2070 FBF: Kare Anderson - Hidden Behavior Cues That Boost or Bust Credibility

Today we have Flashback Friday and a 10th episode show. All of you regular listeners know that every 10th episode we do a topic of general interest. It always seems to relate to finance and success in life and success with our portfolios. But the topics are More General. Every 10th episode show and today we combine a flashback Friday with a 10th episode.

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Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your Financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show. Episode number 757, 53/4 of a way of the way to 1,000 episodes. And that of course means this is a tenth show episode. So we're going to talk about something of general interest and life success. And speaking of which, how about that election? Wow, what a, what a historic upset. The silent magician majority has spoken and they want a change. They want to drain the swamp if you will drain the swamp of these corrupt, crooked, crony capitalist career politicians. And listen, I do, I, I am not saying for a moment that Donald Trump is the perfect candidate.

After all of the crazy stuff that he said, possib for entertainment, values, sensationalism, media attention, who the heck knows, who the heck knows what the idea was behind it. But he certainly is a master manipulator of the media. We will see how it all turns out. But I tell you, I have been so disappointed with our government for so many years that I'm willing to give it a try and, and to be optimistic about this presidency. So it certainly will be the most interesting presidency of my lifetime, probably of your lifetime if you look at it from the two poles of our political spectrum, the left and the right. The big government, intrusive over regulated philosophies that we've had really for the better part of 50 years that include massive debt, government entitlements, distractions the politics of race, the politics of gender, the politics of.

Things that really are.

You know, largely, I mean, I don't know, am I totally crazy? Am I wrong about this? You tell me. I'm sure you will, by the way. But.

Largely a country is.

At some level, at many levels, a country is a business. And with all of these politics that we've had, this political correctness that we have had for decades, we have tried this. Obama promised to be the great uniter. He promised to reach out to people who were disgruntled, to unite the races, to reach out to other countries. He went and he spoke in Cairo and he reached across to the Muslim populations of the world. And this was his big promise. And where did it get us? I don't know. I haven't been too impressed. The threat of terror has been worsened. Look, I don't know. You can hear the hesitation in my voice with every word I speak. I don't know. I have been massively disappointed. Obamacare has been a disaster, an epic disaster. And it's still so early. Dodd Frank, something that affects us in real estate dramatically has been a disaster with all sorts of the usual unintended consequences that basically ultimately result in, in making everything more costly and making the marketplace smaller. So if a Trump administration can do nothing more than repeal Obamacare, my health insurance costs have gone up 35% since Obamacare. And that's just the cost of the actual insurance. Not to mention the higher deductibles, the inferior coverage, the higher co pays, co pays have doubled. That's a 100% increase. Yes, I understand that it's only 25 to $50 and the likelihood is we think that's nothing. But remember, just like rent to value ratios on our properties, we must consider everything in percentages. So that is a 100% increase. Okay, to think properly, you need to think in percentages. Remember, I've always talked about that as a, you know, when we talk about the more detailed real estate concepts out there. But yeah, you know, folks, it's time to try something different. For the better part of five decades, the country has list far to the left. Now, many have accused Trump of being a liberal. He was a Clinton supporter, you know, so who the heck knows what to think? But at least, even if he is a leftist, even though I know all of my listeners, my dear friends on the left are thinking, Jason, are you crazy? He's not a leftist. He's not on the left side of the political aisle. He's a right wing wacko. They'll say, well, I don't know. I don't think he is. I think he's got some liberal tendencies. But look, we have been going galloping towards socialism and galloping toward the left side of the political aisle for decades now. The last time you could even argue that we had a president who was not on the left, and in many ways he even was, was Ronald Reagan. Okay, welcome to this week's edition of Flashback Friday. Your opportunity to get some good review by listening to episodes from the past that Jason has hand picked to help you today in the present and propel you into the future. Enjoy. So that's where we are, folks. Congress has been dominated, controlled by the left for the better part of five decades, 50 years. And when I say that I am not just drawing party lines of red and blue there, of right and left, I am talking about RINOs, the people who are the Republicans in name only RINOs. They are leftists. George Bush, he was a spender. He had a lot of very left wing policies. So we've tried that. And where has it gotten us? The Democrats claim to have been fighting poverty for five decades.

