186: Shot Down: The True Story of Pilot Howard Snyder and the Crew of the B-17 Susan Ruth by Steve Snyder

Welcome to the Heroic Investing Show. As first responders, we risk our lives every day. Our financial security is under attack, our pensions are in a state of emergency. A single on duty incident can alter or erase our earning potential instantly and forever. We are the heroes of society. We are self reliant and we need to take care of our own financial future. The Heroic Investing show is our toolkit of business and investing tactics on our mission to financial freedom.

Welcome to the Heroic Investing Show, a podcast for first responders, members of the military, veterans and anyone looking to improve their financial future and gain some freedom with their time. We teach America's heroes how to build passive income, build their startup business and safely grow wealth through real estate and other alternative investments. We help current and prior first responders put protections, systems and a team in place to help them build a life where they can focus on their passion, that service or product that they are uniquely gifted to share with others, making the world a better place for all of us. My name is Gary Pinkerton and I co host this show with Jason Hartman. This is episode 186 for you history buffs out there and those that love literature and love a good book. We're back to back with two authors this week. We have Steve, Steve Snyder. Steve and his wife live in Pasadena, California. Steve was a career salesperson, salesman and had quite a storied career himself. After retiring, he picked up, in a very interesting turn of events, picked up a new mission and that was to research and write a book about his father, Howard Snyder, who was a B17 pilot. Their aircraft was named the Susan Ruth and his book is called Shot Down. So he's an author and a speaker, travels the country speaking on this topic. But he's written one book, unlike our previous guest, Shanna Hogan, who has covered many subjects. But Steve's story is tremendously amazing. Actually. His father's story and that of his crew in evading capture by the Germans in World War II for months and months, some of them longer than others, but most did survive when they were shot down over Europe. And a lot of it had to do with interacting with the locals, being taken in and protected by them. He goes through that story. He goes through actually a discussion with the pilot that shot down that plane. So you can imagine he has years of history, years of effort put into cobbling together all of the information in this book. Fascinating book, fascinating story. I think you'll enjoy this a lot. Please join me and let's talk with Mr. Steve Snyder. Well, heroic investors, welcome back. And I think you're really going to enjoy this episode. I have with me today Steve Snyder and Steve Hales from Southern California. He'll talk a little bit about his earlier years and then we're going to jump into now his passion in life and the thing that consumes him in life, which is talking about, speaking about and distributing a book that he had written about his father, Howard Snyder. He was a pilot in World War II, B17 pilot and was shot down. I don't want to steal the thunder here. Steve, thank you so much for joining us.

My pleasure. I'm glad to be here. Thank you.

This is wonderful. So tell us, go back a few years, what you were doing before and how you ended up writing this book.

I was born in Pasadena, California, home of the Rose bowl, and I grew up in Southern California. I lived all my life in Southern California. I graduated from UCLA like my mother did. During my career, I was involved 40 years in sales and sales management. The last 36 years were with a company called Vision Service Plan VSP, which provides vision care as an employee benefit that corporations offer their employees. Eye exams, glasses, contact lenses. And then I retired from that company in 2009. And that's when I had the time to really delve into my dad's war history in more detail. At that time, I had no intention at all of writing a book. I just wanted to go through all the material that my parents had kept from the war years to learn more and get more detail. Growing up, I knew the basics of my Dad's World War II history. A B17 pilot, he was stationed in England with the 8th Air Force. He flew bombing missions over occupied Europe and Germany. And in 1944, he and his crew were shot down. And he was missing in action for seven months. But he evaded capture and eventually made it back to England. But there were two items that were really significant. One was all the letters that my dad wrote to my mother while he was stationed in England. Reading. Those were absolutely fascinating. He was very candid. In those letters. He talked about bomb emissions, what life was like on the base, what life was like in England and London at the time, escapades of him and his crew. And then the other item was a diary that my dad wrote while he was missing in action about his plane being shot down, which was absolutely riveting. And it just became my passion. I started reading book after book about the air war over Europe, went on the Internet, spent countless hours doing research, downloading declassified military documents, joined a number of World War II organizations, listening to veterans tell their stories. And finally, after three years into my research, I just came to the conclusion that the story of my dad and his crew was so unique and so compelling that it needed to be told, people needed to read about it. So I decided to write a book. Wow.

