1946: Apartment Rents Slow Down, Single Family Rent Index, End the FED, Shadow Banking, Central Banking 101, Joseph Wang, The Fed Guy Part 2

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Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants, and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now, here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 1946. Good to have you here with me today. And you know, we are starting off the new year with a bang. I hope your new Year's off and your resolutions are underway and you're making stuff happen. You're probably at the gym like most, most of the world, right? And the thing is stay consistent with it. You got to stay consistent with it, right? And that's what we're here to help you do for part of your New Year's resolutions maybe. And you know, we are starting off the new year. We just finished the holidays, but it's never too soon to plan another holiday. No, it is not. That's why we wanted to invite you to upcoming Empowered Investor Pro Cruise. Yes, we are doing a cruise now. This is a very casual event. It's really vacationing together, talking about business and investing, having a good time. This is not a conference, it's not a seminar. It's not. We won't be meeting in a room, sitting inside, you know, with slides on a screen or anything like that. I was actually invited to speak on this cruise ship and I thought, you know what, why not invite some of our pro members along? So if you're empowered Investor Pro member, join us, you've got the information there in our social network group. If you're not a pro member, all you have to do is become one and then sign up for the cruise and join us this is on one of the largest cruise ships in the entire world. Miami, Porto Costa, Maya, Cozumel. If you're a scuba diver, that's like one of the best places in the world. Or if you like snorkeling. It's going to be an awesome time five day cruise and that is March 4th through the 9th leaving out of Miami. So join us for that empoweredinvestor.com Cruise empoweredinvestor.com Cruise and we have Joseph Wang, the Fed guy back with us today. He was on the last episode and we're going to be talking more about monetary policy, the economy, what to expect, what to do about it and all of that kind of stuff. But I wanted to make sure I got this cruise announcement out there because other than the pro members who already know about it, it is our first announcement to everybody on the show here. So all you have to do is become a pro member. We'd love to have you get all kinds of benefits discounts in that group and then you can join us on the cruise as well. So it would be a great time to spend some time together. This is just going to be a small group, folks. This is not any big event. It's really an opportunity to vacation together. That's really what it is at its core. So join me on that. And you know, you've probably never seen me relaxed. I'm not very good at relaxing, but I will my best on the cruise ship. You know, we'll, we'll have some drinks and some fun and we'll do some snorkeling or scuba diving and enjoy some sunshine and good times and build some good lifelong relationships and friendships. So join us for that empoweredinvestor.com Cruise for that. But let me go over a couple things before we get to our guest today, Joseph Wang, who's back with us. The Fed guy is back with us. And just got to move something here on my screen. So apartments why have talked a bit about how rent calculations are not very accurate because they mostly include apartment surveys rather than single family home surveys. And that is really important because if you're watching me on video right now, you see on the screen, I've got this article up here that says apartment rent to keep slowing this year. I've talked to you before about how multifamily units are oversupplied in the marketplace. There really is a glut of these with so much coming on the market. There's been so much construction. You know, any American city you go to, there's just tons of Apartment complexes under construction. So the demand was there, but now that market's looking a little bit oversupplied for sure and it'll eventually get absorbed, but again that takes some time. So when you see these rent statistics or hear them or whatever, remember they are heavily weighted on the apartment side of the equation. There is not good rent data for single family homes. Okay, so just wanted to share that with you. Now this chart actually shows it more graphically, which is really interesting. And again, this one's from CoreLogic. Okay. Here you see rents going up and down, but obviously the broad trend is definitely up over the years. And you see all of these different price tiers of these rents, right? And you see that it's softened a bit. But the question is, compared to what? I mean, look at how high rents have gone up. They have just skyrocketed over the last few years. And so like appreciation in the cyclical markets and like the oversupplied apartment market, they're going to give a little bit of that back. I mean folks, for all of you who own properties in cyclical and hybrid markets where you have seen just massive dramatic out of this world appreciation, did you really expect to keep all of that? I mean, seriously, you know, if you could perfectly time the market, you could sell at the top and buy at the low point, buy in the valley, sell at the peak, right? But no one can do that perfectly. Nobody does it perfectly. It is a fool's errand. The thing to do, the strategy that actually works in real life over time for the mass majority of people, is to simply buy good properties