1634: Real Estate Bubble or NOT? Rental Report Logan Ransley, CONTEST WINNERS!

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 1634. 1634. Thank you for joining me today. Okay, I do have an announcement because today is the day we announce our contest winners. Yay. Okay, so congratulations first of all to the two winners. Remember, we have two people in our New Year's goals contest that win 500 bucks each. $500 cold hard cash. So we will reach out to you, or you can reach out to me and give me your PayPal address. Or if you need a good old fashioned check, we'll send you a good old fashioned check. And the first winner of $500. Remember, I told you the odds were really in your favor. Not many people enter these contests. These are. This is not a big contest. Okay, the first winner is. Jordan Miller. Jordan Miller wins.

I had a mentor in college who told me to always be thinking about the next step and to never be complacent or satisfied where you are. I'm the kind of guy who's always thinking about the future. I love thinking about the what ifs when it comes to what I could do or accomplish. And if one quote could sum up my life's mantra, which happens to be from my all time favorite movie, it.

Is get busy living.

You'Ll get busy dying.

After college, I was a sponge for seeking wisdom and I subscribed to a ton of random podcasts. Luckily, one of those was Jason's and I fell in love with the idea of my Financial Independence Day.

$500 for his great video. Congratulations to him. And the other $500 winner is Ashley Marie Slater.

Hello, Jason. My name is Ashley Marie Slater and I am from rural upstate New York. I'm an opera singer and for the past few years I've been working on cruise ships, but bringing great classical music to the people on board. It's been really devastating not to be able to sing and share music with people. And recently I started trading my time for money working at a local warehouse. But the silver lining in all of this is that while working, I was able to listen to audiobooks and the like. And that's when I discovered you and your podcast. And, Jason, you have been educating me. You have been inspiring.

Ashley, congratulations. You have won 500 bucks. And guess what? We didn't promise it. It wasn't part of the contest. But we had four other runner up videos. And we're gonna give all of you 100 bucks each just for fun. Because, hey, you know, there's an old saying. I think it was Mae west, that old character, who had this great saying. She said, money is like manure. It doesn't do anybody any good until you spread it around a little bit. So we want to spread the wealth. And we're giving four others. We'll call them semi finalists. That'll be high mank, if I'm pronouncing that correctly. And Heimank Gupta, spotless tomorrow. That's the handle. And Jerry Maitland and Steven Bartalotti, you all get a hundred bucks each. So congratulations on that and thank you for submitting your videos.

And.

And thanks to all of the rest of you who entered. We really appreciate you entering the contest. And if you're already in contact with an investment counselor, just reach out so.

We can get your information.

Ideally, we'll send you the money via PayPal and we just need your PayPal email address. Or we can send you a good old fashioned check. Or actually, Zelle, we can use Zelle as well. So any of those ways will work. If you don't reach out to us, we will reach out to you. And congratulations, you've got stimulus money coming your way from us, not from the government. So it's on the way to you. Let us know. I got a lot of great feedback on my End of America episode, which was on the YouTube channel. While it lasts, you know, it may be censored at any moment, folks. It may go away. You never know.

It may go away, it may go away.

But it is on YouTube as I speak it, so you can see the visuals that go with it. But of course, on Monday, we also played that episode as a podcast. We do that occasionally. Sometimes there is a little bit of crossover, sometimes not. Sometimes we have stuff just for one channel or the other, and it's not on both. But occasionally we do some crossover. So if you're wondering why I sound different, maybe it does sound different. I am in the car because I have some Internet problems at the homestead today and had to come and jump in the car and get a public WI fi connection. Yes, we are so dependent on this technology and these ugly evil tech companies that are shutting down the whole world. By the way, speaking of a little censorship update. Well, we'll get to that in a minute. First I want to talk about bubbles, and then we have our guest. But I'll get back to the censorship update, because Big Brother is not only watching you, Big Brother is controlling what you say, what you hear, and what you can think. And they are memory holing you so that some history will just never be known because you can't hear the dogs that don't bark. Okay, so let's talk about bubbles for a moment. So throughout history, there have been bubbles. Of course, one of the most famous is the Tulip Mania bubble from the year 1619 to 1622, and you all heard about that. It consumed parts of Northern Europe and wow, it was absolutely staggering in its multiple of original price. And that's how you measure a bubble. What was the value at the peak of the bubble versus the start of the upswing? What was the multiple of the original price? And then, of course, US Stock bubbles, Chinese stocks, oil, more Chinese stocks. Oops, I lost my page here. I'm reading this on my little spare.

