1846: Tax Advantaged RE Investing & Real Estate Q&A, Jason Hartman Answers Your Most Urgent Questions!

This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit hartmanmedia.com I just want to say thanks to you because I would never been able to retire if I hadn't got hooked on to you 10 years ago.

And I really owe this to you.

That I've met my goal, you know.

To retire early and not work for.

The man and kind of be my own boss. And I would never been able to.

Do that had I not.

I guess I was a little discouraged.

10 years ago, but hooking onto your podcast and learning from what you were teaching has made this all possible.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Greetings and good day from Jacksonville, Florida. I wanted to give you a glimpse of the skyline. This city has a pretty great skyline. Very nice. And there were some fireworks across the river the other night. And what am I doing in Jacksonville? Well, you probably know that we just wrapped up hosting our wholesale small group mentoring. First time we've done a small group event like this. If you've been to our conferences, you know, we have 2, 200, 300 people at those conferences. But this one was unique because we really went out in the field, looked at properties, talked to sellers, put signs on properties. We had the bus for two days. This was a three day event, Friday, Saturday, Sunday and just really enjoyed it. Shared a lot of meals and, well, quite a few drinks with our group and I just love seeing Everybody. We had 16 people and it was a lot of fun. We got to share a couple meals every day. On Saturday night, we went out for another nice dinner and rooftop bar afterwards and actually played that heads up game. I've been wanting to play that forever. You know, it's kind of like charades and that was a lot of fun. We had, you know, kind of a big table at the bar and that was really Neat. So anyway, I just want to say thanks to everybody who came out for that. It was just so, such a great event, big success and we really enjoyed seeing all of you. And a couple of you have taken our partner Todd up on his one on one sessions where he's going to fly to your city or any city you choose and do some wholesaling with you. So looking forward to hearing more about those when they happen. I think the first place Todd is going is to Modesto, California, I believe. And that's going to be really great to hear about that one on one. So if you're interested, let us know. Just reach out to your investment counselor. We'll be glad to help you with that. But as you can see, we had a fun time and it was a really interactive tactical event where we really did the stuff right. Unlike theory, I love teaching theory, I love macroeconomics, you know that. But this event was a little different because we really went out and did the thing, you know, and learned how to pick up wholesale properties in a market, how to fill out the contracts, buy contract, the sell contract, all of that stuff. We called some sellers on the phone. Just a neat experience to do the real hands on, roll up your sleeve stuff. So that was a fun time. And thanks again to everybody who came out and made that event so, so fun. Really, really enjoyed meeting all of you, hanging out with all of you, having drinks with all of you is just a really fun time. So, so thank you to everybody who came out to that. Now, you know you've heard me talk about this before. This is an old saying. It's not mine. Well, they say real estate. I say income property because those are different, by the way. But income property is the ideal investment. Why is it ideal? Because that's an acronym. It provides income, depreciation, equity growth, appreciation and leverage. And of course, when we say depreciation, we mean that in a good way because that is a tax benefit. By the way, I'm losing my voice here after this big weekend, so let me clear my throat, okay? Maybe it'll sound a little better now, kind of a raspy voice after this big weekend anyway. But the bonus here, of course is you know what I'm going to say, right, you regular listeners, the bonus to all of these is inflation induced debt destruction. And now more than ever, in maybe anybody's real estate investing career, or maybe even anybody whose listings lifetime, this opportunity is available more than ever. Remember, very few times in history have the official consumer price index inflation statistics, the CPI inflation rate Very few times has that actually been higher than the mortgage rate. And we have that now. It's truly amazing, truly, truly amazing that we have that opportunity. But wait, there's more. As they say on that late night infomercial, it seems better because the real inflation rate is dramatically higher than the CPI rate. And so that means we get paid even more money to borrow, and then we factor in the tax benefits and we get paid even more. And I'm not talking about depreciation tax benefits, I'm talking about simply interest deduction tax benefits. Because remember, whenever we do something, whenever we spend money related to our income properties, the government is of course our partner. And as such, depending on our tax bracket, state and federal and so forth, it gets a little complicated there. But we basically, for most people listening, probably get about a 40% benefit. So that means we're really only paying about 60%, very roughly of the amount. So if we pay a thousand dollars in interest per month and that's what we're writing the check for, we're really only paying in real dollars after tax benefits, about $600. So let's always remember that. But I want to go into those tax benefits a little more because this gets murky when people talk about it. Income property is the most tax favored asset class in America. There's nothing better that I'm aware of than income property as far as a tax favored asset class. And remember, taxes are the single largest expense in most of our lives. And I try to just boil things down to where they're simple to grasp and understand. So I've identified these six categories of tax benefits that I want you to think about. I've never really presented it this way on the show before, so I think this will be helpful to many. So first is depreciation. This is the holy grail of tax benefits. When we acquire an income property, we have to remember we're acquiring two things. We're acquiring the land that the property sits on, of course, and then we're also acquiring the structure, the improvement, the house, the apartment, sitting on that land. And the IRS allows us to depreciate that over 27 and a half years. If it's commercial property, the schedule is longer. So remember, with residential, that tax benefit is about 25% better than it is with commercial property. So that's one thing. And they allow us to depreciate it and get what's called a, what I call a phantom write off or a non cash write off. This is extremely beneficial to us. Extremely beneficial. And that's why depreciation is the holy grail of tax benefits. Expense deductions, number two, expense deductions. So a lot of the expenses. And if you're a business owner, you know this, right? It's