2110: Speed of Trust- Transforming Transactions into Relationships | Stephen M.R. Covey

Welcome to the show. This is Jason Hartman, your host. And every 10th episode we do something kind of special, kind of different. What we do is we go off topic. So regardless of which show it is on the Hartman Media Network, whether it be one of the financial shows, economics, real estate, investing, travel, longevity, all of the other topics that we have, every 10th episode we go off topic and we explore something of general interest, something of general life, success, value. And so many of our listeners around the world in 164 countries have absolutely loved our 10th episode shows. So that's what we're going to do today and let's go ahead and get to our guest with a special 10th episode show. And of course, on the next episode we'll, we'll be back to our regular programming. Here we go.

This show is produced by the Hartman Media Company. For more information and links to all our great podcasts, visit hartmanmedia.com.

Number one.

I love your show. I love, you know, the way that you go deep into business and then go, you know, on some of these other tangents of experiences that as business.

People we all have.

So thank you for putting out such.

Good content because it's impactful.

It is really impactful.

Welcome to the Creating wealth show with Jason Hartman. You're about to learn a new slant on investing, some exciting techniques and fresh new approaches to the world's most historically proven asset class that will enable you to create more wealth and freedom than you ever thought possible. Jason is a genuine, self made multimillionaire who's actually been there and done it. He he's a successful investor, lender, developer and entrepreneur who's owned properties in 11 states, had hundreds of tenants and been involved in thousands of real estate transactions. This program will help you follow in Jason's footsteps on the road to your financial Independence Day. You really can do it. And now here's your host, Jason Hartman with the complete solution for real estate investors.

