1900: Rollo Tomassi: The Rational Male & the Alpha Female

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Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Greetings from beautiful Ritz Carlton Lake Oconee, Georgia. I am here today just finishing up a fantastic mastermind retreat. This is an all men's retreat and we had some, some really good conversations, met a bunch of new people, a bunch of listeners to the podcast. Glad to hear that always. And a lot of real estate investors here and it's just been a really, really great time. Yesterday we got up early for the sunrise and enjoyed some water sports, wakeboarding, wake surfing, jet skiing yesterday afternoon and just a whole bunch of fun times and I thought I'd just give you a beautiful sunrise Here it is 7am on the dot here at the Ritz Carlton Lake Oconee, Georgia and I just thought I'd share this with you. If you are watching on video you can see behind me this absolutely gorgeous sunrise over the lake. So really, really nice. Anyway, we have got a fantastic 10th episode show for you today. I do want to give a bit of a trigger warning because our guest today is Rolo Tomasi. If you don't know that name, he is a very well author. He's written several books, sold almost 3 million books. And it's interesting that he is such an expert in the field that you're about to hear about because he has been married for I think 23 years and has, I believe his daughter is 21 years old or something like that. I was fortunate to hang out with he and his wife Missy About a month ago in Reno, Nevada and Tahoe, Nevada. And we did all kinds of things there. That was great. But Rolo is the author of the Rational Mail series and then some other books as well. But the Rational Mail series has been very famous series of books. They take a deep dive into social and cultural dynamics. And I think you'll really enjoy this very long 10th episode show interview. And just as you're listening to this, it is a 10th episode show, so of course it's off topic, it's a non financial topic. But I want you to think about the financial implications of this topic because they are so wide ranging. When we think of real estate investing and we think of the demand for housing and we think of how people are not coupling up the way they used to. And I've talked many times, as you know, by the way, as the sun's rising, the light is changing quite a bit here, so bear with me on that. We have very basic production quality here. If you're watching on video, I've got my laptop in front of me, this beautiful sunrise in the background and basically have the lighting of my iPhone. Yes, that's our studio, if you will. And pardon the sound quality, but hopefully you can hear the beautiful chirping of the birds and so forth. But think of the wide ranging implications of all of the stuff we're about to talk about. As you're listening to Rolo and I get into this deep conversation about the way social dynamics have changed over the years. And I got to give you a trigger warning again because some people really take issue with this now. I think that's wrong. I don't think they should take issue at all. I think they should listen with an open mind as to how these dynamics play out because they really are disastrous in so, so many ways. So we'll get to that in a moment. It's a long discussion. Okay, this is probably the longest tenth episode show we've ever done. Episode 1900 here today. But just back to the group a bit. You know, I used to be involved in men's groups through my church when I lived in Newport Beach, California. And they were fantastic because guys would get together, we'd go on retreats, you know, there'd be a couple hundred guys there. You know, they'd talk about their relationships, their financial life, their deals, their investments and so forth. And we did that yesterday at our roundtable after we listened to a couple of speakers, you know, and it's just so important to do that because you get a very different flavor when the sexes are separated, right. You know, people just interact much differently. It's just really fulfilling. And, you know, it's been a while since I've done that. When I was involved in Mariners Church, when I lived in Southern California, you know, I was involved in the men's groups and they were great. They were really great. We'd have meetings at the church on the campus, but then we'd go on retreats in the mountains and so forth. And that's what this has been like because this is an all men's group, 100% guys here. And just really fulfilling to have these conversations and to hear about their deals and their financial stresses and relationships and so forth. One of the tips I got just yesterday from one of the speakers, literally it was a tax tip. And my CPA did not know about this. And I sent him a message right away and I said, hey, what about this? And he thought the law was different. And when I told him about it and I told him what the speaker said, he researched it and he said, yeah, you're right. You know, that's a loophole that they haven't closed yet. And literally this will probably save me about $200,000 in tax this year. That's how valuable these events and education, right? And so I really encourage you to join us for our upcoming virtual event, Recession Proof Investing Summit. Real Easy virtual event. It's just, what, two weeks? And it's going to be fantastic. And then our following live event in beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona in late January. Save the date for that. Many of you have reached out to me and say, where can I register for the Scottsdale event? I want to go. We don't have a page up for that yet, but attend our virtual event. Go and register for that one@jasonhartman.com and you will be offered a nice discount for the Scottsdale event at that virtual event. So attend both. They'll be different. By the way, speaking of taxes, we just confirmed Rich dad author Tom Wheelwright, who will be speaking again at our Scottsdale event. He spoke at our Newport beach event a few years ago. If you attended that one, you'll remember. And he's going to talk about the latest and greatest strategies for saving on life's highest expense, taxes. Right? We've got to become experts in how to save money on taxes. So go to jasonartman.com, get a ticket for our upcoming virtual event, and then soon we will have a page for you to get tickets for our live event in beautiful Scottsdale, Arizona, late January, but save the dates for that. That's the last weekend of January, Friday, Saturday and Sunday in Scottsdale, Arizona. Okay, so let's get to our very in depth interview with famous author Rollo Tomasi. As we talk about the rat, we talk about these social dynamics that have just changed so dramatically in our culture. And in my opinion, not for the better. They've changed for the worse, dramatically. And that's why you see such a shifting pattern in housing demand, demand for consumer products, taxation, the impact on the economy. It is so wide ranging and so significant. And already got up and worked out this. But now we're gonna go do some yoga here. They've got yoga on the lawn, this group. And so all the guys are out there and I gotta do that. So here's the interview with Rolo, and be sure to go to jasonhartman.com and register for our upcoming virtual event.

It is my pleasure to welcome someone to the show who you probably wouldn't expect on my show, but it is an important topic, and that is Rollo Tomasi. He is the author of the Rational Male series of book. There are five books in the series. And he really takes a deep intellectual dive into social dynamics, the dynamics between the sexes. And this is a hot topic nowadays. So I wanted to have him on the show. Rolo, it's great to have you. Welcome.

Yeah, good to be on with you, Jason. Finally on with you.

Yeah, absolutely. And you were at our collective event in Dallas. We heard you speak there and got to hang out with you. And it was really fun talking to you there. So great to have you on. Rolo, I'd just like to ask you give everybody, you know, the 60 second elevator pitch as to, you know, you and what the Rational Mail series is about.

Sure, sure. Giving an elevator pitch for the red pill is like next to impossible because it's so diverse. There's so much, I think, what happens.

Executive summary.

Okay, so here's the quick summary. What we know is the quote unquote manosphere right now evolved from the seduction communities of the early 2000. And a lot of people, such as myself, sort of took the ball and ran with it at that point. And so it's no longer just about like, how do I get a girlfriend, how do I go, you know, how do I get laid in a club? Or something like that. It's more about intersexual dynamics. There's a lot of sub fields to it right now. So it's a collection not just of, you know, learning how to interact and have social skills with women. Now it is gone from the micro to the macro. And by that I mean we, we go into intersectional dynamics now we go into social dynam dynamics that have to do with gender, gender politics, even macroeconomics of, you know, how do, how does inner intersectional dynamics relate to like investments, how we form families? You think about the.

And how that impacts the economy because.

Exactly. Rolo and I got it all is just.

I have taken deep dives on my show into the conspiracy frankly to either keep people single or if they're married, to split them up. Think about it. You double the size of the consumer economy. If people are single, they need two coffee makers, they need two sofas, they need two beds, they need two of everything. Two houses obviously. And if you have them together, they're sharing things. So if you're the corporatocracy and you want to double the size of your market, you want to promote movies that split people up, you want to promote a media culture of discontent. Right, right. Because that's going to double your market share, quite literally. Double. Think about it, double. And you go beyond that and you look at the tax impact and the impact on the GDP. I mean in the 50s, can you imagine, people must have been stressing out. We've got half of our workforce at home raising kids. We could put them to work. Right. You know, like we need these women in the workforce. So they're growing the GDP and growing the consumer society and they're.