a tremendous benefit to own a business or at least be an independent contractor, where you get a 1099 rather than a W2, because you can deduct all sorts of expenses that you would otherwise have anyway. You would have these expenses in your life no matter what, right? You would have a cell phone, right? And you'd have a cell phone. You pay for Internet access at your home, maybe some of your meals and entertainment, travel expenses, office supplies. There's just a whole bunch of expenses that you would already have in your life anyway. But even if you don't have a business per se, say you're an employee, your income, property portfolio becomes a business. It's like a side hustle, right? And so many of these expenses that you, you already have anyway in your life can become deductible to one extent or another. Okay? Now check with your accountant. I am not a tax professional. I am not a cpa, and I'll just say it since I'm talking about this. I am not a lawyer. And none of this can be individual advice. Everybody's individual situation is much, much different. But I'm giving you the concept to take to your tax advisor, to take to your accountant to help you get the biggest benefit, okay? Now, depreciation recapture. This is the thing that sort of comes back to bite people if they don't plan for it. And there are creative strategies that, that you can use, many I've talked about on the show over the years. One of them is the, you know, the monetized installment sale right there. There are many things that you can do to avoid depreciation recapture, not the least of which is the beautiful, gorgeous, incredible, fantabulous 1031 tax deferred exchange. That is an incredible, incredible benefit, the 1031 exchange. So here 1. One thing that people have to remember is it's very hard to calculate the additional return on investment that over the course of your lifetime you can take advantage of with an income property investor on a 1031 tax deferred exchange. And remember, you can't do this on syndication investments. You don't get this benefit. So be mindful of that. And again, check with your tax advisor. But so far as I know, you can't do it. So when you get out of a syndication deal that you invested in, you just Got to pay tax, right? But when it's your own property, when you follow my strategy, when you're a direct investor, you can do a 1031 tax deferred exchange. I've done many, many, many of them. I'm doing one right now. I did several last year. A beautiful thing to defer the gain. And remember when you do that, you're investing pre tax dollars so you get to invest a lot more money in the deal, which is a beautiful thing. So 1031 exchange, huge. Becoming a real estate professional. Number five. Now we've done shows on this over the years. This of course, like everything in the tax code, it's a little complicated, but you can get your head around it. If you, if you want to know more, just go to Jason Hartman.com and use the little search engine there and type real estate professional and take advantage of of this opportunity if you can. It is an incredible thing. It's another one of those sort of holy grails of tax write offs. Real estate professional and number six. And finally for today, there's probably more, but I just wanted to jot down these six real quickly. Cost seg or cost segregation. When you have a property, you can bring the depreciation schedule forward. You can depreciate things more quickly than that 27.5 years that the IRS allows that we talked about because certain components of your property are depreciable on say a five year schedule or a seven year schedule or a 15 year schedule, which means you can get more tax benefits sooner rather than later. Now again, you got to make sure you qualify for all these benefits. But really great opportunities here. Remember the cardinal rule of the time value of money and the way inflation works? I would rather have the benefit today and the cost somewhere in the future. I learned all about inflation from a cartoon character when I was a kid. You know what I'm going to say? Wimpy on Popeye, right? Wimpy's famous saying was I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a hamburger today, right? Or maybe he wanted a cheeseburger. I don't know. I think it was a hamburger. Wimpy, didn't you want a cheese? Cheeseburgers are better than hamburgers, okay? Anyway, the point was is that you get the benefit of the thing today. The hamburger or the cheeseburger. Someone look that up and comment below whether it was a hamburger or cheeseburger that Wimpy was talking about. And you get the benefit today, but you pay in the future. That's a great deal. Especially if you're not paying interest or you are paying interest, but you're not really paying interest because you're delegating the interest responsibility, that interest payment to a tenant. Or better yet, you're borrowing below the rate of stated inflation like you can now, which is really rare. And always, almost always, you're borrowing below the rate of real inflation. So income property is an incredible asset class because it offers so many unique benefits, unlike other asset classes. Okay, now our winners. We've got our $50 gift card winners this week. Well, for last week, I should say. And one of them on the YouTube comments. Just comment on YouTube, make a lot of comments and you'll be entered randomly to pick to get the $50Amazon gift card. Okay, so this one, and forgive me, it's hard to pronounce this one. Shao Wen Hong. Is that how you say that? I don't know. Anyway, the comment was glad to be invested in positive cash flow linear market real estate in these times of volatility in stocks, commodities and cryptocurrencies. Yes, I'm glad you are too. You're following my strategy. Linear markets are what we recommend. So you win the 50 gift card. Go to Jason Hartman.com ask to claim your prize. Just tell us you're the winner because we don't have your email address or anything. So you've got to come to us. Jasonartman.com Ask and claim your gift card and we will send it right over to you. Now. L. Von Mises, I love that, by the way, that's Ludwig von Mises. I know it's not really you because, well, you're not alive, but I love that that's your handle or your screen name because Ludwig von Mises was great. Read books about Mises. And you know, there's a Mises organization, their people have been on our show many times over the years, or the Mises Institute, I should say. I've donated money to them. They, they really have a lot of good material on Austrian economics, free market economics, and all that kind of stuff. So this is an Apple podcast review. You can do either thing or both to increase your odds of winning. Write a review on Apple podcasts, comment on the YouTube videos, and l. Von Mises says great podcast on real estate, personal finance and general economics. So go to jasonartman.com ask to claim your prize. And for today, we're going to take a couple of Q and A questions that I recorded earlier with one of our clients, Gene Morris. Awesome guy. He's purchased several properties through Our network. And let's go ahead and get to that right now.