Welcome to episode 2110. 2110. And it is with my pleasure we will have Stephen Mr. Covey with us today. He is the son of the late Dr. Stephen Covey, one of my huge influences. I used to teach his work the 7 Habits of Highly Effective People. First things first, principle centered leadership, really great content, and his son is carrying on his legacy. So he will be here with us today and we've got a great 10th episode interview coming up for you on just generally how to be more effective at life. And we're going to talk about his book, the Speed of Trust. That is a New York Times Bestselling book with over 3,000 reviews on Amazon, it is the one thing that changes everything. And his newer book, trust and Inspire, really good stuff for you today. So we will get to that in just a moment. But since we are on the topic of trust, which is so incredibly important, folks, why are we trusting these fake prophets of doom, these gurus out there that are just basically lying for clickbait? It is absolutely unbelievable. You know, it's. It's like a funny thing in, in the world. If someone is running a scam, a Ponzi scheme, for example, a Bernie Madoff style scheme, but there's a lot of smaller ones in real estate. People that are raising money for syndications and funds, and they're Ponzi schemes, right? They get exposed later, but it usually takes years. Usually everybody thinks they're so great and they're such heroes for a while, and then one day they get exposed. I mean, Bernie Madoff, he pulled off his scheme for decades, as you know, to the tune of what, $55 billion. It's absolutely incredible. But we've got all of these folks out there who you shouldn't trust, right? This episode is about trust. The one thing that changes everything. I was watching some videos over the weekend. None other than Nick Giarelli, Reventure Consulting, who we have invited on the show several times. He did say he was going to do the interview a couple of times and then he never did. Somehow the interview never, ever happens, right? But I looked up some other videos about his videos. They really expose the lies of these sensationalized doom and gloomers. It's incredible. They're selling you stuff and how are you paying them? You think it's free? You think this advice is free? No, it's not free. You're paying with your time, you're paying with your mindset, and you're paying by giving them revenue because they get paid on the platforms based on their number of views. And these people have a lot of views. They get big audiences with this. Just false doom and gloom. I mean, look at some of these thumbnails, right? These aren't his thumbnails. These are his critics, right? Crooked truth, fake data. And I watched the video and I, I agree. The guy is right. And the one thing I'll say about a lot of these folks, and I'm not just picking on this guy in particular, but a lot of them out there with their clickbait nonsense bs, it's what they leave out that is really more important than what they address, right? And then they make these big like leaps in logic. Leaps in logic. That's a really critical concept to understand the leaps. You know, it's like, okay, there's my premise. Then automatically it means this. And sometimes it's just a false premise, but other times it's a false conclusion, right? So you really got to watch out for this stuff. I love this one because here he's talking about the 2022 real estate crash. Well, let me see here folks. It's a couple of years later now and clearly the complete opposite happened. But what I was getting at before is, you know, if someone is running a scam, if they are selling fake investments or giving bad investment advice in our legal system, people can sue them, they can take them to for damages. But why isn't it that people take these folks to court for the cost of opportunity that they missed? That can be the most expensive thing of all, right? Say for example, this guy was raising money for a fund or a syndication and you invested in it and it turned out to be a scam and you invested $50,000 and you lost your 50,000. Or maybe you lost 30,000 of your 50,000, right? Okay, well, that's how much you lost. But what if he told you not to invest? What if he was manipulating the data and making leaps in logic or just outright lying or using fake data to convince you that the market is going to crash and therefore you didn't invest and you missed out on 45 appreciation, which leveraged is, you know, I mean, you do that at a 5 to 1 leverage ratio. Just multiply that, that's like 250 return almost, right? And then the cash flow you would have had, the tax benefits, you would have had, the inflation induced debt destruction you would have had. But you missed, you missed the opportunity. Why aren't people suing these people for this? This is the bigger cost than investing in a bad investment, right? And that's why also in life, the winnings, the spoils go to those who do things and gain the power and the momentum of simply taking action. There is huge wisdom in action, right? Definitely. That power of that momentum usually helps you win when sitting on the sidelines. You never win, Tom, because life and investing, definitely not a spectator sport, okay? It is a sport where you have to participate in order to win. And we know that the market timers throughout history, in every asset class under the sun typically fail, fail, fail. They are wrong, wrong, wrong. Because nobody can predict the market perfectly. But even if you do a pretty good job of predicting the market just the basic momentum oriented wisdom of averaging into the market wins the day. And there are so many studies on this. I mean we've covered them before in prior episodes. Just no time to go into that today. But look, if you'd like to make sure you are not a spectator and you are not sitting on the sidelines and you're not missing out and you don't have FOMO fear of missing out, right. Join us for our Empowered Investor cruise coming up. The early bird ends in just three days. So get your tickets, go ahead and register for that now. We made it easy for you. We put this up that you see if you're watching on video. We put this up on the front page of Jason hartman.com you can just click through on the link on the very front page@jason hartman.com and we are constantly gathering some fantastic new faculty for the cruise. As you know, Robert Helms from the real estate guys is going to be joining us. So we will be having different tables at dinners every night where you can sit with the different speakers. Years ago when I went on a Forbes investor cruise, this is exactly how they did it. They had these speaker hosted dinners and every night the guest would rotate around but the speaker would be at the same table and different people could have dinner with each speaker and each faculty member each different night. So we've got Robert Helms. We just got Scott Poirier to join us. He is the fire your manager's instructor who's been teaching me and our other students how to do lease options, how to do rent to own programs. So he will be there there so you can learn from him, hang out with him. Kerry Lutz, who is the founder of the Financial Survival Network. You know, Carrie's been on the show many times over the years and he's got some great content as well. Much more broad thinking than just real estate. He of course talks about the stock market, precious metals, bonds, all sorts of other investments besides real estate, besides income property. So I think you'll enjoy that as well. And he will probably be doing a talk, we haven't decided yet on the history of bubbles, which he did for us back at our Hawaii event when we held profits in paradise in Hawaii many years ago. Really great talk, really well received, fascinating topic and it just makes you realize how throughout history human nature just doesn't change much when it comes to money and investing. So go to Jason hartman.com, get registered for the cruise right away. It's going to be a great time. Five nights, six days on beautiful celebrity Apex brand new ship. It's going to be absolutely gorgeous. So that's coming up fast. Go to Jason Hartman.com and get your tickets for that. And without further ado, let's get to Stephen M r. Covey and talk about the speed of trust and how to trust and inspire. Just such a foundational, critically important topic to everything we do in life.

It is my pleasure to welcome Stephen Mr. Covey to the show. He is one of the Covey legacy people, so it's great to have him. And he is the author of the Speed of Trust, an excellent book that I had the pleasure of getting through a couple of years ago and his newer book called Trust and Inspire. And Steven, welcome. It's great to have you. How are you?