that make sense the day you buy them and hold them for the long term. And so this chart shows home price appreciation by price tier. And this data is a little bit hard to come by. It's very infrequent in the way it's cited. Usually they're just citing overall numbers and sound bites. But what I want to impart to you here, and if you're watching on the video show you on this chart, is how the lowest priced properties, those entry level properties, appreciated the most. Now this probably doesn't amaze you. I need a little sound effect for that one. Yeah, it probably doesn't amaze you too terribly much. But just think about why this is true and you think about this massive number of households that have formed over the last 12 years, last 14 years, coming out of the depths of the Great Recession, just a monumental number of new households and a extreme shortage of of entry level home supply. So that's obviously One reason the affordable houses are sought after by investors like us. And so those are the best properties to invest in because they have the best rent to value ratios, they make the most sense to buy and they are just looking very, very good. The demographics coming at the rental housing market and the investment housing market over the next decade are, are phenomenal. Now this will peter out, okay? This will not last. We are going to move into a time after this decade where things start to get more questionable. If you're a student of the fourth turning, you know, we really kind of enter most of that fourth turning in the early 2000-30s and it'll be interesting to hear this show on Flashback Friday in 10 years, right? Won't it? That's the great thing. You know, you can go back and listen to my content for 17 years, think about that, hold me accountable, listen to my old shows. Of course you get some on Flashback Friday. But go in and just pick up some of those old episodes and listen to them and tell me what you think of all the predictions I made back then. I'm pretty darn good at this. Except for interest rates. I absolutely suck at predicting interest rates. So don't take my word for it on that. But on this other macro stuff, these other trends, I mean, when you've been doing this for so long and you look at all the this data and you're constantly reading articles and you're just constantly immersed in this, you really get a sense of where it's going and where it's going, the broad macro term, regardless of the recession that will, I mean, they got to declare a recession this year. I mean, it's hard to say we're in one because not exactly employment is so good. How can we be in a recession? Yada, yada, yada. But overall, I mean, I think we're gonna hear about a declared recession this year. That doesn't mean there's a housing recession though. That doesn't mean there is an oversupply because there's a massive undersupply, especially in the low priced entry level homes. And the next 10 years are looking pretty darn great for investors. So keep that in mind. Okay, what else do we have? Oh, this is interesting too because you know, you're hearing about how, oh, inventory is up, inventory is spiking, right? Oh, the housing market, it's doom and bloom. But they're so wrong because they never ask and they never answer the Jason Hartman question. Compared to what? Right, compared to what? Yeah, it's up from extreme massive shortages. But it is still very, very low historically. So when you look at this chart that I've got on the screen here, we've got several markets shown. Charlotte, North Carolina, Denver, Las Vegas, Nashville, the general Northwest region, San Diego, California, of course, Santa Clara, California. And we see the inventory levels in 2021, December of 21, November of 22, and December of 22. Right. So we get this year over year comparison and we see that inventory levels year over year up in most of these markets, and mostly the cyclical markets, with the exception of San Diego. And I'm not sure why that is the case. I have to delve. There just must be something going on there or maybe the stats are wrong, I don't know, because that does seem very odd to me. But look at Santa Clara, California, inventory up year over year by 79.9%. Let's just call it 80%. But. But the interesting thing is month over month, inventory way down in all these markets. Now, I've talked to you before about how when you move into a new year, it does take a little bit of time to get into the new year and kind of catch the vibe of it. And we're gonna be talking about that a lot at our upcoming Empowered Investor Live conference that is almost sold out. So if you want to join us, grab a ticket. Also, we did decide just yesterday afternoon that we are going to be offering a live streaming option because several of you have asked for it and we want to offer that for you. And then of course, if you can't attend, you can get the recordings. We will make those available after the event. But there is a special deal on the recordings if you attend the live event. So it's kind of worthwhile economically. And you really just get so much more out of attending a live event, especially the networking and the new friendships, the new relationships and the stuff that you kind of casually talk about with people and casually hear, you know, having your ear to the ground, so to speak. And if you can attend live, you definitely want to join our Empowered Investor Pro group and join us on the upcoming cruise too. Okay, so lots of opportunities to connect with us. And let's go ahead and get to our guest, Joseph Wang. He's here for the second time and we will dive into part two with the Fed guy. So here we go.