How they doing on that? How's that working out? What's their report card like? Yes, they've succeeded in creating a dependent class of voters. So for them, yeah. But objectively, has the war on poverty worked? No, it certainly hasn't worked. It's time to try something else, folks. And that's what the country has spoken. That's what the country wants. They don't want political dynasties. We don't need to see another Clinton, another Bush, another Kennedy in office. Hopefully we will never see that again. I hope Chelsea has no political ambitions. We need change. We need something different. We need term limits. We need.

Oh, God. You know, look, folks, this is going to be the most entertaining and interesting presidency ever. And there is going to be a lot to talk about over the next four years on this podcast. I will never be at a loss for content again.

So good, bad or indifferent, there's going to be a lot to talk about and we'll talk about that on future episodes. So, look, this is all new, but I think that those of you on the left who want to see higher wages, who want to see, you know, these various, various legislation to increase minimum wage, well, if we control the borders for the first time in our history, if we actually do that, wages will naturally rise. And these trade agreements.

Where Clinton has sold you down the river, the American worker has been epically screwed by its own government. And all of you folks in the unions and you skilled workers out there listening to this, you know, I think Trump could really do you some good. I think he could really see jobs coming back to the U.S. higher wages, borders that are actually controlled for the first time in history. It's worth a try, folks. We've tried the other methods and they have not worked. So let's be united. Let's be optimistic, at least for a little while. Give the guy a try. I'm willing to give him a try, even though I have been appalled at some of the things he has said. Maybe it's just sensationalism, maybe it's playing the media. I do not know. None of us really know. Only he knows. Everything will be revealed in due time. So let's just sit tight and see what happens. Okay, so Today is a 10th episode show. We're not going to talk about our usual real estate investing stuff. Today we're going to talk about general interest and life success. So let's get to our 10th show guest and stay tuned. The next four years is going to be incredibly interesting. There's going to be a lot to talk about as we move toward episode 1000. Yes, we're three quarters of the way there. It's going to be a lot of interesting stuff. All right, let's get to our 10th show guest today, Kari Anderson, and talk to her about some general interest topics.

It's my pleasure to welcome Kari Anderson to the show. She is an Emmy award winning former NBC and Wall Street Journal reporter. She is a Connective Behav speaker and we'll ask her what connective behavior is and a columnist for Forbes and the Huffington Post. Her clients are as diverse as Salesforce, Novartis, San Francisco Giants and the Cole Foundation. She's a founding board member of Annie's Homegrown and co founder of get this nine political action committees. Really looking forward to diving in with her and learning about connective behavior. And she's on a TEDx committee as well. So we're going to ask her about the TED organization and that kind of stuff. Kari, welcome. How are you?

I'm fine, Jason. I was rather impressed seeing all the things you've accomplished.

Well, thank you. And thank you for joining us today. So first of all, give our listeners a sense of geography. Where are you located?

I'm in Sausalito, a little village over the Golden Gate Bridge from San Francisco.

One of the most beautiful places in the world.

A lot of quirky people here. I feel quite at home.

Quirky people and inexpensive Real estate. Just kidd.

Yeah. Well, good. Well, what is connective behavior?

It's the ways that we find that we get along, we like and admire each other rather than being offended or irritated or bored. Because, of course, that's the first step and a genuine way for us to want to build a relationship or even do something for someone else.

Yeah. So, I mean, is this really about the sort of the. Is the genesis of this kind of that beginning, that first impression thing? Is it about body language? Is it about what we say, how to be a better networker? I mean, you know, or does it really. It probably encompasses all of those things, I assume. Right. And more.

Well, networking is such a popular thing, but actually it's the counterintuitive other. It's how we create a sense of us where people can accomplish more together than they can. So it's how we move, speak, and appear and how the settings in which we meet affect our views of each other as well as the wording online. So there's very specific things. And since that kind of behavior research is so popular, Jason, a lot of it, they extrapolate too much from what they've researched. So you have to be careful that some of the things that we hear that are popular, in fact, aren't true.

Well, give us an example of that.

Well, they invite us to smile and to be very upbeat because it's the American way. And my friend Adam Grant, who wrote Give and Take, said there's a dark side to emotional intelligence. That is, the more we become emotionally intelligent and aware of other people, we can manipulate them better. So what I'm talking about and what made it a passion for me as a former stutterer and a shy person? Or what are the ways that we actually deeply listen and can speak sooner to a sweet spot of shared interest, especially from people that don't act right, like us, because they probably have talents and experiences and approaches that are different than us in a situation. So we have the chance to accomplish something greater together than we would with hanging out with people who are just like us.

