188: Everyday Millionaires with Chris Hogan

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My name is Gary Pinkerton and I co host this show with Jason Hartman. This is Heroic Investing, episode 188. Today I have the distinct pleasure of interviewing financial radio host and best selling author Chris Hogan. We talk about his new book Everyday Millionaires. Chris is maybe not well known by many of you, but his partner is. Chris has been the longtime partner and radio host with Dave Ramsey and Dave did the forward to Chris's book. So how did I end up here? Because I will tell you that this is not consistent with my current thinking of happiness and financial wealth and abundance. But it used to be his book Everyday Millionaires is a follow on or a kind of a refresh or what has changed since the original very, very.

Popular book came out called the Millionaire.

Next Door and that was written by Thomas Stanley and William Danko back in 1996.

I remember reading that book when I.

Was a really young guy. I've always been fascinated with personal financial management and what makes you successful in this world as a member of the middle class. And that had a big impact on me. And it wasn't just until a few years ago when people like Robert Kiyosaki started telling me that this is bad, bad advice for people who are in my situation or in the situation that I found myself. And I started, you know, more critically thinking about it. And so it led me to really kind of following a different camp from where I was 20 plus years ago and where I spent most of my time in the military and where I think most Americans still are. I've learned a couple of really good things from Robert Kiyosaki. From first, he taught me that every coin has three sides. It has a heads, it has tails, which is the opposite. And then it has the edge and standing on the edge. You can hopefully unemotionally and without prejudice, consider both sides of an argument, consider both sides of a discussion and then make a decision, your own decision based on having unemotionally, appropriately considered both sides. And I've learned a tremendous amount of with that. I've gone into a lot of situations throughout my life with preconceived notions with prejudices and haven't really listened to the other side of the discussion and have come out worse for the wear. And so I really recommend that you do the same. And that's the approach I took with this book. So how did I end it up here to begin with? Well, I had a very good friend and I have a really good friend, and he sent me a copy of the book and he said, this book was tremendous. You should read this book and then have the author on the show. Well, spoiler alert. I agree with you. I agree with him. I did exactly what he said because I believe in him. I also believe in Robert Kiyosaki and that message. And when I looked at the book and I read the kind of takeaways, I thought, oh, my gosh, this is not the guy that I am. This is not the guy that I think my audience, the people that my audience represent. However, thinking of the side, the edge of the coin, thinking I could learn something, I took on that challenge. And the spoiler is that I agree with him.

There are some really, really good lessons.

And good messages in this book I'd like to also take a moment and talk about. And during our discussion, we also bring up the things that I think maybe is not the full story or is not in proper context within the book. And so I'd like to just kind of go over a few of those. The second thing that I learned from Robert Kiyosaki that I think applies here is that there are no bad investments. You know, he'll be asked all the time. He says that, you know, is this a good investment? And he says, that completely depends on you. There are no bad investments and there really are no bad investors. There's a bad match between investments and investors. So is investing in oil and gas a good or bad idea? Totally depends on the individual. It has been bad for me. It has also been good for me. And it's really about where you are in your life. It's about where you are cash flow wise. It's what you're trying to achieve. And so it really depends on the match. Right. And so I would apply that to Dave Ramsey's message, to Chris Hogan's message. Their message is for people who have been in a tough way and who are okay with spending their lives as a W2 employee, for example. And I'm not saying there's an issue with any of that. But people who have mountains of debt and who are servicing debt and have perhaps a spending habit, they're addicted to spending. Let's say then that person needs this message. But I would argue that Bill Gates does not need the message. I would argue that anyone running a successful company doesn't need the message. Well, here's the message. Basically four parts. So be on a budget and debt is a thief, right? So debt, consumer credit card debt, revolving credit debt, on things that were purchased as doodads, that don't add value to life and that don't provide income, that's bad debt.

Right?

