it in secret. And I think it actually erodes respect for the institutions when you're, when you, when you don't meet the people's needs. So it actually backfires. So then it's like the Boy who cried wolf then when it actually is something important. People have lost trust in government.

That's certainly true. And you certainly have a bird's eye view into that. Being a rabbi and dealing with people in your congregation. And I'm sure you know their innermost secrets many times. So. Yeah, absolutely.

Well, I do. And, you know, everyone's concerned. You know, this is scary. This is so much uncertainty. And I actually. We talk about how important income property is to becoming part of the rentier class, but it's also important for having some clarity and security in life. We are living through unprecedented times and one way we can, people are always gonna need a place to live. And so our strategy helps people gain that clarity and stability. It's truly. It can be life saving for people. I mean, you've gotten testimonials from people who lost their job, but because they had a couple of properties that they purchased from you, they were able to get through it. I mean, it's truly life saving.

Yeah, it really is. It really is. So, folks, we're here to guide you through this, this crazy time we're living in. You know how to reach out to us, and we're here for you. Evan, we gotta wrap it up. Thank you so much for joining me today and everybody listening. Happy investing, and we will talk to you on the next episode. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. Be sure to check out this show specific website and our general website, hartmanmedia.com for appropriate disclaimers and terms of service. Remember that guest opinions are their own, and if you require specific legal or tax advice or advice in any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to itunes or Stitcher radio or whatever platform you're using and write a review for the show. We would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.