Laptop in the car.

So forgive me on that. And so there are all these different bubbles. So what I'd like to do is share with you some of the numbers from some of these bubbles, just so you can see how staggering it is. And many are waiting for the real estate crash. And as I've mentioned before, and many of my expert guests on the show have mentioned, I think those people are going to be sorely disappointed. Why do I think they're going to be sorely disappointed? Because, you know, look, there will be an adjustment in the market. No question. There are always adjustments. And if the adjustment is a big enough adjustment, then it's labeled a crash. Right? So the reason they are going to be sorely disappointed if they expect this to happen anytime soon. Now, granted, when I say this, I must make the disclaimer that I am barring some event that we can't exactly predict. For example, we have got a country that's going through some chaos right now. If we don't see an orderly transition of power, or maybe we'll see no transition of power, who knows? It's getting pretty heated out there. If we see lots of civil unrest, if we see, you know, some other extrinsic event, you know, maybe, God forbid, terrorism, something like that. You know, there are all these wild cards always. But if you simply look at the interest rates and you adjust for interest rates and inflation and current higher home prices, what you see is that homes, of course, as I've told you before, are actually less expensive than they were 14 years ago on a monthly mortgage payment basis. And that, my friends, is how the vast majority of people buy a house. They buy it based on the monthly mortgage payment. Now, so that maybe answers the vast majority of the question, are we in a real estate bubble? The answer is, I don't think so. Not yet. Maybe we'll get into one when things become really, really frothy. But with these low interest rates, it's hard to be in a bubble with negative real interest rates. In real terms, interest rates are negative. And remember why we love that mortgage and why I say half jokingly, half not that debt is my favorite four letter word is of course, because this type of debt is what we call self liquidating debt. This debt goes away by itself. The tenant pays the debt, the property supports the debt. It is self liquidating debt when we don't have to pay our own debts. And in fact, the tenant usually gives us a couple hundred bucks extra every month as a tip for letting them pay our debts for us. I love income property. It is the most historically proven asset class in the entire world, bar none. No question about it. Okay, so let's talk about some of these bubbles for a moment. Then a quick censorship update, then our guest who is going to report some interesting factoids to you. Okay, getting to my chart here. If it will stop being so squirrely and stop moving around on me on this little tiny mini laptop screen that I'm not used to. You know, you get really spoiled when you have all these big screens at your desk, right? I used to just look at a little laptop screen all day, but now, you know, got all these big screens and it's hard to go back. It really is. First world problems, right? Okay, so stocks from 2009 to today, the stock market has had a giant run up. And many people say we are in a stock market bubble. And there is a lot of evidence for that. Now before we go over the rest of these bubbles, I do want to say one additional thing about bubbles. You can be in a bubble and the bubble can continue and the bubble can expand and the bubble can get bigger and it can keep getting blown up more and more and nobody knows when the bubble will pop. It is Virtually impossible to know that. So I was talking to someone today, one of our clients, who was saying, look, I know the stock market's in a bubble. And I've been saying that for six years. And it has been in a bubble for six years, but it's still going somehow or another, right? So it's very hard, if not impossible to know when that bubble will ever end. And that is the thing you've got to understand. So the stock market has been in a bubble for a long time. It continues to be in a bubble, but that doesn't mean it can't keep going up. Can you make money inside of a bubble? Sure. You can? Absolutely. Because the bubble just keeps blowing up bigger. And that is the thing that happens. So as we look at some of these bubbles throughout history, of course, stock market bubbles at various times in history, oil market bubbles, the tech bubble, remember the dot com bubble, really kind of started in 1994 with Netscape, the Netscape browser and Mosaic and all those old names you used to hear up to 2002 with a pet smart sock puppet and webvan and all these idiotic things that everybody just stuck dot com on the end of the name and venture capitalists and Stock Investors in IPOs threw money at this stuff. And it just goes to show you, when you look at the history of bubbles, it just goes to show you that people, even supposedly educated, expert type people, they fall for bubbles all the time throughout history. Don't give these people, whether they be our politicians or our tech overlords in the Communist Party of Silicon Valley, don't give them any undue respect just because they're rich, just because they got elected to office doesn't mean they're smart. In fact, many times it's the complete opposite. So hopefully you agree with that, you know it and you understand that that's just the way it is. These are just fallible people. Many of them are corrupt and crooked. You know, many of them are just downright evil as we see with the censorship war going on, which has just taken on new heights. I mean, that's a bubble, right? That's a bubble. That's another type of bubble. But we'll get to that in a moment, hopefully, if we have time. All right, so we have all these bubbles, but let's talk about the big, big bubbles throughout history. So we, and we've talked about these before on the show. There's of course, the south sea bubble from 1719 to 1722. And in the South Sea bubble, right, we had, let's See what our multiple of price was. It was about a 12. Well, in reading this chart, maybe that's a 14 times multiple of original price. Now, the Mississippi bubble, remember I've talked to you on past episodes about John Law and the Mississippi bubble, which was an absolute scam. It only lasted for three years from 1716 to 1719. And in the Mississippi bubble, we saw prices, these outrageous prices, and John Law was the main character in that whole story, go to almost 20 times multiple in just a matter of that very, very short time. But then everybody nowadays, what are they talking about? You know what I'm going to say, right? And remember that when I talk about this next potential bubble. Maybe it's not a bubble, though I tend to think this one may not necessarily be a bubble. We will see. I'm not saying it is. I'm just talking to you about what is on the chart here. And that of course is. Drumroll, please. It is Bitcoin, yes. 2014 to today. Now remember, Bitcoin existed back in 2009, but