Yeah. Okay, good. So, I mean, is one of the thesises of your thinking that are, generally speaking, are our friendship and acquaintance pools less diverse than they should be?

They're getting increasingly less diverse. You're absolutely right. You can read a book called the Big Sort or Going to Extremes or the Filter Bubble. All three are showing in America. That's one of the reasons we get more rigid, reactionary shame people with that brilliant book out about shaming. But there are ways, for example, that are pretty simple. Getting specific sooner as we cite something about somebody else we admire showing warmth before competence instead of the reverse. And people more likely to trust us sidle rather than facing each other, walking because we get more in sync. These are all ways that are just very basic to our humanity where it's easier for us to connect and like each other.

You know, I remember the story about Ronald Reagan being at Camp David and taking a walk when he was trying to negotiate. I can't remember what he was trying to negotiate. Maybe an arms treaty or something. Maybe this, you know, what was it? Salt? Is it way back then? I don't remember, but.

He sort of broke the pattern and got up and just took a walk with. Who was it Gorbachev maybe?

You know, I remember that story. So familiar, but I can't either. And he also ambles so there's a rolling gait that he had that.

Has a warmth to it. Had a warmth to it.

Tell us about that a little bit more. That's interesting.

Well, you know, some people, they go fast to go slow. I say they speak sharply. They have staccato rhythms in their voice and the way they gesture. And you know, Gypsy Rose Lee was a famous stripper once and she said something like, anything worth doing well is worth doing slowly and lower. Slower and fewer motions actually make us look more caring.

So I think there's ways that we can connect with people where they feel comfortable and they get in sync. The more vital signs are in sync, the more we tend to like each other.

I would agree. And you know, certainly not to make this about Reagan, but one of, I think his very powerful things was when, you know, an opponent would attack him or just attack him in any way, he would say, oh, there you go again.

What a great way to defuse them. You know, it's like such an old chummy, friendly, you know, like patting him on the back. Oh, there you go again.

I like that. And if you're talking about a gradation of what works, it is slightly demeaning, but it makes that other person back off. Relatedly, what I really admire is creating a bigger pie when someone's attacking you. There's a man named Danny Al from Latin America, dark skinned soccer player in Barcelona. And part of the audience was racist. While they're playing, they were saying racist things about him. And one of them, in fact threw a banana down into the stadium. And he walked up to it, casually picked it up, took a bite, threw it aside, and just with great warmth continued playing. And people Started clapping and it made news and it went viral online and they actually arrested the person who did the banana throwing. So there's ways that you can show other people grace under pressure. And it's a sudden visceral insight rather than reacting and being a jerk too because someone else is being one.

There's a, a Buddhist saying where the example is, well, go something like this, a quote that says, you know, if, if, if I give you a gift and you refuse to accept it, to whom does the gift belong? And that's really part of this. When someone attacks you, you don't have to accept the attack. You know, so it, it still belongs to the other party. Right? Isn't that.

Yeah, that's correct. I like that. I just wrote that down. Thank you. Yes. And it also means we have to have a sense of ourself and be grounded. I think the more we know our hot buttons because we all have two to three different things that really bug us. And if we're more clear about the concrete behavior, not just how we feel, then we can see it coming further along like defensive driving and we can plan for what we want to do so we don't let somebody else determine our behavior.

Yeah, that's very true. That's a very good point. We. Well, mutuality matters, you know, how you can create opportunity, adventure and friendship with others. What other tips do you want to share about this? It's a very interesting topic.

Well, in the wake of more and more people wanting attention because they're living and working alone and because in a tech enabled world, bad and good can hit faster and for more places, that's my view. From drugs to money laundering to drones, I think that those people that understand what their top passion and their top talent is and they also know their hot buttons. The flip side, they can put more top of mind how to find complementary partners to be on the lookout for them. And one of the most noble things we can do, I think is develop relationships where they're trusted. So it's not just giving all the time, which is controversial to say, but looking for ways that there's give and take over time, not quid pro quo, but an ebb and flow. So if you've cultivated those diverse relationships and you've been there for them and you've demonstrated that as they have with you, when you see a problem or an opportunity, you're more likely to be able to recruit the right team and solve it or seize it faster and better than other people. So that kind of connective leader is the one that is going to have the most clout, whether they're a soloist in their own work or the midway through a company or the head of a country. It's that capacity to have diverse relationships where you may heartily disagree on one thing, but you agree on something else. Now, three unlikely, unexpected allies stand together at a scene with an object and they're very specific and say, we actually don't get along in some ways, but we do believe in this and here's why, and we hope you join us. I think that's the future scenario where it has interestingness and it pulls people in with credibility.