But if you have a time when these different types of money can't be converted, then you can easily lead to panic, and that leads to a lot of disruption. Now, I'll give a couple examples. So the classic panic, of course, is if you have a bank deposit, but you can't convert that to currency. So you show up at a bank, you ask to withdraw money because you want some currency. Bank says, you know, I don't have any currency.

That's what James Stewart says. And it's a Wonderful Life, right?

Yeah, then. And then, you know, you have tremendous panics. So that actually used to happen a lot throughout the history of the US So bank would run out of currency, everyone would think that the bank is going under. Then you could have long lines outside of the bank, everyone trying to withdraw. And the bank which actually was in good condition, suddenly is in bad condition because they have to fire sale some assets to make those withdrawals. And then, you know, that's bad for the economy, bad for the markets. Another example where money can't is not convertible would be what happened in March 2020. So in March 2020 you had a whole bunch of investors like who held Treasuries as their form of money and they went to their broker and they tried to sell the Treasuries for cash. What happened back then was that individuals were going to their investment manager and asking for cash because you're worried the investment managers then would have to sell some of their treasury securities to raise cash and meet the redemptions. The problem was that all the big investment community people showed up at their broker dealers, tried to sell the Treasuries and they weren't able to. They weren't able to sell their Treasuries. Now that's just bizarre. It's just exactly like showing up at a bank and not being able to get currency out. So that led to a huge panic where everyone sold everything to try to get some cash. So investment managers sold corporate bonds, sold equities. It was a mess. And you saw that happen with the markets tinking until finally the Fed stepped in as kind of like the lender of last resort function and bought all those Treasuries off those investors indirectly. So that restored the convertibility between Treasuries and bank deposits. So that solved the crisis. So you really, really need to have this lender of last resort, the Fed there maintaining that convertibility between different types of money.

Would it be fair to say that you would not be on the camp like many are, that wants to end the Fed? I mean, it is your former employer. But do you agree overall with the idea of having a central bank like the Fed and their ability to create money, or do you have this possibly more idealistic opinion like me that thinks that, hey, the Market should just regulate the money supply by market forces, or am I out of my mind?

I would say that the Fed is a product of market forces. I mean, if you look at the history of the US and look at any other history throughout any country, that they evolved through market forces to have a central bank to act as lender of last resort because that's the institutional arrangement that worked the best. So before the Fed you would have all sorts of banking panics and it was not just in the U.S. but it's the same problem throughout history and across different countries as well. And because everyone faced the same problem, they all evolved a similar solution. A central bank acting as lender of last resort. So I would say that they are. The Fed is actually a product of market forces. However, the Fed today is very different than what it was initially. It does a lot more than act as lender of last resort. What we're seeing in the central bank community is that the central bankers are basically expanding their mandate from purely lender of last resort to all sorts of other things. For example, one of the things that the Fed just announced is that they want to put climate stuff in bank regulations. So in practice what that could be is that they can make it very costly for a bank to offer loans to, let's say the fossil fuel industry, because the fossil fuel industry is, according to them, bad for the climate. So what's happening is that the Fed as central bank is being more than lender of last resort, but actually micromanaging the allocation of credit in the economy through their regulations. And this is happening in the Eurozone as well and probably other countries.

I can see that trickling right down to wokeness and social credit scores and your own CBDC on your phone that if they don't like what you say, you're going to pay a higher interest rate.

Right, and that's another good point. You mentioned cbdc. That's, that's, that's central bank digital currency. Yeah, yes, exactly. And where are the cdbdcs most popular in the world? They're in authority in countries like China, which has their own cbdc. Yeah, Try doing anything bad within. In China you lose everything. You have your CBDC revoked, you basically be on the streets. So it gives the central bank a lot more power than their initial mandate. And I think that's where the problem is, that they're going beyond what they're supposed to be doing.

Yeah, it's true. Okay, one last question about this in the next chapter where you talk about shadow banks, these other Organizations that aren't really the banks, but they're like the shadow banks. You talk about primary dealers, money market mutual funds, exchange traded funds or ETFs, mortgage REITs, real estate, investment trust, private investment funds and securitization. I really only want to ask you about one of them just in the interest of time and then get on with what we can expect in the future. And that's the primary dealers, because people hear that phrase a lot, right, in the financial media. What is a primary dealer? Explain that to our listener. What is that? What does it mean? What do they do? And what is the impact on regular people?