And they're, you know, I mean when you look so like as far as you know, finishing the elevator pit pitch here. Yeah. Especially when it comes to like broader topics that are micro related to how men and women actually come together, form families really is what it, what it comes down to. And then how does that impact the. Well really the character and the economy and the society of a particular country and exactly what you're saying. I, I was just on with George Gammon. It's funny you should mention this. I was on with George Gammon. We were talking about how. I think it's like is. It is. Correct me if I'm wrong, it's Malthusian.

Economic Malthusian. Yeah. That's the scarcity.

Population control essentially is what it is. And it's no longer, you know, having a war is not a. The best practice I guess anymore to sort of, you know, cut down on excess population. So there's gotta be social narratives and social institutions that have the same effect. And really just what you mentioned a minute ago is it's it's in a sort of socioeconomic best interest. If we can put more women to work and we can make them like women are the primary consumers in the United States right now. They buy more stuff than, you know. When we talk about, we talk about like the gender wage gap, for example. It's not about who's earning the money, it's about who's spending the money, who has the money, and who is in control of the purse strings. And right now it's primarily women that are the economic drivers, at least in Western nations right now. And that was one of the topics I even talked about when I was at the collective, is that if you go and you look at like the World bank, you look at the imf, you look at what is at the European Central bank, they're all controlled by women right now. And what does that, what does society look like when women control the purse strings and the economics of the World Bank?

So clearly you're not just talking about consumer spending, you're talking about big banking. I mean, the imf, the World bank, central banks, Europe, for example.

I mean, was it. Janet Yellen's the Treasury secretary?

Right, right. But that's not a central bank. But she was our central banker a few years ago.

If you go and you look at countries like the top, I think in 16 of top, like, you know, Western nations right now, all of those nations, the purse strings and the treasury and everything else is controlled, the economy is controlled by women.

So here's the multi trillion dollar question. What does that mean? What changes? Why does it matter? If it's Jerome Powell or Janet Yellen at that top level, that elite level of a central bank or a Treasury secretary, how does that matter to society? What is a woman going to do? That's different. Different.

Okay, here's, here's the red pill take on that. Something else I also talked about at the collective is when we look at that women tend to organize societies in a communitarian fashion, okay? We can go all the way back to when human beings were living in hunter gatherer tribes. For men, the way men organize society is hierarchical. Okay? So at the top, there's the general and the, and then the lieutenants and the, you know, and the corporal, all the way down to the privates, right? So, and that's very similar to how we organize businesses. So there's the president to the owner, then there's the CEO, the CEO, the cfo, all the, all the people on, down on in the hierarchical ranks. When women organize societies and when they are offered some sort of political power, socioeconomic power. The way women approach that is through communitarianism. So when we look at, like, hunter gatherer tribes, for example, you've got men who go out and they distribute resources or rewards based on performance. I mean, ideally, anyway. Exactly, exactly. A meritocracy. So if. And they've done. There's tons of research on this, by the way, where they will take a group of men and they'll take a group of women, and they will give them a limited amount of resources, whatever that happens to be. So for men, it's like, okay, we're going to do this project, we're going to do these things. And at the end of the project, we're going to distribute the resources. And Jim did a better job than Joe did. And so you get 10 bucks. And Joe, you did pretty good. So you get five bucks. And Steve and Mike and all the rest of you guys, you get three bucks. And on down the line, as far as, like, what the performance was rated versus, you know, what, what it is that they contributed to that project. For women, it's much different. They're. They're much more communitarian is the best way I can put it. But it's egalitarianism. So it's like one for you and one for you and one for you and oh, and sue, you're pregnant, so two for you and Joan, you know, one for you and one for you. And it's much more egalitarian and socialist.

Yeah, I think we all agree with that assessment. But. But is that bad?

It depends on this. It's bad in the sense that when women come into a hierarchical organization such as the American workforce right now that has been classically based on hierarchy, and women come in and they say, well, I gotta be here for 40 hours a week because I want to be more. More like a man. I want to be in the workforce. I want to be sort of the. The alpha female archetype. But we need to have preg leave. We need to have childcare here. We need to have like, all of these different sort of social initiatives, these things that make being at work in a. That makes more or less, makes that company less competitive against companies who don't have that and don't have to worry about that. And they're much more, I guess they're much more masculine in the hierarchy. And so when you look at, like, companies competing with other companies, capitalism is based on male hierarchies, essentially. You get a bunch of guys together, we're going to make a car and we're going to be better. We're Ford and we're going to be better than Chevy and Chevy's going to be better than Dodge and we're going to, we're going to, and you're going to be the CEO and on down the line and we're going to have people who are really competing with other people because if we don't, then, you know, we don't drive society. We don't have, we don't have, you know, bigger and better things. Well, when women come into that situation that's already been sort of pre established for them, they don't run that company in the same way that say the guys who are, you know, Henry Ford or whoever else is putting those companies together to begin with. And so they sort of, when women come into male space, they take over that male space and they turn it into a female space because they want it to be more comfortable. And they don't understand that the competitiveness and the prosperity that that company has generated. The most vital element of that was the fact that there was some competition that was going on there. And that competition is really a male hierarchy, dominance hierarchy put into a business sense.

Well, and from a governmental perspective or a political perspective, I mean, what you're saying is women tend to have more of a collectivist mindset, communitarian men have more of a capitalist mindset. And collectivism isn't a total disaster until some tyrant starts running it. There's always some elite class and then there's everybody else. Right? I mean, that's Joseph Stalin. Right? You know.

Well, I know I've, I've had this discussion with Robert Kiyosaki who's very passionate about this.

Oh, I know he is.

He's got the capitalist man of best rollout right now. So we, we've had this, we've had this discussion before, but I always approach things from sort of like intersectional dynamics. So I'm, I'm hitting it from that angle whenever I have a conversation with him. But when we're talking about like Marx, he's, he loves to talk about Marxism and communism and everything else. And, and I'm like, you know, the problem with, with that even just having that discussion is because, is that it's a failed meme, first of all. It's a failed idea. It's a failed, failed concept, let's just say. Because when we look at Marxism, when you look at socialism and when you look at like communism, whatever it's based on this understanding of what we think human nature ought to be.

Right?

And it's simply, it's simply. And in the, we're in the, we're in the 21 years into 21 and a half years into the 21st century. We have the data, we have the statistics, we have the numbers that show that we're not blank slates. You know, we're not, it's not about social constructionism, it's not. Human nature is not what Karl Marx thought it was way back in the mid-1800s. And so it's failed. We've already seen that it's failed because men and women are different. That's another thing. And we don't, we don't take into account sort of this evolutionary, biological, psychological differences and natures of human beings. We know we're not blank slate equals. We know we're not. Egalitarianism doesn't work. We know that socialism and communitarianism ultimately gets co opted or ultimately like you were saying before, when you have this sort of idealized socialism or communism or whatever, when you, when that's already pre established, it's ripe for somebody to step in and go, well this is great man, it's already done for me. I can just come in here and be the tyrant. You know, because you're, what you're looking at is you're looking at the conflicts and here's the red pill take on this. You're looking at the conflicts between how women organize society, how women spend money, how women allocate funds, how how women redistribute resources versus how men do do it. And so when we look at like communist and socialism and communitarianism and how that, how society is organized sort of in this female feminine way versus how men hierarchically, in a dominance hierarchy organize society. We can say, well you know, women are kinder and gentler and whatever. Yeah, but they're less competitive as well. They end up becoming very stagnant, very androgynous, very, very stayed, you know, after a while. And the problem is, is though that particular way of organizing society does, isn't, isn't diverse enough or isn't creative enough or innovative enough to deal with challenges that might actually, you know, threaten that way of life. So when we look at it from those perspectives, it's very like, and this is from Rollo Tomasi, the guy who's supposed to be a pickup artist, right? This is from the guy who's, who's like teaching you game and everything else. But you have to understand the fundamental Nature of men and women and the differences, and then extrapolate that into, you know, your personal life, into like, what's your particular value as a man? What's your. How do men organize society? How do women organize a society? What's the nature of men? What's the nature of women? And how can we go forward and create something better based on empirical evidence now that everybody on Google can find any.

This is, this is this whole argument of this that everybody's born and they're a tabula rasa, right? A blank slate.