in 2014 it really started getting some, some wings. All right? And you started hearing about it. We were talking about it at Meet the Masters, I believe, back in 2011 or 12. And, and we talked about it. And I remember people saying, what's bitcoin? What is that? I don't understand. Well, we all know now, mostly, right? So 2014 till today is what the chart charts, if you will. And that bubble has expanded by a 35 times multiple. And I will tell you, since so much has happened with bitcoin, just in the past three weeks, that bubble has blown up even higher. And maybe it can blow up even more. Maybe it'll never collapse. None of us know. None of us really know because again, no intrinsic value. That's the argument. Also, fear of political risk, of regulatory risk, definitely reasonable when it comes to bitcoin. However, maybe the intrinsic value, maybe the utility for it. Remember, my two value drivers for any commodity on earth are what if you remember, they are scarcity and utility. Well, Bitcoin has scarcity because There are only 21 million coins and some of them have been lost. And it has maybe utility if it becomes money or if it becomes digital gold or if it becomes a store of wealth. Now those are pretty big ifs, so be careful. It's a highly volatile asset class. But if you've got some money and you can afford to speculate, I think you know, it's got an asymmetric grist component, which is, which is rather interesting. But the Biggest and most famous bubble of all time, of course, is the Tulip Bubble. Tulip Mania. Isn't it amazing that there's a bubble about a plant, about a flower? You know, you'd think, well, we could just grow more, right? But that's what adults all over were freaking out about back between 1619 and 1622. Tulip mania. And guess what? During that short time span, the multiple, the multiple went up immensely. It was about 52 times starting price. About 52 times, if you can believe that, in that very short three year time span. So those are bubbles. And again, you heard what I said about real estate, about income, property. I don't think you need to worry about that one too darn much. Given that. Okay, I have a listener question here. Jason, how does depreciation get unwound? Say I'm reaching the age where I no longer want to be involved in real estate. I start to sell some of my properties without doing a 1031 exchange. How does the depreciation work upon sale? Similarly, we moved out of a house, rented it out, and have been taking depreciation. But now we may be moving back in. Was depreciation on the house a mistake while it was a rental? And that comes from Chad. Chad, thank you for the question. It's a fantastic question. And for first off, I want to make my usual disclaimer that you've heard me make many times. Tax law is complicated. I am not a tax professional. I can give you the basics with which you use those to talk to your tax professional. But some people will have a rental property that they will actually move back into and turn it into a personal residence so they can get the personal residence, the deduction upon sale. And I think the rule is two out of the last five years, if you live there two of the last five years, I think you will qualify for that. But just double check me on that. And some people do that. Now, if you don't do that and you don't do a 1031 exchange, and if you don't do the special super wowy unique program that I did two podcast episodes on previously, which is a unique program program, and that is a basically a way to monetize an installment sale of the property where you can lower your tax bill. So check out those prior episodes on that. It is a unique strategy for sure. You will have to simply recapture the depreciation on those properties and pay the tax. That's why there is somewhat of a big incentive to get people to stay in the real estate game. And to keep providing housing. That's what the IRS wants us to do. That's why they gave Donald Trump such a fantastic tax deal on his tax return, because he did what the IRS incentivized him to do. And that's why he paid so, so little in taxes, because of the beautiful tax benefit of depreciation. It is absolutely the best tax benefit going because it's a phantom write off, it's a non cash write off, and it is the best deal going. Okay, quick censorship update and we'll get to our guest. So did you know that in one day last week, the disgusting evil company known as Twitter deleted 4.5 million accounts of conservative Twitter users? 4 and a half million accounts in one day. They deleted. And these people, of course, have no recourse against the evil empire, the Communist Party of Silicon Valley. Liquid Web, a big hosting company, a big server hosting company, is now deleting conservative websites. Of course, you know about Amazon deleting Parler's account, Amazon's AWS service, and before that, just days before, Google and Apple, two more evil companies, Apple of course, employing sweatshop labor, violating all sorts of US child labor laws. But they're not violating them because they're not in the US they just manufacture in China and, and run their sweatshops there. You know, of course, you know, we buy their products readily, without any conscience about it whatsoever. Here and then Tim Cook has the absolute hypocrisy and audacity to lecture us on every fake virtue signaling moral quality. Absolutely pathetic. These companies are simply just pathetic. But they are where we are. Look, hey, it's our fault. We buy their stock, we buy their products. You know, we spend time on their platforms. We made them what they are. So now we've created a monster and we must deal with it. But yeah, so the server company deleting people's accounts and you're just seeing a lot of this every, everywhere you look. It's absolutely horrific what is going on in this country. Of course, Parler sued Amazon for antitrust violations. Let's hope that goes somewhere. And let's hope they pay. And let's hope these companies who have been basically rent seeking, they have had all sorts of advantages in their favor for way too many years. And it's time to make them operate like normal companies with normal profit margins. There ought to be laws that they have to answer the phone and provide due process to people and they can make normal profit margins like other businesses. That's how they should be. And if you think These companies are big employers. They're absolutely not. These companies are the worst employers because they automate everybody out of a job. So if you look at the market cap of say, Apple or Google or Fakebook or any of these companies, Twitter, same the market cap per employee, it's absolutely astonishing. Compare that to the market cap per employee of, say, the New York Times, which is a normal, reasonable market cap for a company per employee. You'll see that these companies employ almost nobody compared to the billions of dollars they are making for their founders. It is absolutely atrocious and ridiculous. And without further ado, let's get to our guest. It's my pleasure to welcome Logan Ransley to the show.