But I would say that there's a lot of really, really good debt out there. Just ask anyone who's not an American citizen or permanent resident who cannot get a 30 year government backed fixed rate mortgage onto rental property if that's bad debt or good debt. So I don't think all debt is a thief. I don't think all debt is bad. But again, the message should be received by, is intended to be delivered by individuals who have a spending habit and who have problems and who are in swimming in mountains of debt. So they say be on a budget. I believe being on a budget focuses on scarcity. I believe that money, that currency is simply, that making money is simply evidence that you have added value to the world. If you make money long term, not some, you know, certainly if you go steal money from a bank, you have not added much value to the world. But if you have an income stream that is a continuous or a long term income stream, that's evidence that you've added value and that you continue to add value. If the income stream dries up, if your business starts doing poorly, if people stop renting your property, then you've missed something, you've stopped adding value, or you're adding less value than others in life. We're either moving forward, we're improving, or we're going backwards. There's no standing still. So you know, if your business starts adding less value, you'll start making less money. And I argue that building a mountain of money, handing that to an advisor who you believe is going to look out for your best interests, but not really adding value, which is buying and selling, you know, playing, playing the slot machines in the gambling casino of Wall street, there's no evidence of value there and therefore it doesn't make you safe. And it's not going to guarantee you that you have continued income. But if you continue putting prudent roofs on people over people's head, if you continue selling products that are of more and more and more value each year because you've updated the product, then you're going to continue to be wealthy and you're going to be continue to be safe. His last two are, you know, develop an emergency fund and maintain one. I completely agree. I completely agree. We differ on where you store those emergency funds, but we definitely agree on that subject. And the final recommendation is on the topic of investing and how and where to invest. And we definitely disagree on that topic. I don't believe that putting money into the markets with little knowledge about the company, its values, its goals, its future plans, and hoping for appreciation is a way to ensure that you're continuously adding value and that your hard earned dollars are safe. I believe it makes far more sense to put your dollars into a business that you understand, your own business perhaps that you have control over, into improving your own capabilities and into putting roofs over people's heads that provide safe neighborhoods and value to them and they pay you monthly for that value. So definitely a different approach to what you do with the money that you have been able to save after you have established an emergency fund. And again, we agree quite strongly on that part of the topic. There are some great things in this.

Book and I really appreciated Chris and.

His insights as we go through this discussion. He talks a lot about ethics, about what legacy means, and about observations that he has from their clients and from other people in America that they interviewed that have made it to, you know, at least a million dollars of net worth. So I found it fascinating. I really enjoyed his book. I enjoyed this discussion, a lively discussion and I think one where we both learned some and I think provided a venue in which you all can stand on the edge of the coin, look at both sides and make the decision for yourself. So without further ado, and after a bit of a longer introduction, here is my amazing conversation with Mr. Chris Hogan.

Well, heroic and vasting listeners, thank you so much for joining us. As I mentioned in the introduction, we have the distinct pleasure of having Chris Hogan with us here and he wrote a book called Everyday Millionaires. He's worked for many years with Dave Ramsey and I'm sure many of you are very familiar with Dave. Chris, thank you so much for joining us here on Heroic investing.

Well, thank you, sir. It's a pleasure to be with you.

Absolutely. Chris, as I mentioned, I do a little bit of an introduction, but it.

Never does justice to my esteemed guests.

We'd love to hear from your perspective how you ended up on your path.

And kind of just the background behind Chris Hogan.

Sure, sure. Well, I grew up in Kentucky and ended up going to high school There and went on to play football in the state of Kentucky as well collegiately, and then moved on to graduate school. And my goal was to pursue a career in the federal level of law enforcement. Walking through that path, I got into the business side of things and really enjoyed that. The opportunity to kind of use my team sport background inside of learning this whole area of business and money. And that started me on my financial journey. And some years later, I had an opportunity to cross paths with Dave at a charity function and really got a chance to get to know him, his heart and his mission, and was able to join his team. And I've been here for about 13 years now, having an opportunity to try to impact people's financial lives all across the country.

Wonderful. So 13 years there, working, co hosting the radio show, and you do independent work with clients as essentially a financial coach and advisor. Right.