Nonsense. Utterly disproven.

It is just so false. And no matter how good your PR campaign is, no matter how much media you buy and how much the corporate media promotes this idea, it's simply not true. You're not going to change nature, Okay? I mean, nature, maybe it evolves, but it's extremely slow at that. Okay?

So I've always said it's better to work within the framework. It's better to excel within the framework. Don't wish it were easier, wish you were better. Like, don't stop trying to change the human machine and work within that framework because you'll have a better society, you'll have better relationships, you'll have better, you know, complementarianism, let's just say between men and women. If you accept the nature of women and you accept the nature of men, I've always.

And it's weird that we don't. Why, why is it, Rolo, that we don't want to celebrate these differences? We want to ignore them and act like they don't exist, which is in many ways very disrespectful to people. You know, like, why can't people be the, the way they want to be? Which kind of. The left would argue that's what everybody is entitled to, but not when it's nature, right? You know, then it's wrong.

Our nature is to exploit and take advantage of those differences when it suits us. And this is both men and women, by the way. I'm not picking on any one particular gender in this, in this sense, anyways. The theme of my work for really the past, I don't know, probably about the last six or seven years, has been calling out the difference, the differences between us clinging to 20th century emotionalism and beliefs and just really, really wanting these things to be true. But we're faced with a society and access to information where, you know, a schmuck like me can go on Google and cite sources all day long and I can connect dots and people simply don't have counterarg for the empirical data. So what I'm seeing is I'm looking at a conflict of emotional investments and emotionalism versus empiricism that is inarguable. It's right there in front. Like, what do you have to say about these. These particular things? That's not just an intersectional dynamics thing. That's also like beliefs and politics and religion and you name it.

Okay. So we talked about that sort of broad societal thing, but let's bring it down a little bit to the more personal level, if we can. What is. Is it that at various life stages, each side of the gender spectrum. Right. What do they want from each other? Like, what is a woman looking for at different stages of life? Tell us about that. I mean, I know the answer because I've read your book.

So you've read the second book.

Yeah, but what. You know, just explain that to the audience, if you would. And then I want to go to the calculators that we talked about. Okay. And I want to share the screen.

How valuable are you?

So let's. So first and foremost, I. What you're referring to is my second book, which is Preventive Medicine, which I honestly think is the sleeper hit of all five of the books. But that's just me personally, when I wrote that book. First of all, when I wrote the first book, I thought that was going to be the only book I'd ever write. Right. I just. I wanted to write the book that I wanted to read, and that's exactly what I did. And then I had other people saying, rolo, this is some groundbreaking stuff. I've. I feel like I've always known this, but I haven't been able to articulate it. And I wish I would have known this before I got married, before I moved to a different or before I changed my major and moved to a different town so that I could go to college and facilitate my relationship. I wish I would have known this before I had kids. I wish I would have known this before X, Y and z. Right. And so that's why I wrote Preventive Medicine, which is based on a timeline. And it's a general. In a. In the most broadest general sense. Okay. And I'm very much generalizing in that book.

Book.

But it's what men can expect from women, at least in Western, actually, even more than Western societies, at different phases of women's maturity. So I start the book, I start the timeline anyway.

And the women are saying, well, we mature so much faster than men, and you're right about that. I think that's true.

They do actually, but they mature up to a point. They mature fast and hot and then stop. Right? Whereas for men it tends to be a more slow burn and more like build your equity as a guy. Over the course of time it takes longer for a man to mature into the things that make him like at peak attractiveness. And so that's what I put into the timeline is I started at 15 years old and people criticize me for that, but that the reason I did that is because I have high school guys asking me about these very complex questions. Okay, So I started from 15 all the way up to about 50 or 55 I think is what the cutoff point is. So like say between the ages of 18 and 28, that's what I call women's party phase. Since then people, I've had women call it the hoe phase, right? They go and they want to sow their wife. They're basically following a male sort of so your wild oats kind of, you know, template there. And they, I think on some level of consciousness women realize that that 10 year span in their life is where they're going to be at their top of the top of their game or they'll be able to maximize their, their peak agency years because that's when men find women the most attractive is between 18 and 28 and it usually tops out at about 23, 24 years.

I peg women's sexual market value peak right around 23. For men I peg it at about 36 because it takes longer for men to mature into the things that women find the most attractive and need the most. So it's not just about like how hot the guy is or how, you know, arousing the guy. I make a separation by the way between arousal and attraction. So if you ask a woman what are you attracted to in a guy, she's going to tell you, oh, he's got to love puppy dogs and he's got to love his mom and he's got to have a good job and he's got to be funny and he's got to be intelligent, he's got to be educated and he's got to, you know, you know, love Disneyland as much as I do. There's, those are the attractive long term things. But if you ask a woman what, what, what make what gets you hot about a guy, that's the arousal side of things. So it's like you know, a V tape or six pack abs. He's got to be six Feet tall, he's got to have a chiseled jawline, and he's to look like a stereotypical, you know, Chippendales dancer. That's the difference between those two. So I always have to make that distinction because people will say, well, what's attractive? Well, that's much different than what makes you arousing. So when I'm talking about those things for women, men and women have different criteria for what makes them maximally, sort of like appealing as a partner or as just a sex, you know, short term sexual partner versus a long term, you know, relationship partner. But for men, it takes much longer to mature into what makes him maximally attractive. So if he's got money, muscles and game, it takes him a lot longer to get that than it does for women to simply get. She's got to be hot and she's got to be available. That those are the two criteria that men have, you know, and then anything else after that is sort of gravy beyond, beyond, you know, getting your foot in the door with being attractive and, you know, being hot and being available for men, like I said before, you've got to be a much more complete package. And it takes longer for men to mature into that. So the timeline follows women from like say 18 or 15 all the way to 50. And at various stages along the way, women have different criteria or they have the same criteria, but they reprioritize it differently. So a woman between 18 and 28, she might just be looking for the hot guy in the foam cannon party on spring break in Cancun. That's what she's really looking for, is that fun, exciting, sexual guy who's going to really rock her world. Whereas when she gets to be about 29 to 31 years old, that's the, what I call the epiphany phase. And that's when women say, I'm done with my journey of self discovery and I got to get right with God and I've got to do things the right way and I need to find a guy. Where's the nice guys, Rolo? Where are the good guys? Where the high value guys now and.

They'Re hitting 31 years old.

Guys aren't as forthcoming anymore.

No, no, but here's the reality. You ignored all of those guys the last 10 years. You were, you were mean to them, you were rude to them, and they disappeared. You know, that's what happened, you know?

Yeah, well, there's. There's this. It's one of the. It's what I've called the betas and waiting syndrome. They're hoping that there'll be some guy. And by the way, this. I'm not just kind of pulling this out of my ass. This is like, you can go and read exactly this in Sheryl Sandberg's Lean in. Her advice to women is exactly what I just said.

That's amazing.

Fun guys. Date the bad boys. Date the hot guys. Date the commitment phobic guy. Date those guys during your 20s. And then when you get to be. Yeah, when you get.

Women like jerks. Every guy says, date the jerks.

You know, date the bad boys until you get to be 29, 30, 31 years old. And then start looking for a guy who wants to be an equal partner in a relationship. And. And he wants to do things around the house, and he's really supportive of you. And. And don't worry, there'll be plenty of those guys when. When the time. And if you go and you look at statistics, statistically speaking, when men and women in Western societies have been getting married later and later and later in life, and lo and behold, the average age of first marriage is exactly where I pegged the epiphany phase. Men get married right around 2930. Women are getting married about 28, 29 years old, at least in the United States right now. And they don't. Women are having fewer and fewer children, and they're having them later in life. So they're having them, like, in their early 30s right now, which totally coincides with Sheryl Sandbergian hypergamy. You know, it locks in perfectly with that. And so when people throw rocks at me, I go, don't throw rocks at me. Throw rocks at Sheryl Sandberg. Because that's where I'm getting this from.

And guess what? Facebook and Google and all these big tech companies reinforce it. They'll freeze your eggs because they want you at your desk and your cubicle working for them. They want you to put off childbirth. In fact, they would rather you not have kids. Kids at all. And most of the time, the egg freezers don't ever have kids.