Hey, I'm doing great, Jason. I'm really excited to be on the show.

Yeah, we're glad to have you. Are you coming to us from Salt Lake City? I'm guessing you guys?

Yeah, I live close to the Sundance ski resort in the Rocky. Rocky Mountains in Utah and I'm just 10 minutes from skiing. So.

Good stuff, good stuff.

Which is really exciting.

As I mentioned to you off air before we started, I've been studying your father's work for decades, quite literally. I used to train on his work on the seven habits of highly effective people and principle centered leadership and just such a great body of work. And you have continued that legacy, really with a focus on the importance of trust. And I think that is a very, very excellent focus. You know, most people give lip service to that word, trust. You know, of course it's important to build trust. People have to trust you for exchange of value and commerce can happen usually. What is trust? Maybe there's a better definition than what most of us think it is. Right?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, here's the maybe this most simple definition, trust is confidence versus say suspicion. Distrust is suspicion. Like I don't know if I can trust this person, maybe because of a lack of integrity or maybe they're self serving or I don't know if I can trust this person because they don't deliver, they don't do what they're going to do. So that's suspicion. By contrast, trust is confidence. And the confidence comes because I trust both their character and their competence.

Yep.

And both halves are vital. If you have one elect the other, you won't sustain the trust. Now if someone could be honest and, and well meaning but if they lack competence, they can't deliver, can't perform, can't get the job done, I won't Trust them. Someone could get the job done. They, they perform. But if they're running everybody over in the process or being dishonest and self serving, I'm not going to trust them. You got to have both character and competence. That gives you the confidence to move forward. And so that's the most simple definition is confidence versus suspicion.

Yeah, that's a very good way to put it. I love that. And developing trust, is that a tall order or is it easy? Let's look into some of the elements of why someone might trust you. Competence and confidence, those are the two main components, but there's much more to it, right?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So building trust with people, it can't happen fast. It also can take time. It depends on the context of the situation. But the idea behind it is that you can behave your way into trust with people, just like you can behave your way out of it. I mean, you can lose trust a lot faster than you can build it, because you can lose it overnight, you can lose it in a moment. If, you know, you break a commitment and someone might not trust you, it takes you longer to build it. But if you're willing to build it through your behavior by what you do and how you do it, you know, you make and keep commitments, you listen first, which shows respect for people. You talk truthfully, you're always telling the truth versus spinning or twisting or worse, lying. Of course you're open, you're transparent. I call that create transparency. And because that tends to build trust, if you make a mistake, you right the wrong. You know, writing wrongs when you make a mistake builds trust. You speak about people as if they were present. I call that show loyalty versus kind of sweet talking people to their face and badmouthing behind their back. And so it's really practical, the idea that trust is a learnable skill. You can build it intentionally with people by demonstrating your credibility. And that's your character and your competence, like we talked about. But also behaving in ways that build trust. You know, clarifying expectations, practicing accountability. And I'll give you one of the big behaviors that really builds trust fast with people is to give trust, to extend it, give it. Because it's interesting, Jason, it's actually possible to have two trustworthy people working together on a deal or on a project. They're both trustworthy, and yet there might be no trust between them, even though they're both trustworthy, if neither person is willing to extend trust to the other.

So one can be trustworthy but not trusting.

Exactly, exactly. And you Got to have both. To really create trust. Yes, you have to be trustworthy, and that's your character and your competence. But again, you could have trustworthy people working together and no trust between them if they're not also trusting, being willing to give that trust. Now you got to be smart about it. I'm not saying blindly trust everyone and everyone, anyone, you know, that's not smart. But find the way to appropriately, in a relationship or on a team, on a deal, to extend trust to people. Because when you give it, people receive it and they return it.

Yeah.

When you withhold it, they tend to withhold it too.

Yeah, right. When your guard is up, the other person's going to put their guard up too. They're just going to sense that. Right. Are there any suggestions or examples of how we can give trust without being a doormat, without being taken advantage of? You know, certainly there are people that just blindly give trust over and over and sort of become these kind of victims of life and others that have their own motivations. Of course there's a balance, but how do we give it?

