1834: How To Make Money Off Insurance Claims! Hartman Comparison Index Live In Vegas

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Jason hi, this is Johnny Colin from Arlington, Virginia. Hope you're doing well. I still listen to every episode. I love your show. Your recent shows have just been stellar. Love all the content that you're putting out. Hope things are going well.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new SL on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 1834. 1834. And as you can see, if you're watching, I am not at my home office, my home studio, so forgive me because I don't have the good microphone and all of that good stuff. I'm here at the MGM Grand. They put me up in a beautiful suite. I was a speaker at the Clever Investor Summit this weekend and what a fantastic time. We had 2400 people live and about 4700 people on the live stream. And in seeing this event unfold, of course you learn a lot of stuff when you do things right. That's the best way to learn something is by doing it. And I really saw another way to do live streams at events. So the next time we do a live conference, if we offer live stream, we are going to do it differently. I learned a lot from the way these guys do it and just had a great time. But everybody loved hearing at this event about the Hartman Comparison Index, the hci, which of course is the best way to value property, to value real estate. Because anybody who would compare the value of real estate to only one thing, the US Dollar in this case would suffer from huge, huge blind spots. And they could easily make a lot of mistakes. So we don't want to make mistakes, we want to do things right. We want to use a broad comparison when we're trying to determine the value of anything, of anything, not just income, property. We want to shop, we want to compare, we want to get lots of points of reference so that we have a deep understanding as to what is going on. All right, so a couple things to share with you before we get to our guest today, which by the way, our guest is an attorney who runs a law firm that specializes in helping people get paid on insurance claims. Now, sometimes we talk about really macro oriented stuff. Sometimes we talk about the big picture, sometimes we talk about philosophical things, right? But other times on the show we talk about very specific, granular, tactical things. And that's what we'll talk more about today with our guest. And I want to tell you something. You know, it has surprised me, but this is a good surprise. You know, most surprises aren't always good, right? But this is one of those good surprises that I have seen over the years with my own real estate portfolio. And it is that you can actually make money off insurance claims. I've seen this happen for a lot of our clients over the years. It's happened for me just fairly recently. It happened for me a couple of times just last year. And what do I mean when I say make money off insurance claims? Well, I'm certainly not suggesting any type of shady practices here. You know, insurance fraud is a crime. Never do anything like that. Never do anything unethical. But here's what I am saying. Last year I had a couple of roofs on properties that were right on the verge of needing replacement. And guess what? God blessed me by having a hail storm. I know that sounds kind of funny, doesn't it? And the hail damaged the roof. So guess what? I was able to do an insurance claim and the insurance company paid a depreciated cost on the roof. Now think about it. This was a roof that was nearing replacement time anyway, right? Or a couple of roofs, not just one on, on different properties I owned. And so I was blessed to get the insurance company to really pay for the vast majority of my roof cost. And let me give you an example, okay? And don't quote me on the numbers here because I have nothing in front of me. I'm here at a hotel in Las Vegas. So, you know, I'm not looking at anything. But just from memory, you know, last I remember one of these claims, the roof cost was just over $11,000, I believe. And the insurance covered around, I think that one was like $9,300. And guess what? I sold the property. As you know, I'd been, I moved a lot of my portfolio around last year I did 1031 exchanges, didn't pay a penny in tax, gosh do I love income property, the most tax favored asset class in America. It's fantastic because think about it, with income property, you know, you get to reinvest all your pre tax dollars. You know, if you sell a business, a stock, a mutual fund, anything else, you know you're going to pay tax if you sell cryptocurrencies, if you sell precious metals, anything else except income property because it's beautiful. If you sell it and you have gain, you're going to pay the tax before you get to then reinvest your money. But with income property, thanks to that beautiful, beautiful 1031 tax deferred exchange, you get to reinvest all of those profits. Yes, it's beautiful thing. It's a beautiful thing. Remember, taxes are the single largest expense any of us have in our life. Probably, hopefully not actually, hopefully we've learned how to minimize taxation. But for most people, it's the single largest expense they have in their life. Right? Not for everybody. Not for those who listen to this show and learn from me and the other experts, these CPAs, the tax advisors I have on the show. Because you really want to minimize taxation, it will cost you probably more than anything else in your life. So if you're shopping around for a good deal on a new car, a new house, a tv, a computer, whatever, don't waste too much time doing that. Spend your time learning how to save on life's single largest expense tax. Right? And the government wants you to do this. They're incentivizing you to do this. So why not do what the government is asking you to do. Provide rental housing to people. Provide housing. It's a great thing. But yeah. So we're going to talk about insurance claims and really I think you'll, you'll enjoy our guest today as we get into that. But first, as, as almost always, I want to share a few things with you. So let's look at a couple of things. So I saw this on my Facebook memories. Now this is something that I posted back February 15th of 2015. So about 7 years ago I posted this and it came back up and I love it because fake book memories. As much as I love to hate Facebook because you know, they're evil and censorship and yada, yada, yada. Right? But, but this is just such a great reminder. Now this was 2015 and here I was promoting a property we had that we eventually sold to an investor. But check this out. This property offered a 13 cash on cash return. Now of course, these are the Performa projections. It offered a 46% projected overall ROI, and it was only $80 per square foot. Okay, $80 per square foot. This is amazing right now. Here's what's amazing about it. Here's what I really want you to know about this property, okay? What I really want you to know is that at the time, at the time we were recommending properties like this one, people were worried. They were worried that we were in a real estate bubble. They were worried that, oh my gosh, you know, coming out of the Great Recession. It's been seven years since the Great Recession. My God, are things going to crash? Is the bubble going to pop? Prices have been running up, and guess what? It didn't