I used to. I used to sit with people and would coach them on their own. Unique situation. When I first started, I was working with pro athletes, entertainers and musicians, primarily in New York and in la and then started working with, with everybody, really coaching them, which then morphed into me speaking and starting to coach people on a larger scale, which then moved into me writing books. My first book, Retire Inspired, came out in 2016 and then my second book, Everyday Millionaires, was released in 2019. And so having a bigger impact with people getting the information out there all across the country.

Wonderful. That's awesome. If you had an opportunity outside of the book to give some advice to first responders and members of the military, please provide that. But I also wanted you to touch on some opportunities recently. You had to be able to talk with those audiences that you mentioned to me before our start here.

Sure. Yeah. I had an opportunity to be a part of the jcoc, the Joint Civilian Outreach Conference, where I had an opportunity to visit around or 10 military bases along the Eastern seaboard. And that was in the army, the Marines, the Air Force, as well as the Navy. And had an opportunity to visit the USS George H.W. bush and spend some time there with the incredible men and women at the Norfolk Naval Station, and really had an opportunity to connect with them and talk with them and answer some questions and kind of give them some guidance. And so, you know, to all your audience out there, anyone that served our country, I just want to tell them, thank you, thank you for what you've done or what you are doing. That's not anything that I take for granted. And so, you know, the opportunity to help people that have helped to Protect us here in our great country is something I take very seriously.

Nice. Any words of wisdom that you would kind of generically, if you were to maybe distill down the speech that you had for everyone there at the conference. Anything for the audience.

Yeah, I would primarily say a couple of things. Number one, you know where you are right now. Financial aid doesn't have to be where you, you end up. Where you are now doesn't have to be where you end up unless you stop. And so I want people to understand that we all have a decision to make. The decision to improve, to grow in our knowledge, to really grow our beliefs about what we think is possible for us to accomplish. Most importantly, to really hone in our actions the day to day things that we're doing financially. And those really fall into four categories. For me, I tell people it's so important to get on a budget. You want to tell your money where to go. Don't wonder where it went as John Max and then you got to get yourself out of debt. You know, debt is a thief. It steals from you. It has a requirement on your income month in and month out. And just think about what you can accomplish when you get yourself out of debt and that money stays with you. You see, you give yourself a raise, you give yourself more income to be able to do things for the people you love the most. So getting out of debt is imperative. And then once you do that, it's really important to give yourself an emergency fund. This is a cushion. And those that have served in the military, you know, you can be transferred or relocated somewhere else once you receive orders and that life adjustment can happen. Well, for the sake of you and your family, I want you to have a cushion of money. I tell people three to six months of emergency fund just sitting there in a money market account. This is not an investment. This is insurance. This is money sitting there so you can use if life were to happen. And then the final phase of that step number four is really to get at the seriousness of investing. It's so important for us to grow our money utilizing the tsp, the opportunities the men and women of the military and first responders have available to them to prepare for their financial future.

So yeah, starting limiting the holes that are in the bucket or the outflow to get that within and check reducing servicing of debt and then grow an emergency and then investing. That's the order that I would certainly put things in as well. I work with people every day. I focus primarily and a lot of the audience focuses on Putting their investments in more alternatives. Real estate. The way to grow long term wealth in every developed country in the world has been to hold a large portion of it in real estate. At least maybe not generation one, but at some point. That's awesome. If you don't mind, I wanted to just address some items in the book for our audience. It was a great book. In chapter one, you quote Henry Ford, one of the best quotes I think I've ever heard from that man about whether you think you can or you can't, you're going to be right. Your mind and what you've convinced yourself is so incredibly important.

It really is. And that's one of the things, Gary, for me, that has been the most profound thing for me. Growing up in rural Kentucky, I didn't have a lot of exposure to a lot of worldly things. I was around a lot of incredible people in my family, my teachers, my coaches. But I was really amazed, looking back on my life, at how those individuals around me were encouraging me to think bigger than maybe I thought possible for myself. And having that encouraging voice is really a motivator, but it's also a sustainer. It helps us to begin to think differently, not just about what we see, but what do we think is possible for ourselves. And so that really was something that was profound for me, young and early in my educational career and athletic career is to really be very aware of what I think is possible and what I want to achieve.