Yeah, so the dealers are actually the most important part of the financial system that most people have never heard of. So before I joined the Fed, I was very familiar with what a dealer is. I guess I would, I would think of the dealer like, kind of like a supermarket for financial products. So for example, if you are an investor and you have a corporate bond or a Treasury and you want to sell that to get cash, what you have to do is you have to call a dealer and dealer would give you, quote you a price and then you sell it to the dealer. What the dealer does then is they hold on to that treasury or corporate bond or something and then sell it to one of their other clients. So the dealers basically sit in the center of the financial system by making, making markets. If you want to do some really fancy derivative thing, some kind of, let's say a CDS or a swap or something like that, then you have to do it with a dealer. So the dealers stand in the middle, they take principal risk sometimes, or sometimes they just put two, two clients together who want to do the same trade. So they're kind of the glue that keeps the financial system together. A primary dealer is a special kind of dealer, one that's able to trade with the Federal Reserve. So it's a special designation that you, you have to apply to get. And if you can trade with the Fed, it comes with some advantages. You can have access to some of the Fed's special lending facilities, but it also means that you're kind of a conduit through which the Fed implements monetary policy. Again, going back to quantitative easing. When the Fed goes out and they buy a lot of Treasuries, they're buying them from the primary dealers because the primary dealers are basically only people the Fed is willing to trade with. So you become part of the apparatus, limits monetary policy.

And these are private firms, right?

These are private firms. And they are.

And why aren't they called brokerage firms? I mean, aren't they just brokers?

So a broker and a dealer, they're usually called broker dealers is the term actually.

Right, sure.

But a broker and a dealer, a bit, a little bit different. So a broker is someone who doesn't take principal risk. So if you're a broker, pure broker, you have someone who's a seller, then you go out and you find someone else who's a buyer.

They take principal risk because they actually buy the asset and then resell it.

Yes, exactly.

So they take, they're, they're not a consignment store. They're actually buying the asset and then.

Yes, exactly, exactly. Right. They're, they're buying the asset. So that's why they're important. Because, for example, going back to March 2020, when everyone wanted to sell their Treasuries to get cash, well, then they have to sell it to a dealer. And the dealers are very big, but they're not infinite. So it's possible for them to not be able to buy any more securities and they can't buy anymore. Then there's no liquidity. You can't turn your Treasuries into cash.

Then the liquidity seizes up and the system seizes up. Right, exactly. Okay. And that's very bad. And that happened during the Great Recession. That precipitated the Great Recession.

Exactly, exactly. So back then, one of the dealers is going to go under and the other dealers weren't really sure who else was also going to go other. So they wouldn't trade with each other. So there was no liquidity.

So who are these dealers? Have we ever heard these company names, the names of these firms? Does anybody.

Everyone's heard of them. They're the biggest banks throughout the world. So there's a list of them on the New York Fed's website. I think there's 24 now. You know, it's the who's who of big banks. You know, jpm, Goldman Sachs, a lot of foreigners as well, Barclays, they're just.

The big players that we've all heard of. It's just they have a certain division of that company that is a dealer.

Exactly, exactly.

Okay, good. All right, well, hey, let's roll into what people can expect. I mean, we've seen some big changes we went from this time that a lot of people are wrongly using as a benchmark, like the last two years, which are just a total outlier. And I don't know why anyone would compare anything to the last two years because that's just an outlier. Okay. A once in a many lifetime event. What can we expect going forward?

I think we're at the cusp of a fundamental regime change in how the economy operates. And so what we see in the future will not be what we have in the past, and I'll tell you why. So the biggest change that's happening right now is that we are having a structural decline in the labor force. So for all of, you know, all of the history of this country, at least we had a continually growing labor force.

Right.

But the boomers had smaller families. So now as time goes on, the amount of people who are the labor force, the prime labor force, is decreasing. So we're not going to have a constantly growing labor force that has tremendous, tremendous implications because that means we have a structural shortage of labor and we have a structure.

Unless automation fixes that.

Yeah, that's possible. And you know, we have some pretty promising advances in AI, but you know, that's always speculative to see how technology would change. But at the moment, what we see so far is that this is, this was always going to play out, but it's actually happening earlier than thought because the boomers have retired earlier than expected. So the labor shortage that we were always going to have is happening now. And we see that everywhere in the US and as well as in other countries, let's say Canada and Western Europe as well. So when you have very low unemployment rates and you have, have wages continuing to increase, that, that's, that's shortage of labor and it's everywhere.

And that is very wage inflation is very inflationary, right?

Yes.

Yeah.