crash. We had some ups and downs. There were definitely some down times in the market. I mean, you know, before Trump got elected, the market was definitely cooling off. People were, you know, getting worried. They were getting worried that prices were too high, that the mortgage payments were too high, that affordability was too low. They were getting worried about all of this stuff, right? They were getting worried about all of that. But guess What? This is 80 bucks a square foot, this house. Okay? Imagine if you were one of the people who purchased this property when all the naysayers were saying, oh, my gosh, you know, it's been seven years that prices have been running up coming out of the Great Recession. Are we in a bubble? Are things going to crash? Yada, yada, yada, right? They all say that. They always say that. The point I'm making is that everyone always now, you know, it's a figure of speech. So I guess there's. I'm sure there's an exception. But most of the time, people always feel that they are overpaying. People always feel that they might be in that game of musical chairs when the music stops and they're left standing, right? And the greater fool theory of real estate ends, you know, and the greater fool theory says, no matter how much I pay for this property, some greater fool will come along and pay more. But again, we're not interested in investing in cyclical markets. We like these good, solid, linear markets that are cash flow oriented. So we're never in a position where we're forced to sell a property. We believe in sustainable investing, right? That's what I teach. And so this is just conservative, simple investing. But the person who purchased this property, and I don't know which one of our investors actually ended up buying it offhand, I should actually find that out and get them on the show for a case study. You've heard many case studies of our investors on the show over the years. Right. And, and their stories. But this person made way more money than this. Way more money than was projected on the Performa. Right. And you know, it always takes a certain amount of courage to do things. That's just life. Life is risky. Look, all investments have risk. Nothing is guaranteed except death and taxes, as the old saying goes. Right. Anyway, you know, I just want to point that out to give you some perspect on that. Okay, let's just look at. Well, you know what, I gotta get to our guests. I always, I always go too long on these intros. Okay, but let me share that on Wednesday. The next episode I'll share. I got a couple other really great charts and graphs regarding interest rates and mortgage payments I want to share with you, but I've got to catch a plane and fly to Salt Lake City and I've got to go film a documentary there. They asked me to be in a documentary about money and the Federal Reserve and all of this stuff. So more to come on that when it's, it comes out. I'll share some of that with you on the YouTube channel or on the podcast. Then I'm actually flying back to Las Vegas to speak at another conference on Friday. I'm, I'm the keynote speaker there and so really exciting for that one. That's about a thousand person conference here in Vegas. And then I, then I head back home. But what else do I want to share before we get to our guests? Oh yeah. I am super excited about our small group Jacksonville, Florida mentoring session on property wholesaling. It is amazing to me how many, even in a, in a blazing real estate market, a blazing economy, how many distressed homeowners there are, people that are facing divorce, people that inherited a property they don't want, people with liens on their properties, with judgments on their properties, people who filed bankruptcy. Yes, I know all of those numbers are lower than at times when the economy is in recession. Right? Definitely true. But there are still deals out there. And if you're interested in a more active approach to real estate investing, and remember, if you're more active, if you're willing to roll up your sleeves and put in a little work, you can get some really great deals. And if you don't have capital to start in your investment career and you want to build some capital so you can build a business, buy and hold long term portfolio. A buy and hold portfolio, which is mostly what we teach. Right. If you want to do that. This is a Great way to make quick money. The slogan for this event is get in, get paid, get out. This is short term stuff, wholesaling, where you're just getting a property under contract and you're selling the contract. You don't have to put any money into it at all. You just assign the contract and maybe you make a quick 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, $40,000. It depends on the property. Sometimes a wholesale deal can make big money, hundreds of thousands of dollars on one deal, potentially sometimes even on more expensive properties, of course. But there's a lot of opportunity to do that. So if you're starting out, this is an ideal thing. If you're already established in your real estate business but want to get some less expensive buy and hold properties, this is a great way to do that. So this is really great for any type of. We need a few more people to greenlight this event. It's just a very small group event. It's three days. Go to Jason hartman.com wholesale that's on the bottom of your screen if you're watching. By the way, that's scrolling across the bottom, that's Jason hartman.com wholesale. And we have arguably the most experienced wholesaler in the country who's been doing it for almost three decades coming to lead this workshop. I'll be there and I can't wait to see you there. And you'll of course get to ask questions of me and I'll talk a little bit too. But mostly my friend Todd is running this thing and we are going to actually be out in the field. The way this works, this event is we're going to have about two hours of instruction and then we're going to jump in some cars together and we're going to go around, we're going to go look at properties, we're going to be in the field, then we're going to come back and maybe have another couple hours of instruction and debrief on how the day went. We're going to do this for three days, folks, and then, you know, we're going to have some meals together, dinners, lunches, etc. And we're just going to have a lot of time to brainstorm and share and just do some great stuff together. Again, this is a really small group, so lots of very, very individual attention. And you can do this in any city. You can do this where you live, you can do it remotely. We just picked Jacksonville because we thought it was a good. And it's a market we're already in, but you can do it anywhere. And that's what you'll learn how to do at this event. So go to jason hartman.com wholesale get signed up, Come and see me in Jacksonville. I can't wait to see you there. So get signed up for that right away. And tentatively we're looking at the weekend of, what is it, the 20th of May, whatever that weekend is right there, like the 20th, 21st three day event, Friday, Saturday, Sunday. Okay. So check that out. Jason hartman.com wholesale and without further ado, let's get to our guests and let's talk about how you can make sure your rights are protected and that you get paid on insurance claims and how you can actually profit from some of those insurance claims as well.