Yeah, it sure does. It's very interesting. So, you know, when people disagree fervently on a topic, you know, whether it be world leaders and their, you know, government leaders and they disagree, or just people in business or maybe they've had a conflict over something that's been rather severe. Do you have any tips on how to bridge that gap? I mean, what was it, Abraham Lincoln that said, keep your friends close and your enemies closer? That's a great, great point, isn't it?

Yes. And that wonderful book about the team that he formed and Obama was hopefully trying to form where there'd be different minds. It's like that notion, if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. Well, that's not true. Everybody's smarter at something. But I think the best way to do it is to genuinely praise somebody for something that you really admire about them. But also, starting with the first meeting, try to look for the thing you can most admire about them and keep it top of mind because there will always be something that irritates them down the line.

But I also believe if you're able to say civilly, we may disagree about several things such as this and this. Does it seem like we have different views? See, that's the language you use as well, say. But I also notice that you seem to really feel strongly about such and such. And I feel the same way.

But the second part is to have that friendship, the best kinds of friendships that are healthy and valuable. For example, if you and I found that we had some interest in common, which we actually do, regarding getting messages out, such as you're doing so well with your programs, is for, you might say, kari, I thought you'd be interested in blah, blah, blah, and you sent it to me, I said, well, actually, that's not too helpful for this reason. And rather than you taking it personally that I'm insulting you we're helping each other iteratively become better at what we do need and want. And also, if you introduce people to each other, people forever saying, hey, you two ought to meet. You're both great people, I think it's much more thoughtful to say you two seem to share an interest in blah, blah, you may want to explore it. So that way we become valuable with and for other people because we get specific sooner. And I believe more than anything, getting specific sooner makes you more credible, gains clarity, and it's more memorable getting specific sooner.

So what does that mean, getting to the point or of the conversation or the meeting or what do you mean by that?

Well, I'm a journalist, so great stories open with some detail or a story or example, and then give the background or the lesson or the trend.

Right.

People do the reverse. We talk about generalizations. You know, ads used to say with, you know, the bank or the hospital, whatever, we keep. We put our customers first. But instead they said, we're now going to be opening these hours, or we're now giving enhanced service for you to be able to more easily check on blah, blah, blah, because we care about serving you better. The more you say that detail first, you get people's attention and they have a context in which to listen. I have a client, for example, who stood in front of a group of analysts and had very little time. And he rolled up his shirt sleeve and he pointed at the patch because he was the head of a biotech firm. And he said, when this patch goes on the market, you'll feel the effects out your body faster than a Porsche can go from zero to 90. So he was a billboard for his message. Literally on stage, he did what I called a compared to what? And he gave a specific detail. And his wasn't the biggest story at the conference, but it was the one that was most covered.

Yeah, I like that. Compared to what? Because that gives people something that everybody can understand. I mean, had he got up there and said, this will take effect within one day of using the patch, that's not a Porsche going from zero to 90. Right, right.

And he was making a reference to something, because this was about eight years ago, that was aspirational. It was something that people in that audience identified with. Yeah, but we can all look for it. You see, it means it's not a matter of money. It's a matter of sidelong glancing at your world and thinking, what product do I want to compare this to? Or what situation?

And then you see examples all around you that you can Use to make your own idea or message or product stand out.

You know, I bet a lot of your teachings really had to be applied and were learned in your various reporting jobs over the years. I mean you got to get people to open up as a report reporter. A lot of times they just don't want to open up. Expect, you know, I assume many reporters are very confrontational and people just put up the walls and you know, if they give it, you know, they either say no comment or they give the pat answer that you know is never going to land you a good story. How do you get people to open up like that? I mean you, you, you shared a couple of those tips, but are there any more?