So your research obviously took you to Europe, where these things happened and how much travel. So obviously you traveled around the U.S. how many people did you interview and who did you meet that knew your father?

Well, I've been to Belgium five times. The first time was in 1994. I actually went with my parents and that's when it became personal for me because my dad and his crew, they were shot down over southern Belgium, just north of the French border. And that area of Belgium is very rural farmland. And nothing's really changed in hundreds of years. So lots of the houses where he was hidden in are still there today. I was fortunate enough back in 94 to meet a couple of the Belgian people that hid him during the war. They're all gone now. That was a really unique experience. But I got lots of information, naturally from my dad and from the other members of the crew that survived. B17 had a 10 man crew. Five of them came back home, my dad's crew, but five of them did not.

Did they pass in the crash or.

Well, they were attacked by. It was on a bombing mission to Frankfurt where they dropped their bombs successfully, but their bomb bay doors got hit by flak and they couldn't get them back up. And as a result, that caused a drag on the plane, they lost airspeed and they fell. They started lagging behind the formation, the B17 formation, heading back to England. And they were singled out by two Focke Wulf German fighters in the ensuing air battle. My dad's plane was named the Susan Ruth after my oldest sister, who was one year old at the time he went overseas. But two of the crew members were killed in the plane and then the other eight were able to bail out successfully. And of those eight, three were killed on the ground about three months later. So five of them made it back. Something. And in the book's just not about my dad, but it's about each member of the crew because something different happened to each guy. And it's also about the amazingly brave Belgian people that risked their lives trying to aid those downed airmen.

Yeah. And did they find people who, maybe not even just airmen, but soldiers other than their crew that were doing the same thing? Did they find a whole network of people or was it just not worse?

Well, some of them did. Some of them didn't. After my dad bailed out, he came down in some trees and his parachute got hung up in the trees and he was dangling 20ft off the ground and couldn't get down. But fortunately for him, a couple young Belgian men came to his rescue before the Germans got to him. They helped him out of the tree and it was about 1 o' clock in the afternoon. They told him to stay there because it was too dangerous to move him in daylight with the Germans roaming the area. So they came back that night, took him to a local farmhouse. He stayed there one night and they thought it was too dangerous for him to stay there any longer than that because of those German patrols. Then after that, he was moved around from place to place to place. He might spend one night in a house, he might spend six weeks. It all depended on how brave the people were who lived there and how dangerous the Belgium Underground thought it was for him to stay there. And he made some dear friends with some of the people that he stayed with lengthy periods of time and kept in touch with after the war. But as I said, he was missing in action for seven months and eventually got tired of hiding. It was very stressful being in hiding. First of all, his plane shot down, it's on fire, he has to bail out. He comes down in a foreign country, has no idea where he is, he doesn't know what happened to the other his buddies on the crew. He's being helped by people that he doesn't know who they are. They can't speak the same language, they really can't communicate to begin with anyway. And any of those people might be a collaborator and turn him over to the German secret police, the Gestapo. And there's a number of instances that are described in the book where he was almost discovered. But finally he got tired of being of hiding, so he decided to join the French Resistance and start sabotaging German convoys. That's pretty exciting. There's a number of encounters that the French Resistance group he was with had in attacking the Germans.

This is a Hogan's Heroes episode here.

Yeah, it's hard to. You know, they say truth is stranger than fiction, and really this is. But.

So you mentioned some of his crew.

Member did hook up with other downed airmen, but as I said, you know, something different happened to each guy.

Sure, sure. Now, you mentioned before we started recording that one unique twist of this is that you found the gentleman who shot him down, right?