It's my pleasure to welcome Galen here to the show. He is a property casualty attorney. And if you have ever experienced a difficulty, as many people have, with getting insurance companies to pay you, this show is for you. Because insurance bad faith is a big part of the law. There are zillions and zillions of cases on this type of issue. And insurance companies love to collect their premiums. But when it comes to paying, they can be a little stingy with the purse strings. So we're going to help solve that problem for you today. Galen, welcome. How are you?

I'm great. Thanks for having me.

Jason, good to have you on. Where are you located?

So I'm based out of New Orleans. We practice all around the country. But New Orleans has been my home since Katrina.

I bet Katrina was just a huge boon for your business, right?

Yeah. So I was a baby back then. I was in law school, so it didn't help me too much, but it kind of laid the foundation for my entire business. It's where I learned how devastating disasters can be, obviously working firsthand. I did a lot of manual labor because I really couldn't do anything else, frankly. And I also saw kind of the insurance adjustment side and what that really means for people and how important it was. So despite the fact that I wasn't in business at the time of Katrina, it ended up being one of the most formative moments of my life and certainly the most formative moment of my company's life.

Excellent. Well, tell us a little bit about, I mean, am I calling it the right thing? Is it always an insurance bad faith case when there is litigation out of insurance companies that won't pay claims or are there multiple names and multiple causes of action? There probably are. Right?