Yeah, it's what I call a smart trust versus, say, a blind trust. Blind trust is just indiscriminate. I trust anyone, you know, that's being the doormat. You're going to get burned because not everyone can be trusted. Smart trust is saying, I'm going to use good judgment and assess the situation, the risk, the credibility of the people involved. But the idea is that I would like to be able to trust because when we can trust each other, we can do so much more together and we can move faster, less cost, we're more creative, more innovative, come up with all kinds of possibilities. That is hard to do when there's distrust and people don't trust each other. So you'd like to trust. You just want to be smart about it. So here's the key thing I've learned. Anytime you extend trust to another, make sure that you've always. You build an agreement together around the trust being given, where you clarify expectations and you agree to a process of account of accountability. So if I. Let's say I'm running my business and I've got a. I'm going to ask someone to head up a project or head up an account. And I'm going to say, okay, I trust you to take on this team, to lead this team, and in that process of extending the trust together, you build you clarify expectations around the kind of results and outcomes that you're trying to. To get, and then around the Resources available to that person to, to be able to get those outcomes and the guidelines, you know, watch outs or parameters. So you kind of, I call that clarify expectations around the results. But then you also design and agree to a process of accountability against those expectations. Then that way they can feel completely empowered that hey, my, my boss or my leader, my friend trusts me completely. But then you can feel like hey, I'm not just trusting willy nilly. There's expectations, there's accountability around this trust being given and they can hold themselves accountable against the agreement we built together. If you build the agreement with people, they tend to perform better, you know, against the agreement. The research shows about three times better when they're trusted and empowered. And you don't lose control because the control just shift from you having to hover over and micromanage them to you had built an agreement that has all the components in that you're worried about and concerned about. And then they feel empowered you've not lost control, they perform better. And also you increase the trust because when you trust them, they tend to trust you back. So that's the idea is always extend smart trust and do it by building an agreement together with expectations and accountability.

You know, as you're talking you're reminding me of that famous statement by Ronald Reagan and you know what I'm going to say in his, in his negotiations with the Soviets on the arms deals, it was trust but verify. Are you saying the same thing really? It sounds like you are, but maybe it's. It's not.

Yeah, yes and no. A little nuanced. The idea of verify is part of smart trust. You're trying to use good judgment. You know, he didn't just say hey, trust regardless. No, you're trying to use good judgment and verify is there. What I would say though is the danger of the expression trust but verify, that that works with nuclear armaments.

Right countries.

Because the risk, the risk is so.

It has a tone of suspicion.

Of course, tone of suspicion. And what I find is that for many people trust but verify is all verify, verify, verify. They never really trust it. And so some people can use it almost as a counterfeit behavior to really never trust in anyone they hate. And they say hey, trust but verify, you know, but all they did was verify. They never really trusted. But the idea of verify makes some sense. So I like the idea of even saying this trust and verify. But the, you know, the word but tends to negate everything in front of it.

Right.

So but you know, but no, you're using good judgment and you're kind of assessing the situation. But at the same time, Jason, we've got to be willing to extend some trust and not always have to just say, you know, what the verification means. I'm going to hover over you. Then that's not. That's not really trusting them. Build an agreement around the trust being given. Yeah, empower them. Let them live up to it. If they don't, then the agreement should say, hey, if you don't deliver on these results, you're either going to have to improve or we have to give the job to somebody else type of thing. So you can be tough with this, but you also need to lead out by giving trust, because people respond to being trusted, and they rise to the occasion. They perform better. It brings out the best in people.

Right? I agree. Most definitely. You know, speaking of nuclear arms deals and sort of the world of big deals, you know, your. Your training and your clients center around Fortune 1000 companies. Okay. People that are doing big deals. Okay. That impact tens of thousands of people at minimum, probably much more than that. How does it work in corporate boardrooms or maybe between CEOs playing golf or at country clubs? How much of that comes down to what the lawyers are doing and what the contracts say on a big M and a deal, for example. And really, those two key players, the heads of both of those companies, knowing each other, maybe liking each other, maybe not, but trusting each other. Talk to us about the dynamics of that, if you would, because I think that's so foreign to people. You know, maybe just to bring that question out a little more, look at some of the big tech companies, right? The Magnificent Seven, or whatever they're called. Right. It's always been funny to me that these companies are fiercely competitive. They do things literally to sabotage each other. They litigate with each other, they sue each other, and then their products are in each other's app stores, and they have to work together at the same time. I've always been kind of puzzled about how that works. Does the CEO of Google talk to the CEO of Apple? Hey, you're blocking our ads on your browser. And you know, how do these guys work together? Because they do. And they're literally in court against each other at the same time. It's an odd dynamic, to say the least.