I'll tell you what has really been frustrating for me recently is, like, people, because I have people, like, throw Elon Musk's tweets at me recently. And he's. He's been talking about, like, the declining fertility rates and how he's an exception to the rule because he's got, like, multiple wives, everything else. And I'm. I'm like, I'm looking at this. I'm going this guy is like the peak. First of all I think he's a beta male. But second of all is he's like peak hypocrisy because Tesla and I don't know about SpaceX, but I do know Tesla recently made an announcement that if Roe v. Wade gets turned over to the states and there's like abortion states and there's non abortion states, it's Tesla, Amazon, Starbucks, Goldman Sachs by the way too. And various other companies right now are offering stipends for women to cross state lines to go get an abortion in an abortion state and come back.

Rolo, that's so complicated because all these companies, they're just under so much pressure to be woke. Okay, you know.

It'S not just about the woke stuff like women are want to believe that but it's in those companies economic best interest to send you across the state lines to go get an abortion if you have your kids.

Maternity leave and yeah, maternity leave distracted.

You know, it's all about economics, macroeconomics, right there, there's another red pill manosphere. And thing that happens has to do with you know, abortion crossing state lines or what you were saying before freezing your eggs, right? They don't worry about it. You haven't found the right guy. It's okay. Career will freeze your eggs. It's part of your benefits package.

But it's, it's all a giant conspiracy to lower the birth rate and keep women in the workforce.

And you know, you know, you know.

What, you know what's so interesting about this is that before the feminist movement and I'm really talking about, you know, wa and three, obviously, you know, the first wave was fine. That was necessary for sure. But after that, this constant promotion of the feminist movement, you know, the, the sort of, the complaint was well, you know, women are under men's thumb, right? They, they, you know, they shouldn't be men, right? They, they should be able to do what they want. Okay, fine. Now guess what? They are now slaves of corporations. Okay? That's what's happened. They're just slaves of corporations. And these corporations are working them to the bone. They're dying of the same stress related diseases that men have historically died of. Now women are dying of the same diseases. And you know, it's a very unhealthy thing, but somehow this myth has been perpetuated. It is so strong. It's unbelievable how powerful it is that, oh you're, you know, like they tell women they're losers if they want to be a mom, right? I mean they Just they, like, guilt trip them into, oh, no, you've got to work. You've got to be a career woman. That's the empowered women. You know, I think everybody should have their own choices and do what they want. But when it becomes this agenda, it becomes a really scary thing.

It's just weird, you know, like, you've probably heard this before. I actually got into a kind of a heated discussion when I was first sort of getting familiar with Robert Kiyosaki and his staff, because his staff is primarily female. And I will go so far as to say that, like, Nicole likes me, I guess, but, like, there's people on the staff that really don't like what I have to say. But I think it's primarily because they don't really have any counter arguments to what I have to say. And one of those arguments was that there's no such thing as an alpha female. And they're. They were really upset when I said that. They're like, well, I make my own money and I got career and I got this, and I got. That's. Yeah, but what you are is you've built your. You've modeled your personal personality on that of an alpha male. So essentially, what you are is you're an alpha male with female body parts is what you've done. You become the man that you want to marry. And that's why when women get to be 35, 36, 37 years old, and they're like, where's. Where's my Prince Charming? Where's my guy? Where's my turnkey relationship? Where's my high value man that I. That I deserve because I did everything by the book, like what you were just saying a minute ago. We teach these women that. That to. To be more masculine, to be in the workforce, to do these things is them, you know, be a strong, independent woman. And if you do, and if you're a mother, if you're a homemaker, if you in any way depend on a man in any way, shape or form, you're a failure.

Yeah, Yeah, I know it's absolutely appalling that this has happened to society, but.

But it is what it is.

I had.

I had women saying, well, what do I do to get a guy, Rollo? Like, help me. How do I get it? How do I get the high value guy? I'm 33, 36 years old, and I'm telling him. I'm saying, well, the first thing you need to do is, what we've been telling since the 70s, is you need to get in touch with your feminine side. You need to, you need to be, become, you know, understand your emotionality and understand that, you know, there's a there. Men and women are different. We're better together than we are apart. We're better, you know, we're innate natural compliments to one another. And they're like, well, how do I do that? How do I do that? And I go, well, you've got to get in touch with your femininity. And when I say something like that to a woman who has for most of her life built herself up around this sort of alpha female paradox, it sounds like I'm saying dumb your yourself down and they can't interpret it any other way. That's not what I'm saying. But to say, well, you need to be more feminine, you need to be more nurturing, you need to be more, you know, sexy, I guess too. I mean, take care of yourself physically as well. But you have to be, you have to in some way care about how men think about you in an era when you've been raised since you were five years old with Disney Pixar movies to tell you that you should never in any way be dependent on a man or be concerned with anyone's pleasure except, except for your own. So that's a really, that's really tough for women who for their whole life have heard this narrative and then now they're 36 and they don't know what to do. And I'm saying, you know, get in touch with your feminine side. And they're like, how dare you?

I know, it's, it's just, it's, it's unbelievable. I don't think there is any man that I have ever met, ever and talked to that says I want to find a woman who earns a lot of money. Like, I've never heard that come out of a guy's mouth. Okay, I've had a million discussions on this stuff.

Our criteria for attraction and arousal don't have anything to do with. Fine with the. To be a man is to make and earn more resources than you can expend because that makes you more suitable to become someone who's going to reproduce, be able to take care of kids. It's what I call the three Ps protection, provisioning and parental investment that comes from being able to earn and create excess resources.

Right.

At least in a long term. Like what makes a man attractive. Those are definitely make men attractive.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay, so let, let's look at the calculator for a moment. Okay. In the interest of time, we've got to get to this. So what I'm going to do here, and for those of you listening on audio only, we'll just explain this to you. So don't. Don't worry about it. I'm going to share something called the female delusion calculator. Okay? And this is a really interesting thing. Now, this is not a slam. And there is a male delusion calculator, too, or male reality calculator that we're going to get to right after. This is actual empirical data taken from the government. Okay? The government knows how old everybody in the population is. They know what gender they are. Guess what? The IRS knows how much money they make. And they also have massive studies on whether someone is obese or not. Okay. And those are some of the criteria you're going to see in here. Okay? And again, this is from the US Census and the nch. Okay? Now this is women looking for men, but then we're going to do men or. No, this is men looking for women then. Or wait, this is women looking for men. Yeah, and then we're going to go the other way. We're going to. We're going to look at both calculators, and I think this will be very interesting. So here is a female who's looking for a guy, and she wants a guy. Okay? So say she hit that mark where she's 34 years old. Is that a good number to picture?

Why not? Roundabout.

She's going to take a guy who's maybe, you know, 34 to 50.

50. Okay.

Yeah, yeah, sure. Okay.

Let me explain something here really quick. That's actually a good range because statistically speaking, and you won't find this in the. This is in the GSA general survey studies, women tend to be more attracted to and married men who are anywhere between three to seven years older than they.

Oh, yeah, that's obvious. We all know that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. So now what's interesting is there's a change checkbox to exclude married men.

You know, isn't that awful?

You're okay with that?

Okay, so we're gonna exclude married men and assume that you're not a home wrecker and you're. You're gonna get a single guy, right? Okay. So now let's say you're white. Okay? So we're gonna choose by race. There's three choices. White, black, Asian. Okay? Or. Or any color. And so we're gonna say, you know, you're looking for a white guy, right? Now, his height minimum 6ft. Should we go down a little bit? Let's just open it up. Let's go 5 11.

Okay, let me. This is the fun part right here, okay.

Because the average man is like five nine, I think. Right.

Well, if you go. If you look at the. If you look at dating data on, like, say, Tinder, Hinge, Bumble, women will. Because you. You can put in criteria in those dating apps. Okay? Six foot tall is usually where it.

They're.

They're like, Nothing lower than 6ft tall will be. Will be acceptable. However, let's. Let's go with 5:11, because the average height of the American male is 5:9.