Well, actually, I mentioned they were attacked by two German Focke Wulf fighters. Both of those fighters were shot down in the air battle. One was piloted by Siegfried Merrick. His plane crashed and he died. But the other one was piloted by Hans Berger, who bailed out and made it through the war. Actually, the gunners on my dad's plane shot Hans Berger down. So they shot each other down. While I was doing my research one day my wife casually asked me, well, why don't you try to find the German pilot that shot down your dad's plane? Which at the time I thought was kind of a. I didn't tell her this a stupid idea, you know, how am I ever going to do that? She didn't really know what she's talking about. But like a good husband, I did what she told me to do. And lo and behold, I found Hans Berger and fortunately for me, became a translator after the war. So he speaks perfect English and he gave me some wonderful insight that's in the book about what it was like to go up against the atheist air force during world two. Hans is still alive today. He's 95 years old, lives in Munich, Germany, and we've become friends.

Wow. Incredible. Well, what did your father do after the war?

He did a lot in Pasadena for 10 years where he was also the chef. And then he sold that and he got into sales and he sold a number of different things after that. But he ended his career really involved in what's called AcroStamp Machine Co. Back in those days. I don't know if some of your listeners will remember the old trading stamp days where you got blue chip or S and H green stamps when you went to the market. Well, he was in sales and then he actually owned the little company that made these stamp dispensers. They dialed like a telephone. And he sold those to grocery chains throughout the United States and gas station chains. And then he retired from that. And then after he retired, he moved to Sedona, Arizona. So he did quite a few things after the war.

So the stamp machines, that was like points, right? Like getting points on your credit card nowadays, I think.

Yeah, yeah. Those stamps, you'd paste them in booklets and then you'd redeem them.

I remember this.

Yeah, I remember doing that big deal back in the, I guess, 60s and 70s.

Yeah, yeah, I remember doing that. So that's quite a memory. What are some of the other unique aspects of that, of that journey you went on?

Well, there's several things. One I have to mention, though, that I probably wouldn't have written a book if it wasn't for two Belgium gentlemen, Dr. Paul Delahaye and Jacques Hallot, who were young boys during the war, and they saw the atrocities that the Nazis committed against their families and friends. They were there and it affected them greatly. And later in life, they became local historians and they interviewed all these Belgian people and members of the Belgium underground who were involved in the events concerning my dad and his crew. And they documented their testimony and they provided me with unbelievably detailed information about events that took place that would have been lost forever without their dedicated research. For anyone that reads the book, there's an amazing amount of detail. When I was writing the book, sometimes I'd think people are going to read the book and they're going to go, well, how the heck does this guy know all this detail? These events happened 70 years ago. But the book's all based on firsthand testimony by the people who were involved in the events that took place. There's over 200 pictures in the book, too. Time period photographs, many, many taken by Belgian people in Belgium during 1944. So you can visualize everything that you're reading about, which is pretty unique.

That's fantastic. You told me that the book had won numerous awards. Talk about that a little.

The book was released in August of 2014. It's won, I guess, about 30 awards now. It's a five star rating on Amazon. I make PowerPoint presentations to all sorts of different organizations throughout the US and I go to air shows around the US signing copies of my book. And that's really gratifying because I get to meet so many people to tell the story and hear their stories, and that's a lot of fun. I guess you can kind of tell from the way I talk that I'm pretty excited about this whole thing. My passion is inspiring and I love doing it. It's changed my life. I retired from VSP in 2009, and for a while I was just, I guess, a typical retiree, taking naps and sleeping in late and taking walks and reading. And now I basically work full time promoting my book and being involved in the book. It's really fun. I don't know how long I'll continue to do this, but as long as I'm having fun, it's great. I get to meet lots of veterans, World War II veterans, so that's very rewarding as well.

Yeah. Isn't it amazing when you find a passion, how much it changes just your outlook and your work ethic, and I just think it's fantastic. I talk to people about this all the time, that when you find something you love to do, it's better across the board. You're healthier, you're more active, your mind is going right. You're not on the list anymore of those that are going to get dementia.

Because you're just active.

Yeah.

That's fantastic. Gosh. Does your wife travel around with you until a lot of these?

Well, if I go to certain places, if I go to New Orleans or New York or Savannah, she'll go with me. But if I go to smaller cities in the Midwest, go. You just go by yourself. So if they're kind of destination, she'll go with me. But that's fair. She just lets me go. I traveled about. Oh, Gosh, the last 25 years I was involved with DSP. I traveled about 50% of the time. So she's used to be being gone, so I'm really just traveling a lot again. When I first retired, she was worried I was going to get in her hair and be under her feet all day.