Wages are the largest input to any surface. And when you have wages going higher, that means the prices of those services are also have to go higher to, to pass that cost up. So that's what I look, that's what I think is going to happen in the next next decade, for the foreseeable future. We have constantly rising wage inflation from structurally shortage of labor. And that has big implications because it changes where interest rates will be and it also changes the Fed's reaction function. So in the past few decades, whenever we had a recession, that was really because there wasn't enough demand. So let's say you're a factory, you can produce 100 cars a year. When there's not enough demand, then you're producing less and then prices go lower because you're trying to sell more to try to get rid of your inventory. So that's what a recession is. You were producing 100 cars. Now you're producing 99 because there's not enough demand. And what the Fed would do then is they would cut interest rates to try to stimulate demand, so to keep employment back up and keep inflation back higher. But now when you have a recession, and of course we'll now the economy is always heading into a recession because things are cyclical. It's not because there's not demand, but it's because there's not enough supply of labor. So if that same factory could be producing 99 cars instead of 100 because they can't find enough employees to operate it. So that's really different because when you have less supply driving your recession, you still have less output. And that's what a recession is, a decline in real economic output. But the implication is that one, prices will continue to rise because you have demand for your cars. It's just that you can't make enough of them. And it also means that rather than the Fed cutting rates to try to stimulate demand, the Fed is going to be raising rates to choke off demand. And you know, if that's the case, if we do have a structural shortage of labor going forward, then we can expect interest rates to stay high for the foreseeable future.

Interesting.

Even if we have a recession now.

Those rates would stay high, but we'd also have inflation at the same time, right?

Yeah, yeah. So there's another way to think about this. So Fed has full employment and price stability as their two mandates. But the twos often are in conflict because when you raise rates, you usually jack up unemployment even though you get prices down and vice versa. But if you have structurally shortage of labor, then you could just worry about one thing that is inflation. And so that can encourage you, gives you the political cover, so to speak, to keep rates higher than the market expects. And I think that most people, most. It seems to me that most investors haven't really digested this fundamental change in how the economy is working. And that's why they still think that the Fed is imminently going to cut rates and make recession go away. If the recession is due to supply constraints, then, you know, cutting rates doesn't actually fix anything.

So when you say high rates, does that mean where we are now or higher?

I think 5% federal funds rates? And I think that the longer end would probably go higher as well, in my view. And that has to do with the fact that the US Government is selling a lot of debt. If you look at the deficit, the deficit for the US is about a trillion dollars a year. And it's forecast to continue to grow for the next decade. The supply of treasury securities, so to speak, is continually increasing every year in a way that is obviously not sustainable. So you're going to have to find new investors who are willing to buy treasury securities at a time when inflation is high. So that likely suggests to me that the market clearing price for Treasuries, the market clearing yield is higher than it is today and will remain that way.

And so in that environment where you have high inflation and high rates at the same time, which is the environment we have now, basically. But you're just saying that'll continue. What gives? I mean, my answer is the standard of living just declines. Is that true in your eyes?

I think it's good for labor and bad for capital. It's basically going to be a reversal of what we saw in the past few decades. Because again, if you have in the.

Past few decades, we saw everything being really good for capital and bad for labor.

Yeah. So if you, I mean, look at financial assets, look at, let's say you're a boomer, you bought a house in California for $50,000. My gosh, you're like a multi millionaire today. But things, things change though. So it's kind of like oil, for example. Let's say you have a shortage of oil, the price of oil goes higher. Then if you're a producer of oil, then obviously it's good times for you. And in the same way, if you have shortage of labor, then the people who actually work for a living, well, they're going to have their wages go higher and you know, they're going to do better. And, and that's bullish for things that I think the consumers purchase. And that could be things like consumer discretionaries, cars, things like that. So you probably have to do more analysis because there's also a supply side, not just a demand side. But if you're just someone who had a whole bunch of money that was investing well, I think inflation is probably going to roll bad.

Yeah. The problem is though, is it bad for capital and good for labor? The problem is all of those people laboring to earn their incomes, they have to go out into the marketplace and try to buy a car and finance it and buy a house and finance it. And it's not good for them in that respect, I mean, unless their wages beat the high rates and the high inflation at the same time, which is extremely unlikely in my eyes because if wage inflation is 8% a year, which is pretty good. Right. That'd be a high COLA adjustment. Cost of living adjustment. And if inflation is the stated rate is 8 or 9%, and then you also have to pay high rates to borrow to buy your car or your house or pay your student loan or your credit card debt, you're falling way behind. And of course, we know the official rate of inflation does not reflect the real rate ever, or at least not since 1980 or so.

No, no.

I don't know. I don't know if it's really good for labor.