Yeah. So this is a tall guy.

Then you're getting into very rare territory, Right?

Exactly. Okay, so now should we exclude obese?

Sure, why not? Who. How many women do you know who really go out and seek out fat guys? Are there any, like, big, beautiful dating sites?

Maybe they will. Right, okay, so, so now income, minimum income. How much do we want this guy to earn? And you know, I'm all into inflation, right? So we talk about this a lot. I don't think $80,000 a year is very much money anymore.

No. Do you know what the average income of a single man is in the United States?

No, I don't. Households.

$46,000 is 46,000.

Okay.

Couples wise, it's about 56. About 10, $10,000 more per year.

Okay, so we're gonna put that this woman wants a guy who makes at least $80,000 a year. And now we're gonna click the button.

That says, what percentage of the population is this guy?

Yeah. So this is a guy that's not married, white, at least 5 inches 11 tall, not obese, and earning over $80,000. There's only five criteria here, folks. It's not like there's a big long list. Okay, so here's the probability, and this is quite, quite literally empirical Data that says 0.95% of the population, less than 1%. Less than 1% meet your criteria. So what should we do? Let's go back and then we'll get to the male reality calculator here in just a sec. But let's just go back and let's make this a little easier. Okay? Let's say the guy only has to earn $65,000 a year. Okay?

That's still high for a single guy, but that's fine.

Okay, well, not if he's 34 to 50 years old.

True, true.

This is not a guy in his 20s.

You would expect him to make more money if he was in that age demographic. You're right.

Yeah. I mean, 65 grand for a 35 year old guy, you better be making that much.

Economically attractive.

So all we did here is lower the income by 50, 15,000 a year. Okay, now how many do we get? And this is empirical data. We get 1.3% of the population. This is not. Is he funny? Is he, you know, whatever else rocks your world, right? This is, I mean, this is just your. Oh, and it rings.

Yeah, you get your five. Five cat food bags or kitty litter bags.

It says, it says you are a cat enthusiast. Hilarious. Okay, okay, so I think Eric Clary.

Had a hand in that. Just saying.

Yeah. Yeah. You know what, let's check one more thing, Rolo. I want to do this because this is how far society has fallen. Let's uncheck the. Exclude married. Let's say you're willing to find a married guy and ruin the marriage. Okay. Let's exclude that. Okay. Which I can't believe is even a criteria they allow here, but we'll do it. Sure. Okay, so now we only have four criteria. White guy, 5, 11 or more. Not obese, earning at least 65,000. It's 6.2% of the population. If you'll wreck a home. Okay, 6.2%. Still a small number.

Three cats. You're aspiring cat lady now. You can wreck a home and be an aspiring cat lady.

Now here's the.

The real test though, because what eliminates a majority of the candidates is the obesity. Because you have to remember that 75% of the US population is overweight. And for men, 35% are morbidly obese.

Okay.

That's what limits most of this.

Let's uncheck the obesity thing and let's make it literally three criteria. So where'd that go? Oh, we gotta go.

You gotta go back.

Okay, so. So now we're going to uncheck obese. So you can have.

Do you want to put the married back on?

Yeah. Okay, so you're not going to wreck a home, but he could be obese. Okay, so let's find out how many of those there are. And only 65,000 years. 5, 11. Okay, so 2.3% of the population.

Yep.

Wow.

With those other criteria, that is nothing.

And.

This is unbelievable. How small.

Now let's try, let's try one more experiment here. Okay, go back, go back real quick.

Yeah.

Oh, yeah, yeah. There you go. Reset. So go. Okay. Keep everything else. We'll go with white. And then if you Go. And you take. Take the height down to about five, nine, because that's the average height of the American male. It's five, nine. Put, exclude. Well, actually, let's leave obese in there because we got it. We're trying to broaden the. Like. Let's, let's, you know, broaden to get some more selection. Let's get some more depth in the field here. Right.

Okay, so here we go.

Now, this my ideal man. This is a woman looking, right. So your probability. Okay, here's your criteria. Not married, white. At least 5.5ft 9 inches. And earning could be 80. Any weight. Doesn't matter on weight. Earning at least 65,000 a year, which I hardly think anybody thinks is a ton of money. That's only 4.1% of the population and 7 point and 7% of the white population. So the delusion score is three cat litter bags. Aspiring cat lady. All right. Yep. Let's do equal time. Let's look at the male reality calculator.

This is what men are looking for in women. I'm glad they did this too, because there's a lot of guys who want, like, their virgin bride and this hot girl and everything else and what they think they deserve.

Good luck with that. Yeah, you're not going to get it. So now let's see how delusional men are. Okay. Okay, you got two guys talking to you here. How delusional are men?

What do we want in a woman, Jason?

So what age is she? So say this guy is in that other age group. Say that guy is like 34 to 50 that she was looking for and just a moment ago. Okay, so the age.

So, no, no, no, no. Can't be the same cohort.

Go for younger women. That's why I was.

So let's say, let's say 25 to, you know, childbearing, kind of what's commonly considered. We'll go 25 to 35 years old.

10 years. Good.

Okay. Okay. Exclude married.

Okay.

And what about single moms?

Okay, single moms is what's going to throw. Is going to skew the. The, the average. But you can. Let's. Let's do that. Let's do our ideal first.

Exclude them. Okay. So no kids and not married. A single woman. And we'll do what's.

I'm good with anybody. If you want to. If you want to keep it white, we can do that.

Yeah, well, we were doing the other one.

Yeah, that's fine.

Now, height. What do we do there?

Average height of women, I believe, is 5 4. But. So I would start right around 5 4, and I would go as tall as, say, like. Like most women don't want a guy who is shorter than they are. So if you went to 5:9 or you went to. Let's go 5:11 as the max because.

Oh, wow. Oh, that's tall.

That's all. Yeah, because women want to talk. I mean, that is the number one most universal attraction cue for women is.

No, no, no. But this is. This is men.

I know, I understand that. But what I'm saying is, like, you got to remember that if. If you are under a particular. Like if you are over a particular height, you don't want a woman that's taller than you. So the average height of women is probably about 5 4, I believe, in the United States. But like, the maximum. You'll notice that the maximum height is here in the other one. It is like the minimum height because women tend to have height as one of their primary attraction cues in dating apps and stuff like that.

Yeah, you know what, Rolo? I think this probably should be about 5, 8 if you ask me.

Okay, well, let's do that. Because average Height of the US male is 5:9. So you don't want her any taller than the average guy.

Right, Right. Okay, so this is. So this is 25 to 35. 25 years old, not married, not a mom. White, five four to five nine.

Oh, wait, you gotta do. Exclude obese there. Exclude overweight or obese.

Okay, okay, okay. So exclude those just like before. Now, minimum income. The guy doesn't care. Okay, but he probably wants her to have a job. Right? So she, you know, to know she's responsible enough to have a job. Right. So we'll make $30,000 minimum.

Click that little check box over there, and that'll be the maximum. So what's the maximum you want to set it at?

Oh, like in other words, you don't.

Want her to earn more than X. Oh, good point.

So maximum. Let's go 60,000. Okay, so she makes 30 to 60,000 a year. Okay. All right. How many women fit this description?

Yeah. Fit the bill.

You males need to come down to reality here. Your expectations. Okay? Now, by the way, this does not say, are you attracted to her? Is she good looking? She just is a certain height, weight, you know, et cetera. Right.

Okay, so not married, no children, white, not overweight. 1.66 to 7% of the population.

1.6% of the population matches your desired.

Between those ages 25 and 35. Yeah.

Wow. Yeah.

Black pill doomers like the MGTOW community. The guys who are just like, you know, incels who are just like, hey, hate on life. They'll use this and go see, there's.

No reason to do it. Yeah, but this one, instead of aspiring cat lady, it's aspiring bachelor.

Three red pills.

Yes.

Yeah.

So Rolo, you want to tweak any of those? But I mean, that's.

Yeah, let's do one more. Let's do one more, folks. Okay, wait, let's. It do. Tweak it a little bit more. So what should we be tweaking?

Go back. Let's reset.

We're out of it now here. Let's go back. Okay, so what's the age?

