1670: Happy Money, The Japanese Art of Making Peace with Your Money by Ken Honda

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors. Welcome to the Creating wealth show, episode 1670. 1670. This is not your host, Jason Hartman. This is Adam stepping in for Jason. He is at a real estate conference today, so we will not be able to record his intro for today. But it is a 10th episode and you know what that means. It is time for a topic of general interest and today Jason will be talking with Ken Honda. So without further ado, here's Jason and Ken.

It's my pleasure to welcome Ken Honda to the show and we have got a great topic for you. We are going to talk about happy money, the Japanese art of making peace with your money. And of course, we've all heard it. And I don't know how much we're going to cover on this, by the way, but I just got to mention it because it's like a cliche. Of course you can't buy happiness. Money won't make you happy. So in fact, sometimes money can make you less happy. By the way, I don't want to have any false promises about money, even though we, we teach people how to make money and how to invest and how to make money grow. So, so let's dive into this topic. And Ken, welcome. How are you?

Thank you, Jason. And how are you, everybody? I'm so excited to be here and thank you for your invitation.

It's great to have you. And I've got to say, if I'm a little different, I'm doing this interview much later than we mostly do it because Ken is in Japan. He's actually in Tokyo. It's 9:30am there. So it's bright and early in the morning for you and winding down for me.

I'm actually on the back of the other side of the planet.

Yes, yes, you are. And the funny thing is we were talking off air. I was In Japan about 15 years ago maybe, and visited Tokyo. And then you used to live in Boca Raton. Just south of me. Here in Palm Beach.

It was Palm Beach. I loved the area. And actually I wrote a book on my stay there which became a national bestseller. I sold about 1,500,000 copies.

Which book was that?

Teaching of a Jewish millionaire whom I met. And he taught me everything about money. That's why I became financially independent in my twenties. So I appreciate all the time that I spent in Florida and US and I have a huge respect for American philanthropists who are very generous like yourself and just start sharing what they know, what they have. So I'm so happy to be on this show.

That's good. Well, it's great to have you. Ken, tell us, you know, how do we make peace with our money? Well, maybe before I ask that question, Question. The premise is that we're not at peace with our money most of the time. What do you mean by that?

Unfortunately, we feel frustrated when we think of money. When we receive a check, we get frustrated because it's not more than we think. So we, we complain about how little we get paid and when we pay bills. And we also feel frustrated, sometimes sad, sometimes anger. Why do you have to pay so much for the taxes, electric bills? So in this money, dealing with money, most of us feel stressed out. And only a few percentage of people feel less stress free with money.

Is it best not to try to make money or, you know, it seems like the opposite of that if money causes stress or is it the lack of money that causes stress?

Right. But what's interesting is that it doesn't really matter how much money you make or how much money you have. It's about your attitude toward money. I have interviewed so many millionaires and billionaires in my life, and I found out that some financially challenged people are happy, whereas billionaires feel stressed out. Whereas, you know, middle class people, some of them feel stressed out, some of them have no stress whatsoever. So it depends on how you deal with money. It's your attitude.

And like everything in life, attitude is so vital, so critical, isn't it?

Yes. So my book Happy Money is focused on how to relate yourself to money. When you receive money, can you stay happy? And when you spend money, when you pay bills, can you smile with your check? That is the attitude, you know, and it's interesting. It just takes a little bit of a shift in your mind that money can be your friend. A lot of us feel like we are money, we are slave to money, which is not so healthy. So I recommend start treating money as a best friend.

Tell us about some of these stresses and unhelpful beliefs we have attached to money and how we need to change them.

For example, everybody can relate to this. When we spend money, we will lose money. For example, when we pay kids tuition, school tuition, if we do that out of gratitude, that becomes happy money. But we feel like we are losing money for tuition, which is not a healthy attitude. You know, the money we spend enriches somebody's life and then it'll circle back to us. So it's almost like food when we eat. And if you don't want to release it, you're not healthy, you know, because you hold on to the food. I don't want to let go, you know, I don't want to go to the bathroom. I don't want to. I want to hang on to what I ate, which is not a healthy attitude. So you have to eat well and release well. That is the basics of health. And at the same time, for your financial health, receiving money well and releasing money well is the attitude. So when you take a look at your financial life, we are in the flow of money. So to make your money low, happier, more steadily is the key instead of holding on to the money we spend.

You know, money has a certain nature, a certain character, a certain energy about it, doesn't it?