He is coming to us from Down Under, New Zealand. Not Australia, No, New Zealand.

Beautiful face. And I recently saw a report that they published.

He's the founder of Landlord Studio and this is a real estate index report that profiles rental housing in the United States.

Logan, welcome. How are you?

Very well, thank you. Appreciate you having me on your show.

Yeah, my pleasure. My pleasure.

So first off, maybe just share with.

Our listeners and viewers your overall take on the rental housing market in the U.S. what do you see happening out there?

So it's been very interesting this year. Obviously it's been very up and down from, well, being able to anticipate what's going to happen. So we've seen everything from rental collected dropped over time and some of our users have unfortunately had to fault on some of their properties. So for a long time it seemed very grim, but it's actually picked up a lot over the last kind of two months. Interest rates are really low in a lot of places. So it's really a really good time to kind of invest in rental properties in general.

And you say for a long time it seemed very grim. You're talking about, I'm guessing, lockdown quarantine time, which was really only a few months. That was not a long time, but.

It seemed like a long time to some.

I know.

Yeah. I think that for most people it felt like this was going to take a long time to get to get through.

Right.

It felt like this lockdown thing was just going to last forever. But what we've seen is obviously it actually passed quite quickly and even in the stock market, you know, saw this big, massive drop and then it picked right back up within a month. So it's been very interesting to watch that as a whole, I guess, and the impact particularly on the residential rental market as well.

You know, there's been a lot of.

Talk about eviction moratoriums, tenants not paying their rent. And you know, I read that stuff in the news. And of course the news media likes to be sensational. Bad news sells, you know, sensationalism sells.

But, you know, we just have not seen much of that at all with our clients.

It's like the tenants are paying their rent. There's really, you know, virtually no problem whatsoever.