Let's broaden the age group. Let's. Let's go 18 as the youngest because that's adulthood. Okay, that's just.

It's just.

So we got an idea. Between a certain age, it's not like, oh, we're gonna.

I mean, look, ideally any guy is gonna say, you know, under 30 if he wants to have kids would be. Be ideal.

Right.

Okay. Or maybe to 32. So what should we put in here?

I would leave it at 35. I mean, what's the. Because at any time. Well, really, at any age after 30, I believe women's chance of conceiving and carrying a child to term like, drops precipitously. But let's. Let's err on the side of being, you know, let's be a little bit.

But what if we don't like that? And what if we think that's unfair to say that? Rolo, you shouldn't say that. Oh, wait. You know, this whole.

Could the reply be trust the science?

It could be, you don't even need the science. Trust the statistics. That's all this is. It's based on research. Look at it again. It's Census Bureau data, it's GSS data, it's national healthcare data.

Yeah, I'm talking about the, the science of childbearing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I mean, if you go and you trust the science anyways, but I mean, you. There's lots of research about this when.

It comes to your vaccine and global warming. You better trust the science. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Okay. Do we want to open up the race to any, any race?

Well, let's keep it the same race because that's where we started. Okay. And let's keep the height the same.

Overweight, obese, nobody wants a fat, and.

The income's the same. Okay, so she's not going to make more.

Now all we've done is tweak the age. Like we broadened the pool a lot.

A lot. We open the age up.

There we go. Almost 3%.

It's 2.85%. That's still not nothing. It's unbelievable. I Love this.

Roughly 1.13 million women in the United States meet your ideal woman's standards, compared.

To 320 million people. That's like a needle in a haystack.

Okay.

Yeah. Good luck. Good luck finding her.

And they're all on only fans.

Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't mention she might be morally bankrupt. You know, it doesn't mention a million other things.

Records, right?

Yeah. Yeah. That's unbelievable. Well, Rolo, clearly there is a problem here. What are people to do? And let's wrap up today with this and you know, we can talk more, but another. Another day.

Okay, so let's see if I can. What's the prescription of optimism here? Yeah, what's the prescription? I don't deal in prescription. I deal in descriptions. But occasionally people ask me this question, like, what do we do? Wait for the meteor to come and crash into the earth? I think that it's probably a little bit more. We can think of things a little bit more optimistically. When you can do. You can do things to maximize your chances to actually, you know, get with that very slim margin of women out there who would meet your ideal standards. The other thing is this is lower your standards and most, most people will do that. It's one thing to say this is my ideal. It's another thing to say, well, she'll do or he'll do. And I think that for men, we have like. Men have a. Much. As much as women would like to, you know, preach the opposite. Men have a. We tend to be what's known as opportunistic breed.

Right.

We will take Nobody's ugly after 2am Right. If it's available and she's. She meets the minimum criteria, most guys will hit it. Right. For women, it's different because women's mating strategy is based on quality, not quantity. So women, especially today, believe that they are entitled to the high value man. We were just, you know, for the female delusion calculator. And nothing but the best will do. And if you want to know why, marriage rates are at the all time low right now since they started recording marriage rates back in the 18, like 1848, I think we are now at 5.1 persons per 1,000 in the United States that are married, which is the lowest it has ever been. Divorce rate, by the way, is also low because no one's getting married. So. And all of this, if you can trace all of this back to the sexual revolution and the advent of hormonal birth control, which is unilaterally controlled from, you know, more or less by women. So we have to go back and look at the. All of the changes that have happened societally from a gender specific perspective from about 1965, because that's when the pill was. Was invented and that's when the sexual revolution happened. And then the boomer generation and Summer of Love and you know, the 70s and disco and swingers and key parties and all that good stuff. And then so now here we are, sort of two generations, three generations since then. We're the product of all of that. So how do we like. Course. Correct. Well, I would say the first thing we have to do is we have to be a bit more realistic. Like look at stats like this and stop thinking about things in immediate terms and thinking like seeing the force for the trees. It's what Robert Greene calls thinking grand strategy versus thinking tactically.

And he's been on the show a few times too.

Oh, really? Yeah, I. Absolutely. There's two people I would be starstruck by if I was ever on the same show with them. Robert Greene is one and Gad Thought is another. Guys. Yes, most definitely. But I love Robert Greene's take on.

And by the way, he's written all those books, I mean, power and all of those books.

War, what is it? Artist, seduction, that kind of stuff. He's like, he's really a great thinker. I think he's one of the great minds of this era.

I mean, you read his stuff and it's just a whole history lesson.

Yes, yes. In 33 Strategies of War, he talks about the difference between strategic. Like grand strategic theory is thinking versus, like winning a battle versus winning a war.

Right.

So when women are looking for like the ideal guy, they'll go on fresh and fit, or they'll go into the calculator and they'll type in all this. This is what I want in a guy. Nothing else will do. Well, the problem is, as we've told we were just talking about this before, we teach women to be these strong, independent archetype trope right now and nothing else will do. So only the best will do. Well, the problem is that leaves women who are unmarried and increasing numbers. The fertility rate drops, marriage rate drops, forming families drops. Now, it might work great for corporate interests, like we were saying before. But the problem, problem is, is that until women become more realistic in their attraction, because it's not in women's sort of biological, evolutionary best interests to take some. To take a guy who is substandard and reproduce with that guy. That's in, in our, in, you know, their evolutionary memory. It is a death sentence to get with a guy who is substandard. They don't want to, you know, hitch their cart to a loser. And that's female mating strategy. And that's the biggest obstacle. I think, if you want to course correct, you've got to get around that because you' not going to tell a woman. You should take what you can get, girl. That's not going to happen. However, you do have to be realistic with women and hopefully a certain percentage of them. This sinks in and says, you know what? I know you've been told you've been sold this bill of goods, that you can have it all and you can be an astronaut and whatever Disney and Pixar told you when you were five years old, great. However, you need to think in terms of grand strategy as opposed to thinking thinking tactically. So you have got to, like I tell my daughter the same thing. My daughter's 24 years old. I tell her the same thing. I said, look, you're, you're at the top of your game right now, but you need to start thinking about the future. You need to start thinking about, do I want to be a mother? Do what? What do I want my life to look like when I'm 34? Because the landscape in 10 years is going to completely change for me to say that I sound like this misogynist for, for even, you know, judgmental for saying something like that. But men have to, especially fathers, have to risk that judgmentalism and be more judgmental. I think really everybody, society needs to be more judgmental and fearlessly, unapologetically more judgmental, because you're going to have more cases like Tinder, swindler, you know, women going, they do a whole documentary on something like that on Netflix, which could have been avoided had a father, a brother, a strong, conventionally masculine man come in and say, no, you're not doing that. If you can do that on a societal level where you say, look, here's the facts, here's the reality. The guy you want to get with represents less than 1% of the population. So if you're going to think in terms of grand strategy, you better take that into account before you start planning out the rest of your life.

Yeah, Rolo, by the way, I want people to have some context about you and know you have been married for quite a long time. You have a daughter who is, is 21. You have a 21 year old daughter, right?

She's 24. I've been married for. Well, in July I'll be married 26 years.

Okay, so you've been married 26 years, you got a 24 year old daughter. So it's interesting, you know, that you're out there talking about this stuff, right? And you know, because you definitely, you live in a home. Well, or at least lived. If your daughter's. She's probably out of the nest now, but nowadays you never know, they stay for a long time.

Yeah, yeah. Well, she, she just finished her postgraduate at unlv, so she's got a master's degree right now too. She's done very well for herself. She's a pageant girl. She's a very, she's. She's done everything by the book, you know, she's. She's very, she's. She's Rola Tomasi's daughter, put it that way.

Okay, so this is a great point. And before you go, and you alluded to it earlier, but we. I have not heard the word yet today. Hypergamy. Okay, so what I thought about when you told me your daughter, Daughter got her. That was a master's, you said. Yeah, when she got her master's. Now tell us what hypergamy is and how women always need to marry up as an evolutionary strategy. Right? So now your daughter needs to find a guy who has a PhD. If you're putting it in the, if.