It does.

It does tell us about that.

You know, money turns. Money itself is a neutral energy. But if you think money is God, money becomes God. If you think money is a monster who hurts people. Because we often hurt by money. We think, when we're small, our parents deny our summer schools because of money, or certain dreams are crashed because of money. So money turns into the thing we think it is. So unless you deal and heal our money wounds, our concept and belief about money does not change.

Is money neutral?

You know, when I teach kids about money, I ask them, what is money? So they think it's paper, it's coins, it's a credit card, it's a bitcoin, you know. And then even adults are confused because money is just numbers in Internet world, right? If it's a bitcoin, A friend of mine invested to Bitcoin about five years ago, and now he's worth like $10 million. But it's just the numbers in the bank. One time he lost the key, so he had a hard time recovering the money. So money is just a number. And it's an idea. The money you think you have in your bank account doesn't exist when you go to a bank and ask for cashier to withdraw, it shows up. So money is just a very fuzzy energy and numbers. So when you think of it, we think money is a solid thing, but it's just a neutral thing flowing on in the world and we cannot see it.

This has been talked about much and I've talked about it on the show, Ken, about this idea of is there a certain amount of money that tends to make us happy, that tends to give us a good chance? And I cite an article that I read many years ago, back in the 90s, maybe 25 years ago, and back then now you'd have to, of course, adjust for inflation on this number and also adjust for where you live because the spendability of that money varies significantly based on where you live. Of course, too, not just what point in time, but back then the article said something around, you know, one and a half million dollars, 1.7 million, I think in net worth is the point at which people kind of become like, that's a really good security level where, you know, you have a high likelihood of being happy. More than that doesn't necessarily do much for you. Any less than that it takes away. Right. And certainly, you know, because we have our own agency and we can choose to be happy or unhappy at any level. Right. Just for the general thinking about this, is. Is there a number?

Yes, actually, I. I talked about this in New York with a publisher, editors, you know, and I said, maybe in New York you need at least $50,000 or $100,000.

But what is this? An annual income?

Annual income, yeah. Yeah. But if you live in a countryside, you need probably like $25,000 and you can make a decent life. But I think if you live in North America, for example, I think at least $30,000 or $50,000 will guarantee the basic comfortable level of life. And there's a statistics in North America, if you make from 50,000 up to $90,000, your happiness level goes up. But after $90,000 a year, it will not change so much. And if you make more than $2 million, you'll start feeling more stress because of the money.

Why will the money make you feel more stressed?

Because you get sued by lawyers, other people who seek for money. One time I sat down with my lawyer in New York. She said, I have to be careful because I'm writing a book on money. I asked her, is it like realistic that anybody's going after me? And she said, yes, if your book becomes a bestseller, everybody will follow you with Their lawyers. But if your book doesn't sell so much, they don't care about you. So I think there's some truth to that. If you make more than $2 million, people will start having attention on you.

Fair enough. But I do think you need to make a distinction there, Ken. You know, if you're an author who's a famous author, you know, you're in the limelight. Certainly there are many very wealthy people who are very low key and nobody even knows they're rich. Right. Like Thomas Stanley, the millionaire next door guy. Right? Yes.

I love the book.

Yeah. Yeah, so. And I don't really endorse that book, actually. But, you know, you get the idea. Right. It's because you're in the public eye and, you know, I am because I talk about money. Right. And it's an additional problem for this type of thing. But that's not necessarily true of just the normal person that's got a lot of money. Right, Right.

So I think if you feel comfortable with how much money you make or how much money you have, I think that is the happiness level. So I talk about the concept of money container. We are born with a certain size money container, like Bill Gates. And those people, like, you know, Elon Musk, they're born with bigger money containers, whereas, like, regular people were born with a regular size money container. So if you try to make too much money, it's going to crack. So you have to know who you are and you have to sort of like, accept who you are. And so one time I had a young college student approach me and he said, ken, I want to be more wealthy than Bill Gates, Warren Buffett combined. Do you think I can do it? And I said, yeah, technically you can. But don't go for it because that will probably make you very miserable. Do what you love and make comfortable money that contributes more happiness to you than just, you know, trying to become the richest person on this planet.

The money container concept, I mean, would that be equivalent to saying some people are just more ambitious than others or. What do you mean by that?