Great points. In chapter two, you make a comment that successful people have a chip on their shoulder. And I first heard that concept from, or first pondered that, I guess it would be from the great sales trainer, Tommy Hopkins. And I just had an awesome opportunity to spend another week at sea with him on a cruise ship. And demand is just amazing. But I really love that concept and that's what I've recognized as well, is that people who are driven have a chip on their shoulder for some reason.

It might be something to prove something.

To someone else or themselves or to just make a huge change in the world, but something set them on fire and put them forward. So I really appreciate you doing that. And it comes from all different walks of life in different circumstances.

Yeah, really is. And looking at that and being able to identify that for ourselves, whether that is you're trying to prove yourself right, it may not always be about trying to prove someone else wrong or just proving what you can do. So many people that I talk to, you know, they're motivated about what they want their kids, kids to have one Day. And it's that whole legacy word that people are really honing in on and really wanting different for themselves and the generations of their family to come. And these are all things we have an opportunity to impact, but we have to get started. You know, I tell people, someday is not a day on any calendar. It's not on.

Right.

It's that thing we get to decide, and we have to start by believing we can do it and then start taking the right steps.

Right? Yeah. It's like that sign in the bar kind of on the cartoon. You know, free hamburgers tomorrow, Tomorrow never comes.

No, it's important. And unfortunately, you know, we all know in this day and age, with the way things can change in the government, we need to make sure we're taking responsibility for. For ourselves and our own financial future. And I think it's important for us to keep our hand on the pulse, to understand what we're investing in and how it works, but also really understanding the timeframe and the goals we have for ourselves. And so in this book, Everyday Millionaires, we Talk to over 10,000 millionaires all across the country. It's the largest research project that's ever been done on millionaires. But one of the things that strikes me about this study is that 97% of the millionaires that we talk to, 97% believe they control their own destiny. And what saying is is that it's this mindset of, I am going to take responsibility for myself. I'm gonna put in the work and take steps. And it's the opposite of a victim mentality where you're looking to blame someone for what you have or haven't done. And so I love that mindset. And again, successful people tend to think this way.

I completely agree. Yeah. So if you don't have ownership, then eventually you won't have control either. You won't have control of your future. But those who believe they do control and they believe that things attracted into their world are of their own doing also tend to be people who take accountability for whatever shows up in their world. I guess those are kind of go hand in hand. I also really appreciated your comments that you mentioned legacy earlier, that the legacy you want to leave is about work ethic and character. And I think that's something that's missed by actually many wealthy people because they're so busy building their business and keeping it going, building things for their family's future financially, that they miss the fact that if they don't impart the most important thing about legacy, which is Their knowledge and their experience and, you know, taking the time to personally teach their children, then all of that is for naught. I mean, you end up raising Paris Hilton, or I use her derogatorily, but you end up raising a child who doesn't respect the money or have spent any time around the person who made the money.

No, you're right. And I think that really is something. You know, 85% of the millionaires that we spoke with all said that they learned about money from their parents and so learn the importance of budgeting or learn the importance of saving. And so I think that's valuable. And I think as parents, and not just, you know, direct parents, you might be an uncle or an aunt or someone, we've got an opportunity to help younger people understand how this stuff works. And you know, there's been so many of the same errors dealing with debt overspending or allowing lifestyle to take over your, your money as opposed to us being in control. These things get perpetuated by as they get repeated. And so I think the best step is to grow in our knowledge, but to also share it with young people, or maybe not even people that aren't so young, but to be able to talk about this and to help guide people the right way.

Yeah, nicely said. So, you know, there's some statistics early in the book there about a lot more millionaires or how many millionaires there are in America. And then you talk about kind of the comparison with the millionaire next door that came out in 1994. I think it's probably helpful to provide context that a million dollars today was $556,000 back in 1994.