But I'm guessing in some areas of.

Large institutional properties, apartments, lower end workforce housing, where there's, you know, higher unemployment rates in like the service sector, I'm guessing there you do see a much more significant problem. I mean, you know, our clients are doing single family homes. It's a real different market. What do you think?

Yeah, it's been really interesting from this perspective because what our data is showing on our system is that although rent is being collected, it's taking a little bit longer. But it's kind of going against this whole idea that's being shared through the media that there's massive actions happening and people are losing their jobs and they can't pay the rent. In some cases that might be the case, but overall, as a kind of aggregated and looking at our data, it's not the case. And the reasons for that may potentially be because the types of people that were affected might be in professional jobs, et cetera, they've got a steady income, they can work from home, et cetera, they can still pay the rent, but it might just be taking a little bit longer.

Sure.

And you know, the other part of.

It is we blame the news media a lot, but really we ought to just blame Google and the way the search engine world works. It's really the way search engines work. Because clickbait is how you get views on a YouTube video or listeners on a podcast. You know, when you do a headline that says, you know, mass evictions, mass wave of evictions coming, mass foreclosures coming, you know, those things get the clicks. You know, that works. I mean, it really does because humans in general have a bias toward that kind of news. You know, we all want to see sensational things, but the reality is just quite different and it's pretty amazing. Why don't you share your screen with us and go over some of your report? You've got some graphs and charts, right?

Yeah, for sure. So I'll just share my screen here. This is our October version of the Residential Real Estate Index Report. It's quite short and concise. What we do is we take around 10,000 active leases in the US and we aggregate it anonymously. And what this allows us to do is really piece together some of these trends that are happening. In this case, we've chosen rent collected, so that's landlords actually logging payments in our system. What some of these graphs are showing is that there was a diplomat in terms of percentage of rent collected, like the completed rent and that period where we had lockdown and when Covid kind of hit in full force. But it actually picked up really quickly afterwards. What this is actually saying is that for that first month, we may have had quite a large impact, but that could suggest that the market as a whole was just. There was a lot of kind of fear, and I guess people didn't really anticipate what was going to happen. We kind of picked up to a bit of normality as the year went on. So in May, June, July.

Okay. And by the way, for those not watching this and only listening to it, I just want to tell them what that chart basically shows. Basically, we're looking at a chart here that shows a dip in April and then coming right back up way above that to, you know, 80% type level, you know, by September.

Yeah. So essentially what this is saying is although rent's taking longer to be collected, it's still being collected, which suggests that these mass evictions that some of the media is talking about isn't actually the case in this case.

Okay, good. What else should we know?

It's really interesting because we've spoken to a lot of our users and we were really interested to see how they responded to this particular. Well, these circumstances, and many of them had obviously been affected by some of these late rent payments. But we wanted to kind of dive in to learn a little bit how they handled the communication with their tenant, and particularly how they retained their tenant so that they didn't end up with a vacant property. The kind of information that we learned from our users was, I know, fairly standard around how they handled these comms. They set up contingency plans, they communicated with the tenants, they set up payment plans so that the tenants could pay it off over time if they were impacted. But I think the biggest kind of lesson we've learned is how that you should be prepared for circumstances like this, particularly with just some money in the bank so that you can actually float these rental properties in the case of a pandemic like this.

Right.

Yeah. Well, this was an event nobody was really expecting, that's for sure. But it's here, and I think everybody has learned a lot from it. And we'll be much more prepared in the future. So on the decrease, I'm looking at your graphics again here. You show an April decrease of 3% and an October decrease of 2%. What do those numbers mean? Do you want to share your screen again?

So what this is saying is that when that Covid hit and the lockdown hit, we basically had a big decrease in terms of the total completed rent payments after a specific period of time. So we are looking at this Trend over a 28 day period. And this is saying this is how much in terms of a percentage rent is being collected after that 28 days, which is 28 days after the rent is due, essentially. So the rent might be due on the 1st, but we're looking at this over kind of the month period after that to see actually how long and I guess the percentage of completion over that time. So what this is saying is that, you know, approximately and the normal kind of rate is around the 75 to 80% completed by the end of that 28 day period.

So we have to divide up by.

The class of housing. Of course, we talked about lower priced workforce housing, we talked about apartments versus single family homes. But what we didn't talk about is high density urban areas versus suburban areas. And suburban areas are faring very well. In fact, they're gaining in pretty much every way as the urban areas are hurting and suffering.