Not necessarily ambitious or not. Some people are good with money. You know, Jason, you've seen people. Some people are so, like, have a natural gift around money or finding the right good real estate opportunities where other people, they don't notice opportunities. So something like that. Some people are good with money. It's interesting. I do. I give family counseling, you know, for a family of four or five. And even if you born and brought up in the same family, brothers and sisters can Be so different, so very different. You know, brother is super good at money, but his sister doesn't necessarily do well financially. It's because their gifts are different. And some people become gamblers, others become stingy type of person, which fascinate me because, you know, I think when we were born, certain characteristics are there and of course you can change it, but I think it's with other things like your height and your, your just health and all the hereditary things. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I guess certain things are already decided when you're born, so you can of course change it. But don't stretch yourself too much because it usually kills your happiness and peace of mind.

Well, I certainly agree with you about siblings. I've always noticed they are very, very different. And I think that's just nature's way of diversifying the gene pool. If it's two siblings, they'll be complete opposites. One will be super dependable business person and the other will be a flaky artist type. And, and you know, I guess that's the way of saying the world needs both and not nothing against flaky artists. A lot of them make great art, but you know what I mean.

Yes, exactly. And I think it's almost like there's this irony and also mystery that we tend to marry the opposite side. My wife is an artist, she's a singer. So she doesn't care about money at all. You know, she's a money in different type. And I've given a lot of family a couple counselings too. And I often find out that a guy is a moneymaker, compulsive moneymaker type who marries to a spender type. So they're always fighting because one person, or could be, she is making so much money, but the other loves to spend. So, you know, they always have a hard time paying the bills.

Yeah, yeah. Well, they balance each other out. If one makes a lot of money and the other spends it.

Yes, yes, he does.

Can't be all bad, right? Tell us more. What are some of the other principles of happy money?

So I learned mostly from my mentor, Wahe Takeda, who's called Warren Buffett of Japan. He was one of the wealthiest individual and he was a great investor in real estate and also stock market. And he taught me everything about money. That's why I could achieve financial independence in my early time. And he said the key to money is appreciation. He said, what you appreciate, appreciates, what you appreciate, appreciates.

I like that.

Yes. Arigato in arigato out concept. When Money comes into your life, accept it with appreciation. When money leaves your life, also thank the money for being with you. So by doing this, you start seeing yourself in the circulation of gratitude. And I thought, it's a spiritual practice, but it's not. I divided my clients, consulting clients, into two categories. One, I said thank you all the time and brought some gifts to them. And the other group, I did nothing for the test. Right. And six months later, I got so many referrals when I just took good care of them by saying, thank you so much for the business and brought some small gifts like tea, herb tea and oak and stuff like. Stuff like that. So when you feel somebody appreciated you, you feel good about them, so you want to do something nice to them, you know, back to them. So appreciation is really the key to abundance, and it works miracles. I wrote a book simply on this subject, on appreciation. Yes.

Okay.

Because it really opens doors to new opportunities.

I like what you said about appreciating money when it comes in, but also thanking it when it leaves, thanking it for being with you. That's a really interesting way to look at it.

That's harder. But when you pay something to somebody, that means you're getting some kind of service or goods in exchange for money, but not always.

Sometimes you just get ripped off. Right? That's true.

Yes. Or. But you're getting learning experiences. Yeah. So, like, oftentimes you can appreciate this exchange because at the restaurant, they may serve you or you get electricity for the money, and then you have a choice. You can complain about it, you can thank it. For example, taxes is a big thing. I said, hey, I understand your concept, but I have a hard time appreciating the government because they're wasting my money. And he said, do you have a choice not paying the taxes? I said, probably not, you know.

Right.

So he said, if you don't have a choice, it's your choice. You complain it, you appreciate it. And he said, I know they're not using the tax money. Right. But at the same time, your money is used to payrolls pay for the police, people and hospitals and kids care. So your money is doing some good when it gets handed over to government.

Right.

So since then, I started appreciating about paying taxes. So I'm one of the very few people on this planet who love paying taxes. That means that you made enough money to be able to pay taxes. And somehow the more taxes I started paying, the more income and more opportunities I started to attract. So I don't care so much about Paying taxes or paying bills anymore because it gives me joy.