Well, it is an odd dynamic. And they somehow find kind of their boundaries and ways of saying, in these areas, we're going to compete, and there might be some other areas where we're going to collaborate and partner. And they almost. They almost Draw lines around where they're going to compete, where they're going to partner. You know, the coopetition idea and, you know, the key thing is that if there's a clarity of expectation around the boundaries, then perhaps it can work. Because people in a sense, are almost compartmentalizing, drawing the boundaries and saying, we're competing here, we're collaborating here. And that can work. If people kind of have clarity around it and they stay, you know, in their lane in those two areas and they try to cross the lane or don't have that clarity, then you might end up with some messiness and it might be messy to begin with. But the best relationships are those in which people can trust each other. That's true not only in business, it's true at home and in the community and, you know, in a family. They're the. They're the best relationships, they're the most enduring, they're the happiest ones. You know, there's a lot of what I call high trust dividends that come from having trust. You know, you move faster when you trust each other. Speed happens when people trust each other. There's less cost because you don't have to take all the steps to check and verify and validate. That often is the thing you have to do when you don't trust each other. But so, you know, there's economic value, greater speed, lower cost, but also it's energizing. It's more fun. It's happier to be in a high trust team, high trust relationship, high trust culture, than a low trust one. So it's both quantitative and qualitative.

Yeah.

And it impacts everything. And I do think that the best relationships, the best deals, are those in which people can trust each other versus when they kind of have to go back to the contract. If you're going back to the contract time and time again, you stay to the problem. You had a problem instead of building a relationship of trust.

Right.

And the contract might be there. And that gives some guidelines. But if there's an issue, if you can go to the person because you trust each other, you can come up with a way to solve it. And that's different in kind really, than always just going back to the contract. Because. Because then, you know, that's a legal relationship, that's transactional.

Right.

That's not a high trust relationship. So I'm not against contracts because a contract can clarify expectations and clarify accountability, but a contract cannot become a replacement for a relationship of trust.

Yeah, yeah, no, I definitely agree. And you know, one Thing I remember that your father wrote a lot about is is win, win or no deal?

Win, win or no deal?

And I have long said that in the real estate world the best deals never close. And what I mean by that is this, is that if the buyer gets too good a deal on buying the property, then the seller is usually going to figure that out before you close on the deal and they're going to find a way not to close the deal. And conversely, if the seller gets the buyer to overpay, the buyer is going to figure that out and the buyer is going to back out of the deal, right? And so the best deals never close. So you've got to structure things so there's, you always somehow let the other person win. You know, of course you want to win as much as you can, right? That's natural. But don't be such a good negotiator that you negotiate yourself out of a deal, right? And I see that happen over and over again with people and I've been guilty of it myself. So maybe address that if you can. And where trust comes into play, I.

Think this is really important. And again, the principle really is win, win or no deal. And in other words, if you both can't win, then maybe it's better not to do a relationship, not to do a deal if it's one sided because in the long run, well, it might on a transactional basis look like, hey, I got a great deal. Well, first of all, it may not close. The best deals don't close, right? The best deals never close because they'll figure it out, they'll stop it. But even in another scenario where maybe they didn't figure it out if it was so one sided, especially if there was any element of not complete openness or transparency on this, that tends to become part of a, you know, you probably won't work with that person again, they'll move on and they might badmouth you and it might hurt your reputation. And whereas if you have a reputation of you're fair, you're honest, yes, you fight for yourself, you want a good deal as good as you can, but you're also care about the interests of the other person, you want them to also do a good deal, that type of relationship is one where people feel like it's fair, I can trust this person, they're not just going to scam me, they're going to, they're going to fight for their best deal, but they also care that I get a good deal too. That matters. So then you're going to get repeat business with such a person and you're going to get referral business from such a person. They'll refer you to others, you know, work with Jason because he's fair, he's good to work with, and they expect that you want to get your win, but the fact that you also care about their win, that's something that really earns their respect of saying, this is someone I'd like to work with. And so you'll get more business, repeat business, referral business. And I'm going to say also reputation business.