Okay, this is a great question from Jake. He asked, dear Jason, can you please go into the real estate market and why you think housing prices will remain high or possibly even go up? I understand having low mortgage rates will become very valuable in the coming year and inventory may remain low because people do not want to sell. However, if assets crash and we enter into a recession, there will be a significant portion of the population who can no longer afford the mortgage. Now that'll be forcing them to liquidate the real estate assets. Now, has there ever been a recession in history where U.S. housing continued to climb in price at some point? People who want to purchase a home have already done so in the past two years. How can demand remain high if affordability goes down? Wages, saving and net worth goes down along with living expenses going up? The sentiment just does not seem likely. Can you, can you please elaborate? Also not sure if you have seen the 18 year housing cycle. I'm sure, Jason, this is like you're gonna, you can answer these in your sleep. According to this cycle, 2024 will be the year housing crashes. Yeah, it's interesting. And so Jake's got a couple of charts here. He's got a chart that's showing the 18 year property cycle. So it kind of gradually goes up over 14 years and reaches a peak and then takes about four years to hit a bottom after it crashes and then starts the recovery process. And then he's got another chart here that just basically shows, you know, this looks like interest rates as a function of housing prices. And as interest rates go up, obviously your purchasing power goes down. So your ability to purchase a home. You can't buy those McMansions. You know, you can at 1 1%, but you know, at 10%, it's a little bit more difficult with, with your spending money. Anyway, what do you say, Jason? How are we looking over the next couple of years with, with inventories with people's ability to purchase, especially if we're going into this kind of stagflation area environment where, where prices are going up but you know, wages aren't.