Right, right. Well, some of that is really good because it's just sort of in a good way. I mean, this like a fatalistic idea of, look, you have to pay them. You might as well be joyful about it to some extent, or at least, you know, not just making it a miserable, miserable experience. Right. Because it's a foregone conclusion. It's done. You know, you either pay them or you go to prison. Right. So you get to pay them. That's true. I remember, you know, when I had my first really good year in real estate when I was 24 years old, I paid the IRS like, $125,000. And I took that canceled check and I hung it on the wall in my office. And, you know, it was just there by my desk right here. And people used to look at it and say, hey, that's a pretty big check. You know, if you adjust that for inflation, that's like $400,000 today. I said back then. And I still haven't done this, by the way, but I've gotten close. My goal was to pay the IRS a million dollars a year, because if I paid them a million, that'd be mean. I'm making 4 million now. The tax rates have gone up since then. Okay. But since then, I must say I've become more critical and cynical about the way the government spends the money.

True.

So kind of funny that you say that. So that's. That's true. What else can you tell us about happy money, Ken? And, you know, maybe anything else you want to share from your work, your other books. I don't want to miss that opportunity to have you share any of that as well.

Thank you. Being on your show is just a bless for me. So I'm not here to sell anything. I'm just here to share what I know about happiness. So if you want to invite more happy money into your life, there are a few things you can do that is to know who you are. I think we are born with a certain gift or gifts. So some people like you are good with money, you're good with people, you're good with numbers. And I think you know how to see the opportunities in real estate market. Right. So if you know that you are gifted in certain areas, take advantage of it, because that will bring you the most money. And then if you have more than enough, start sharing what you have. And the more you share with other people, the more you get. So I think if you can start sharing what you know what you have, Just go for it and just see how different your life would be. So just start searching what you're good at, find your gifts, and then start sharing what you do. So by doing that, you'll be writing, you'll be painting, you'll be consulting, you'll be doing more business. But whatever you do, you'll find yourself with more fun.

Ken, I want to ask you, why is that true, that idea that, you know, Mae west had this saying from, you know, so long ago, Money is like manure. It doesn't do anybody any good until you spread it around a little. Right. I always found that to be a really interesting quote. You know, why is that true? True that when you give, you actually create more. One of my theories about it is that if nothing else, if the law of cause and effect is not true, if the law of karma is not true, or any of that. Right. You know, let's just say it's not right. At the very least, it seems that what it does is you're kind of telling yourself that, look, this is a resource I can just create more of. It's not limited, it's abundant. I can just create more of it. So when I give away, I don't lose it. I just create some more. Why is that true in your eyes?

I think it's because the money you share are seeds that you plant to the society. For example, before I became an author, I started giving away my booklets. So by the time I give away 100,000 copies of my booklets, you know, real copies, I got a call from the publisher, and that's why my first book sold 20,000 copies. And then I could become a author. So by giving something you have, you're almost planting a seed or seeds to your farm or field. And by doing that, you let your seeds grow. For example, for me, I have planted so many seeds, I've given away 2 million copies, which cost me about $2 million US dollars. And by doing that, people thought I was crazy. But by doing that, I was well known. I became well known because I was known for my generosity of giving away. So by doing that, I sold 8 million books, which probably came back to me as $10 million, so five times more. Right? And also I. I made more money by being known that way. So you're almost planting seeds to the world, and then it grows exponentially. That's why I think spreading money or just helping other people or the Chinese businessman and European and Arabic businessmen, they always talk about the same thing and help People succeed. I think there's some truth to that because whatever you do grow.

Yeah. Very, very good. Very interesting, Ken. Give out your website or share any resources you'd like people to know about.

Thank you for asking. You can find all the information at Ken Honda K E N H on the Ken Honda as a car can honda.com There's a free online course available so you can sign up and receive little course on moneyeq. And there are some companies like Mindvalley who just did my online EQ course which is being done by thousands of people. So if you're interested to learn more about that, please join them and I will start translating some of my books. I wrote more than 50 books, so hopefully soon.

Wow, 50 books. That's amazing. We got to have you back to tell us your secret of writing so many books.

Yes, I actually wrote a few books on how to write a book, so.

Good stuff. Good stuff. Well, Ken Honda, thank you so much for joining us and may everybody be happy with their money. Appreciate having you.

Thank you, Jason. You're such a terrific individual. Please keep on just shedding light on people. Thank you.

We will. Thanks Ken. Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. Be sure to check out this show's specific website and our general website, hartmanmedia.com for appropriate disclaimers and terms of service. Remember that guest opinions are their own and if you require specific legal or tax advice or advice in any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional. And we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to itunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you're using and write a review for the show. We would very much appreciate that. And be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.