Yeah.

Because part of your reputation, that you're a credible person, you're a fair person, you're a good person to do business with and everyone wins in doing, doing that. That's a better reputation than boy, hang on to your wallet, because this guy's going to get everything he can.

Yeah. No one wants to do business with that guy. Yeah.

Our reputation precedes us.

Right.

And to have a reputation of trust, that's a huge advantage.

Yeah. So one of the things that has just amazed and discouraged me over the years, Stephen, is how short sighted people seem to be in the business world. And you know, it seems like that's getting worse. And I started to notice it really getting worse in the 90s. It seems like, you know, I'm dating myself now, but it seems like it just kind of got worse when the world got more connected, oddly. And I have trouble reconciling that now. Maybe it's because there's the old saying, the world is your oyster. Right. Maybe the oyster got more accessible. Right. And so we all realize that we can go and get new customers quite easily from anywhere on the planet with a phone or a computer. Right. And maybe your perception is different. This is just my perception. But it seems like the trust component just keeps degrading more and more, unfortunately. It's a sad commentary, but I don't know, maybe I'm getting too cynical at my old age.

What do you think about that? I mean, let's just go back, right? So before the Internet, and certainly in the old, old days when we lived in small tribes of about 150 people that evolutionary psychologists or anthropologists will tell us about this. Right. Your reputation was like life or death.

Yeah.

If you did not maintain a good reputation and really watch your step, it could be over for you.

Yeah.

Right off the island now. Yeah, off the island. Right. A survivor. But nowadays, you know, you can just go somewhere else and con a whole bunch of new people. Right. Which I don't Know, am I too cynical?

Well, the reality is that you're onto something, that increasingly we're operating in a world of declining trust, where it's going down. And part of the reason is to. Your point is that people are approaching this too transactionally.

Yep.

Almost kind of like, what's the situation? What's in it for me? As opposed to how can, how can I best serve and how can I create a win win, a mutual benefit deal? And part of that is that I'm so connected. I got these choices and options. I can just go from here to here to here.

Too many choices of too many choices.

It's a paradox. We got so many choices and options. It moves us more towards transactions. And transactions tend to not require trust. And so we tend to look at this in isolation. And you add that up and there's a lot of that going on. And that tends to also then impact trust overall in society. And the danger of a low trust world is that it's contagious. Distrust breeds more distrust. People become more careful, cautious, guarded. People respond back more careful, cautious, guarded, because none of us want to get burned. And we can find ourselves perpetuating that vicious downward cycle.

And you know what happens in that downward cycle, and I think we're witnessing it, frankly, we're living it, is that it becomes so cumbersome to get anything done because there's so little trust. And everything has got security layers and contracts and addendums. And when I got into real estate at age 19, my first year of college, the contract to buy a property was a page long. Now it's, it's just ungodly. It's, it's incredible how complex everything has been. And you know, that is a bureaucracy where we're, we're kind of just being crushed under our own weight of lack of trust.

It is, it is that all of those, those are reactions to a lack of trust, to a loss of trust. You know, we have the housing crisis, so we end up with Dodd Frank, which is all this, right. All these rules and regulations designed because of lost trust. We're penalizing the many because of the few. And, and we create all these rules, but they're. It's not trust. It's a prophesis for a lack of trust. But it's expensive. Our distrust is very expensive. And it takes a lot of time. It costs a lot of money. There is a high cost to low trust.

Oh yeah.

Especially because of the common levers to compensate for it, which is more rules, more regulations, more laws, and you know, it's understandable why we do that, but we never really looked at the cost of this.

Yeah.

And it's costly. And it's also exhausting.