Yeah. So ultimately, whether there's bad faith or not is a factual analysis and also A state specific analysis. So in some states, there may not even be bad faith. That's very few in other states. Bad faith means different things depending on what the legislature has done or not done. In every case that we file, there are typically two components to the case. There's a breach of contract claim, which is the carrier's failure to abide by their agreements in the policy. And then in most cases, there is also a bad faith claim, which, depending on the state, has to do with the way that the carrier violated their obligations under the policy or under that state's law. And that's bad faith. Breach of contract is the most common. It exists in 100% of cases. We almost never would file a case if the carrier has done everything they were required to under the policy. That would be exceedingly rare. But bad faith is often accompanied by that.

How big is this issue in terms of insurance companies that just don't like paying out claims or paying them out fully?

So there is a lot of speculation on this because go figure. You can't exactly itemize exactly how often someone is underpaid or delayed or denied. However, most industry participants guess that over 95% of claims are either underpaid or delayed.

Do you handle just property related issues with insurance or. I mean, this happens in all sorts of insurance policies, Auto, life insurance, business insurance, anything. Right?

It does. So my focus is on property related issues and things that are attendant to that. So for instance, I'll do business interruption if a building caught fire and as a result couldn't open. Right. But my focus is really purely on property. There are other lawyers that do other pieces of that, and we even have lawyers in our office. Like we have one lawyer that does a lot of life insurance cases. But you probably wouldn't want me to do a life insurance case. Right. It's a different. Whenever you're talking about property, it's a different thing altogether because what I'm very interested in and what I'm hyper focused on is what the building is made of, how the building is constructed, what needs to be done to put the building back to how it was after a disaster and whether the insurance company is paying you to do that appropriately.

And when you say building, this could be a single family home or an apartment building, or a commercial building, or anything. Right.

Anything physical.

Okay, got it, got it. Okay, so tell us a little bit about how this works. And I know you have a couple visuals you want to share for those of you watching on video. For those of you listening on audio, Galen, if You can be sure to tell them what's on the slides.

Yeah, for sure. So the first thing is I think a lot of people are hesitant to hire a lawyer after an insurance loss. And I fully get that. Depending on where you are in the country, you probably hear a lot about tort reform and things like that. This is not what we're talking about. A lot of those tort reform measures are aimed at, rightly or wrongly, aimed at personal injury lawyers, aimed at doctors giving treatment, looking at whether those people should get paid for medical bills that they did not incur, et cetera. We're not dealing with that. We are dealing with people that did not get enough money to fix their home or their business, and if a violation of state law occurred, whether they're entitled to anything else. So what's really interesting about this is we have learned over time that hiring an attorney does appear to work for the vast majority of people. So the Insurance Research Council did a study, and they figured out that on average, people who hire attorneys are likely to see a settlement three and a half times higher than people who don't hire attorneys. That's an interesting number when you take into context what that actually means. The average reason people don't say don't want to hire an attorney makes sense to me. It's financial. Right. It's very simple math. If I need $100,000 to fix my home, I do not want to pay an attorney either hourly or in our case, a percentage of what I recover because I need it to fix my home. But when the numbers bear out differently, it changes the analysis. So if you're going to get three and a half times more money than you can afford to pay some modest percentage to an attorney to recover that. And that doesn't even take into account bad faith or things like that. Right. So it becomes important because it actually changes the factual analysis as to whether you should hire a lawyer or even a public adjuster or anything like that. And I think that's what's really crucial, is most claims are underpaid, but very, very few people seek professional help. And I think it's because they don't know about this.

Okay, so now that you're talking about this, what are your fees typically you get paid on contingency? Are they the typical 33% or 40% if you go to trial, or what's your fee schedule like?

Yeah, so the typical personal injury lawyer charges like a third if they don't file a lawsuit and 40% if they do. That model does not work in our industry. And I'm really proud to say that I'm one of the firms that pioneered a very different model. So we charge 10% if we do not file a lawsuit.

And what if you have to file the case?

If we file the case, it is anywhere between 25 and 40%, depending on the jurisdiction, the difficulty, the venue. So what we're doing is something slightly different than what law firms do. Most law firms charge a third and 40% because that's just the model. And why change it if it's not broken? We don't work that way. We run ourselves like a business because we are a business. So we figure out what it is that we need to charge in order to be profitable after we pay our expenses and our labor costs to function in a specific market. So in some markets, some types of claims, it might be closer to the 40%, and others it's as low as 25%, because we know that we can stay profitable in that market and charge less.