That's, that's very astute where you started. Because yes, I think people see some journalists as confrontive and they might be, but I don't think that works. I mean you look about the Jenner interview, Bruce Jenner, and where she got a great story but she pulled it out of him and he felt safer he she to say it. When I was a journalist, most of the people were guys and older me and I started out and the ones that had a genial face in their pose and listened closely and asked a question because the opposite is also true. People will talk at us and generalizations or things that do not that are. What do you call it? One thing contradicts another and you don't want to make them look bad. You want the real story. So one of the things I suggest is asking a question, listen closely and this is in any conversation, ask a follow up question. What's an example of that? Because then you get the specifics. But even better. And there are two men I just admire deeply that were both killed in war zones this last three years. But what they do is they'd ask a question and someone would respond and they maintain that genial look at them and just wait because then someone comes, they say the next thing in their mind they're talking it out loud to themselves and the fuller, richer story often pours out. I truly believe more people want to be heard and understood and where don't have as many connective conversations anymore. So just saying. Well, when you pointed this out it occurred to me. Could you tell me more about that? You don't revert it back to yourself. You prove you've heard and there's a thread to a conversation.

That's a great point. You know, if, I mean imagine the walls that would come down in the world. Imagine the enemies who would be able to Work together at least, if not become friends. If all you need to do for someone is make them feel understood. Right. Isn't that just the core of everything?

I think the way you put it was wonderful about the Walls of Fall. I absolutely believe it. I think people want to be understood and then they don't. Many people don't mind a disagreement. They just want to be understood and have a conversation about something that matters to them rather than just saying, how are you? And it's wonderful to look out for people who are like that, who bring out others better sides, because there's a way they can do it. I mean, I remember early in Clinton, Bill Clinton would show such attention to people that I recovered a man who just got very vociferous about how he hated Clinton. And then I saw Clinton walk over to him at this event and the man was getting warm and gesturing and smiling. So there's something about giving some of your whole hearted attention.

That'S captivating. Nelson Mandela truly did that. I'm honored that I got to interview him once. He'd walk into a room and there were glittering celebrities and sports heroes and all that. And they. He walked in and they. It's like the air changed. It brought out a better part of them. I mean, I get teary when I'm saying this, but it just. They warmed up to him and they all looked like even more decent, kind people. I think that's the power of what you were talking about.

Very interesting. Very interesting. You know, I did not see the Bruce Jenner interview because I don't. I don't have TV anymore. But, you know, that was an incredibly highly rated. I read about it. Of course, almost 17 million people tuned in. That was one of the biggest rated segments in I think, maybe forever on that show. How did Jenner and Sawyer do in their respective roles? I'm kind of curious to get your take on that. I haven't talked about that on the show yet.

I believe it's because she was very smart as an interviewer. It helped her immensely because she thought, I want to bring out something unexpected because there's a lot of people that have no idea about transgender, including me. I know a bit because in the Bay Area, it's topic, but she wanted to really get to the truth of what he was doing and why and not just about his car accident or he did something horrific. And so when she listened and asked follow up questions, he. She opened up and said, this is what it means for me and other people. So it was a unique story. And any journalist wants a unique story that has dimensions to it that no one else has gotten or would get. It also means that more people will want to have an interview with her because they want to get to the core of something. Because she did press, she wasn't just trying to make it a puff piece. So it was her style of warmth and her probing and her clarity that she wanted to get to the core of the stages of why he chose to do that.

And then there's the role of the guest, the interviewee. How did Bruce Jenner do?

You know, I'm still processing that in my mind. I think he must have been coached and prompted because there's a lot of things that he's done that are very controversial recently. And not that I think you mean the car accident. Yes, and the response to the car accident that he had. So.

I think he maintained a very human compassion thing, making it a category not just of one him, but of the people he was representing in similar situations. And it's always wise to attach yourself to a wide group and build your constituency, but also to refer to their traits, even if you haven't had some of them. I'm trying to, I'm saying this in a way. I know it's maybe controversial to some, but that. To make a larger lesson.

Yeah, yeah. Very interesting. I read the letter that his ex wife wrote. It's in Huffington Post, by the way, and it's like a 4, 300 word essay. It's quite moving. That was really, really interesting to read all of that and, you know, just hear about their lives together and so forth and, you know, her point of view on it. Very, very interesting.

Can I say something about that?

Sure, yeah. But before you do, I just wanted to mention, you know, when you mentioned, you know, Jenner was coached. Well, I mean, of course, any, any celebrity guest is going to have some media training, right? I mean.

No, a lot of them don't.

Well, hopefully they do.