No, it's exhausting. It's totally exhausting. Yeah. It's just no fun at all. It's a band aid. It's not a solution. It's simply. You're treating the symptom, not the cause, with all these laws. And, you know, I'm from California and I live in Florida now, but I say my former home state, the Socialist Republic of California. You know, like, Every year there's 900 new laws. Can you imagine keeping up with that? It's impossible. It's just impossible. And you see a state that is quite literally collapsing under its own weight of bureaucracy. You know, let's wrap it up. Any solutions to this you want to offer and any other final tips on how to build more trust with people in our relationships, business, family, whatever.

Yeah, I would say this, and this is part of what I wrote about in this new book, Trust and Inspire, is that leaders go first. Someone needs to go first. Leaders go first. They want more trust. They're the first to demonstrate trust. They're the first to give trust. They want more openness, more transparency. They're the first to show openness and transparency. They want more respect, they're the first to show respect and so forth. You know, you want more empathy and understanding, be the first to be empathic, to seek understanding. Someone needs to go first. Leaders go first. And so what we need, Jason, in an environment of kind of declining trust and where you see a lot of people being transactional, what's in it for me? And just trying to optimize them only and not necessarily thinking mutual benefit, when. When what we need is models and examples. The other direction of saying that even in today's world, you can do business the right way and you can do it and build a reputation, build a brand that precedes you. You can do it and have relationships that are enduring and that are powerful and where you get, you know, referral business and reputation business because of who you are. You know, the Warren Buffett type of thing that precedes you, goes in front of you, it's so strong, and you earn that reputation. We need models and models that can become mentors to say, even in a low trust world, there's a better way to lead, better way to run a business, better way to be a creator of value, you know, in deals, in real estate and whatever it might be. And that gives hope and confidence for people that, you know, you don't have to just go with what's happening here. You can counteract it. Just like distrust is contagious, I think trust also is contagious. And when people see and experience trust and confidence, it helps create more trust and confidence. I want to be like that. That's a better way to do it. I like doing deals with this person and they're fair and I want to do more deals with this person. And we need more models, we need more mentors. And rather than wait on society to change or, you know, people that get it, I'm not waiting on anyone. It's. I'm going to lead out. I'm going to go first. I'm going to model the behavior I would like to see. I'm going to model both the trustworthiness and the trusting and I'll find a way to do it. Even if it's just me and my relationships in my home or on my team or in my business, I'm going to go first. Even if others around me are not, I'm going to give them a model of what's possible. I think people are longing for that. I think they respond to that and we can be that kind of model for others.

Yeah, that's very true and very inspirational. Stephen, Give out your website. Of course the books are available in all the usual places and they're fantastic. But what, what resource or website do you want to share?

Yeah, yeah. Why don't you go to trustandinspire.com trustand a n d inspire.com and there you can. You'll see a variety of resources, tools, the books and it also accesses the speed of trust book there too. So that can be very helpful for people and what I would say and I love how this is a 10th episode because it's of general interest. Trust affects everyone. This is both economic because it does affect affect, you know, the speed and the cost of everything. And high trust is a performance multiplier of about 3x3 times. Makes you better. But it's also such a great energizer.

Oh yeah.

And it creates energy, creates joy. Well being and is a better relationship is a better way to live. So that's the general interest. The episode 10 idea of this, this is broadly speaking a better way to have relationships and you know, whether they're personal or professional and it's something we can get really good at. So I Think Trust and Inspire.com will give you some insights and some ideas and I think that people will resonate with the book because they'll see themselves in it and give them a vision of what's possible, what they can do to generate that kind of trust and get the dividends that flow from it.

Absolutely great message. Stephen M. Arcovy, thank you so much for joining us and keep up the great work.

Thanks for that, Jason. Great to be with you and everyone.

Thank you so much for listening. Please be sure to subscribe so that you don't miss any episodes. Be sure to check out the show's specific website and our general website, hartmanmedia.com for appropriate disclaimers and terms of service. Remember that guest opinions are their own, and if you require specific legal or tax advice or advice in any other specialized area, please consult an appropriate professional and we also very much appreciate you reviewing the show. Please go to itunes or Stitcher Radio or whatever platform you're using and write a review for the show. We would very much appreciate that and be sure to make it official and subscribe so you do not miss any episodes. We look forward to seeing you on the next episode.