You make a really good point. And so wage inflation has, on average, not caught up with actual inflation. So people are getting a decline in their real wages, but that's actually not uniform across all spectrum. If you are actually low wage, you are actually getting increases in real terms. And I think that we're just in the beginning of this transition. So I think as time goes on, wages will continue to increase, but inflation will moderate a little bit. So I think we'll see more real wage increases across the spectrum. I think this. Because we're just pretty early into this, this process.

So you're saying the wages you think could beat inflation? The problem is I don't think they'll beat high interest rates at the same time, but at least they'll beat inflation, hopefully.

Yeah. So I, I think real interest rates would have to be relatively higher as well. The way that I think about this is that, let's say. So if we can assume that we are having a decrease in supply of real goods and services because there's a shortage, then you can think of it as having, you know, 10 people to feed, but only having food for nine people. So how do you square that? One way you can square that is having high real interest rates and encouraging one of them to not eat so to give up their food today so someone else can eat today and in return for having more food later on in the future. So that, that's another way. I mean, so there are two ways to do this. One is that you spread out the nine meals to 10 for 10 people. That's inflation. Right. Eroding. Eroding your.

That's. That's shrinkflation.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. Another way is just higher interest rates. You encourage one of them to not eat so someone else can eat. And that's what higher interest rates do. They encourage people to not consume today and consume tomorrow instead. And what they're not consuming today, someone else gets to consume it.

Yeah, good point. But the thing that could save us from the labor shortage is automation. Yes. And you know, I, I've talked about This a lot over the years. It's, it's, it's fascinated and scared me because you know, if you just look at transportation alone now look, self driving vehicles have been really slow coming, but they're gonna get here, okay. And you know, transportation is one of the biggest industries on earth. I mean all these drivers that drive things and you know, Ubers and UPS and everything and you know, there's drones maybe to replace them with deliveries, you know, if you just displace those people. Wow, that's a lot of unemployment.

Jason. What if one day we get robots that can build robots too, right?

Oh, of course, yeah. That's how we're going to conquer the universe is through particle replicators that go and build everything when they get to the new planet.

I think that's a really good question. But then when that happens, it's going to be a question of, it's a political question of how you distribute all that stuff. Because if you have a lot of productivity, you're going to have a lot of goods and services and you have a lot of people who are not working because we don't need them anymore. So then we're going to have tremendous movements for, let's say socialism or even communism. And I don't know, maybe the system will work when we have superabundance, I don't know. But yeah, we'd probably have some kind of political revolution when we get there.

Yeah, yeah, no, it's times, they definitely are changing, there's no question about that, that's for sure. Joseph. Joseph, give out your website or whatever you'd like and wrap it up with any closing thoughts. This has been a fascinating discussion as always.

Sure. Well, first of all, I appreciate you reading my book. So if you guys are interested in learning more about the financial system and central banking, I have a book, Central Banking 101. There's also a website, but it's available on Amazon, have a few hundred five star reviews. So it's, it's been very helpful from the feedback that I get. And if you're interested in having more timely insights on what's happening in the markets, I also have a blog, it's called fedguy.com Excellent, very good.

Yes, you have 463 reviews and they're like 4.7 stars. So congratulations on that, that's excellent. Good stuff. And Joseph, I think you're joining us for our collective event in Jekyll Island, Georgia, right?

Yeah. You know, I've heard so much about Jekyll Island. It's A storied place, and I'm really looking forward to being there.

Yeah. I tell you, folks, if you're thinking of joining our collective mastermind group, it is such an awesome group. We do these f. Fantastic. We do four events per year, and then we have zoom meetings all the time. I took my mastermind group, my old mastermind group, about five years ago to Jekyll Island, Georgia, and we had our meeting in the Federal Reserve room, and we're repeating that now for the collective. We're having our meeting in the room where they formed the Federal reserve just over 100 years ago. It's a beautiful resort. I mean, all these elites back in the day, you know, that's where they went to make the Federal Reserve. So that's where we're going, and that's just a few months away. So, you know, go to thecollectivemastermind.com if you'd like more info on that, or just reach out through jasonhartman.com we're happy to help on that. And I'm looking forward to hearing your speech at that event, Joseph. It's going to be great. I mean, you are the Fed guys, so we have to have you speaking, and we're looking forward to that. So good stuff. All right, thank you, Joseph, and thank you, everybody, for listening. And until next time, happy investing.

Bye.

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