Good question, good question. And you know, I have heard this kind of rationale so many times over the last 18 years of doing this. And it's just funny. I don't know what it's called, maybe a psychologist would, but it's just a funny part of human nature how people sort of box in the thinking like this. For example, like, okay, we go into recession, so people won't be able to afford a home. Well, what does that mean? They act as though the home is like this fixed thing, like a home. Like they're all the same, like they're all the same price or being able to rent it. Like all the places you rent are the same or the same price. No, what will happen is they simply give up their standard of living. That's what declines. So it would be like. And I, I had these great slides, I just made up and shared them yesterday on a different live stream where I was a guest. You know, it was an example of a property in Jacksonville, Florida that was a million dollars and a property in New York City that was a million dollars. And so what happens is it would be like moving from the million dollar home in Jacksonville to the million dollar home in New York City. Okay. In Jacksonville you had like 6,000 square feet or something. In New York City you had just over 600 square feet. Yeah, okay. It was the same million dollars. Right. So it's the same like if you had the same income, it's just what do you get for the income? It's just that's what inflation is. Right. It's like moving from a low cost city to a high cost city. And that's what happens. The standard of living declines. That's it.

That's it.

People still rent some house or buy somehow they just don't have the one they used to have. It was nicer.

So the, the eighteen hundred dollar single family home in York, Pennsylvania now becomes an apartment. You know, you have to move out and you have to go to maybe an apartment or something.

Right. So you've got this, this eighteen hundred dollar a month apartment that it might also be in York, Pennsylvania. It's not like you actually moved, right. But the dollar value moved around you. Right. And, and stagflation hit and so then you're living in a crappy little two bedroom, one bath apartment built in the 60s versus a newer house that was single family with a yard and a two car garage and all that other stuff. Right? So that's what happens. That's what gives. The standard of living is what gives. Okay. It's not anything else. Okay. You know, people just notch down the economic ladder. That's all that happens. I've seen it happen several times throughout my career.

And much like, like the first housing crisis we had in 2008 which ended up in or collapsing around 2012.

Right.

You know, that was a different situation where a lot of folks who just didn't weren't really Necessarily qualified to own those properties.

Totally different.

Yeah. And so that actually opened up a glutton of inventory. I remember as a kid growing up in the Antelope Valley and in the, you know, high desert Cal, you know, in California, man, there was just houses everywhere, vacant houses everywhere. And that was because of those, those turbo loans and stuff. Those things that just those robo loans were.

Yeah.

You know, and, and this is a different scenario right now. It's just the, the prices of housing and they're not building as many, many houses anymore because of the cost of them because of inflation.

So. Yeah, well, remember what I presented at rcl? It was inventory showing that we basically need to see a 3 to 500% increase in inventory just to get normal.

Yeah, not going to happen.

Okay, so how many homes you have to build and how much demand has to fall off for inventory to increase that much? Right. And that's only to be normal. Normal kind of market. Right. To have an excess of inventory where we're really in a housing recession, you know, you would have to go up to six to eight times at least the amount of inventory we have now. So a 6 to 800% increase in inventory. Okay, then we got a problem. Now, you know, I think the coast is pretty clear, barring World War three or, or something else crazy like that. A pandemic. Oh, we have that. You know, I think for the next couple of years, I think we're looking pretty strong in the housing market, you know, and I wish it would cool off. I, I do not like this type of market. It's.

Yeah, it's gonna be hard for, for a guy like you who's businesses. Yeah, totally. Totally makes sense. Okay, cool. Let's move on to the next one. Here, this one's from Eric. Eric asks, hey, Jason, when evaluating a property, what do you consider a good cash on cash return? What do you consider a good total return on investment? And when calculating your total return on investment, would you be more cautious if the number was driven by the price property price appreciation assumptions? Do you factor in price appreciation? Yeah, like 5% or 6%.

6%, yeah, that. That's all we allow our local market specialists to put on those performas. You know, that's, that's sort of the national average over a long time. But of course there are better years like last year, where you could do 17 to 22%, you know. But what, what was that part of that question at the end? Say that again. I can't.

Oh, yes. So when evaluating a property, what do you Consider a good cash on cash return.