Do you feel like America, even beside.

That, is a more wealthy country than it was in the 1990s?

Well, I think overall we definitely have more opportunities at our fingertips nowadays than we did in 1994. We have information as a click away. Income levels have grown. The problem is, is that debt levels have grown exponentially as well. We all know we've got a trillion dollar student loan problem, we've got a billion dollar credit card problem and car loan problems. So, you know, the appetite for debt unfortunately has continued to grow. But I think more people are starting to clue in and to understand that your progress financially isn't necessarily tied to your income. It's tied to our behaviors. And I was one of those people that used to think back in the 90s that I would take my money more seriously as my income grew. The problem with that is, is that I spent 10 years thinking this And I missed out on some opportunities. So I want to encourage your listeners to start right where they are. I don't care if your income is at 30, 40, 50, 60,000, whatever it is, learn to manage that. Learn to be very smart and intentional right where you are. So then as your income grows, your progress can grow as well.

Yeah. Now what is your opinion or advice on the concept of retirement? The kind of more traditional nowadays is still around age 60, 65. If a person has a million dollars there at the retirement age, what would your advice be for that individual?

Well, I would say I talk about that in my book Retire Inspired, released in 2016. One of the things I said is that retirement's not an age, it's a financial number. And so it really boils down to do you have enough money to live the kind of life you want? And I've got a free tool, it's called the RIQ, the Retire Inspired Quotient at my website, chrishogan360.com, where you can kind of plug in and use that to understand and estimate how much you'll need. But I think a person that's following my advice, if they've got a million dollars in investable assets or just in their nest egg all totaled and they follow the plan and they've gotten themselves out of debt and they've got an emergency fund, that individual can start to make decisions for themselves and their family based on what they want. And so it really is a matter of lifestyle. It's a matter of what you want retirement to look like and what are you doing, what are your plans for giving, what are your plans for travel. And I think it's really important for us in America today to engage into this topic, have those conversations with our spouses and really start to have a plan for our family instead of just taking what's left over. You know, we've got to be proactive in our lives and plan it. That way we can set the goals and the targets that we want to achieve.

Yeah.

You know, one of the, of course I know that you commented there about debt. Now you're not a fan. I know Dave's not a fan of really taking debt, even 30 year fixed rate mortgages on investment rental properties or anything like that. Right. It's pretty much get debt free as soon as possible, all kinds of leverage.

Yeah.

You know, I tell people, you know, the only debt I'm okay with someone having is a 15 year fixed rate mortgage on their primary residence. Other than that, I do encourage people to utilize cash. And it's just because. And again, I've heard all the schools of thought on leveraging and OPM other people's money. I just, I know the payment requirement that debt brings, and it brings a level of risk. And I don't want people having unnecessary risk in their lives. I want them to have financial freedom.

I understand there was one section, round one, page 154. So where we were talking about kind of the big goal, paying off the home. And there were some statistics in there. And again, we were looking at like, you know, having it paid off certainly before retirement. And I was trying to kind of do the math, you know. So if you have a million dollars of net worth, 350,000 in the house, I think was the example there, and another 100,000 or so outside of the investable assets and other assets, that puts us around 5. Let's just round it to 500, maybe 600,000 investable assets in the 401 or whatever brokerage account.

The old 4% rule, the safe amount.

Of withdrawal, Dr. Wade Pfau and many others here in the last decade or so have reevaluated that to be somewhere around three, three, maybe three and a quarter safe withdrawal weight, just based on not being able to make enough return in savings accounts, et cetera. So if we have 600,000 and we're pulling 3% off of that, that's 18,000 a year on top of about a $20,000 Social Security return, that gets us to about 38,000. So I think that's a sobering thing to think about for a lot of millionaires. If you have a $1 million net worth and your total income before tax is 38,000, your thoughts on that?