Sure. Of course, you've had an opportunity to meet so many incredible patriots that were America's. You know, they call them the greatest generation. Right. So what can you take away from people of that era? How would you characterize?

Well, without a doubt, in my opinion, they were the greatest generation. Well, at the end of World War II, there were 16 million veterans. And today they're less than 4% of those men still with us. And they're diminishing at a rapid pace. There was no other event in history that affected more people than World War II. 60 million people died. Millions more were wounded. Millions more were left homeless and displaced. Those brave young men who fought and died for freedom, like I said, are the greatest generation. And we can never forget their sacrifice. My motto is, it's our duty to remember. And, you know, it's 75 years since my dad was shot down and those memories are kind of fading. And really I look as kind of my job or my passion is, you know, the book. But it's also to remember, honor and educate. To remember the air war over Europe, to honor the men who fought it and to educate the public about it, especially younger generations, because, you know, we just can't forget those times. They. A lot of people don't realize that at the beginning of the war, it was really touch and go whether we were going to be able to win that war. And the world, the course of the world and the US was changed forever as a result of World War II. The younger generations, I think I Don't know how much they get taught this in school, but they just need to be reminded and educated about it.

Yeah. Take a little bit for granted. Right. So people who are my age know somebody. You know, I had uncles. Well, my father had six members of his family, six boys in his family, and all of them went to World War II. They spread the gamut of the services. And one was at the Bataan Death March, and he was gone for quite a few years. I don't know how long it took to find him and get him back, but he never really talked about it. My father talked about the war a bit, but. Yeah, I mean, all of my uncles were in that war. That is not an experience that people get nowadays.

And you made a comment that's so true, because most of World War II veterans did not talk about the war. And my dad didn't talk about it a lot until 1989, when a memorial was built in the little village of Mackinaw's, Belgium. And my dad and the three other crew members that were living at the time went over for the dedication, and there he was reunited with all those Belgian people that hit him during the war, revisited those homes, and that brought it all back, and that's when he started talking about it. But most of the people that I talked to know very little about their vet because they didn't talk about the war. And when most of us were young, we're interested in doing our own thing and we don't ask questions. And then when we finally realize or become interested, then our vet's gone. So most people don't know much about what their vet did during the war, whether it's a son, daughter, grandchild, nephews, what have you.

Yeah, well, and that's sad, but thankfully, people like you are writing books and movies and articles and keeping photos around, and that is going to be a very important part as time sets on. Our last greatest generation out there.

Yeah. Pretty soon they'll be all gone, and that'll be a sad day. I'm in the process of trying to make a documentary about the movie. Gone to and filmed hours and hours of footage in Belgium. And I've also gone to Munich, Germany, where Hansberger lived and filmed an interview with him. So hopefully that will come to fruition someday.

Wow. But you've at least captured it. That's awesome. Gosh. Well, Steve, thank you so much for joining our group. Any other suggestions or last thoughts, please also give your website.

Okay, well, My website is stevesniderauthor.com and you can get an autograph book if anyone's interested in that by going to the homepage of my website. But it's available on Amazon as well, and it's available as a print book, soft hardcover, ebook, and also as an audiobook. Although the audiobook doesn't have any pictures, so you miss out on almost 200 time period photographs as far as last thoughts are concerned. As I said, it's a project that I love and I had no idea when I retired that my life would change so dramatically as a result of writing this book. But as you mentioned, once you get involved in something that you're excited about and passionate about it, it just really makes your life exciting. You get up every day ready to go and just ready to do more and more and more. It really motivates you to keep going in life.

Yeah. I mean, you're a testament to continue searching for that thing that is your passion. Right. That thing that defines meaning in your life. That's pretty awesome.

Well, Steve, you might never know what it is.

Right? Right. Don't die with music inside. Right. I think your music's coming out.

Well, thank you so much, Steve, for joining Heroic Investing.

Oh, well, it's my pleasure. Thanks a lot for having me on.

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