And how many. When you say market, you're talking geographical, right?

I'm talking geographical markets.

Yeah. And how many markets are you in? And do you consider a market a state or a county or what?

Yeah, so I consider markets to be greater metropolitan areas, even some rural areas. So in any given state, there might be multiple markets, but we are physically in.

We have attorneys physically licensed in about 17 states as I sit here today. And we work in almost all 50 states through local counsel or referral counsel. We've been really blessed to be very mobile and very agile. And that's kind of the secret for us to survive in this industry is because what we do is so weather related, right? Well, weather is not consistent by its very nature. You will have consistently bad weather somewhere, but you hopefully, for anyone, wherever you live, will not have consistently bad weather where you live. So we've built our business model around being very, very agile.

And can you go to that next slide so we can unshare the screen after this?

Yeah, sure thing. So, you know, one of the things we see, and this is just a sample case study from a very, very recent residential claim. Often what happens is you file your claim and you receive some very, very, very small sum of money. In this particular case, this gentleman was a victim of Hurricane Ida, which struck in August of 2021, and he received $1,480 for his insurance claim. What was interesting about that is he thought that was reasonable. He figured he would have to come out maybe another thousand dollars out of pocket. But we took A look, and we saw that he had a lot more damage, and we disagreed with those numbers fundamentally. So he ended up achieving a settlement of an additional $60,000. Even so, he was at $61,480. Now, what's also really interesting about this is that did not include bad faith, that did not include attorney fees, and we did not file a lawsuit for that one. So simply by explaining to the carrier that the carrier had missed certain things, and by working with the carrier on this religiously, one of the things we do is we call. We email. I call it professional harassment. Right? And we point out all the things they missed, and we point them out early, and we point them out often. The carrier ended up admitting and agreeing that they owed an additional 60,000. That was enough that this particular client didn't see the merit or reason to go ahead and go forward and file a lawsuit and chase after bad faith. We fully supported that decision.

Okay, great. So you had to hire probably a public adjuster for that, right? Or have some sort of inspection that the client probably paid for to run those fees up, right?

Somewhat. So we have a couple of people in house that perform desk reviews. That's a service that we provide. And then if we have to hire someone to go out, we do it slightly differently than most. If you wanted to hire a public adjuster, you could hire a public adjuster and they would charge you about 10%, typically, depending on your state, right?

10% claim.

10% of the whole claim, including money you've already received, often, which is not ideal. So in that situation, this client would have probably been charged $6,148 by the public adjuster. And there's no guarantee that the public adjuster would actually get any result. Often will go to an attorney later anyway. So at that point, you're paying for a lawyer and you're paying for public adjuster.

Can you tell us, Galen, what is a public adjuster? I mean, insurance companies have insurance adjusters that work for them, right? And then there are these public adjusters. Who are these people? Are they licensed? What are public adjusters? Tell us about that industry.

So at their core, public adjusters are insurance adjusters that are trained to work for policyholders for members of the public. They may or may not be licensed, depending on the state. Every state has their own licensing scheme, and in a couple of states, they are not permitted. For instance, in Alabama, there are no public adjusters because the state of Alabama considers public adjusters to be engaged in the unauthorized practice of law. So they're just not there. But in most states, public adjusters do exist and they do work. They have some advantages and some disadvantages. The biggest advantage is they're accessible to you quickly. And if you're considering hiring a lawyer that doesn't charge the same way we do, that charges more of that traditional a third and 40%. They are way cheaper because they're usually about 10%. In some states they're hourly, but usually they cap it at a certain percentage as well. And their job is to figure out how much you were owed for your loss. And then depending on the state, they can do more or less. Meaning in some states they can advocate, they can work with the carrier, they can try to get the carrier to pay more. In other states, they kind of have to write an estimate and walk away. It just kind of depends on what that specific state lets them do.

And is the public adjuster someone who actually reviews the insurance policy or are they more focused on the physical condition of the claim?