Yeah. Okay, so, so cash on cash, you know, right now those have been compressed dramatically. Okay. Cap rate compression, cash on cash compression, all of that stuff in this market. So right now, you know, if you got anywhere and depending on the quality of property and the quality of the area, if you got from, you know, 6 to 8% cash on cash, you'd be doing pretty good. Okay. You might only get 3% cash on cash, but still you can make a fortune because the properties are appreciating so quickly. But again, appreciation will not last forever. Okay. There will be a correction at some point. Who knows when? That's anybody's guess. But just note the inventory as the inventory rises a lot. And remember, it's got to be between three and five times increase to get normal. You know, when you start hearing these media reports, which I'm sure you will, at some point, inventory is increasing. What are we going to do? Well, compared to what? Yeah, okay.

I guess it would have to be a really devastating jobs market. Like the economy would have to get so bad, people would have to get so desperate that they have.

And we've got the complete opposite of that right now.

Yeah, yeah. What do you consider a good total return on investment?

Okay, so, so to answer that one question though before, okay, so in our performance, if you look@jason hartman.com and you go to the properties page, you'll see these performers that lay out all the numbers for you. And we only allow them to put a maximum of 6% appreciation projection in there. Okay. And that's pretty darn reliable over time. Some years you're going to give some of that back, some years you're going to gain more. But averaging it out, you know, call it 6%, I think you're pretty safe. And then an overall return on investment still, those overall return on investments are still looking pretty hearty. Okay. 20 to 25% overall return. Remember, income property is a multi dimensional asset class. So you earn your return in many different ways. If it's precious metals or cryptocurrencies, the whole game is buy low, sell high. That's it. That's the whole strategy, that it's all there. Right. If it's stocks and they don't pay dividends, buy low, sell high. If they pay dividends, buy low, sell high, get some dividends in between. Right. You know, these are pretty simple. Multidimensional is real estate. And that's why those returns really aren't that high. If you know how to do the math and you know that income property is the most historically proven asset class in the entire world. And we all know many, many people, if not the person looking in the mirror, who have become very rich with income property. So it works.

As one of Jason Hartman's listeners, you will have heard him encourage you numerous times to be a student of history, to always look for that invaluable context, that historical backdrop in which to frame everything to give you a more complete picture of the world today through the lens of history. So why look backwards? Because history is replete with examples of countries enjoying shocking levels of prosperity to then later transform into basket cases decades later. That's how civilizational cycles work out. But it's not just confined to the West. The African continent has had its fair share of once economically prosperous countries turning into dumpster fires. At one point, Zimbabwe was viewed as Africa's breadbasket and one of the few countries that appeared to transition out of its predecess previous colonial status without many hiccups. So what exactly can Zimbabwe teach investors about jurisdictional diversification? Led by Prime Minister Robert Mugabe From 1980 to 1987, Zimbabwe was breaking the mold as one of Africa's success stories. Although Mugabe was marketed as a revolutionary, he was rather pragmatic in his economic stewardship of the country. During his early, early years in office, Mugabe maintained many of the features that made Zimbabwe's predecessor state, Rhodesia, prosperous. However, he always had a radical agenda up his sleeve, but generally concealed it in his initial years of power. It wasn't until Mugabe became president in 1987 that the country began taking a different path. But things started changing. Towards the start of the 21st century, Mugabe began pursuing ambitious land reforms that ruffled the feathers of many elites and upwardly mobile economic actors. He met a roadblock in 2000 when voters rejected Mugabe's efforts to confiscate white owned farms at the polls. But Mugabe was not deterred. He relentlessly pushed for land confiscation and was able to get his wish of expropriating the land holdings of white property owners by using political and paramilitary means. Mugabe ended up confiscating 23 million acres of land without any form of due process or compensation. But Mugabe didn't stop there. He pursued an inflationary monetary agenda by turning the Reserve bank of Zimbabwe into a personal printing press that suited his political needs. The monetary policy Mugabe carried out was the most hyperinflationary in recent memory. For example, hyperinflation reached cartoonish levels of 79.6 billion percent in 2008. After thoroughly trashing the value of the local currency, Zimbabwe had to embrace dollarization and turn to outside currencies such as the dollar and the African rand. Even worse, Mugabe's government attempted to fight inflation in the most futile manner possible through its implementation of price controls. This policy has been an abject failure everywhere it's been implemented, from ancient Rome to present day Venezuela. The price controls only worsened the existing shortages and accelerated Zimbabwe's economic debacle. Mugabe was eventually deposed in a coup in 2017. At that point in time, 70% of Zimbabweans were living in poverty and the country's economic output had plummeted by half since 2000. On top of that, real per capita income had fallen by 15% since 1980. Mugabe's successor, Emerson Nangagwa, is still facing inflation problems, with inflation presently hovering around 60%, a marked decline from previous years, but still an alarming level of inflation. What you can learn from the Zimbabwean case study is that political jurisdictions can be stable one day and go completely haywire the next. While the US is far from descending into Zimbabwe status, there are states that are much more economically stable than others. So you must always plan accordingly when settling down in one area. America has 50 states that vary not only in terms of their cost of living and housing arrangements, but also in their political profiles. This carries over into how housing is regulated. Generally speaking, although there are a few exceptions, pro business states tend to be more landlord friendly. So if you're dealing with a deadbeat tenant, you can evict them in states with higher degrees of economic freedom. Think along the lines of states such as Texas or Florida. So let's not forget the invaluable lessons that history has given us. When you look back at your own history, make sure your story is a success. For more information, visit Jason hartman.com.