Well, I think it's the quality of life that we all want to live is the conversation that I'm trying to get started with America to begin to look at this and to understand. Even with Social Security, I mean, you know, Gary, you and I both know that's a vote away, you know, in the political landscape of being changed. And right now, the course that we're on, by 2034, Social Security is expected to be insolvent. And so all of this is a wake up call for us to begin to understand we've got to take control. And I think the best way for us to heal this country is for each and every household to have a budgeting plan, to have a debt reduction and elimination plan, to have emergency savings, and for us to really look inward about what we're doing to Help ourselves. I think if we can do this all around the country, we can heal our nation financially. We can begin to make progress in the direction we all want to go.

Completely agree. And you made some great comments too. If I were to pivot just a little bit there on student loans, I mean that is just. That is an enslaving event like no other. I mean, you know, we've had a 7% annual increase in student tuition prices mainly because the government has guaranteed those loans and taken away the ability for.

People to discharge that debt. Right.

So it's really the only thing that you can, no kidding, can really get shackled in on without the ability to realize you've made a mistake and start over.

Yeah, it is definitely an alarming situation. I've been doing media hits all across the country over the last few years. Really ringing the bell on this sit. But more importantly, helping people to understand. I'm a fan of higher education. I've got a few degrees myself. But I think it's important for us to know there are other ways to achieve that education. Whether you are serving your country to then through the GI Bill or whether you're going to school at night while you work during the day or you're going to community college. I mean there are ways we can do this without signing on the dotted line for hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt that can take people a very long time to pay. So it's important for us to look at this and to change the conversation to help people know there are other options to pursue progress.

Nicely said. I didn't get the chapter number here, but it's around 7 or 8 where you're talking about better your skillset. And I just wanted to give you a shout out that that was a great section.

Oh, thank you.

Talking about getting up early, reading the book, exercising. The only thing that I try to push and add to that is bettering your own capabilities, your own skills. It was in there. Obviously that's why you're reading the book. But you know, the continuum to pursue both passive income as well as, you know, increasing your own earnings capability, your.

Ability to add value to the world.

And get compensated for it. Those are, you know, I just, I really appreciated that section.

Well, I appreciate it. And I'll tell you, you know, walking through the book, I came up with five characteristics that people can start to do that these millionaires were doing to help them be successful. And there are five of them. And get the book, you can read through more in detail. But I wanted to share it with your listeners. Number one, the average millionaire, they take personal respons, they practice intentionality with their finances, they're goal oriented, they're hard workers and they know that wealth building takes consistency. And these are all five things. These five characteristics are things we can all decide to begin to work on today. It's not something we need to wait on. We can start to do that today and to start to establish those habits in our lives.

Yeah. Would you say that investment when you talk with your clients? Well, maybe not clients, your listeners, the people you studied, the 10,000, their investments, are they predominantly market based 401k asset brokerage accounts, that kind of thing.

They are actually diversified. They have obviously their employer sponsored retirement plans, 401ks, 403s, Roth IRAs, traditional IRAs, but they also invest in real estate as well. They are diversified, but a majority of their wealth is in employer sponsored retirement plan, 403bs, TSPS or 401s.

How do you wrestle that with the comment that 97% of millionaires believe they control their own destinies? How do you control your own destiny when your money's majority of it's subjected to the market and under the control of another investment person?

Well, I think there's a couple things here. Controlling our own destiny means their mindset and how they view things. That if there's something they're wanting to accomplish, they're not looking to blame someone or to find an excuse first and foremost. But looking at investing, I think it's important to understand investing is long term, right? We save for short term, but we invest long term. So the mindset of putting money away, we all know I've got to outpace inflation, right? So my money has to grow. And so utilizing it, whether it's a 401k or 403b or tsp or Roth IRA. The mindset of knowing I need to grow my money based on my risk tolerance and based on my goals I think is something again, we have to make the decision to invest that money. You know, the days of pensions, those days are long gone. And that's where companies would put money away for you. But these plans nowadays, the 403B, the 401K, even the TSP, we've got to put money in ourselves. It's on us to take care of ourselves.