You put it in socioeconomic terms, then yes, that would be true. However, hypergamy is a lot more than just. Just more than about economics.

So. Yeah, I get it.

So what hypergamy is. Is. And let me just as briefly as I can put this, hypergamy is that was coined by a sociologist back in the 50s. And I don't know the guy, his name escapes me right now, but he was studying the caste system in India at the time, you know, like the hierarchy. And he was noticing what that young women of a lower caste would, would have a tendency to marry into. Want to marry into a higher socioeconomic caste. So which makes sense, right? And so he called this hypergamy. There's this tendency for a woman to marry up. Now, since that time, we've broadened the definition of hypergamy to include what we call out. I'm going to be the say it politely. The alpha seed and the beta need side of it. So there's the hypergamy is really the dualistic nature of women's mating strategy. They're looking for the best guy. Who's the best specimen? Who is the hot guy in the foam cannon party? He's, he's hot. She's, he's represents good genetics. She really wants to have a good sexual experience with them. He's short term sexual, but he's somebody that she wants to breed with because he, look, he's like I said, six foot tall, he's got V taper, he's got chiseled jawline, very conventionally masculine. And then there's the beta buck side which again, for lack of a better term, he's the guy who's a good dad. It's like cads versus dads. And the dad side is the three Ps, as I mentioned before, which is provisioning, protection and parental investment. Rarely do those two ideal qualities meet in the same guy at the same time. And so rare is that we just looked at this on the calculator. So rare is that that women don't even look for that guy at particular times in their lives. So a girl who is between 18 and 28, she's not really thinking about the long term. As I said, grand strategy. She's only thinking about the here and the now because everybody's throwing everything at her. Because attractive young woman in that age demographic right there, she's, the world is her oyster. Until she gets 29, 30, 31 years old, which is average age of first marriage. She's checking out of the sexual marketplace and she's now no longer the criter. You'd love to get up with a hot guy, don't get me wrong. But the criteria have, the priorities of that criteria have changed. Now he's got to have a good job. Now he's got to have some sort of future. Now he's got to have some sort of like he's got to have a master's degree, right? He's got to be educated. And so now you're, you're, you're stacking the priorities in different, in a different order. Now they're still important. Maybe looks is now two on the list or three on the list. But he's got to love his mom and he's got to want kids and he's got to have a good job and he's got to be a good bet for the future. That's going to be different than when she's like say 18. And she's just like, let's go at spring break, let's go. Right. So that's the, that's essentially what hypergamy is. However, the other part of this is that women, when they are, instead of tending to marry up, they're tending to look up in this hierarchy of guys who are hotter than the last guy or are better candidates. So when we talk about an alpha male or a high value guy on the 10 scale, say a woman is like a six on a 10 scale, she believes that she needs to get with a guy who is at least a six. And if he's a six, she's looking for a seven. She would much rather get with a guy who is an 8, 9, or a 10, of course, if that's, if she could do that. But women are always looking up the sexual market value scale for, because they have what's known as an attraction floor, they can't get with a guy who is beneath them. They, like I pointed out this way, a woman cannot look up to a man who is her equal. She has to look up to a guy who is above her. At least whether that's socioeconomically, that status wise, that's looks wise, that's, look at all those criteria. He's got to be better than she is. If she's a 6, he's got to be a 7. And women who are 6 believe that they should get with a 9 because all their girlfriends on Instagram are getting with guys who are, you know, they're living their best life all the time and they look like they're living on vacation all the time now.

The fake life.

Yeah, exactly. So, so you've got women who are looking up that scale. And then you get to what's known as the 8020 rule, which is 100% of women want to get with the top 20% of guys. And the 80% of GU who are deemed as, quote, unquote, unattractive. They don't even figure, they don't even fat, they're invisible. They don't even factor into that. And even the guys who are the 20% are guys they might do. And then of that 20%, four and a half percent of those guys end up being the guys who are attractive and hot enough for women to actually want to initiate something with them to begin with, like whether that's on Hinge or Bumble or Tinder or whatever else it is. So you can see hypergamy played out in the dating market. Statistically, research wise, you can see how women like their, with their preferences and what they're looking for. When we're gathering data from like match.com or Tinder or Hinge or Bumble, hell, even Pornhub, if you go and grab those, those statistics and look at what the mating habits of like say Western nations are are, you can see hypergamy played out and proven statistically and empirically. Now for men, men do not have an attraction floor. As I said before, they tend to be, you know, scattershot. With our mating strategy, it's unl. Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. And what I mean by that, if you, if you don't believe me, all you got to do is ask. Let me ask you this, I'll ask you this question. Why is it that Porn is free, 4K streaming and ubiquitous right now? Because it, because it satisfies unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. At least vicariously anyway.

And, and novelty, there's not.

Yeah, exactly. Unlimited access to unlimited sexuality. And so men don't have that attraction for. So a guy who is a six would very much like to get with a seven, eight or a nine or whatever if he could. But no one's ugly after 2am, right. So a five or a four might do. In a pinch, you might be slump busting. But there's no attraction floor for men. Whereas for women, from a biological evolutionary perspective, they're looking for, at their. Like hypergamy never seeks its own level. It's always at its level or it's above. And it's like, you know, there's, there's a lot of weird wiggle room for men because it's like I want to get, I want to have that sexual experience because men are opportunistic breeders. So that's in a nutshell, that's kind of like hypergamy versus like men's mating strategy versus women's mating.

And you know, it's sort of obvious, right? I mean, women are the choosers. And that's why there's so much written about it and your work and all of the others in your field. Because women make the choice, they pick. Women are the evolutionary choosers.

Men perform, women decide.

Yeah, what's that, what's that saying?

Men perform, women select women.

And what's interesting about it too is women just kind of have to show up. But a man has to earn it. He has to do something with his life. He has to make an actual effort. Now granted, men must be calm.

Men must be calm and women just are.

Right? Yeah. Yeah. That's really quite interesting when you think about these dynamics more deeply like that. But it makes sense from just a biological standpoint. I mean, women have very few eggs, so they have to protect the choice of them. There's a timeline with pregnancy. Obviously men can just go out and keep spreading their seed, right? And so that's why the dynamic is. Is so different. It's just so vastly different. And that's why hypergamy has to exist, because women have a scarce resource and.

We'Re in a society that tells us we're all the same.

Yeah, what a myth.

Yeah, it's a total myth. Rolo, give out your website. Tell people where they can find you.

You can find me@the rationalmail.com that is my blog. You can also find me. I do a live stream at the very least once a week on YouTube. It is the rational mail. I'm usually on 1pm Pacific, 4pm Eastern time. I have five books in the Rational Mail series which are all available on Amazon. Just type in the Rational Mail and you'll find all five of them. The most recent one is the Player's Handbook, where I get into sort of the nuts and bolts of like, social dynamics. And. And it's not a how to book, it's a why, why It Works book. I also do Rule 0, which is our panel show, which is on Saturdays at 11:30am Eastern. And we sort of pass that around.

And I want to share with.

A deal. Rollo is. I mean, his original book. I'm looking at it on Amazon now. The rational mail has 5,800 reviews. Okay. I mean, how many books do you see with almost 6,000 reviews? His audio of that book or a different book has 1500 reviews. I mean, these are five star reviews. The volume three in the series on audio. Audio has 1326 reviews. I mean, how many books have you sold, Rolo? I mean, you're an amazing.

That's kind of difficult to say because I. It sort of depends on the book itself. The. The original book is in the millions right now, but the other books, it just kind of depends on the book. Like. Like book two is actually very, very popular. But in book five, I also did a book on religion as well. My. Actually, I guess I should tell you about the. About the series. The. The second one is Preventive Medicine. As I was saying before, it's based on a timeline of what men can expect from women at various phases of maturity. Then there was Positive Masculinity, which is book three. I wrote that because I had so many guys asking me like, oh, when should I give my sons your book and I'm like, don't raise your kids right. You know, if you go and set an example. But they wanted a book on red pill parenting and so I gave it to them. And I talked about, about social issues. Positive Masculinity is really more about social issues. And then, and then raising kids. And then, then I did Religion, which was a three year project that I put more time and energy into that book because I did Intersectional Dynamics in perspective of Belief. Religion, it's not bashing religion and it's not, it's not. If you're an atheist, don't think that it's going to reinforce your, your take. And if you're a religious person, don't think you think it's going to reinforce your take. Everything I do is always objective. I do my best. I have what, what Gad Sod says I have a, an obligation to objective truth. And that's what I try to present in all my books. And then of course the fifth one is the Player's Handbook, which is like why social dynamics work and like how you like. People always wanted to say, what's the best book on game Rolo? I'm like, I don't know, I guess I better write it. So that's, that's really what I did that.