So George Gammon, Jason Hartman and I, we've created a high level mastermind group called the Collective. The goal of the Collective is for you to learn from the three of us as well as of course the other members on how to build and more importantly, how to maintain your wealth. In this video we're going to go into detail about what the Collective is and what it can do for you. Enjoy. So, I'm Ken McElroy. I've been in real estate for over 30 years. Started with a two bedroom, two bath using my own money and now I own over a billion dollars worth of real estate that I bought over the years. Built a big company we have a construction company, a development company, a property management company, and of course an investment company. And typically now we syndicate and work with large, both private and public institutions for the equity and the debt. And so what I bring to the collective is how to scale, how to grow. Starting with one really small property with no experience at all and growing it into an organization which I've been able to do that basically runs almost without me. So that's what I'm going to bring to the collective. We decided to start the collective because one I met George Gammon and George brings a very interesting perspective about the economy and the Fed and the way money works and Bitcoin and alternative types of investments, which quite honestly I was super focused on real estate almost the entire time and even I want to be a little bit more diverse. So when I talk to George and to Jason, they're always doing very, very different things. On the investment side, Jason specifically is more focused on the single family housing and what's going on in that market so that we could collaborate and have different viewpoints on different things. And so that's why I thought the collective would be good because I think everybody's kind of searching for the same, same kinds of answers. So the collective means to me basically the collective group, the whole. And I've always been a big believer of team and collaboration. So for me it, it really means collaboration of everyone kind of coming into a room and learning from each other based on their individual highs and their individual lows and to be very, very respectful of all their independent views on things and to be more open minded, transparent and authentic. So I cannot wait for the group to get together each and every quarter because we all have very different walks of life that we're going through. And so it's very, very cool to get into one room with like minded people. I think the right person for the collective is somebody who's into personal development, somebody who's trying to be a better individual, somebody who's trying to have that work life balance, trying to figure out good decision making on the investment side specifically good decision making on the personal side perhaps certainly on their health and on their wealth. The members that have already signed up are people typically that have businesses that they're growing, businesses that they've started or businesses, businesses that they've sold. So typically they're higher net worth and they're trying to figure out what to do with their money. They're probably a little bit afraid of inflation, they're probably a little bit concerned about where to invest. And they're obviously looking at real estate as one component, somebody that's trying to do the right things both on the personal side and on the financial side. So some of the experiences that members can expect to get out of the collective are certainly the network and I think that's always super powerful. I've been involved in groups like this before like EO and ypo, the Entrepreneurs Organization, and ypo, which is Young Presidents Organization, which is kind of a peer to peer network. And I that's what I envisioned and I think people are going to certainly get that out of there. They're going to have lifelong friends for sure from this, and they're going to meet people at every single event. It but also we're going to have fun. So as an example, things like race car driving and doing all kinds of really cool things and meeting celebrities and things like that and fashion shows are going to be part of it. So it's kind of a how do we have fun and learn together? And we're going to have that at each and every event. So thanks for watching. If you guys are interested, there's a link below you can click on. It'll take you right to the website, which has a load of information on exactly what the Collective is, where the next events are, and what exactly you'll be getting if you become a member.

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