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So these, the statistics is taken off kind of a broad range of different rental class groups across the US Particularly from key states like Texas, California, New York, et cetera. We don't specifically go into individual areas as such, but it really just gives you a good idea about what's happening at a high level across all the different types of rental properties in the marketplace.

Mm. Okay.

And go ahead and scroll down there if you would, and let's look at some of the other stuff. So there's the rent completion.

Okay.

That's the number of days it takes to completely collect that rent in the survey, right?

That's correct. Yeah. So basically what we're saying here is in March there was 12 days in order to. Over the entire data set, there was 12 days in order to reach, so 70% completion. And then in April there was 19 days. So it actually took longer once we went into April. And then as we hit May, it kind of decreased again. And then over time it decreased further. The really interesting part was when we got to October, which then it started going back up again. And these were just all kind of related to different trends that were happening in the marketplace at the time and also very much directly related to the COVID impact and what was happening on like a nationwide kind of scale.

Okay.

And in the final part of our report, this is just really a summary of, I guess from our perspective of why we're seeing these trends. So particularly in this report, it was about comparing it against what the media was saying in terms of the evictions that were happening and then comparing it really to what was happening on our own data set. So from our perspective and from what our data had been saying is that although the media was reporting these things, actually it wasn't the case because essentially what was happening is that although rent was taking longer to be collected, it was still being collected by landlords.

Okay.

So just to wrap it up for.

Us, if you would, with just your overall take on the market, where you see it going, just any other thoughts you have on the, the rental market, but feel free to speak to this sale market too. And you know, I guess that would, you know, on your platform that would be. Are people adding units to their portfolio? Are they growing their portfolio size? Are they shrinking their portfolio size? You know, that's, that's in my opinion a proxy for optimism or pessimism in terms of the market outlook.

Yeah. So it's really interesting. We've seen a lot of units users selling off property, but we've also seen a lot of users expanding property as well. So it's kind of polar from what my, my take on this is that essentially there's a lot of people that are still scared and fearful of what's happening. Potentially they are over leveraged.

Well, they also might need to raise cash for cash. For example, if they're unemployed, they might need to cash out of the property.

Property.

Even if the property is performing well. That is not necessarily the issue. The issue is what's going on in the rest of their life.

Exactly. So personally, I think it's actually a really good opportunity for buying into the rental market at the moment. Interest rates are very low, but from my own conservative nature, I would be hesitant to over leverage and take on too much debt as well. But in saying that, I think there's an opportunity at the moment for people to expand their properties and to potentially figure out a way of kind of retaining what they have rather than just selling everything off. But I also understand that in some circumstances that a lot of people can't just do that.

Yeah.

You didn't break up this report though, on geographical locations. I mean, even my mother, who has only sold one property in her whole life. She's just an accumulator of. She just wants to buy more, more and more. She is even thinking finally of selling off some of her portfolio in California because that state is so poorly run. I heard a funny thing the other day. I just got to share with the audience. Elon Musk, widely considered to be the world's smartest man, and he recently announced he's moving to Texas, and he's probably going to start moving his business affairs out of California, too. But so far, it's just a personal move.

Right.

And so the funny line is, Elon Musk, the world's smartest man, is moving away from the world's dumbest governor, Gavin Newsom.

I thought that was pretty funny. And, you know, to see him leave the state. And so, you know, it really matters.

What the geography is because people are leaving California, they're leaving New York, they're leaving Massachusetts, they're leaving, you know, they're leaving a lot of these places and liquidating properties. But then they're buying properties, but it takes them a while to buy because if it's just their personal residence, you know, they probably rent for a year and figure out exactly what area they want to live in in the new city or even if they want to stay in the new city. So, you know, there's kind of a lag time there. It's hard to judge a lot of this stuff, isn't it?

What we'll be doing is focusing in on states to see the differences in terms of the data sets because what we've personally seen from our customers and talking with them is it does vary depending on the states. And from what I've seen in the market, there are a lot of people leaving California due to various reasons, taxes or management or how it's run, et cetera. But it's something that we, we, we will be focusing on and releasing new, I guess, insights into over the future.

Sure. Good stuff.

Well, Logan, thanks again for joining us. Appreciate it.

Not a problem, Jason. Really appreciate it.

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