Which by the way, let's just hope about that for a moment. So the left and the feminist crowd has been quick to bash this idea of men studying this stuff is, oh, it's evil. These guys are trash. And certainly there's no question there's a lot of trashy guys out there learning these things. Right? But how many women in the tens of millions, if not a couple billion, have had over and over again the experience of, you know, they know this guy, they like this guy. They so wish he would make a move. Like they're just waiting for this guy to make a move. And you know, he doesn't have the confidence. He doesn't know what to say, he doesn't think he's funny.

Whatever it is, he's oblivious.

Yeah. Or he's just oblivious and they want him to strike up a conversation to get the thing started. I mean, how many women have spent hours getting ready to go out at night, right. Or to go to some social event and it's like no guys approach them and they're just devastated. Right. You know, and this is why this is good for women, okay? This is women need men bettering themselves in, in all ways. And one of those ways is social skills. So, you know, what do you say to that? Because you've heard all the criticism.

Just to let you know a couple other statistics here. I've been doing this for 20 years. I started my illustrious.

When your daughter was four.

Exactly.

Yeah.

In 2002, I started working on. Well, I was working. I started.

Involving myself in the seduction communities at the time and the foreign forums and everything. Now, I was married back then, so I was not going out there and being anybody's wingman or anything, but I.

Was six years married.

Yeah, I was in a unique position because I worked in casino marketing. So I was doing promotions. I was always out in the clubs after that. I. Well, right around that time, about 2004, I got into working in the wine and spirits industry and so I was doing promotions for that. So I'm always out in the field. I'm always. I'm kind of like, you know, like Diane Fossey or Jane Goodall. You know, I'm like watching humans, you know, what are they? What's the. What's the male going to do with the female now? You know, like that. So I'm taking mental notes and then what I would do is I would bring it back to those forums and we would have discussions about that, which came became the blog posts, which became chapters in my book and which led up to me doing what I've been doing for 20 years now. And you are correct, because over the course of that 20 years, I've seen guys go from hitting on women in the clubs and running game on them in the clubs and whatever fashion that they're doing it to the point where, you know, you got eharmony and match.com and plenty of fish. And people wanted that buffer. They didn't want to really risk rejection. But they were at least on like match.com they were writing, you know, bios and profiles about them. Here's what I'm looking for in a woman. Here's look, you know, for a man. And now we've evolved from that, those profiles to. To Tinder, where all we're doing is swipe left, swipe right. Oh, here, he looks hot. He looks cool enough to hang out with. And the number one dating apps are really, you know, Tinder, Hinge, Bumble. And really the number one dating app in the the world is Instagram. Because if you meet a woman at the club, what's the first thing they do? Follow me on Instagram. They don't care about phone numbers anymore. Follow me on Instagram. Let me see if you're Cool enough for me to hang out with you. And then, then we'll go from. Are you. Do you have a blue check mark? Are you verified on any of these? That's just that that's a status symbol. And so we do things like the nature of human beings when it comes to like, wanting to get with another person, like, you know, heterosexually speaking, wanting to get to with that other person. The desire and the mechanics and the evolution and the human machine doesn't change, but the context in which we meet each other definitely changes. And you're exactly right. Most women, their number one complaint is guys don't approach. I go to all this trouble and I'm in the clubs and there, there's very few guys there in the first place. And the few guys that are there have the, have the sac come up to me and ask me out on a date. And they would say that, you know, the number one thing they want is it will be so refreshing for a guy to actually do an approach. Now the problem is most guys are scared shitless to do that because they're afraid of a sexual assault, you know, or sexual harassment. They're. They're afraid that they're going to blow it. They're afraid of rejection, really, more or less. But. But also there's an additive to that now, which is me too. And they don't want to, you know, only, only hot guys are allowed to approach guys, average guys. Guys are not allowed to approach because if they do, then it's a hate crime, right? Then it's like misogyny. Then it's. And so they, they simply say screw.

I know, that's what's interesting. You know, like, I always kind of have this funny idea in my head. I mean, Harvey Weinstein, for example, he's gross, right? I mean, I hope, you know, I think he has gotten.

And objectively.

Yeah. But I always wonder, what if Harvey Weinstein looked like Brad Pitt? What if he was an attractive guy? Like, would that have ever happened? Right? You know, would anybody have ever said, oh, you know, he did all these bad things, what if he was attractive? Right? Isn't that discrimination against ugly guys? Right? Like Harvey Weinstein, Right? You know, sort of like when you think of it empirically like that and you take the emotion out of it, you know, that's just the way it is. You know, it's. It's very.

Women. Here's what's happened. You know, remember we were just talking a little while about, like, what. What does societies look like when women organize societies? What does it look like when women control the purse strings or the economics of that society? The other thing you need to ask is what do, what does the sexual marketplace look like when it, when women are the ones who are deciding what is correct and what is not correct? And so in an era where like you've probably heard women say this before, I don't need a man. You know, a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle.

Yeah, but I want a man, okay? They don't need the guy. I mean, they perceptually anyways. They are, they're the strong, independent woman who can provide for their own long term security. They don't need the beta bucks, provider protector and parental investor guy because they can go have babies themselves by freezing their eggs or whatever. You know, women can electively have or not have kids these days. So what man do they want? They want the guy who looks like Brad Pitt. They want the guy who's the alpha C. They want the guy who's going to rock their world. That's what they're looking for. You want to know what you just asked me a minute ago? Like, how do we go forward? How do we change it? Well, you've got to make women aware of that and you've got to in some way find a way to say, look, you've been deciding who gets to even come up to you and ask you out on a date right now. Because if they don't meet your particular criteria, they go to jail. They're criminals for actually making that approach. Unless they're hot. And if they're hot, then it's then like you were saying before Harvey Weinstein, if he looked like Brad Pitt or Chris Hemsworth or something like that, we would be having a much different conversation. When that happened, when that, the Harvey Weinstein thing, what happened? I had this conversation with Rich Cooper. I said, why is it that a guy like Gene Simmons from Kiss is, doesn't have like me too charges just up and down, up and down the block? Because he's a rock star.

Because.

Because he's Gene freaking Simmons, that's why.

But he's not good looking.

Yeah. And Jean Simmons is not a good looking dude.

Right.

But he's, you know, look, he's, you know, arguably he's been with a lot of women. And you can make the same case for a lot of other guys who are good looking and are conventionally alpha that aren't getting me too'd. But the guys who look like creeps, those are the guys who are the first Ones to go down.

Yeah, right. I know. That's. That's really. If you think about that just objectively and empirically, that is so unfair. It just is.

But deserves. Got nothing to do with it, Jason.

Yeah, that's for sure. That's for sure. Well, Rolo, hey, thanks for joining us today. Really interesting and very long conversation.

Yeah, pick and pull what you want, man. We've turned it into three different shows. That's good for me.

All right. And the books are in all the usual places, of course. The reviews are incredible.

I should also add the Audible books. We just passed 200,000 units for the Audible books.

Wow. That's amazing. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I always say on my show, compared to what? Folks, this is in an era where if you sell. There are so many books in the world nowadays. If you sell over. Get this. You ready? 5,000 books. That is considered a really good success. I mean, if you're an author and you want to write a great American novel or a nonfiction book or whatever, and you sell 5,000, you are a rock star. And Rolo has sold millions of books. So check out his stuff. It's really enlightening.

It really is the rational mail on Amazon.

All right, Rolo, thanks for joining us.

You got it. Anytime, Jason.

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