Yeah, that's definitely true. I'm glad to hear that many of them are diversifying outside the market as well as they can to be able to get something that would offset and be non correlated to that you're not a fan of life insurance, at least permanent insurance, having it around as a young individual until you've built your market assets, I'm a little different from that. I believe that we are our own number one best asset. And I wanted to give you an opportunity to comment on it. We protect all of our other assets. We have a home. And in fact, when you pay off your home, you could easily just cancel that insurance. The bank's not going to require you to have it anymore. But that would be really stupid if you had $350,000 of your net worth locked up in it. Same thing with a car. You're probably not going to run anyone over. But if you do not have car insurance, of course you drive that home very well. But when it comes to the number one asset, the thing that will create the most income for us and the thing that is really kind of the center of the reason for being around ourselves, our own mind and our own ability to earn money, we don't insure that thing. Why don't we insure the most useful, wealthy thing in our lives?

Well, I would say this. Let me clarify. I'm a firm believer in life insurance. I think term life insurance is very important. I encourage people to get 12 times their annual income in term life insurance. Walking through this, the goal of insurance is to replace your income, right? If you were to pass away or something were to happen to you, it's the way you say I love you to your family. But walking through this, I'm a clear believer. I want things to wear the right hat, meaning I want life insurance to be life insurance. I want my investments to be investments, and I want my insurance and savings to be just that. And so it boils down to personal preference for me at bottom, bottom line is the cost. Whole life insurance and permanent insurance, looking at the cost of it compared to term, it's a cheaper way to go for people to be able to get the coverage. However, as people are building wealth and reaching a certain level, I have talked to people that have used it as part of their overall plan. And so again, I just encourage people to have conversations with a licensed insurance professional so they can walk through, understand what it is, what role it plays, and they can get the right products that fit them.

That's awesome.

Great, great comments. Love your. I'm kind of bouncing all around here, but it'll be a little scavenger hunt for all those who go off and read the book. But earlier in the book we were talking about scarcity versus Abundance. And I thought that was a wonderful chapter again. So. So in summary, I truly enjoyed reading the book.

It's always good to stand on the.

Edge of the coin, as Robert Kiyosaki says, so that you can see both sides. You and I are on opposite sides for life insurance. But there were two really good arguments I think just commented there. And it's just a very small example of how people, when you read things that are slightly different, it really helps you see both sides and see what's.

The best fit for you. Right.

No, I agree. And I think. You know what, Gary, that's one of the things that responsible adults can do. You know, they have different disagreements and I wish we could help political parties to talk like you and I just have.

Oh, boy.

Of preference. But I think at the ultimate side, you and I are locking arms and wanting people to have information.

We want accountability, right? Yeah.

To take care of themselves, to provide for their families. And that's what I want. I want more people living their dream. I want more people being able to give back and do mission trips and to do things that make them excited and happy and being able to help others. And so I just firmly believe if we take the right steps and help ourselves and have the right kind of attitude, that we put ourselves in a position to be able to help someone else later. And I think that's an important thing for us to really keep in mind, even as we provide for our own households.

Yeah, I completely agree. Legacy. When I say legacy, and I. You believe this as well because it was in your book. Legacy is a whole lot more than passing money to other people.

Right.

We talked about that at the beginning. I'm kind of circling back to it. But you mentioned helping others out. Both perhaps charity, but showing them the light.

Right.

Shining the light, the path where they can take accountability and they can start growing and being in control of their own destiny. Man, Chris, this was a wonderful book. Everybody go get Everyday Millionaires. I don't think I have to ask where you can get the book because is pretty easy to do nowadays. How can they find out more though, about your mission?

Well, thank you, Gary. Yeah. You can connect with me at my website, chrishogan360.com that's chrishogan360.com there's information on there about my show, my radio show. I've got blogs and stuff on there about my YouTube channel as well.

Awesome. Thank you so much for your time, Chris.

Gary, thank you for having me.

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