Shouldn't they think you're a good actor? You may think it translates to other skills.

Right. Okay, well, feel free to expand on that. But you wanted to say something about his ex wife's letter, too.

I think a lot of us think that if we're really good at something that makes us smart at other things where we don't yet have experience.

I think we don't get deeply reflective and say, what do I most want to accomplish in this opportunity? But what I was going to say is he was lucky to have her do that. But most of all, if I was to say something for your huge audience. It's so captivating and credibility boosting when you cite other people as positive examples of the stands or the topics that matter to you. And there's a woman named Dori Clark who's become a friend years ago who wrote a book called Standout. There's so many books about how you stand out and look important. But the amazing thing she's done for three years is write very good columns where it's always citing two to five other people as specific incidents and examples of the point she's making. So of course she has a strong web of connection with people because she cited their smartness. And that's what her book does. And that's actually rather rare because I actually get a gob of books because people want me to cover their story. But when you cite something specific that someone else has done and then a second person, a third person has never been cited together, you're showing you become a category of one. Joe Calloway wrote a book that way where you're the only person that comes up with a fresh idea that's bolstered credibly by what other people have already proven to be true. And I think that's a huge path forward for the people that might be listening here, who are the stakeholders who don't yet know you and who you do know, who have some facet of your core idea or your product or whatever, and inciting them, you pull them closer rather than pushing at them to support you. It's very becoming.

Yeah, it really is. So just tying that back into the Jenner interview, since that's what we were talking about. You know, it's certainly not just about him or her. You know, that represents a very large audience, obviously, or a fairly large audience. Did he do that successfully? Did he make it not just about him? You know, I don't know which pronoun.

I should use, but I only saw half of it, so I don't fully know because I was called away to a family emergency. But he certainly hit a thread, as you said earlier, from diverse people, from what we've seen in social media. I wish I'd seen the whole thing, and I could be more accurate in my observations.

Are there any questions that I didn't ask you or anything that you'd just like to say?

I guess I'd say this to have a meaningful, accomplished life. The best thing is to try to be as grounded as you can. Know that we don't always know why people do what they do, and we make assumptions a lot. It's a book called Mind Wise and Heidi Halverson wrote a book that says they don't understand you and what you can do about it.

Yeah, I had her on the show before.

Good, good. Well, then, just saying this, to be open to finding the best side in someone else and bringing it out by truly listening.

And by being concrete about what you heard and suggesting that sweet spot to be redundant. That's what I'm hoping for, that there's more of us.

That want to have that adventure and want to have a real experience, not just a passive one watching something and want to meet in person face to face. That and to put down the cell phone or you get a screen face because you look up and look sort of dour. I think that humanity and warmth and we don't look down. We actually look at people who pass. We don't have to be grinning fools, but we can show warmth in our life. And because behavior is contagious.

It certainly is. And it reminds me, and I know you did mention about smiling, but I remember in high school, my Spanish teacher had this great little thing up and people can search it on the Internet. I'm sure it's there. But, you know, a smile costs nothing but gives much. It enriches those who receive without making poorer. Those who give just such excellent advice. We all, especially yours truly, need to remember that. So, good stuff.

Oh, I got sugars. Thank you. Oh, I like.

Fantastic. Just look it up. I don't want to say Google it, because that's overused. I want to say just search it. Okay. Use Bing.

You clearly have a passion for what you're doing, and I think it must be helpful in the work that you do here because. And you had such apt insights. I like that. So you were doing a connective conversation. You were an example of what I've been talking about. I made it refreshing for me.

Well, thank you. Thank you very much. Give out your website or a Twitter feed or anything else you'd like people to know where they can find you. And you've got some excellent blog articles, by the way. I really enjoy those.

Oh, thank you. It's sayitbetter.com and there you can see the Forbes and HuffPo sites from there. Yes. And I'd be honored to get people's reactions to the ideas they have, whether they disagree especially or what part is most resonated with them.

Sayitbetter.com and then, of course, books on Amazon with excellent reviews. I mean, I love it when I see books with a lot of reviews, you know. So 95 reviews and five stars. So head over to Amazon, you can get it on Kindle or audio as well. So good stuff. Kari, thank you so much for joining us. And you know not to forget your TED speech with over well with almost 1.5 million views. Really excellent. I enjoyed that as well. So please check that out listeners. And thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you.

Jason.

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