Well, I guess now we're getting into the difference between a good public adjuster and a bad public adjuster. A good public adjuster should absolutely review the policy because policies are complicated. They're not overly complicated, but depending on a definition or a specific provision, classifying damage one way versus classifying damage another way could have a five or six figure net effect. Sometimes a seven or eight figure if it's a big commercial claim. So a good public adjuster is going to read the policy before they even start writing their estimate. They're going to be focused on what that policy says, what that policy allows, and what that policy does not allow. Then they will move towards writing their estimate. A bad public adjuster will go out there, look at the damage, write an estimate and say, okay, I did my job.

Okay, got it, got it. So a public adjuster and are they actually an advocate? The way you answered the question, it sounded like they were actually an advocate, like an attorney. Or are they someone who just sort of gives a neutral empirical estimate of damage, or are they both?

Both. So in most states they are an advocate as well as someone that gives an estimate for damage. In some states they are very limited in what they can do, so they're more of an estimator.

Estimating fundamentally is different than public adjusting. Public adjusting. So the word adjust actually means bringing the claim to resolution. Right. So a public adjuster in their truest form should be bringing that claim to resolution in a way that is favorable for you. An estimator is just putting numbers on paper.

Okay, got it. Got it. Okay, so if someone wants to go that route, do they just go online and look up public adjuster in a certain zip code, for example, or area or city?

I mean, that's a way to do it. Right? The problem with that is that is just like hiring anyone out of a phone book. I guess no one uses phone books.

Anymore, but my mother does.

Well, yeah, I mean.

Someone called the other day and asked if we wanted to advertise in the phone book, and I was incredulous. I just had no idea. But you know, you want a good public adjuster, right? It's just like hiring a lawyer. It's just like hiring an accountant. It's like hiring anyone that's providing professional services for you. You have to think about whether they're qualified, whether they have a good reputation.

Well, let's. Let's assume we get past reviews and we get the right person. I'm just saying, how do you find one? That's my only question.

Oh, yeah. Google or your specific department of insurance, if they license public adjusters, will keep a directory of every public adjuster that is licensed to work in that state.

Okay, got it. Okay, let's move on. Now, what states and how many states do you do business in again?

We actively are licensed in 17, and I think we've handled cases in 48.

Okay, great. And just out of curiosity, give us a sense. And I know this isn't. There's no perfect answer to this, but what states really are good for consumers for the insured, where the outcomes tend to be very favorable for the insured versus the insurance company.

Yeah. So you can almost kind of predict California, New York. California, New York, not as good as you would think. New York is surprisingly not great. But that's because there's so many businesses based out of there. But California, Oregon, Washington. Right. And then you kind of jump down. Texas is actually pretty decent. Louisiana is one of the best in the country, one of the reasons we're based there. Then you jump over to Florida. Florida has been one of the best in the country, but it's slowly getting worse. In fact, right now there's a concerted effort to kind of change the way property insurance works and property adjustment. Then the Carolinas are also pretty good. The greater D.C. area is going to be pretty good as well. And then in the Midwest, you've got Indiana and Illinois are going to be pretty good as well.

Okay, got it. Okay. What else do you want people to know about these claims? One question I think a lot of people are asking, asking Us, what is the smallest claim you'll handle? And then what are some of the larger ones you've handled?

So, including bad faith penalties and, you know, attorney fees, etcetera, we're looking for cases that are in about the $75,000 range or higher. There's a little bit of wiggle room, depending on the jurisdiction, but we found that that's kind of the magic number where the client doesn't feel squeezed for funds to repair their home after they pay us. The example I gave was. You might look at the example I gave and say, that was a $61,480 claim and say, well, what are you talking about? You took that lower claim.

Well, that's what I was going to say. You know, when I say that, when I ask that question, you know, we've got to remember what Galen just taught us, that you may believe your claim is much smaller than it really is.

Right, Exactly. So even that $61,000 claim, if the client had chosen to proceed with the litigation route, that would have been about $180,000 claim. So that was well within. So. So that's a great example where the payout was only 1400 bucks, 1500 bucks. But we actually saw that claim as being far in excess of our $75,000 threshold. So you don't need to be. It's not that you should look at what the carrier pays you. You should. You should just let someone like us look at it, and we'll tell you if we think it's big enough for us to help with.

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